IDM Mailing Archive

Guillaume Grenier wrote:

quoted 8 lines Autechre (just using them as an example) are relevant to our

> > Autechre (just using them as an example) are relevant to our > contemporary > > situation in a way that Beethoven isn't...at least that's my > opinion. > > I'd be truly interested in hearing you develop that opinion, if > possible. > (No sarcasm whatsoever is intended.)

I think the McLuhan quotes in my other email address this...his point is that new media function as extensions of man, extensions of our sense organs, and that such extensions change the way we think. I know the way I think has been thoroughly reconfigured by my encounter with the Net, how about you? Some writers in cultural studies theorize the human/computer interface as a cyborg system already -- when I work on music, for example, I am so comfortable with using Digital Performer that it has become like an extension of my brain. I conceptualize about how to work with the music using terms and concepts from the software. I think many of us already relate to the Internet this way -- it's like a giant memory extension that anyone can tap into if they know how. Almost feels like having a bionic brain sometimes... Autechre's music is tracing out stories of how to live in such a world and deal with such experiences. Beethoven's is not. This doesn't mean that Beethoven's music is totally without relevance -- some aspects of human experience do seem to be timeless. But he doesn't speak to our contemporary situation in the same way as Autechre. Personally, I prefer Autechre. In the same way, Howlin' Wolf in his heyday probably had a relevance to poor black Americans that we can hardly appreciate now, he was addressing his own contemporary situation. Does that make sense? Incidentally, I have started doing some digitally deconstructed remixes of a few classical pieces recently...almost finished with Barber's 'Adagio for Strings', I'll post a note after I've uploaded it to our website. John -- John von Seggern DJ/producer Digital Cutup Lounge Hong Kong http://www.digitalcutuplounge.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On 21/05/01 20:03, Digital Cutup Lounge said in living color:

quoted 12 lines Guillaume Grenier wrote:

> Guillaume Grenier wrote: > >>> Autechre (just using them as an example) are relevant to our contemporary >>> situation in a way that Beethoven isn't...at least that's my opinion. >> >> I'd be truly interested in hearing you develop that opinion, if >> possible. >> (No sarcasm whatsoever is intended.) > > I think the McLuhan quotes in my other email address this...his point is > that new media function as extensions of man, extensions of our sense > organs, and that such extensions change the way we think.

No argument here.

quoted 2 lines I know the way I think has been thoroughly reconfigured by my encounter

> I know the way I think has been thoroughly reconfigured by my encounter > with the Net, how about you?

I would tend to say so, yes.

quoted 9 lines Some writers in cultural studies theorize the human/computer interface

> Some writers in cultural studies theorize the human/computer interface > as a cyborg system already -- when I work on music, for example, I am so > comfortable with using Digital Performer that it has become like an > extension of my brain. I conceptualize about how to work with the music > using terms and concepts from the software. > > I think many of us already relate to the Internet this way -- it's like > a giant memory extension that anyone can tap into if they know how. > Almost feels like having a bionic brain sometimes...

Two nice examples of the concepts expressed in the first paragraph of your message.

quoted 2 lines Autechre's music is tracing out stories of how to live in such a world

> Autechre's music is tracing out stories of how to live in such a world > and deal with such experiences. Beethoven's is not.

1. It's the second time you refer to music as something that instructs us on "how to live" and "deal with experiences". I must admit this intrigues me a bit... I wonder how the music would do such things... "Hi kids! This is Sock Puppet Autechre, and today he's going to tell you why cool kids say NO to drugs!" Joking aside, this concept is truly foreign to me. But, of course, music serves widely different purposes for each of us (and those purposes vary greatly depending on the circumstances in which we listen to it, the very music we choose to hear/play, etc., etc., blah, blah...) SO what can I say...? Only that music does not fulfill such a "didactic" role in my case. 2. OK, now a reminder: we're trying to establish objectively how Autechre's music is more relevant to today's listeners than Beethoven's. So what needs to be done in order to establish objectively that Autechre's music is more relevant to today's listeners than Beethovens? First, we'd need some way to calculate relevancy. But, wait, how do we do that? Gosh, could it be possible that universal relevancy is a quality that can't be measured, that can't be applied to music as it can be applied to, say, medical procedures on a patient who suffered a heart attack. I don't think that "Autechre's music is tracing out stories of how to live in such a world and deal with such experiences. Beethoven's is not." is an irrefutable proof of Autechre's music's contemporary relevance. I'd say it's a characterization of how Autechre's music has a deeper impact on John von Seggern than Beethoven's.

quoted 4 lines This doesn't mean that Beethoven's music is totally without relevance --

> This doesn't mean that Beethoven's music is totally without relevance -- > some aspects of human experience do seem to be timeless. > But he doesn't speak to our contemporary situation in the same way as > Autechre.

To retain the original matter at discussion, "the same way" should be replaced by a "as relevantly" (if that word even exists...). What I object to is the word "our" (in the revised sentence). g. -- Guillaume Grenier - gollum@videotron.ca in space there is no north in space there is no south in space there is no east in space there is no west --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

At 08:03 AM 5/22/01 +0800, you wrote:

quoted 2 lines Autechre's music is tracing out stories of how to live in such a world and

>Autechre's music is tracing out stories of how to live in such a world and >deal with such experiences.

Maybe I'm unable to read Autechre's music as well as you, but I don't see that this is true at all. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Myroslaw Bytz wrote:

quoted 9 lines I think many of us already relate to the Internet this way -- it's like

> > I think many of us already relate to the Internet this way -- it's like > > a giant memory extension that anyone can tap into if they know how. > > Almost feels like having a bionic brain sometimes... > > great point. the computer is not only a memory extension, but also a mirror > on which your own thoughts are reflected back to you, in different and > abstractly concrete ways (huh?:). this, i think is the reason that humans > and their consciousness have been and will be going through changes such as > have never been seen before.

I agree. Some people will always argue that 'nothing is new under the sun', that humans have always been/will always be the same, etc., but I think technology does change things in fundamental ways.

quoted 5 lines we don't know what these changes will pan out

> we don't know what these changes will pan out > to be, but we are in that crucial stage of scrambling to find new > expressions of all types to help define (or decompose) our thoughts, > processes, experiences, et cetera. vladislav delay is a prime example of > that to me.

That's what I mean. Check out this quote from Boy's Own fanzine (late 80s UK acid house scene), we've had it on our homepage for awhile: -- …consider it another way. How does music work? by a statement of what it’s not. The structure of sound operates through a continual state of change, it describes an abstraction for emotion, for perception, within its own architecture. The changes need not be immense ? a new fall of light, the sweep of a glance ? but it’s enough. What does this actually achieve? on the most mundane level, it gives a language, devoid of the act of compromise that verbal mediation essentially is, to peoples experiences. It allows a moment to catelogue and accept the seen through means of the unseen. The Cheap technology with which house records could be made created, as did punk, an entire breed of non-musicians, ready, through an extensive process of trial and error, to fit a soundtrack for their particular world. Much of this was haphazard, but the fact that there existed an experimental platform was of fundamental importance. Although these new producers/non-musicians/creators had not attended conservatoires or studied composition, and are therefore unable to give anything other than a limited theoretical explanation of their work, this in no way lessens their significance. [author unknown] --

quoted 2 lines autechre is an example as well, but i have a feeling even they

> autechre is an example as well, but i have a feeling even they > will soon become outdated.

You're probably right -- I think that is an indication of just how fast everything is changing right now. Autechre are experimenting with the possibilities of new software, but next year they'll have even more powerful computers and software and so on...

quoted 3 lines HOWEVER... the largest and most vital mistake that can be made is totally

> HOWEVER... the largest and most vital mistake that can be made is totally > discarding older musics as entirely irrelevant. after all, everything is a > chain.

I totally agree. When I DJ, I try to play a mixture of fresh electronic beats together with scraps and pieces of music from the past that still sounds good to me...Miles Davis, Shiv Kumar Sharma, Grandmaster Flash, Bach, anything goes. (I love playing in DJ bars where you can get away with such an eclectic selection...) The trick is finding old music that still sounds contemporary, it's like magic. Stephen (the other laptop DJ I work with) has recently been playing a lot of early Throbbing Gristle tracks, that stuff still sounds so fresh to me... John -- John von Seggern DJ/producer Digital Cutup Lounge Hong Kong http://www.digitalcutuplounge.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Guillaume Grenier wrote:

quoted 6 lines Autechre's music is tracing out stories of how to live in such a world

> > Autechre's music is tracing out stories of how to live in such a world > > and deal with such experiences. Beethoven's is not. > > 1. It's the second time you refer to music as something that instructs us on > "how to live" and "deal with experiences". I must admit this intrigues me a > bit... I wonder how the music would do such things...

Check out the quote from Boy's Own fanzine I sent in my other email... I think of it like this: music provides us with new concepts and ideas with which to think about things. The experience of performing/listening music also has a lot of social meaning, I think -- it has been argued, for example, that live music events model and affirm the social relationships which their audiences hold important. (From this point of view an orchestra concert might be held to exemplify authoritarian elitism, a social ritual of the ruling class, but that's another topic...) It is important to realize that these concepts don't have to be verbal -- in fact, in this way I think that music provides us with ways to understand our world that language is incapable of comprehending, this is perhaps one of the reasons that people value music so much. To be more specific, just for one example, it has been argued that the FX and transformations possible in digital music allow us to create the sonic images of new imaginary spaces which have never existed in reality, perhaps presaging the kind of mental adjustments we will need to function effectively in future virtual reality environments. Analogies could be drawn to the digitization of biology (the Human Genome Project) and physical reality itself (nanotechnology). A good book on this future musical reality tangent is More Brilliant Than The Sun by UK music critic Kodwo Eshun, he covers what he calls 'Afro-futurist' music from Sun Ra through Miles Davis, George Clinton, Grandmaster Flash, Goldie and beyond.

quoted 2 lines 2. OK, now a reminder: we're trying to establish objectively how Autechre's

> 2. OK, now a reminder: we're trying to establish objectively how Autechre's > music is more relevant to today's listeners than Beethoven's.

That's not what I was trying to do...I don't think it is possible to establish things like that 'objectively'. All I can do is tell you who I am and how it sounds to me...if my interpretation has no resonance with you that's OK too.

quoted 5 lines I don't think that "Autechre's music is tracing out stories of how to live

> I don't think that "Autechre's music is tracing out stories of how to live > in such a world and deal with such experiences. Beethoven's is not." is an > irrefutable proof of Autechre's music's contemporary relevance. I'd say it's > a characterization of how Autechre's music has a deeper impact on John von > Seggern than Beethoven's.

I'm happy with that. -- John von Seggern DJ/producer Digital Cutup Lounge Hong Kong http://www.digitalcutuplounge.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org