IDM Mailing Archive

quoted 1 line [synctank]

>[synctank]

quoted 1 line skinny puppy: the process

>skinny puppy: the process

I was going through some papers in my house the other day and I found some press clipping put out by the band announcing Dwayne's death. Because they were on American Recordings at the time, there was a couple blurbs about how offended they were at the record label for trying to capitalize of his death. Well, it reminded me of that album, The Process, which was the only one they did for American. I remember how horrible I thought it was when it came out. Now I thought 'let's give it another spin. Maybe my sensiblilities have changed. I still really love a lot of their other stuff and maybe I was too quick to write it off. I'll dig it up and put it on.' Dude. What a fucking horrible album. Embarrasing. I know there was much turmoil working on the album even before Dwayne's death with them switching producers and studios and the band ultimately breaking up and then Dwayne died and they still had to finish the album for release. Still, even those aren't good enough excuses for putting out that piece of shit (minus the only decent song on there- Blue Serge I think it is). All those heavy metal guitars. Totally misdirected. None of the melodic stuff works for me, and the noisy electronic stuff is just a shadow of what they once were. And since I'm such a sucker, I can't wait to hear the new SP stuff (if it ever fucking comes out). The new Ohgr is better than his first solo release, although it has this shiny sparkly sheen which makes it sound like it's on a major label. Haven't heard that new Cevin Key thing. Give me Too Dark Park or Last Rights any day. Brian.

It's all about the Two Dark Park! A totally brilliant record. It still holds it's own today. If they can make tracks as good as "Frozen Sky"(the track with Ogre's vocals) on cEvin's Ghost of Every Room, I think it will be great. Rob ::::::Component Records::::::: Box 783, Somers, Ct 06071 www.componentrecords.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Albers, Brian A. <BAlbers@premiereradio.com> To: synctank <purist@synctank.net>; <chicagoidm@yahoogroups.com> Cc: <chicagoElectro@yahoogroups.com>; <idm@hyperreal.org>; <purist@yahoogroups.com>; <playlists@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 5:15 PM Subject: RE: [idm] hidden forms 122 > 08.09.03 > wnur 89.3fm chicago

quoted 6 lines [synctank]

> > >[synctank] > > >skinny puppy: the process > > I was going through some papers in my house the other day and I found some press clipping put out by the band announcing Dwayne's

death. Because they were on American Recordings at the time, there was a couple blurbs about how offended they were at the record label for trying to capitalize of his death.

quoted 2 lines Well, it reminded me of that album, The Process, which was the only one they did for Ameri

> > Well, it reminded me of that album, The Process, which was the only one they did for American. I remember how horrible I thought

it was when it came out.

quoted 2 lines Now I thought 'let's give it another spin. Maybe my sensiblilities have changed.

> > Now I thought 'let's give it another spin. Maybe my sensiblilities have changed. I still really love a lot of their other stuff

and maybe I was too quick to write it off. I'll dig it up and put it on.'

quoted 2 lines Dude. What a fucking horrible album. Embarrasing. I know there was much turmoil working on

> > Dude. What a fucking horrible album. Embarrasing. I know there was much turmoil working on the album even before Dwayne's death

with them switching producers and studios and the band ultimately breaking up and then Dwayne died and they still had to finish the album for release.

quoted 2 lines Still, even those aren't good enough excuses for putting out that piece of shit (minu

> > Still, even those aren't good enough excuses for putting out that piece of shit (minus the only decent song on there- Blue Serge I

think it is). All those heavy metal guitars. Totally misdirected. None of the melodic stuff works for me, and the noisy electronic stuff is just a shadow of what they once were.

quoted 2 lines And since I'm such a sucker, I can't wait to hear the new SP stuff (if it ever f

> > And since I'm such a sucker, I can't wait to hear the new SP stuff (if it ever fucking comes out). The new Ohgr is better than his

first solo release, although it has this shiny sparkly sheen which makes it sound like it's on a major label. Haven't heard that new Cevin Key thing.

quoted 3 lines Give me Too Dark Park or Last Rights any day. Brian.

> > Give me Too Dark Park or Last Rights any day. Brian. >

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quoted 4 lines It's all about the Two Dark Park!

>It's all about the Two Dark Park! > >A totally brilliant record. It still holds it's >own today.

yeah puppy is one of those bands that even during the whole glut of post-jourgensen industrial/metal crossover shit i always thought would stay true to their roots, and then they fucking dropped that process crap. it kind of sealed the whole thing for me, that and "filth pig" by ministry. those 2 records came out right around the same time and both sucked so hard i was unable to listen to ministry, cocks or skinny puppy for almost 10 years. i just rediscovered all those 3 though and thankfully most of it holds up exceptionally, especially puppy. unfortunately my heroin addict former roommate converted most of my puppy cd catalog into scabs on his arms, so i was left with only the vinyl copies of vivisectvi and mind-tpi ... i went out a couple weekends ago and repurchased too dark park along with twitch and land of rape and honey by ministry. too dark park was such a revelation to me in high school -- the distorted drumloop on nature's revenge where it skips the beat every 17 beats or so fucking blew my young mind, and the intensity of the production rivals the bomb squad of public enemy fame in terms of densly packed layers of sound. brilliance. ministry's twitch and l.o.r+h were (in my humble opinion) the pinnacle of their career, propbably peaking with l.o.r+h and waning a bit with "the mind is a terrible thing to taste", which had some brilliant stuff on it but also had the song "test" which was a horrible omen of shitty rap/rock fusions yet to come. put on land of rape and honey some time and see if you don't erupt into a spontaneous solo mosh pit a la medusa's c. 1990 ... you can't stop it. "the missing" and "deity" really set the bar for all that metal-guitar driven industrial shit that never quite reached as far as that record. twitch on the other hand came before al got his chugga-chugga on and when he was still flirting ever so lightly with his "no really, i'm from london, not hyde park" persona ... it's a fucking masterpiece of cheezy industrial pop, and is especially interesting to digest in tandem with it's bizzaro twin album made during the same recording sessions, revolting cocks "big sexy land". anyway shit i kind of ran off on this tangent. i hope others will share some special al jourgensen memories that don't involve vomit or lollapalooza. thanks for your time. -aprox ps. my next post will analyze what happened when puppy and jourgensen got together to make that somewhat flawed, somewhat brilliant, fully schizophrenic concoction known as "rabies". --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Tuesday, August 12, 2003, at 10:38 PM, Aster X Prodax wrote:

quoted 5 lines yeah puppy is one of those bands that even during the whole glut of

> > yeah puppy is one of those bands that even during the whole glut of > post-jourgensen industrial/metal crossover shit i always thought would > stay true to their roots, and then they fucking dropped that process > crap.

you know, i see a lot of people posting this, but i just dont get it. aside from candle, the cd was a general continuation of everything they've ever done. it felt like skinny puppy, and made sense as far as musical evolution goes. it was a good cd, i'm just wondering why people refer to it as crap without actually saying what they dont like about it.

quoted 3 lines ps. my next post will analyze what happened when puppy and jourgensen

> ps. my next post will analyze what happened when puppy and jourgensen > got together to make that somewhat flawed, somewhat brilliant, fully > schizophrenic concoction known as "rabies".

im looking forward to this. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

At 11:03 PM 8/12/2003 -0400, you wrote:

quoted 12 lines On Tuesday, August 12, 2003, at 10:38 PM, Aster X Prodax wrote:

>On Tuesday, August 12, 2003, at 10:38 PM, Aster X Prodax wrote: >> >>yeah puppy is one of those bands that even during the whole glut of >>post-jourgensen industrial/metal crossover shit i always thought would >>stay true to their roots, and then they fucking dropped that process crap. > >you know, i see a lot of people posting this, but i just dont get it. > >aside from candle, the cd was a general continuation of everything they've >ever done. it felt like skinny puppy, and made sense as far as musical >evolution goes. it was a good cd, i'm just wondering why people refer to >it as crap without actually saying what they dont like about it.

I think you need to have grown up with 80's industrial to really enjoy it, as there's definitely the element of "doing it first even though it's not that exciting in hindsight." Most everyone who's spoken to me about it has said "oh man, at the time it blew my mind!" When I listened to Too Dark Park, I was mostly bored by it. Maybe I didn't take enough drugs? Perhaps listening to it over 10 years after it came out tainted it? Maybe it wasn't really that good? ;D But yeah. It seems that if you weren't into it in the 80's, the only way to get into it now is to fully adopt a gothy lifestyle. derek -- eggytoast.com - eggtastic.com ----- it's in your grocer's freezer --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Puppy's one of the only industrial artists from those days that still drops my jaw. Meat Beat Manifesto, too. Nobody's really done it like that since. Renegade Soundwave also falls into this category for me, but I wouldn't consider it industrial. Rape and Honey comes close, still can't decide about 242 (too many positive associations to be objective). Can I get a shout out for Severed Heads? Along these lines, anybody interested in checking out some new industrial should listen to Kill Memory Crash on Ghostly. It's the first fresh stuff I've heard for a while. Perhaps the beginning of a renaissance a la electroclash? Certainly worthy of it... big ups to the late 80's Medusa's posse! Those all-ages nights were certainly an eye opener for an ignorant lad from the suburbs... chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "EggyToast" <eggy@eggtastic.com> To: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 9:23 PM Subject: Re: [idm] puppy (was: hidden forms 122...)

quoted 7 lines At 11:03 PM 8/12/2003 -0400, you wrote:

> At 11:03 PM 8/12/2003 -0400, you wrote: > > >On Tuesday, August 12, 2003, at 10:38 PM, Aster X Prodax wrote: > >> > >>yeah puppy is one of those bands that even during the whole glut of > >>post-jourgensen industrial/metal crossover shit i always thought would > >>stay true to their roots, and then they fucking dropped that process

crap.

quoted 4 lines you know, i see a lot of people posting this, but i just dont get it.

> > > >you know, i see a lot of people posting this, but i just dont get it. > > > >aside from candle, the cd was a general continuation of everything

they've

quoted 7 lines ever done. it felt like skinny puppy, and made sense as far as musical

> >ever done. it felt like skinny puppy, and made sense as far as musical > >evolution goes. it was a good cd, i'm just wondering why people refer to > >it as crap without actually saying what they dont like about it. > > I think you need to have grown up with 80's industrial to really enjoy it, > as there's definitely the element of "doing it first even though it's not > that exciting in hindsight." Most everyone who's spoken to me about it

has

quoted 3 lines said "oh man, at the time it blew my mind!"

> said "oh man, at the time it blew my mind!" > > When I listened to Too Dark Park, I was mostly bored by it. Maybe I

didn't

quoted 1 line take enough drugs? Perhaps listening to it over 10 years after it came

> take enough drugs? Perhaps listening to it over 10 years after it came

out

quoted 18 lines tainted it?

> tainted it? > > Maybe it wasn't really that good? ;D > > But yeah. It seems that if you weren't into it in the 80's, the only way > to get into it now is to fully adopt a gothy lifestyle. > > derek > -- > eggytoast.com - eggtastic.com > ----- > it's in your grocer's freezer > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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quoted 4 lines Puppy's one of the only industrial artists from those days that still drops

> Puppy's one of the only industrial artists from those days that still drops > my jaw. Meat Beat Manifesto, too. Nobody's really done it like that since. > Renegade Soundwave also falls into this category for me, but I wouldn't > consider it industrial.

Renegade soundwave is fun stuff. I see them closer to Pop Will Eat Itself than industrial.

quoted 2 lines Rape and Honey comes close, still can't decide about 242 (too many positive

> Rape and Honey comes close, still can't decide about 242 (too many positive > associations to be objective).

Tyranny for You was a pretty amazing CD. The production was ultra tight. I was kinda bummed when they went all murking on Evil Off and the other one that came out about the same time. I picked up the new 242 Ep and I REALLY didn't like it. Not sure what's up with that.

quoted 1 line Can I get a shout out for Severed Heads?

> Can I get a shout out for Severed Heads?

Umm.....

quoted 4 lines Along these lines, anybody interested in checking out some new industrial

> Along these lines, anybody interested in checking out some new industrial > should listen to Kill Memory Crash on Ghostly. It's the first fresh stuff > I've heard for a while. Perhaps the beginning of a renaissance a la > electroclash? Certainly worthy of it...

Well it could happen we've surely got enough angst to go around...Crap economy, dubya's imperialism.... Rob! --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Funny that this came up yesterday as I was sitting here Iming co-workers to see if any of them had some SP or ministry mp3s. Too Dark Park never gets tired, I love that album and am still kicking myself for not taking my friend up on those free tickets cuz "I ain't no fucking goth"!!! Last rights is great too and the 12" version of inquisition drops in real nicely in an idm set. - Renegade Soundwave, yeah they're very different but jeez those basslines are incredible. - As for Kill memory crash, if there is a renaissance then they're definitely leading the way. That 12" is really good, it's hard and dirty with a definite idm/electro tint to it. It's refreshing to hear stuff like that and good to hear people talking about it. It seems like we've hit a lull in terms of good idm records coming out and the interest in all out idm wankery seems to be getting faint. It would be nice to see something new rise up out of all of this, strongly rooted here but going somewhere else. I don't know about the rest of you guys but vocals, dancing and community are the things that excite me these days. I don't need all three at the same time but I do need at least one. What's on my ipod? 1994, you know, when IDM was the shit! There's such a lack of focus these days, you can't mix one record with the other because everyone's off being an egotistical circuit board surfer. When did we all get so insular and mellow, it makes me feel old. - Are there any 18 yr olds on this list anymore, do the college kids give a fuck anymore? I hope so. - -----Original Message----- From: component [mailto:component@mindstorm.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 8:45 AM To: Chris Henry; idm@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [idm] puppy (was: hidden forms 122...)

quoted 2 lines Puppy's one of the only industrial artists from those days that still

> Puppy's one of the only industrial artists from those days that still > drops my jaw. Meat Beat Manifesto, too. Nobody's really done it like

quoted 2 lines that since. Renegade Soundwave also falls into this category for me,

> that since. Renegade Soundwave also falls into this category for me, > but I wouldn't consider it industrial.

Renegade soundwave is fun stuff. I see them closer to Pop Will Eat Itself than industrial.

quoted 2 lines Rape and Honey comes close, still can't decide about 242 (too many

> Rape and Honey comes close, still can't decide about 242 (too many > positive associations to be objective).

Tyranny for You was a pretty amazing CD. The production was ultra tight. I was kinda bummed when they went all murking on Evil Off and the other one that came out about the same time. I picked up the new 242 Ep and I REALLY didn't like it. Not sure what's up with that.

quoted 1 line Can I get a shout out for Severed Heads?

> Can I get a shout out for Severed Heads?

Umm.....

quoted 4 lines Along these lines, anybody interested in checking out some new

> Along these lines, anybody interested in checking out some new > industrial should listen to Kill Memory Crash on Ghostly. It's the > first fresh stuff I've heard for a while. Perhaps the beginning of a > renaissance a la electroclash? Certainly worthy of it...

Well it could happen we've surely got enough angst to go around...Crap economy, dubya's imperialism.... Rob! --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 2 lines Are there any 18 yr olds on this list anymore, do the college kids give

> Are there any 18 yr olds on this list anymore, do the college kids give > a fuck anymore? I hope so.

College kid here! :) Not 18 anymore though, 24. Anyways, for me IDM is about making new stuff, exploring new sounds and to be honest I generally don't care wether my music is danceable or dj'able or not. In that respect, I feel a lot of affinity with skinny puppy and the like because in those days it was all about doing stuff with your equipment that was not in the manuals, and that was all that mattered. I don't mind the party scene, but I don't care for it either.

quoted 4 lines I don't know about the rest of you guys but vocals, dancing and

> I don't know about the rest of you guys but vocals, dancing and > community are the things that excite me these days. I don't need all > three at the same time but I do need at least one. What's on my ipod? > 1994, you know, when IDM was the shit!

I don't think Sean & Rob, to name a bunch, really gave a fuck wether their beats worked well on the dancefloor back in '94. They were cool because they felt like discovering new beats and new sounds and they didn't worry too much about sounding 'IDM' because at that time it did not really exist as such. They didn't worry about being hip-hop enough either, which is probably the reason why they became so cool in the first place. I have a theory and it goes like this: once you can think up a name for a genre, the genre is artistically dead. Why? Well, the moment people start calling a genre by a name, there is a certain agreed-upon stylistic element to the music that becomes it's defining property. At that point, you cannot by definition be a style-X artist anymore without sounding the part; e.g. if you don't sound like all the other drill 'n bass acts, you're not a drill 'n bass act. Try this trick with your favorite genre. The problem you described earlier:

quoted 1 line It seems like we've hit a lull in terms of good idm records coming out

> It seems like we've hit a lull in terms of good idm records coming out

..is effectively the IDM genre fallling into this trap. Soon, there will be only copycats. And why? Essentially it is your own fault :) Look at this again:

quoted 1 line It seems like we've hit a lull in terms of good _idm_ records coming out

> It seems like we've hit a lull in terms of good _idm_ records coming out

..so, basically, you are waiting for albums that sound more or less like what you already know, at least enough to fit into your idea of what IDM is, and yet at the same time you expect these records to be as fresh and original as those early records back in '94? There is a contradiction here, don't you agree? Look for stuff that does _not_ sound IDM. Fuck IDM!

quoted 60 lines -

> - > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: component [mailto:component@mindstorm.com] > Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 8:45 AM > To: Chris Henry; idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: Re: [idm] puppy (was: hidden forms 122...) > > > > Puppy's one of the only industrial artists from those days that still > > drops my jaw. Meat Beat Manifesto, too. Nobody's really done it like > > > that since. Renegade Soundwave also falls into this category for me, > > but I wouldn't consider it industrial. > > Renegade soundwave is fun stuff. I see them closer to Pop Will Eat > Itself > than industrial. > > > Rape and Honey comes close, still can't decide about 242 (too many > > positive associations to be objective). > > Tyranny for You was a pretty amazing CD. The production was ultra tight. > > I was kinda bummed when they went all murking on Evil Off and the other > one that came out about the same time. I picked up the new 242 Ep and > I REALLY didn't like it. Not sure what's up with that. > > > Can I get a shout out for Severed Heads? > > Umm..... > > > Along these lines, anybody interested in checking out some new > > industrial should listen to Kill Memory Crash on Ghostly. It's the > > first fresh stuff I've heard for a while. Perhaps the beginning of a > > renaissance a la electroclash? Certainly worthy of it... > > Well it could happen we've surely got enough angst to go around...Crap > economy, > dubya's imperialism.... > > > Rob! > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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quoted 1 line Look for stuff that does _not_ sound IDM. Fuck IDM!

> Look for stuff that does _not_ sound IDM. Fuck IDM!

..let me rephrase that: fuck the idea of IDM being a genre. Think about it as a way of thinking, or better still: as an incarnation of the same way of thinking that industrial was when it was at its best. What i'm saying is: look out for the next incarnation, don't look back too much. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Bah! I'm so bored with the bedroom hermits... From space to circuits, I chose space. -----Original Message----- From: Denis de Leeuw Duarte [mailto:denis@ch.its.tudelft.nl] Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 11:34 AM To: Record Camp Cc: 'component'; idm@hyperreal.org Subject: RE: [idm] puppy (was: hidden forms 122...)

quoted 2 lines Are there any 18 yr olds on this list anymore, do the college kids

> Are there any 18 yr olds on this list anymore, do the college kids > give a fuck anymore? I hope so.

College kid here! :) Not 18 anymore though, 24. Anyways, for me IDM is about making new stuff, exploring new sounds and to be honest I generally don't care wether my music is danceable or dj'able or not. In that respect, I feel a lot of affinity with skinny puppy and the like because in those days it was all about doing stuff with your equipment that was not in the manuals, and that was all that mattered. I don't mind the party scene, but I don't care for it either.

quoted 4 lines I don't know about the rest of you guys but vocals, dancing and

> I don't know about the rest of you guys but vocals, dancing and > community are the things that excite me these days. I don't need all > three at the same time but I do need at least one. What's on my ipod? > 1994, you know, when IDM was the shit!

I don't think Sean & Rob, to name a bunch, really gave a fuck wether their beats worked well on the dancefloor back in '94. They were cool because they felt like discovering new beats and new sounds and they didn't worry too much about sounding 'IDM' because at that time it did not really exist as such. They didn't worry about being hip-hop enough either, which is probably the reason why they became so cool in the first place. I have a theory and it goes like this: once you can think up a name for a genre, the genre is artistically dead. Why? Well, the moment people start calling a genre by a name, there is a certain agreed-upon stylistic element to the music that becomes it's defining property. At that point, you cannot by definition be a style-X artist anymore without sounding the part; e.g. if you don't sound like all the other drill 'n bass acts, you're not a drill 'n bass act. Try this trick with your favorite genre. The problem you described earlier:

quoted 1 line It seems like we've hit a lull in terms of good idm records coming out

> It seems like we've hit a lull in terms of good idm records coming out

..is effectively the IDM genre fallling into this trap. Soon, there will be only copycats. And why? Essentially it is your own fault :) Look at this again:

quoted 2 lines It seems like we've hit a lull in terms of good _idm_ records coming

> It seems like we've hit a lull in terms of good _idm_ records coming > out

..so, basically, you are waiting for albums that sound more or less like what you already know, at least enough to fit into your idea of what IDM is, and yet at the same time you expect these records to be as fresh and original as those early records back in '94? There is a contradiction here, don't you agree? Look for stuff that does _not_ sound IDM. Fuck IDM!

quoted 15 lines -

> - > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: component [mailto:component@mindstorm.com] > Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 8:45 AM > To: Chris Henry; idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: Re: [idm] puppy (was: hidden forms 122...) > > > > Puppy's one of the only industrial artists from those days that > > still drops my jaw. Meat Beat Manifesto, too. Nobody's really done

quoted 3 lines it like

> > it like > > > that since. Renegade Soundwave also falls into this category for me,

quoted 25 lines but I wouldn't consider it industrial.

> > but I wouldn't consider it industrial. > > Renegade soundwave is fun stuff. I see them closer to Pop Will Eat > Itself than industrial. > > > Rape and Honey comes close, still can't decide about 242 (too many > > positive associations to be objective). > > Tyranny for You was a pretty amazing CD. The production was ultra > tight. > > I was kinda bummed when they went all murking on Evil Off and the > other one that came out about the same time. I picked up the new 242 > Ep and I REALLY didn't like it. Not sure what's up with that. > > > Can I get a shout out for Severed Heads? > > Umm..... > > > Along these lines, anybody interested in checking out some new > > industrial should listen to Kill Memory Crash on Ghostly. It's the > > first fresh stuff I've heard for a while. Perhaps the beginning of > > a renaissance a la electroclash? Certainly worthy of it... > > Well it could happen we've surely got enough angst to go around...Crap

quoted 17 lines economy, dubya's imperialism....

> economy, dubya's imperialism.... > > > Rob! > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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quoted 7 lines I don't know about the rest of you guys but vocals, dancing and

>I don't know about the rest of you guys but vocals, dancing and >community are the things that excite me these days. I don't need all >three at the same time but I do need at least one. What's on my ipod? >1994, you know, when IDM was the shit! There's such a lack of focus >these days, you can't mix one record with the other because everyone's >off being an egotistical circuit board surfer. When did we all get so >insular and mellow, it makes me feel old.

I have to agree, hardly anything released this year has interested me apart from the new MF Doom album. Recently I've been rediscovering/getting into early AE, Throbbing Gristle, Kraftwerk, Black Dog, Humanoid, Juan Atkins and my word does it sound FRESH compared to most of the stuff released recently. I'm beginning to come to the conclusion that dance/electronic music in general reached it's peak around 15 years ago. Seriously. Combined with a massive decline in posts to this list (eBay listings not withstanding) makes me think that there are less and less good new ideas out there and that the tenuious IDM scene is dead. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Wed, 13 Aug 2003, Glenn McClements wrote:

quoted 2 lines are less and less good new ideas out there and that the tenuious IDM

> are less and less good new ideas out there and that the tenuious IDM > scene is dead.

Funny, I thought the exact opposite after getting back from Mutek. IDM is dead! Long live IDM! w --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 11 lines are less and less good new ideas out there and that the tenuious IDM

> > >>are less and less good new ideas out there and that the tenuious IDM >>scene is dead. >> >> > >Funny, I thought the exact opposite after getting back from Mutek. > >IDM is dead! Long live IDM! >

Must just be me getting old and jaded then :-)

svin said:

quoted 6 lines in the last year more then half of the parties i

> in the last year more then half of the parties i > visited were shot down by cops or other scum > > i know it- > if gestapo tactics to kill dancing music scene > wouldnt exist-

the half dozen shows I've seen over the past year haven't had any police presence. then again, there wasn't much, if any, of a drug presence, either. derek -- eggytoast.com - eggtastic.com ------ it's in your grocer's freezer --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

How has things like Soulseek affected our list/scene/genre???? Maybe we're not really talking much because it is soo easy to get this stuff we move so quickly from one to another not allowing enough time to appreciate them? Just a thought. Glenn McClements <glenn.mcclements@openwave.com> wrote:

quoted 7 lines I don't know about the rest of you guys but vocals, dancing and

>I don't know about the rest of you guys but vocals, dancing and >community are the things that excite me these days. I don't need all >three at the same time but I do need at least one. What's on my ipod? >1994, you know, when IDM was the shit! There's such a lack of focus >these days, you can't mix one record with the other because everyone's >off being an egotistical circuit board surfer. When did we all get so >insular and mellow, it makes me feel old.

I have to agree, hardly anything released this year has interested me apart from the new MF Doom album. Recently I've been rediscovering/getting into early AE, Throbbing Gristle, Kraftwerk, Black Dog, Humanoid, Juan Atkins and my word does it sound FRESH compared to most of the stuff released recently. I'm beginning to come to the conclusion that dance/electronic music in general reached it's peak around 15 years ago. Seriously. Combined with a massive decline in posts to this list (eBay listings not withstanding) makes me think that there are less and less good new ideas out there and that the tenuious IDM scene is dead. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software

Gil Videla said:

quoted 4 lines How has things like Soulseek affected our list/scene/genre????

> How has things like Soulseek affected our list/scene/genre???? > Maybe we're not really talking much because it is soo easy to get this > stuff we move so quickly from one to another not allowing enough time > to appreciate them? Just a thought.

I'm sure that's some of it -- there's definitely more traffic when SoulSeek goes down :D But it also wouldn't surprise me if most of the time the album conversations have moved to real-time chat things like IRC and SoulSeek, since you can supplement reviews with "Here, listen to this track." You can't really do that via email. Another factor is that the names people are used to either aren't making music anymore, or are making music that isn't very good or is drastically different from what they were making before. The good music is, like it was 5-10 years ago, from small artists on small labels without a lot of fanfare. It's still IDM, it's still familiar, and it's still GOOD. It's just not on Warp and it's not by Autechre. derek -- eggytoast.com - eggtastic.com ------ it's in your grocer's freezer --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Right I was thinking that artists like Cim has taken the place of the early IDM/Artificial Intelligence style in a 2000-era flava.... I have to admit, I too have become jaded and dont care for much post 1998... this isn't to say good stuff doesn't come out, but there are a variety of reasons why we don't talk about it on this list and you've pointed to a critical one as well (IMO) EggyToast <eggy@eggtastic.com> wrote: The good music is, like it was 5-10 years ago, from small artists on small labels without a lot of fanfare. It's still IDM, it's still familiar, and it's still GOOD. It's just not on Warp and it's not by Autechre. derek -- eggytoast.com - eggtastic.com ------ it's in your grocer's freezer --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software

quoted 7 lines Rape and Honey comes close, still can't decide about 242 (too many positive

>> Rape and Honey comes close, still can't decide about 242 (too many positive >> associations to be objective). > >Tyranny for You was a pretty amazing CD. The production was ultra tight. >I was kinda bummed when they went all murking on Evil Off and the other >one that came out about the same time. I picked up the new 242 Ep and >I REALLY didn't like it. Not sure what's up with that.

yeah tyranny is amazing ... i still use it for a reference disc when i am trying to get a mix to lay down in the speakers just right ... pop it thru a spectral analyzer sometime if you want to see maximized distribution of frequency bandwidth. that shit is tight. old 242 stuff still packs a dancefloor, especially following that electro revival from last year ... masterhit 12" anyone? put it on +4 and watch the floor go wild -aprox --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I see it more as kids going to shows with the soul intention of doing drugs, or the ones who need the drugs to enjoy themselves as the downfall of the EDM scene. If kids weren't acting so stupid goverment wouldn't be keeping as close of an eye on us as they do. Rich Warchild 781-856-3804 AIM: The DJ Warchild ICQ: 2021032 Affiliations Warchild (http://www.djwarchild.com) Ruffneck Playaz Crew (http://www.ruffneckplayazcrew.com) Airplane Clique (http://www.airplaneclique.da.ru) ----- Original Message ----- From: "svin" <svinrave@yahoo.com> To: "Glenn McClements" <glenn.mcclements@openwave.com>; "Record Camp" <lists@activaire.com>; <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 1:11 PM Subject: [idm] who killed dancing music

quoted 27 lines in the last year more then half of the parties i

> in the last year more then half of the parties i > visited were shot down by cops or other scum > > i know it- > if gestapo tactics to kill dancing music scene > wouldnt exist- > > we'd have sound systems in every single park in > all major, minor and small cities, towns, > whatever is there > producind killowatts of music 24 hours a day > > and all the fools in the world would be out there > partying, dancing and listening > instead of geting porky drunk in front of tv-s > or in shitholes called pubs > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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not really take an idiotic game at the stadion where tens of thousansds of rednecks and other fuckups get filthy drunk and beat eachother over the head to death take any other so called legal entertainment, including watching tv at home- they all are drunk or high in some way you can not compare numbers of people killed by alchohol and tobacco and street violence to number of victims of E, pot, speed, acid and other i guess proportion is like 10000000 to 1. and dont forget the heroin- the only real drug which is a total oposite to any kind of dance related high a while ago someone on NYC raves list put out an article on how cops closed on dancing culture in uk, france and us. in the begining it was so massive, in 10 or even 100 thousands partying people, so everythin was done to stop it recently in some places in us cops used to arrest hundreds and ticket them for like $600 each djs had actually being escorted with the gun to their heads as far as drugs- i know dozens of partygoers, all of my friends, actually,- except smoking pot they do NO OTHER DRUG i believe percentage of party drug users is much less than half of those who go to dance on the other hand a srtaion game has 100% drunk audience and quite a violent one __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

svin said:

quoted 6 lines not really

> not really > > take an idiotic game at the stadion where tens of > thousansds of rednecks and other fuckups get > filthy drunk and beat eachother over the head to > death

There's no law against consuming alcohol. There's laws against giving/serving it to people under the age of 21. Look at all the people flying high on caffeine addiction?

quoted 6 lines as far as drugs-

> > as far as drugs- > > i know dozens of partygoers, all of my friends, > actually,- > except smoking pot they do NO OTHER DRUG

Who cares? Pot's illegal. Do something illegal, don't complain when the cops come. Complain BEFORE the cops come and before you do something illegal. doofus :P get the laws changed, and make a statement before stupid laws get enacted. Don't sit idly by while laws get made and then bitch when you don't like them.-- eggytoast.com - eggtastic.com ------ it's in your grocer's freezer --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

yo didnt get it- establishment ruined the scene NOT because of drugs but because the early signs in the begining of 90s were that the whole cultural paradigma deal is going to shift and a big number of influential people and institutions are going to be left without the money and political influence so called "ravers" were coming out in record numbers in human history compared to any other altenative movement or lifestyle whatever you call it and it was getting more and more public support drugs are only a gimmic to support gestapo actions __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

EggyToast wrote:

quoted 3 lines Who cares? Pot's illegal. Do something illegal, don't complain when the

>Who cares? Pot's illegal. Do something illegal, don't complain when the >cops come. >

Wow EggyToast -- you're a model citizen! What would you have recommended that black South Africans do under apartheid?

quoted 7 lines Complain BEFORE the cops come and before you do something illegal. doofus :P

> >Complain BEFORE the cops come and before you do something illegal. doofus :P > >get the laws changed, and make a statement before stupid laws get enacted. >Don't sit idly by while laws get made and then bitch when you don't like >them.-- >

Unfortunately, try as I might, I just haven't been able to get the laws rewritten as I would like in the locality where I live. What should I do? John

quoted 13 lines eggytoast.com - eggtastic.com

>eggytoast.com - eggtastic.com >------ >it's in your grocer's freezer > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > >

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John von Seggern said:

quoted 9 lines EggyToast wrote:

> EggyToast wrote: > >>Who cares? Pot's illegal. Do something illegal, don't complain when >>the cops come. >> > Wow EggyToast -- you're a model citizen! > > What would you have recommended that black South Africans do under > apartheid?

Revolt.

quoted 12 lines Complain BEFORE the cops come and before you do something illegal.

> >> >>Complain BEFORE the cops come and before you do something illegal. >>doofus :P >> >>get the laws changed, and make a statement before stupid laws get >>enacted. Don't sit idly by while laws get made and then bitch when you >>don't like them.-- >> > Unfortunately, try as I might, I just haven't been able to get the laws > rewritten as I would like in the locality where I live. What should I > do?

Revolt. -- eggytoast.com - eggtastic.com ------ it's in your grocer's freezer --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

you wrote: "If kids weren't acting so stupid goverment wouldn't be keeping as close of an eye on us as they do." yeah, and if people would just stay in line there would be no need for police to step in and beat some sense into them. If all those darn third world countries would just stay happy making Nike shoes for pennies a day there would be no need for the CIA to go sort things out for them. If people would just stay at home, buy frozen dinners,watch T.V. and go to work rather than going out to dance all night,or if people were good christian non-fornicating non-drug using decent folk, there would be none of this freaky pagan muslim terrorist people running around.Maybe if we threw them all in jail it would be much safer in the world. Maybe if we just threw all those dark-skinned freaky people in jail us good decent folk could sleep at night without worrying about some longhaired hippy dancing all night or ripping off our SUV. Because as we all know, marijuana leads to heroin, raves lead to child pornography, and the government has our best intrests in mind. In fact, the more they are able to monitor, control, limit what information we have acess to, the better off we are, the safer our children are from the satanic zombie raver wierdos. I hate these kind of justifications for facism,like its stupid drug doing kids faults. We live in a dangerous world, there is no insurance policy for a broken heart. People get sick, die, get pregnant, have babies, have abortions...people do drugs, people get addicted to drugs, people have life changing amazing experiences on drugs, people dance all night on drugs, people run around with goofy grins hugging complete strangers and gnaw on binkys on drugs, people fall in love, people break each others hearts, people have sex, people have anal sex, people have missionary sex, people have oral sex, people have sex in cars, people have sex in hotel rooms, people have sex for money, people sniff glue, people snort coke, people drink coffee, people smoke weed, football players smoke weed, lawyers smoke weed, midgets smoke weed, musicians smoke all kinds of weed, midgets have sex, football players have sex, lawyers have sex. There are all kinds of ways to have sex, there are all kinds of drugs. In our puritanical country it seems that all drugs are bad illegal etc.. even most ranking arguements for legalization leave out the point that some drugs are really fun, thatit might even be good for some people to take. Thatslike saying all sex is bad, since some wierdo wentand buggered a toddler, so we should outlaw all forms of sex. Just because some stupid shit smokes crack, that hence we shouldnt be able to smoke a bowl and mix records. Of course, dont listen to me, i'm probably some drug crazed sex fiend lunatic satanic dope smoking heathen who is out to dance all night at a secret location out in the desert with a bunch of other crazy pagan dark skinned homo wierdos, I'm probabley one of these malcontent anti-government eco-terrorists. Probabley. --- Rich Warchild <Warchild@DJWarchild.com> wrote:

quoted 52 lines I see it more as kids going to shows with the soul

> I see it more as kids going to shows with the soul > intention of doing drugs, > or the ones who need the drugs to enjoy themselves > as the downfall of the > EDM scene. > > If kids weren't acting so stupid goverment wouldn't > be keeping as close of > an eye on us as they do. > > Rich Warchild 781-856-3804 > AIM: The DJ Warchild ICQ: 2021032 > Affiliations > Warchild (http://www.djwarchild.com) > Ruffneck Playaz Crew > (http://www.ruffneckplayazcrew.com) > Airplane Clique (http://www.airplaneclique.da.ru) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "svin" <svinrave@yahoo.com> > To: "Glenn McClements" > <glenn.mcclements@openwave.com>; "Record Camp" > <lists@activaire.com>; <idm@hyperreal.org> > Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 1:11 PM > Subject: [idm] who killed dancing music > > > > in the last year more then half of the parties i > > visited were shot down by cops or other scum > > > > i know it- > > if gestapo tactics to kill dancing music scene > > wouldnt exist- > > > > we'd have sound systems in every single park in > > all major, minor and small cities, towns, > > whatever is there > > producind killowatts of music 24 hours a day > > > > and all the fools in the world would be out there > > partying, dancing and listening > > instead of geting porky drunk in front of tv-s > > or in shitholes called pubs > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site > design software > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > > > >

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quoted 8 lines To unsubscribe, e-mail:

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quoted 5 lines To unsubscribe, e-mail:

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maybe where you are, we don't have to much sports violence here in the states that i'm aware of, but i could be wrong. Over here though we'll get a venue with 2000 kids and i'd say a good 50% of them are on drugs and fucked up. Thats just from personal experience in my area of the US. It's quite disgusting. Rich Warchild 781-856-3804 AIM: The DJ Warchild ICQ: 2021032 Affiliations Warchild (http://www.djwarchild.com) Ruffneck Playaz Crew (http://www.ruffneckplayazcrew.com) Airplane Clique (http://www.airplaneclique.da.ru) ----- Original Message ----- From: "svin" <svinrave@yahoo.com> To: "Rich Warchild" <Warchild@DJWarchild.com>; "Glenn McClements" <glenn.mcclements@openwave.com>; "Record Camp" <lists@activaire.com>; <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 1:25 PM Subject: Re: [idm] who killed dancing music

quoted 61 lines not really

> not really > > take an idiotic game at the stadion where tens of > thousansds of rednecks and other fuckups get > filthy drunk and beat eachother over the head to > death > > take any other so called legal entertainment, > including watching tv at home- > > they all are drunk or high in some way > > you can not compare numbers of people killed by > alchohol and tobacco and street violence to > number of victims of E, pot, speed, acid and > other > > i guess proportion is like 10000000 to 1. > > and dont forget the heroin- the only real drug > which is a total oposite to any kind of dance > related high > > a while ago someone on NYC raves list put out an > article on how cops closed on dancing culture in > uk, france and us. > > in the begining it was so massive, in 10 or even > 100 thousands partying people, so > everythin was done to stop it > > recently in some places in us cops used to arrest > hundreds and ticket them for like $600 each > > djs had actually being escorted with the gun to > their heads > > as far as drugs- > > i know dozens of partygoers, all of my friends, > actually,- > except smoking pot they do NO OTHER DRUG > > i believe percentage of party drug users is much > less than half of those who go to dance > > on the other hand a srtaion game has 100% drunk > audience and quite a violent one > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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so, and at the same time 10s of millions are vomiting their drinks at home in the toilets violence was not the point music was the point __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Those people also aren't bringing attention to the media and goverment like alot of people on other drugs are. But as you said this is about music, not violence. Where I am we have very little to no "IDM" scene, we have a rave scene. The reason i feel that the drugs and what i mentioned earlier are killing it is because with new goverment regulations and restrictions in my area (New England), this is causing promoters to hire more security, get more permits and follow more laws or else face the chance of getting fined and or persicuted. This causes ticket prices to go up since the performers won't lower thier prices. Due to the increase in ticket prices, attendances at shows has been getting lower causing promoters to loose money (a local promoter just lost roughly $10k at his last event and is debating retiring from throwing events). Promoters loosing money makes them want to quit, and I don't blame them. When they, the promoters, quit theres less show's, less bookings for the performers and less people being exposed to various forms of dance music. When performers have to get real jobs to support themselves (i know alot that live off producing and performing) that gives them less time to dedicate to music and slows down the production and evolution of it. Rich Warchild 781-856-3804 AIM: The DJ Warchild ICQ: 2021032 Affiliations Warchild (http://www.djwarchild.com) Ruffneck Playaz Crew (http://www.ruffneckplayazcrew.com) Airplane Clique (http://www.airplaneclique.da.ru) ----- Original Message ----- From: "svin" <svinrave@yahoo.com> To: "Rich Warchild" <Warchild@DJWarchild.com>; "Glenn McClements" <glenn.mcclements@openwave.com>; "Record Camp" <lists@activaire.com>; <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [idm] who killed dancing music

quoted 18 lines so,

> so, > and at the same time 10s of millions are vomiting > their drinks at home in the toilets > > violence was not the point > > music was the point > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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it took me years to figure out were to go for a nice dancing music in NYC so, the reality is- the best parties are underground, with ticket prices under 10$ or free they are thrown by enthusiasts, who bring some sort of community sound systems and actually some times get permits for it! to find out about those events you have to read certain email subscriptions , etc but it is happening mostly underground and it is a shame also i know that commercial promoters and clubowners gladly help police to close down on underground events NYC commercial megaclubs have the worst possible djs and shity music and crowd matches that fully drugs and shit semi-underground events attract older audience, of more intelectual and artistic kind __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I have to agree with everything you just said.. Those are what i feel are better parties. Rich Warchild 781-856-3804 AIM: The DJ Warchild ICQ: 2021032 Affiliations Warchild (http://www.djwarchild.com) Ruffneck Playaz Crew (http://www.ruffneckplayazcrew.com) Airplane Clique (http://www.airplaneclique.da.ru) ----- Original Message ----- From: "svin" <svinrave@yahoo.com> To: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 2:16 PM Subject: Re: [idm] who killed dancing music

quoted 39 lines it took me years to figure out were to go for a

> it took me years to figure out were to go for a > nice dancing music in NYC > > so, the reality is- > the best parties are underground, with ticket > prices under 10$ or free > > they are thrown by enthusiasts, who bring some > sort of community sound systems and actually some > times get permits for it! > > to find out about those events you have to read > certain email subscriptions , etc > > but it is happening mostly underground > and it is a shame > > also i know that commercial promoters and > clubowners gladly help police to close down on > underground events > > NYC commercial megaclubs have the worst possible > djs and shity music and crowd matches that fully > drugs and shit > > semi-underground events attract older audience, > of more intelectual and artistic kind > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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hmm.....quite a leap in logic there. the problem here seems primarily that a few bad apples have made the whole batch rotten. and of course the belief that drug/alcohol use (or abuse) is a moral problem, which it isnt. additionally drugs are illegal (differing from country to country), that is a fact. you might not like it, or dont agree with it, but it is true nonetheless. laws against drugs are not there to inhibit those who take drugs, they are there to protect those who do not do drugs. has this worked ? it appears not. and it seems that if your email is a cry for tolerance, then you could start by extending the same courtesy you would like extended to you. Chispas De Muerte wrote:

quoted 138 lines you wrote: "If kids weren't acting so stupid goverment

> you wrote: "If kids weren't acting so stupid goverment > wouldn't be keeping as close > of > an eye on us as they do." > yeah, and if people would just stay in line there > would be no need for police to step in and beat some > sense into them. If all those darn third world > countries would just stay happy making Nike shoes for > pennies a day there would be no need for the CIA to go > sort things out for them. If people would just stay at > home, buy frozen dinners,watch T.V. and go to work > rather than going out to dance all night,or if people > were good christian non-fornicating non-drug using > decent folk, there would be none of this freaky pagan > muslim terrorist people running around.Maybe if we > threw them all in jail it would be much safer in the > world. Maybe if we just threw all those dark-skinned > freaky people in jail us good decent folk could sleep > at night without worrying about some longhaired hippy > dancing all night or ripping off our SUV. Because as > we all know, marijuana leads to heroin, raves lead to > child pornography, and the government has our best > intrests in mind. In fact, the more they are able to > monitor, control, limit what information we have acess > to, the better off we are, the safer our children are > from the satanic zombie raver wierdos. > I hate these kind of justifications for facism,like > its stupid drug doing kids faults. We live in a > dangerous world, there is no insurance policy for a > broken heart. People get sick, die, get pregnant, have > babies, have abortions...people do drugs, people get > addicted to drugs, people have life changing amazing > experiences on drugs, people dance all night on drugs, > people run around with goofy grins hugging complete > strangers and gnaw on binkys on drugs, people fall in > love, people break each others hearts, people have > sex, people have anal sex, people have missionary sex, > people have oral sex, people have sex in cars, people > have sex in hotel rooms, people have sex for money, > people sniff glue, people snort coke, people drink > coffee, people smoke weed, football players smoke > weed, lawyers smoke weed, midgets smoke weed, > musicians smoke all kinds of weed, midgets have sex, > football players have sex, lawyers have sex. There are > all kinds of ways to have sex, there are all kinds of > drugs. In our puritanical country it seems that all > drugs are bad illegal etc.. even most ranking > arguements for legalization leave out the point that > some drugs are really fun, thatit might even be good > for some people to take. Thatslike saying all sex is > bad, since some wierdo wentand buggered a toddler, so > we should outlaw all forms of sex. Just because some > stupid shit smokes crack, that hence we shouldnt be > able to smoke a bowl and mix records. Of course, dont > listen to me, i'm probably some drug crazed sex fiend > lunatic satanic dope smoking heathen who is out to > dance all night at a secret location out in the desert > with a bunch of other crazy pagan dark skinned homo > wierdos, I'm probabley one of these malcontent > anti-government eco-terrorists. Probabley. > > --- Rich Warchild <Warchild@DJWarchild.com> wrote: > > I see it more as kids going to shows with the soul > > intention of doing drugs, > > or the ones who need the drugs to enjoy themselves > > as the downfall of the > > EDM scene. > > > > If kids weren't acting so stupid goverment wouldn't > > be keeping as close of > > an eye on us as they do. > > > > Rich Warchild 781-856-3804 > > AIM: The DJ Warchild ICQ: 2021032 > > Affiliations > > Warchild (http://www.djwarchild.com) > > Ruffneck Playaz Crew > > (http://www.ruffneckplayazcrew.com) > > Airplane Clique (http://www.airplaneclique.da.ru) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "svin" <svinrave@yahoo.com> > > To: "Glenn McClements" > > <glenn.mcclements@openwave.com>; "Record Camp" > > <lists@activaire.com>; <idm@hyperreal.org> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 1:11 PM > > Subject: [idm] who killed dancing music > > > > > > > in the last year more then half of the parties i > > > visited were shot down by cops or other scum > > > > > > i know it- > > > if gestapo tactics to kill dancing music scene > > > wouldnt exist- > > > > > > we'd have sound systems in every single park in > > > all major, minor and small cities, towns, > > > whatever is there > > > producind killowatts of music 24 hours a day > > > > > > and all the fools in the world would be out there > > > partying, dancing and listening > > > instead of geting porky drunk in front of tv-s > > > or in shitholes called pubs > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site > > design software > > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > > idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > > idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

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Yep goes the same most places i reckon. me and a friend started putting on shows becuase we wanted to play and that was our only way. since we have done a few parties, we play clubs, warehouses, legal and illegal, we've developed a small comunity thats growing, someone has a generator, someone else has p.a and we all pitch in to set it up. we have been shut down by police b4 but such is the nature of such shows. and like i said we do clubs and other legal venues too, make sure we can pay our artists even if it comes out of our own pockets, (unless its a free warehouse party) and when we do the clubs its still under $10. We both find it heaps of fun and real rewarding for many reasons. And talking about being shut down, we have and with a generator, pa and a mobile phone number, a few acts, you can set up anywhere. so we have been able to relocate and bring the party with us before. I do agree the club scene is a whole different vibe than say an outdoor, warehouse party or something similar. Generally i think thats because the division you get is from those who don't mind shelling out a bit of cash and prefer their staple diets of known events and artists, as to those that aren't willing to spend that kind of cash unless its something special and will take a chance on a night becuase it sounds interesting even if they haven't heard of any of the acts. sheesh i didn't realise how much crap i wrote :) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 11:16:08 -0700 (PDT) To: idm@hyperreal.org From: svin <svinrave@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [idm] who killed dancing music Message-ID: <20030813181608.40201.qmail@web20106.mail.yahoo.com> it took me years to figure out were to go for a nice dancing music in NYC so, the reality is- the best parties are underground, with ticket prices under 10$ or free they are thrown by enthusiasts, who bring some sort of community sound systems and actually some times get permits for it! to find out about those events you have to read certain email subscriptions , etc but it is happening mostly underground and it is a shame also i know that commercial promoters and clubowners gladly help police to close down on underground events NYC commercial megaclubs have the worst possible djs and shity music and crowd matches that fully drugs and shit semi-underground events attract older audience, of more intelectual and art Manifestevil: http://www.freewebs.com/manifestevil/ (download sound, view images etc): http://groups.yahoo.com/group/manifestevil/ Calm Before The Storm: http://www.freewebs.com/calmbforethestorm/ (download sound, news etc): http://groups.yahoo.com/group/calmbeforethestorm/ --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mobile - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile.

quoted 6 lines Generally i think thats because the

> Generally i think thats because the > division you get is from those who don't mind shelling out a bit of > cash and prefer their staple diets of known events and artists, as to > those that aren't willing to spend that kind of cash unless its > something special and will take a chance on a night becuase it sounds > interesting even if they haven't heard of any of the acts.

Hell yeah. Look at the number of people who always go to the same bars, always vacation in the same place, always listen to the same music... it's no wonder that a club interested in money would want to play radio-friendly music that those types of people would be interested in. But since you already have to shop at seedy stores or mailorder most electronic music, it makes sense that you'd need to go out of your way (or DIY) to find a good electronic live show. -- eggytoast.com - eggtastic.com ------ it's in your grocer's freezer --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

you are wrong. scene has been forced to die in the underground by constant violent police raids for more than 10 years. people have been arrested NOT for drug charges but for dj-ing, promoting and other non-drug offenses and a good number of events that somehow remain legal but where good music is heard- show that puplic interes is enourmous take loveparade in berlin or festivals in prague, crimea, spain or india, or even burning man with 20 thousand participants, or DEMF with 2 million as they say here in NYC it is a 6th summer for the ps1 warmup festival- i go there every saturday. i would say during the course of the day they probably get up to 8 or 10 thousand in attendance __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

this thread has been clogging up this list all day, but this is very true. I've heard stories of police intervention in europe, but in America the level of policing is absurd. There's more cops in downtown Orlando per NIGHT than are paid to patrol Dublin, Ireland for a week. - A On Wednesday, August 13, 2003, at 05:14 PM, svin wrote:

quoted 37 lines you are wrong.

> you are wrong. > > scene has been forced to die in the underground > by constant violent police raids for more than 10 > years. people have been arrested NOT for drug > charges but for dj-ing, promoting and other > non-drug offenses > > and a good number of events that somehow remain > legal but where good music is heard- > show that puplic interes is enourmous > > take loveparade in berlin or festivals in prague, > crimea, spain or india, or even burning man with > 20 thousand participants, or DEMF with 2 million > as they say > > here in NYC it is a 6th summer for the ps1 warmup > festival- > i go there every saturday. > > i would say during the course of the day they > probably get up to 8 or 10 thousand in attendance > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

Andrew Jones 514 Wavecrest Dr. Orlando, FL, 32807 407-927-7607 aim: liminal18

svin wrote:

quoted 8 lines you are wrong.

>you are wrong. > >scene has been forced to die in the underground >by constant violent police raids for more than 10 >years. people have been arrested NOT for drug >charges but for dj-ing, promoting and other >non-drug offenses >

This is not only a US issue BTW -- I lived in Hong Kong until a couple years ago, and our scene was really starting to blow up a few years back. More and more local HK people were getting into the scene, we were getting top world DJs every weekend, lots of local people starting to produce tracks, some live electronic bands and indie releases...but then drug crackdown began, police busted countless parties, always checking IDs, searching people, etc., etc., and as far as I can tell it went a long way into dissipating the creative energy that seemed to be building up. Sad. John

quoted 32 lines and a good number of events that somehow remain

> >and a good number of events that somehow remain >legal but where good music is heard- >show that puplic interes is enourmous > >take loveparade in berlin or festivals in prague, >crimea, spain or india, or even burning man with >20 thousand participants, or DEMF with 2 million >as they say > >here in NYC it is a 6th summer for the ps1 warmup >festival- >i go there every saturday. > >i would say during the course of the day they >probably get up to 8 or 10 thousand in attendance > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software >http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > >

-- John von Seggern producer remixer DJ Los Angeles Digital Cutup Lounge <http://www.digitalcutuplounge.us> film and TV scoring with Terra Incognito <http://www.terra-incognito.us> --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

part of the difference in the crowds is not just the venue that attracts but the people themselves... Those who are a little more "hardcore" (if you will) are willing to deal with the burdens of warehouse/outdoor parties. I remember talking to Pole (what's his name)years ago and he couldn't believe that we (in So Cal) would drive 3-4hours out to the dessert for a party. Other folx just wanna get to the nearest drink and the closest popular place - a downtown club. It's all about the location - convenience factor too!!! I'm a sportsfan but I don't go to the trendiest sports bar in town, I go to the closest one with the cheapest beer, dig? I think this is a big factor that should be considered in addition to the typical ones like: police, promoters, drugs, etc. <manifest_evil@yahoo.com.au> wrote: Yep goes the same most places i reckon. me and a friend started putting on shows becuase we wanted to play and that was our only way. since we have done a few parties, we play clubs, warehouses, legal and illegal, we've developed a small comunity thats growing, someone has a generator, someone else has p.a and we all pitch in to set it up. we have been shut down by police b4 but such is the nature of such shows. and like i said we do clubs and other legal venues too, make sure we can pay our artists even if it comes out of our own pockets, (unless its a free warehouse party) and when we do the clubs its still under $10. We both find it heaps of fun and real rewarding for many reasons. And talking about being shut down, we have and with a generator, pa and a mobile phone number, a few acts, you can set up anywhere. so we have been able to relocate and bring the party with us before. I do agree the club scene is a whole different vibe than say an outdoor, warehouse party or something similar. Generally i think thats because the division you get is from those who don't mind shelling out a bit of cash and prefer their staple diets of known events and artists, as to those that aren't willing to spend that kind of cash unless its something special and will take a chance on a night becuase it sounds interesting even if they haven't heard of any of the acts. sheesh i didn't realise how much crap i wrote :) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 11:16:08 -0700 (PDT) To: idm@hyperreal.org From: svin Subject: Re: [idm] who killed dancing music Message-ID: <20030813181608.40201.qmail@web20106.mail.yahoo.com> it took me years to figure out were to go for a nice dancing music in NYC so, the reality is- the best parties are underground, with ticket prices under 10$ or free they are thrown by enthusiasts, who bring some sort of community sound systems and actually some times get permits for it! to find out about those events you have to read certain email subscriptions , etc but it is happening mostly underground and it is a shame also i know that commercial promoters and clubowners gladly help police to close down on underground events NYC commercial megaclubs have the worst possible djs and shity music and crowd matches that fully drugs and shit semi-underground events attract older audience, of more intelectual and art Manifestevil: http://www.freewebs.com/manifestevil/ (download sound, view images etc): http://groups.yahoo.com/group/manifestevil/ Calm Before The Storm: http://www.freewebs.com/calmbforethestorm/ (download sound, news etc): http://groups.yahoo.com/group/calmbeforethestorm/ --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mobile - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software

definately, i agree. its a whole different crowd. and location does play a big part yes. its a shame that we can't bridge the gap but i think it will allways be like that, due to these facts and also in regards to price, free parties and those that are cheaper seems to cheapen an event (not in a bad way) to those that would prefer to pay $30 to get into some club. You could charge a bit and risk losing punters that won't spend that money, so we do both. Gil Videla <mvidelag@yahoo.com> wrote: part of the difference in the crowds is not just the venue that attracts but the people themselves... Those who are a little more "hardcore" (if you will) are willing to deal with the burdens of warehouse/outdoor parties. I remember talking to Pole (what's his name)years ago and he couldn't believe that we (in So Cal) would drive 3-4hours out to the dessert for a party. Other folx just wanna get to the nearest drink and the closest popular place - a downtown club. It's all about the location - convenience factor too!!! I'm a sportsfan but I don't go to the trendiest sports bar in town, I go to the closest one with the cheapest beer, dig? I think this is a big factor that should be considered in addition to the typical ones like: police, promoters, drugs, etc. <manifest_evil@yahoo.com.au> wrote: Yep goes the same most places i reckon. me and a friend started putting on shows becuase we wanted to play and that was our only way. since we have done a few parties, we play clubs, warehouses, legal and illegal, we've developed a small comunity thats growing, someone has a generator, someone else has p.a and we all pitch in to set it up. we have been shut down by police b4 but such is the nature of such shows. and like i said we do clubs and other legal venues too, make sure we can pay our artists even if it comes out of our own pockets, (unless its a free warehouse party) and when we do the clubs its still under $10. We both find it heaps of fun and real rewarding for many reasons. And talking about being shut down, we have and with a generator, pa and a mobile phone number, a few acts, you can set up anywhere. so we have been able to relocate and bring the party with us before. I do agree the club scene is a whole different vibe than say an outdoor, warehouse party or something similar. Generally i think thats because the division you get is from those who don't mind shelling out a bit of cash and prefer their staple diets of known events and artists, as to those that aren't willing to spend that kind of cash unless its something special and will take a chance on a night becuase it sounds interesting even if they haven't heard of any of the acts. sheesh i didn't realise how much crap i wrote :) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 11:16:08 -0700 (PDT) To: idm@hyperreal.org From: svin Subject: Re: [idm] who killed dancing music Message-ID: <20030813181608.40201.qmail@web20106.mail.yahoo.com> it took me years to figure out were to go for a nice dancing music in NYC so, the reality is- the best parties are underground, with ticket prices under 10$ or free they are thrown by enthusiasts, who bring some sort of community sound systems and actually some times get permits for it! to find out about those events you have to read certain email subscriptions , etc but it is happening mostly underground and it is a shame also i know that commercial promoters and clubowners gladly help police to close down on underground events NYC commercial megaclubs have the worst possible djs and shity music and crowd matches that fully drugs and shit semi-underground events attract older audience, of more intelectual and art Manifestevil: http://www.freewebs.com/manifestevil/ (download sound, view images etc): http://groups.yahoo.com/group/manifestevil/ Calm Before The Storm: http://www.freewebs.com/calmbforethestorm/ (download sound, news etc): http://groups.yahoo.com/group/calmbeforethestorm/ --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mobile - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mobile - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile.

So I guess people actually dance to idm music? --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 3 lines But since you already have to shop at seedy stores or mailorder most

>But since you already have to shop at seedy stores or mailorder most >electronic music, it makes sense that you'd need to go out of your way (or >DIY) to find a good electronic live show.

Not to mention it usualy ends up in a tighter-knit more personal community....which I something I really missed when rave became commercial. House parties por vida! zach _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 1 line So I guess people actually dance to idm music?

>So I guess people actually dance to idm music?

I kinda jerk around to it. ROFL (ok so it was just a little smile, but inside my head...oh inside my head) zach _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org