IDM Mailing Archive

Hi there, I have a great idea! I took Mochipet's Ableton Live class last semester at SFSU extension and it was awesome! The final in the class is a whole song composed by you, and he is an amazing teacher! I learned so much! This one class got me composing electronic music right away. I am now writing all kinds of my own music using Live, and I really love it! =) You should check it out! Best, Forest --- StaticBeats <stupidnametaken@yahoo.com> wrote:

quoted 61 lines Hey all, my younger brother posted this to the Forum

> Hey all, my younger brother posted this to the Forum > on StaticBeats. I'm not much a music maker so I > don't > know where to direct him. I know there are forums > out > there and discussion lists where these type of > answers > exist. Any insight or help you can offer is > appreciated. See below. > > I'm at the tail end of my first quarter at UCSC, and > yesterday I took my final in my favorite course of > the > quarter: "History of Electronic Music." > > I'm sure my brother knows how much I enjoyed the > course, because I called him after almost every > session to tell him what cool stuff I learned. > > My experience in that class helped me decide that I > wanted to take my knowledge of music deeper (I play > guitar...) > > So I've decided to minor in electronic music... Very > Happy > > Hopefully the courses provided through UCSC will be > good, but I have a feeling they will be because most > of the professors in the department were deeply > involved in the startup companies (E-Mu > specifically) > and knew Bob Moog personally, and some even knew > Leon > Theremin!! (Some of these dudes are pretty old.) > > To cut a long story short, I cannot proceed with my > studies of electronic music until next year, because > the program excludes freshmen. To increase my > chances > of getting into the program (25 are allowed out of > the > 150 or so that apply yearly) I need to compose a few > tracks of my own. > > However, in the class, we only got tutorials on > expensive software, and I still seem to have trouble > getting the sounds I want from the program I'm using > currently (Re-birth, though I hope to upgrade to > Reason sometime soon...) > > So if any of you can give me some tips on > composition, > or just want to talk about the history of this > genre, > write back > > Thanks > -- > ~Elan > >

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forest green: http://www.forestgreen.org/about sister usa: http://www.sisterusa.com dim sum: http://www.dalycityrecords.com/dimsum cloud factory: http://www.cloudfactory.org friends and family: http://www.fnf.org __________________________________________ Yahoo! DSL – Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

tell him he's too late -- the people who were fascinated with this stuff in their youth when most people were busy dreaming of firetrucks have been composing since then, having come to the correct conclusion much earlier than him, and so have better technique by now. it would be pointless to compete with this unless he's got the drive and the passion to self motivate enough to teach himself. any teacher that has to judge the relative merits of 150 undergrad IDM fanboys' demos (shudder) will know in an instant that this guy is just trying to hack something together to get in the class, rather than demonstrating long hours of hard work and creative efforts. it can be done but imho it's unlikely given that his first impulse was to ask teh internot for help rather than DOING IT. yes, i'm a jerk -- feel free to address that in a seperate thread. On 12/6/05, StaticBeats <stupidnametaken@yahoo.com> wrote:

quoted 55 lines Hey all, my younger brother posted this to the Forum

> Hey all, my younger brother posted this to the Forum > on StaticBeats. I'm not much a music maker so I don't > know where to direct him. I know there are forums out > there and discussion lists where these type of answers > exist. Any insight or help you can offer is > appreciated. See below. > > I'm at the tail end of my first quarter at UCSC, and > yesterday I took my final in my favorite course of the > quarter: "History of Electronic Music." > > I'm sure my brother knows how much I enjoyed the > course, because I called him after almost every > session to tell him what cool stuff I learned. > > My experience in that class helped me decide that I > wanted to take my knowledge of music deeper (I play > guitar...) > > So I've decided to minor in electronic music... Very > Happy > > Hopefully the courses provided through UCSC will be > good, but I have a feeling they will be because most > of the professors in the department were deeply > involved in the startup companies (E-Mu specifically) > and knew Bob Moog personally, and some even knew Leon > Theremin!! (Some of these dudes are pretty old.) > > To cut a long story short, I cannot proceed with my > studies of electronic music until next year, because > the program excludes freshmen. To increase my chances > of getting into the program (25 are allowed out of the > 150 or so that apply yearly) I need to compose a few > tracks of my own. > > However, in the class, we only got tutorials on > expensive software, and I still seem to have trouble > getting the sounds I want from the program I'm using > currently (Re-birth, though I hope to upgrade to > Reason sometime soon...) > > So if any of you can give me some tips on composition, > or just want to talk about the history of this genre, > write back > > Thanks > -- > ~Elan > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

-- pete lastname meatsock@gmail.com www.grep-fu.net --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

So what you're saying is - rather than help a kid pursue his interests, we should instead drown him in some harsh truth of a "no-future" reality? College is for learning AFAIK not for purists wankers. Shimone/Justes http://www.staticbeats.com http://www.jungle-life.com http://www.boomboombap.com --- Chork the Jangler <meatsock@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 26 lines tell him he's too late -- the people who were

> tell him he's too late -- the people who were > fascinated with this > stuff in their youth when most people were busy > dreaming of firetrucks > have been composing since then, having come to the > correct conclusion > much earlier than him, and so have better technique > by now. it would > be pointless to compete with this unless he's got > the drive and the > passion to self motivate enough to teach himself. > any teacher that has > to judge the relative merits of 150 undergrad IDM > fanboys' demos > (shudder) will know in an instant that this guy is > just trying to hack > something together to get in the class, rather than > demonstrating long > hours of hard work and creative efforts. > > it can be done but imho it's unlikely given that his > first impulse was > to ask teh internot for help rather than DOING IT. > > yes, i'm a jerk -- feel free to address that in a > seperate thread.

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that's a distortion of what i said. i never said to NOT MAKE MUSIC. for fucks sake -- MAKE MUSIC. do it often and do it well. BUT, if you're going to START making music several weeks before the deadline for entry into an undergraduate program, in my opinion you're wasting your time trying to rush to meet the deadline. maknig music is an organic process and should be done intuitively, in the absence of other people who say 'DO IT THIS WAY'. it should come from the soul, not the desire to have an IDM degree. i was simply questioning his movtives; to me his request sounded like 'H1 h4x0rs r l33t t34ch m3 h0w 2 h4x0r teh p3ntag0n!!!' and YES. drown the optomistic in the truth. its the only way to prevent the inveitable disgust at learning later you've been lied to, and there is no santa claus. i'm also of the slightly controversial opinion that anyone who goes to music school will make music school music first. there is more potential for creativity in chaos than in structured learning. there's a glut of glitch-by-numbers and wanky aphex ripoff IDM out there -- this goes for all genres. we don't need to turn making music into the sort of brain factories that our diseased public schools are. flame away, fanboys. On 12/6/05, StaticBeats <stupidnametaken@yahoo.com> wrote:

quoted 47 lines So what you're saying is - rather than help a kid

> So what you're saying is - rather than help a kid > pursue his interests, we should instead drown him in > some harsh truth of a "no-future" reality? > > College is for learning AFAIK not for purists wankers. > > Shimone/Justes > http://www.staticbeats.com > http://www.jungle-life.com > http://www.boomboombap.com > > > --- Chork the Jangler <meatsock@gmail.com> wrote: > > > tell him he's too late -- the people who were > > fascinated with this > > stuff in their youth when most people were busy > > dreaming of firetrucks > > have been composing since then, having come to the > > correct conclusion > > much earlier than him, and so have better technique > > by now. it would > > be pointless to compete with this unless he's got > > the drive and the > > passion to self motivate enough to teach himself. > > any teacher that has > > to judge the relative merits of 150 undergrad IDM > > fanboys' demos > > (shudder) will know in an instant that this guy is > > just trying to hack > > something together to get in the class, rather than > > demonstrating long > > hours of hard work and creative efforts. > > > > it can be done but imho it's unlikely given that his > > first impulse was > > to ask teh internot for help rather than DOING IT. > > > > yes, i'm a jerk -- feel free to address that in a > > seperate thread. > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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Chork the Jangler wrote:

quoted 6 lines i'm also of the slightly controversial opinion that anyone who goes to

> i'm also of the slightly controversial opinion that anyone who goes to > music school will make music school music first. there is more > potential for creativity in chaos than in structured learning. there's > a glut of glitch-by-numbers and wanky aphex ripoff IDM out there -- > this goes for all genres. we don't need to turn making music into the > sort of brain factories that our diseased public schools are.

There's certainly the potential for this to be true at a lot of music schools, but by no means all. I've done the music school route three times and the culture at each place was dramatically different than all of the others. Yes, there were "music school music" people at all of them. But there were also plenty of genuinely creative people who were there to meet other genuinely creative people and get more technique. My comments aren't actually meant as a flame or a challenge to your statement - as I said, I think you're (sadly) right in many cases. But as someone who's been in the trenches and emerged with (I hope) some semblance of voice and integrity, I can say that's it's not all cookie-cutter wankery. -- Dennis DeSantis www.dennisdesantis.com Mailing List: list-subscribe@lists.dennisdesantis.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

but it is easier for a cookie-cutter wanker to flourish in these environments than it would be if they were left to their own devices -- a sort of musical darwinisim is perhaps what i suggest as the ideal here. it's easier for someone only partly interested in music to keep making music with the hopes of being an IDM star if they're enrolled in an expensive 4 year program, when i think it'd be best for music IN GENERAL if these people lost interest and sold their gear at the first sign of boringness (certainly it's not the best case for the individual) it's like, if you had a garden that was excellent at growing the weaker seeds of one type of rare and exotic plant, but was also a haven for weeds and termites to 3 times the extent of a random clearing in the forest, would it be worth growing that one type of plant when it is just as possible for the heartiest of those special seeds to take root and grow without your help? i suggest that in some cases yes, but in most, sadly not. and yes, this is a shitty analogy, feel free to flame me about that. one more point:

quoted 3 lines But there were also

> But there were also > plenty of genuinely creative people who were there to meet other > genuinely creative people and get more technique.

you don't need to pay tuition to meet creative people -- in fact the most inspiringly creative people i've met would probably sneer in derision at a school for making the type of music they did (i.e. punk school or something, kwim?) also, the inference could be drawn that i'm biased against music schools having never had the chance to go to one when i was starving for knowledge. i'll say this though, i wouldn't do it differently than i did if i had the chance, i think! On 12/7/05, Dennis DeSantis <dennis@dennisdesantis.com> wrote:

quoted 38 lines Chork the Jangler wrote:

> Chork the Jangler wrote: > > > i'm also of the slightly controversial opinion that anyone who goes to > > music school will make music school music first. there is more > > potential for creativity in chaos than in structured learning. there's > > a glut of glitch-by-numbers and wanky aphex ripoff IDM out there -- > > this goes for all genres. we don't need to turn making music into the > > sort of brain factories that our diseased public schools are. > > There's certainly the potential for this to be true at a lot of music > schools, but by no means all. > I've done the music school route three times and the culture at each > place was dramatically different than all of the others. Yes, there > were "music school music" people at all of them. But there were also > plenty of genuinely creative people who were there to meet other > genuinely creative people and get more technique. > > My comments aren't actually meant as a flame or a challenge to your > statement - as I said, I think you're (sadly) right in many cases. But > as someone who's been in the trenches and emerged with (I hope) some > semblance of voice and integrity, I can say that's it's not all > cookie-cutter wankery. > > > -- > Dennis DeSantis > www.dennisdesantis.com > > > Mailing List: > list-subscribe@lists.dennisdesantis.com > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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there is no excuse for discouraging honest artistic effort; there is no age past which one can not create beauty. if everyone gave up because there was someone more skilled or more experianced in making their own type of art, nothing would ever be made. feel free to express your negativity someplace else. back to the topic- i highly suggest checking out ableton- it's not perfect for everything, but its easy to grasp and one can quickly get ideas onto a computer. just spend about a month with it and just see what happens. it won't be mind blowing to start, but if you're really into it, its the begining of a process that you'll be on for years. peace, giessel. -- Andrew Giessel http://giessel.com [url] andrew@giessel.com [email] andrewgiessel [aim] On Tue, 6 Dec 2005, Chork the Jangler wrote:

quoted 83 lines tell him he's too late -- the people who were fascinated with this

> tell him he's too late -- the people who were fascinated with this > stuff in their youth when most people were busy dreaming of firetrucks > have been composing since then, having come to the correct conclusion > much earlier than him, and so have better technique by now. it would > be pointless to compete with this unless he's got the drive and the > passion to self motivate enough to teach himself. any teacher that has > to judge the relative merits of 150 undergrad IDM fanboys' demos > (shudder) will know in an instant that this guy is just trying to hack > something together to get in the class, rather than demonstrating long > hours of hard work and creative efforts. > > it can be done but imho it's unlikely given that his first impulse was > to ask teh internot for help rather than DOING IT. > > yes, i'm a jerk -- feel free to address that in a seperate thread. > > On 12/6/05, StaticBeats <stupidnametaken@yahoo.com> wrote: >> Hey all, my younger brother posted this to the Forum >> on StaticBeats. I'm not much a music maker so I don't >> know where to direct him. I know there are forums out >> there and discussion lists where these type of answers >> exist. Any insight or help you can offer is >> appreciated. See below. >> >> I'm at the tail end of my first quarter at UCSC, and >> yesterday I took my final in my favorite course of the >> quarter: "History of Electronic Music." >> >> I'm sure my brother knows how much I enjoyed the >> course, because I called him after almost every >> session to tell him what cool stuff I learned. >> >> My experience in that class helped me decide that I >> wanted to take my knowledge of music deeper (I play >> guitar...) >> >> So I've decided to minor in electronic music... Very >> Happy >> >> Hopefully the courses provided through UCSC will be >> good, but I have a feeling they will be because most >> of the professors in the department were deeply >> involved in the startup companies (E-Mu specifically) >> and knew Bob Moog personally, and some even knew Leon >> Theremin!! (Some of these dudes are pretty old.) >> >> To cut a long story short, I cannot proceed with my >> studies of electronic music until next year, because >> the program excludes freshmen. To increase my chances >> of getting into the program (25 are allowed out of the >> 150 or so that apply yearly) I need to compose a few >> tracks of my own. >> >> However, in the class, we only got tutorials on >> expensive software, and I still seem to have trouble >> getting the sounds I want from the program I'm using >> currently (Re-birth, though I hope to upgrade to >> Reason sometime soon...) >> >> So if any of you can give me some tips on composition, >> or just want to talk about the history of this genre, >> write back >> >> Thanks >> -- >> ~Elan >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >> >> > > > -- > pete lastname > meatsock@gmail.com > www.grep-fu.net > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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ya know, it's funny... i read the initial posting by StaticBeats and thought "that's pretty fucking cool..." and then i saw how many were responding, though not reading them, and thought "damn, this is a wicked list. an upstart calls out and his needs are answered in earnest..." *lord have mercy on the weak, wretched souls that talk down to those who move in new directions. amen.* to add, i would say this to the StaticB Jr..... DON'T DO WHAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE DOING!!!! if you get the same midi-keyboard and software as everyone else you will sound just like the rest (though not to say that mastery of such tools cannot certainly bring endless inovation)... i would say take a unique approach... this is what i did for years... download ProTools free software (a very userfriendly, 8 track recording software with friendly pan and volume controls) and get some old weird electronic toys and gear and a microphone and some pots and pans and an fm radio and try to make something new from the start. take a different approach that will lead more directly to something unique. hell, anything using a microphone is "electronic"! yes, a lot of the other submissions will sound GREAT, but they will sound the same. though i know nothing of this program, i would bank that you may have better luck submitting something much more rougharoundtheedges, but with class and dignity... : >

quoted 118 lines From: Andrew Giessel <andrew@giessel.com>

>From: Andrew Giessel <andrew@giessel.com> >To: idm@hyperreal.org >Subject: Re: [idm] Student of Electronic Music requests help >Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 19:49:56 -0500 (EST) > >there is no excuse for discouraging honest artistic effort; there is no age >past which one can not create beauty. if everyone gave up because there was >someone more skilled or more experianced in making their own type of art, >nothing would ever be made. feel free to express your negativity someplace >else. > >back to the topic- i highly suggest checking out ableton- it's not perfect >for everything, but its easy to grasp and one can quickly get ideas onto a >computer. just spend about a month with it and just see what happens. it >won't be mind blowing to start, but if you're really into it, its the >begining of a process that you'll be on for years. > >peace, > >giessel. > >-- > >Andrew Giessel >http://giessel.com [url] >andrew@giessel.com [email] >andrewgiessel [aim] > >On Tue, 6 Dec 2005, Chork the Jangler wrote: > >>tell him he's too late -- the people who were fascinated with this >>stuff in their youth when most people were busy dreaming of firetrucks >>have been composing since then, having come to the correct conclusion >>much earlier than him, and so have better technique by now. it would >>be pointless to compete with this unless he's got the drive and the >>passion to self motivate enough to teach himself. any teacher that has >>to judge the relative merits of 150 undergrad IDM fanboys' demos >>(shudder) will know in an instant that this guy is just trying to hack >>something together to get in the class, rather than demonstrating long >>hours of hard work and creative efforts. >> >>it can be done but imho it's unlikely given that his first impulse was >>to ask teh internot for help rather than DOING IT. >> >>yes, i'm a jerk -- feel free to address that in a seperate thread. >> >>On 12/6/05, StaticBeats <stupidnametaken@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>Hey all, my younger brother posted this to the Forum >>>on StaticBeats. I'm not much a music maker so I don't >>>know where to direct him. I know there are forums out >>>there and discussion lists where these type of answers >>>exist. Any insight or help you can offer is >>>appreciated. See below. >>> >>>I'm at the tail end of my first quarter at UCSC, and >>>yesterday I took my final in my favorite course of the >>>quarter: "History of Electronic Music." >>> >>>I'm sure my brother knows how much I enjoyed the >>>course, because I called him after almost every >>>session to tell him what cool stuff I learned. >>> >>>My experience in that class helped me decide that I >>>wanted to take my knowledge of music deeper (I play >>>guitar...) >>> >>>So I've decided to minor in electronic music... Very >>>Happy >>> >>>Hopefully the courses provided through UCSC will be >>>good, but I have a feeling they will be because most >>>of the professors in the department were deeply >>>involved in the startup companies (E-Mu specifically) >>>and knew Bob Moog personally, and some even knew Leon >>>Theremin!! (Some of these dudes are pretty old.) >>> >>>To cut a long story short, I cannot proceed with my >>>studies of electronic music until next year, because >>>the program excludes freshmen. To increase my chances >>>of getting into the program (25 are allowed out of the >>>150 or so that apply yearly) I need to compose a few >>>tracks of my own. >>> >>>However, in the class, we only got tutorials on >>>expensive software, and I still seem to have trouble >>>getting the sounds I want from the program I'm using >>>currently (Re-birth, though I hope to upgrade to >>>Reason sometime soon...) >>> >>>So if any of you can give me some tips on composition, >>>or just want to talk about the history of this genre, >>>write back >>> >>>Thanks >>>-- >>>~Elan >>> >>>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >>>For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >>> >>> >> >> >>-- >>pete lastname >>meatsock@gmail.com >>www.grep-fu.net >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >>For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >> > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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in ways i agree in ways I disagree. I know many people with the same programs who produce a wide range of different things. You can get any program that runs VST's and go through sites of homemade, free VST's, download a boatload of obscure ones that all do different things, and learn how to use them in bizzare ways. Its a hell of a lot cheaper than buying gear. Plus Pro-Tools LE is such an awfully constricting program and ass backwards for someone just diving into sound engineering to learn. But yes, definately don't model your sounds off of other music. As Richard James and Ralph Hutter both say "I don't listen to music." As in they don't let other people's music influence there music. In an interview with Ralph he said he gets almost all of his influence from nature. nat hawks <natbot@hotmail.com> wrote: ya know, it's funny... i read the initial posting by StaticBeats and thought "that's pretty fucking cool..." and then i saw how many were responding, though not reading them, and thought "damn, this is a wicked list. an upstart calls out and his needs are answered in earnest..." *lord have mercy on the weak, wretched souls that talk down to those who move in new directions. amen.* to add, i would say this to the StaticB Jr..... DON'T DO WHAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE DOING!!!! if you get the same midi-keyboard and software as everyone else you will sound just like the rest (though not to say that mastery of such tools cannot certainly bring endless inovation)... i would say take a unique approach... this is what i did for years... download ProTools free software (a very userfriendly, 8 track recording software with friendly pan and volume controls) and get some old weird electronic toys and gear and a microphone and some pots and pans and an fm radio and try to make something new from the start. take a different approach that will lead more directly to something unique. hell, anything using a microphone is "electronic"! yes, a lot of the other submissions will sound GREAT, but they will sound the same. though i know nothing of this program, i would bank that you may have better luck submitting something much more rougharoundtheedges, but with class and dignity... : >

quoted 118 lines From: Andrew Giessel

>From: Andrew Giessel >To: idm@hyperreal.org >Subject: Re: [idm] Student of Electronic Music requests help >Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 19:49:56 -0500 (EST) > >there is no excuse for discouraging honest artistic effort; there is no age >past which one can not create beauty. if everyone gave up because there was >someone more skilled or more experianced in making their own type of art, >nothing would ever be made. feel free to express your negativity someplace >else. > >back to the topic- i highly suggest checking out ableton- it's not perfect >for everything, but its easy to grasp and one can quickly get ideas onto a >computer. just spend about a month with it and just see what happens. it >won't be mind blowing to start, but if you're really into it, its the >begining of a process that you'll be on for years. > >peace, > >giessel. > >-- > >Andrew Giessel >http://giessel.com [url] >andrew@giessel.com [email] >andrewgiessel [aim] > >On Tue, 6 Dec 2005, Chork the Jangler wrote: > >>tell him he's too late -- the people who were fascinated with this >>stuff in their youth when most people were busy dreaming of firetrucks >>have been composing since then, having come to the correct conclusion >>much earlier than him, and so have better technique by now. it would >>be pointless to compete with this unless he's got the drive and the >>passion to self motivate enough to teach himself. any teacher that has >>to judge the relative merits of 150 undergrad IDM fanboys' demos >>(shudder) will know in an instant that this guy is just trying to hack >>something together to get in the class, rather than demonstrating long >>hours of hard work and creative efforts. >> >>it can be done but imho it's unlikely given that his first impulse was >>to ask teh internot for help rather than DOING IT. >> >>yes, i'm a jerk -- feel free to address that in a seperate thread. >> >>On 12/6/05, StaticBeats wrote: >>>Hey all, my younger brother posted this to the Forum >>>on StaticBeats. I'm not much a music maker so I don't >>>know where to direct him. I know there are forums out >>>there and discussion lists where these type of answers >>>exist. Any insight or help you can offer is >>>appreciated. See below. >>> >>>I'm at the tail end of my first quarter at UCSC, and >>>yesterday I took my final in my favorite course of the >>>quarter: "History of Electronic Music." >>> >>>I'm sure my brother knows how much I enjoyed the >>>course, because I called him after almost every >>>session to tell him what cool stuff I learned. >>> >>>My experience in that class helped me decide that I >>>wanted to take my knowledge of music deeper (I play >>>guitar...) >>> >>>So I've decided to minor in electronic music... Very >>>Happy >>> >>>Hopefully the courses provided through UCSC will be >>>good, but I have a feeling they will be because most >>>of the professors in the department were deeply >>>involved in the startup companies (E-Mu specifically) >>>and knew Bob Moog personally, and some even knew Leon >>>Theremin!! (Some of these dudes are pretty old.) >>> >>>To cut a long story short, I cannot proceed with my >>>studies of electronic music until next year, because >>>the program excludes freshmen. To increase my chances >>>of getting into the program (25 are allowed out of the >>>150 or so that apply yearly) I need to compose a few >>>tracks of my own. >>> >>>However, in the class, we only got tutorials on >>>expensive software, and I still seem to have trouble >>>getting the sounds I want from the program I'm using >>>currently (Re-birth, though I hope to upgrade to >>>Reason sometime soon...) >>> >>>So if any of you can give me some tips on composition, >>>or just want to talk about the history of this genre, >>>write back >>> >>>Thanks >>>-- >>>~Elan >>> >>>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >>>For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >>> >>> >> >> >>-- >>pete lastname >>meatsock@gmail.com >>www.grep-fu.net >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >>For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >> > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

_________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org Ed Churchman aim: echurchm86 yim: echurch86 http://metaphysical.torontonian.com/ --------------------------------- Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less

Excellent thread, definately. I really liked the suggestion by nat hawks. I have been using Live 4 ever since it was released, and I'm deeply in love with it. BUT, the Protools, audio-only approach ( I didn't know about this 8-Track free version. Does it work on all platforms and soundcards?). As I'm studyind audio engineering myself and most of the sequencing and tracking is done on protools at my school, this could be very useful for me, to learn about the interface, shortcuts, etc. Not to mention that the approach will be quite different than the one I have been using in Ableton. Thanks for the tip. And Thanks to a z for mentioning this Live list, looking forward to it. Peace, Chase the void... maybe you'll find something along the way. On 12/7/05, nat hawks <natbot@hotmail.com> wrote:

quoted 173 lines ya know, it's funny...

> > ya know, it's funny... > > i read the initial posting by StaticBeats and thought "that's pretty > fucking > cool..." > > and then i saw how many were responding, though not reading them, and > thought "damn, this is a wicked list. an upstart calls out and his needs > are answered in earnest..." > > *lord have mercy on the weak, wretched souls that talk down to those who > move in new directions. amen.* > > to add, i would say this to the StaticB Jr..... DON'T DO WHAT OTHER PEOPLE > ARE DOING!!!! > > if you get the same midi-keyboard and software as everyone else you will > sound just like the rest (though not to say that mastery of such tools > cannot certainly bring endless inovation)... > > i would say take a unique approach... this is what i did for years... > download ProTools free software (a very userfriendly, 8 track recording > software with friendly pan and volume controls) and get some old weird > electronic toys and gear and a microphone and some pots and pans and an fm > radio and try to make something new from the start. take a different > approach that will lead more directly to something unique. hell, anything > using a microphone is "electronic"! > > yes, a lot of the other submissions will sound GREAT, but they will sound > the same. though i know nothing of this program, i would bank that you > may > have better luck submitting something much more rougharoundtheedges, but > with class and dignity... > > : > > > > >From: Andrew Giessel <andrew@giessel.com> > >To: idm@hyperreal.org > >Subject: Re: [idm] Student of Electronic Music requests help > >Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 19:49:56 -0500 (EST) > > > >there is no excuse for discouraging honest artistic effort; there is no > age > >past which one can not create beauty. if everyone gave up because there > was > >someone more skilled or more experianced in making their own type of art, > >nothing would ever be made. feel free to express your negativity > someplace > >else. > > > >back to the topic- i highly suggest checking out ableton- it's not > perfect > >for everything, but its easy to grasp and one can quickly get ideas onto > a > >computer. just spend about a month with it and just see what > happens. it > >won't be mind blowing to start, but if you're really into it, its the > >begining of a process that you'll be on for years. > > > >peace, > > > >giessel. > > > >-- > > > >Andrew Giessel > >http://giessel.com [url] > >andrew@giessel.com [email] > >andrewgiessel [aim] > > > >On Tue, 6 Dec 2005, Chork the Jangler wrote: > > > >>tell him he's too late -- the people who were fascinated with this > >>stuff in their youth when most people were busy dreaming of firetrucks > >>have been composing since then, having come to the correct conclusion > >>much earlier than him, and so have better technique by now. it would > >>be pointless to compete with this unless he's got the drive and the > >>passion to self motivate enough to teach himself. any teacher that has > >>to judge the relative merits of 150 undergrad IDM fanboys' demos > >>(shudder) will know in an instant that this guy is just trying to hack > >>something together to get in the class, rather than demonstrating long > >>hours of hard work and creative efforts. > >> > >>it can be done but imho it's unlikely given that his first impulse was > >>to ask teh internot for help rather than DOING IT. > >> > >>yes, i'm a jerk -- feel free to address that in a seperate thread. > >> > >>On 12/6/05, StaticBeats <stupidnametaken@yahoo.com> wrote: > >>>Hey all, my younger brother posted this to the Forum > >>>on StaticBeats. I'm not much a music maker so I don't > >>>know where to direct him. I know there are forums out > >>>there and discussion lists where these type of answers > >>>exist. Any insight or help you can offer is > >>>appreciated. See below. > >>> > >>>I'm at the tail end of my first quarter at UCSC, and > >>>yesterday I took my final in my favorite course of the > >>>quarter: "History of Electronic Music." > >>> > >>>I'm sure my brother knows how much I enjoyed the > >>>course, because I called him after almost every > >>>session to tell him what cool stuff I learned. > >>> > >>>My experience in that class helped me decide that I > >>>wanted to take my knowledge of music deeper (I play > >>>guitar...) > >>> > >>>So I've decided to minor in electronic music... Very > >>>Happy > >>> > >>>Hopefully the courses provided through UCSC will be > >>>good, but I have a feeling they will be because most > >>>of the professors in the department were deeply > >>>involved in the startup companies (E-Mu specifically) > >>>and knew Bob Moog personally, and some even knew Leon > >>>Theremin!! (Some of these dudes are pretty old.) > >>> > >>>To cut a long story short, I cannot proceed with my > >>>studies of electronic music until next year, because > >>>the program excludes freshmen. To increase my chances > >>>of getting into the program (25 are allowed out of the > >>>150 or so that apply yearly) I need to compose a few > >>>tracks of my own. > >>> > >>>However, in the class, we only got tutorials on > >>>expensive software, and I still seem to have trouble > >>>getting the sounds I want from the program I'm using > >>>currently (Re-birth, though I hope to upgrade to > >>>Reason sometime soon...) > >>> > >>>So if any of you can give me some tips on composition, > >>>or just want to talk about the history of this genre, > >>>write back > >>> > >>>Thanks > >>>-- > >>>~Elan > >>> > >>>--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > >>>For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >>-- > >>pete lastname > >>meatsock@gmail.com > >>www.grep-fu.net > >> > >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > >>For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >> > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! > http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

-- -=[Rather Than Love, Than Money, Than Fame, Give Me Truth]=-

i would say join the idm making list here http://www.ampfea.org/mailman/listinfo/idm-making i am only part of the idm making list but they host a few others - one being a live list - http://www.ampfea.org/community.php?a=1&order=a-z remeber there is cheap and free software out there so you don't have to buy expensive software to make music best of luck to ya -a. StaticBeats <stupidnametaken@yahoo.com> wrote: Hey all, my younger brother posted this to the Forum on StaticBeats. I'm not much a music maker so I don't know where to direct him. I know there are forums out there and discussion lists where these type of answers exist. Any insight or help you can offer is appreciated. See below. I'm at the tail end of my first quarter at UCSC, and yesterday I took my final in my favorite course of the quarter: "History of Electronic Music." I'm sure my brother knows how much I enjoyed the course, because I called him after almost every session to tell him what cool stuff I learned. My experience in that class helped me decide that I wanted to take my knowledge of music deeper (I play guitar...) So I've decided to minor in electronic music... Very Happy Hopefully the courses provided through UCSC will be good, but I have a feeling they will be because most of the professors in the department were deeply involved in the startup companies (E-Mu specifically) and knew Bob Moog personally, and some even knew Leon Theremin!! (Some of these dudes are pretty old.) To cut a long story short, I cannot proceed with my studies of electronic music until next year, because the program excludes freshmen. To increase my chances of getting into the program (25 are allowed out of the 150 or so that apply yearly) I need to compose a few tracks of my own. However, in the class, we only got tutorials on expensive software, and I still seem to have trouble getting the sounds I want from the program I'm using currently (Re-birth, though I hope to upgrade to Reason sometime soon...) So if any of you can give me some tips on composition, or just want to talk about the history of this genre, write back Thanks -- ~Elan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org --------------------------------- Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less

What? Mochipet teaches an Ableton Live class? I'm moving. -----Original Message----- From: forest green [mailto:forestgreenlistmail@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 6:33 PM To: mochipet@dalycityrecords.com; StaticBeats; Intolerable Daily Madness Subject: Re: [idm] Student of Electronic Music requests help Hi there, I have a great idea! I took Mochipet's Ableton Live class last semester at SFSU extension and it was awesome! The final in the class is a whole song composed by you, and he is an amazing teacher! I learned so much! This one class got me composing electronic music right away. I am now writing all kinds of my own music using Live, and I really love it! =) You should check it out! Best, Forest --- StaticBeats <stupidnametaken@yahoo.com> wrote:

quoted 61 lines Hey all, my younger brother posted this to the Forum

> Hey all, my younger brother posted this to the Forum > on StaticBeats. I'm not much a music maker so I > don't > know where to direct him. I know there are forums > out > there and discussion lists where these type of > answers > exist. Any insight or help you can offer is > appreciated. See below. > > I'm at the tail end of my first quarter at UCSC, and > yesterday I took my final in my favorite course of > the > quarter: "History of Electronic Music." > > I'm sure my brother knows how much I enjoyed the > course, because I called him after almost every > session to tell him what cool stuff I learned. > > My experience in that class helped me decide that I > wanted to take my knowledge of music deeper (I play > guitar...) > > So I've decided to minor in electronic music... Very > Happy > > Hopefully the courses provided through UCSC will be > good, but I have a feeling they will be because most > of the professors in the department were deeply > involved in the startup companies (E-Mu > specifically) > and knew Bob Moog personally, and some even knew > Leon > Theremin!! (Some of these dudes are pretty old.) > > To cut a long story short, I cannot proceed with my > studies of electronic music until next year, because > the program excludes freshmen. To increase my > chances > of getting into the program (25 are allowed out of > the > 150 or so that apply yearly) I need to compose a few > tracks of my own. > > However, in the class, we only got tutorials on > expensive software, and I still seem to have trouble > getting the sounds I want from the program I'm using > currently (Re-birth, though I hope to upgrade to > Reason sometime soon...) > > So if any of you can give me some tips on > composition, > or just want to talk about the history of this > genre, > write back > > Thanks > -- > ~Elan > >

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quoted 6 lines To unsubscribe, e-mail:

> To unsubscribe, e-mail: > idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: > idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

forest green: http://www.forestgreen.org/about sister usa: http://www.sisterusa.com dim sum: http://www.dalycityrecords.com/dimsum cloud factory: http://www.cloudfactory.org friends and family: http://www.fnf.org __________________________________________ Yahoo! DSL - Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I picked up combat a couple of months ago. Damn that is an awesome album. I can't put that thing down. Obed Vento <ovento@keyleadsonline.com> wrote: What? Mochipet teaches an Ableton Live class? I'm moving. -----Original Message----- From: forest green [mailto:forestgreenlistmail@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 6:33 PM To: mochipet@dalycityrecords.com; StaticBeats; Intolerable Daily Madness Subject: Re: [idm] Student of Electronic Music requests help Hi there, I have a great idea! I took Mochipet's Ableton Live class last semester at SFSU extension and it was awesome! The final in the class is a whole song composed by you, and he is an amazing teacher! I learned so much! This one class got me composing electronic music right away. I am now writing all kinds of my own music using Live, and I really love it! =) You should check it out! Best, Forest --- StaticBeats wrote:

quoted 61 lines Hey all, my younger brother posted this to the Forum

> Hey all, my younger brother posted this to the Forum > on StaticBeats. I'm not much a music maker so I > don't > know where to direct him. I know there are forums > out > there and discussion lists where these type of > answers > exist. Any insight or help you can offer is > appreciated. See below. > > I'm at the tail end of my first quarter at UCSC, and > yesterday I took my final in my favorite course of > the > quarter: "History of Electronic Music." > > I'm sure my brother knows how much I enjoyed the > course, because I called him after almost every > session to tell him what cool stuff I learned. > > My experience in that class helped me decide that I > wanted to take my knowledge of music deeper (I play > guitar...) > > So I've decided to minor in electronic music... Very > Happy > > Hopefully the courses provided through UCSC will be > good, but I have a feeling they will be because most > of the professors in the department were deeply > involved in the startup companies (E-Mu > specifically) > and knew Bob Moog personally, and some even knew > Leon > Theremin!! (Some of these dudes are pretty old.) > > To cut a long story short, I cannot proceed with my > studies of electronic music until next year, because > the program excludes freshmen. To increase my > chances > of getting into the program (25 are allowed out of > the > 150 or so that apply yearly) I need to compose a few > tracks of my own. > > However, in the class, we only got tutorials on > expensive software, and I still seem to have trouble > getting the sounds I want from the program I'm using > currently (Re-birth, though I hope to upgrade to > Reason sometime soon...) > > So if any of you can give me some tips on > composition, > or just want to talk about the history of this > genre, > write back > > Thanks > -- > ~Elan > >

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quoted 6 lines To unsubscribe, e-mail:

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forest green: http://www.forestgreen.org/about sister usa: http://www.sisterusa.com dim sum: http://www.dalycityrecords.com/dimsum cloud factory: http://www.cloudfactory.org friends and family: http://www.fnf.org __________________________________________ Yahoo! DSL - Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org Ed Churchman aim: echurchm86 yim: echurch86 http://metaphysical.torontonian.com/ --------------------------------- Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less

Yeah, this is University of California Santa Cruz. I didn't know they offered anything so cool either :) Shimone/Justes http://www.staticbeats.com http://www.jungle-life.com http://www.boomboombap.com --- no reserve <speechless1974@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 79 lines Which university is this? U of CA Santa Cruz?? Just

> Which university is this? U of CA Santa Cruz?? Just > curious, they didn't > offer anything so cool where I went to school (U of > VA). > > On 12/6/05, StaticBeats <stupidnametaken@yahoo.com> > wrote: > > > > Hey all, my younger brother posted this to the > Forum > > on StaticBeats. I'm not much a music maker so I > don't > > know where to direct him. I know there are forums > out > > there and discussion lists where these type of > answers > > exist. Any insight or help you can offer is > > appreciated. See below. > > > > I'm at the tail end of my first quarter at UCSC, > and > > yesterday I took my final in my favorite course of > the > > quarter: "History of Electronic Music." > > > > I'm sure my brother knows how much I enjoyed the > > course, because I called him after almost every > > session to tell him what cool stuff I learned. > > > > My experience in that class helped me decide that > I > > wanted to take my knowledge of music deeper (I > play > > guitar...) > > > > So I've decided to minor in electronic music... > Very > > Happy > > > > Hopefully the courses provided through UCSC will > be > > good, but I have a feeling they will be because > most > > of the professors in the department were deeply > > involved in the startup companies (E-Mu > specifically) > > and knew Bob Moog personally, and some even knew > Leon > > Theremin!! (Some of these dudes are pretty old.) > > > > To cut a long story short, I cannot proceed with > my > > studies of electronic music until next year, > because > > the program excludes freshmen. To increase my > chances > > of getting into the program (25 are allowed out of > the > > 150 or so that apply yearly) I need to compose a > few > > tracks of my own. > > > > However, in the class, we only got tutorials on > > expensive software, and I still seem to have > trouble > > getting the sounds I want from the program I'm > using > > currently (Re-birth, though I hope to upgrade to > > Reason sometime soon...) > > > > So if any of you can give me some tips on > composition, > > or just want to talk about the history of this > genre, > > write back > > > > Thanks > > -- > > ~Elan

quoted 1 line

>

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If he plans on continuing to use Reason/Rebirth, they have excellent tutorials on the site that should get him up and running. But I have to highly recommend transitioning to Ableton live, particularly since he's a guitarist and Live allows for realtime input. The best forums for this stuff are usually hosted by the software companies - propellerheads' forum is great, as is ableton's live forum. If he wants more engineering oriented advice, the Sound on Sound forums are good, as are those at ProSoundWeb. Other than that, I'm sure there are genre specific production lists for whatever he's interested in. for example, for psychedelic oriented music there's dreamweavers. good luck and have fun --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I suggest jumping right into Max/MSP (http://www.cycling74.com), PD (http://puredata.info) or SuperCollider (http://www.audiosynth.com). All are beginner-oriented, and provide the shortest distance between the sounds you have in your head and realizing them on the computer. The absolute easiest approach though is to simply do everything in Csound (http://www.csounds.com) -- all you have to do is launch the program and lush, engaging soundscapes practically jump out of the speakers! Hope this helps ;-) w -- wallace winfrey wally@booyaka.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org