IDM Mailing Archive

leafcutter <leafcutter.john@virgin.net> wrote:

quoted 1 line Is IDM art though?

>Is IDM art though?

aw heck -- it ain't no chair nor a hammer nor a pack of gum. it's culture. it's music, which has, since ancient times, been recognized as one of the arts. In short, there's no way for it NOT to be art. whether it's GOOD art or not, you be the judge. whether it relates to some "high art" tradition, like the classical music tradition or the modern artworld of museums and galleries, that's another question. obviously a bunch of IDM artists have this or that in common with various composers who do the concert hall/opera house gigs, but I don't think the critical and academic apparatus that surrounds classical music is particularly appropriate for most IDM. IDM, which is clearly derived from popular forms, is essentially less rigorous but also less pretentious than most contemporary classical music. Personally, I can't stand most of the crap I hear coming out of classical music schools these days, so I'm satisfied that IDM is more of a "middlebrow" art. gets especially slippery when music meets the contemporary visual arts, as that scene has been making a concerted attack on the divisions between "high/elitist" and "low/popular" art for about a century. Warhol promoting the Velvets is part of why we think they're "art". so yeah, I mean probably most IDM has as much claim to being "high art" as most of the stuff in a contemporary gallery, but who cares? Galleries are for selling expensive objects to rich people...I prefer buying a cheap copy at a record store personally. But, that said, certain IDM'ers have a foot in the visual art world -- for instance, Thomas Brinkmann, Terre Thaemlitz and Marcus Popp --their concepts and presentation are informed by trends and ideas in the visual artworld. Doesn't mean that they have more claim to being art than musicians quite outside the artworld, they're just a certain trip. k --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Got this one last night and was pleased yet surprised to see some diferences in the artwork, (hehe) I compared the 2 sleeves and noticed this one was folded wrong (perhaps the printer fucked up, it's happened to me b4, bastards!....colors are a bit more intense and the varnish didn't come through as good....I was hoping it would be a bit different since our old one is so valuable...had to get it though, color vinyl looses sound quality over the years,. this one will be officially framed and posted on my wall.... :) thank you dr. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

"kurt(bway.net)" wrote:

quoted 11 lines obviously a bunch of IDM artists have this or that in common with

> > obviously a bunch of IDM artists have this or that in common with > various composers who do the concert hall/opera house gigs, but I > don't think the critical and academic apparatus that surrounds > classical music is particularly appropriate for most IDM. IDM, which > is clearly derived from popular forms, is essentially less rigorous > but also less pretentious than most contemporary classical music. > Personally, I can't stand most of the crap I hear coming out of > classical music schools these days, so I'm satisfied that IDM is more > of a "middlebrow" art. >

Just because someone is a supposedly 'trained' composer doesn't mean they know more about creating great and lasting art/music than anyone else. (Take it from me, I'm doing a graduate degree right now...) I think it's a mistake to accept this high/low art dichotomy in the first place, I don't believe it helps us to understand what's going on with different genres of music. Personally I think there is more important contemporary work happening in IDM than the academic world, so it doesn't make sense to me to say that music coming out of conservatories is by definition 'higher' in some sense. John -- John von Seggern DJ/producer Digital Cutup Lounge Hong Kong http://www.digitalcutuplounge.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

"kurt(bway.net)" wrote:

quoted 3 lines I think it's a mistake to accept this high/low art dichotomy in the

> >I think it's a mistake to accept this high/low art dichotomy in the > >first place, I don't believe it helps us to understand what's going on > >with different genres of music.

quoted 3 lines I don't know. I'm no snob. but having spent a lot of time with

> I don't know. I'm no snob. but having spent a lot of time with > electronica in the last couple years, i'd have to say that most of it > isn't built to last particularly, it's casual, disposable culture.

I agree -- but what does that have to do with high/low art? I think the 'disposable' nature of much electronic music may have more to do with the accelerated speed at which our culture is changing, as well as the 'open form' characteristic of many tracks -- by which I mean that your average techno track isn't really a composition in itself, it's meant as construction material for a DJ to use. Having said that, though, there are certainly IDM/techno/drum'n'bass whatever recordings that I would consider 'classic' and that I expect to continue selling for a long time to come. I love some of Derrick May's earliest Detroit tracks for example, and still play them at gigs sometimes.

quoted 5 lines I

> I > don't know, I guess the same is true of a lot of stuff in the > classical world, though, at its best, that world has a lot more > intellectual support (teachers, books, critics, history, theory, etc) > which can prod people towards more complex achievements.

I dislike most of the music that comes out of that world because it's 100% head music in most cases, while great dance music addresses the whole person, mind and body. In the case of 'classical' music, this is a reflection of the mind/body split which has troubled Western civilization for centuries... I'm really interested in the crossover which seems to be having at the far end of IDM and academia, though. I attended a recent meeting of SEAMUS (the Society for Electro-Acoustic Music in the US) and had one of my abstract pieces played there in March, it was interesting to see just how little difference there is between some of the music coming from electronic composers in academia and recent Autechre, for example. It seems to be taboo to use a regular beat in academia, however... John -- John von Seggern DJ/producer Digital Cutup Lounge Hong Kong http://www.digitalcutuplounge.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

No, really - Isn't all art, when you boil it down to its most fundamental level, just IDM in disguise? -- me __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

At 16:32 18.05.2001 -0700, you wrote: I really ask myself what the fundamental level of any art is. If you take visual arts into consideration you have artists like Josef Beuys and Salvador Dali for example, both contributing to modern art at their time in the most opposite way imaginable. It is all art. The same thing to modern music: Steve Reich and autechre. Very different in style but to some extend parallel. So what is the basic idea of art in general? I think each of us has to answer that question to himself. An overall definition is quite difficult, I think. What is art to one could be junk to another. One thing all art has in common is the fact that it reaches public somehow. (with visual means in the museum, in galleries and at home, or as an auditive presentation on vinyl or CD - everywhere music is played for dance, background ambience etc.) (Any) Art cannot be IDM, I think. There are too many manifestations of art anyhow. And not all art makes you dance I'm afraid. But to me all IDM is art because it does something to people. Even if music evokes your disgust it lets you feel something and this is what I think art is all about. Anything that makes me think different from the everyday train of thoughts is art to me, could even be TV commercials or elevator jazz(in the most extreme case ;)). The most important aspect of art is, if it is interesting somehow. What made Man Rays "ready mades" iteresting was the fact that he put everyday things in a completely different surrounding. Same to Matthew Herbert using all kind of sounds and noise in, and as music. To me there must be something different in it, something new, creative, weird, intelligent or whatever feeling or thought you could imagine... And it does not matter if I like it or not to make it art. Hmm, even Adams posting might be art to me because I gave it a thought... Maybe this not at all too plausible but this is what I think personally ;). Best wishes to all of you, Peter

quoted 2 lines No, really - Isn't all art, when you boil it down to

>No, really - Isn't all art, when you boil it down to >its most fundamental level, just IDM in disguise?

...feel free to visit: http://www.peter-spiess.de/ "After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is Music" (A.Huxley)... --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Um, this was a joke post... --- "Peter F. Spiess" <info@peter-spiess.de> wrote:

quoted 3 lines I really ask myself what the fundamental level of

> > I really ask myself what the fundamental level of > any art is. If you take visual arts into

[blah blah blah...]

quoted 19 lines At 16:32 18.05.2001 -0700, Adam wrote:

> > At 16:32 18.05.2001 -0700, Adam wrote: > >No, really - Isn't all art, when you boil it down > to > >its most fundamental level, just IDM in disguise? > > > > > > > > ...feel free to visit: http://www.peter-spiess.de/ > "After silence, that which comes nearest > to expressing the inexpressible is Music" > (A.Huxley)... > > >

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quoted 5 lines To unsubscribe, e-mail:

> To unsubscribe, e-mail: > idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: > idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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At 06:41 19.05.2001 -0700, you wrote: It seems that your posting took me off much too far. Even if meant as a joke it seemed worth a thought to me. Sorry for the bandwith, if all the "blah", as you name it, bothered you.

quoted 14 lines Um, this was a joke post...

>Um, this was a joke post... > >--- "Peter F. Spiess" <info@peter-spiess.de> wrote: >> >> I really ask myself what the fundamental level of >> any art is. If you take visual arts into >[blah blah blah...] >> >> At 16:32 18.05.2001 -0700, Adam wrote: >> >No, really - Isn't all art, when you boil it down >> to >> >its most fundamental level, just IDM in disguise? >> >>

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Did you know you can set up filters in your email client to automatically filter out messages from undesirable senders? That's right! That means you can send any twink from the IDM-L you don't happen to like directly into the shitcan! Just a thought. m@2zo www.thechisa.com "Life is Suffering. Art imitates Life. Imitation is the highest form of Flattery. Flattery will get you Nowhere. Therefore: Art is Suffering on the road the Nowhere." -- Matt Tuozzo --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

d_jak wrote:

quoted 8 lines I agree that there is a serious mind/body split in Western civ.

> I agree that there is a serious mind/body split in Western civ. > > However, the idea that classical music doesn't address the body is just dead > wrong. > > What about the Waltz? - a form used by many of the great "classical" > composers, it was created specifically with dancing in mind (though of an > admittedly more staid variety than what we do today).

That was then and this is now...that music hasn't been played for dancing for centuries. -- John von Seggern DJ/producer Digital Cutup Lounge Hong Kong http://www.digitalcutuplounge.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

i wrote:

quoted 3 lines I don't know. I'm no snob. but having spent a lot of time with

> > I don't know. I'm no snob. but having spent a lot of time with >> electronica in the last couple years, i'd have to say that most of it >> isn't built to last particularly, it's casual, disposable culture.

johnvon@digitalcutuplounge.com wrote:

quoted 2 lines I agree -- but what does that have to do with high/low art?

> >I agree -- but what does that have to do with high/low art?

ok, so there's disposable high culture, too. but...while there's part of high culture that's purely defined by market niche and/or cultural cache, there's a more credible definition of 'high' that has to do with making a refined, sophisticated art that has enough invested in it that it will reward sustained attention.

quoted 3 lines I think the

>I think the >'disposable' nature of much electronic music may have more to do with the >accelerated speed at which our culture is changing

well...something like Schoenberg's 2nd String Quartet emerged during a moment of speedy and volitile cultural change. Might not be something i listen to that often, but it is clear that there it has considerable depth as well as astonishing invention. Every time I listen to it, I'm grappling with it and coming away with new experiences. most electronica is written in a very simple form and rarely develops more than a simple idea or two over the course of 8 minutes. and for all the emphasis on creating news sounds, it's rare to hear a truly surprising new sound -- more likely someone carves out a bit of stylistic turf for themselves. Like i say, there's nothing wrong with this, it's very dionysian, fairly unpretentious (and hell it's what I'm listening to most of the time.) but the music tends to be more disposable because there's less invested in it.

quoted 2 lines I dislike most of the music that comes out of that world because it's 100%

>I dislike most of the music that comes out of that world because it's 100% >head music

i don't know...are you against literature, too? how boring, sitting around looking at text...

quoted 2 lines It

>It >seems to be taboo to use a regular beat in academia, however...

yeah, academia is fucked up and that seems to have been the death of classical music. At 7:38 PM -0400 5/18/01, d_jak wrote:

quoted 2 lines What about the Waltz? - a form used by many of the great "classical"

>What about the Waltz? - a form used by many of the great "classical" >composers, it was created specifically with dancing in mind

Bach's undancable gavottes and jigs do seem to presage idm... k --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Kurt Hoffman wrote:

quoted 3 lines there's a more credible definition of 'high' that has to do

> there's a more credible definition of 'high' that has to do > with making a refined, sophisticated art that has enough invested in > it that it will reward sustained attention.

A lot of the contemporary electronic music I listen to certainly meets that definition...

quoted 6 lines I think the

> >I think the > >'disposable' nature of much electronic music may have more to do with the > >accelerated speed at which our culture is changing > > most electronica is written in a very simple form and rarely develops > more than a simple idea or two over the course of 8 minutes

Thinking like this is misjudging dance music by the standards of other music. Contemporary electronica is not really 'about' notes, chords, and melodies IMO -- especially IDM-style stuff like Autechre. It's more about textures and sounds, and in these aspects it has a much richer vocabulary than any music composed for conventional instruments. A lot of it is also about subtle effects and transitions between sounds. Anyway, I think the most important point is that music doesn't have to be complex to be art, to be good, to be high art, or whatever. Some of the greatest art is made up of just a few elements -- how about Illbient by We if you know that track -- it only has four sounds but is a classic track IMO.

quoted 3 lines Like i say, there's nothing wrong with

> Like i say, there's nothing wrong with > this, it's very dionysian, fairly unpretentious (and hell it's what > I'm listening to most of the time.)

You seem like a sophisticated listener, with taste ranging from Schoenberg to IDM. Why do *you* prefer to listen to electronic music?

quoted 2 lines but the music tends to be more

> but the music tends to be more > disposable because there's less invested in it.

I'd have to disagree with that...as a producer the music I'm making is very important to me, not just something casually tossed off in a free moment... John -- John von Seggern DJ/producer Digital Cutup Lounge Hong Kong http://www.digitalcutuplounge.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 5 lines i wrote:

>i wrote: > >> there's a more credible definition of 'high' that has to do >> with making a refined, sophisticated art that has enough invested in >> it that it will reward sustained attention.

johnvon@digitalcutuplounge.com wrote:

quoted 2 lines A lot of the contemporary electronic music I listen to certainly meets that

>A lot of the contemporary electronic music I listen to certainly meets that >definition...

I don't know if we really disagree. I think there is a certain amount of electronic music that does meet this definition. my point is that most electronica is not even trying to meet this definition. if it does, then, yeah, the difference between it and some "bona fide" woik of aht is nil.

quoted 9 lines most electronica is written in a very simple form and rarely develops

> > > most electronica is written in a very simple form and rarely develops >> more than a simple idea or two over the course of 8 minutes > >Thinking like this is misjudging dance music by the standards of other music. >Contemporary electronica is not really 'about' notes, chords, and melodies IMO >-- especially IDM-style stuff like Autechre. It's more about textures and >sounds, and in these aspects it has a much richer vocabulary than any music >composed for conventional instruments.

i'm all for appreciating every sort of music on its own terms. Beethoven, Derrick May and Howlin Wolf all made great art. I still think the idea of "high art" is useful for understanding why Beethoven did what he did, and of doubtful utility in appreciating the others. regarding conventional instruments, yeah you can get more variety of timbres with a powerbook, but it's just one approach to make music. it's all about what goes on in your head. I mean, look at us communicating with these ancient English words with 15th century spelling -- ie one can use conventional means to get all sorts of places (and cutting edge means to achieve little for that matter).

quoted 2 lines You seem like a sophisticated listener, with taste ranging from Schoenberg to

>You seem like a sophisticated listener, with taste ranging from Schoenberg to >IDM. Why do *you* prefer to listen to electronic music?

I don't think electronic/digital instruments are better, but they've managed to excite people with their novel possibilities and spur some interesting work. Anyway, I think that new Perlon comp is the next Gotterdammerung. k --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Kurt Hoffman wrote:

quoted 5 lines i'm all for appreciating every sort of music on its own terms.

> i'm all for appreciating every sort of music on its own terms. > Beethoven, Derrick May and Howlin Wolf all made great art. I still > think the idea of "high art" is useful for understanding why > Beethoven did what he did, and of doubtful utility in appreciating > the others.

What about Autechre? Miles Davis? Frank Zappa? Where do you draw the line? I guess I have a grudge about this issue because I've spent some time in academia myself...I remember taking 20th century analysis as an undergraduate and limiting our study to 12-tone rows, set theory, etc. I asked the lecturer one day why Hendrix and Coltrane weren't on the syllabus but didn't receive a very convincing answer in response... Interestingly, I noticed from another post on this list that Autechre had Curtis Roads (an academic composer from UC-Santa Barbara) open for them at their LA show...what's really interesting to me is the crossover and merging of the academic/popular worlds in contemporary electronic music. There's a brilliant article by Kim Cascone about this in Computer Music Journal (vol 24 #4, Winter 2000), it's called 'The Aesthetics of Failure: Post-Digital Tendencies in Contemporary Computer Music'.

quoted 2 lines regarding conventional instruments, yeah you can get more variety of

> regarding conventional instruments, yeah you can get more variety of > timbres with a powerbook, but it's just one approach to make music.

Sure, but it's an approach that opens up vast new worlds of sound to explore...I was a jazz/pop/studio bassist for ten years before I got into electronic music, but now I've swapped my bass for a laptop on stage because the laptop can do so much more.

quoted 6 lines You seem like a sophisticated listener, with taste ranging from Schoenberg to

> >You seem like a sophisticated listener, with taste ranging from Schoenberg to > >IDM. Why do *you* prefer to listen to electronic music? > > I don't think electronic/digital instruments are better, but they've > managed to excite people with their novel possibilities and spur some > interesting work.

Right, it's not a matter of better/worse...however, I do think that one of the important elements of art is it's contemporary relevance. Good art suggests ways of dealing with new experiences and how to live in new contexts, which is why we always need new art/music -- the world and our experiences are always changing, perhaps never more quickly than right now. Autechre (just using them as an example) are relevant to our contemporary situation in a way that Beethoven isn't...at least that's my opinion. John -- John von Seggern DJ/producer Digital Cutup Lounge Hong Kong http://www.digitalcutuplounge.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On 21/05/01 18:49, Digital Cutup Lounge said in living color:

quoted 5 lines Right, it's not a matter of better/worse...however, I do think that one of the

> Right, it's not a matter of better/worse...however, I do think that one of the > important elements of art is it's contemporary relevance. Good art suggests > ways of dealing with new experiences and how to live in new contexts, which is > why we always need new art/music -- the world and our experiences are always > changing, perhaps never more quickly than right now.

I don't think I can really agree with that (at least, in the way it's formulated/in the way I comprehend it). It seems you're implying that every work of art carries an "expiration date", after which it no longer has any relevance... (Also see below).

quoted 2 lines Autechre (just using them as an example) are relevant to our contemporary

> Autechre (just using them as an example) are relevant to our contemporary > situation in a way that Beethoven isn't...at least that's my opinion.

I'd be truly interested in hearing you develop that opinion, if possible. (No sarcasm whatsoever is intended.) g. -- Guillaume Grenier - gollum@videotron.ca in space there is no north in space there is no south in space there is no east in space there is no west --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Enjoying this thread very much... Guillaume Grenier wrote:

quoted 12 lines On 21/05/01 18:49, Digital Cutup Lounge said in living color:

> On 21/05/01 18:49, Digital Cutup Lounge said in living color: > > > Right, it's not a matter of better/worse...however, I do think that one of the > > important elements of art is it's contemporary relevance. Good art suggests > > ways of dealing with new experiences and how to live in new contexts, which is > > why we always need new art/music -- the world and our experiences are always > > changing, perhaps never more quickly than right now. > > I don't think I can really agree with that (at least, in the way it's > formulated/in the way I comprehend it). It seems you're implying that every > work of art carries an "expiration date", after which it no longer has any > relevance... (Also see below).

Not so black and white, but IMO works of art and even whole genres do lose some of their relevance over time, particularly when society (as well as the fabric of our daily lives) is changing as fast as it has been in recent years. I am currently doing a thesis on electronic music and the Internet (there's more than one way to get paid for surfing the Web), and have recently been re-reading classic media theorist Marshall McLuhan on this topic, here's a couple of choice quotes: "In the history of human culture there is no example of a conscious adjustment of the various factors of personal and social life to new extensions [i.e., media] except in the…efforts of artists. The artist picks up the message of cultural and technological challenge decades before its transforming impact occurs. " "…in the electric age there is no longer any sense in talking about the artist’s being ahead of his time. Our technology, also, is ahead of its time, if we reckon by our ability to recognize it for what it is… Just as higher education is no longer a frill or luxury but a stark need of production and operational design in the electric age, so the artist is indispensable in the shaping and analysis and understanding of the life of forms, and structures created by electric technology." - both taken from _Understanding Media_ These are issues I have grappled with in my own career as a musician. My musical goal was always to be a great jazz bass player, I love to improvise and create music in the moment. However, it takes years of practice to become a really good improviser, and just by the time I started to feel like I was making real progress, I looked around and found that the relevance was draining right out of what I was doing. Time for a change. Now I'm co-leading a laptop improv band here in HK and I'm happy again... John -- John von Seggern DJ/producer Digital Cutup Lounge Hong Kong http://www.digitalcutuplounge.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Big Thank Yous to everyone who came out to Level X on Saturday for the Bip Hop night, and to all the performers: Sulako, Warm Desk, Marumari, and Crix Madine [from Obliq Records]. Your support is much appreciated. Everyone involved worked on this event for free. We did it for the love of the party- so thank you Everyone for coming out and making it great! You know where to get the Bip Hop comps [ www.bip-hop.com] The next Record Camp Saturday is on the drawing board.. Thanks again people and see you soon, Record Camp --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On 22 May 2001 03:42:42 -0000, you wrote:

quoted 6 lines "…in the electric age there is no longer any sense in talking about the artist’s

>"…in the electric age there is no longer any sense in talking about the artist’s >being ahead of his time. Our technology, also, is ahead of its time, if we reckon >by our ability to recognize it for what it is… Just as higher education is no >longer a frill or luxury but a stark need of production and operational design in >the electric age, so the artist is indispensable in the shaping and analysis and >understanding of the life of forms, and structures created by electric technology."

Here's a quote from Paul Miller (DJ Spooky) that seemed relevant (but my mind is maxed out at the moment so who knows? ;) Peace Zoz "I think that when people several centuries in the future look back at the 20th century, they'll probably see the signs of a world civilisation being consumed by the communication technologies it used. To me, music is a mirror that we hold up to see how cultural structures are formed. Race, social heirachy, class, national origin: the 20th century saw a questioning of these issues on a global level, and in a sense, electronic music was the soundtrack to that intense investigation into the human situation. Almost all traditional notions of space, time, and physicality have been reconfigured in ways that we are just beginning to understand. I think that electronic music has helped us understand the process we've lived through. Think about everything from the tones you hear coming through the telephone to the frequencies underlying cellular communications to the algorithms used to route in the information holding it all together - most of this stuff has been explored by the avant-guarde. Industry & science develop the materials, but artists & composers are called upon to dream of different ways of using them." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Orblike - Orbitalesque - Art of Noise-ish The Love Frequency: http://www.mp3.com/tlf ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Yeah, I gotta concur, unless you're making music using biological instruments you've grown in a lab, technology in music is pretty commonplace. Even Metallica mixes down on a Macintosh. m@2zo www.thechisa.com "Life is Suffering. Art imitates Life. Imitation is the highest form of Flattery. Flattery will get you Nowhere. Therefore: Art is Suffering on the road the Nowhere." -- Matt Tuozzo On Tue, 22 May 2001, Zozzy wrote:

quoted 44 lines On 22 May 2001 03:42:42 -0000, you wrote:

> On 22 May 2001 03:42:42 -0000, you wrote: > > >"?in the electric age there is no longer any sense in talking about the artist?s > >being ahead of his time. Our technology, also, is ahead of its time, if we reckon > >by our ability to recognize it for what it is? Just as higher education is no > >longer a frill or luxury but a stark need of production and operational design in > >the electric age, so the artist is indispensable in the shaping and analysis and > >understanding of the life of forms, and structures created by electric technology." > > > Here's a quote from Paul Miller (DJ Spooky) that seemed relevant (but my mind is > maxed out at the moment so who knows? ;) > Peace > Zoz > > > "I think that when people several centuries in the future look back at the 20th > century, they'll probably see the signs of a world civilisation being consumed > by the communication technologies it used. > To me, music is a mirror that we hold up to see how cultural structures are > formed. Race, social heirachy, class, national origin: the 20th century saw a > questioning of these issues on a global level, and in a sense, electronic music > was the soundtrack to that intense investigation into the human situation. > > Almost all traditional notions of space, time, and physicality have been > reconfigured in ways that we are just beginning to understand. I think that > electronic music has helped us understand the process we've lived through. > Think about everything from the tones you hear coming through the telephone to > the frequencies underlying cellular communications to the algorithms used to > route in the information holding it all together - most of this stuff has been > explored by the avant-guarde. > Industry & science develop the materials, but artists & composers are called > upon to dream of different ways of using them." > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Orblike - Orbitalesque - Art of Noise-ish > The Love Frequency: http://www.mp3.com/tlf > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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quoted 9 lines My musical

>My musical >goal was always to be a great jazz bass player, I love to improvise and create >music in the moment. However, it takes years of practice to become a >really good >improviser, and just by the time I started to feel like I was making >real progress, >I looked around and found that the relevance was draining right out >of what I was >doing.

can understand that. same time i really respect someone like Tom Jenkinson for struggling to find aways to incorporate his supposedly anachronistic musical talents/interests into new music. k --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org