IDM Mailing Archive

</lurk>

quoted 3 lines I happen to like

>I happen to like >Autechre, but was a bit less impressed with their last few records >vs. their first four, I guess... what are they up to now, seven?

5 albums, 7 ep's, one peel session. that's wrong though. and i'm quite the contrary, actually.. i can't stand listening to amber all the way through (i like silverslide and tear tear and a couple other ones). i thoroughly enjoyed everything after and including envane

quoted 4 lines They are experimenting now even more I guess, it is less

>They are experimenting now even more I guess, it is less >melody-driven and maybe in a way more like (experimental) jazz, about >that focus on the complexity of interwoven rhythms rather than >memorable themes.

i don't know if they're necessarily experimenting more. i think they're using more experimental sounds and equipment (term used loosely), and their work is "differently rhythmic" than their earlier stuff for sure. although i have to disagree with the memorable themes. i constantly think of the 3 different melodies used in "zeiss contarex" (a truly wonderful song), and they stick even more so because their very oddly constructed melodies, as in their not "note note note", it's more like their sliding around or softly screaming (i really have no clue how to describe them, but it's definitely different than, say, their incunabula melodies).

quoted 4 lines I am definately no Jazz expert, but from what I've

>I am definately no Jazz expert, but from what I've >heard of a lot this music I find it less accessible. Listening to it >is interesting, more of an intellectual experience, but I still >prefer music as a visceral, emotional experience.

yeah, me too. ep7 is some of the most emotional music i've listened to in the past few days (which isn't too much, since i've been moving). Jazz is somewhat inaccessible, because it's sometimes not as structured as programmed music. but some jazz is very accessible and worthwhile, it just sort of depends. and i don't know, perhaps the fact that jazz is best listened to in a laid back smoky club means it's more intellectual than, say, a rave (heh heh). going back to the jazz discussion, i don't think that, say, amon tobin is jazz, or that people who sample jazz things are trying to recreate jazz. i'm of the opinion that this stuff definitely sounds "jazzy", or "funky", but i think there's a reason that jazz is/was a much larger thing live in a bar/club than it ever is/was on vinyl/cd/cylinder. and since i'm digested and don't feel like sending off 3 more out-dated messages, i don't use the term "idm". when people ask me what i listen to, i usually respond with "i don't know.. weird stuff.. sort of electronicy", although i don't think that would go over very well as a term.. -derek no signature has been provided for your pleasure --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I don't know if Autechre make jazz or not. I can locate some original jazz constructions and gestures in ep7 but I like to think they're not falling into the "jazzy" pit. "Jazzy" elements or atmosphere indicate dead jazz. Most of what is out there at the moment under the name "jazz" : some truly pathetic product of too old students of dead teachers. And Spacetime Continuum, Amon Tobin or Jay Swinscoe are even less interesting : they're "jazzy", expressing the inferiority complex developed by lowbrows towards highbrow music. On the contrary, Music is Rotted One Note : hi-tech jazz at its best, highly conscious of its tech shifts. Otherwise, please ditch the corpse. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Sorry, can't quite make out the tone of this post, but I'll take the bait ; ) On Sun, 14 May 2000 18:49:44 +0200 "jre" <jre@libertysurf.fr> writes:

quoted 4 lines And Spacetime Continuum, Amon Tobin or Jay Swinscoe are

>And Spacetime Continuum, Amon Tobin or Jay Swinscoe are >even less interesting : they're "jazzy", expressing the inferiority >complex developed by lowbrows towards >highbrow music.

While I make no argument with the dislike of the term "jazzy" and its subtle connotations of quality and craftmanship (and not-so-subtle attempt to link the music it describes with a more "highbrow" art form), perhaps these are not the proper bands to mention as examples. Both Spacetime Continuum and J. Swinscoe's Cinematic Orchestra are true to the core of jazz - improvisational composition. Amon Tobin? Don't know - I thought he just djed. While I think their thus-far recorded output (at least J. Sharpe's latest takes) suffers from a certain reverence and never "busts out" of its shell, I am hopeful, if not expectant, that time on the road will only hone their ability. Are they jazz lite? No, just tendering the first feelers of what might be a fruitful experience.

quoted 2 lines On the contrary, Music is Rotted One Note : hi-tech jazz at

>On the contrary, Music is Rotted One Note : hi-tech jazz at >its best, highly conscious of its tech shifts.

Yes, it is different and refreshing. In small doses. J np: Future Loop Foundation _Conditions for Living_ Join The Party @www.cpusa.org ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

--- jre <jre@libertysurf.fr> wrote:

quoted 6 lines I don't know if Autechre make jazz or not. I can locate some original

> I don't know if Autechre make jazz or not. I can locate some original > jazz > constructions and gestures in ep7 but I like to think they're not > falling > into the "jazzy" pit. "Jazzy" elements or atmosphere indicate dead > jazz.

What the hell is a Jazzy element? Are you talking about a choice of chord progression that changes key regularly or are you talking about the instrumental palette?...or something else? The spread of artists that fall under the Jazz label is so wide that your complaint above is meaningless.

quoted 8 lines Most of what is out there at the moment under the name "jazz" : some

> Most of what is out there at the moment under the name "jazz" : some > truly > pathetic product of too old students of dead teachers. And Spacetime > Continuum, Amon Tobin or Jay Swinscoe are even less interesting : > they're > "jazzy", expressing the inferiority complex developed by lowbrows > towards > highbrow music.

So it's ok for producers to be influenced by Kraftwerk but not by Miles Davis? Or is there some Jazz that it's ok to be influenced by? Perhaps you should give us a list.

quoted 6 lines On the contrary, Music is Rotted One Note : hi-tech

> On the contrary, Music is Rotted One Note : hi-tech > jazz at > its best, highly conscious of its tech shifts. Otherwise, please > ditch the > corpse. >

The last 2 times I've seen an artist clear the room of 75% of the audience because of the ferocity of their music was Squarepusher at his regular appearances at Anokha (satisfying to see all the Hoxton mediaocracy rushing out of the room) and Tony Williams (the Miles Davis drummer) and his band at the Jazz Cafe. The post-bop noise was so tough that the Jazz supper audience were choking on their gnocchi. Jazz can still be loud and angry when it wants to be and when it is it makes Ed Rush and Optical sound like a pair of pussy cats. Matt. PS. Tony Williams - rest in peace. Best drummer ever. ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

<<Jazz can still be loud and angry when it wants to be and when it is it makes Ed Rush and Optical sound like a pair of pussy cats.>> Hell, there's no sin in listening to old jazz that's loud and angry. Go put in "Bitch's Brew" by Davis and just listen to it descend into mad grooves and angry strange funk. Or put in "Sayeeda's (sp?) Song Flute" by Coltrane on repeat for an hour or so and slowly go mad. On a related topic, has anyone else here gotten into Jazz after getting into IDM-ish techno? Cuz I know I never would've picked up a Miles Davis album otherwise. Unless I were stoned. But I think my track record of buying things cuz they sound good WHEN I'M SOBER is pretty good. Anyway. It's also be interesting to hear someone's opinion of the really experimental stuff by Squarepusher and Spacetime Continuum (ok, so Jonah Sharp isn't THAT experimental) who comes from an entirely jazz-oriented listening background. I don't suppose anyone on here fits that bill? -Thad --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

<<Jazz can still be loud and angry when it wants to be and when it is it makes Ed Rush and Optical sound like a pair of pussy cats.>> Hell, there's no sin in listening to old jazz that's loud and angry. Go put in "Bitch's Brew" by Davis and just listen to it descend into mad grooves and angry strange funk. Or put in "Sayeeda's (sp?) Song Flute" by Coltrane on repeat for an hour or so and slowly go mad. On a related topic, has anyone else here gotten into Jazz after getting into IDM-ish techno? Cuz I know I never would've picked up a Miles Davis album otherwise. Unless I were stoned. But I think my track record of buying things cuz they sound good WHEN I'M SOBER is pretty good. Anyway. It's also be interesting to hear someone's opinion of the really experimental stuff by Squarepusher and Spacetime Continuum (ok, so Jonah Sharp isn't THAT experimental) who comes from an entirely jazz-oriented listening background. I don't suppose anyone on here fits that bill? -Thad --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Mon, 15 May 2000 Passenjer0@aol.com wrote:

quoted 3 lines Hell, there's no sin in listening to old jazz that's loud and angry.

> Hell, there's no sin in listening to old jazz that's loud and angry. > Go put in "Bitch's Brew" by Davis and just listen to it descend into mad > grooves and angry strange funk.

As far as abrasiveness, "Bitches Brew" doesn't come close to what came after that album. If you wanna hear Miles being REALLY abrasive check out "Dark Magus" and all the stuff with Pete Cosey in general. From what I remember "At Fillmore: Live at the Fillmore East" has some incredibly abrasive moments. And then there's "Rated X" off "Get Up With It", etc.. "Live Evil" is a personal favorite.

quoted 2 lines Or put in "Sayeeda's (sp?) Song Flute" by Coltrane on repeat for an

> Or put in "Sayeeda's (sp?) Song Flute" by Coltrane on repeat for an > hour or so and slowly go mad.

Again, there's much, much more abrasive Coltrane than that. Personally I wouldn't call "Syeeda's Song Flute" abrasive at all. It's a really nice tune. Check out anything from "Sun Ship" (another personal favorite) on for abrasive Coltrane.

quoted 4 lines It's also be interesting to hear someone's opinion of the really

> It's also be interesting to hear someone's opinion of the really > experimental stuff by Squarepusher <snip> who comes from an entirely > jazz-oriented listening background. I don't suppose anyone on here > fits that bill?

Well, I was really deep into (listening to and playing) jazz before I ever got into any electronic stuff so here's what I think: Jenkinson can really play. He's a very good fusion bass player. I wouldn't say he has a unique voice as an improviser, he basically emulates people like Jaco Pastorious and Stanley Clarke, but he could definitely hold his own in a "real" fusion band. I also think that although his compositions on MIRON definitely show a lot of skill and knowledge and all that, they're also very emulative (mostly of early Weather Report, but also of early fusion-era Miles). But he's still really young and most jazz musicians are still in the emulative phase at his age, so he's probably on his way to finding his own voice. His efforts are impressive nonetheless. I think MIRON is OK, but for me it lacks improvisational meat. I just think if he's gonna do that kind of music he should include more improv/solos. I tend to find myself thinking after any of those fusiony tunes on MIRON are over "OK, what just happened there ?". There were all these crescendos, but nothing really happened. They didn't really lead to anything. Maybe his intentions were to create sound washes which the first Weather Report album is very much like. I actually think that some tracks from "Feed Me...","Hard Normal Daddy" and the Spymanina stuff show off his fusion playing and arranging skills a lot better than MIRON. What I find interesting is that I haven't heard anyone talk about those concrete pieces which make up almost half of MIRON. I'd be curious to know what he's been listening to. I did see one interview with him where he mentioned Stockhausen's "Gesang Der Junglinge". Anyway, did anyone else notice in the Jenks segment of "Modulations" that he had Basic Channel records laying on the floor ? I thought that was pretty interesting. Andrei --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org