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Re: (idm) Re: lets talk equip.

18 messages · 13 participants · spans 4 days · search this subject
2000-03-08 18:32(idm) Re: lets talk equip.
└─ 2000-03-08 22:33Zachary I Mastoon Re: (idm) Re: lets talk equip.
2000-03-08 22:12(idm) Re: lets talk equip.
└─ 2000-03-09 10:32Galen Beals RE: (idm) Re: lets talk equip.
2000-03-08 23:06Christophe McKeon Re: (idm) Re: lets talk equip.
├─ 2000-03-08 23:55Johan Kotlinski Re: (idm) Re: lets talk equip.
└─ 2000-03-09 10:24Galen Beals RE: (idm) Re: lets talk equip.
└─ 2000-03-09 21:55Johan Kotlinski RE: (idm) Re: lets talk equip.
2000-03-09 02:17Lee Azzarello Re: (idm) Re: lets talk equip.
└─ 2000-03-09 02:59Drusca Re: (idm) Re: lets talk equip.
2000-03-09 03:25Ghetto TR-707 Re: (idm) Re: lets talk equip.
2000-03-09 03:41Ghetto TR-707 Re: (idm) Re: lets talk equip.
2000-03-09 19:06Twine sound RE: (idm) Re: lets talk equip.
2000-03-09 20:19a.Puls RE: (idm) Re: lets talk equip.
2000-03-09 22:55Re: (idm) Re: lets talk equip.
└─ 2000-03-09 17:38Galen Beals RE: (idm) Re: lets talk equip.
2000-03-10 03:42Slick 6669 RE: (idm) Re: lets talk equip.
2000-03-13 00:15Stephen D. Olson Re: (idm) Re: lets talk equip.
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2000-03-08 18:32ajwells@ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 11:45:41 -0600 > To: International Damage Machines <idm@hyperreal
From:
To:
Date:
Wed, 08 Mar 2000 13:32:51 -0500
Subject:
(idm) Re: lets talk equip.
permalink · <38C69CD3.5F48@ix.netcom.com>
quoted 12 lines Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 11:45:41 -0600> Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 11:45:41 -0600 > To: International Damage Machines <idm@hyperreal.org> > From: Ernesto Ikerd <IkerdEA@lmtas.lmco.com> > Subject: Re: (idm) lets talk equip. > Message-id: <200003081745.LAA05850@cliffy.lmtas.lmco.com> > > >I think the dream setup for me > >would be entirely software based with nothing but knobs, faders and midi > >instruments atached to the computer. Currently I'm programing some stuff > >in Csound (I'd upgrade to jMax but my machine is too slow). With a little > >knoweldge in Csound and the possibility of jMax, I wonder why anyone buys > >retail outboard gear at all.
Well there are plenty of electronic artists who either hate the matrix that working in a computer environment throws you into or dont use them much because they play live and understand the problems that one can get into with excessive reliance on computers... I know that some people work with computers and love them... and buy into the myth that you can do "anything" with computers... but one of the reasons for all of the sameness in electronic music at the moment is because working in a computer sequencing environment does not present the opportunity for things to fuck up in an interesting way and it also removes the artist from the reality that sound emanates from THINGS vibrating, not numbers approximating waves... that physical quality of sound is often lost or changed in a computer environment... Of course computer audio environments do make it possible for a large segment of the listening public to create as opposed to consuming, but when you see the glut of "electronica" currently polluting the stores, you have to wonder whether that is a good thing... there has always been a finite amount of true substance in any artistic field, and that percentage doesnt change with advances in technology... Many artists at the forefront of modern music are rejecting the sequencing environment for more of a hands on approach because they feel constricted by the "limitless possibilities" of the computer... in art, unlike most other areas of life, more choices does not equal a better situation... art usually thrives on limitation, and I think we are going to see more and more artists moving beyond the computer in the next few years... the more you TOUCH a piece of art the more you empart yourself onto it... and you cant touch anything inside your Logic environment I mean just look at the continued and even increased popularity of analog equipment and hardware sequencers... an Expander or an MPC3000 hasnt lost any value despite all of the computer emulations... there will always be something about the "thingness" of musical instruments that computers cannot touch... Of course your experience may vary... A. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-03-08 22:33Zachary I Mastooni hear you, man. although i would eventually like to incorporate a computer into my (ahem)
From:
Zachary I Mastoon
To:
Date:
Wed, 8 Mar 2000 17:33:20 -0500 (EST)
Subject:
Re: (idm) Re: lets talk equip.
Reply to:
(idm) Re: lets talk equip.
permalink · <Pine.OSF.4.21.0003081726080.12277-100000@is7.nyu.edu>
i hear you, man. although i would eventually like to incorporate a computer into my (ahem) "studio," i work with a single piece of equipment: the Yamaha SU700. it's a relatively new sampling workstation that has 4 kinds of sweepable filters, lfo editing, time compression, 43 internal effects (all of which are changeable), resampling, etc. etc. it is very user-friendly and i have been very happy composing with it. i can go on and on about it, and i recommend if you are interested in a wonderful sampler/sequencer to check this one out. from my experience with akai's mpc, i'd take the Yamaha unit over it anytime; but hey, the mpc is great for hip-hop and techno, and millions of people aren't complaining! :) zachary zim200@is7.nyu.edu On Wed, 8 Mar 2000 ajwells@ix.netcom.com wrote:
quoted 57 lines Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 11:45:41 -0600> > Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 11:45:41 -0600 > > To: International Damage Machines <idm@hyperreal.org> > > From: Ernesto Ikerd <IkerdEA@lmtas.lmco.com> > > Subject: Re: (idm) lets talk equip. > > Message-id: <200003081745.LAA05850@cliffy.lmtas.lmco.com> > > > > >I think the dream setup for me > > >would be entirely software based with nothing but knobs, faders and midi > > >instruments atached to the computer. Currently I'm programing some stuff > > >in Csound (I'd upgrade to jMax but my machine is too slow). With a little > > >knoweldge in Csound and the possibility of jMax, I wonder why anyone buys > > >retail outboard gear at all. > > Well there are plenty of electronic artists who either hate the matrix > that working in a computer environment throws you into or dont use them > much because they play live and understand the problems that one can get > into with excessive reliance on computers... > > I know that some people work with computers and love them... and buy > into the myth that you can do "anything" with computers... but one of > the reasons for all of the sameness in electronic music at the moment is > because working in a computer sequencing environment does not present > the opportunity for things to fuck up in an interesting way and it also > removes the artist from the reality that sound emanates from THINGS > vibrating, not numbers approximating waves... that physical quality of > sound is often lost or changed in a computer environment... > > Of course computer audio environments do make it possible for a large > segment of the listening public to create as opposed to consuming, but > when you see the glut of "electronica" currently polluting the stores, > you have to wonder whether that is a good thing... there has always been > a finite amount of true substance in any artistic field, and that > percentage doesnt change with advances in technology... > > Many artists at the forefront of modern music are rejecting the > sequencing environment for more of a hands on approach because they feel > constricted by the "limitless possibilities" of the computer... in art, > unlike most other areas of life, more choices does not equal a better > situation... art usually thrives on limitation, and I think we are going > to see more and more artists moving beyond the computer in the next few > years... the more you TOUCH a piece of art the more you empart yourself > onto it... and you cant touch anything inside your Logic environment > > I mean just look at the continued and even increased popularity of > analog equipment and hardware sequencers... an Expander or an MPC3000 > hasnt lost any value despite all of the computer emulations... there > will always be something about the "thingness" of musical instruments > that computers cannot touch... > > Of course your experience may vary... > > A. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >
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2000-03-08 22:12ajwells@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 00:55:12 +0100 (MET) > To: idm@hyperreal.org > From: Johan Kotlins
From:
To:
Date:
Wed, 08 Mar 2000 17:12:33 -0500
Subject:
(idm) Re: lets talk equip.
permalink · <38C6D051.278@ix.netcom.com>
quoted 10 lines Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 00:55:12 +0100 (MET)> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 00:55:12 +0100 (MET) > To: idm@hyperreal.org > From: Johan Kotlinski <spleen@darkface.pp.se> > Subject: Re: (idm) Re: lets talk equip. > Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1000309003608.4702A-100000@warwick> > > On Wed, 8 Mar 2000, Christophe McKeon wrote: > > > Computers have mad thingness. They got more thingness' then anythin. > > My question: How is a computer not a musical instrument?
Anything can be a musical instrument... that wasnt the point... the point was that music is a highly specialized area of working... people spend their entire lives designing instruments to be played and that time spent evidences itself in the feel the player has and the feel the music has... computers are jacks of all trades and are great for a number of pursuits... and of course they can do music... my point was that they dont do the sort of music that seems to have substance very well... at the moment
quoted 8 lines It's all about interfaces. Computers mostly have general interfaces, like> > It's all about interfaces. Computers mostly have general interfaces, like > keyboards and mice, that are obviously not designed for music-making. You > can hook up MIDI keyboards and similar, but it's still a very indirect > form of sound generation. Especially when you compare it to the most > primitive (and general) form of music, banging on a piece of wood thereby > making rhythms. Some electronic music equipment (MPC3000, BOSS pedals :)) > actually has that kind of directness in creation, computers have not
Exactly... although perhaps if one were to bang directly on the computer and mic that up there might be a more direct connection... Hey there's an idea for Neubauten...
quoted 8 lines (unless you make music by banging them on the hood, or similar). You're> (unless you make music by banging them on the hood, or similar). You're > right that computers can be musical instruments, but I think all that > pointing and clicking is frustrating... And, I think other people share > that view too... I believe that Brian Eno said the following about > computers as a musical instrument, "too little Africa", and generally, I > agree on this. IMO, nothing's a bigger musical turn-off than pissing > around with mice too much... But I'll change my mind the moment Logic > comes with touchscreen or Nintendo lightgun support... :)
And Eno has made many good points about how the sequencing environment produces music which is welded to the grid, no matter how complex that grid may be... as he mentions, you can feel those bars and chunks of audio cycling by your ears when you listen to so many records lately, and its boring after awhile because your ear tunes out unless it perceives a threat (ie a possible change or human inflection or mistake)... and he makes another great point about how computers separate us from the muscular action necessary to produce acts which mean something and have a relation between a sound and the action which produced it A. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-03-09 10:32Galen Beals-----Original Message----- From: ajwells@ix.netcom.com [mailto:ajwells@ix.netcom.com] Sent
From:
Galen Beals
To:
Date:
Thu, 9 Mar 2000 10:32:30 -0000
Subject:
RE: (idm) Re: lets talk equip.
Reply to:
(idm) Re: lets talk equip.
permalink · <NDBBKEGPIGHEMBNFKHBDIEKJCAAA.galenb@vinton.com>
-----Original Message----- From: ajwells@ix.netcom.com [mailto:ajwells@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 10:13 PM To: idm@hyperreal.org Subject: (idm) Re: lets talk equip.
quoted 10 lines Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 00:55:12 +0100 (MET)> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 00:55:12 +0100 (MET) > To: idm@hyperreal.org > From: Johan Kotlinski <spleen@darkface.pp.se> > Subject: Re: (idm) Re: lets talk equip. > Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1000309003608.4702A-100000@warwick> > > On Wed, 8 Mar 2000, Christophe McKeon wrote: > > > Computers have mad thingness. They got more thingness' then anythin. > > My question: How is a computer not a musical instrument?
Anything can be a musical instrument... that wasnt the point... the point was that music is a highly specialized area of working... people spend their entire lives designing instruments to be played and that <snip!> And Eno has made many good points about how the sequencing environment produces music which is welded to the grid, no matter how complex that grid may be... as he mentions, you can feel those bars and chunks of audio cycling by your ears when you listen to so many records lately, and its boring after awhile because your ear tunes out unless it perceives a threat (ie a possible change or human inflection or mistake)... and he makes another great point about how computers separate us from the muscular action necessary to produce acts which mean something and have a relation between a sound and the action which produced it A. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org ------------------------------------- Ugh! It sounds to me like you need to stop listening to so much "grid" like music... Oh! what am I thinking?!! Electronic music IS Grid music!!! Give me a break! That's the beauty of it all. That's why I like Electronic music in the first place. It's the music of Robots and hyper accelerators. Geez! -=GB=- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-03-08 23:06Christophe McKeonComputers have mad thingness. They got more thingness' then anythin. My question: How is a
From:
Christophe McKeon
To:
Date:
Wed, 08 Mar 2000 18:06:42 -0500
Subject:
Re: (idm) Re: lets talk equip.
permalink · <38C6DD01.4E1D32A9@rcn.com>
Computers have mad thingness. They got more thingness' then anythin. My question: How is a computer not a musical instrument? *c ajwells@ix.netcom.com wrote:
quoted 56 lines Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 11:45:41 -0600> > Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 11:45:41 -0600 > > To: International Damage Machines <idm@hyperreal.org> > > From: Ernesto Ikerd <IkerdEA@lmtas.lmco.com> > > Subject: Re: (idm) lets talk equip. > > Message-id: <200003081745.LAA05850@cliffy.lmtas.lmco.com> > > > > >I think the dream setup for me > > >would be entirely software based with nothing but knobs, faders and midi > > >instruments atached to the computer. Currently I'm programing some stuff > > >in Csound (I'd upgrade to jMax but my machine is too slow). With a little > > >knoweldge in Csound and the possibility of jMax, I wonder why anyone buys > > >retail outboard gear at all. > > Well there are plenty of electronic artists who either hate the matrix > that working in a computer environment throws you into or dont use them > much because they play live and understand the problems that one can get > into with excessive reliance on computers... > > I know that some people work with computers and love them... and buy > into the myth that you can do "anything" with computers... but one of > the reasons for all of the sameness in electronic music at the moment is > because working in a computer sequencing environment does not present > the opportunity for things to fuck up in an interesting way and it also > removes the artist from the reality that sound emanates from THINGS > vibrating, not numbers approximating waves... that physical quality of > sound is often lost or changed in a computer environment... > > Of course computer audio environments do make it possible for a large > segment of the listening public to create as opposed to consuming, but > when you see the glut of "electronica" currently polluting the stores, > you have to wonder whether that is a good thing... there has always been > a finite amount of true substance in any artistic field, and that > percentage doesnt change with advances in technology... > > Many artists at the forefront of modern music are rejecting the > sequencing environment for more of a hands on approach because they feel > constricted by the "limitless possibilities" of the computer... in art, > unlike most other areas of life, more choices does not equal a better > situation... art usually thrives on limitation, and I think we are going > to see more and more artists moving beyond the computer in the next few > years... the more you TOUCH a piece of art the more you empart yourself > onto it... and you cant touch anything inside your Logic environment > > I mean just look at the continued and even increased popularity of > analog equipment and hardware sequencers... an Expander or an MPC3000 > hasnt lost any value despite all of the computer emulations... there > will always be something about the "thingness" of musical instruments > that computers cannot touch... > > Of course your experience may vary... > > A. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
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2000-03-08 23:55Johan KotlinskiOn Wed, 8 Mar 2000, Christophe McKeon wrote: > Computers have mad thingness. They got more
From:
Johan Kotlinski
To:
Date:
Thu, 9 Mar 2000 00:55:12 +0100 (MET)
Subject:
Re: (idm) Re: lets talk equip.
Reply to:
Re: (idm) Re: lets talk equip.
permalink · <Pine.LNX.3.96.1000309003608.4702A-100000@warwick>
On Wed, 8 Mar 2000, Christophe McKeon wrote:
quoted 2 lines Computers have mad thingness. They got more thingness' then anythin.> Computers have mad thingness. They got more thingness' then anythin. > My question: How is a computer not a musical instrument?
It's all about interfaces. Computers mostly have general interfaces, like keyboards and mice, that are obviously not designed for music-making. You can hook up MIDI keyboards and similar, but it's still a very indirect form of sound generation. Especially when you compare it to the most primitive (and general) form of music, banging on a piece of wood thereby making rhythms. Some electronic music equipment (MPC3000, BOSS pedals :)) actually has that kind of directness in creation, computers have not (unless you make music by banging them on the hood, or similar). You're right that computers can be musical instruments, but I think all that pointing and clicking is frustrating... And, I think other people share that view too... I believe that Brian Eno said the following about computers as a musical instrument, "too little Africa", and generally, I agree on this. IMO, nothing's a bigger musical turn-off than pissing around with mice too much... But I'll change my mind the moment Logic comes with touchscreen or Nintendo lightgun support... :) /johan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-03-09 10:24Galen BealsI have one too: How is a digital synth not a computer? This is compleatly rediculus. There
From:
Galen Beals
To:
Date:
Thu, 9 Mar 2000 10:24:07 -0000
Subject:
RE: (idm) Re: lets talk equip.
Reply to:
Re: (idm) Re: lets talk equip.
permalink · <NDBBKEGPIGHEMBNFKHBDOEKICAAA.galenb@vinton.com>
I have one too: How is a digital synth not a computer? This is compleatly rediculus. There is nothing vibrating any more inside of an MPC2000 then in a computer. I can understand your point... But I disagree. I think you could make a better case if you where talking about Guitars brass or wind and other 'Real'(Read: tangeble) musical intruments. As some one who uses both aproches(hardware and software), I feel it's entirly up to the composers do decide what makes them happy. If it opens up your mind to new creative possablitys then it's a good thing. I have absolutly no preference. Although, I have solely been using my computer lately and I enjoy verry much. One last thing: It's compleatly rediculs to blame computers for a recent glut of bad electronic music. Some of the best music I listen to is made copleatly inside of a computer (Aphex, Ae, Jake Mandell, monolake or Lexaunculpt) -=GB=- -----Original Message----- From: Christophe McKeon [mailto:c.mckeon@rcn.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 11:07 PM To: idm@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (idm) Re: lets talk equip. Computers have mad thingness. They got more thingness' then anythin. My question: How is a computer not a musical instrument? *c ajwells@ix.netcom.com wrote:
quoted 8 lines Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 11:45:41 -0600> > Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 11:45:41 -0600 > > To: International Damage Machines <idm@hyperreal.org> > > From: Ernesto Ikerd <IkerdEA@lmtas.lmco.com> > > Subject: Re: (idm) lets talk equip. > > Message-id: <200003081745.LAA05850@cliffy.lmtas.lmco.com> > > > > >I think the dream setup for me > > >would be entirely software based with nothing but knobs, faders and
midi
quoted 1 line instruments atached to the computer. Currently I'm programing some> > >instruments atached to the computer. Currently I'm programing some
stuff
quoted 1 line in Csound (I'd upgrade to jMax but my machine is too slow). With a> > >in Csound (I'd upgrade to jMax but my machine is too slow). With a
little
quoted 1 line knoweldge in Csound and the possibility of jMax, I wonder why anyone> > >knoweldge in Csound and the possibility of jMax, I wonder why anyone
buys
quoted 45 lines retail outboard gear at all.> > >retail outboard gear at all. > > Well there are plenty of electronic artists who either hate the matrix > that working in a computer environment throws you into or dont use them > much because they play live and understand the problems that one can get > into with excessive reliance on computers... > > I know that some people work with computers and love them... and buy > into the myth that you can do "anything" with computers... but one of > the reasons for all of the sameness in electronic music at the moment is > because working in a computer sequencing environment does not present > the opportunity for things to fuck up in an interesting way and it also > removes the artist from the reality that sound emanates from THINGS > vibrating, not numbers approximating waves... that physical quality of > sound is often lost or changed in a computer environment... > > Of course computer audio environments do make it possible for a large > segment of the listening public to create as opposed to consuming, but > when you see the glut of "electronica" currently polluting the stores, > you have to wonder whether that is a good thing... there has always been > a finite amount of true substance in any artistic field, and that > percentage doesnt change with advances in technology... > > Many artists at the forefront of modern music are rejecting the > sequencing environment for more of a hands on approach because they feel > constricted by the "limitless possibilities" of the computer... in art, > unlike most other areas of life, more choices does not equal a better > situation... art usually thrives on limitation, and I think we are going > to see more and more artists moving beyond the computer in the next few > years... the more you TOUCH a piece of art the more you empart yourself > onto it... and you cant touch anything inside your Logic environment > > I mean just look at the continued and even increased popularity of > analog equipment and hardware sequencers... an Expander or an MPC3000 > hasnt lost any value despite all of the computer emulations... there > will always be something about the "thingness" of musical instruments > that computers cannot touch... > > Of course your experience may vary... > > A. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-03-09 21:55Johan KotlinskiAt 10:24 2000-03-09 -0000, you wrote: >I have one too: > >How is a digital synth not a com
From:
Johan Kotlinski
To:
Date:
Thu, 09 Mar 2000 22:55:19 +0100
Subject:
RE: (idm) Re: lets talk equip.
Reply to:
RE: (idm) Re: lets talk equip.
permalink · <3.0.6.32.20000309225519.0098d760@darkface.pp.se>
At 10:24 2000-03-09 -0000, you wrote:
quoted 6 lines I have one too:>I have one too: > >How is a digital synth not a computer? > >This is compleatly rediculus. There is nothing vibrating any more inside of >an MPC2000 then in a computer.
The matter is that of the previosly spoken "thinginess"... which means that synths are dedicated for music making, ergonomically and functionally designed for the purpose of making music, in contrast to personal computers.
quoted 2 lines As some one who uses both aproches(hardware and software), I feel it's>As some one who uses both aproches(hardware and software), I feel it's >entirly up to the composers do decide what makes them happy. If it opens up
Naturally, this is a subjective matter. But I myself find that point-clicking in Cubase brings stupid and unnecessary abstraction to things, it feels more like setting up a table in Excel than creating. Using dedicated hardware sequencers allows me to focus on the music in a way that Cubase does not... But then that's different from program to program, I've used Amiga trackers that I loved, I guess that because they make use of the keyboard to a much larger extent than Cubase... /johan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-03-09 02:17Lee Azzarello>ajwells@ix.netcom.com wrote this on 3/8/00 1:32 PM >> >I think the dream setup for me >>
From:
Lee Azzarello
To:
idm
Date:
Wed, 8 Mar 00 21:17:42 -0500
Subject:
Re: (idm) Re: lets talk equip.
permalink · <200003090222.VAA19288@college.antioch-college.edu>
quoted 1 line ajwells@ix.netcom.com wrote this on 3/8/00 1:32 PM>ajwells@ix.netcom.com wrote this on 3/8/00 1:32 PM
quoted 11 lines I think the dream setup for me>> >I think the dream setup for me >> >would be entirely software based with nothing but knobs, faders and midi >> >instruments atached to the computer. Currently I'm programing some stuff >> >in Csound (I'd upgrade to jMax but my machine is too slow). With a little >> >knoweldge in Csound and the possibility of jMax, I wonder why anyone buys >> >retail outboard gear at all. > >Well there are plenty of electronic artists who either hate the matrix >that working in a computer environment throws you into or dont use them >much because they play live and understand the problems that one can get >into with excessive reliance on computers...
But the matrix was just a movie. I can understand the madness of numbers but hell, we _are_ talking about electronic music (analog or digital), which is based on numbers, circuits and logic. With a stable opperating system and well tested computer environment, I don't see how there could be problems for live digital performance.
quoted 8 lines I know that some people work with computers and love them... and buy>I know that some people work with computers and love them... and buy >into the myth that you can do "anything" with computers... but one of >the reasons for all of the sameness in electronic music at the moment is >because working in a computer sequencing environment does not present >the opportunity for things to fuck up in an interesting way and it also >removes the artist from the reality that sound emanates from THINGS >vibrating, not numbers approximating waves... that physical quality of >sound is often lost or changed in a computer environment...
I don't understand. I mean, speaking of electronic music, there is nothing that vibrates, or even moves inside analog _or_ digital equipment. The only thing that moves the air to produce sound is the loudspeaker. If you break down synthesis into electronic waveforms, a program like Csound or jMax is not using sampled anything. It is generating the same waveforms that an old analogue synthesizer would be generating. It really is the same thing. I understand the necessity of physical vibrations with non-electronic music (being a classical pianist myself), I still haven't found a sampled piano that sounds anything like the Steinway Grand in the hall I practice in. As far as using anomaly and unintended design advantages to produce new sounds, people _are_ doing this with digital equipment. Tetsu Inoue makes great music using 'glitched' digital shit. My ears are quickly becoming acustomed to the CD skipping sound and I have heard that effect used on some recordings and in live situations, all to great results. Digital equipment does fuck up and makes really interesting sounds when it does. My old computer can't handle more than three notes at once when I am using a soft synth. It starts to produce defects when i do this. These defects are quite facinating and go far beyong the silly digital 'clicks' which characterize many older programs. A friend of mine pushed Rebirth to some very strange limits as well. Try cranking up the BPM meter as high as it will go and moving in and out of patterns.
quoted 6 lines Of course computer audio environments do make it possible for a large>Of course computer audio environments do make it possible for a large >segment of the listening public to create as opposed to consuming, but >when you see the glut of "electronica" currently polluting the stores, >you have to wonder whether that is a good thing... there has always been >a finite amount of true substance in any artistic field, and that >percentage doesnt change with advances in technology...
I don't see how that is relivant to exploring newer methods of producing sound.
quoted 8 lines Many artists at the forefront of modern music are rejecting the>Many artists at the forefront of modern music are rejecting the >sequencing environment for more of a hands on approach because they feel >constricted by the "limitless possibilities" of the computer... in art, >unlike most other areas of life, more choices does not equal a better >situation... art usually thrives on limitation, and I think we are going >to see more and more artists moving beyond the computer in the next few >years... the more you TOUCH a piece of art the more you empart yourself >onto it... and you cant touch anything inside your Logic environment
Touching devices is the most important part of playing music. That's why many people are making physical interfaces for software environments. This is the digital ideal I'm looking forward to and exploring myself. MIDI still has limitless applications. With physical interfaces I _can_ touch my logic environment.
quoted 5 lines I mean just look at the continued and even increased popularity of>I mean just look at the continued and even increased popularity of >analog equipment and hardware sequencers... an Expander or an MPC3000 >hasnt lost any value despite all of the computer emulations... there >will always be something about the "thingness" of musical instruments >that computers cannot touch...
An MPC is a digital device. It has a computer and an opperating system. An expander is a signal processing device that is the opposite of a compressor. You can't make any music with an expander, you can only affect it. It dosen't vibrate either. regards, Lee Azzarello --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-03-09 02:59Druscaajwells@ix.netcom.com wrote this on 3/8/00 1:32 PM > ... but one of the reasons for all of
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Drusca
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idm
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Wed, 8 Mar 2000 21:59:18 -0500 (EST)
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Re: (idm) Re: lets talk equip.
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ajwells@ix.netcom.com wrote this on 3/8/00 1:32 PM
quoted 2 lines ... but one of the reasons for all of the sameness in electronic music> ... but one of the reasons for all of the sameness in electronic music > at the moment is because...
Huh ? I'm curious to know how broad the range of music you listen to is. Andrei --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-03-09 03:25Ghetto TR-707Actually, as much as I want hardware stuff, I don't seem to have any problem with the comp
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Ghetto TR-707
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Wed, 08 Mar 2000 19:25:52 PST
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Actually, as much as I want hardware stuff, I don't seem to have any problem with the computer style interface. It just depends on how you wanna do it. I don't want to take a computer out live, and I can't do alot of impromptu on software. rebirth is actually pretty cool if you use an external midi keyboard to program the 808 and 909 in real time. But an electribe-r is much cheaper and lighter and less likely to crash and blah blah blah. I LOVE the way you can edit a pattern in real time on that thing. And no I'm not saying the sounds are dope. They are cool, but why not use it as a sequencer too? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-03-09 03:41Ghetto TR-707> > >I don't understand. I mean, speaking of electronic music, there is >nothing that vibr
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Ghetto TR-707
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Wed, 08 Mar 2000 19:41:58 PST
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quoted 9 lines I don't understand. I mean, speaking of electronic music, there is> > >I don't understand. I mean, speaking of electronic music, there is >nothing that vibrates, or even moves inside analog _or_ digital >equipment. The only thing that moves the air to produce sound is the >loudspeaker. If you break down synthesis into electronic waveforms, a >program like Csound or jMax is not using sampled anything. It is >generating the same waveforms that an old analogue synthesizer would be >generating.
Good stuff here. I believe it was our beloved French synthesist Jean Michel Jarre who said something to the effect that electronic music only means it's being produced electronically, the sound that travels through the air is not electronic itself. Who cares what you use. It is how you use it. Driving a computer to the limits is a cool idea to explore, just like using a 303 to NOT sound like a bass-guitar. Just so'm to spice it up ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-03-09 19:06Twine soundOne last thing: It's compleatly rediculs to >blame computers for a recent glut of bad elec
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Twine sound
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Thu, 09 Mar 2000 13:06:32 CST
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RE: (idm) Re: lets talk equip.
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One last thing: It's compleatly rediculs to
quoted 5 lines blame computers for a recent glut of bad electronic music. Some of the best>blame computers for a recent glut of bad electronic music. Some of the best >music I listen to is made copleatly inside of a computer (Aphex, Ae, Jake >Mandell, monolake or Lexaunculpt) > >-=GB=-
I think that the statement here is more in reference to the tools being so readily available now that everyone and their brother think that they can compose music. And that is why there is so much crap out there. Because, regardless of the tools, one still needs to be intelligent and have not only a good ear for sound, but a wealth of knowledge in the genre of music they wish to work, and of it's history. But, most ppl are too lazy to do these things. And end up repeating the same experiments that have already been done. Or are content doing the same crap everyone else is doing. So, IMHO, it's not the equipment you have, but how far you push it. :) Love, Chad Greg Malcolm/Chad Mossholder Twine/Twinesound Audio Productions http://home.earthlink.net/~twinesound http://www.adastra-records.com http://www.mp3.com/twine http://www.zero1media.com http://pulserecords.com/twine ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-03-09 20:19a.Puls> One last thing: It's compleatly > rediculs to > blame computers for a recent glut of bad
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Thu, 9 Mar 2000 12:19:08 -0800 (PST)
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RE: (idm) Re: lets talk equip.
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quoted 3 lines One last thing: It's compleatly> One last thing: It's compleatly > rediculs to > blame computers for a recent glut of bad electronic music.
Totally agreed, but furthermore, it is stupid to blame bad music of any kind on anything other than uninventive, boring people... Come on. It's what you do with what you've got. I've made music completely on hardware, and completely on computers, and both can be rewarding, it just depends on how you want to work at the time. Right now, I'm setting up a combination of both, because I love what I can do in both worlds. -Andy. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-03-09 22:55TheevilD@aol.comI think the real joy of equipment isn't the object or the sound but the vibe: having huge
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I think the real joy of equipment isn't the object or the sound but the vibe: having huge racks of keyboards, knobs, wires and buttons naturally puts you in the mood for music making in a way that a computer just doesn't. They simply look cooler. My best advice to music makers is to complicate your gear wherever possible: even if you're only using a PC, you get a hell of a lot of creativity simply by draping your speaker cables twice around the room. j --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-03-09 17:38Galen BealsAhhh. But have you seen the PowerBook G3? They are all about SEXY MUSIC. I'm tellin you ma
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Galen Beals
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Thu, 9 Mar 2000 17:38:43 -0000
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Ahhh. But have you seen the PowerBook G3? They are all about SEXY MUSIC. I'm tellin you man. -=GB=- -----Original Message----- From: TheevilD@aol.com [mailto:TheevilD@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2000 10:56 PM To: idm@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (idm) Re: lets talk equip. I think the real joy of equipment isn't the object or the sound but the vibe: having huge racks of keyboards, knobs, wires and buttons naturally puts you in the mood for music making in a way that a computer just doesn't. They simply look cooler. My best advice to music makers is to complicate your gear wherever possible: even if you're only using a PC, you get a hell of a lot of creativity simply by draping your speaker cables twice around the room. j --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-03-10 03:42Slick 6669EXACTLY, also id like to know how many of all these software enthusiasts actually pay for
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Slick 6669
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Fri, 10 Mar 2000 03:42:25 GMT
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RE: (idm) Re: lets talk equip.
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EXACTLY, also id like to know how many of all these software enthusiasts actually pay for the software they use,...maybe its a cheap way for some to get started, hardware cant really be pirated hehehe Overall it doesnt matter, music is music. period. Slick. mp3.com/1302 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-03-13 00:15Stephen D. Olsonbrian eno is a bit of a fucker though really, stuff like "the drop" might not fit a grid,
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Stephen D. Olson
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Date:
Sun, 12 Mar 2000 16:15:42 -0800
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Re: (idm) Re: lets talk equip.
permalink · <38CC332E.438D6402@risd.edu>
brian eno is a bit of a fucker though really, stuff like "the drop" might not fit a grid, but it downright sucks huh? steve Galen Beals wrote:
quoted 52 lines -----Original Message-----> -----Original Message----- > From: ajwells@ix.netcom.com [mailto:ajwells@ix.netcom.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 10:13 PM > To: idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: (idm) Re: lets talk equip. > > > Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 00:55:12 +0100 (MET) > > To: idm@hyperreal.org > > From: Johan Kotlinski <spleen@darkface.pp.se> > > Subject: Re: (idm) Re: lets talk equip. > > Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1000309003608.4702A-100000@warwick> > > > > On Wed, 8 Mar 2000, Christophe McKeon wrote: > > > > > Computers have mad thingness. They got more thingness' then anythin. > > > My question: How is a computer not a musical instrument? > > Anything can be a musical instrument... that wasnt the point... the > point was that music is a highly specialized area of working... people > spend their entire lives designing instruments to be played and that > > <snip!> > > And Eno has made many good points about how the sequencing environment > produces music which is welded to the grid, no matter how complex that > grid may be... as he mentions, you can feel those bars and chunks of > audio cycling by your ears when you listen to so many records lately, > and its boring after awhile because your ear tunes out unless it > perceives a threat (ie a possible change or human inflection or > mistake)... and he makes another great point about how computers > separate us from the muscular action necessary to produce acts which > mean something and have a relation between a sound and the action which > produced it > > A. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > ------------------------------------- > > Ugh! It sounds to me like you need to stop listening to so much "grid" like > music... Oh! what am I thinking?!! Electronic music IS Grid music!!! Give me > a break! That's the beauty of it all. That's why I like Electronic music in > the first place. It's the music of Robots and hyper accelerators. Geez! > > -=GB=- > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
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