Sorted! Nice one! etc., etc.
Thanks, Alan.
I knew there'd be some Media Studies bods somewhere on the list! ;oD (I hope that's not a sleight, Alan!)
My little bit of paraphrasing was just that - paraphrasing. I knew it couldn't be as simple as that if someone like Foucault, Attali, Derrida or Deleuze was involved! :-)
I think it does relate to the "noise" argument, though - on the basis that noise, like beauty, is in the ear of the beholder.
However, I also believe there is often the same kind of "look what I can do with (sound using) my latest DSP plugins!" masturbation as virtuoso "conventional" musicians perform with their solos, licks, etc. That's where it becomes snobbery: "I'm technically more adept than you, therefore I'm higher up our particular hierarchy than you are!" It is this kind of "classism" (in any field) that makes me value simplicity, as it is no less (or more) expressive than complexity.
Just my tuppence-worth!
:-)
Clive
============================================================
From: "Alan R. Lockett" <Alan.R.Lockett@bristol.ac.uk>
Date: 2005/01/26 Wed AM 09:53:26 GMT
To: clive-harris <clive-harris@ntlworld.com>
CC: idm hyperreal <idm@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: [idm] ...another mechanical piece of noise
Hmmm... sounds a bit like someone spoofing Foucault, but might've been Attali,
as someone else pointed out. But Attali's position can't be reduced to a
proposition of the type - "all music is just a way of expressing power over
sound". It's more complicated than this. See, for example:-
"... for Attali, music is tamed noise, a structural code that defines and maps
positions of power and difference that are located in the aural landscape of
sound. Noise, or sound that falls outside a dominant musical code, transgresses
the dominant ordering of difference. For those in positions of musicianship and
listenership that are located within the dominant code of music, noise is
'unlistenable' static and interference, a cacophonous anarchy of sound. Thus
noise, as an element of the aural soundscape of society, can challenge
positions of power and difference that are assumed to be 'natural'."
[Herman, Andrew et al. 1998:19]
and relatedly:-
"While music produces, and is produced through, familiar order, noise works
against the order, creating a space for the imagination of multiple orders and
disorders." [Herman, Andrew et al. 1998:21]
So there you go...
alan
P.S. You can find more of this verbiage (if you can take it ;-)) at:
http://www.ukzn.ac.za/music/Readings.html
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 17:54:52 -0000 clive-harris <clive-harris@ntlworld.com>
wrote:
quoted 98 lines Oooh!
> Oooh!
>
> Perhaps someone on the list knows the answer to this - it's related to this
> debate, I feel. What was the name of the philosopher/egghead/clever bloke
> who said (to paraphrase) that "all music is just a way of expressing power
> over sound". i.e., musical virtuosity is a parallel to having power,
> whether it be political power (over people) or intellectual superiority.
>
> Hmmm... somehow this takes us into David Koresh "frustrated muso" territory!
>
> :-/
>
> Clive
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "graham miller" <grahammiller@sympatico.ca>
> Cc: <idm@hyperreal.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 5:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [idm] ...another mechanical piece of noise
>
>
> >
> >
> > Luis-Manuel Garcia wrote:
> >
> > > Truth be told, if I wanted something that "develops dramatically in an
> > > interesting way" I would listen to Wagner or Beethoven. I'm pretty
> > > fond of repetition as a compositional strategy, and I think that the
> > > refusal of narrative structure is one of the strongest aspects of
> > > electronic dance music in general.
> >
> > that said, there's narrative structure to something even as overtly
> > repetitive as hawtin's concept 1, and especially of something like his
> > closer to the edit... we are just talking n terms of scale... i mean some
> > pieces unfold over days in both academic experiemtnal music and in cermons
> > of several ancient cultures... certainly with electronic music,
> especially
> > the DJ aesthetic, a metapiece can unfold over the course of an entire
> > night... i find that many instances, the talent of the DJ is linked more
> to
> > this idea of narrative than technical skills per se.
> >
> > as far as musical repetition influencing narrative film, look at run lola
> > run...
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Also, I have trouble imagining the separation between music and
> > > technique that you make below. Technique/Expressivity or
> > > Complexity/Simplicity might work better for your purposes, although I'm
> > > still not entirely sold...
> >
> > explain more. i look at technique as purely athletic. the physical aspect
> > of executing a musical idea without 'error' on an instrument. obviously
> the
> > concept of 'error' is a loaded one. but then again the word technique
> could
> >
> > also be used as a synonym for the the word 'method,' in which in this case
> > it applies equally to a more cerebral sets of processes executed on any
> > instrument... i know i rely on a series of techniques to achieve certain
> > sounds... it's not the same knowledge base, it doesn't trigger the same
> > brain areas, as repetitive motion does though, what i would call athletic
> > training on an instrument... only once repetitive motion (i.e. practice)
> is
> >
> > internalized as second nature (it moves from the conscious to the
> > unconscious, much like my fingers typing this now) is it freed of the more
> > mundane limits of flesh and blood and can it move to toward the more
> > creative parts of the brain... automation, computer automation, merely
> moves
> >
> > you along the process faster. it accelerates human creativity as well as
> > opening up music to the physically inept:) i mean music notation in
> > classical music is exactly this too... the composer doesn;'t have to
> become
> > a master in every instrument in the orchestra, they 'automate' the players
> > through a strict symbolic language called 'notation.' this is why
> adherence
> >
> > and conformity are such massive criteria in the classical scene and
> > interpretation and improvisation are keep to a minimum... the whole thing
> is
> >
> > rationalized like a well-oil machine, every cog in its place... i
> >
> > anyway, i'm a fucking tangent here and i need a coffee...
> >
> > digressing graham (sounds like a movie of the week)
> >
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
>
----------------------
Alan Lockett, (Senior Language Co-ordinator, EFL),
Language Centre, University of Bristol,
30-32 Tyndall's Park Road, Bristol BS8 1PY, UK
Alan.R.Lockett@bristol.ac.uk
tel: +44 117 3310914 fax: +44 117 9741377
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org
For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
============================================================
-----------------------------------------
Email provided by
http://www.ntlhome.com/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org
For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org