IDM Mailing Archive

anybody on waffles? just got an invite, looking for friends or any advice you'd have for a novice. first private tracker i've had the opportunity to join sam` 808cat

If it's anything like what.cd, just make sure to be picky in your selections and seed generously. No need to fill requests or upload unless you're going overboard with your "purchases". If this ends up turning into one of those rehashed discussions on the merits and moral qualms associated with pirating music, then here are my two cents: I wouldn't know 2/3's of the artists I currently support monetarily if I hadn't nicked some of their work illegally. Do the ends justify the means? How should I know? Let the ethicists in their ivory towers navigate that quagmire. I just listen to music. On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 7:59 PM, Sam Loschl <watercat1996@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 7 lines anybody on waffles? just got an invite, looking for friends or any advice

> anybody on waffles? just got an invite, looking for friends or any advice > you'd have for a novice. first private tracker i've had the opportunity to > join > > sam` > 808cat >

it's only a quagmire if you don't want to accept piracy is disrespectful. On 10/13/2014 3:22 PM, Connor Higgins wrote:

quoted 22 lines If it's anything like what.cd <> If it's anything like what.cd <http://what.cd>, just make sure to be > picky in your selections and seed generously. No need to fill requests > or upload unless you're going overboard with your "purchases". > > If this ends up turning into one of those rehashed discussions on the > merits and moral qualms associated with pirating music, then here are my > two cents: I wouldn't know 2/3's of the artists I currently support > monetarily if I hadn't nicked some of their work illegally. Do the ends > justify the means? How should I know? Let the ethicists in their ivory > towers navigate that quagmire. I just listen to music. > > On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 7:59 PM, Sam Loschl <watercat1996@gmail.com > <mailto:watercat1996@gmail.com>> wrote: > > anybody on waffles? just got an invite, looking for friends or any > advice you'd have for a novice. first private tracker i've had the > opportunity to join > > sam` > 808cat > >

-- Sham Beam

Still ethically shaky regardless of accepting that it as such. On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 10:04 PM, Sham Beam <sham.beam@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 35 lines it's only a quagmire if you don't want to accept piracy is disrespectful.

> it's only a quagmire if you don't want to accept piracy is disrespectful. > > > > On 10/13/2014 3:22 PM, Connor Higgins wrote: > >> If it's anything like what.cd <http://what.cd>, just make sure to be >> picky in your selections and seed generously. No need to fill requests >> or upload unless you're going overboard with your "purchases". >> >> If this ends up turning into one of those rehashed discussions on the >> merits and moral qualms associated with pirating music, then here are my >> two cents: I wouldn't know 2/3's of the artists I currently support >> monetarily if I hadn't nicked some of their work illegally. Do the ends >> justify the means? How should I know? Let the ethicists in their ivory >> towers navigate that quagmire. I just listen to music. >> >> On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 7:59 PM, Sam Loschl <watercat1996@gmail.com >> <mailto:watercat1996@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> anybody on waffles? just got an invite, looking for friends or any >> advice you'd have for a novice. first private tracker i've had the >> opportunity to join >> >> sam` >> 808cat >> >> >> > > -- > Sham Beam > > >

im bad with ratios and whatnots so i would just go there to find comments on my own releases. that's what i used what.cd for, i think. On 13 October 2014 08:24, Connor Higgins <connor1higgins@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 40 lines Still ethically shaky regardless of accepting that it as such.

> Still ethically shaky regardless of accepting that it as such. > > On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 10:04 PM, Sham Beam <sham.beam@gmail.com> wrote: > >> it's only a quagmire if you don't want to accept piracy is disrespectful. >> >> >> >> On 10/13/2014 3:22 PM, Connor Higgins wrote: >> >>> If it's anything like what.cd <http://what.cd>, just make sure to be >>> picky in your selections and seed generously. No need to fill requests >>> or upload unless you're going overboard with your "purchases". >>> >>> If this ends up turning into one of those rehashed discussions on the >>> merits and moral qualms associated with pirating music, then here are my >>> two cents: I wouldn't know 2/3's of the artists I currently support >>> monetarily if I hadn't nicked some of their work illegally. Do the ends >>> justify the means? How should I know? Let the ethicists in their ivory >>> towers navigate that quagmire. I just listen to music. >>> >>> On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 7:59 PM, Sam Loschl <watercat1996@gmail.com >>> <mailto:watercat1996@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>> anybody on waffles? just got an invite, looking for friends or any >>> advice you'd have for a novice. first private tracker i've had the >>> opportunity to join >>> >>> sam` >>> 808cat >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Sham Beam >> >> >> >

internet music wankers (tm) “but i wouldnt discover things if i didnt copy them at first” is the most 80s argument i know of. hey we have things like youtube and spotify in the 2000s, hope you’ll join us here, connor.. On 13 Oct 2014, at 09:13, Esa Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 43 lines im bad with ratios and whatnots so i would just go there to find comments on my own releas

> im bad with ratios and whatnots so i would just go there to find comments on my own releases. > that's what i used what.cd for, i think. > > > On 13 October 2014 08:24, Connor Higgins <connor1higgins@gmail.com> wrote: > Still ethically shaky regardless of accepting that it as such. > > On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 10:04 PM, Sham Beam <sham.beam@gmail.com> wrote: > it's only a quagmire if you don't want to accept piracy is disrespectful. > > > > On 10/13/2014 3:22 PM, Connor Higgins wrote: > If it's anything like what.cd <http://what.cd>, just make sure to be > picky in your selections and seed generously. No need to fill requests > or upload unless you're going overboard with your "purchases". > > If this ends up turning into one of those rehashed discussions on the > merits and moral qualms associated with pirating music, then here are my > two cents: I wouldn't know 2/3's of the artists I currently support > monetarily if I hadn't nicked some of their work illegally. Do the ends > justify the means? How should I know? Let the ethicists in their ivory > towers navigate that quagmire. I just listen to music. > > On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 7:59 PM, Sam Loschl <watercat1996@gmail.com > <mailto:watercat1996@gmail.com>> wrote: > > anybody on waffles? just got an invite, looking for friends or any > advice you'd have for a novice. first private tracker i've had the > opportunity to join > > sam` > 808cat > > > > > -- > Sham Beam > > > >

to be fair, spotify and youtube weren't around when i joined OiNK. it's only recently that these services have taken off. I hardly use torrents any more, i've purchased all my needs from the past now and i continue to buy new stuff on bandcamp etc. It was the music industry that failed to respond to the internet, so don't blame OiNKers for creating something to force their hand. Rules are simple, if you download, then purchase from the artist directly. Paying the major companies for anything is even worse. the artist gets virtually none of that. Go speak to A Guy Called Gerald and ask him what he thinks of the music industry :) On 20/10/2014, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 58 lines internet music wankers (tm)

> internet music wankers (tm) > > “but i wouldnt discover things if i didnt copy them at first” is the most > 80s argument i know of. hey we have things like youtube and spotify in the > 2000s, hope you’ll join us here, connor.. > > > > > On 13 Oct 2014, at 09:13, Esa Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: > >> im bad with ratios and whatnots so i would just go there to find comments >> on my own releases. >> that's what i used what.cd for, i think. >> >> >> On 13 October 2014 08:24, Connor Higgins <connor1higgins@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> Still ethically shaky regardless of accepting that it as such. >> >> On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 10:04 PM, Sham Beam <sham.beam@gmail.com> wrote: >> it's only a quagmire if you don't want to accept piracy is disrespectful. >> >> >> >> On 10/13/2014 3:22 PM, Connor Higgins wrote: >> If it's anything like what.cd <http://what.cd>, just make sure to be >> picky in your selections and seed generously. No need to fill requests >> or upload unless you're going overboard with your "purchases". >> >> If this ends up turning into one of those rehashed discussions on the >> merits and moral qualms associated with pirating music, then here are my >> two cents: I wouldn't know 2/3's of the artists I currently support >> monetarily if I hadn't nicked some of their work illegally. Do the ends >> justify the means? How should I know? Let the ethicists in their ivory >> towers navigate that quagmire. I just listen to music. >> >> On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 7:59 PM, Sam Loschl <watercat1996@gmail.com >> <mailto:watercat1996@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> anybody on waffles? just got an invite, looking for friends or any >> advice you'd have for a novice. first private tracker i've had the >> opportunity to join >> >> sam` >> 808cat >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Sham Beam >> >> >> >> > >

-- _____________________________________________ Sent from my Sinclair ZX Spectrum 48K _____________________________________________ noise I make: http://www.soundcloud.com/pushkin http://www.last.fm/music/Pushkin noise I like: http://www.last.fm/user/zombiefly sites I run: http://www.ctran.co.uk http://o-fu-online.net -------------------------------

Can You direct us to an interview with A Guy Called Gerald? Sent from some iDevice. Written by Esa.

quoted 84 lines On 20 Oct 2014, at 15:33, Zombiefly <zombiefly@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 20 Oct 2014, at 15:33, Zombiefly <zombiefly@gmail.com> wrote: > > to be fair, spotify and youtube weren't around when i joined OiNK. > it's only recently that these services have taken off. I hardly use > torrents any more, i've purchased all my needs from the past now and i > continue to buy new stuff on bandcamp etc. It was the music industry > that failed to respond to the internet, so don't blame OiNKers for > creating something to force their hand. Rules are simple, if you > download, then purchase from the artist directly. Paying the major > companies for anything is even worse. the artist gets virtually none > of that. Go speak to A Guy Called Gerald and ask him what he thinks of > the music industry :) > > >> On 20/10/2014, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com> wrote: >> internet music wankers (tm) >> >> “but i wouldnt discover things if i didnt copy them at first” is the most >> 80s argument i know of. hey we have things like youtube and spotify in the >> 2000s, hope you’ll join us here, connor.. >> >> >> >> >>> On 13 Oct 2014, at 09:13, Esa Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> im bad with ratios and whatnots so i would just go there to find comments >>> on my own releases. >>> that's what i used what.cd for, i think. >>> >>> >>> On 13 October 2014 08:24, Connor Higgins <connor1higgins@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> Still ethically shaky regardless of accepting that it as such. >>> >>> On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 10:04 PM, Sham Beam <sham.beam@gmail.com> wrote: >>> it's only a quagmire if you don't want to accept piracy is disrespectful. >>> >>> >>> >>> On 10/13/2014 3:22 PM, Connor Higgins wrote: >>> If it's anything like what.cd <http://what.cd>, just make sure to be >>> picky in your selections and seed generously. No need to fill requests >>> or upload unless you're going overboard with your "purchases". >>> >>> If this ends up turning into one of those rehashed discussions on the >>> merits and moral qualms associated with pirating music, then here are my >>> two cents: I wouldn't know 2/3's of the artists I currently support >>> monetarily if I hadn't nicked some of their work illegally. Do the ends >>> justify the means? How should I know? Let the ethicists in their ivory >>> towers navigate that quagmire. I just listen to music. >>> >>> On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 7:59 PM, Sam Loschl <watercat1996@gmail.com >>> <mailto:watercat1996@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>> anybody on waffles? just got an invite, looking for friends or any >>> advice you'd have for a novice. first private tracker i've had the >>> opportunity to join >>> >>> sam` >>> 808cat >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Sham Beam > > > -- > _____________________________________________ > Sent from my Sinclair ZX Spectrum 48K > _____________________________________________ > noise I make: > http://www.soundcloud.com/pushkin > http://www.last.fm/music/Pushkin > > noise I like: > http://www.last.fm/user/zombiefly > > sites I run: > http://www.ctran.co.uk > http://o-fu-online.net > -------------------------------

just follow him on facebook. you'll soon get to realise what he thinks of the music industry and the middleman. Don't get me wrong here, piracy is bad, my point is that waffles/what.cd caused my music purchasing to rise, not fall. but then that's just me... do you think that sites have cause a drop in sales? do you think that the people pirating would purchase if piracy wasn't an option? i think a small percentage would but the others would just find some other way of getting music for free.. On 20 October 2014 14:39, Esa J. Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 95 lines Can You direct us to an interview with A Guy Called Gerald?

> Can You direct us to an interview with A Guy Called Gerald? > > Sent from some iDevice. Written by Esa. > > > On 20 Oct 2014, at 15:33, Zombiefly <zombiefly@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > to be fair, spotify and youtube weren't around when i joined OiNK. > > it's only recently that these services have taken off. I hardly use > > torrents any more, i've purchased all my needs from the past now and i > > continue to buy new stuff on bandcamp etc. It was the music industry > > that failed to respond to the internet, so don't blame OiNKers for > > creating something to force their hand. Rules are simple, if you > > download, then purchase from the artist directly. Paying the major > > companies for anything is even worse. the artist gets virtually none > > of that. Go speak to A Guy Called Gerald and ask him what he thinks of > > the music industry :) > > > > > >> On 20/10/2014, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com> wrote: > >> internet music wankers (tm) > >> > >> “but i wouldnt discover things if i didnt copy them at first” is the > most > >> 80s argument i know of. hey we have things like youtube and spotify in > the > >> 2000s, hope you’ll join us here, connor.. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> On 13 Oct 2014, at 09:13, Esa Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> im bad with ratios and whatnots so i would just go there to find > comments > >>> on my own releases. > >>> that's what i used what.cd for, i think. > >>> > >>> > >>> On 13 October 2014 08:24, Connor Higgins <connor1higgins@gmail.com> > >>> wrote: > >>> Still ethically shaky regardless of accepting that it as such. > >>> > >>> On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 10:04 PM, Sham Beam <sham.beam@gmail.com> > wrote: > >>> it's only a quagmire if you don't want to accept piracy is > disrespectful. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On 10/13/2014 3:22 PM, Connor Higgins wrote: > >>> If it's anything like what.cd <http://what.cd>, just make sure to be > >>> picky in your selections and seed generously. No need to fill requests > >>> or upload unless you're going overboard with your "purchases". > >>> > >>> If this ends up turning into one of those rehashed discussions on the > >>> merits and moral qualms associated with pirating music, then here are > my > >>> two cents: I wouldn't know 2/3's of the artists I currently support > >>> monetarily if I hadn't nicked some of their work illegally. Do the ends > >>> justify the means? How should I know? Let the ethicists in their ivory > >>> towers navigate that quagmire. I just listen to music. > >>> > >>> On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 7:59 PM, Sam Loschl <watercat1996@gmail.com > >>> <mailto:watercat1996@gmail.com>> wrote: > >>> > >>> anybody on waffles? just got an invite, looking for friends or any > >>> advice you'd have for a novice. first private tracker i've had the > >>> opportunity to join > >>> > >>> sam` > >>> 808cat > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Sham Beam > > > > > > -- > > _____________________________________________ > > Sent from my Sinclair ZX Spectrum 48K > > _____________________________________________ > > noise I make: > > http://www.soundcloud.com/pushkin > > http://www.last.fm/music/Pushkin > > > > noise I like: > > http://www.last.fm/user/zombiefly > > > > sites I run: > > http://www.ctran.co.uk > > http://o-fu-online.net > > ------------------------------- >

-- _____________________________________________ Sent from my Sinclair ZX Spectrum 48K _____________________________________________ noise I make: http://www.soundcloud.com/pushkin http://www.last.fm/music/Pushkin noise I like: http://www.last.fm/user/zombiefly sites I run: http://www.ctran.co.uk http://o-fu-online.net -------------------------------

I AM GROOT On 20 October 2014 16:55, Zombiefly <zombiefly@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 126 lines just follow him on facebook. you'll soon get to realise what he thinks of

> just follow him on facebook. you'll soon get to realise what he thinks of > the music industry and the middleman. Don't get me wrong here, piracy is > bad, my point is that waffles/what.cd caused my music purchasing to rise, > not fall. but then that's just me... do you think that sites have cause a > drop in sales? do you think that the people pirating would purchase if > piracy wasn't an option? i think a small percentage would but the others > would just find some other way of getting music for free.. > > > On 20 October 2014 14:39, Esa J. Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Can You direct us to an interview with A Guy Called Gerald? >> >> Sent from some iDevice. Written by Esa. >> >> > On 20 Oct 2014, at 15:33, Zombiefly <zombiefly@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > to be fair, spotify and youtube weren't around when i joined OiNK. >> > it's only recently that these services have taken off. I hardly use >> > torrents any more, i've purchased all my needs from the past now and i >> > continue to buy new stuff on bandcamp etc. It was the music industry >> > that failed to respond to the internet, so don't blame OiNKers for >> > creating something to force their hand. Rules are simple, if you >> > download, then purchase from the artist directly. Paying the major >> > companies for anything is even worse. the artist gets virtually none >> > of that. Go speak to A Guy Called Gerald and ask him what he thinks of >> > the music industry :) >> > >> > >> >> On 20/10/2014, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> internet music wankers (tm) >> >> >> >> "but i wouldnt discover things if i didnt copy them at first" is the >> most >> >> 80s argument i know of. hey we have things like youtube and spotify in >> the >> >> 2000s, hope you'll join us here, connor.. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On 13 Oct 2014, at 09:13, Esa Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> im bad with ratios and whatnots so i would just go there to find >> comments >> >>> on my own releases. >> >>> that's what i used what.cd for, i think. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On 13 October 2014 08:24, Connor Higgins <connor1higgins@gmail.com> >> >>> wrote: >> >>> Still ethically shaky regardless of accepting that it as such. >> >>> >> >>> On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 10:04 PM, Sham Beam <sham.beam@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> it's only a quagmire if you don't want to accept piracy is >> disrespectful. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On 10/13/2014 3:22 PM, Connor Higgins wrote: >> >>> If it's anything like what.cd <http://what.cd>, just make sure to be >> >>> picky in your selections and seed generously. No need to fill requests >> >>> or upload unless you're going overboard with your "purchases". >> >>> >> >>> If this ends up turning into one of those rehashed discussions on the >> >>> merits and moral qualms associated with pirating music, then here are >> my >> >>> two cents: I wouldn't know 2/3's of the artists I currently support >> >>> monetarily if I hadn't nicked some of their work illegally. Do the >> ends >> >>> justify the means? How should I know? Let the ethicists in their ivory >> >>> towers navigate that quagmire. I just listen to music. >> >>> >> >>> On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 7:59 PM, Sam Loschl <watercat1996@gmail.com >> >>> <mailto:watercat1996@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> anybody on waffles? just got an invite, looking for friends or any >> >>> advice you'd have for a novice. first private tracker i've had the >> >>> opportunity to join >> >>> >> >>> sam` >> >>> 808cat >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> Sham Beam >> > >> > >> > -- >> > _____________________________________________ >> > Sent from my Sinclair ZX Spectrum 48K >> > _____________________________________________ >> > noise I make: >> > http://www.soundcloud.com/pushkin >> > http://www.last.fm/music/Pushkin >> > >> > noise I like: >> > http://www.last.fm/user/zombiefly >> > >> > sites I run: >> > http://www.ctran.co.uk >> > http://o-fu-online.net >> > ------------------------------- >> > > > > -- > _____________________________________________ > Sent from my Sinclair ZX Spectrum 48K > _____________________________________________ > noise I make: > http://www.soundcloud.com/pushkin > http://www.last.fm/music/Pushkin > > noise I like: > http://www.last.fm/user/zombiefly > > sites I run: > http://www.ctran.co.uk > http://o-fu-online.net > ------------------------------- >

i like to make generalised sweeping statements about an entire industry based on my habits too On 20 Oct 2014, at 15:56, Esa Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 115 lines I AM GROOT

> I AM GROOT > > > On 20 October 2014 16:55, Zombiefly <zombiefly@gmail.com> wrote: > just follow him on facebook. you'll soon get to realise what he thinks of the music industry and the middleman. Don't get me wrong here, piracy is bad, my point is that waffles/what.cd caused my music purchasing to rise, not fall. but then that's just me... do you think that sites have cause a drop in sales? do you think that the people pirating would purchase if piracy wasn't an option? i think a small percentage would but the others would just find some other way of getting music for free.. > > > On 20 October 2014 14:39, Esa J. Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: > Can You direct us to an interview with A Guy Called Gerald? > > Sent from some iDevice. Written by Esa. > > > On 20 Oct 2014, at 15:33, Zombiefly <zombiefly@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > to be fair, spotify and youtube weren't around when i joined OiNK. > > it's only recently that these services have taken off. I hardly use > > torrents any more, i've purchased all my needs from the past now and i > > continue to buy new stuff on bandcamp etc. It was the music industry > > that failed to respond to the internet, so don't blame OiNKers for > > creating something to force their hand. Rules are simple, if you > > download, then purchase from the artist directly. Paying the major > > companies for anything is even worse. the artist gets virtually none > > of that. Go speak to A Guy Called Gerald and ask him what he thinks of > > the music industry :) > > > > > >> On 20/10/2014, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com> wrote: > >> internet music wankers (tm) > >> > >> “but i wouldnt discover things if i didnt copy them at first” is the most > >> 80s argument i know of. hey we have things like youtube and spotify in the > >> 2000s, hope you’ll join us here, connor.. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> On 13 Oct 2014, at 09:13, Esa Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> im bad with ratios and whatnots so i would just go there to find comments > >>> on my own releases. > >>> that's what i used what.cd for, i think. > >>> > >>> > >>> On 13 October 2014 08:24, Connor Higgins <connor1higgins@gmail.com> > >>> wrote: > >>> Still ethically shaky regardless of accepting that it as such. > >>> > >>> On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 10:04 PM, Sham Beam <sham.beam@gmail.com> wrote: > >>> it's only a quagmire if you don't want to accept piracy is disrespectful. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On 10/13/2014 3:22 PM, Connor Higgins wrote: > >>> If it's anything like what.cd <http://what.cd>, just make sure to be > >>> picky in your selections and seed generously. No need to fill requests > >>> or upload unless you're going overboard with your "purchases". > >>> > >>> If this ends up turning into one of those rehashed discussions on the > >>> merits and moral qualms associated with pirating music, then here are my > >>> two cents: I wouldn't know 2/3's of the artists I currently support > >>> monetarily if I hadn't nicked some of their work illegally. Do the ends > >>> justify the means? How should I know? Let the ethicists in their ivory > >>> towers navigate that quagmire. I just listen to music. > >>> > >>> On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 7:59 PM, Sam Loschl <watercat1996@gmail.com > >>> <mailto:watercat1996@gmail.com>> wrote: > >>> > >>> anybody on waffles? just got an invite, looking for friends or any > >>> advice you'd have for a novice. first private tracker i've had the > >>> opportunity to join > >>> > >>> sam` > >>> 808cat > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Sham Beam > > > > > > -- > > _____________________________________________ > > Sent from my Sinclair ZX Spectrum 48K > > _____________________________________________ > > noise I make: > > http://www.soundcloud.com/pushkin > > http://www.last.fm/music/Pushkin > > > > noise I like: > > http://www.last.fm/user/zombiefly > > > > sites I run: > > http://www.ctran.co.uk > > http://o-fu-online.net > > ------------------------------- > > > > -- > _____________________________________________ > Sent from my Sinclair ZX Spectrum 48K > _____________________________________________ > noise I make: > http://www.soundcloud.com/pushkin > http://www.last.fm/music/Pushkin > > noise I like: > http://www.last.fm/user/zombiefly > > sites I run: > http://www.ctran.co.uk > http://o-fu-online.net > ------------------------------- >

Don't know if this is the place to ask but..... Is any one capable of inviting me to these services? Cheers, Tris On 20 October 2014 17:15, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 142 lines i like to make generalised sweeping statements about an entire industry

> i like to make generalised sweeping statements about an entire industry > based on my habits too > > > On 20 Oct 2014, at 15:56, Esa Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: > > I AM GROOT > > > On 20 October 2014 16:55, Zombiefly <zombiefly@gmail.com> wrote: > >> just follow him on facebook. you'll soon get to realise what he thinks of >> the music industry and the middleman. Don't get me wrong here, piracy is >> bad, my point is that waffles/what.cd caused my music purchasing to >> rise, not fall. but then that's just me... do you think that sites have >> cause a drop in sales? do you think that the people pirating would purchase >> if piracy wasn't an option? i think a small percentage would but the others >> would just find some other way of getting music for free.. >> >> >> On 20 October 2014 14:39, Esa J. Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Can You direct us to an interview with A Guy Called Gerald? >>> >>> Sent from some iDevice. Written by Esa. >>> >>> > On 20 Oct 2014, at 15:33, Zombiefly <zombiefly@gmail.com> wrote: >>> > >>> > to be fair, spotify and youtube weren't around when i joined OiNK. >>> > it's only recently that these services have taken off. I hardly use >>> > torrents any more, i've purchased all my needs from the past now and i >>> > continue to buy new stuff on bandcamp etc. It was the music industry >>> > that failed to respond to the internet, so don't blame OiNKers for >>> > creating something to force their hand. Rules are simple, if you >>> > download, then purchase from the artist directly. Paying the major >>> > companies for anything is even worse. the artist gets virtually none >>> > of that. Go speak to A Guy Called Gerald and ask him what he thinks of >>> > the music industry :) >>> > >>> > >>> >> On 20/10/2014, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >> internet music wankers (tm) >>> >> >>> >> “but i wouldnt discover things if i didnt copy them at first” is the >>> most >>> >> 80s argument i know of. hey we have things like youtube and spotify >>> in the >>> >> 2000s, hope you’ll join us here, connor.. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>> On 13 Oct 2014, at 09:13, Esa Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> im bad with ratios and whatnots so i would just go there to find >>> comments >>> >>> on my own releases. >>> >>> that's what i used what.cd for, i think. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 13 October 2014 08:24, Connor Higgins <connor1higgins@gmail.com> >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Still ethically shaky regardless of accepting that it as such. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 10:04 PM, Sham Beam <sham.beam@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> it's only a quagmire if you don't want to accept piracy is >>> disrespectful. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 10/13/2014 3:22 PM, Connor Higgins wrote: >>> >>> If it's anything like what.cd <http://what.cd>, just make sure to be >>> >>> picky in your selections and seed generously. No need to fill >>> requests >>> >>> or upload unless you're going overboard with your "purchases". >>> >>> >>> >>> If this ends up turning into one of those rehashed discussions on the >>> >>> merits and moral qualms associated with pirating music, then here >>> are my >>> >>> two cents: I wouldn't know 2/3's of the artists I currently support >>> >>> monetarily if I hadn't nicked some of their work illegally. Do the >>> ends >>> >>> justify the means? How should I know? Let the ethicists in their >>> ivory >>> >>> towers navigate that quagmire. I just listen to music. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 7:59 PM, Sam Loschl <watercat1996@gmail.com >>> >>> <mailto:watercat1996@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> anybody on waffles? just got an invite, looking for friends or any >>> >>> advice you'd have for a novice. first private tracker i've had the >>> >>> opportunity to join >>> >>> >>> >>> sam` >>> >>> 808cat >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Sham Beam >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > _____________________________________________ >>> > Sent from my Sinclair ZX Spectrum 48K >>> > _____________________________________________ >>> > noise I make: >>> > http://www.soundcloud.com/pushkin >>> > http://www.last.fm/music/Pushkin >>> > >>> > noise I like: >>> > http://www.last.fm/user/zombiefly >>> > >>> > sites I run: >>> > http://www.ctran.co.uk >>> > http://o-fu-online.net >>> > ------------------------------- >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> _____________________________________________ >> Sent from my Sinclair ZX Spectrum 48K >> _____________________________________________ >> noise I make: >> http://www.soundcloud.com/pushkin >> http://www.last.fm/music/Pushkin >> >> noise I like: >> http://www.last.fm/user/zombiefly >> >> sites I run: >> http://www.ctran.co.uk >> http://o-fu-online.net >> ------------------------------- >> > > >

Juho: Do you have a good rebuttal to the "ends justifying the means" argument concerning piracy and its potential benefits? I'm all ears. Let's just stay away from blatant misrepresentations of each other's views. Tris: I'd send you one if I had an invite to give, but unfortunately I don't. Trackers tend to be rather conservative when handing those out. The other method is to take the IRC interview and test, which is how I ended up joining. It's a little tedious (~3 hours or so) but it isn't too difficult in terms of content. Just know the basic file formats and the like. There's a number of resources online if you're interested enough. On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 12:44 PM, Tristan Strange <tristan.strange@gmail.com

quoted 1 line wrote:

> wrote:

quoted 156 lines Don't know if this is the place to ask but.....

> Don't know if this is the place to ask but..... > > Is any one capable of inviting me to these services? > > Cheers, > Tris > > On 20 October 2014 17:15, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com> wrote: > >> i like to make generalised sweeping statements about an entire industry >> based on my habits too >> >> >> On 20 Oct 2014, at 15:56, Esa Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I AM GROOT >> >> >> On 20 October 2014 16:55, Zombiefly <zombiefly@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> just follow him on facebook. you'll soon get to realise what he thinks >>> of the music industry and the middleman. Don't get me wrong here, piracy is >>> bad, my point is that waffles/what.cd caused my music purchasing to >>> rise, not fall. but then that's just me... do you think that sites have >>> cause a drop in sales? do you think that the people pirating would purchase >>> if piracy wasn't an option? i think a small percentage would but the others >>> would just find some other way of getting music for free.. >>> >>> >>> On 20 October 2014 14:39, Esa J. Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Can You direct us to an interview with A Guy Called Gerald? >>>> >>>> Sent from some iDevice. Written by Esa. >>>> >>>> > On 20 Oct 2014, at 15:33, Zombiefly <zombiefly@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > to be fair, spotify and youtube weren't around when i joined OiNK. >>>> > it's only recently that these services have taken off. I hardly use >>>> > torrents any more, i've purchased all my needs from the past now and i >>>> > continue to buy new stuff on bandcamp etc. It was the music industry >>>> > that failed to respond to the internet, so don't blame OiNKers for >>>> > creating something to force their hand. Rules are simple, if you >>>> > download, then purchase from the artist directly. Paying the major >>>> > companies for anything is even worse. the artist gets virtually none >>>> > of that. Go speak to A Guy Called Gerald and ask him what he thinks of >>>> > the music industry :) >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >> On 20/10/2014, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >> internet music wankers (tm) >>>> >> >>>> >> “but i wouldnt discover things if i didnt copy them at first” is the >>>> most >>>> >> 80s argument i know of. hey we have things like youtube and spotify >>>> in the >>>> >> 2000s, hope you’ll join us here, connor.. >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>> On 13 Oct 2014, at 09:13, Esa Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>> >>>> >>> im bad with ratios and whatnots so i would just go there to find >>>> comments >>>> >>> on my own releases. >>>> >>> that's what i used what.cd for, i think. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> On 13 October 2014 08:24, Connor Higgins <connor1higgins@gmail.com> >>>> >>> wrote: >>>> >>> Still ethically shaky regardless of accepting that it as such. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 10:04 PM, Sham Beam <sham.beam@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>> it's only a quagmire if you don't want to accept piracy is >>>> disrespectful. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> On 10/13/2014 3:22 PM, Connor Higgins wrote: >>>> >>> If it's anything like what.cd <http://what.cd>, just make sure to >>>> be >>>> >>> picky in your selections and seed generously. No need to fill >>>> requests >>>> >>> or upload unless you're going overboard with your "purchases". >>>> >>> >>>> >>> If this ends up turning into one of those rehashed discussions on >>>> the >>>> >>> merits and moral qualms associated with pirating music, then here >>>> are my >>>> >>> two cents: I wouldn't know 2/3's of the artists I currently support >>>> >>> monetarily if I hadn't nicked some of their work illegally. Do the >>>> ends >>>> >>> justify the means? How should I know? Let the ethicists in their >>>> ivory >>>> >>> towers navigate that quagmire. I just listen to music. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 7:59 PM, Sam Loschl <watercat1996@gmail.com >>>> >>> <mailto:watercat1996@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>> >>> >>>> >>> anybody on waffles? just got an invite, looking for friends or >>>> any >>>> >>> advice you'd have for a novice. first private tracker i've had >>>> the >>>> >>> opportunity to join >>>> >>> >>>> >>> sam` >>>> >>> 808cat >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> -- >>>> >>> Sham Beam >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > _____________________________________________ >>>> > Sent from my Sinclair ZX Spectrum 48K >>>> > _____________________________________________ >>>> > noise I make: >>>> > http://www.soundcloud.com/pushkin >>>> > http://www.last.fm/music/Pushkin >>>> > >>>> > noise I like: >>>> > http://www.last.fm/user/zombiefly >>>> > >>>> > sites I run: >>>> > http://www.ctran.co.uk >>>> > http://o-fu-online.net >>>> > ------------------------------- >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> _____________________________________________ >>> Sent from my Sinclair ZX Spectrum 48K >>> _____________________________________________ >>> noise I make: >>> http://www.soundcloud.com/pushkin >>> http://www.last.fm/music/Pushkin >>> >>> noise I like: >>> http://www.last.fm/user/zombiefly >>> >>> sites I run: >>> http://www.ctran.co.uk >>> http://o-fu-online.net >>> ------------------------------- >>> >> >> >> >

heh, not gonna say anything other than that google will provide you with more music sharing 0dayz sites than you will ever be able to shake any number of sticks at personally i enjoy buying records and listening to clicks and pops too much to pirate everything but i do really insist on at least streaming the entire release before i drop what is sometimes as much as $40 on a release (SYRO was $32.99!) im not pro-file-sharing sites i just think its ridiculous that there is a interview process and invites for something that literally couldn't be easier to find or even trip over its so common Clint Anderson Systems Engineer On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 2:08 PM, Connor Higgins <connor1higgins@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 175 lines Juho: Do you have a good rebuttal to the "ends justifying the means"

> Juho: Do you have a good rebuttal to the "ends justifying the means" > argument concerning piracy and its potential benefits? I'm all ears. Let's > just stay away from blatant misrepresentations of each other's views. > > Tris: I'd send you one if I had an invite to give, but unfortunately I > don't. Trackers tend to be rather conservative when handing those out. The > other method is to take the IRC interview and test, which is how I ended up > joining. It's a little tedious (~3 hours or so) but it isn't too difficult > in terms of content. Just know the basic file formats and the like. There's > a number of resources online if you're interested enough. > > On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 12:44 PM, Tristan Strange < > tristan.strange@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Don't know if this is the place to ask but..... >> >> Is any one capable of inviting me to these services? >> >> Cheers, >> Tris >> >> On 20 October 2014 17:15, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> i like to make generalised sweeping statements about an entire industry >>> based on my habits too >>> >>> >>> On 20 Oct 2014, at 15:56, Esa Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> I AM GROOT >>> >>> >>> On 20 October 2014 16:55, Zombiefly <zombiefly@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> just follow him on facebook. you'll soon get to realise what he thinks >>>> of the music industry and the middleman. Don't get me wrong here, piracy is >>>> bad, my point is that waffles/what.cd caused my music purchasing to >>>> rise, not fall. but then that's just me... do you think that sites have >>>> cause a drop in sales? do you think that the people pirating would purchase >>>> if piracy wasn't an option? i think a small percentage would but the others >>>> would just find some other way of getting music for free.. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 20 October 2014 14:39, Esa J. Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Can You direct us to an interview with A Guy Called Gerald? >>>>> >>>>> Sent from some iDevice. Written by Esa. >>>>> >>>>> > On 20 Oct 2014, at 15:33, Zombiefly <zombiefly@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> > to be fair, spotify and youtube weren't around when i joined OiNK. >>>>> > it's only recently that these services have taken off. I hardly use >>>>> > torrents any more, i've purchased all my needs from the past now and >>>>> i >>>>> > continue to buy new stuff on bandcamp etc. It was the music industry >>>>> > that failed to respond to the internet, so don't blame OiNKers for >>>>> > creating something to force their hand. Rules are simple, if you >>>>> > download, then purchase from the artist directly. Paying the major >>>>> > companies for anything is even worse. the artist gets virtually none >>>>> > of that. Go speak to A Guy Called Gerald and ask him what he thinks >>>>> of >>>>> > the music industry :) >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> >> On 20/10/2014, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >> internet music wankers (tm) >>>>> >> >>>>> >> “but i wouldnt discover things if i didnt copy them at first” is >>>>> the most >>>>> >> 80s argument i know of. hey we have things like youtube and spotify >>>>> in the >>>>> >> 2000s, hope you’ll join us here, connor.. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >>> On 13 Oct 2014, at 09:13, Esa Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> im bad with ratios and whatnots so i would just go there to find >>>>> comments >>>>> >>> on my own releases. >>>>> >>> that's what i used what.cd for, i think. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> On 13 October 2014 08:24, Connor Higgins <connor1higgins@gmail.com >>>>> > >>>>> >>> wrote: >>>>> >>> Still ethically shaky regardless of accepting that it as such. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 10:04 PM, Sham Beam <sham.beam@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>> it's only a quagmire if you don't want to accept piracy is >>>>> disrespectful. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> On 10/13/2014 3:22 PM, Connor Higgins wrote: >>>>> >>> If it's anything like what.cd <http://what.cd>, just make sure to >>>>> be >>>>> >>> picky in your selections and seed generously. No need to fill >>>>> requests >>>>> >>> or upload unless you're going overboard with your "purchases". >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> If this ends up turning into one of those rehashed discussions on >>>>> the >>>>> >>> merits and moral qualms associated with pirating music, then here >>>>> are my >>>>> >>> two cents: I wouldn't know 2/3's of the artists I currently support >>>>> >>> monetarily if I hadn't nicked some of their work illegally. Do the >>>>> ends >>>>> >>> justify the means? How should I know? Let the ethicists in their >>>>> ivory >>>>> >>> towers navigate that quagmire. I just listen to music. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 7:59 PM, Sam Loschl < >>>>> watercat1996@gmail.com >>>>> >>> <mailto:watercat1996@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> anybody on waffles? just got an invite, looking for friends or >>>>> any >>>>> >>> advice you'd have for a novice. first private tracker i've had >>>>> the >>>>> >>> opportunity to join >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> sam` >>>>> >>> 808cat >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> -- >>>>> >>> Sham Beam >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > -- >>>>> > _____________________________________________ >>>>> > Sent from my Sinclair ZX Spectrum 48K >>>>> > _____________________________________________ >>>>> > noise I make: >>>>> > http://www.soundcloud.com/pushkin >>>>> > http://www.last.fm/music/Pushkin >>>>> > >>>>> > noise I like: >>>>> > http://www.last.fm/user/zombiefly >>>>> > >>>>> > sites I run: >>>>> > http://www.ctran.co.uk >>>>> > http://o-fu-online.net >>>>> > ------------------------------- >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> _____________________________________________ >>>> Sent from my Sinclair ZX Spectrum 48K >>>> _____________________________________________ >>>> noise I make: >>>> http://www.soundcloud.com/pushkin >>>> http://www.last.fm/music/Pushkin >>>> >>>> noise I like: >>>> http://www.last.fm/user/zombiefly >>>> >>>> sites I run: >>>> http://www.ctran.co.uk >>>> http://o-fu-online.net >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >

Haha, yeah. What and waffles both are way too elitist for their own good. That being said, private trackers have the upside of being meticulously catalogue/well seeded. On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 3:18 PM, Clint Anderson <clinta@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 197 lines heh, not gonna say anything other than that google will provide you with

> heh, not gonna say anything other than that google will provide you with > more music sharing 0dayz sites than you will ever be able to shake any > number of sticks at > > personally i enjoy buying records and listening to clicks and pops too > much to pirate everything but i do really insist on at least streaming the > entire release before i drop what is sometimes as much as $40 on a release > (SYRO was $32.99!) > > im not pro-file-sharing sites i just think its ridiculous that there is a > interview process and invites for something that literally couldn't be > easier to find or even trip over its so common > > > Clint Anderson > Systems Engineer > > On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 2:08 PM, Connor Higgins <connor1higgins@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Juho: Do you have a good rebuttal to the "ends justifying the means" >> argument concerning piracy and its potential benefits? I'm all ears. Let's >> just stay away from blatant misrepresentations of each other's views. >> >> Tris: I'd send you one if I had an invite to give, but unfortunately I >> don't. Trackers tend to be rather conservative when handing those out. The >> other method is to take the IRC interview and test, which is how I ended up >> joining. It's a little tedious (~3 hours or so) but it isn't too difficult >> in terms of content. Just know the basic file formats and the like. There's >> a number of resources online if you're interested enough. >> >> On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 12:44 PM, Tristan Strange < >> tristan.strange@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Don't know if this is the place to ask but..... >>> >>> Is any one capable of inviting me to these services? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Tris >>> >>> On 20 October 2014 17:15, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> i like to make generalised sweeping statements about an entire industry >>>> based on my habits too >>>> >>>> >>>> On 20 Oct 2014, at 15:56, Esa Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> I AM GROOT >>>> >>>> >>>> On 20 October 2014 16:55, Zombiefly <zombiefly@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> just follow him on facebook. you'll soon get to realise what he thinks >>>>> of the music industry and the middleman. Don't get me wrong here, piracy is >>>>> bad, my point is that waffles/what.cd caused my music purchasing to >>>>> rise, not fall. but then that's just me... do you think that sites have >>>>> cause a drop in sales? do you think that the people pirating would purchase >>>>> if piracy wasn't an option? i think a small percentage would but the others >>>>> would just find some other way of getting music for free.. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 20 October 2014 14:39, Esa J. Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Can You direct us to an interview with A Guy Called Gerald? >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from some iDevice. Written by Esa. >>>>>> >>>>>> > On 20 Oct 2014, at 15:33, Zombiefly <zombiefly@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > to be fair, spotify and youtube weren't around when i joined OiNK. >>>>>> > it's only recently that these services have taken off. I hardly use >>>>>> > torrents any more, i've purchased all my needs from the past now >>>>>> and i >>>>>> > continue to buy new stuff on bandcamp etc. It was the music industry >>>>>> > that failed to respond to the internet, so don't blame OiNKers for >>>>>> > creating something to force their hand. Rules are simple, if you >>>>>> > download, then purchase from the artist directly. Paying the major >>>>>> > companies for anything is even worse. the artist gets virtually none >>>>>> > of that. Go speak to A Guy Called Gerald and ask him what he thinks >>>>>> of >>>>>> > the music industry :) >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> >> On 20/10/2014, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >> internet music wankers (tm) >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> “but i wouldnt discover things if i didnt copy them at first” is >>>>>> the most >>>>>> >> 80s argument i know of. hey we have things like youtube and >>>>>> spotify in the >>>>>> >> 2000s, hope you’ll join us here, connor.. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>> On 13 Oct 2014, at 09:13, Esa Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> im bad with ratios and whatnots so i would just go there to find >>>>>> comments >>>>>> >>> on my own releases. >>>>>> >>> that's what i used what.cd for, i think. >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> On 13 October 2014 08:24, Connor Higgins < >>>>>> connor1higgins@gmail.com> >>>>>> >>> wrote: >>>>>> >>> Still ethically shaky regardless of accepting that it as such. >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 10:04 PM, Sham Beam <sham.beam@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>> it's only a quagmire if you don't want to accept piracy is >>>>>> disrespectful. >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> On 10/13/2014 3:22 PM, Connor Higgins wrote: >>>>>> >>> If it's anything like what.cd <http://what.cd>, just make sure >>>>>> to be >>>>>> >>> picky in your selections and seed generously. No need to fill >>>>>> requests >>>>>> >>> or upload unless you're going overboard with your "purchases". >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> If this ends up turning into one of those rehashed discussions on >>>>>> the >>>>>> >>> merits and moral qualms associated with pirating music, then here >>>>>> are my >>>>>> >>> two cents: I wouldn't know 2/3's of the artists I currently >>>>>> support >>>>>> >>> monetarily if I hadn't nicked some of their work illegally. Do >>>>>> the ends >>>>>> >>> justify the means? How should I know? Let the ethicists in their >>>>>> ivory >>>>>> >>> towers navigate that quagmire. I just listen to music. >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 7:59 PM, Sam Loschl < >>>>>> watercat1996@gmail.com >>>>>> >>> <mailto:watercat1996@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> anybody on waffles? just got an invite, looking for friends or >>>>>> any >>>>>> >>> advice you'd have for a novice. first private tracker i've had >>>>>> the >>>>>> >>> opportunity to join >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> sam` >>>>>> >>> 808cat >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> -- >>>>>> >>> Sham Beam >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > -- >>>>>> > _____________________________________________ >>>>>> > Sent from my Sinclair ZX Spectrum 48K >>>>>> > _____________________________________________ >>>>>> > noise I make: >>>>>> > http://www.soundcloud.com/pushkin >>>>>> > http://www.last.fm/music/Pushkin >>>>>> > >>>>>> > noise I like: >>>>>> > http://www.last.fm/user/zombiefly >>>>>> > >>>>>> > sites I run: >>>>>> > http://www.ctran.co.uk >>>>>> > http://o-fu-online.net >>>>>> > ------------------------------- >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> _____________________________________________ >>>>> Sent from my Sinclair ZX Spectrum 48K >>>>> _____________________________________________ >>>>> noise I make: >>>>> http://www.soundcloud.com/pushkin >>>>> http://www.last.fm/music/Pushkin >>>>> >>>>> noise I like: >>>>> http://www.last.fm/user/zombiefly >>>>> >>>>> sites I run: >>>>> http://www.ctran.co.uk >>>>> http://o-fu-online.net >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >

piracy is theft. or else, instead of calling it piracy, it'd be called "happy free giveaways from people who work their ass off on their art". yes, it is that black and white. On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 1:18 PM, Clint Anderson <clinta@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 197 lines heh, not gonna say anything other than that google will provide you with

> heh, not gonna say anything other than that google will provide you with > more music sharing 0dayz sites than you will ever be able to shake any > number of sticks at > > personally i enjoy buying records and listening to clicks and pops too > much to pirate everything but i do really insist on at least streaming the > entire release before i drop what is sometimes as much as $40 on a release > (SYRO was $32.99!) > > im not pro-file-sharing sites i just think its ridiculous that there is a > interview process and invites for something that literally couldn't be > easier to find or even trip over its so common > > > Clint Anderson > Systems Engineer > > On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 2:08 PM, Connor Higgins <connor1higgins@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Juho: Do you have a good rebuttal to the "ends justifying the means" >> argument concerning piracy and its potential benefits? I'm all ears. Let's >> just stay away from blatant misrepresentations of each other's views. >> >> Tris: I'd send you one if I had an invite to give, but unfortunately I >> don't. Trackers tend to be rather conservative when handing those out. The >> other method is to take the IRC interview and test, which is how I ended up >> joining. It's a little tedious (~3 hours or so) but it isn't too difficult >> in terms of content. Just know the basic file formats and the like. There's >> a number of resources online if you're interested enough. >> >> On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 12:44 PM, Tristan Strange < >> tristan.strange@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Don't know if this is the place to ask but..... >>> >>> Is any one capable of inviting me to these services? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Tris >>> >>> On 20 October 2014 17:15, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> i like to make generalised sweeping statements about an entire industry >>>> based on my habits too >>>> >>>> >>>> On 20 Oct 2014, at 15:56, Esa Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> I AM GROOT >>>> >>>> >>>> On 20 October 2014 16:55, Zombiefly <zombiefly@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> just follow him on facebook. you'll soon get to realise what he thinks >>>>> of the music industry and the middleman. Don't get me wrong here, piracy is >>>>> bad, my point is that waffles/what.cd caused my music purchasing to >>>>> rise, not fall. but then that's just me... do you think that sites have >>>>> cause a drop in sales? do you think that the people pirating would purchase >>>>> if piracy wasn't an option? i think a small percentage would but the others >>>>> would just find some other way of getting music for free.. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 20 October 2014 14:39, Esa J. Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Can You direct us to an interview with A Guy Called Gerald? >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from some iDevice. Written by Esa. >>>>>> >>>>>> > On 20 Oct 2014, at 15:33, Zombiefly <zombiefly@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > to be fair, spotify and youtube weren't around when i joined OiNK. >>>>>> > it's only recently that these services have taken off. I hardly use >>>>>> > torrents any more, i've purchased all my needs from the past now >>>>>> and i >>>>>> > continue to buy new stuff on bandcamp etc. It was the music industry >>>>>> > that failed to respond to the internet, so don't blame OiNKers for >>>>>> > creating something to force their hand. Rules are simple, if you >>>>>> > download, then purchase from the artist directly. Paying the major >>>>>> > companies for anything is even worse. the artist gets virtually none >>>>>> > of that. Go speak to A Guy Called Gerald and ask him what he thinks >>>>>> of >>>>>> > the music industry :) >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> >> On 20/10/2014, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >> internet music wankers (tm) >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> "but i wouldnt discover things if i didnt copy them at first" is >>>>>> the most >>>>>> >> 80s argument i know of. hey we have things like youtube and >>>>>> spotify in the >>>>>> >> 2000s, hope you'll join us here, connor.. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>> On 13 Oct 2014, at 09:13, Esa Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> im bad with ratios and whatnots so i would just go there to find >>>>>> comments >>>>>> >>> on my own releases. >>>>>> >>> that's what i used what.cd for, i think. >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> On 13 October 2014 08:24, Connor Higgins < >>>>>> connor1higgins@gmail.com> >>>>>> >>> wrote: >>>>>> >>> Still ethically shaky regardless of accepting that it as such. >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 10:04 PM, Sham Beam <sham.beam@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>> it's only a quagmire if you don't want to accept piracy is >>>>>> disrespectful. >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> On 10/13/2014 3:22 PM, Connor Higgins wrote: >>>>>> >>> If it's anything like what.cd <http://what.cd>, just make sure >>>>>> to be >>>>>> >>> picky in your selections and seed generously. No need to fill >>>>>> requests >>>>>> >>> or upload unless you're going overboard with your "purchases". >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> If this ends up turning into one of those rehashed discussions on >>>>>> the >>>>>> >>> merits and moral qualms associated with pirating music, then here >>>>>> are my >>>>>> >>> two cents: I wouldn't know 2/3's of the artists I currently >>>>>> support >>>>>> >>> monetarily if I hadn't nicked some of their work illegally. Do >>>>>> the ends >>>>>> >>> justify the means? How should I know? Let the ethicists in their >>>>>> ivory >>>>>> >>> towers navigate that quagmire. I just listen to music. >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 7:59 PM, Sam Loschl < >>>>>> watercat1996@gmail.com >>>>>> >>> <mailto:watercat1996@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> anybody on waffles? just got an invite, looking for friends or >>>>>> any >>>>>> >>> advice you'd have for a novice. first private tracker i've had >>>>>> the >>>>>> >>> opportunity to join >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> sam` >>>>>> >>> 808cat >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> -- >>>>>> >>> Sham Beam >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > -- >>>>>> > _____________________________________________ >>>>>> > Sent from my Sinclair ZX Spectrum 48K >>>>>> > _____________________________________________ >>>>>> > noise I make: >>>>>> > http://www.soundcloud.com/pushkin >>>>>> > http://www.last.fm/music/Pushkin >>>>>> > >>>>>> > noise I like: >>>>>> > http://www.last.fm/user/zombiefly >>>>>> > >>>>>> > sites I run: >>>>>> > http://www.ctran.co.uk >>>>>> > http://o-fu-online.net >>>>>> > ------------------------------- >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> _____________________________________________ >>>>> Sent from my Sinclair ZX Spectrum 48K >>>>> _____________________________________________ >>>>> noise I make: >>>>> http://www.soundcloud.com/pushkin >>>>> http://www.last.fm/music/Pushkin >>>>> >>>>> noise I like: >>>>> http://www.last.fm/user/zombiefly >>>>> >>>>> sites I run: >>>>> http://www.ctran.co.uk >>>>> http://o-fu-online.net >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >

-- 22tape/jared dunne listen <http://22tape.com>

property is theft https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHSH9rUqTpw Clint Anderson Systems Engineer On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 2:30 PM, Jared Dunne <22tape@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 211 lines piracy is theft. or else, instead of calling it piracy, it'd be called

> piracy is theft. or else, instead of calling it piracy, it'd be called > "happy free giveaways from people who work their ass off on their art". > yes, it is that black and white. > > On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 1:18 PM, Clint Anderson <clinta@gmail.com> wrote: > >> heh, not gonna say anything other than that google will provide you with >> more music sharing 0dayz sites than you will ever be able to shake any >> number of sticks at >> >> personally i enjoy buying records and listening to clicks and pops too >> much to pirate everything but i do really insist on at least streaming the >> entire release before i drop what is sometimes as much as $40 on a release >> (SYRO was $32.99!) >> >> im not pro-file-sharing sites i just think its ridiculous that there is a >> interview process and invites for something that literally couldn't be >> easier to find or even trip over its so common >> >> >> Clint Anderson >> Systems Engineer >> >> On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 2:08 PM, Connor Higgins <connor1higgins@gmail.com >> > wrote: >> >>> Juho: Do you have a good rebuttal to the "ends justifying the means" >>> argument concerning piracy and its potential benefits? I'm all ears. Let's >>> just stay away from blatant misrepresentations of each other's views. >>> >>> Tris: I'd send you one if I had an invite to give, but unfortunately I >>> don't. Trackers tend to be rather conservative when handing those out. The >>> other method is to take the IRC interview and test, which is how I ended up >>> joining. It's a little tedious (~3 hours or so) but it isn't too difficult >>> in terms of content. Just know the basic file formats and the like. There's >>> a number of resources online if you're interested enough. >>> >>> On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 12:44 PM, Tristan Strange < >>> tristan.strange@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Don't know if this is the place to ask but..... >>>> >>>> Is any one capable of inviting me to these services? >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Tris >>>> >>>> On 20 October 2014 17:15, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> i like to make generalised sweeping statements about an entire >>>>> industry based on my habits too >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 20 Oct 2014, at 15:56, Esa Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I AM GROOT >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 20 October 2014 16:55, Zombiefly <zombiefly@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> just follow him on facebook. you'll soon get to realise what he >>>>>> thinks of the music industry and the middleman. Don't get me wrong here, >>>>>> piracy is bad, my point is that waffles/what.cd caused my music >>>>>> purchasing to rise, not fall. but then that's just me... do you think that >>>>>> sites have cause a drop in sales? do you think that the people pirating >>>>>> would purchase if piracy wasn't an option? i think a small percentage would >>>>>> but the others would just find some other way of getting music for free.. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 20 October 2014 14:39, Esa J. Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Can You direct us to an interview with A Guy Called Gerald? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from some iDevice. Written by Esa. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> > On 20 Oct 2014, at 15:33, Zombiefly <zombiefly@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > to be fair, spotify and youtube weren't around when i joined OiNK. >>>>>>> > it's only recently that these services have taken off. I hardly use >>>>>>> > torrents any more, i've purchased all my needs from the past now >>>>>>> and i >>>>>>> > continue to buy new stuff on bandcamp etc. It was the music >>>>>>> industry >>>>>>> > that failed to respond to the internet, so don't blame OiNKers for >>>>>>> > creating something to force their hand. Rules are simple, if you >>>>>>> > download, then purchase from the artist directly. Paying the major >>>>>>> > companies for anything is even worse. the artist gets virtually >>>>>>> none >>>>>>> > of that. Go speak to A Guy Called Gerald and ask him what he >>>>>>> thinks of >>>>>>> > the music industry :) >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >> On 20/10/2014, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >> internet music wankers (tm) >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> “but i wouldnt discover things if i didnt copy them at first” is >>>>>>> the most >>>>>>> >> 80s argument i know of. hey we have things like youtube and >>>>>>> spotify in the >>>>>>> >> 2000s, hope you’ll join us here, connor.. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >>> On 13 Oct 2014, at 09:13, Esa Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> im bad with ratios and whatnots so i would just go there to find >>>>>>> comments >>>>>>> >>> on my own releases. >>>>>>> >>> that's what i used what.cd for, i think. >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> On 13 October 2014 08:24, Connor Higgins < >>>>>>> connor1higgins@gmail.com> >>>>>>> >>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>> Still ethically shaky regardless of accepting that it as such. >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 10:04 PM, Sham Beam <sham.beam@gmail.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>> it's only a quagmire if you don't want to accept piracy is >>>>>>> disrespectful. >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> On 10/13/2014 3:22 PM, Connor Higgins wrote: >>>>>>> >>> If it's anything like what.cd <http://what.cd>, just make sure >>>>>>> to be >>>>>>> >>> picky in your selections and seed generously. No need to fill >>>>>>> requests >>>>>>> >>> or upload unless you're going overboard with your "purchases". >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> If this ends up turning into one of those rehashed discussions >>>>>>> on the >>>>>>> >>> merits and moral qualms associated with pirating music, then >>>>>>> here are my >>>>>>> >>> two cents: I wouldn't know 2/3's of the artists I currently >>>>>>> support >>>>>>> >>> monetarily if I hadn't nicked some of their work illegally. Do >>>>>>> the ends >>>>>>> >>> justify the means? How should I know? Let the ethicists in their >>>>>>> ivory >>>>>>> >>> towers navigate that quagmire. I just listen to music. >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 7:59 PM, Sam Loschl < >>>>>>> watercat1996@gmail.com >>>>>>> >>> <mailto:watercat1996@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> anybody on waffles? just got an invite, looking for friends >>>>>>> or any >>>>>>> >>> advice you'd have for a novice. first private tracker i've >>>>>>> had the >>>>>>> >>> opportunity to join >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> sam` >>>>>>> >>> 808cat >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> -- >>>>>>> >>> Sham Beam >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > -- >>>>>>> > _____________________________________________ >>>>>>> > Sent from my Sinclair ZX Spectrum 48K >>>>>>> > _____________________________________________ >>>>>>> > noise I make: >>>>>>> > http://www.soundcloud.com/pushkin >>>>>>> > http://www.last.fm/music/Pushkin >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > noise I like: >>>>>>> > http://www.last.fm/user/zombiefly >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > sites I run: >>>>>>> > http://www.ctran.co.uk >>>>>>> > http://o-fu-online.net >>>>>>> > ------------------------------- >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> _____________________________________________ >>>>>> Sent from my Sinclair ZX Spectrum 48K >>>>>> _____________________________________________ >>>>>> noise I make: >>>>>> http://www.soundcloud.com/pushkin >>>>>> http://www.last.fm/music/Pushkin >>>>>> >>>>>> noise I like: >>>>>> http://www.last.fm/user/zombiefly >>>>>> >>>>>> sites I run: >>>>>> http://www.ctran.co.uk >>>>>> http://o-fu-online.net >>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> > > > -- > 22tape/jared dunne > listen <http://22tape.com> >

Why should I even bother having this conversation when folks like Jared come in and smash the metaphorical house of cards we've already established. Yes, Jared: Piracy is a criminal act. What I'm asking is if piracy is currently aiding the promotion of new and upcoming artists. Someone above argued that youtube and spotify should be used instead of trackers, but I think everyone is aware of the limited scope that these services can provide. For one, they can barely attest to being better than pirating, as artists tend to receive little to no compensation per view. Furthermore, these services tend to omit certain groups, or only feature a specific subset of an artist's work. Consider someone that's just stumbled upon Autechre, but youtube or spotify only features Quaristice (Just a hypothetical). Most fans would agree there are better starting points in their discography, and having only found this one currently inaccessible album, our potential fan has written the duo off for good. On the other hand, if our potential fan uses a private tracker of sorts, he or she will find the duo's entire discography at their fingertips. Having read the reviews posted of albums, he or she can make an informed first-listening decision, which can potentially galvanize a long-term fandom, and therefore a monetary investment, be it through concert tickets or actually paying for the albums. The point is, a great deal of this process stops because of how incomprehensive youtube and spotify are as sources for musical exploration. And for the measly benefit of earning the artist fractions of a penny. /rant On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 3:33 PM, Clint Anderson <clinta@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 224 lines property is theft

> property is theft > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHSH9rUqTpw > > > Clint Anderson > Systems Engineer > > On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 2:30 PM, Jared Dunne <22tape@gmail.com> wrote: > >> piracy is theft. or else, instead of calling it piracy, it'd be called >> "happy free giveaways from people who work their ass off on their art". >> yes, it is that black and white. >> >> On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 1:18 PM, Clint Anderson <clinta@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> heh, not gonna say anything other than that google will provide you with >>> more music sharing 0dayz sites than you will ever be able to shake any >>> number of sticks at >>> >>> personally i enjoy buying records and listening to clicks and pops too >>> much to pirate everything but i do really insist on at least streaming the >>> entire release before i drop what is sometimes as much as $40 on a release >>> (SYRO was $32.99!) >>> >>> im not pro-file-sharing sites i just think its ridiculous that there is >>> a interview process and invites for something that literally couldn't be >>> easier to find or even trip over its so common >>> >>> >>> Clint Anderson >>> Systems Engineer >>> >>> On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 2:08 PM, Connor Higgins < >>> connor1higgins@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Juho: Do you have a good rebuttal to the "ends justifying the means" >>>> argument concerning piracy and its potential benefits? I'm all ears. Let's >>>> just stay away from blatant misrepresentations of each other's views. >>>> >>>> Tris: I'd send you one if I had an invite to give, but unfortunately I >>>> don't. Trackers tend to be rather conservative when handing those out. The >>>> other method is to take the IRC interview and test, which is how I ended up >>>> joining. It's a little tedious (~3 hours or so) but it isn't too difficult >>>> in terms of content. Just know the basic file formats and the like. There's >>>> a number of resources online if you're interested enough. >>>> >>>> On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 12:44 PM, Tristan Strange < >>>> tristan.strange@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Don't know if this is the place to ask but..... >>>>> >>>>> Is any one capable of inviting me to these services? >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Tris >>>>> >>>>> On 20 October 2014 17:15, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> i like to make generalised sweeping statements about an entire >>>>>> industry based on my habits too >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 20 Oct 2014, at 15:56, Esa Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I AM GROOT >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 20 October 2014 16:55, Zombiefly <zombiefly@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> just follow him on facebook. you'll soon get to realise what he >>>>>>> thinks of the music industry and the middleman. Don't get me wrong here, >>>>>>> piracy is bad, my point is that waffles/what.cd caused my music >>>>>>> purchasing to rise, not fall. but then that's just me... do you think that >>>>>>> sites have cause a drop in sales? do you think that the people pirating >>>>>>> would purchase if piracy wasn't an option? i think a small percentage would >>>>>>> but the others would just find some other way of getting music for free.. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 20 October 2014 14:39, Esa J. Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Can You direct us to an interview with A Guy Called Gerald? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from some iDevice. Written by Esa. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> > On 20 Oct 2014, at 15:33, Zombiefly <zombiefly@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > to be fair, spotify and youtube weren't around when i joined OiNK. >>>>>>>> > it's only recently that these services have taken off. I hardly >>>>>>>> use >>>>>>>> > torrents any more, i've purchased all my needs from the past now >>>>>>>> and i >>>>>>>> > continue to buy new stuff on bandcamp etc. It was the music >>>>>>>> industry >>>>>>>> > that failed to respond to the internet, so don't blame OiNKers for >>>>>>>> > creating something to force their hand. Rules are simple, if you >>>>>>>> > download, then purchase from the artist directly. Paying the major >>>>>>>> > companies for anything is even worse. the artist gets virtually >>>>>>>> none >>>>>>>> > of that. Go speak to A Guy Called Gerald and ask him what he >>>>>>>> thinks of >>>>>>>> > the music industry :) >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> >> On 20/10/2014, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >> internet music wankers (tm) >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> “but i wouldnt discover things if i didnt copy them at first” is >>>>>>>> the most >>>>>>>> >> 80s argument i know of. hey we have things like youtube and >>>>>>>> spotify in the >>>>>>>> >> 2000s, hope you’ll join us here, connor.. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >>> On 13 Oct 2014, at 09:13, Esa Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> im bad with ratios and whatnots so i would just go there to >>>>>>>> find comments >>>>>>>> >>> on my own releases. >>>>>>>> >>> that's what i used what.cd for, i think. >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> On 13 October 2014 08:24, Connor Higgins < >>>>>>>> connor1higgins@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> >>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>> Still ethically shaky regardless of accepting that it as such. >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 10:04 PM, Sham Beam < >>>>>>>> sham.beam@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>> it's only a quagmire if you don't want to accept piracy is >>>>>>>> disrespectful. >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> On 10/13/2014 3:22 PM, Connor Higgins wrote: >>>>>>>> >>> If it's anything like what.cd <http://what.cd>, just make sure >>>>>>>> to be >>>>>>>> >>> picky in your selections and seed generously. No need to fill >>>>>>>> requests >>>>>>>> >>> or upload unless you're going overboard with your "purchases". >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> If this ends up turning into one of those rehashed discussions >>>>>>>> on the >>>>>>>> >>> merits and moral qualms associated with pirating music, then >>>>>>>> here are my >>>>>>>> >>> two cents: I wouldn't know 2/3's of the artists I currently >>>>>>>> support >>>>>>>> >>> monetarily if I hadn't nicked some of their work illegally. Do >>>>>>>> the ends >>>>>>>> >>> justify the means? How should I know? Let the ethicists in >>>>>>>> their ivory >>>>>>>> >>> towers navigate that quagmire. I just listen to music. >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 7:59 PM, Sam Loschl < >>>>>>>> watercat1996@gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>> <mailto:watercat1996@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> anybody on waffles? just got an invite, looking for friends >>>>>>>> or any >>>>>>>> >>> advice you'd have for a novice. first private tracker i've >>>>>>>> had the >>>>>>>> >>> opportunity to join >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> sam` >>>>>>>> >>> 808cat >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> -- >>>>>>>> >>> Sham Beam >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > -- >>>>>>>> > _____________________________________________ >>>>>>>> > Sent from my Sinclair ZX Spectrum 48K >>>>>>>> > _____________________________________________ >>>>>>>> > noise I make: >>>>>>>> > http://www.soundcloud.com/pushkin >>>>>>>> > http://www.last.fm/music/Pushkin >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > noise I like: >>>>>>>> > http://www.last.fm/user/zombiefly >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > sites I run: >>>>>>>> > http://www.ctran.co.uk >>>>>>>> > http://o-fu-online.net >>>>>>>> > ------------------------------- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> _____________________________________________ >>>>>>> Sent from my Sinclair ZX Spectrum 48K >>>>>>> _____________________________________________ >>>>>>> noise I make: >>>>>>> http://www.soundcloud.com/pushkin >>>>>>> http://www.last.fm/music/Pushkin >>>>>>> >>>>>>> noise I like: >>>>>>> http://www.last.fm/user/zombiefly >>>>>>> >>>>>>> sites I run: >>>>>>> http://www.ctran.co.uk >>>>>>> http://o-fu-online.net >>>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> 22tape/jared dunne >> listen <http://22tape.com> >> > >

I disagree. I don't think having access to an entire discography at once makes for a better experience when discovering an artist. Also, I like how on YouTube you can cruise around listening to "related" artists in the side bar. I think the process of discovering music on your own somewhat makes for a richer music experience. Trackers and stuff are great for finding rare first pressing vinyl rips of hard/impossible to find or crazy expensive releases. Just my opinion. On Monday, October 20, 2014, Connor Higgins <connor1higgins@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 278 lines Why should I even bother having this conversation when folks like Jared

> Why should I even bother having this conversation when folks like Jared > come in and smash the metaphorical house of cards we've already > established. Yes, Jared: Piracy is a criminal act. What I'm asking is if > piracy is currently aiding the promotion of new and upcoming artists. > > Someone above argued that youtube and spotify should be used instead of > trackers, but I think everyone is aware of the limited scope that these > services can provide. For one, they can barely attest to being better than > pirating, as artists tend to receive little to no compensation per view. > Furthermore, these services tend to omit certain groups, or only feature a > specific subset of an artist's work. Consider someone that's just stumbled > upon Autechre, but youtube or spotify only features Quaristice (Just a > hypothetical). Most fans would agree there are better starting points in > their discography, and having only found this one currently inaccessible > album, our potential fan has written the duo off for good. > > On the other hand, if our potential fan uses a private tracker of sorts, > he or she will find the duo's entire discography at their fingertips. > Having read the reviews posted of albums, he or she can make an informed > first-listening decision, which can potentially galvanize a long-term > fandom, and therefore a monetary investment, be it through concert tickets > or actually paying for the albums. The point is, a great deal of this > process stops because of how incomprehensive youtube and spotify are as > sources for musical exploration. And for the measly benefit of earning the > artist fractions of a penny. > > /rant > > > > > On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 3:33 PM, Clint Anderson <clinta@gmail.com > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','clinta@gmail.com');>> wrote: > >> property is theft >> >> [NOISE] Altemark - Property is Theft >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHSH9rUqTpw> >> >> >> Clint Anderson >> Systems Engineer >> >> On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 2:30 PM, Jared Dunne <22tape@gmail.com >> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','22tape@gmail.com');>> wrote: >> >>> piracy is theft. or else, instead of calling it piracy, it'd be called >>> "happy free giveaways from people who work their ass off on their art". >>> yes, it is that black and white. >>> >>> On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 1:18 PM, Clint Anderson <clinta@gmail.com >>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','clinta@gmail.com');>> wrote: >>> >>>> heh, not gonna say anything other than that google will provide you >>>> with more music sharing 0dayz sites than you will ever be able to shake any >>>> number of sticks at >>>> >>>> personally i enjoy buying records and listening to clicks and pops too >>>> much to pirate everything but i do really insist on at least streaming the >>>> entire release before i drop what is sometimes as much as $40 on a release >>>> (SYRO was $32.99!) >>>> >>>> im not pro-file-sharing sites i just think its ridiculous that there is >>>> a interview process and invites for something that literally couldn't be >>>> easier to find or even trip over its so common >>>> >>>> >>>> Clint Anderson >>>> Systems Engineer >>>> >>>> On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 2:08 PM, Connor Higgins < >>>> connor1higgins@gmail.com >>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','connor1higgins@gmail.com');>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Juho: Do you have a good rebuttal to the "ends justifying the means" >>>>> argument concerning piracy and its potential benefits? I'm all ears. Let's >>>>> just stay away from blatant misrepresentations of each other's views. >>>>> >>>>> Tris: I'd send you one if I had an invite to give, but unfortunately I >>>>> don't. Trackers tend to be rather conservative when handing those out. The >>>>> other method is to take the IRC interview and test, which is how I ended up >>>>> joining. It's a little tedious (~3 hours or so) but it isn't too difficult >>>>> in terms of content. Just know the basic file formats and the like. There's >>>>> a number of resources online if you're interested enough. >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 12:44 PM, Tristan Strange < >>>>> tristan.strange@gmail.com >>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tristan.strange@gmail.com');>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Don't know if this is the place to ask but..... >>>>>> >>>>>> Is any one capable of inviting me to these services? >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Tris >>>>>> >>>>>> On 20 October 2014 17:15, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com >>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','hietala@gmail.com');>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> i like to make generalised sweeping statements about an entire >>>>>>> industry based on my habits too >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 20 Oct 2014, at 15:56, Esa Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com >>>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','esaruoho@gmail.com');>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I AM GROOT >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 20 October 2014 16:55, Zombiefly <zombiefly@gmail.com >>>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','zombiefly@gmail.com');>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> just follow him on facebook. you'll soon get to realise what he >>>>>>>> thinks of the music industry and the middleman. Don't get me wrong here, >>>>>>>> piracy is bad, my point is that waffles/what.cd caused my music >>>>>>>> purchasing to rise, not fall. but then that's just me... do you think that >>>>>>>> sites have cause a drop in sales? do you think that the people pirating >>>>>>>> would purchase if piracy wasn't an option? i think a small percentage would >>>>>>>> but the others would just find some other way of getting music for free.. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 20 October 2014 14:39, Esa J. Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com >>>>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','esaruoho@gmail.com');>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Can You direct us to an interview with A Guy Called Gerald? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from some iDevice. Written by Esa. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > On 20 Oct 2014, at 15:33, Zombiefly <zombiefly@gmail.com >>>>>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','zombiefly@gmail.com');>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > to be fair, spotify and youtube weren't around when i joined >>>>>>>>> OiNK. >>>>>>>>> > it's only recently that these services have taken off. I hardly >>>>>>>>> use >>>>>>>>> > torrents any more, i've purchased all my needs from the past now >>>>>>>>> and i >>>>>>>>> > continue to buy new stuff on bandcamp etc. It was the music >>>>>>>>> industry >>>>>>>>> > that failed to respond to the internet, so don't blame OiNKers >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> > creating something to force their hand. Rules are simple, if you >>>>>>>>> > download, then purchase from the artist directly. Paying the >>>>>>>>> major >>>>>>>>> > companies for anything is even worse. the artist gets virtually >>>>>>>>> none >>>>>>>>> > of that. Go speak to A Guy Called Gerald and ask him what he >>>>>>>>> thinks of >>>>>>>>> > the music industry :) >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> >> On 20/10/2014, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com >>>>>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','hietala@gmail.com');>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >> internet music wankers (tm) >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> >> “but i wouldnt discover things if i didnt copy them at first” >>>>>>>>> is the most >>>>>>>>> >> 80s argument i know of. hey we have things like youtube and >>>>>>>>> spotify in the >>>>>>>>> >> 2000s, hope you’ll join us here, connor.. >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> >>> On 13 Oct 2014, at 09:13, Esa Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com >>>>>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','esaruoho@gmail.com');>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> im bad with ratios and whatnots so i would just go there to >>>>>>>>> find comments >>>>>>>>> >>> on my own releases. >>>>>>>>> >>> that's what i used what.cd for, i think. >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> On 13 October 2014 08:24, Connor Higgins < >>>>>>>>> connor1higgins@gmail.com >>>>>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','connor1higgins@gmail.com');>> >>>>>>>>> >>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>> Still ethically shaky regardless of accepting that it as such. >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 10:04 PM, Sham Beam < >>>>>>>>> sham.beam@gmail.com >>>>>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sham.beam@gmail.com');>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>> it's only a quagmire if you don't want to accept piracy is >>>>>>>>> disrespectful. >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> On 10/13/2014 3:22 PM, Connor Higgins wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>> If it's anything like what.cd <http://what.cd>, just make >>>>>>>>> sure to be >>>>>>>>> >>> picky in your selections and seed generously. No need to fill >>>>>>>>> requests >>>>>>>>> >>> or upload unless you're going overboard with your "purchases". >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> If this ends up turning into one of those rehashed discussions >>>>>>>>> on the >>>>>>>>> >>> merits and moral qualms associated with pirating music, then >>>>>>>>> here are my >>>>>>>>> >>> two cents: I wouldn't know 2/3's of the artists I currently >>>>>>>>> support >>>>>>>>> >>> monetarily if I hadn't nicked some of their work illegally. Do >>>>>>>>> the ends >>>>>>>>> >>> justify the means? How should I know? Let the ethicists in >>>>>>>>> their ivory >>>>>>>>> >>> towers navigate that quagmire. I just listen to music. >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 7:59 PM, Sam Loschl < >>>>>>>>> watercat1996@gmail.com >>>>>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','watercat1996@gmail.com');> >>>>>>>>> >>> <mailto:watercat1996@gmail.com >>>>>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','watercat1996@gmail.com');>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> anybody on waffles? just got an invite, looking for friends >>>>>>>>> or any >>>>>>>>> >>> advice you'd have for a novice. first private tracker i've >>>>>>>>> had the >>>>>>>>> >>> opportunity to join >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> sam` >>>>>>>>> >>> 808cat >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> -- >>>>>>>>> >>> Sham Beam >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > -- >>>>>>>>> > _____________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> > Sent from my Sinclair ZX Spectrum 48K >>>>>>>>> > _____________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> > noise I make: >>>>>>>>> > http://www.soundcloud.com/pushkin >>>>>>>>> > http://www.last.fm/music/Pushkin >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > noise I like: >>>>>>>>> > http://www.last.fm/user/zombiefly >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > sites I run: >>>>>>>>> > http://www.ctran.co.uk >>>>>>>>> > http://o-fu-online.net >>>>>>>>> > ------------------------------- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> _____________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Sent from my Sinclair ZX Spectrum 48K >>>>>>>> _____________________________________________ >>>>>>>> noise I make: >>>>>>>> http://www.soundcloud.com/pushkin >>>>>>>> http://www.last.fm/music/Pushkin >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> noise I like: >>>>>>>> http://www.last.fm/user/zombiefly >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> sites I run: >>>>>>>> http://www.ctran.co.uk >>>>>>>> http://o-fu-online.net >>>>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> 22tape/jared dunne >>> listen <http://22tape.com> >>> >> >> >

Oh. Sorry. I sort of jumped in late, without realizing what was established, and what wasn't established. That said, I'm not interested in metaphors. Nor am I interested in how criminals can help my business. On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 3:04 PM, Justin <ytbmusic@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 276 lines I disagree. I don't think having access to an entire discography at once

> I disagree. I don't think having access to an entire discography at once > makes for a better experience when discovering an artist. Also, I like how > on YouTube you can cruise around listening to "related" artists in the side > bar. I think the process of discovering music on your own somewhat makes > for a richer music experience. Trackers and stuff are great for finding > rare first pressing vinyl rips of hard/impossible to find or crazy > expensive releases. Just my opinion. > > On Monday, October 20, 2014, Connor Higgins <connor1higgins@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Why should I even bother having this conversation when folks like Jared >> come in and smash the metaphorical house of cards we've already >> established. Yes, Jared: Piracy is a criminal act. What I'm asking is if >> piracy is currently aiding the promotion of new and upcoming artists. >> >> Someone above argued that youtube and spotify should be used instead of >> trackers, but I think everyone is aware of the limited scope that these >> services can provide. For one, they can barely attest to being better than >> pirating, as artists tend to receive little to no compensation per view. >> Furthermore, these services tend to omit certain groups, or only feature a >> specific subset of an artist's work. Consider someone that's just stumbled >> upon Autechre, but youtube or spotify only features Quaristice (Just a >> hypothetical). Most fans would agree there are better starting points in >> their discography, and having only found this one currently inaccessible >> album, our potential fan has written the duo off for good. >> >> On the other hand, if our potential fan uses a private tracker of sorts, >> he or she will find the duo's entire discography at their fingertips. >> Having read the reviews posted of albums, he or she can make an informed >> first-listening decision, which can potentially galvanize a long-term >> fandom, and therefore a monetary investment, be it through concert tickets >> or actually paying for the albums. The point is, a great deal of this >> process stops because of how incomprehensive youtube and spotify are as >> sources for musical exploration. And for the measly benefit of earning the >> artist fractions of a penny. >> >> /rant >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 3:33 PM, Clint Anderson <clinta@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> property is theft >>> >>> [NOISE] Altemark - Property is Theft >>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHSH9rUqTpw> >>> >>> >>> Clint Anderson >>> Systems Engineer >>> >>> On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 2:30 PM, Jared Dunne <22tape@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> piracy is theft. or else, instead of calling it piracy, it'd be called >>>> "happy free giveaways from people who work their ass off on their art". >>>> yes, it is that black and white. >>>> >>>> On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 1:18 PM, Clint Anderson <clinta@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> heh, not gonna say anything other than that google will provide you >>>>> with more music sharing 0dayz sites than you will ever be able to shake any >>>>> number of sticks at >>>>> >>>>> personally i enjoy buying records and listening to clicks and pops too >>>>> much to pirate everything but i do really insist on at least streaming the >>>>> entire release before i drop what is sometimes as much as $40 on a release >>>>> (SYRO was $32.99!) >>>>> >>>>> im not pro-file-sharing sites i just think its ridiculous that there >>>>> is a interview process and invites for something that literally couldn't be >>>>> easier to find or even trip over its so common >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Clint Anderson >>>>> Systems Engineer >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 2:08 PM, Connor Higgins < >>>>> connor1higgins@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Juho: Do you have a good rebuttal to the "ends justifying the means" >>>>>> argument concerning piracy and its potential benefits? I'm all ears. Let's >>>>>> just stay away from blatant misrepresentations of each other's views. >>>>>> >>>>>> Tris: I'd send you one if I had an invite to give, but unfortunately >>>>>> I don't. Trackers tend to be rather conservative when handing those out. >>>>>> The other method is to take the IRC interview and test, which is how I >>>>>> ended up joining. It's a little tedious (~3 hours or so) but it isn't too >>>>>> difficult in terms of content. Just know the basic file formats and the >>>>>> like. There's a number of resources online if you're interested enough. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 12:44 PM, Tristan Strange < >>>>>> tristan.strange@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Don't know if this is the place to ask but..... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Is any one capable of inviting me to these services? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Tris >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 20 October 2014 17:15, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> i like to make generalised sweeping statements about an entire >>>>>>>> industry based on my habits too >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 20 Oct 2014, at 15:56, Esa Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I AM GROOT >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 20 October 2014 16:55, Zombiefly <zombiefly@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> just follow him on facebook. you'll soon get to realise what he >>>>>>>>> thinks of the music industry and the middleman. Don't get me wrong here, >>>>>>>>> piracy is bad, my point is that waffles/what.cd caused my music >>>>>>>>> purchasing to rise, not fall. but then that's just me... do you think that >>>>>>>>> sites have cause a drop in sales? do you think that the people pirating >>>>>>>>> would purchase if piracy wasn't an option? i think a small percentage would >>>>>>>>> but the others would just find some other way of getting music for free.. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 20 October 2014 14:39, Esa J. Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Can You direct us to an interview with A Guy Called Gerald? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent from some iDevice. Written by Esa. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> > On 20 Oct 2014, at 15:33, Zombiefly <zombiefly@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > to be fair, spotify and youtube weren't around when i joined >>>>>>>>>> OiNK. >>>>>>>>>> > it's only recently that these services have taken off. I hardly >>>>>>>>>> use >>>>>>>>>> > torrents any more, i've purchased all my needs from the past >>>>>>>>>> now and i >>>>>>>>>> > continue to buy new stuff on bandcamp etc. It was the music >>>>>>>>>> industry >>>>>>>>>> > that failed to respond to the internet, so don't blame OiNKers >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> > creating something to force their hand. Rules are simple, if you >>>>>>>>>> > download, then purchase from the artist directly. Paying the >>>>>>>>>> major >>>>>>>>>> > companies for anything is even worse. the artist gets virtually >>>>>>>>>> none >>>>>>>>>> > of that. Go speak to A Guy Called Gerald and ask him what he >>>>>>>>>> thinks of >>>>>>>>>> > the music industry :) >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> >> On 20/10/2014, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >> internet music wankers (tm) >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> >> "but i wouldnt discover things if i didnt copy them at first" >>>>>>>>>> is the most >>>>>>>>>> >> 80s argument i know of. hey we have things like youtube and >>>>>>>>>> spotify in the >>>>>>>>>> >> 2000s, hope you'll join us here, connor.. >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> >>> On 13 Oct 2014, at 09:13, Esa Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> im bad with ratios and whatnots so i would just go there to >>>>>>>>>> find comments >>>>>>>>>> >>> on my own releases. >>>>>>>>>> >>> that's what i used what.cd for, i think. >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> On 13 October 2014 08:24, Connor Higgins < >>>>>>>>>> connor1higgins@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>> >>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>> Still ethically shaky regardless of accepting that it as such. >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 10:04 PM, Sham Beam < >>>>>>>>>> sham.beam@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>> it's only a quagmire if you don't want to accept piracy is >>>>>>>>>> disrespectful. >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> On 10/13/2014 3:22 PM, Connor Higgins wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>> If it's anything like what.cd <http://what.cd>, just make >>>>>>>>>> sure to be >>>>>>>>>> >>> picky in your selections and seed generously. No need to fill >>>>>>>>>> requests >>>>>>>>>> >>> or upload unless you're going overboard with your "purchases". >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> If this ends up turning into one of those rehashed >>>>>>>>>> discussions on the >>>>>>>>>> >>> merits and moral qualms associated with pirating music, then >>>>>>>>>> here are my >>>>>>>>>> >>> two cents: I wouldn't know 2/3's of the artists I currently >>>>>>>>>> support >>>>>>>>>> >>> monetarily if I hadn't nicked some of their work illegally. >>>>>>>>>> Do the ends >>>>>>>>>> >>> justify the means? How should I know? Let the ethicists in >>>>>>>>>> their ivory >>>>>>>>>> >>> towers navigate that quagmire. I just listen to music. >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 7:59 PM, Sam Loschl < >>>>>>>>>> watercat1996@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>> <mailto:watercat1996@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> anybody on waffles? just got an invite, looking for >>>>>>>>>> friends or any >>>>>>>>>> >>> advice you'd have for a novice. first private tracker i've >>>>>>>>>> had the >>>>>>>>>> >>> opportunity to join >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> sam` >>>>>>>>>> >>> 808cat >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> -- >>>>>>>>>> >>> Sham Beam >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > -- >>>>>>>>>> > _____________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> > Sent from my Sinclair ZX Spectrum 48K >>>>>>>>>> > _____________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> > noise I make: >>>>>>>>>> > http://www.soundcloud.com/pushkin >>>>>>>>>> > http://www.last.fm/music/Pushkin >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > noise I like: >>>>>>>>>> > http://www.last.fm/user/zombiefly >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > sites I run: >>>>>>>>>> > http://www.ctran.co.uk >>>>>>>>>> > http://o-fu-online.net >>>>>>>>>> > ------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> _____________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Sent from my Sinclair ZX Spectrum 48K >>>>>>>>> _____________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> noise I make: >>>>>>>>> http://www.soundcloud.com/pushkin >>>>>>>>> http://www.last.fm/music/Pushkin >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> noise I like: >>>>>>>>> http://www.last.fm/user/zombiefly >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> sites I run: >>>>>>>>> http://www.ctran.co.uk >>>>>>>>> http://o-fu-online.net >>>>>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> 22tape/jared dunne >>>> listen <http://22tape.com> >>>> >>> >>> >>

-- 22tape/jared dunne listen <http://22tape.com>

you’re disgusting, connor. On 20 Oct 2014, at 22:48, Connor Higgins <connor1higgins@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 180 lines Why should I even bother having this conversation when folks like Jared come in and smash

> Why should I even bother having this conversation when folks like Jared come in and smash the metaphorical house of cards we've already established. Yes, Jared: Piracy is a criminal act. What I'm asking is if piracy is currently aiding the promotion of new and upcoming artists. > > Someone above argued that youtube and spotify should be used instead of trackers, but I think everyone is aware of the limited scope that these services can provide. For one, they can barely attest to being better than pirating, as artists tend to receive little to no compensation per view. Furthermore, these services tend to omit certain groups, or only feature a specific subset of an artist's work. Consider someone that's just stumbled upon Autechre, but youtube or spotify only features Quaristice (Just a hypothetical). Most fans would agree there are better starting points in their discography, and having only found this one currently inaccessible album, our potential fan has written the duo off for good. > > On the other hand, if our potential fan uses a private tracker of sorts, he or she will find the duo's entire discography at their fingertips. Having read the reviews posted of albums, he or she can make an informed first-listening decision, which can potentially galvanize a long-term fandom, and therefore a monetary investment, be it through concert tickets or actually paying for the albums. The point is, a great deal of this process stops because of how incomprehensive youtube and spotify are as sources for musical exploration. And for the measly benefit of earning the artist fractions of a penny. > > /rant > > > > > On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 3:33 PM, Clint Anderson <clinta@gmail.com> wrote: > property is theft > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHSH9rUqTpw > > > Clint Anderson > Systems Engineer > > On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 2:30 PM, Jared Dunne <22tape@gmail.com> wrote: > piracy is theft. or else, instead of calling it piracy, it'd be called "happy free giveaways from people who work their ass off on their art". yes, it is that black and white. > > On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 1:18 PM, Clint Anderson <clinta@gmail.com> wrote: > heh, not gonna say anything other than that google will provide you with more music sharing 0dayz sites than you will ever be able to shake any number of sticks at > > personally i enjoy buying records and listening to clicks and pops too much to pirate everything but i do really insist on at least streaming the entire release before i drop what is sometimes as much as $40 on a release (SYRO was $32.99!) > > im not pro-file-sharing sites i just think its ridiculous that there is a interview process and invites for something that literally couldn't be easier to find or even trip over its so common > > > Clint Anderson > Systems Engineer > > On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 2:08 PM, Connor Higgins <connor1higgins@gmail.com> wrote: > Juho: Do you have a good rebuttal to the "ends justifying the means" argument concerning piracy and its potential benefits? I'm all ears. Let's just stay away from blatant misrepresentations of each other's views. > > Tris: I'd send you one if I had an invite to give, but unfortunately I don't. Trackers tend to be rather conservative when handing those out. The other method is to take the IRC interview and test, which is how I ended up joining. It's a little tedious (~3 hours or so) but it isn't too difficult in terms of content. Just know the basic file formats and the like. There's a number of resources online if you're interested enough. > > On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 12:44 PM, Tristan Strange <tristan.strange@gmail.com> wrote: > Don't know if this is the place to ask but..... > > Is any one capable of inviting me to these services? > > Cheers, > Tris > > On 20 October 2014 17:15, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com> wrote: > i like to make generalised sweeping statements about an entire industry based on my habits too > > > On 20 Oct 2014, at 15:56, Esa Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I AM GROOT >> >> >> On 20 October 2014 16:55, Zombiefly <zombiefly@gmail.com> wrote: >> just follow him on facebook. you'll soon get to realise what he thinks of the music industry and the middleman. Don't get me wrong here, piracy is bad, my point is that waffles/what.cd caused my music purchasing to rise, not fall. but then that's just me... do you think that sites have cause a drop in sales? do you think that the people pirating would purchase if piracy wasn't an option? i think a small percentage would but the others would just find some other way of getting music for free.. >> >> >> On 20 October 2014 14:39, Esa J. Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: >> Can You direct us to an interview with A Guy Called Gerald? >> >> Sent from some iDevice. Written by Esa. >> >> > On 20 Oct 2014, at 15:33, Zombiefly <zombiefly@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > to be fair, spotify and youtube weren't around when i joined OiNK. >> > it's only recently that these services have taken off. I hardly use >> > torrents any more, i've purchased all my needs from the past now and i >> > continue to buy new stuff on bandcamp etc. It was the music industry >> > that failed to respond to the internet, so don't blame OiNKers for >> > creating something to force their hand. Rules are simple, if you >> > download, then purchase from the artist directly. Paying the major >> > companies for anything is even worse. the artist gets virtually none >> > of that. Go speak to A Guy Called Gerald and ask him what he thinks of >> > the music industry :) >> > >> > >> >> On 20/10/2014, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> internet music wankers (tm) >> >> >> >> “but i wouldnt discover things if i didnt copy them at first” is the most >> >> 80s argument i know of. hey we have things like youtube and spotify in the >> >> 2000s, hope you’ll join us here, connor.. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On 13 Oct 2014, at 09:13, Esa Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> im bad with ratios and whatnots so i would just go there to find comments >> >>> on my own releases. >> >>> that's what i used what.cd for, i think. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On 13 October 2014 08:24, Connor Higgins <connor1higgins@gmail.com> >> >>> wrote: >> >>> Still ethically shaky regardless of accepting that it as such. >> >>> >> >>> On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 10:04 PM, Sham Beam <sham.beam@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> it's only a quagmire if you don't want to accept piracy is disrespectful. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On 10/13/2014 3:22 PM, Connor Higgins wrote: >> >>> If it's anything like what.cd <http://what.cd>, just make sure to be >> >>> picky in your selections and seed generously. No need to fill requests >> >>> or upload unless you're going overboard with your "purchases". >> >>> >> >>> If this ends up turning into one of those rehashed discussions on the >> >>> merits and moral qualms associated with pirating music, then here are my >> >>> two cents: I wouldn't know 2/3's of the artists I currently support >> >>> monetarily if I hadn't nicked some of their work illegally. Do the ends >> >>> justify the means? How should I know? Let the ethicists in their ivory >> >>> towers navigate that quagmire. I just listen to music. >> >>> >> >>> On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 7:59 PM, Sam Loschl <watercat1996@gmail.com >> >>> <mailto:watercat1996@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> anybody on waffles? just got an invite, looking for friends or any >> >>> advice you'd have for a novice. first private tracker i've had the >> >>> opportunity to join >> >>> >> >>> sam` >> >>> 808cat >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> Sham Beam >> > >> > >> > -- >> > _____________________________________________ >> > Sent from my Sinclair ZX Spectrum 48K >> > _____________________________________________ >> > noise I make: >> > http://www.soundcloud.com/pushkin >> > http://www.last.fm/music/Pushkin >> > >> > noise I like: >> > http://www.last.fm/user/zombiefly >> > >> > sites I run: >> > http://www.ctran.co.uk >> > http://o-fu-online.net >> > ------------------------------- >> >> >> >> -- >> _____________________________________________ >> Sent from my Sinclair ZX Spectrum 48K >> _____________________________________________ >> noise I make: >> http://www.soundcloud.com/pushkin >> http://www.last.fm/music/Pushkin >> >> noise I like: >> http://www.last.fm/user/zombiefly >> >> sites I run: >> http://www.ctran.co.uk >> http://o-fu-online.net >> ------------------------------- >> > > > > > > > > -- > 22tape/jared dunne > listen > >

On 10/21/2014 2:29 PM, Juho Hietala wrote:

quoted 2 lines you’re disgusting, connor.

> you’re disgusting, connor. >

Lol, I think I'm going to illegally download the mediocre music of everyone who has responded to this thread like above just because of how shitty and childish they're being. You all remind me of Benn Jordan when he wrote a novel-length announcement about how piracy was killing his sales and it really needs to stop....except he forgot to set his Oink profile to private, and you could see all 60GB of copyrighted music he had pirated in the last 12 months. Super cool dude. Get off your high horses. Ever looked up and listened to a track on YouTube that was copyrighted and illegally uploaded by a 3rd party user? omg, you pirated, I can't believe you would ever listen to a copyrighted track without paying for it. Every grabbed a track off of soulseek? omg, you're a pirate. Music industry revenue is up, not down. Sales of LP's are up nearly 50%. Paid audio streaming revenue is up more than 50%. Piracy isn't killing anything, if anything it has caused revenue to increase, if you really want to try and draw the shitty causation=correlation conclusions currently being drawn in this thread. I think you're all just mad nobody wants to pay $30 on bandcamp for your super indie bangers http://business.time.com/2013/02/28/revenue-up-piracy-down-has-the-music-industry-finally-turned-a-corner/ -- Jon Sands

The problem with this list, and the internet in general, is that it's full of know-it-alls, who write stupid long declarative thesis' trying to convince people that they're right. "Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it." -- Andre Gide I don't hate people who pirate music. I just hate everyone. Now, download my mediocre shit here: https://soundcloud.com/22tape On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Jon Sands <fohdeesha@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 33 lines On 10/21/2014 2:29 PM, Juho Hietala wrote:

> On 10/21/2014 2:29 PM, Juho Hietala wrote: > > you're disgusting, connor. > > > Lol, I think I'm going to illegally download the mediocre music of > everyone who has responded to this thread like above just because of how > shitty and childish they're being. > > You all remind me of Benn Jordan when he wrote a novel-length announcement > about how piracy was killing his sales and it really needs to > stop....except he forgot to set his Oink profile to private, and you could > see all 60GB of copyrighted music he had pirated in the last 12 months. > Super cool dude. Get off your high horses. Ever looked up and listened to a > track on YouTube that was copyrighted and illegally uploaded by a 3rd party > user? omg, you pirated, I can't believe you would ever listen to a > copyrighted track without paying for it. Every grabbed a track off of > soulseek? omg, you're a pirate. > > Music industry revenue is up, not down. Sales of LP's are up nearly 50%. > Paid audio streaming revenue is up more than 50%. Piracy isn't killing > anything, if anything it has caused revenue to increase, if you really want > to try and draw the shitty causation=correlation conclusions currently > being drawn in this thread. I think you're all just mad nobody wants to pay > $30 on bandcamp for your super indie bangers > > > http://business.time.com/2013/02/28/revenue-up-piracy-down-has-the-music-industry-finally-turned-a-corner/ > > -- > Jon Sands > >

-- 22tape/jared dunne listen <http://22tape.com>

Regardless of anybody's stance on piracy, it is completely clear that file sharing is here to stay and is an obvious market force in the music industry. It will not be stopped. If file sharing somehow affects your current revenue stream in a negative fashion then you need to rethink your business model. There are artists who distribute 100% of their music for free and do quite well for themselves financially. Refusing to accept the reality of the situation, or, worse, deriding and complaining to others about the moral implications is just plain infantile. Markets are amoral. You are not special. Step up your marketing game, play a live show, sell some merch, press some vinyl, get a better agent, improve your product so that more people want to hear it; all very viable things to improve your revenue stream in a post file-sharing music economy. Arguing the moral implications of file sharing is a waste of energy that could be spent elsewhere in a more productive fashion, especially for those who refuse to accept file sharing as the status quo rather than a transient blip in the market that will be magically quelled in the future. On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 12:40 PM, Jared Dunne <22tape@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 52 lines The problem with this list, and the internet in general, is that it's full

> The problem with this list, and the internet in general, is that it's full > of know-it-alls, who write stupid long declarative thesis' trying to > convince people that they're right. > > "Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it." > -- Andre Gide > I don't hate people who pirate music. I just hate everyone. Now, > download my mediocre shit here: > > https://soundcloud.com/22tape > > On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Jon Sands <fohdeesha@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 10/21/2014 2:29 PM, Juho Hietala wrote: >> >> you’re disgusting, connor. >> >> >> Lol, I think I'm going to illegally download the mediocre music of >> everyone who has responded to this thread like above just because of how >> shitty and childish they're being. >> >> You all remind me of Benn Jordan when he wrote a novel-length >> announcement about how piracy was killing his sales and it really needs to >> stop....except he forgot to set his Oink profile to private, and you could >> see all 60GB of copyrighted music he had pirated in the last 12 months. >> Super cool dude. Get off your high horses. Ever looked up and listened to a >> track on YouTube that was copyrighted and illegally uploaded by a 3rd party >> user? omg, you pirated, I can't believe you would ever listen to a >> copyrighted track without paying for it. Every grabbed a track off of >> soulseek? omg, you're a pirate. >> >> Music industry revenue is up, not down. Sales of LP's are up nearly 50%. >> Paid audio streaming revenue is up more than 50%. Piracy isn't killing >> anything, if anything it has caused revenue to increase, if you really want >> to try and draw the shitty causation=correlation conclusions currently >> being drawn in this thread. I think you're all just mad nobody wants to pay >> $30 on bandcamp for your super indie bangers >> >> >> http://business.time.com/2013/02/28/revenue-up-piracy-down-has-the-music-industry-finally-turned-a-corner/ >> >> -- >> Jon Sands >> >> > > > -- > 22tape/jared dunne > listen <http://22tape.com> >

On 21 October 2014 23:22, Dustin Beall <dustin.beall@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 5 lines Step up your marketing game, play a live show, sell some merch, press some

> Step up your marketing game, play a live show, sell some merch, press some > vinyl, get a better agent, improve your product so that more people want to > hear it; all very viable things to improve your revenue stream in a post > file-sharing music economy. >

I actually left some rare Merck & Lackluster vinyl + cds in St. Petersburg after a gig at Fulldozer Fest there in September. We'll see if the distributor there is able to shift them records - there was an ultra-rare Merck Squadron Sampler (yep, the one with the non-Squadron-CD Brothomstates track. that one.) and whatever. Am setting up a mailchimp mailinglist as we speak. Just exported all Lackluster Yahoogroups mailinglist people to it, and discovered that Bandcamp offers Mailchimp integration too - and some sort of export. So, here I am with a 435 person mailinglist - seems like a decent start. Even if half of them bounce, it's still a good place to start. I'm kind of new to all of this, so let's see what happens. btw, you seemed to neglect to mention getting published ( think Aphex Twin and Chrysalis Music Publishing ) - that's supposed to be pretty neat-o too? :) Yours, Esa http://lackluster.bandcamp.com/

sure, but do remember to scrobble it to last.fm so we can get our fame On 21 October 2014 22:28, Jon Sands <fohdeesha@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 33 lines On 10/21/2014 2:29 PM, Juho Hietala wrote:

> On 10/21/2014 2:29 PM, Juho Hietala wrote: > > you're disgusting, connor. > > > Lol, I think I'm going to illegally download the mediocre music of > everyone who has responded to this thread like above just because of how > shitty and childish they're being. > > You all remind me of Benn Jordan when he wrote a novel-length announcement > about how piracy was killing his sales and it really needs to > stop....except he forgot to set his Oink profile to private, and you could > see all 60GB of copyrighted music he had pirated in the last 12 months. > Super cool dude. Get off your high horses. Ever looked up and listened to a > track on YouTube that was copyrighted and illegally uploaded by a 3rd party > user? omg, you pirated, I can't believe you would ever listen to a > copyrighted track without paying for it. Every grabbed a track off of > soulseek? omg, you're a pirate. > > Music industry revenue is up, not down. Sales of LP's are up nearly 50%. > Paid audio streaming revenue is up more than 50%. Piracy isn't killing > anything, if anything it has caused revenue to increase, if you really want > to try and draw the shitty causation=correlation conclusions currently > being drawn in this thread. I think you're all just mad nobody wants to pay > $30 on bandcamp for your super indie bangers > > > http://business.time.com/2013/02/28/revenue-up-piracy-down-has-the-music-industry-finally-turned-a-corner/ > > -- > Jon Sands > >

well aren’t you a charming adult fella. anyone who thinks it’s completely fine to download someone’s music while shunning youtube, spotify et al as “well they’re just going to make a penny out of it” - making this decision NOT to give that penny for the artist - deserves to suck my giant dick. you too, jon. open up wide. On 21 Oct 2014, at 21:28, Jon Sands <fohdeesha@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 14 lines On 10/21/2014 2:29 PM, Juho Hietala wrote:

> On 10/21/2014 2:29 PM, Juho Hietala wrote: >> you’re disgusting, connor. >> > > Lol, I think I'm going to illegally download the mediocre music of everyone who has responded to this thread like above just because of how shitty and childish they're being. > > You all remind me of Benn Jordan when he wrote a novel-length announcement about how piracy was killing his sales and it really needs to stop....except he forgot to set his Oink profile to private, and you could see all 60GB of copyrighted music he had pirated in the last 12 months. Super cool dude. Get off your high horses. Ever looked up and listened to a track on YouTube that was copyrighted and illegally uploaded by a 3rd party user? omg, you pirated, I can't believe you would ever listen to a copyrighted track without paying for it. Every grabbed a track off of soulseek? omg, you're a pirate. > > Music industry revenue is up, not down. Sales of LP's are up nearly 50%. Paid audio streaming revenue is up more than 50%. Piracy isn't killing anything, if anything it has caused revenue to increase, if you really want to try and draw the shitty causation=correlation conclusions currently being drawn in this thread. I think you're all just mad nobody wants to pay $30 on bandcamp for your super indie bangers > > http://business.time.com/2013/02/28/revenue-up-piracy-down-has-the-music-industry-finally-turned-a-corner/ > > -- > Jon Sands

Juho, I want to thank you. Your well crafted argument has truly opened my eyes to the atrocities I commit on a daily basis. You have my sincere gratitude. Please tell me how I can exhibit proper respect to other people. On Oct 21, 2014 5:53 PM, "Juho Hietala" <hietala@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 45 lines well aren’t you a charming adult fella.

> well aren’t you a charming adult fella. > > anyone who thinks it’s completely fine to download someone’s music while > shunning youtube, spotify et al as “well they’re just going to make a penny > out of it” - making this decision NOT to give that penny for the artist - > deserves to suck my giant dick. you too, jon. open up wide. > > > > On 21 Oct 2014, at 21:28, Jon Sands <fohdeesha@gmail.com> wrote: > > On 10/21/2014 2:29 PM, Juho Hietala wrote: > > you’re disgusting, connor. > > > Lol, I think I'm going to illegally download the mediocre music of > everyone who has responded to this thread like above just because of how > shitty and childish they're being. > > You all remind me of Benn Jordan when he wrote a novel-length announcement > about how piracy was killing his sales and it really needs to > stop....except he forgot to set his Oink profile to private, and you could > see all 60GB of copyrighted music he had pirated in the last 12 months. > Super cool dude. Get off your high horses. Ever looked up and listened to a > track on YouTube that was copyrighted and illegally uploaded by a 3rd party > user? omg, you pirated, I can't believe you would ever listen to a > copyrighted track without paying for it. Every grabbed a track off of > soulseek? omg, you're a pirate. > > Music industry revenue is up, not down. Sales of LP's are up nearly 50%. > Paid audio streaming revenue is up more than 50%. Piracy isn't killing > anything, if anything it has caused revenue to increase, if you really want > to try and draw the shitty causation=correlation conclusions currently > being drawn in this thread. I think you're all just mad nobody wants to pay > $30 on bandcamp for your super indie bangers > > > http://business.time.com/2013/02/28/revenue-up-piracy-down-has-the-music-industry-finally-turned-a-corner/ > > -- > Jon Sands > > >

o-k On 22 Oct 2014, at 00:20, Connor Higgins <connor1higgins@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 26 lines Juho, I want to thank you. Your well crafted argument has truly opened my eyes to the atro

> Juho, I want to thank you. Your well crafted argument has truly opened my eyes to the atrocities I commit on a daily basis. You have my sincere gratitude. Please tell me how I can exhibit proper respect to other people. > > On Oct 21, 2014 5:53 PM, "Juho Hietala" <hietala@gmail.com> wrote: > well aren’t you a charming adult fella. > > anyone who thinks it’s completely fine to download someone’s music while shunning youtube, spotify et al as “well they’re just going to make a penny out of it” - making this decision NOT to give that penny for the artist - deserves to suck my giant dick. you too, jon. open up wide. > > > > On 21 Oct 2014, at 21:28, Jon Sands <fohdeesha@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 10/21/2014 2:29 PM, Juho Hietala wrote: >>> you’re disgusting, connor. >>> >> >> Lol, I think I'm going to illegally download the mediocre music of everyone who has responded to this thread like above just because of how shitty and childish they're being. >> >> You all remind me of Benn Jordan when he wrote a novel-length announcement about how piracy was killing his sales and it really needs to stop....except he forgot to set his Oink profile to private, and you could see all 60GB of copyrighted music he had pirated in the last 12 months. Super cool dude. Get off your high horses. Ever looked up and listened to a track on YouTube that was copyrighted and illegally uploaded by a 3rd party user? omg, you pirated, I can't believe you would ever listen to a copyrighted track without paying for it. Every grabbed a track off of soulseek? omg, you're a pirate. >> >> Music industry revenue is up, not down. Sales of LP's are up nearly 50%. Paid audio streaming revenue is up more than 50%. Piracy isn't killing anything, if anything it has caused revenue to increase, if you really want to try and draw the shitty causation=correlation conclusions currently being drawn in this thread. I think you're all just mad nobody wants to pay $30 on bandcamp for your super indie bangers >> >> http://business.time.com/2013/02/28/revenue-up-piracy-down-has-the-music-industry-finally-turned-a-corner/ >> >> -- >> Jon Sands >

On 10/21/2014 5:52 PM, Juho Hietala wrote:

quoted 3 lines well aren’t you a charming adult fella.

> well aren’t you a charming adult fella. > suck my giant dick. you too, jon. open up wide. >

Oh, the irony. I think the last person I know that felt the need to play up his sex organ on the internet turned out to be a 12 year old. I just pirated your entire discography (what.cd's one click disco feature is amazing). Skipped through it, meh, I can see why you need to talk about your dong. It's ok though, different strokes for different folks. -- Jon Sands

well, to be honest, i think the joke’s on you here.. On 22 Oct 2014, at 01:06, Jon Sands <fohdeesha@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 10 lines On 10/21/2014 5:52 PM, Juho Hietala wrote:

> On 10/21/2014 5:52 PM, Juho Hietala wrote: >> well aren’t you a charming adult fella. >> suck my giant dick. you too, jon. open up wide. >> > > Oh, the irony. I think the last person I know that felt the need to play up his sex organ on the internet turned out to be a 12 year old. > > I just pirated your entire discography (what.cd's one click disco feature is amazing). Skipped through it, meh, I can see why you need to talk about your dong. It's ok though, different strokes for different folks. > -- > Jon Sands

LOLLLLL *breathes deeply* LOL Remember how I was saying in my first post, the people yelling the loudest about how awful piracy is and how it should NEVER be done are usually the ones doing it to their own benefit? And how Juho called more than a few people "disgusting" for admitting to downloading a couple albums? Well, here's a screenshot of some of the copyrighted albums Juho has torrented. I count around 115 total, and that's before he got banned. Nice job! - http://i.imgur.com/rYQAqaf.png So, Juho, anything else you'd like to be hilariously hypocritical about? Or is this one of those things that's only OK when you do it, but awful when we do? On 10/21/2014 7:08 PM, Juho Hietala wrote:

quoted 2 lines well, to be honest, i think the joke’s on you here..

> well, to be honest, i think the joke’s on you here.. >

-- Jon Sands

yep, this was years ago before there was spotify or other viable means to listen to stuff. i’m not denying it. but did you also notice i’ve uploaded several of my own albums to these sites? when you’re done lolling you can still consider the point i made to you a few emails ago. On 22 Oct 2014, at 01:15, Jon Sands <fohdeesha@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 17 lines LOLLLLL *breathes deeply* LOL

> LOLLLLL *breathes deeply* LOL > > Remember how I was saying in my first post, the people yelling the loudest about how awful piracy is and how it should NEVER be done are usually the ones doing it to their own benefit? And how Juho called more than a few people "disgusting" for admitting to downloading a couple albums? > > Well, here's a screenshot of some of the copyrighted albums Juho has torrented. I count around 115 total, and that's before he got banned. Nice job! - http://i.imgur.com/rYQAqaf.png > > So, Juho, anything else you'd like to be hilariously hypocritical about? Or is this one of those things that's only OK when you do it, but awful when we do? > > > > On 10/21/2014 7:08 PM, Juho Hietala wrote: >> well, to be honest, i think the joke’s on you here.. >> > > -- > Jon Sands >

Hasn't everyone had this conversation before? Everyone pirates music. That doesn't make it any less cool and disrespectful towards the artists we pirate. Perhaps the music industry will evolve to a point where this isn't such an issue in the future. On 10/22/2014 10:18 AM, Juho Hietala wrote:

quoted 25 lines yep, this was years ago before there was spotify or other viable means to listen to stuff.

> yep, this was years ago before there was spotify or other viable means to listen to stuff. i’m not denying it. but did you also notice i’ve uploaded several of my own albums to these sites? > > when you’re done lolling you can still consider the point i made to you a few emails ago. > > > On 22 Oct 2014, at 01:15, Jon Sands <fohdeesha@gmail.com> wrote: > >> LOLLLLL *breathes deeply* LOL >> >> Remember how I was saying in my first post, the people yelling the loudest about how awful piracy is and how it should NEVER be done are usually the ones doing it to their own benefit? And how Juho called more than a few people "disgusting" for admitting to downloading a couple albums? >> >> Well, here's a screenshot of some of the copyrighted albums Juho has torrented. I count around 115 total, and that's before he got banned. Nice job! - http://i.imgur.com/rYQAqaf.png >> >> So, Juho, anything else you'd like to be hilariously hypocritical about? Or is this one of those things that's only OK when you do it, but awful when we do? >> >> >> >> On 10/21/2014 7:08 PM, Juho Hietala wrote: >>> well, to be honest, i think the joke’s on you here.. >>> >> >> -- >> Jon Sands >> >

-- Sham Beam

yeah uh I dunno why it’s an issue that I’ve used a torrent site in the past when the point I was pretty clearly making is that if someone thinks torrenting is superior than giving an artist a few pennies, that someone is a fucking idiot. i have never ever said that. i probably know more than connor or jon how today all the fucking pennies matter. On 22 Oct 2014, at 00:28, Sham Beam <sham.beam@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 38 lines Hasn't everyone had this conversation before? Everyone pirates music. That doesn'

> Hasn't everyone had this conversation before? Everyone pirates music. That doesn't make it any less cool and disrespectful towards the artists we pirate. Perhaps the music industry will evolve to a point where this isn't such an issue in the future. > > > > > > On 10/22/2014 10:18 AM, Juho Hietala wrote: >> yep, this was years ago before there was spotify or other viable means to listen to stuff. i’m not denying it. but did you also notice i’ve uploaded several of my own albums to these sites? >> >> when you’re done lolling you can still consider the point i made to you a few emails ago. >> >> >> On 22 Oct 2014, at 01:15, Jon Sands <fohdeesha@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> LOLLLLL *breathes deeply* LOL >>> >>> Remember how I was saying in my first post, the people yelling the loudest about how awful piracy is and how it should NEVER be done are usually the ones doing it to their own benefit? And how Juho called more than a few people "disgusting" for admitting to downloading a couple albums? >>> >>> Well, here's a screenshot of some of the copyrighted albums Juho has torrented. I count around 115 total, and that's before he got banned. Nice job! - http://i.imgur.com/rYQAqaf.png >>> >>> So, Juho, anything else you'd like to be hilariously hypocritical about? Or is this one of those things that's only OK when you do it, but awful when we do? >>> >>> >>> >>> On 10/21/2014 7:08 PM, Juho Hietala wrote: >>>> well, to be honest, i think the joke’s on you here.. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Jon Sands >>> >> > > > -- > Sham Beam > >

No that's all fine and good Juho. You can't claim the moral high ground as an individual however, which you very blatantly have been doing for the past several replies. On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 7:30 PM, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 63 lines yeah uh I dunno why it’s an issue that I’ve used a torrent site in the

> yeah uh I dunno why it’s an issue that I’ve used a torrent site in the > past when the point I was pretty clearly making is that if someone thinks > torrenting is superior than giving an artist a few pennies, that someone is > a fucking idiot. i have never ever said that. i probably know more than > connor or jon how today all the fucking pennies matter. > > > > On 22 Oct 2014, at 00:28, Sham Beam <sham.beam@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hasn't everyone had this conversation before? Everyone pirates music. > That doesn't make it any less cool and disrespectful towards the artists we > pirate. Perhaps the music industry will evolve to a point where this isn't > such an issue in the future. > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/22/2014 10:18 AM, Juho Hietala wrote: > >> yep, this was years ago before there was spotify or other viable means > to listen to stuff. i’m not denying it. but did you also notice i’ve > uploaded several of my own albums to these sites? > >> > >> when you’re done lolling you can still consider the point i made to you > a few emails ago. > >> > >> > >> On 22 Oct 2014, at 01:15, Jon Sands <fohdeesha@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >>> LOLLLLL *breathes deeply* LOL > >>> > >>> Remember how I was saying in my first post, the people yelling the > loudest about how awful piracy is and how it should NEVER be done are > usually the ones doing it to their own benefit? And how Juho called more > than a few people "disgusting" for admitting to downloading a couple albums? > >>> > >>> Well, here's a screenshot of some of the copyrighted albums Juho has > torrented. I count around 115 total, and that's before he got banned. Nice > job! - http://i.imgur.com/rYQAqaf.png > >>> > >>> So, Juho, anything else you'd like to be hilariously hypocritical > about? Or is this one of those things that's only OK when you do it, but > awful when we do? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On 10/21/2014 7:08 PM, Juho Hietala wrote: > >>>> well, to be honest, i think the joke’s on you here.. > >>>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Jon Sands > >>> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Sham Beam > > > > > >

i’m not claiming any moral high ground. i’m saying that argument is illogical, ie. fucking moronic. that’s what i’ve been saying all the time, and why i’m disgusted that you feel like you can make decisions on artists’ sources of income. On 22 Oct 2014, at 01:32, Connor Higgins <connor1higgins@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 49 lines No that's all fine and good Juho. You can't claim the moral high ground as an in

> No that's all fine and good Juho. You can't claim the moral high ground as an individual however, which you very blatantly have been doing for the past several replies. > > On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 7:30 PM, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com> wrote: > yeah uh I dunno why it’s an issue that I’ve used a torrent site in the past when the point I was pretty clearly making is that if someone thinks torrenting is superior than giving an artist a few pennies, that someone is a fucking idiot. i have never ever said that. i probably know more than connor or jon how today all the fucking pennies matter. > > > > On 22 Oct 2014, at 00:28, Sham Beam <sham.beam@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hasn't everyone had this conversation before? Everyone pirates music. That doesn't make it any less cool and disrespectful towards the artists we pirate. Perhaps the music industry will evolve to a point where this isn't such an issue in the future. > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/22/2014 10:18 AM, Juho Hietala wrote: > >> yep, this was years ago before there was spotify or other viable means to listen to stuff. i’m not denying it. but did you also notice i’ve uploaded several of my own albums to these sites? > >> > >> when you’re done lolling you can still consider the point i made to you a few emails ago. > >> > >> > >> On 22 Oct 2014, at 01:15, Jon Sands <fohdeesha@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >>> LOLLLLL *breathes deeply* LOL > >>> > >>> Remember how I was saying in my first post, the people yelling the loudest about how awful piracy is and how it should NEVER be done are usually the ones doing it to their own benefit? And how Juho called more than a few people "disgusting" for admitting to downloading a couple albums? > >>> > >>> Well, here's a screenshot of some of the copyrighted albums Juho has torrented. I count around 115 total, and that's before he got banned. Nice job! - http://i.imgur.com/rYQAqaf.png > >>> > >>> So, Juho, anything else you'd like to be hilariously hypocritical about? Or is this one of those things that's only OK when you do it, but awful when we do? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On 10/21/2014 7:08 PM, Juho Hietala wrote: > >>>> well, to be honest, i think the joke’s on you here.. > >>>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Jon Sands > >>> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Sham Beam > > > > > >

Then let me be very clear what I am saying: I am not justifying my torrenting, but merely stating the effect of my torrenting. That's essentially a rehash of my first reply to this damn thread. On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 7:34 PM, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 80 lines i’m not claiming any moral high ground. i’m saying that argument is

> i’m not claiming any moral high ground. i’m saying that argument is > illogical, ie. fucking moronic. that’s what i’ve been saying all the time, > and why i’m disgusted that you feel like you can make decisions on artists’ > sources of income. > > > > On 22 Oct 2014, at 01:32, Connor Higgins <connor1higgins@gmail.com> wrote: > > No that's all fine and good Juho. You can't claim the moral high ground as > an individual however, which you very blatantly have been doing for the > past several replies. > > On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 7:30 PM, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com> wrote: > >> yeah uh I dunno why it’s an issue that I’ve used a torrent site in the >> past when the point I was pretty clearly making is that if someone thinks >> torrenting is superior than giving an artist a few pennies, that someone is >> a fucking idiot. i have never ever said that. i probably know more than >> connor or jon how today all the fucking pennies matter. >> >> >> >> On 22 Oct 2014, at 00:28, Sham Beam <sham.beam@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > Hasn't everyone had this conversation before? Everyone pirates music. >> That doesn't make it any less cool and disrespectful towards the artists we >> pirate. Perhaps the music industry will evolve to a point where this isn't >> such an issue in the future. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On 10/22/2014 10:18 AM, Juho Hietala wrote: >> >> yep, this was years ago before there was spotify or other viable means >> to listen to stuff. i’m not denying it. but did you also notice i’ve >> uploaded several of my own albums to these sites? >> >> >> >> when you’re done lolling you can still consider the point i made to >> you a few emails ago. >> >> >> >> >> >> On 22 Oct 2014, at 01:15, Jon Sands <fohdeesha@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >>> LOLLLLL *breathes deeply* LOL >> >>> >> >>> Remember how I was saying in my first post, the people yelling the >> loudest about how awful piracy is and how it should NEVER be done are >> usually the ones doing it to their own benefit? And how Juho called more >> than a few people "disgusting" for admitting to downloading a couple albums? >> >>> >> >>> Well, here's a screenshot of some of the copyrighted albums Juho has >> torrented. I count around 115 total, and that's before he got banned. Nice >> job! - http://i.imgur.com/rYQAqaf.png >> >>> >> >>> So, Juho, anything else you'd like to be hilariously hypocritical >> about? Or is this one of those things that's only OK when you do it, but >> awful when we do? >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On 10/21/2014 7:08 PM, Juho Hietala wrote: >> >>>> well, to be honest, i think the joke’s on you here.. >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> Jon Sands >> >>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Sham Beam >> > >> > >> >> > >

honestly, i dunno why you acknowledging your behaviour should be a reason to not question it. that just does not make sense. i think it’s pretty clear you don’t have the whole picture here and it did make me angry that you responded by ridiculing the person that called you out on it - and the fact that you present your behaviour as something everyone should just accept because you acknowledge it. the fact that i’m being blatantly blunt is just an extension of my frustration on your acknowledged ‘effect’, and how it seems to be the same with every person that sticks with private torrent sites even when there’s no actual fan based need for most of them to exist these days. we, the artists, NEED those pennies as the democratisation of music has driven everyone’s overall sales down. If you actually look at the numbers instead of blindly quoting them, you’ll see that the tail we’re all in here is much, much… MUCH longer than ever. On 22 Oct 2014, at 01:37, Connor Higgins <connor1higgins@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 60 lines Then let me be very clear what I am saying: I am not justifying my torrenting, but merely

> Then let me be very clear what I am saying: I am not justifying my torrenting, but merely stating the effect of my torrenting. That's essentially a rehash of my first reply to this damn thread. > > On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 7:34 PM, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com> wrote: > i’m not claiming any moral high ground. i’m saying that argument is illogical, ie. fucking moronic. that’s what i’ve been saying all the time, and why i’m disgusted that you feel like you can make decisions on artists’ sources of income. > > > > On 22 Oct 2014, at 01:32, Connor Higgins <connor1higgins@gmail.com> wrote: > >> No that's all fine and good Juho. You can't claim the moral high ground as an individual however, which you very blatantly have been doing for the past several replies. >> >> On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 7:30 PM, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com> wrote: >> yeah uh I dunno why it’s an issue that I’ve used a torrent site in the past when the point I was pretty clearly making is that if someone thinks torrenting is superior than giving an artist a few pennies, that someone is a fucking idiot. i have never ever said that. i probably know more than connor or jon how today all the fucking pennies matter. >> >> >> >> On 22 Oct 2014, at 00:28, Sham Beam <sham.beam@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > Hasn't everyone had this conversation before? Everyone pirates music. That doesn't make it any less cool and disrespectful towards the artists we pirate. Perhaps the music industry will evolve to a point where this isn't such an issue in the future. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On 10/22/2014 10:18 AM, Juho Hietala wrote: >> >> yep, this was years ago before there was spotify or other viable means to listen to stuff. i’m not denying it. but did you also notice i’ve uploaded several of my own albums to these sites? >> >> >> >> when you’re done lolling you can still consider the point i made to you a few emails ago. >> >> >> >> >> >> On 22 Oct 2014, at 01:15, Jon Sands <fohdeesha@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >>> LOLLLLL *breathes deeply* LOL >> >>> >> >>> Remember how I was saying in my first post, the people yelling the loudest about how awful piracy is and how it should NEVER be done are usually the ones doing it to their own benefit? And how Juho called more than a few people "disgusting" for admitting to downloading a couple albums? >> >>> >> >>> Well, here's a screenshot of some of the copyrighted albums Juho has torrented. I count around 115 total, and that's before he got banned. Nice job! - http://i.imgur.com/rYQAqaf.png >> >>> >> >>> So, Juho, anything else you'd like to be hilariously hypocritical about? Or is this one of those things that's only OK when you do it, but awful when we do? >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On 10/21/2014 7:08 PM, Juho Hietala wrote: >> >>>> well, to be honest, i think the joke’s on you here.. >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> Jon Sands >> >>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Sham Beam >> > >> > >> >> > >

You're going to have to have another go at stating your point, because frankly that whole essay is an utter shit-show. Start with that first sentence. On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 7:46 PM, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 110 lines honestly, i dunno why you acknowledging your behaviour should be a reason

> honestly, i dunno why you acknowledging your behaviour should be a reason > to not question it. that just does not make sense. > > i think it’s pretty clear you don’t have the whole picture here and it did > make me angry that you responded by ridiculing the person that called you > out on it - and the fact that you present your behaviour as something > everyone should just accept because you acknowledge it. > > the fact that i’m being blatantly blunt is just an extension of my > frustration on your acknowledged ‘effect’, and how it seems to be the same > with every person that sticks with private torrent sites even when there’s > no actual fan based need for most of them to exist these days. we, the > artists, NEED those pennies as the democratisation of music has driven > everyone’s overall sales down. If you actually look at the numbers instead > of blindly quoting them, you’ll see that the tail we’re all in here is > much, much… MUCH longer than ever. > > > > On 22 Oct 2014, at 01:37, Connor Higgins <connor1higgins@gmail.com> wrote: > > Then let me be very clear what I am saying: I am not justifying my > torrenting, but merely stating the effect of my torrenting. That's > essentially a rehash of my first reply to this damn thread. > > On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 7:34 PM, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com> wrote: > >> i’m not claiming any moral high ground. i’m saying that argument is >> illogical, ie. fucking moronic. that’s what i’ve been saying all the time, >> and why i’m disgusted that you feel like you can make decisions on artists’ >> sources of income. >> >> >> >> On 22 Oct 2014, at 01:32, Connor Higgins <connor1higgins@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> No that's all fine and good Juho. You can't claim the moral high ground >> as an individual however, which you very blatantly have been doing for the >> past several replies. >> >> On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 7:30 PM, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> yeah uh I dunno why it’s an issue that I’ve used a torrent site in the >>> past when the point I was pretty clearly making is that if someone thinks >>> torrenting is superior than giving an artist a few pennies, that someone is >>> a fucking idiot. i have never ever said that. i probably know more than >>> connor or jon how today all the fucking pennies matter. >>> >>> >>> >>> On 22 Oct 2014, at 00:28, Sham Beam <sham.beam@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> > Hasn't everyone had this conversation before? Everyone pirates music. >>> That doesn't make it any less cool and disrespectful towards the artists we >>> pirate. Perhaps the music industry will evolve to a point where this isn't >>> such an issue in the future. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > On 10/22/2014 10:18 AM, Juho Hietala wrote: >>> >> yep, this was years ago before there was spotify or other viable >>> means to listen to stuff. i’m not denying it. but did you also notice i’ve >>> uploaded several of my own albums to these sites? >>> >> >>> >> when you’re done lolling you can still consider the point i made to >>> you a few emails ago. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> On 22 Oct 2014, at 01:15, Jon Sands <fohdeesha@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> LOLLLLL *breathes deeply* LOL >>> >>> >>> >>> Remember how I was saying in my first post, the people yelling the >>> loudest about how awful piracy is and how it should NEVER be done are >>> usually the ones doing it to their own benefit? And how Juho called more >>> than a few people "disgusting" for admitting to downloading a couple albums? >>> >>> >>> >>> Well, here's a screenshot of some of the copyrighted albums Juho has >>> torrented. I count around 115 total, and that's before he got banned. Nice >>> job! - http://i.imgur.com/rYQAqaf.png >>> >>> >>> >>> So, Juho, anything else you'd like to be hilariously hypocritical >>> about? Or is this one of those things that's only OK when you do it, but >>> awful when we do? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 10/21/2014 7:08 PM, Juho Hietala wrote: >>> >>>> well, to be honest, i think the joke’s on you here.. >>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Jon Sands >>> >>> >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Sham Beam >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >> >> > >

k On 22 Oct 2014, at 01:52, Connor Higgins <connor1higgins@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 75 lines You're going to have to have another go at stating your point, because frankly that w

> You're going to have to have another go at stating your point, because frankly that whole essay is an utter shit-show. Start with that first sentence. > > On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 7:46 PM, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com> wrote: > honestly, i dunno why you acknowledging your behaviour should be a reason to not question it. that just does not make sense. > > i think it’s pretty clear you don’t have the whole picture here and it did make me angry that you responded by ridiculing the person that called you out on it - and the fact that you present your behaviour as something everyone should just accept because you acknowledge it. > > the fact that i’m being blatantly blunt is just an extension of my frustration on your acknowledged ‘effect’, and how it seems to be the same with every person that sticks with private torrent sites even when there’s no actual fan based need for most of them to exist these days. we, the artists, NEED those pennies as the democratisation of music has driven everyone’s overall sales down. If you actually look at the numbers instead of blindly quoting them, you’ll see that the tail we’re all in here is much, much… MUCH longer than ever. > > > > On 22 Oct 2014, at 01:37, Connor Higgins <connor1higgins@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Then let me be very clear what I am saying: I am not justifying my torrenting, but merely stating the effect of my torrenting. That's essentially a rehash of my first reply to this damn thread. >> >> On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 7:34 PM, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com> wrote: >> i’m not claiming any moral high ground. i’m saying that argument is illogical, ie. fucking moronic. that’s what i’ve been saying all the time, and why i’m disgusted that you feel like you can make decisions on artists’ sources of income. >> >> >> >> On 22 Oct 2014, at 01:32, Connor Higgins <connor1higgins@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> No that's all fine and good Juho. You can't claim the moral high ground as an individual however, which you very blatantly have been doing for the past several replies. >>> >>> On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 7:30 PM, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com> wrote: >>> yeah uh I dunno why it’s an issue that I’ve used a torrent site in the past when the point I was pretty clearly making is that if someone thinks torrenting is superior than giving an artist a few pennies, that someone is a fucking idiot. i have never ever said that. i probably know more than connor or jon how today all the fucking pennies matter. >>> >>> >>> >>> On 22 Oct 2014, at 00:28, Sham Beam <sham.beam@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> > Hasn't everyone had this conversation before? Everyone pirates music. That doesn't make it any less cool and disrespectful towards the artists we pirate. Perhaps the music industry will evolve to a point where this isn't such an issue in the future. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > On 10/22/2014 10:18 AM, Juho Hietala wrote: >>> >> yep, this was years ago before there was spotify or other viable means to listen to stuff. i’m not denying it. but did you also notice i’ve uploaded several of my own albums to these sites? >>> >> >>> >> when you’re done lolling you can still consider the point i made to you a few emails ago. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> On 22 Oct 2014, at 01:15, Jon Sands <fohdeesha@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> LOLLLLL *breathes deeply* LOL >>> >>> >>> >>> Remember how I was saying in my first post, the people yelling the loudest about how awful piracy is and how it should NEVER be done are usually the ones doing it to their own benefit? And how Juho called more than a few people "disgusting" for admitting to downloading a couple albums? >>> >>> >>> >>> Well, here's a screenshot of some of the copyrighted albums Juho has torrented. I count around 115 total, and that's before he got banned. Nice job! - http://i.imgur.com/rYQAqaf.png >>> >>> >>> >>> So, Juho, anything else you'd like to be hilariously hypocritical about? Or is this one of those things that's only OK when you do it, but awful when we do? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 10/21/2014 7:08 PM, Juho Hietala wrote: >>> >>>> well, to be honest, i think the joke’s on you here.. >>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Jon Sands >>> >>> >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Sham Beam >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >> >> > >

Come on y'all On Oct 21, 2014 8:08 PM, "Juho Hietala" <hietala@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 124 lines k

> k > > > On 22 Oct 2014, at 01:52, Connor Higgins <connor1higgins@gmail.com> wrote: > > You're going to have to have another go at stating your point, because > frankly that whole essay is an utter shit-show. Start with that first > sentence. > > On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 7:46 PM, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com> wrote: > >> honestly, i dunno why you acknowledging your behaviour should be a reason >> to not question it. that just does not make sense. >> >> i think it’s pretty clear you don’t have the whole picture here and it >> did make me angry that you responded by ridiculing the person that called >> you out on it - and the fact that you present your behaviour as something >> everyone should just accept because you acknowledge it. >> >> the fact that i’m being blatantly blunt is just an extension of my >> frustration on your acknowledged ‘effect’, and how it seems to be the same >> with every person that sticks with private torrent sites even when there’s >> no actual fan based need for most of them to exist these days. we, the >> artists, NEED those pennies as the democratisation of music has driven >> everyone’s overall sales down. If you actually look at the numbers instead >> of blindly quoting them, you’ll see that the tail we’re all in here is >> much, much… MUCH longer than ever. >> >> >> >> On 22 Oct 2014, at 01:37, Connor Higgins <connor1higgins@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> Then let me be very clear what I am saying: I am not justifying my >> torrenting, but merely stating the effect of my torrenting. That's >> essentially a rehash of my first reply to this damn thread. >> >> On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 7:34 PM, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> i’m not claiming any moral high ground. i’m saying that argument is >>> illogical, ie. fucking moronic. that’s what i’ve been saying all the time, >>> and why i’m disgusted that you feel like you can make decisions on artists’ >>> sources of income. >>> >>> >>> >>> On 22 Oct 2014, at 01:32, Connor Higgins <connor1higgins@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> No that's all fine and good Juho. You can't claim the moral high ground >>> as an individual however, which you very blatantly have been doing for the >>> past several replies. >>> >>> On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 7:30 PM, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> yeah uh I dunno why it’s an issue that I’ve used a torrent site in the >>>> past when the point I was pretty clearly making is that if someone thinks >>>> torrenting is superior than giving an artist a few pennies, that someone is >>>> a fucking idiot. i have never ever said that. i probably know more than >>>> connor or jon how today all the fucking pennies matter. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 22 Oct 2014, at 00:28, Sham Beam <sham.beam@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> > Hasn't everyone had this conversation before? Everyone pirates music. >>>> That doesn't make it any less cool and disrespectful towards the artists we >>>> pirate. Perhaps the music industry will evolve to a point where this isn't >>>> such an issue in the future. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > On 10/22/2014 10:18 AM, Juho Hietala wrote: >>>> >> yep, this was years ago before there was spotify or other viable >>>> means to listen to stuff. i’m not denying it. but did you also notice i’ve >>>> uploaded several of my own albums to these sites? >>>> >> >>>> >> when you’re done lolling you can still consider the point i made to >>>> you a few emails ago. >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> On 22 Oct 2014, at 01:15, Jon Sands <fohdeesha@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >>> LOLLLLL *breathes deeply* LOL >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Remember how I was saying in my first post, the people yelling the >>>> loudest about how awful piracy is and how it should NEVER be done are >>>> usually the ones doing it to their own benefit? And how Juho called more >>>> than a few people "disgusting" for admitting to downloading a couple albums? >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Well, here's a screenshot of some of the copyrighted albums Juho >>>> has torrented. I count around 115 total, and that's before he got banned. >>>> Nice job! - http://i.imgur.com/rYQAqaf.png >>>> >>> >>>> >>> So, Juho, anything else you'd like to be hilariously hypocritical >>>> about? Or is this one of those things that's only OK when you do it, but >>>> awful when we do? >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> On 10/21/2014 7:08 PM, Juho Hietala wrote: >>>> >>>> well, to be honest, i think the joke’s on you here.. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> -- >>>> >>> Jon Sands >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > Sham Beam >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > >

On 10/21/2014 8:09 PM, Levin Ostapeck wrote:

quoted 3 lines Come on y'all

> > Come on y'all >

let's breakdanceee https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsX0kb2xpTg&wide -- Jon Sands Fohdeesha Media http://fohdeesha.com/

* It's stealing * People are going to do it * Neither trying to tell people it's not stealing or trying to tell people not to do it is going to make any difference

quoted 9 lines On 10/21/2014 8:09 PM, Levin Ostapeck wrote:

> On 10/21/2014 8:09 PM, Levin Ostapeck wrote: >> >> Come on y'all >> > > let's breakdanceee > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsX0kb2xpTg&wide >

True, i'm ultra tired of the conversation. i don't think i would been on the mailing list if it hadn't been for lurking the dark corners of what.cd It does such a good job of archiving and browsing How can you hate on preservation, go sell some weed while you make your music On Oct 21, 2014, at 3:28 PM, Sham Beam <sham.beam@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 38 lines Hasn't everyone had this conversation before? Everyone pirates music. That doesn'

> Hasn't everyone had this conversation before? Everyone pirates music. That doesn't make it any less cool and disrespectful towards the artists we pirate. Perhaps the music industry will evolve to a point where this isn't such an issue in the future. > > > > > > On 10/22/2014 10:18 AM, Juho Hietala wrote: >> yep, this was years ago before there was spotify or other viable means to listen to stuff. i’m not denying it. but did you also notice i’ve uploaded several of my own albums to these sites? >> >> when you’re done lolling you can still consider the point i made to you a few emails ago. >> >> >> On 22 Oct 2014, at 01:15, Jon Sands <fohdeesha@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> LOLLLLL *breathes deeply* LOL >>> >>> Remember how I was saying in my first post, the people yelling the loudest about how awful piracy is and how it should NEVER be done are usually the ones doing it to their own benefit? And how Juho called more than a few people "disgusting" for admitting to downloading a couple albums? >>> >>> Well, here's a screenshot of some of the copyrighted albums Juho has torrented. I count around 115 total, and that's before he got banned. Nice job! - http://i.imgur.com/rYQAqaf.png >>> >>> So, Juho, anything else you'd like to be hilariously hypocritical about? Or is this one of those things that's only OK when you do it, but awful when we do? >>> >>> >>> >>> On 10/21/2014 7:08 PM, Juho Hietala wrote: >>>> well, to be honest, i think the joke’s on you here.. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Jon Sands >>> >> > > > -- > Sham Beam > >

This is what streaming royalties look like for strong, well-known artists. Especially check out the math on Pandora, where Camper Van Beethoven made about $19 on over one million plays. http://www.aux.tv/2014/02/x-royalty-cheques-thatll-make-lose-faith-music-industry/ On Oct 21, 2014 4:33 PM, "David Elder" <davidrelder@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 63 lines True, i'm ultra tired of the conversation.

> True, i'm ultra tired of the conversation. > i don't think i would been on the mailing list > if it hadn't been for lurking the dark corners of what.cd > It does such a good job of archiving and browsing > How can you hate on preservation, go sell some weed while you make your > music > > > On Oct 21, 2014, at 3:28 PM, Sham Beam <sham.beam@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hasn't everyone had this conversation before? Everyone pirates music. > That doesn't make it any less cool and disrespectful towards the artists we > pirate. Perhaps the music industry will evolve to a point where this isn't > such an issue in the future. > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/22/2014 10:18 AM, Juho Hietala wrote: > >> yep, this was years ago before there was spotify or other viable means > to listen to stuff. i’m not denying it. but did you also notice i’ve > uploaded several of my own albums to these sites? > >> > >> when you’re done lolling you can still consider the point i made to you > a few emails ago. > >> > >> > >> On 22 Oct 2014, at 01:15, Jon Sands <fohdeesha@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >>> LOLLLLL *breathes deeply* LOL > >>> > >>> Remember how I was saying in my first post, the people yelling the > loudest about how awful piracy is and how it should NEVER be done are > usually the ones doing it to their own benefit? And how Juho called more > than a few people "disgusting" for admitting to downloading a couple albums? > >>> > >>> Well, here's a screenshot of some of the copyrighted albums Juho has > torrented. I count around 115 total, and that's before he got banned. Nice > job! - http://i.imgur.com/rYQAqaf.png > >>> > >>> So, Juho, anything else you'd like to be hilariously hypocritical > about? Or is this one of those things that's only OK when you do it, but > awful when we do? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On 10/21/2014 7:08 PM, Juho Hietala wrote: > >>>> well, to be honest, i think the joke’s on you here.. > >>>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Jon Sands > >>> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Sham Beam > > > > > >

HAHA dude, you have absolutely no reason to talk right now. 115... wow. On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 7:18 PM, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 36 lines yep, this was years ago before there was spotify or other viable means to

> yep, this was years ago before there was spotify or other viable means to > listen to stuff. i’m not denying it. but did you also notice i’ve uploaded > several of my own albums to these sites? > > when you’re done lolling you can still consider the point i made to you a > few emails ago. > > > On 22 Oct 2014, at 01:15, Jon Sands <fohdeesha@gmail.com> wrote: > > > LOLLLLL *breathes deeply* LOL > > > > Remember how I was saying in my first post, the people yelling the > loudest about how awful piracy is and how it should NEVER be done are > usually the ones doing it to their own benefit? And how Juho called more > than a few people "disgusting" for admitting to downloading a couple albums? > > > > Well, here's a screenshot of some of the copyrighted albums Juho has > torrented. I count around 115 total, and that's before he got banned. Nice > job! - http://i.imgur.com/rYQAqaf.png > > > > So, Juho, anything else you'd like to be hilariously hypocritical about? > Or is this one of those things that's only OK when you do it, but awful > when we do? > > > > > > > > On 10/21/2014 7:08 PM, Juho Hietala wrote: > >> well, to be honest, i think the joke’s on you here.. > >> > > > > -- > > Jon Sands > > > >

On 10/21/2014 7:48 AM, Connor Higgins wrote:

quoted 5 lines Why should I even bother having this conversation when folks like Jared

> Why should I even bother having this conversation when folks like Jared > come in and smash the metaphorical house of cards we've already > established. Yes, Jared: Piracy is a criminal act. What I'm asking is if > piracy is currently aiding the promotion of new and upcoming artists. >

So what if it does? Those new artists have chosen not to distribute their music via torrents and file sharing sites. Most people think of themselves as good and moral. I think attempts to rationalize piracy as something that ultimately helps artists is more likely a way for pirates to reconcile their knowledge that they are doing something against someones will with being a moral person. If you met your favorite muso in a bar would you mention you downloaded their entire discography?

Then how do you explain artists who give away all of their music for free? They'd be quite pleased that I possess all of their music. Do those artists not count in the moral abacus you are so quick to tally? What would be the tipping point where you would consider file sharing to no longer be "immoral" and simply consider it "the way most music is now disseminated"? I understand all artists want to have the freedom to determine the value of their creations however when your medium is infinitely reproducable and impossible to regulate ...I wouldn't put too much stock into its profitability unless it is something many, many people want. Given the astounding number of artists who offer their wares as "pay what you want" (Including $0) on Bandcamp, (Or how about this old chestnut <http://www.wisp.kaen.org/>) as well as many who may not offer their music for free but do not mind the free publicity, I struggle to grasp how this is a black and white issue. I have seen firsthand artists swelling their fan base through the use of file sharing, or by simply hosting a place where fans can go to download most of if not all of their music. I have seen these people succeed. Your quip regarding "rationalization" echos the sentiments of a musician ill-prepared to succeed in the modern music economy, or perhaps simply a bitterness towards change, which is not terribly uncommon. Clearly we can all agree that copy infringement is illegal - although it appears that's where the agreement ends. The nature of how information is disseminated is rapidly changing. I'm certainly not advocating that people not try to monetize their efforts, however I find it silly that people still tow the moral line, insisting that somehow our world would be a better place without file sharing. If your product is desired by others they will most certainly share it with others if they are able. Perhaps you want that, perhaps you don't. To believe you have been cheated or deprived of something because enough people noticed what you were doing and shared it is obstinate in this day and age. It is much more a sign of success and future opportunity for those with the foresight to take advantage of it. Once again I'll say: Markets are amoral. On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 4:45 PM, Sham Beam <sham.beam@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 22 lines On 10/21/2014 7:48 AM, Connor Higgins wrote:

> On 10/21/2014 7:48 AM, Connor Higgins wrote: > >> Why should I even bother having this conversation when folks like Jared >> come in and smash the metaphorical house of cards we've already >> established. Yes, Jared: Piracy is a criminal act. What I'm asking is if >> piracy is currently aiding the promotion of new and upcoming artists. >> >> > So what if it does? Those new artists have chosen not to distribute their > music via torrents and file sharing sites. > > Most people think of themselves as good and moral. I think attempts to > rationalize piracy as something that ultimately helps artists is more > likely a way for pirates to reconcile their knowledge that they are doing > something against someones will with being a moral person. > > If you met your favorite muso in a bar would you mention you downloaded > their entire discography? > > > >

Sham, I remember Luke Vibert saying to The effect that that is exactly what People mention to him at The drop of a hat. Luke Vibert. Sent from some iDevice. Written by Esa.

quoted 6 lines On 22 Oct 2014, at 02:45, Sham Beam <sham.beam@gmail.com> wrote:.

> On 22 Oct 2014, at 02:45, Sham Beam <sham.beam@gmail.com> wrote:. > > If you met your favorite muso in a bar would you mention you downloaded their entire discography? > > >

Guys, just so you know, there's a "scene" that has been around since the beginning of the internet that pirates and spreads everything digital. Big ftp servers (called top sites) that are used to spread teams' releases. It's the source of everything you can find on torrent. It's been 10 years I'm a part of it. Believe me it won't stop, everyday there's like between 10 and 20 Go of music being pirated (and i'm not talking about the other sections - movies, games, apps...). I have to admit that it's also been 10yrs everyday I check the mp3 section and do my little selection. But you know what? every damn time I stumbled upon an artist that moved me, I bought his stuff and I advise my friend to have a listen. it's just that simple. Piracy is bad, but without it, lots of artists wouldn't be here. let's say that music is life, but since we've made it an industry, I find it logical that piracy comes along, like usual with everything related to money... troll spotted cheersBeber.

quoted 17 lines CC: idm@hyperreal.org

> CC: idm@hyperreal.org > From: esaruoho@gmail.com > Subject: Re: waffles > Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 08:59:11 +0300 > To: sham.beam@gmail.com > > Sham, I remember Luke Vibert saying to The effect that that is exactly what People mention to him at The drop of a hat. > Luke Vibert. > > Sent from some iDevice. Written by Esa. > > > On 22 Oct 2014, at 02:45, Sham Beam <sham.beam@gmail.com> wrote:. > > > > If you met your favorite muso in a bar would you mention you downloaded their entire discography? > > > > > >

Correct me if i'm wrong, but Luke Vibert took over other people's music before he ever got a chance to get pirated. Now of course, that's a different story – or not ? On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 7:59 AM, Esa J. Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 14 lines Sham, I remember Luke Vibert saying to The effect that that is exactly

> Sham, I remember Luke Vibert saying to The effect that that is exactly > what People mention to him at The drop of a hat. > Luke Vibert. > > Sent from some iDevice. Written by Esa. > > > On 22 Oct 2014, at 02:45, Sham Beam <sham.beam@gmail.com> wrote:. > > > > If you met your favorite muso in a bar would you mention you downloaded > their entire discography? > > > > > > >

This is like a can of worms type discussion that just doesn't stop. What, we've moved from Torrent piracy to sampling, is it illegal, should it be allowed, what if it shouldn't be. when is sampling a sample piracy, when is it theft, .... and .... when is it arson? --- http://lackluster.bandcamp.com http://lackluster.org http://esaruoho.tumblr.com iPhone: +358403703659

quoted 17 lines On 22 Oct 2014, at 16:55, Laurent Knauth <laurent.knauth@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 22 Oct 2014, at 16:55, Laurent Knauth <laurent.knauth@gmail.com> wrote: > > Correct me if i'm wrong, but Luke Vibert took over other people's music before he ever got a chance to get pirated. > Now of course, that's a different story – or not ? > > On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 7:59 AM, Esa J. Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com <mailto:esaruoho@gmail.com>> wrote: > Sham, I remember Luke Vibert saying to The effect that that is exactly what People mention to him at The drop of a hat. > Luke Vibert. > > Sent from some iDevice. Written by Esa. > > > On 22 Oct 2014, at 02:45, Sham Beam <sham.beam@gmail.com <mailto:sham.beam@gmail.com>> wrote:. > > > > If you met your favorite muso in a bar would you mention you downloaded their entire discography? > > > > > >

onsdag 22 oktober 2014 skrev Esa Juhani Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com>:

quoted 3 lines when is [a sample] arson?

> > when is [a sample] arson? >

http://youtu.be/F1U0qvtQnE8 -- constant shallowness leads to evil.

stumbled upon this guy yesterday... https://soundcloud.com/astronautico/illusion-of-seclusion never heard of him but really digging it

I suppose it is great that in this realm of music there is freedom for each of us to move within the moral compass we define for ourselves. David Newman dwnewman@clara.co.uk www.audiobulb.com | exploratory music www.audiomoves.com | music sync specialist On 22 Oct 2014, at 17:15, kawayama <kawayama@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 12 lines onsdag 22 oktober 2014 skrev Esa Juhani Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com>:

> > > onsdag 22 oktober 2014 skrev Esa Juhani Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com>: > > when is [a sample] arson? > > http://youtu.be/F1U0qvtQnE8 > > > -- > > constant shallowness leads to evil.

As Sham said, «*people think of themselves as good and moral*». This is how i might see myself for eating veggy, but definitely not as being «urban» — i eat organic but have a unecological way of life, having a cellphone (even though it's a cheap one that i almost never use) and a computer assembled by poor people for the antipodes ; on top of that, i'm French and as such, taking advantage of «Françafrique», even though i'm not responsible for it and find it more than regrettable. Now, sorry if my contribution seemed a little provocative, but then piracy concerns appear subjective and insoluble to me — until some legal package ultimately gets the afterword, like it happened with sampling. Yet, even though it finally has a legal framework, the legitimacy of sampling remains hard to define to me so far. In one case, i'm tempted to think that sampling a whole bar is going too far, but then of course it depends on who does it and how. On the other end, some people think that even sampling a snaredrum «only» is already stealing, because recording this snaredrum required a whole life of abnegation. Like many people here, i'm hoping to make some music that deserves some «commercial» release one day. And like many people here, i'm listening to illegal music a lot, which i generally don't like so i have no problem about it. Sure, there are Youtube, Spotify and other «legal»-likes which i also use an awful lot, but many «serious» people see them as the fatal blow dragging down the music industry. Until Universal Music trully deserves its name — i.e. they'd stream about each and every existing music catalog on earth —, maybe only lossless audio should be forbidden ? On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 3:58 PM, Esa Juhani Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 43 lines This is like a can of worms type discussion that just doesn't stop.

> This is like a can of worms type discussion that just doesn't stop. > > What, we've moved from Torrent piracy to sampling, is it illegal, should > it be allowed, what if it shouldn't be. when is sampling a sample piracy, > when is it theft, > .... > and > .... > when is it arson? > > > > > --- > http://lackluster.bandcamp.com > http://lackluster.org > http://esaruoho.tumblr.com > iPhone: +358403703659 > > On 22 Oct 2014, at 16:55, Laurent Knauth <laurent.knauth@gmail.com> wrote: > > Correct me if i'm wrong, but Luke Vibert took over other people's music > before he ever got a chance to get pirated. > Now of course, that's a different story – or not ? > > On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 7:59 AM, Esa J. Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Sham, I remember Luke Vibert saying to The effect that that is exactly >> what People mention to him at The drop of a hat. >> Luke Vibert. >> >> Sent from some iDevice. Written by Esa. >> >> > On 22 Oct 2014, at 02:45, Sham Beam <sham.beam@gmail.com> wrote:. >> > >> > If you met your favorite muso in a bar would you mention you downloaded >> their entire discography? >> > >> > >> > >> > >

"I'm going to steal a vacuum. If I like it, I'll go buy another one because I feel like supporting the people that made it."-- said no one ever Just because music, books, movies are digital, and easily stolen, shouldn't make it a justifiable crime. And, as a way of life, I've never been one who thinks much of the idea that: I know it's probably not right. But I can't help to change it. So I'll just go with the rest of the sheep. I'll just push that guilt so deep down that not only does it become non-existent, it'll also become a source of pride for my ignorance. If this is considered being on a "high horse", giddyup bitches. On Oct 22, 2014 1:38 PM, "Laurent Knauth" <laurent.knauth@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 78 lines As Sham said, <<*people think of themselves as good and moral*>>. This is

> As Sham said, <<*people think of themselves as good and moral*>>. This is > how i might see myself for eating veggy, but definitely not as being > <<urban>> -- i eat organic but have a unecological way of life, having a > cellphone (even though it's a cheap one that i almost never use) and a > computer assembled by poor people for the antipodes ; on top of that, i'm > French and as such, taking advantage of <<Françafrique>>, even though i'm not > responsible for it and find it more than regrettable. > > Now, sorry if my contribution seemed a little provocative, but then piracy > concerns appear subjective and insoluble to me -- until some legal package > ultimately gets the afterword, like it happened with sampling. > > Yet, even though it finally has a legal framework, the legitimacy of > sampling remains hard to define to me so far. In one case, i'm tempted to > think that sampling a whole bar is going too far, but then of course it > depends on who does it and how. On the other end, some people think that > even sampling a snaredrum <<only>> is already stealing, because recording > this snaredrum required a whole life of abnegation. > > Like many people here, i'm hoping to make some music that deserves some > <<commercial>> release one day. > And like many people here, i'm listening to illegal music a lot, which i > generally don't like so i have no problem about it. > Sure, there are Youtube, Spotify and other <<legal>>-likes which i also use > an awful lot, but many <<serious>> people see them as the fatal blow dragging > down the music industry. > > Until Universal Music trully deserves its name -- i.e. they'd stream about > each and every existing music catalog on earth --, maybe only lossless audio > should be forbidden ? > > On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 3:58 PM, Esa Juhani Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> This is like a can of worms type discussion that just doesn't stop. >> >> What, we've moved from Torrent piracy to sampling, is it illegal, should >> it be allowed, what if it shouldn't be. when is sampling a sample piracy, >> when is it theft, >> .... >> and >> .... >> when is it arson? >> >> >> >> >> --- >> http://lackluster.bandcamp.com >> http://lackluster.org >> http://esaruoho.tumblr.com >> iPhone: +358403703659 >> >> On 22 Oct 2014, at 16:55, Laurent Knauth <laurent.knauth@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> Correct me if i'm wrong, but Luke Vibert took over other people's music >> before he ever got a chance to get pirated. >> Now of course, that's a different story - or not ? >> >> On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 7:59 AM, Esa J. Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Sham, I remember Luke Vibert saying to The effect that that is exactly >>> what People mention to him at The drop of a hat. >>> Luke Vibert. >>> >>> Sent from some iDevice. Written by Esa. >>> >>> > On 22 Oct 2014, at 02:45, Sham Beam <sham.beam@gmail.com> wrote:. >>> > >>> > If you met your favorite muso in a bar would you mention you >>> downloaded their entire discography? >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >> >>

On 10/22/2014 3:08 PM, Jared Dunne wrote:

quoted 5 lines "I'm going to steal a vacuum. If I like it, I'll go buy another one

> > "I'm going to steal a vacuum. If I like it, I'll go buy another one > because I feel like supporting the people that made it."-- said no one > ever >

lol. "YOU WOULDN'T DOWNLOAD A CAR" http://questioncopyright.org/cm/images/piracy-is-not-theft.jpg -- Jon Sands

I would definitely download a car, if it was a Tesla Model S. --- http://lackluster.bandcamp.com http://lackluster.org http://esaruoho.tumblr.com iPhone: +358403703659

quoted 14 lines On 22 Oct 2014, at 22:15, Jon Sands <fohdeesha@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 22 Oct 2014, at 22:15, Jon Sands <fohdeesha@gmail.com> wrote: > > On 10/22/2014 3:08 PM, Jared Dunne wrote: >> >> "I'm going to steal a vacuum. If I like it, I'll go buy another one because I feel like supporting the people that made it."-- said no one ever >> > > lol. "YOU WOULDN'T DOWNLOAD A CAR" > > http://questioncopyright.org/cm/images/piracy-is-not-theft.jpg > > -- > Jon Sands >

On 10/22/2014 3:15 PM, Esa Juhani Ruoho wrote:

quoted 2 lines I would definitely download a car, if it was a Tesla Model S.

> I would definitely download a car, if it was a Tesla Model S. >

Same https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALZZx1xmAzg&wide -- Jon Sands Fohdeesha Media http://fohdeesha.com/

okay, if the vacuum analogy doesn't work, that's fine. my point is: As a way of life, I've never been one who thinks much of the idea that: I know it's probably not right. But I can't help to change it. So I'll just go with the rest of the sheep. I'll just push that guilt so deep down that not only does it become non-existent, it'll also become a source of pride for my ignorance. If this is considered being on a "high horse", giddyup On Oct 22, 2014 2:21 PM, "Jon Sands" <fohdeesha@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 14 lines On 10/22/2014 3:15 PM, Esa Juhani Ruoho wrote:

> On 10/22/2014 3:15 PM, Esa Juhani Ruoho wrote: > > I would definitely download a car, if it was a Tesla Model S. > > > Same > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALZZx1xmAzg&wide > > -- > Jon Sands > Fohdeesha Mediahttp://fohdeesha.com/ > >

yes, IT Crowd is a tv-series --- http://lackluster.bandcamp.com http://lackluster.org http://esaruoho.tumblr.com iPhone: +358403703659

quoted 13 lines On 22 Oct 2014, at 22:21, Jon Sands <fohdeesha@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 22 Oct 2014, at 22:21, Jon Sands <fohdeesha@gmail.com> wrote: > > On 10/22/2014 3:15 PM, Esa Juhani Ruoho wrote: >> I would definitely download a car, if it was a Tesla Model S. >> > > Same > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALZZx1xmAzg&wide <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALZZx1xmAzg&wide> > -- > Jon Sands > Fohdeesha Media > http://fohdeesha.com/ <http://fohdeesha.com/>

On 10/22/2014 3:22 PM, Esa Juhani Ruoho wrote:

quoted 1 line yes, IT Crowd is a tv-series

> yes, IT Crowd is a tv-series

A hilarious one :) not excited about the American remake.... -- Jon Sands

Oh, the beautiful human trait of deflection. On Oct 22, 2014 2:24 PM, "Jon Sands" <fohdeesha@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 13 lines On 10/22/2014 3:22 PM, Esa Juhani Ruoho wrote:

> On 10/22/2014 3:22 PM, Esa Juhani Ruoho wrote: > > yes, IT Crowd is a tv-series > > > A hilarious one :) > > not excited about the American remake.... > > -- > Jon Sands > >

set your deflectors to stun! --- http://lackluster.bandcamp.com http://lackluster.org http://esaruoho.tumblr.com iPhone: +358403703659

quoted 13 lines On 22 Oct 2014, at 22:31, Jared Dunne <22tape@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 22 Oct 2014, at 22:31, Jared Dunne <22tape@gmail.com> wrote: > > Oh, the beautiful human trait of deflection. > > On Oct 22, 2014 2:24 PM, "Jon Sands" <fohdeesha@gmail.com <mailto:fohdeesha@gmail.com>> wrote: > On 10/22/2014 3:22 PM, Esa Juhani Ruoho wrote: >> yes, IT Crowd is a tv-series > > A hilarious one :) > > not excited about the American remake.... > -- > Jon Sands

♫This is the thread that never ends. It goes on and on my friends.♫ On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 12:31 PM, Esa Juhani Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 27 lines set your deflectors to stun!

> set your deflectors to stun! > > --- > http://lackluster.bandcamp.com > http://lackluster.org > http://esaruoho.tumblr.com > iPhone: +358403703659 > > On 22 Oct 2014, at 22:31, Jared Dunne <22tape@gmail.com> wrote: > > Oh, the beautiful human trait of deflection. > On Oct 22, 2014 2:24 PM, "Jon Sands" <fohdeesha@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 10/22/2014 3:22 PM, Esa Juhani Ruoho wrote: >> >> yes, IT Crowd is a tv-series >> >> >> A hilarious one :) >> >> not excited about the American remake.... >> >> -- >> Jon Sands >> >> >

guys, mailchimp is pretty neat! --- http://lackluster.bandcamp.com http://lackluster.org http://esaruoho.tumblr.com iPhone: +358403703659

quoted 27 lines On 22 Oct 2014, at 22:34, Connor Higgins <connor1higgins@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 22 Oct 2014, at 22:34, Connor Higgins <connor1higgins@gmail.com> wrote: > > ♫This is the thread that never ends. It goes on and on my friends.♫ > > On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 12:31 PM, Esa Juhani Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com <mailto:esaruoho@gmail.com>> wrote: > set your deflectors to stun! > > --- > http://lackluster.bandcamp.com <http://lackluster.bandcamp.com/> > http://lackluster.org <http://lackluster.org/> > http://esaruoho.tumblr.com <http://esaruoho.tumblr.com/> > iPhone: +358403703659 <tel:%2B358403703659> >> On 22 Oct 2014, at 22:31, Jared Dunne <22tape@gmail.com <mailto:22tape@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> Oh, the beautiful human trait of deflection. >> >> On Oct 22, 2014 2:24 PM, "Jon Sands" <fohdeesha@gmail.com <mailto:fohdeesha@gmail.com>> wrote: >> On 10/22/2014 3:22 PM, Esa Juhani Ruoho wrote: >>> yes, IT Crowd is a tv-series >> >> A hilarious one :) >> >> not excited about the American remake.... >> -- >> Jon Sands > >

honestly i've seen nothing worth the time spent typing words in this whole thing other than maybe the enjoyment i get at seeing how much of a douchebag this juho guy is. this is the most anger i've had end up in my inbox since my grandfather wrote me to tell me how much he hated rush limbaugh if you're that affected by pirating, go fund one of the hundreds of lobbying groups around the whole world. i'm sure they'd love your donations. as it stands, my music got way more exposure once people could download it online that i could do the whole "offer album for free yet still have option to pay" and my wallet gets fat anyway. well, fat being relative, but i'm making more than i was before when it comes down to it. haven't pirated in years thanks to spotify premium; the albums that spotify doesn't have access to are ones that i inevitably have already purchased at one time or another. if $9.99/mo breaks the bank and you've got an internet connection steady enough to pirate anything, you might want to re-evaluate your financial standing On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 12:31 PM, Esa Juhani Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 26 lines set your deflectors to stun!

> set your deflectors to stun! > > --- > http://lackluster.bandcamp.com > http://lackluster.org > http://esaruoho.tumblr.com > iPhone: +358403703659 > > On 22 Oct 2014, at 22:31, Jared Dunne <22tape@gmail.com> wrote: > > Oh, the beautiful human trait of deflection. > On Oct 22, 2014 2:24 PM, "Jon Sands" <fohdeesha@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 10/22/2014 3:22 PM, Esa Juhani Ruoho wrote: >> >> yes, IT Crowd is a tv-series >> >> >> A hilarious one :) >> >> not excited about the American remake.... >> >> -- >> Jon Sands >> >>

remember to go pirate my full discog too, jackass On 22 Oct 2014, at 21:39, Zack Murray <zack.ffstudios@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 30 lines honestly i've seen nothing worth the time spent typing words in this whole thing othe

> honestly i've seen nothing worth the time spent typing words in this whole thing other than maybe the enjoyment i get at seeing how much of a douchebag this juho guy is. this is the most anger i've had end up in my inbox since my grandfather wrote me to tell me how much he hated rush limbaugh > > if you're that affected by pirating, go fund one of the hundreds of lobbying groups around the whole world. i'm sure they'd love your donations. as it stands, my music got way more exposure once people could download it online that i could do the whole "offer album for free yet still have option to pay" and my wallet gets fat anyway. well, fat being relative, but i'm making more than i was before when it comes down to it. > > haven't pirated in years thanks to spotify premium; the albums that spotify doesn't have access to are ones that i inevitably have already purchased at one time or another. if $9.99/mo breaks the bank and you've got an internet connection steady enough to pirate anything, you might want to re-evaluate your financial standing > > > On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 12:31 PM, Esa Juhani Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: > set your deflectors to stun! > > --- > http://lackluster.bandcamp.com > http://lackluster.org > http://esaruoho.tumblr.com > iPhone: +358403703659 > >> On 22 Oct 2014, at 22:31, Jared Dunne <22tape@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Oh, the beautiful human trait of deflection. >> >> On Oct 22, 2014 2:24 PM, "Jon Sands" <fohdeesha@gmail.com> wrote: >> On 10/22/2014 3:22 PM, Esa Juhani Ruoho wrote: >>> yes, IT Crowd is a tv-series >> >> A hilarious one :) >> >> not excited about the American remake.... >> -- >> Jon Sands >

i wonder if this would hold up in court as explicit consent from the artist haha On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 2:14 PM, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 25 lines remember to go pirate my full discog too, jackass

> remember to go pirate my full discog too, jackass > > > On 22 Oct 2014, at 21:39, Zack Murray <zack.ffstudios@gmail.com> wrote: > > honestly i've seen nothing worth the time spent typing words in this whole > thing other than maybe the enjoyment i get at seeing how much of a > douchebag this juho guy is. this is the most anger i've had end up in my > inbox since my grandfather wrote me to tell me how much he hated rush > limbaugh > > if you're that affected by pirating, go fund one of the hundreds of > lobbying groups around the whole world. i'm sure they'd love your > donations. as it stands, my music got way more exposure once people could > download it online that i could do the whole "offer album for free yet > still have option to pay" and my wallet gets fat anyway. well, fat being > relative, but i'm making more than i was before when it comes down to it. > > haven't pirated in years thanks to spotify premium; the albums that > spotify doesn't have access to are ones that i inevitably have already > purchased at one time or another. if $9.99/mo breaks the bank and you've > got an internet connection steady enough to pirate anything, you might want > to re-evaluate your financial standing > >

"would you steal a [physical object]?" yes its pretty obvious that almost everyone except the morally righteous warriors of light will steal anything and everything they can regardless of their affluence or poverty, why are you even asking this question, what is its relevance to the conversation? people can will and do steal everything they can even things they can afford, all your music (all of you) can be pirated for free, everyone buying your music knows this and chooses to give you the money because they want you to continue to produce more music, a purely selfish aim. literally everyone on earth can pirate aphex twin's music, yet somehow he has a house and five studios and enough money that all he has to do is write music all day and can even turn down gigs that arent, as he put it "stupid money gigs", people tell him stupid shit like "i downloaded your entire discography", there is in fact an interview where he said he saw someone on the street selling DVDRs with his entire discography on them for like $5, you're going to tell me now, that everyone who has ever bought his music buys it because its immoral to steal, or because they can't pirate it? i just don't believe it... Clint Anderson Systems Engineer On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 2:31 PM, Esa Juhani Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 27 lines set your deflectors to stun!

> set your deflectors to stun! > > --- > http://lackluster.bandcamp.com > http://lackluster.org > http://esaruoho.tumblr.com > iPhone: +358403703659 > > On 22 Oct 2014, at 22:31, Jared Dunne <22tape@gmail.com> wrote: > > Oh, the beautiful human trait of deflection. > On Oct 22, 2014 2:24 PM, "Jon Sands" <fohdeesha@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 10/22/2014 3:22 PM, Esa Juhani Ruoho wrote: >> >> yes, IT Crowd is a tv-series >> >> >> A hilarious one :) >> >> not excited about the American remake.... >> >> -- >> Jon Sands >> >> >

topical https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8veXrYh1cc Clint Anderson Systems Engineer On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 2:41 PM, Clint Anderson <clinta@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 56 lines "would you steal a [physical object]?"

> > "would you steal a [physical object]?" > yes its pretty obvious that almost everyone except the morally righteous > warriors of light will steal anything and everything they can regardless of > their affluence or poverty, why are you even asking this question, what is > its relevance to the conversation? > people can will and do steal everything they can even things they can > afford, all your music (all of you) can be pirated for free, everyone > buying your music knows this and chooses to give you the money because they > want you to continue to produce more music, a purely selfish aim. > literally everyone on earth can pirate aphex twin's music, yet somehow he > has a house and five studios and enough money that all he has to do is > write music all day and can even turn down gigs that arent, as he put it > "stupid money gigs", people tell him stupid shit like "i downloaded your > entire discography", there is in fact an interview where he said he saw > someone on the street selling DVDRs with his entire discography on them for > like $5, you're going to tell me now, that everyone who has ever bought his > music buys it because its immoral to steal, or because they can't pirate > it? i just don't believe it... > > > > Clint Anderson > Systems Engineer > > On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 2:31 PM, Esa Juhani Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> set your deflectors to stun! >> >> --- >> http://lackluster.bandcamp.com >> http://lackluster.org >> http://esaruoho.tumblr.com >> iPhone: +358403703659 >> >> On 22 Oct 2014, at 22:31, Jared Dunne <22tape@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Oh, the beautiful human trait of deflection. >> On Oct 22, 2014 2:24 PM, "Jon Sands" <fohdeesha@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> On 10/22/2014 3:22 PM, Esa Juhani Ruoho wrote: >>> >>> yes, IT Crowd is a tv-series >>> >>> >>> A hilarious one :) >>> >>> not excited about the American remake.... >>> >>> -- >>> Jon Sands >>> >>> >> >

not sure if that was meant for me, clint, but, for me, this goes way beyond pirating music. buy yeah. not trying to convince anyone of anything. it's difficult to have a meaningful conversation with someone face to face, let alone the internet. On Oct 22, 2014 2:41 PM, "Clint Anderson" <clinta@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 56 lines "would you steal a [physical object]?"

> > "would you steal a [physical object]?" > yes its pretty obvious that almost everyone except the morally righteous > warriors of light will steal anything and everything they can regardless of > their affluence or poverty, why are you even asking this question, what is > its relevance to the conversation? > people can will and do steal everything they can even things they can > afford, all your music (all of you) can be pirated for free, everyone > buying your music knows this and chooses to give you the money because they > want you to continue to produce more music, a purely selfish aim. > literally everyone on earth can pirate aphex twin's music, yet somehow he > has a house and five studios and enough money that all he has to do is > write music all day and can even turn down gigs that arent, as he put it > "stupid money gigs", people tell him stupid shit like "i downloaded your > entire discography", there is in fact an interview where he said he saw > someone on the street selling DVDRs with his entire discography on them for > like $5, you're going to tell me now, that everyone who has ever bought his > music buys it because its immoral to steal, or because they can't pirate > it? i just don't believe it... > > > > Clint Anderson > Systems Engineer > > On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 2:31 PM, Esa Juhani Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> set your deflectors to stun! >> >> --- >> http://lackluster.bandcamp.com >> http://lackluster.org >> http://esaruoho.tumblr.com >> iPhone: +358403703659 >> >> On 22 Oct 2014, at 22:31, Jared Dunne <22tape@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Oh, the beautiful human trait of deflection. >> On Oct 22, 2014 2:24 PM, "Jon Sands" <fohdeesha@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> On 10/22/2014 3:22 PM, Esa Juhani Ruoho wrote: >>> >>> yes, IT Crowd is a tv-series >>> >>> >>> A hilarious one :) >>> >>> not excited about the American remake.... >>> >>> -- >>> Jon Sands >>> >>> >> >

On 10/22/2014 3:31 PM, Jared Dunne wrote:

quoted 3 lines Oh, the beautiful human trait of deflection.

> > Oh, the beautiful human trait of deflection. >

Nah, I think I just speak for the majority of this list (and Zack summed it up well) that nobody is really interested in wasting any more effort responding to the extremely poor straw man you have repeatedly tried to make. We'd rather talk about something interesting. I think the moment you made the hilarious comparison of physical objects to copyright, most of the people here lost interest in you. It's ok though, I'm sure you'll get some poor sap here soon willing to argue with you -- Jon Sands Fohdeesha Media http://fohdeesha.com/

Be well, my friend, Jon. On Oct 22, 2014 3:49 PM, "Jon Sands" <fohdeesha@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 20 lines On 10/22/2014 3:31 PM, Jared Dunne wrote:

> On 10/22/2014 3:31 PM, Jared Dunne wrote: > >> >> Oh, the beautiful human trait of deflection. >> >> > Nah, I think I just speak for the majority of this list (and Zack summed > it up well) that nobody is really interested in wasting any more effort > responding to the extremely poor straw man you have repeatedly tried to > make. We'd rather talk about something interesting. I think the moment you > made the hilarious comparison of physical objects to copyright, most of the > people here lost interest in you. It's ok though, I'm sure you'll get some > poor sap here soon willing to argue with you > > -- > Jon Sands > Fohdeesha Media > http://fohdeesha.com/ > >

so anyone think Best Fiends has got monetization or is it all an in-app-purchase rip-off? --- http://lackluster.bandcamp.com http://lackluster.org http://esaruoho.tumblr.com iPhone: +358403703659

quoted 17 lines On 22 Oct 2014, at 23:51, Jared Dunne <22tape@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 22 Oct 2014, at 23:51, Jared Dunne <22tape@gmail.com> wrote: > > Be well, my friend, Jon. > > On Oct 22, 2014 3:49 PM, "Jon Sands" <fohdeesha@gmail.com <mailto:fohdeesha@gmail.com>> wrote: > On 10/22/2014 3:31 PM, Jared Dunne wrote: > > Oh, the beautiful human trait of deflection. > > > Nah, I think I just speak for the majority of this list (and Zack summed it up well) that nobody is really interested in wasting any more effort responding to the extremely poor straw man you have repeatedly tried to make. We'd rather talk about something interesting. I think the moment you made the hilarious comparison of physical objects to copyright, most of the people here lost interest in you. It's ok though, I'm sure you'll get some poor sap here soon willing to argue with you > > -- > Jon Sands > Fohdeesha Media > http://fohdeesha.com/ <http://fohdeesha.com/> >

there's that word "decent" right between "got" and "monetization". i wonder if an album app with in-app-purchases would make a dime --- http://lackluster.bandcamp.com http://lackluster.org http://esaruoho.tumblr.com iPhone: +358403703659

quoted 28 lines On 22 Oct 2014, at 23:52, Esa Juhani Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 22 Oct 2014, at 23:52, Esa Juhani Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: > > so anyone think Best Fiends has got monetization or is it all an in-app-purchase rip-off? > > --- > http://lackluster.bandcamp.com <http://lackluster.bandcamp.com/> > http://lackluster.org <http://lackluster.org/> > http://esaruoho.tumblr.com <http://esaruoho.tumblr.com/> > iPhone: +358403703659 > >> On 22 Oct 2014, at 23:51, Jared Dunne <22tape@gmail.com <mailto:22tape@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> Be well, my friend, Jon. >> >> On Oct 22, 2014 3:49 PM, "Jon Sands" <fohdeesha@gmail.com <mailto:fohdeesha@gmail.com>> wrote: >> On 10/22/2014 3:31 PM, Jared Dunne wrote: >> >> Oh, the beautiful human trait of deflection. >> >> >> Nah, I think I just speak for the majority of this list (and Zack summed it up well) that nobody is really interested in wasting any more effort responding to the extremely poor straw man you have repeatedly tried to make. We'd rather talk about something interesting. I think the moment you made the hilarious comparison of physical objects to copyright, most of the people here lost interest in you. It's ok though, I'm sure you'll get some poor sap here soon willing to argue with you >> >> -- >> Jon Sands >> Fohdeesha Media >> http://fohdeesha.com/ <http://fohdeesha.com/> >> >

maybe an album with an embedded bitcoin miner rootkit Clint Anderson Systems Engineer On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 3:56 PM, Esa Juhani Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 48 lines there's that word "decent" right between "got" and "monetiza

> there's that word "decent" right between "got" and "monetization". > > i wonder if an album app with in-app-purchases would make a dime > > --- > http://lackluster.bandcamp.com > http://lackluster.org > http://esaruoho.tumblr.com > iPhone: +358403703659 > > On 22 Oct 2014, at 23:52, Esa Juhani Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: > > so anyone think Best Fiends has got monetization or is it all an > in-app-purchase rip-off? > > --- > http://lackluster.bandcamp.com > http://lackluster.org > http://esaruoho.tumblr.com > iPhone: +358403703659 > > On 22 Oct 2014, at 23:51, Jared Dunne <22tape@gmail.com> wrote: > > Be well, my friend, Jon. > On Oct 22, 2014 3:49 PM, "Jon Sands" <fohdeesha@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 10/22/2014 3:31 PM, Jared Dunne wrote: >> >>> >>> Oh, the beautiful human trait of deflection. >>> >>> >> Nah, I think I just speak for the majority of this list (and Zack summed >> it up well) that nobody is really interested in wasting any more effort >> responding to the extremely poor straw man you have repeatedly tried to >> make. We'd rather talk about something interesting. I think the moment you >> made the hilarious comparison of physical objects to copyright, most of the >> people here lost interest in you. It's ok though, I'm sure you'll get some >> poor sap here soon willing to argue with you >> >> -- >> Jon Sands >> Fohdeesha Media >> http://fohdeesha.com/ >> >> > >

there's already games like that around. they suck the battery dry On 23 October 2014 00:11, Clint Anderson <clinta@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 58 lines maybe an album with an embedded bitcoin miner rootkit

> maybe an album with an embedded bitcoin miner rootkit > > > Clint Anderson > Systems Engineer > > On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 3:56 PM, Esa Juhani Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> there's that word "decent" right between "got" and "monetization". >> >> i wonder if an album app with in-app-purchases would make a dime >> >> --- >> http://lackluster.bandcamp.com >> http://lackluster.org >> http://esaruoho.tumblr.com >> iPhone: +358403703659 >> >> On 22 Oct 2014, at 23:52, Esa Juhani Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> so anyone think Best Fiends has got monetization or is it all an >> in-app-purchase rip-off? >> >> --- >> http://lackluster.bandcamp.com >> http://lackluster.org >> http://esaruoho.tumblr.com >> iPhone: +358403703659 >> >> On 22 Oct 2014, at 23:51, Jared Dunne <22tape@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Be well, my friend, Jon. >> On Oct 22, 2014 3:49 PM, "Jon Sands" <fohdeesha@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> On 10/22/2014 3:31 PM, Jared Dunne wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Oh, the beautiful human trait of deflection. >>>> >>>> >>> Nah, I think I just speak for the majority of this list (and Zack summed >>> it up well) that nobody is really interested in wasting any more effort >>> responding to the extremely poor straw man you have repeatedly tried to >>> make. We'd rather talk about something interesting. I think the moment you >>> made the hilarious comparison of physical objects to copyright, most of the >>> people here lost interest in you. It's ok though, I'm sure you'll get some >>> poor sap here soon willing to argue with you >>> >>> -- >>> Jon Sands >>> Fohdeesha Media >>> http://fohdeesha.com/ >>> >>> >> >> >

With sounds missing, like? It could be ambient maybe unless you purchased the beats.

quoted 52 lines there's that word "decent" right between "got" and "monetiza

> there's that word "decent" right between "got" and "monetization". > > i wonder if an album app with in-app-purchases would make a dime > > --- > http://lackluster.bandcamp.com > http://lackluster.org > http://esaruoho.tumblr.com > iPhone: +358403703659 > >> On 22 Oct 2014, at 23:52, Esa Juhani Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com >> <mailto:esaruoho@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> so anyone think Best Fiends has got monetization or is it all an >> in-app-purchase rip-off? >> >> --- >> http://lackluster.bandcamp.com <http://lackluster.bandcamp.com/> >> http://lackluster.org <http://lackluster.org/> >> http://esaruoho.tumblr.com <http://esaruoho.tumblr.com/> >> iPhone: +358403703659 >> >>> On 22 Oct 2014, at 23:51, Jared Dunne <22tape@gmail.com >>> <mailto:22tape@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>> Be well, my friend, Jon. >>> >>> On Oct 22, 2014 3:49 PM, "Jon Sands" <fohdeesha@gmail.com >>> <mailto:fohdeesha@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>> On 10/22/2014 3:31 PM, Jared Dunne wrote: >>> >>> >>> Oh, the beautiful human trait of deflection. >>> >>> >>> Nah, I think I just speak for the majority of this list (and >>> Zack summed it up well) that nobody is really interested in >>> wasting any more effort responding to the extremely poor straw >>> man you have repeatedly tried to make. We'd rather talk about >>> something interesting. I think the moment you made the hilarious >>> comparison of physical objects to copyright, most of the people >>> here lost interest in you. It's ok though, I'm sure you'll get >>> some poor sap here soon willing to argue with you >>> >>> -- >>> Jon Sands >>> Fohdeesha Media >>> http://fohdeesha.com/ >>> >> >

So, uh, who's taken the time to listen to Clark's new album? I've been streaming it via bleep (c? I r gud guy). Damn good, but not what I was expecting (as usual). Reminds me of WOW- Mouse on Mars: EDM influenced IDM. On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 7:19 PM, John D. <johndalton@pchome.com.tw> wrote:

quoted 52 lines With sounds missing, like? It could be ambient maybe unless you

> With sounds missing, like? It could be ambient maybe unless you > purchased the beats. > > there's that word "decent" right between "got" and "monetization". > > i wonder if an album app with in-app-purchases would make a dime > > --- > http://lackluster.bandcamp.com > http://lackluster.org > http://esaruoho.tumblr.com > iPhone: +358403703659 > > On 22 Oct 2014, at 23:52, Esa Juhani Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: > > so anyone think Best Fiends has got monetization or is it all an > in-app-purchase rip-off? > > --- > http://lackluster.bandcamp.com > http://lackluster.org > http://esaruoho.tumblr.com > iPhone: +358403703659 > > On 22 Oct 2014, at 23:51, Jared Dunne <22tape@gmail.com> wrote: > > Be well, my friend, Jon. > On Oct 22, 2014 3:49 PM, "Jon Sands" <fohdeesha@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 10/22/2014 3:31 PM, Jared Dunne wrote: >> >>> >>> Oh, the beautiful human trait of deflection. >>> >>> >> Nah, I think I just speak for the majority of this list (and Zack summed >> it up well) that nobody is really interested in wasting any more effort >> responding to the extremely poor straw man you have repeatedly tried to >> make. We'd rather talk about something interesting. I think the moment you >> made the hilarious comparison of physical objects to copyright, most of the >> people here lost interest in you. It's ok though, I'm sure you'll get some >> poor sap here soon willing to argue with you >> >> -- >> Jon Sands >> Fohdeesha Media >> http://fohdeesha.com/ >> >> > > >

I only listened to the sampler track that was out a while ago and was fairly unimpressed. Irrespective of style I thought it was a little dull. Hopefully the album is better though! Sent from my iPhone

quoted 45 lines On 23 Oct 2014, at 05:38, Connor Higgins <connor1higgins@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 23 Oct 2014, at 05:38, Connor Higgins <connor1higgins@gmail.com> wrote: > > So, uh, who's taken the time to listen to Clark's new album? I've been streaming it via bleep (c? I r gud guy). Damn good, but not what I was expecting (as usual). Reminds me of WOW- Mouse on Mars: EDM influenced IDM. > > > >> On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 7:19 PM, John D. <johndalton@pchome.com.tw> wrote: >> With sounds missing, like? It could be ambient maybe unless you purchased the beats. >> >>> there's that word "decent" right between "got" and "monetization". >>> >>> i wonder if an album app with in-app-purchases would make a dime >>> >>> --- >>> http://lackluster.bandcamp.com >>> http://lackluster.org >>> http://esaruoho.tumblr.com >>> iPhone: +358403703659 >>> >>>> On 22 Oct 2014, at 23:52, Esa Juhani Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> so anyone think Best Fiends has got monetization or is it all an in-app-purchase rip-off? >>>> >>>> --- >>>> http://lackluster.bandcamp.com >>>> http://lackluster.org >>>> http://esaruoho.tumblr.com >>>> iPhone: +358403703659 >>>> >>>>> On 22 Oct 2014, at 23:51, Jared Dunne <22tape@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Be well, my friend, Jon. >>>>> >>>>>> On Oct 22, 2014 3:49 PM, "Jon Sands" <fohdeesha@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> On 10/22/2014 3:31 PM, Jared Dunne wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Oh, the beautiful human trait of deflection. >>>>>> >>>>>> Nah, I think I just speak for the majority of this list (and Zack summed it up well) that nobody is really interested in wasting any more effort responding to the extremely poor straw man you have repeatedly tried to make. We'd rather talk about something interesting. I think the moment you made the hilarious comparison of physical objects to copyright, most of the people here lost interest in you. It's ok though, I'm sure you'll get some poor sap here soon willing to argue with you >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Jon Sands >>>>>> Fohdeesha Media >>>>>> http://fohdeesha.com/ >

nah, more like, you have an album, but to unlock extra bonus tracks, you have to pay 0.99 EURO or so. and then they'd be inside the app. On 23 October 2014 05:19, John D. <johndalton@pchome.com.tw> wrote:

quoted 52 lines With sounds missing, like? It could be ambient maybe unless you

> With sounds missing, like? It could be ambient maybe unless you > purchased the beats. > > there's that word "decent" right between "got" and "monetization". > > i wonder if an album app with in-app-purchases would make a dime > > --- > http://lackluster.bandcamp.com > http://lackluster.org > http://esaruoho.tumblr.com > iPhone: +358403703659 > > On 22 Oct 2014, at 23:52, Esa Juhani Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: > > so anyone think Best Fiends has got monetization or is it all an > in-app-purchase rip-off? > > --- > http://lackluster.bandcamp.com > http://lackluster.org > http://esaruoho.tumblr.com > iPhone: +358403703659 > > On 22 Oct 2014, at 23:51, Jared Dunne <22tape@gmail.com> wrote: > > Be well, my friend, Jon. > On Oct 22, 2014 3:49 PM, "Jon Sands" <fohdeesha@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 10/22/2014 3:31 PM, Jared Dunne wrote: >> >>> >>> Oh, the beautiful human trait of deflection. >>> >>> >> Nah, I think I just speak for the majority of this list (and Zack summed >> it up well) that nobody is really interested in wasting any more effort >> responding to the extremely poor straw man you have repeatedly tried to >> make. We'd rather talk about something interesting. I think the moment you >> made the hilarious comparison of physical objects to copyright, most of the >> people here lost interest in you. It's ok though, I'm sure you'll get some >> poor sap here soon willing to argue with you >> >> -- >> Jon Sands >> Fohdeesha Media >> http://fohdeesha.com/ >> >> > > >

Might work. Maybe an artist could have an individual app. I like my idea though. "Want some claps here? Pay just $.09!"

quoted 65 lines nah, more like, you have an album, but to unlock extra bonus tracks,

> nah, more like, you have an album, but to unlock extra bonus tracks, > you have to pay 0.99EUR or so. and then they'd be inside the app. > > > On 23 October 2014 05:19, John D. <johndalton@pchome.com.tw > <mailto:johndalton@pchome.com.tw>> wrote: > > With sounds missing, like? It could be ambient maybe unless you > purchased the beats. > >> there's that word "decent" right between "got" and "monetization". >> >> i wonder if an album app with in-app-purchases would make a dime >> >> --- >> http://lackluster.bandcamp.com >> http://lackluster.org >> http://esaruoho.tumblr.com >> iPhone: +358403703659 <tel:%2B358403703659> >> >>> On 22 Oct 2014, at 23:52, Esa Juhani Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com >>> <mailto:esaruoho@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>> so anyone think Best Fiends has got monetization or is it all an >>> in-app-purchase rip-off? >>> >>> --- >>> http://lackluster.bandcamp.com <http://lackluster.bandcamp.com/> >>> http://lackluster.org <http://lackluster.org/> >>> http://esaruoho.tumblr.com <http://esaruoho.tumblr.com/> >>> iPhone: +358403703659 <tel:%2B358403703659> >>> >>>> On 22 Oct 2014, at 23:51, Jared Dunne <22tape@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:22tape@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Be well, my friend, Jon. >>>> >>>> On Oct 22, 2014 3:49 PM, "Jon Sands" <fohdeesha@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:fohdeesha@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>> On 10/22/2014 3:31 PM, Jared Dunne wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Oh, the beautiful human trait of deflection. >>>> >>>> >>>> Nah, I think I just speak for the majority of this list >>>> (and Zack summed it up well) that nobody is really >>>> interested in wasting any more effort responding to the >>>> extremely poor straw man you have repeatedly tried to make. >>>> We'd rather talk about something interesting. I think the >>>> moment you made the hilarious comparison of physical >>>> objects to copyright, most of the people here lost interest >>>> in you. It's ok though, I'm sure you'll get some poor sap >>>> here soon willing to argue with you >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Jon Sands >>>> Fohdeesha Media >>>> http://fohdeesha.com/ >>>> >>> >> > >

everyone would have to make their own one ahh, i see what you mean John - build your own tracks by artist xyz, made to-order. like a subway sandwich. "i'll have 909 claps and a 606 rimshot, and a walking acoustic bassline, hold the glitches" On 23 October 2014 09:34, John D. <johndalton@pchome.com.tw> wrote:

quoted 64 lines Might work. Maybe an artist could have an individual app.

> Might work. Maybe an artist could have an individual app. > > I like my idea though. "Want some claps here? Pay just $.09!" > > nah, more like, you have an album, but to unlock extra bonus tracks, you > have to pay 0.99 EURO or so. and then they'd be inside the app. > > > On 23 October 2014 05:19, John D. <johndalton@pchome.com.tw> wrote: > >> With sounds missing, like? It could be ambient maybe unless you >> purchased the beats. >> >> there's that word "decent" right between "got" and "monetization". >> >> i wonder if an album app with in-app-purchases would make a dime >> >> --- >> http://lackluster.bandcamp.com >> http://lackluster.org >> http://esaruoho.tumblr.com >> iPhone: +358403703659 >> >> On 22 Oct 2014, at 23:52, Esa Juhani Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> so anyone think Best Fiends has got monetization or is it all an >> in-app-purchase rip-off? >> >> --- >> http://lackluster.bandcamp.com >> http://lackluster.org >> http://esaruoho.tumblr.com >> iPhone: +358403703659 >> >> On 22 Oct 2014, at 23:51, Jared Dunne <22tape@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Be well, my friend, Jon. >> On Oct 22, 2014 3:49 PM, "Jon Sands" <fohdeesha@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> On 10/22/2014 3:31 PM, Jared Dunne wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Oh, the beautiful human trait of deflection. >>>> >>>> >>> Nah, I think I just speak for the majority of this list (and Zack summed >>> it up well) that nobody is really interested in wasting any more effort >>> responding to the extremely poor straw man you have repeatedly tried to >>> make. We'd rather talk about something interesting. I think the moment you >>> made the hilarious comparison of physical objects to copyright, most of the >>> people here lost interest in you. It's ok though, I'm sure you'll get some >>> poor sap here soon willing to argue with you >>> >>> -- >>> Jon Sands >>> Fohdeesha Media >>> http://fohdeesha.com/ >>> >>> >> >> >> > >

Mind you, I'd also download a driver's licence. --- http://lackluster.bandcamp.com http://lackluster.org http://esaruoho.tumblr.com iPhone: +358403703659

quoted 14 lines On 22 Oct 2014, at 22:15, Jon Sands <fohdeesha@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 22 Oct 2014, at 22:15, Jon Sands <fohdeesha@gmail.com> wrote: > > On 10/22/2014 3:08 PM, Jared Dunne wrote: >> >> "I'm going to steal a vacuum. If I like it, I'll go buy another one because I feel like supporting the people that made it."-- said no one ever >> > > lol. "YOU WOULDN'T DOWNLOAD A CAR" > > http://questioncopyright.org/cm/images/piracy-is-not-theft.jpg > > -- > Jon Sands >

Nevermind, Jon. You're not getting my point. That's fine. On Oct 22, 2014 2:15 PM, "Jon Sands" <fohdeesha@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 15 lines On 10/22/2014 3:08 PM, Jared Dunne wrote:

> On 10/22/2014 3:08 PM, Jared Dunne wrote: > >> >> "I'm going to steal a vacuum. If I like it, I'll go buy another one >> because I feel like supporting the people that made it."-- said no one ever >> >> > lol. "YOU WOULDN'T DOWNLOAD A CAR" > > http://questioncopyright.org/cm/images/piracy-is-not-theft.jpg > > -- > Jon Sands > >

if your friend had a fantastic dyson vacuum, you could borrow it, listen to it for a bit while it vacuums the fook out of your floor and make a decision on purchasing your own... i still maintain that i purchase what i want to after downloading. if i think something is ok but not worthy of buying then i keep it. If i don't like it then i delete it. If some track i haven't bought comes up on random play a year later and i like it, it'll trigger me to go look what this artist is doing now and the cycle starts again. This means an artist repeatedly gets my attention and there is a possibility i will purchase his work the next time round. Sometimes i find a release doesn't do it for me, then a year later it does, so i'll buy it then. i've tried the likes of spotify etc to replace this method, but the playlists contain too much generic stuff i don't like, so these services aren't right for my needs. ??? On 22/10/2014, Jared Dunne <22tape@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 108 lines "I'm going to steal a vacuum. If I like it, I'll go buy another one

> "I'm going to steal a vacuum. If I like it, I'll go buy another one > because I feel like supporting the people that made it."-- said no one ever > > Just because music, books, movies are digital, and easily stolen, shouldn't > make it a justifiable crime. > > And, as a way of life, I've never been one who thinks much of the idea > that: > > I know it's probably not right. But I can't help to change it. So I'll > just go with the rest of the sheep. I'll just push that guilt so deep down > that not only does it become non-existent, it'll also become a source of > pride for my ignorance. > > If this is considered being on a "high horse", giddyup bitches. > > On Oct 22, 2014 1:38 PM, "Laurent Knauth" <laurent.knauth@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> As Sham said, <<*people think of themselves as good and moral*>>. This is >> how i might see myself for eating veggy, but definitely not as being >> <<urban>> -- i eat organic but have a unecological way of life, having a >> cellphone (even though it's a cheap one that i almost never use) and a >> computer assembled by poor people for the antipodes ; on top of that, i'm >> French and as such, taking advantage of <<Françafrique>>, even though i'm >> not >> responsible for it and find it more than regrettable. >> >> Now, sorry if my contribution seemed a little provocative, but then >> piracy >> concerns appear subjective and insoluble to me -- until some legal >> package >> ultimately gets the afterword, like it happened with sampling. >> >> Yet, even though it finally has a legal framework, the legitimacy of >> sampling remains hard to define to me so far. In one case, i'm tempted to >> think that sampling a whole bar is going too far, but then of course it >> depends on who does it and how. On the other end, some people think that >> even sampling a snaredrum <<only>> is already stealing, because recording >> this snaredrum required a whole life of abnegation. >> >> Like many people here, i'm hoping to make some music that deserves some >> <<commercial>> release one day. >> And like many people here, i'm listening to illegal music a lot, which i >> generally don't like so i have no problem about it. >> Sure, there are Youtube, Spotify and other <<legal>>-likes which i also >> use >> an awful lot, but many <<serious>> people see them as the fatal blow >> dragging >> down the music industry. >> >> Until Universal Music trully deserves its name -- i.e. they'd stream >> about >> each and every existing music catalog on earth --, maybe only lossless >> audio >> should be forbidden ? >> >> On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 3:58 PM, Esa Juhani Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> This is like a can of worms type discussion that just doesn't stop. >>> >>> What, we've moved from Torrent piracy to sampling, is it illegal, >>> should >>> it be allowed, what if it shouldn't be. when is sampling a sample >>> piracy, >>> when is it theft, >>> .... >>> and >>> .... >>> when is it arson? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --- >>> http://lackluster.bandcamp.com >>> http://lackluster.org >>> http://esaruoho.tumblr.com >>> iPhone: +358403703659 >>> >>> On 22 Oct 2014, at 16:55, Laurent Knauth <laurent.knauth@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Correct me if i'm wrong, but Luke Vibert took over other people's music >>> before he ever got a chance to get pirated. >>> Now of course, that's a different story - or not ? >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 7:59 AM, Esa J. Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Sham, I remember Luke Vibert saying to The effect that that is exactly >>>> what People mention to him at The drop of a hat. >>>> Luke Vibert. >>>> >>>> Sent from some iDevice. Written by Esa. >>>> >>>> > On 22 Oct 2014, at 02:45, Sham Beam <sham.beam@gmail.com> wrote:. >>>> > >>>> > If you met your favorite muso in a bar would you mention you >>>> downloaded their entire discography? >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>> >>> >

-- _____________________________________________ Sent from my Sinclair ZX Spectrum 48K _____________________________________________ noise I make: http://www.soundcloud.com/pushkin http://www.last.fm/music/Pushkin noise I like: http://www.last.fm/user/zombiefly sites I run: http://www.ctran.co.uk http://o-fu-online.net -------------------------------

You guys are all so great and knowledgeable with your discussion of IDM 8') On Oct 21, 2014 8:45 PM, "Sham Beam" <sham.beam@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 22 lines On 10/21/2014 7:48 AM, Connor Higgins wrote:

> On 10/21/2014 7:48 AM, Connor Higgins wrote: > >> Why should I even bother having this conversation when folks like Jared >> come in and smash the metaphorical house of cards we've already >> established. Yes, Jared: Piracy is a criminal act. What I'm asking is if >> piracy is currently aiding the promotion of new and upcoming artists. >> >> > So what if it does? Those new artists have chosen not to distribute their > music via torrents and file sharing sites. > > Most people think of themselves as good and moral. I think attempts to > rationalize piracy as something that ultimately helps artists is more > likely a way for pirates to reconcile their knowledge that they are doing > something against someones will with being a moral person. > > If you met your favorite muso in a bar would you mention you downloaded > their entire discography? > > > >

IDM died somewhere around the end of 2004. On 10/23/2014 6:38 PM, Levin Ostapeck wrote:

quoted 29 lines You guys are all so great and knowledgeable with your discussion of IDM 8')

> You guys are all so great and knowledgeable with your discussion of IDM 8') > > On Oct 21, 2014 8:45 PM, "Sham Beam" <sham.beam@gmail.com > <mailto:sham.beam@gmail.com>> wrote: > > On 10/21/2014 7:48 AM, Connor Higgins wrote: > > Why should I even bother having this conversation when folks > like Jared > come in and smash the metaphorical house of cards we've already > established. Yes, Jared: Piracy is a criminal act. What I'm > asking is if > piracy is currently aiding the promotion of new and upcoming > artists. > > > So what if it does? Those new artists have chosen not to distribute > their music via torrents and file sharing sites. > > Most people think of themselves as good and moral. I think attempts > to rationalize piracy as something that ultimately helps artists is > more likely a way for pirates to reconcile their knowledge that they > are doing something against someones will with being a moral person. > > If you met your favorite muso in a bar would you mention you > downloaded their entire discography? > > >

-- Sham Beam

http://youtu.be/KQoJo81lujk On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 2:39 AM, Sham Beam <sham.beam@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 43 lines IDM died somewhere around the end of 2004.

> IDM died somewhere around the end of 2004. > > > > On 10/23/2014 6:38 PM, Levin Ostapeck wrote: > >> You guys are all so great and knowledgeable with your discussion of IDM >> 8') >> >> On Oct 21, 2014 8:45 PM, "Sham Beam" <sham.beam@gmail.com >> <mailto:sham.beam@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> On 10/21/2014 7:48 AM, Connor Higgins wrote: >> >> Why should I even bother having this conversation when folks >> like Jared >> come in and smash the metaphorical house of cards we've already >> established. Yes, Jared: Piracy is a criminal act. What I'm >> asking is if >> piracy is currently aiding the promotion of new and upcoming >> artists. >> >> >> So what if it does? Those new artists have chosen not to distribute >> their music via torrents and file sharing sites. >> >> Most people think of themselves as good and moral. I think attempts >> to rationalize piracy as something that ultimately helps artists is >> more likely a way for pirates to reconcile their knowledge that they >> are doing something against someones will with being a moral person. >> >> If you met your favorite muso in a bar would you mention you >> downloaded their entire discography? >> >> >> >> > > -- > Sham Beam > > >

Poop flick with heart... so good! On Oct 24, 2014 2:14 PM, "kent williams" <chaircrusher@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 48 lines http://youtu

> http://youtu.be/KQoJo81lujk > > On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 2:39 AM, Sham Beam <sham.beam@gmail.com> wrote: > >> IDM died somewhere around the end of 2004. >> >> >> >> On 10/23/2014 6:38 PM, Levin Ostapeck wrote: >> >>> You guys are all so great and knowledgeable with your discussion of IDM >>> 8') >>> >>> On Oct 21, 2014 8:45 PM, "Sham Beam" <sham.beam@gmail.com >>> <mailto:sham.beam@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>> On 10/21/2014 7:48 AM, Connor Higgins wrote: >>> >>> Why should I even bother having this conversation when folks >>> like Jared >>> come in and smash the metaphorical house of cards we've already >>> established. Yes, Jared: Piracy is a criminal act. What I'm >>> asking is if >>> piracy is currently aiding the promotion of new and upcoming >>> artists. >>> >>> >>> So what if it does? Those new artists have chosen not to distribute >>> their music via torrents and file sharing sites. >>> >>> Most people think of themselves as good and moral. I think attempts >>> to rationalize piracy as something that ultimately helps artists is >>> more likely a way for pirates to reconcile their knowledge that they >>> are doing something against someones will with being a moral person. >>> >>> If you met your favorite muso in a bar would you mention you >>> downloaded their entire discography? >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Sham Beam >> >> >> >

ohh, another piracy discussion… if we had less artists (which just don't work their ass off when doing something with passion), we would have more money we could spend on those artist in average. i know we face an over population so it is hard to change ; ) unfortunately the money does not get more the more good music i hear. but hey, more potential customers will come! i buy vinyl - don’t know how much money i've spent on. quite a lot. compared to mp3/lossless files it is very expensive, because often i have to buy tracks with the vinyl i don’t need or like (i know, maybe later, but that’s really rare in my case). a digital track costs from around €1, sometimes even €1,50. quite a bit of money for people in south america, asia or somewhere out there connected to the internet. is it better to exclude them from consuming music? or or the people who love a lot of music - more they can pay for, even more they can listen to? thats why i actually like the bandcamp option „pay what you want“. it brings more democracy into the pricing. i know there are a lot of more points for each site but in the end we all will find out that that’s the problem of the economic- and social system we live in. so pls all be kind ; ) peace! Am 20.10.2014 um 22:48 schrieb Connor Higgins <connor1higgins@gmail.com>:

quoted 180 lines Why should I even bother having this conversation when folks like Jared come in and smash

> Why should I even bother having this conversation when folks like Jared come in and smash the metaphorical house of cards we've already established. Yes, Jared: Piracy is a criminal act. What I'm asking is if piracy is currently aiding the promotion of new and upcoming artists. > > Someone above argued that youtube and spotify should be used instead of trackers, but I think everyone is aware of the limited scope that these services can provide. For one, they can barely attest to being better than pirating, as artists tend to receive little to no compensation per view. Furthermore, these services tend to omit certain groups, or only feature a specific subset of an artist's work. Consider someone that's just stumbled upon Autechre, but youtube or spotify only features Quaristice (Just a hypothetical). Most fans would agree there are better starting points in their discography, and having only found this one currently inaccessible album, our potential fan has written the duo off for good. > > On the other hand, if our potential fan uses a private tracker of sorts, he or she will find the duo's entire discography at their fingertips. Having read the reviews posted of albums, he or she can make an informed first-listening decision, which can potentially galvanize a long-term fandom, and therefore a monetary investment, be it through concert tickets or actually paying for the albums. The point is, a great deal of this process stops because of how incomprehensive youtube and spotify are as sources for musical exploration. And for the measly benefit of earning the artist fractions of a penny. > > /rant > > > > > On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 3:33 PM, Clint Anderson <clinta@gmail.com> wrote: > property is theft > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHSH9rUqTpw > > > Clint Anderson > Systems Engineer > > On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 2:30 PM, Jared Dunne <22tape@gmail.com> wrote: > piracy is theft. or else, instead of calling it piracy, it'd be called "happy free giveaways from people who work their ass off on their art". yes, it is that black and white. > > On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 1:18 PM, Clint Anderson <clinta@gmail.com> wrote: > heh, not gonna say anything other than that google will provide you with more music sharing 0dayz sites than you will ever be able to shake any number of sticks at > > personally i enjoy buying records and listening to clicks and pops too much to pirate everything but i do really insist on at least streaming the entire release before i drop what is sometimes as much as $40 on a release (SYRO was $32.99!) > > im not pro-file-sharing sites i just think its ridiculous that there is a interview process and invites for something that literally couldn't be easier to find or even trip over its so common > > > Clint Anderson > Systems Engineer > > On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 2:08 PM, Connor Higgins <connor1higgins@gmail.com> wrote: > Juho: Do you have a good rebuttal to the "ends justifying the means" argument concerning piracy and its potential benefits? I'm all ears. Let's just stay away from blatant misrepresentations of each other's views. > > Tris: I'd send you one if I had an invite to give, but unfortunately I don't. Trackers tend to be rather conservative when handing those out. The other method is to take the IRC interview and test, which is how I ended up joining. It's a little tedious (~3 hours or so) but it isn't too difficult in terms of content. Just know the basic file formats and the like. There's a number of resources online if you're interested enough. > > On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 12:44 PM, Tristan Strange <tristan.strange@gmail.com> wrote: > Don't know if this is the place to ask but..... > > Is any one capable of inviting me to these services? > > Cheers, > Tris > > On 20 October 2014 17:15, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com> wrote: > i like to make generalised sweeping statements about an entire industry based on my habits too > > > On 20 Oct 2014, at 15:56, Esa Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I AM GROOT >> >> >> On 20 October 2014 16:55, Zombiefly <zombiefly@gmail.com> wrote: >> just follow him on facebook. you'll soon get to realise what he thinks of the music industry and the middleman. Don't get me wrong here, piracy is bad, my point is that waffles/what.cd caused my music purchasing to rise, not fall. but then that's just me... do you think that sites have cause a drop in sales? do you think that the people pirating would purchase if piracy wasn't an option? i think a small percentage would but the others would just find some other way of getting music for free.. >> >> >> On 20 October 2014 14:39, Esa J. Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: >> Can You direct us to an interview with A Guy Called Gerald? >> >> Sent from some iDevice. Written by Esa. >> >> > On 20 Oct 2014, at 15:33, Zombiefly <zombiefly@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > to be fair, spotify and youtube weren't around when i joined OiNK. >> > it's only recently that these services have taken off. I hardly use >> > torrents any more, i've purchased all my needs from the past now and i >> > continue to buy new stuff on bandcamp etc. It was the music industry >> > that failed to respond to the internet, so don't blame OiNKers for >> > creating something to force their hand. Rules are simple, if you >> > download, then purchase from the artist directly. Paying the major >> > companies for anything is even worse. the artist gets virtually none >> > of that. Go speak to A Guy Called Gerald and ask him what he thinks of >> > the music industry :) >> > >> > >> >> On 20/10/2014, Juho Hietala <hietala@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> internet music wankers (tm) >> >> >> >> “but i wouldnt discover things if i didnt copy them at first” is the most >> >> 80s argument i know of. hey we have things like youtube and spotify in the >> >> 2000s, hope you’ll join us here, connor.. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On 13 Oct 2014, at 09:13, Esa Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> im bad with ratios and whatnots so i would just go there to find comments >> >>> on my own releases. >> >>> that's what i used what.cd for, i think. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On 13 October 2014 08:24, Connor Higgins <connor1higgins@gmail.com> >> >>> wrote: >> >>> Still ethically shaky regardless of accepting that it as such. >> >>> >> >>> On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 10:04 PM, Sham Beam <sham.beam@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> it's only a quagmire if you don't want to accept piracy is disrespectful. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On 10/13/2014 3:22 PM, Connor Higgins wrote: >> >>> If it's anything like what.cd <http://what.cd>, just make sure to be >> >>> picky in your selections and seed generously. No need to fill requests >> >>> or upload unless you're going overboard with your "purchases". >> >>> >> >>> If this ends up turning into one of those rehashed discussions on the >> >>> merits and moral qualms associated with pirating music, then here are my >> >>> two cents: I wouldn't know 2/3's of the artists I currently support >> >>> monetarily if I hadn't nicked some of their work illegally. Do the ends >> >>> justify the means? How should I know? Let the ethicists in their ivory >> >>> towers navigate that quagmire. I just listen to music. >> >>> >> >>> On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 7:59 PM, Sam Loschl <watercat1996@gmail.com >> >>> <mailto:watercat1996@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> anybody on waffles? just got an invite, looking for friends or any >> >>> advice you'd have for a novice. first private tracker i've had the >> >>> opportunity to join >> >>> >> >>> sam` >> >>> 808cat >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> Sham Beam >> > >> > >> > -- >> > _____________________________________________ >> > Sent from my Sinclair ZX Spectrum 48K >> > _____________________________________________ >> > noise I make: >> > http://www.soundcloud.com/pushkin >> > http://www.last.fm/music/Pushkin >> > >> > noise I like: >> > http://www.last.fm/user/zombiefly >> > >> > sites I run: >> > http://www.ctran.co.uk >> > http://o-fu-online.net >> > ------------------------------- >> >> >> >> -- >> _____________________________________________ >> Sent from my Sinclair ZX Spectrum 48K >> _____________________________________________ >> noise I make: >> http://www.soundcloud.com/pushkin >> http://www.last.fm/music/Pushkin >> >> noise I like: >> http://www.last.fm/user/zombiefly >> >> sites I run: >> http://www.ctran.co.uk >> http://o-fu-online.net >> ------------------------------- >> > > > > > > > > -- > 22tape/jared dunne > listen > >

ahh, i see what you mean John - build your own tracks by artist xyz, made to-order. like a subway sandwich. "i'll have 909 claps and a 606 rimshot, and a walking acoustic bassline, hold the glitches" On 23 October 2014 09:33, John D. <johndalton@pchome.com.tw> wrote:

quoted 64 lines Might work. Maybe an artist could have an individual app.

> Might work. Maybe an artist could have an individual app. > > I like my idea though. "Want some claps here? Pay just $.09!" > > nah, more like, you have an album, but to unlock extra bonus tracks, you > have to pay 0.99 EURO or so. and then they'd be inside the app. > > > On 23 October 2014 05:19, John D. <johndalton@pchome.com.tw> wrote: > >> With sounds missing, like? It could be ambient maybe unless you >> purchased the beats. >> >> there's that word "decent" right between "got" and "monetization". >> >> i wonder if an album app with in-app-purchases would make a dime >> >> --- >> http://lackluster.bandcamp.com >> http://lackluster.org >> http://esaruoho.tumblr.com >> iPhone: +358403703659 >> >> On 22 Oct 2014, at 23:52, Esa Juhani Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> so anyone think Best Fiends has got monetization or is it all an >> in-app-purchase rip-off? >> >> --- >> http://lackluster.bandcamp.com >> http://lackluster.org >> http://esaruoho.tumblr.com >> iPhone: +358403703659 >> >> On 22 Oct 2014, at 23:51, Jared Dunne <22tape@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Be well, my friend, Jon. >> On Oct 22, 2014 3:49 PM, "Jon Sands" <fohdeesha@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> On 10/22/2014 3:31 PM, Jared Dunne wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Oh, the beautiful human trait of deflection. >>>> >>>> >>> Nah, I think I just speak for the majority of this list (and Zack summed >>> it up well) that nobody is really interested in wasting any more effort >>> responding to the extremely poor straw man you have repeatedly tried to >>> make. We'd rather talk about something interesting. I think the moment you >>> made the hilarious comparison of physical objects to copyright, most of the >>> people here lost interest in you. It's ok though, I'm sure you'll get some >>> poor sap here soon willing to argue with you >>> >>> -- >>> Jon Sands >>> Fohdeesha Media >>> http://fohdeesha.com/ >>> >>> >> >> >> > >

more glitches!! On 10/23/2014 5:36 PM, Esa Ruoho wrote:

quoted 82 lines ahh, i see what you mean John - build your own tracks by artist xyz,

> ahh, i see what you mean John - build your own tracks by artist xyz, > made to-order. > like a subway sandwich. > "i'll have 909 claps and a 606 rimshot, and a walking acoustic bassline, > hold the glitches" > > > On 23 October 2014 09:33, John D. <johndalton@pchome.com.tw > <mailto:johndalton@pchome.com.tw>> wrote: > > Might work. Maybe an artist could have an individual app. > > I like my idea though. "Want some claps here? Pay just $.09!" >> nah, more like, you have an album, but to unlock extra bonus >> tracks, you have to pay 0.99€ or so. and then they'd be inside the >> app. >> >> >> On 23 October 2014 05:19, John D. <johndalton@pchome.com.tw >> <mailto:johndalton@pchome.com.tw>> wrote: >> >> With sounds missing, like? It could be ambient maybe unless >> you purchased the beats. >> >>> there's that word "decent" right between "got" and >>> "monetization". >>> >>> i wonder if an album app with in-app-purchases would make a dime >>> >>> --- >>> http://lackluster.bandcamp.com >>> http://lackluster.org >>> http://esaruoho.tumblr.com >>> iPhone: +358403703659 <tel:%2B358403703659> >>> >>>> On 22 Oct 2014, at 23:52, Esa Juhani Ruoho >>>> <esaruoho@gmail.com <mailto:esaruoho@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>> so anyone think Best Fiends has got monetization or is it >>>> all an in-app-purchase rip-off? >>>> >>>> --- >>>> http://lackluster.bandcamp.com <http://lackluster.bandcamp.com/> >>>> http://lackluster.org <http://lackluster.org/> >>>> http://esaruoho.tumblr.com <http://esaruoho.tumblr.com/> >>>> iPhone: +358403703659 <tel:%2B358403703659> >>>> >>>>> On 22 Oct 2014, at 23:51, Jared Dunne <22tape@gmail.com >>>>> <mailto:22tape@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Be well, my friend, Jon. >>>>> >>>>> On Oct 22, 2014 3:49 PM, "Jon Sands" <fohdeesha@gmail.com >>>>> <mailto:fohdeesha@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On 10/22/2014 3:31 PM, Jared Dunne wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Oh, the beautiful human trait of deflection. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Nah, I think I just speak for the majority of this list >>>>> (and Zack summed it up well) that nobody is really >>>>> interested in wasting any more effort responding to the >>>>> extremely poor straw man you have repeatedly tried to >>>>> make. We'd rather talk about something interesting. I >>>>> think the moment you made the hilarious comparison of >>>>> physical objects to copyright, most of the people here >>>>> lost interest in you. It's ok though, I'm sure you'll >>>>> get some poor sap here soon willing to argue with you >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Jon Sands >>>>> Fohdeesha Media >>>>> http://fohdeesha.com/ >>>>> >>>> >>> >> >> > >

-- Sham Beam

Have you seen Ninja Jamm? It's pretty fun. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6euU0v17g4 [quote] Ninja Jamm is the new remix App for iOS from Ninja Tune and Seeper. Featuring touch and gesture controls with a range of instant effects and remix modes, users can interact with their favourite Ninja Tune releases in a whole new way, using the intuitive interface to re-imagine the song as they desire by mixing, glitching, looping and re-timing tracks [/quote] On 10/23/2014 5:36 PM, Esa Ruoho wrote:

quoted 82 lines ahh, i see what you mean John - build your own tracks by artist xyz,

> ahh, i see what you mean John - build your own tracks by artist xyz, > made to-order. > like a subway sandwich. > "i'll have 909 claps and a 606 rimshot, and a walking acoustic bassline, > hold the glitches" > > > On 23 October 2014 09:33, John D. <johndalton@pchome.com.tw > <mailto:johndalton@pchome.com.tw>> wrote: > > Might work. Maybe an artist could have an individual app. > > I like my idea though. "Want some claps here? Pay just $.09!" >> nah, more like, you have an album, but to unlock extra bonus >> tracks, you have to pay 0.99€ or so. and then they'd be inside the >> app. >> >> >> On 23 October 2014 05:19, John D. <johndalton@pchome.com.tw >> <mailto:johndalton@pchome.com.tw>> wrote: >> >> With sounds missing, like? It could be ambient maybe unless >> you purchased the beats. >> >>> there's that word "decent" right between "got" and >>> "monetization". >>> >>> i wonder if an album app with in-app-purchases would make a dime >>> >>> --- >>> http://lackluster.bandcamp.com >>> http://lackluster.org >>> http://esaruoho.tumblr.com >>> iPhone: +358403703659 <tel:%2B358403703659> >>> >>>> On 22 Oct 2014, at 23:52, Esa Juhani Ruoho >>>> <esaruoho@gmail.com <mailto:esaruoho@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>> so anyone think Best Fiends has got monetization or is it >>>> all an in-app-purchase rip-off? >>>> >>>> --- >>>> http://lackluster.bandcamp.com <http://lackluster.bandcamp.com/> >>>> http://lackluster.org <http://lackluster.org/> >>>> http://esaruoho.tumblr.com <http://esaruoho.tumblr.com/> >>>> iPhone: +358403703659 <tel:%2B358403703659> >>>> >>>>> On 22 Oct 2014, at 23:51, Jared Dunne <22tape@gmail.com >>>>> <mailto:22tape@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Be well, my friend, Jon. >>>>> >>>>> On Oct 22, 2014 3:49 PM, "Jon Sands" <fohdeesha@gmail.com >>>>> <mailto:fohdeesha@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On 10/22/2014 3:31 PM, Jared Dunne wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Oh, the beautiful human trait of deflection. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Nah, I think I just speak for the majority of this list >>>>> (and Zack summed it up well) that nobody is really >>>>> interested in wasting any more effort responding to the >>>>> extremely poor straw man you have repeatedly tried to >>>>> make. We'd rather talk about something interesting. I >>>>> think the moment you made the hilarious comparison of >>>>> physical objects to copyright, most of the people here >>>>> lost interest in you. It's ok though, I'm sure you'll >>>>> get some poor sap here soon willing to argue with you >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Jon Sands >>>>> Fohdeesha Media >>>>> http://fohdeesha.com/ >>>>> >>>> >>> >> >> > >

-- Sham Beam