IDM Mailing Archive

Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 19:16:30 -0700 (PDT) To: swamay <swamay@home.com>, Josh Bown <josh@undertone.com>, idm@hyperreal.org From: Lander <gamera_@yahoo.com> Cc: aschrock@cs.brandeis.edu Subject: Re: [idm] Re: What do you expect from IDM musicians on stage? Message-ID: <20010411021630.79122.qmail@web11107.mail.yahoo.com> --- swamay <swamay@home.com> wrote:

quoted 5 lines If you're not using technology developed within the last 6 months,

> > If you're not using technology developed within the last 6 months, >you're > > a reflection of the past. Please, if you have a serious dedication >towards > > forwarding electronic music technology, don't use any synthesizers

or

quoted 8 lines samplers.

> > samplers. > > >I agree with that statement. Be an innovator. Either way have fun >though! > > >~swamay~

You must want artists to release 2 albums a year both using different technology for each project!!! Where's the learning curve factored into this? So once the album is over 6 months old its not relevant any more because the technology is "old"!!! and how does one compose music that is electronic without synths or samplers? Where do you source your sounds? How do you store your sound? Paul Chillage _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I think the first guy was joking, and then the next guy actually believed him and agreed.... Just pity him if it helps..... This email was sent by someone who thinks some music written hundreds of years ago is still some of the most innovative ever written and always will be. the only problem with being on the cutting edge is that you frequently get your head chopped off by it. Paul Chillage wrote:

quoted 12 lines You must want artists to release 2 albums a year both using different

> You must want artists to release 2 albums a year both using different > technology for each project!!! > Where's the learning curve factored into this? > So once the album is over 6 months old its not relevant any more because the > technology is "old"!!! > > and how does one compose music that is electronic without synths or > samplers? > Where do you source your sounds? > How do you store your sound? > > Paul Chillage

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quoted 7 lines If you're not using technology developed within the last 6 months,

> > > If you're not using technology developed within the last 6 months, > >you're > > > a reflection of the past. Please, if you have a serious dedication > >towards > > > forwarding electronic music technology, don't use any synthesizers > or > > > samplers.

We both meant "hardware" synths and samplers. We use DSP or a hybrid of hard/software. using an ASR-10 or a KORG keyboard is a bit overreated. they dont do much anymore. We make "samplers" or "synths" on the computer now a days.

quoted 1 line So once the album is over 6 months old its not relevant any more because

>So once the album is over 6 months old its not relevant any more because

the

quoted 1 line technology is "old"!!!

> technology is "old"!!!

No an album made in the past 6 months does not get dissed. But using the "standard" off the shelf gear to make that album does. Thats what i mean by be an innovator. But course there are those musicians that will always use the same old gear, because that is what they are comfortable with, and have no desire to move forward with new gear. And also dont want to go throught the learning curve. I think most musicians have made a rep with the gear they have, and fear rejection if their style changes in the slightest, due to new unfamiliar gear they are using. regards.. ~swamay~ www.mp3.com/swamay www.swamay.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Chillage" <paulchillage@hotmail.com> To: <swamay@home.com>; <josh@undertone.com>; <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 12:02 PM Subject: [idm] last 6 months rule

quoted 28 lines Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 19:16:30 -0700 (PDT)

> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 19:16:30 -0700 (PDT) > To: swamay <swamay@home.com>, Josh Bown <josh@undertone.com>, > idm@hyperreal.org > From: Lander <gamera_@yahoo.com> > Cc: aschrock@cs.brandeis.edu > Subject: Re: [idm] Re: What do you expect from IDM musicians on stage? > Message-ID: <20010411021630.79122.qmail@web11107.mail.yahoo.com> > > --- swamay <swamay@home.com> wrote: > > > If you're not using technology developed within the last 6 months, > >you're > > > a reflection of the past. Please, if you have a serious dedication > >towards > > > forwarding electronic music technology, don't use any synthesizers > or > > > samplers. > > > > > >I agree with that statement. Be an innovator. Either way have fun > >though! > > > > > >~swamay~ > > You must want artists to release 2 albums a year both using different > technology for each project!!! > Where's the learning curve factored into this? > So once the album is over 6 months old its not relevant any more because

the

quoted 18 lines technology is "old"!!!

> technology is "old"!!! > > and how does one compose music that is electronic without synths or > samplers? > Where do you source your sounds? > How do you store your sound? > > Paul Chillage > > > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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swamay said...

quoted 6 lines No an album made in the past 6 months does not get dissed. But using the

> No an album made in the past 6 months does not get dissed. But using the > "standard" off the shelf gear to make that album does. Thats what i mean > by be an innovator. But course there are those musicians that will always > use the same old gear, because that is what they are comfortable with, and > have no desire to move forward with new gear. And also dont want to go > throught the learning curve.

First off, I dont actually use any gear myself (just software), but I must say... what a load of bollox. I doesn't matter even a teeny weeny tiny small inkling of a bit what was used to make the music, just as long as it sounds good. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

comments inline below: swamay wrote:

quoted 14 lines If you're not using technology developed within the last 6 months,

> > > > > If you're not using technology developed within the last 6 months, > > >you're > > > > a reflection of the past. Please, if you have a serious dedication > > >towards > > > > forwarding electronic music technology, don't use any synthesizers > > or > > > > samplers. > > We both meant "hardware" synths and samplers. We use DSP or a hybrid of > hard/software. > using an ASR-10 or a KORG keyboard is a bit overreated. they dont do much > anymore. > We make "samplers" or "synths" on the computer now a days.

who wants to lug a computer to a gig???? also, I like knobs!!!! the simpler the better... who needs more than a few waveforms, a couple envelopes and a couple of LFOs???? WHY????? Have you ever considered that maybe the problem isn't that you don't have enough new gadgets, but that you just lack talent???? New sound and gadget obsession is not a sign of musical innovation, it is a sign of boredom and boringness and means you are probably just a sound designer who wishes he was a musician. SOund designers get paid big bucks in hollywood to do special effects in sci-fi movies... Why not go get a job in hollywood and you will be more successful than 99.99% of all musicians out there....

quoted 8 lines So once the album is over 6 months old its not relevant any more because

> > >So once the album is over 6 months old its not relevant any more because > the > > technology is "old"!!! > > No an album made in the past 6 months does not get dissed. But using the > "standard" off the shelf gear to make that album does. > Thats what i mean by be an innovator.

ok so before you have even heard my album, the fact that I am using a Nord, my guitar, a sampler and some effects already eliminates it from consideration? man.... WOW you are just too much!

quoted 4 lines But course there are those musicians that will always use the same old gear,

> But course there are those musicians that will always use the same old gear, > because that is what they are comfortable with, and have no desire to move > forward with new gear. And also dont want to go throught the learning > curve.

or because the fall in love with a particular instrument and it always goes beyond their wildest dreams in satisfying their needs and they have no reason to look elsewhere?

quoted 4 lines I think most musicians have made a rep with the gear they have, and fear

> > I think most musicians have made a rep with the gear they have, and fear > rejection if their style changes in the slightest, due to new unfamiliar > gear they are using.

I think you must be smoking crack. Most musicians with any integrity care not one iota about their "rep" and will use whatever tools are necessary to accomplish the task at hand.... If you need a piano sound, use a piano. If you need a rhodes keyboard sound, use one of those, if you need a psychedelic synth sound, what's wrong with a Nord or even an old MOOG or something? no hard feelings man, I just think you have a very unique taste or that your style and taste is maybe going through a phase that I think we have all been through where you focus on originality at all costs. In other words, originality is all that matters, so just because no one else has done it before or it's new makes it great... Well, I went through that phase and then I realized that nothing is really ever new anyway, we all recycle our influences, and originality is great, but only when combined with quality, which implies the ability to communicate emotions and ideas through music, some of which are timeless and old and others are new... you have to be able to combine all of the forces together to achieve greatness... in my humble opinion..... --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Simpler the better eh? not for me. i like options. dont like to conform to what i have been given. there is always more out there. <<who needs more than a

quoted 1 line few waveforms,

> few waveforms,

ME <<a couple envelopes and a couple of LFOs???? ME << WHY????? so i can make more interesting music.

quoted 1 line ? who wants to lug a computer to a gig????

>>? who wants to lug a computer to a gig????

ME

quoted 2 lines Have you ever considered that maybe the problem isn't that you don't

> Have you ever considered that maybe the problem isn't that you don't > have enough new gadgets, but that you just lack talent????

Yes i sold all my gadgets to get a computer system, I oooze talent.. and KNOW that. :) <<> New sound and gadget obsession is not a sign of musical innovation, it

quoted 5 lines is a sign of boredom and boringness and means you are probably just a

> is a sign of boredom and boringness and means you are probably just a > sound designer who wishes he was a musician. SOund designers get paid > big bucks in hollywood to do special effects in sci-fi movies... Why not > go get a job in hollywood and you will be more successful than 99.99% of > all musicians out there....

hahaha... I DO! :) that is why i bought KYMA in the first place :) <<> ok so before you have even heard my album, the fact that I am using a

quoted 2 lines Nord, my guitar, a sampler and some effects already eliminates it from

> Nord, my guitar, a sampler and some effects already eliminates it from > consideration? man.... WOW you are just too much!>>

No, I dont like guitars. Where can i hear your album...I will listen to it gladly. :) <<> or because the fall in love with a particular instrument and it always

quoted 2 lines goes beyond their wildest dreams in satisfying their needs and they have

> goes beyond their wildest dreams in satisfying their needs and they have > no reason to look elsewhere?>>

more power to ya. :) But i would be surprised if ANY peice of gear satisfied anyones need to where they dont have to look elsewhere. not even DSP systems (which are more advanced than anything else in the market) go beyond my wildest dreams. If a sampler and a few synths will go beyond your wildest dreams, then you are one LUCKY electronic musician. and you will save TONS of money over your carreer. <<Well, I went through that

quoted 6 lines phase and then I realized that nothing is really ever new anyway, we all

> phase and then I realized that nothing is really ever new anyway, we all > recycle our influences, and originality is great, but only when combined > with quality, which implies the ability to communicate emotions and > ideas through music, some of which are timeless and old and others are > new... you have to be able to combine all of the forces together to > achieve greatness...>>

Jesus! do you even know what a KYMA does???? or beyond that, have you used one?? So you know what it can do to your influences, your recylcled influences. Im happy with this "phase" im going thru. This "phase" allows me to do things with my equipment you C AN NOT do with any other peice of gear. I feel that anyone can make electronic music. my mother has given it a shot and she listens to jazz. But to be an innovator you must stay on top of technology and break barriers that no one else is. That is my hope with DSP systems. And am sure this is why Atom Heart/Autechre/Low Rez and others buy these systems, to get unique sounds, and to give them flexibility they did not have with conventional gear. Take it easy. ~swamay~ www.mp3.com/swamay www.swamay.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Bown" <josh@undertone.com> To: "swamay" <swamay@home.com> Cc: "Paul Chillage" <paulchillage@hotmail.com>; <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 12:56 PM Subject: Re: [idm] last 6 months rule

quoted 13 lines comments inline below:

> comments inline below: > > swamay wrote: > > > > > > > If you're not using technology developed within the last 6 months, > > > >you're > > > > > a reflection of the past. Please, if you have a serious dedication > > > >towards > > > > > forwarding electronic music technology, don't use any synthesizers > > > or > > > > > samplers. > > > > We both meant "hardware" synths and samplers. We use DSP or a hybrid

of

quoted 2 lines hard/software.

> > hard/software. > > using an ASR-10 or a KORG keyboard is a bit overreated. they dont do

much

quoted 19 lines anymore.

> > anymore. > > We make "samplers" or "synths" on the computer now a days. > > who wants to lug a computer to a gig???? > > also, I like knobs!!!! the simpler the better... who needs more than a > few waveforms, a couple envelopes and a couple of LFOs???? WHY????? > Have you ever considered that maybe the problem isn't that you don't > have enough new gadgets, but that you just lack talent???? > > New sound and gadget obsession is not a sign of musical innovation, it > is a sign of boredom and boringness and means you are probably just a > sound designer who wishes he was a musician. SOund designers get paid > big bucks in hollywood to do special effects in sci-fi movies... Why not > go get a job in hollywood and you will be more successful than 99.99% of > all musicians out there.... > > > > > >So once the album is over 6 months old its not relevant any more

because

quoted 4 lines the

> > the > > > technology is "old"!!! > > > > No an album made in the past 6 months does not get dissed. But using

the

quoted 8 lines "standard" off the shelf gear to make that album does.

> > "standard" off the shelf gear to make that album does. > > Thats what i mean by be an innovator. > > ok so before you have even heard my album, the fact that I am using a > Nord, my guitar, a sampler and some effects already eliminates it from > consideration? man.... WOW you are just too much! > > > But course there are those musicians that will always use the same old

gear,

quoted 1 line because that is what they are comfortable with, and have no desire to

> > because that is what they are comfortable with, and have no desire to

move

quoted 32 lines forward with new gear. And also dont want to go throught the learning

> > forward with new gear. And also dont want to go throught the learning > > curve. > > or because the fall in love with a particular instrument and it always > goes beyond their wildest dreams in satisfying their needs and they have > no reason to look elsewhere? > > > > > I think most musicians have made a rep with the gear they have, and fear > > rejection if their style changes in the slightest, due to new unfamiliar > > gear they are using. > > I think you must be smoking crack. Most musicians with any integrity > care not one iota about their "rep" and will use whatever tools are > necessary to accomplish the task at hand.... If you need a piano sound, > use a piano. If you need a rhodes keyboard sound, use one of those, if > you need a psychedelic synth sound, what's wrong with a Nord or even an > old MOOG or something? > > no hard feelings man, I just think you have a very unique taste or that > your style and taste is maybe going through a phase that I think we have > all been through where you focus on originality at all costs. In other > words, originality is all that matters, so just because no one else has > done it before or it's new makes it great... Well, I went through that > phase and then I realized that nothing is really ever new anyway, we all > recycle our influences, and originality is great, but only when combined > with quality, which implies the ability to communicate emotions and > ideas through music, some of which are timeless and old and others are > new... you have to be able to combine all of the forces together to > achieve greatness... > > in my humble opinion.....

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Hey Josh. I use logic too and cubase, and vst plugs. I have the DSP stuff to MAKE synths and samplers and all that good stuff. Reaktor is good for what it does, and will definatley give you great sounds. I really have not listened to My bloody valentine or the others mentioned. I have been into "pure" electronic music my whole life. The sound of acoustic instruments just bugs me. I have heard it all before.. Elvis, BB king, the ramones, eric clapton..its all the same. acoustic music using the same oscillators: guitar, drums, bass, vocals. But i think what these bands you mentioned are doing is processing thier live instruments thru electronics, which i think is great! :) a freind of mine in canada does that, he has a guitar, talkbox, and TONS of effects. he plays the guitar and it sounds nothing like a guitar. That i think is cool. I know im a bit of a purist when it comes to electronic music, and am sort of prejudiced against "standard" instruments. I will be the same guy bitching about my everyone using a Kyma or DSP system, and them not using the newest and latest thing. :) I just want to spark ideas and provoke repsonses from those that defend "standard" instruments. In a good way i hope. but of course when you talk about someones studio (which they spent time and money investing in) feathers tend to get ruffled. :) take it easy! ~swamay~ www.mp3.com/swamay www.swamay.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Bown" <josh@undertone.com> To: "swamay" <swamay@home.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 4:00 PM Subject: Re: [idm] last 6 months rule

quoted 19 lines I just have what I have now and I don't want to sell any of it and I

> I just have what I have now and I don't want to sell any of it and I > don't have time to learn anything new right now... > > I get by with my nord and my mac my logic audio, EXS24 sampler, VST > plugs and my lexicon mpx1 > > I may be getting reaktor soon for when I need wacked out sci-fi action > > most stuff I am doing lately is layered guitar stuff with lots of > effects... > > just tell me, have you really listened to bands like My Bloody Valentine > and the various experimental rock offshoots? > > did you check out southpacific? > > swamay wrote: > > > > you dont have to be rich, I sure am not rich. just save up for one

like

quoted 1 line everyone else. Correct me if im wrong, but wouldnt it cost as much as

> > everyone else. Correct me if im wrong, but wouldnt it cost as much as

any

quoted 29 lines hardware studio setup??

> > hardware studio setup?? > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Josh Bown" <josh@undertone.com> > > To: "swamay" <swamay@home.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 3:50 PM > > Subject: Re: [idm] last 6 months rule > > > > > well hey... if I were rich, I would probably buy one, and fly you out > > > and pay you to teach me how to use it.... > > > > > > swamay wrote: > > > > > > > > Where do i start... > > > > > > > > well a standard one has 4ghz of processing power dedicated to sound. > > > > you can make multitrack hard disk recording systems. > > > > you can make effects. > > > > you can make a 600 band vocoder. > > > > almost no latency. > > > > spectral analysis. > > > > morphing between any 2 sounds. > > > > design your own controls. > > > > spectrum editing > > > > dedicated digital and analog ins and outs > > > > > > > > These are just simple, basic things. > > > > > > > > I could SERIOUSLY go on for an hour. Kyma and Reaktor are 2

different

quoted 3 lines animals. they do "similar" things, but KYMA is a 1000 times more

> > > > animals. they do "similar" things, but KYMA is a 1000 times more > > powerful > > > > and flexible. Reaktor is an inexpensive, basic modular software

synth.

quoted 21 lines Kyma

> > Kyma > > > > is a professional powerhouse for sound design and module design. > > > > Its really not even fair to compare them. But i tried. :) > > > > > > > > take it easy. > > > > > > > > ~swamay~ > > > > > > > > www.mp3.com/swamay > > > > www.swamay.com > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Josh Bown" <josh@undertone.com> > > > > To: "swamay" <swamay@home.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 3:33 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [idm] last 6 months rule > > > > > > > > > just a question... > > > > > > > > > > what makes kyma better than reaktor? > > > > >

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Beware religion.

quoted 139 lines -----Original Message-----

> -----Original Message----- > From: swamay [mailto:swamay@home.com] > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 7:16 PM > To: Josh Bown > Cc: idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: Re: [idm] last 6 months rule > > > Hey Josh. > > I use logic too and cubase, and vst plugs. I have the DSP stuff to MAKE > synths and samplers and all that good stuff. Reaktor is good for what it > does, and will definatley give you great sounds. I really have > not listened > to My bloody valentine or the others mentioned. I have been into "pure" > electronic music my whole life. The sound of acoustic > instruments just bugs > me. I have heard it all before.. Elvis, BB king, the ramones, eric > clapton..its all the same. acoustic music using the same oscillators: > guitar, drums, bass, vocals. > > But i think what these bands you mentioned are doing is processing thier > live instruments thru electronics, which i think is great! :) > > a freind of mine in canada does that, he has a guitar, talkbox, > and TONS of > effects. he plays the guitar and it sounds nothing like a guitar. That i > think is cool. I know im a bit of a purist when it comes to electronic > music, and am sort of prejudiced against "standard" instruments. > I will be > the same guy bitching about my everyone using a Kyma or DSP > system, and them > not using the newest and latest thing. :) > > I just want to spark ideas and provoke repsonses from those that defend > "standard" instruments. > In a good way i hope. but of course when you talk about someones studio > (which they spent time and money investing in) feathers tend to > get ruffled. > :) > > take it easy! > > ~swamay~ > www.mp3.com/swamay > www.swamay.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Josh Bown" <josh@undertone.com> > To: "swamay" <swamay@home.com> > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 4:00 PM > Subject: Re: [idm] last 6 months rule > > > > I just have what I have now and I don't want to sell any of it and I > > don't have time to learn anything new right now... > > > > I get by with my nord and my mac my logic audio, EXS24 sampler, VST > > plugs and my lexicon mpx1 > > > > I may be getting reaktor soon for when I need wacked out sci-fi action > > > > most stuff I am doing lately is layered guitar stuff with lots of > > effects... > > > > just tell me, have you really listened to bands like My Bloody Valentine > > and the various experimental rock offshoots? > > > > did you check out southpacific? > > > > swamay wrote: > > > > > > you dont have to be rich, I sure am not rich. just save up for one > like > > > everyone else. Correct me if im wrong, but wouldnt it cost as much as > any > > > hardware studio setup?? > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Josh Bown" <josh@undertone.com> > > > To: "swamay" <swamay@home.com> > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 3:50 PM > > > Subject: Re: [idm] last 6 months rule > > > > > > > well hey... if I were rich, I would probably buy one, and > fly you out > > > > and pay you to teach me how to use it.... > > > > > > > > swamay wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Where do i start... > > > > > > > > > > well a standard one has 4ghz of processing power > dedicated to sound. > > > > > you can make multitrack hard disk recording systems. > > > > > you can make effects. > > > > > you can make a 600 band vocoder. > > > > > almost no latency. > > > > > spectral analysis. > > > > > morphing between any 2 sounds. > > > > > design your own controls. > > > > > spectrum editing > > > > > dedicated digital and analog ins and outs > > > > > > > > > > These are just simple, basic things. > > > > > > > > > > I could SERIOUSLY go on for an hour. Kyma and Reaktor are 2 > different > > > > > animals. they do "similar" things, but KYMA is a 1000 times more > > > powerful > > > > > and flexible. Reaktor is an inexpensive, basic modular software > synth. > > > Kyma > > > > > is a professional powerhouse for sound design and module design. > > > > > Its really not even fair to compare them. But i tried. :) > > > > > > > > > > take it easy. > > > > > > > > > > ~swamay~ > > > > > > > > > > www.mp3.com/swamay > > > > > www.swamay.com > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Josh Bown" <josh@undertone.com> > > > > > To: "swamay" <swamay@home.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 3:33 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [idm] last 6 months rule > > > > > > > > > > > just a question... > > > > > > > > > > > > what makes kyma better than reaktor? > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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quoted 2 lines I just want to spark ideas and provoke repsonses from those that defend

>I just want to spark ideas and provoke repsonses from those that defend >"standard" instruments.

To say that any instrument is 'old' or 'should not be used' is complete rubbish. My studio is a mixture of new and old, from Pro Tools and Reaktor to my guitar and SH-101. Particular ideas call for particular sounds, and that's up to the discretion of the one who has the idea to make the call. Anyone who tries to tell me that I need to give up my SourceMoog, MS20, SH-101, or Novation Supernova needs to clean their ears out (or come to my studio and I would be happy to do it for you.) Yes Reaktor is cool. Yes MAX is cool. Even Reason is alright for what it does. But when I want to grab a filter or LFO knob mid-song, nothing beats the feel of a synth. I'll take a real Prophet-5 over its virtual counterpart any day. And why not use hardware samplers? All it does is free up the mac for more plugins, etc. I can create Reaktor sounds, Run VST/Digi/Peak plugins on them, then throw it into Recycle and out to the sampler where it can be further manipulated/filtered/eq'ed, whatever. How is playing a sample on your PC different than playing one triggered on my Roland S760? I just don't understand the difference. I think it is extremely cool that an entire studio can now reside inside a PC. But there's a whole world of timbres and sounds outside the computer that are equally as valid. If you personally don't have a use for them, then don't use them. But don't try to dissuade others from experimenting with acoustic and analog sounds, because a lot of us still want to hear them. -- _____ omz _____ Beautamous Loaf Recordings -streaming audio http://www.mp3.com/stations/beautamous_loaf --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

well said omz.. analog synths have thier particular sound, as goes for acoustic instruments. but i find the sounds tiresome though. I have a pro-one, sh-1000, VCS III, and use them on some of my tracks, to give it that "old school" sound.. but it all sounds the same to me. EVERYONE is using them. Analog modeling is Analog Modeling. I wonder what the future holds on how IDM "sounds" But hey, who says an SH-101 wont sound like something else when processed, right? :) All tools should be used, old or new. But i think we all have more options now. We should explore those new options with inspiration on how we can shape the "new sounds" for the future of electronic music. take it easy. ~swamay~ www.mp3.com/swamay www.swamay.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "omz" <omz23@airmail.net> To: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 5:52 PM Subject: Re: [idm] last 6 months rule

quoted 52 lines I just want to spark ideas and provoke repsonses from those that defend

> >I just want to spark ideas and provoke repsonses from those that defend > >"standard" instruments. > > To say that any instrument is 'old' or 'should not be used' is > complete rubbish. My studio is a mixture of new and old, from Pro > Tools and Reaktor to my guitar and SH-101. Particular ideas call for > particular sounds, and that's up to the discretion of the one who has > the idea to make the call. > > Anyone who tries to tell me that I need to give up my SourceMoog, > MS20, SH-101, or Novation Supernova needs to clean their ears out (or > come to my studio and I would be happy to do it for you.) Yes Reaktor > is cool. Yes MAX is cool. Even Reason is alright for what it does. > But when I want to grab a filter or LFO knob mid-song, nothing beats > the feel of a synth. I'll take a real Prophet-5 over its virtual > counterpart any day. > > And why not use hardware samplers? All it does is free up the mac for > more plugins, etc. I can create Reaktor sounds, Run VST/Digi/Peak > plugins on them, then throw it into Recycle and out to the sampler > where it can be further manipulated/filtered/eq'ed, whatever. How is > playing a sample on your PC different than playing one triggered on > my Roland S760? I just don't understand the difference. > > I think it is extremely cool that an entire studio can now reside > inside a PC. But there's a whole world of timbres and sounds outside > the computer that are equally as valid. If you personally don't have > a use for them, then don't use them. But don't try to dissuade others > from experimenting with acoustic and analog sounds, because a lot of > us still want to hear them. > > -- > > _____ > omz > _____ > > Beautamous Loaf Recordings > -streaming audio > http://www.mp3.com/stations/beautamous_loaf > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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Hi Swamay and company, Sorry to butt in, but I really don't think this is a very mature attitude. Today's music technology is so sophisticated and rich that hardly anybody can really put it to its full use without years of experience. I still use my K2000 (invented in, what, 1990??), and am continually finding new sounds and possibilities even on what would be considered today a comparatively primitive machine. At this point, I'm a pretty advanced user, but there's really no end to what can be done. Learn your instrument. Take the time to get under the skin of your equipment, and you'll be surprised at what you'll find. Let's leave the "dedication towards forwarding musical technology" to the people who actually produce the technology. On the other hand, your attitude toward music, as expressed in your posts, is totally foreign to me. You seem to be saying that music is only interesting to you inasmuch as it presents shiny new sonorities. Look deeper! Instead of dismissing anything already done, open up to the richness and history of the world around you! A grounding in classical music probably won't help you program your Kyma any better, but it almost certainly will help you mature in your sense of musical grammar and structure. Don't you see? Innovation lies NOT in the gear, but in the music! And if you don't find the sound of an oboe fresh and exciting, just pretend somebody programmed it in MAX/MSP. Peter

quoted 7 lines If you're not using technology developed within the last 6 months,

> > > If you're not using technology developed within the last 6 months, > >you're > > > a reflection of the past. Please, if you have a serious dedication > >towards > > > forwarding electronic music technology, don't use any synthesizers > or > > > samplers.

quoted 5 lines We both meant "hardware" synths and samplers. We use DSP or a hybrid of

>We both meant "hardware" synths and samplers. We use DSP or a hybrid of >hard/software. >using an ASR-10 or a KORG keyboard is a bit overreated. they dont do much >anymore. >We make "samplers" or "synths" on the computer now a days.

quoted 1 line So once the album is over 6 months old its not relevant any more because

>>So once the album is over 6 months old its not relevant any more because

the

quoted 1 line technology is "old"!!!

>> technology is "old"!!!

quoted 4 lines No an album made in the past 6 months does not get dissed. But using the

> No an album made in the past 6 months does not get dissed. But using the >"standard" off the shelf gear to make that album does. >Thats what i mean by be an innovator. >But course there are those musicians that will always use the same old

gear,

quoted 3 lines because that is what they are comfortable with, and have no desire to move

>because that is what they are comfortable with, and have no desire to move >forward with new gear. And also dont want to go throught the learning >curve.

quoted 3 lines I think most musicians have made a rep with the gear they have, and fear

>I think most musicians have made a rep with the gear they have, and fear >rejection if their style changes in the slightest, due to new unfamiliar >gear they are using.

quoted 1 line regards..

>regards..

quoted 3 lines ~swamay~

>~swamay~ >www.mp3.com/swamay >www.swamay.com

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I don't really think much of Autechre's releases... ...though I like the more recent stuff like "EP7". And I really like their recent live material best, and those Peel sessions... which is the main reason why I'm going to see them live. Other than that, they never quite won me over, nor got to me. Hopefully the live show will change that. ======================================================================= Brian MacDonald <brianm@kuci.org> "Capital punishment turns the state into a murderer. But imprisonment turns the state into a gay dungeon-master." -- Emo Philips ======================================================================= --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I pray to god this one just gets ignored. On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Brian MacDonald wrote:

quoted 24 lines I don't really think much of Autechre's releases...

> > I don't really think much of Autechre's releases... > > ...though I like the more recent stuff like "EP7". And I really like > their recent live material best, and those Peel sessions... which is the > main reason why I'm going to see them live. > > Other than that, they never quite won me over, nor got to me. Hopefully > the live show will change that. > > ======================================================================= > Brian MacDonald <brianm@kuci.org> > > "Capital punishment turns the state into a murderer. But imprisonment > turns the state into a gay dungeon-master." -- Emo Philips > ======================================================================= > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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Brian M. Cass wrote:

quoted 1 line I pray to god this one just gets ignored.

> I pray to god this one just gets ignored.

Too late. -- forel elitist fuck --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Hey Peter. I knew i would get bashed before i started these topics on this board and others. People get so defensive with these topics. I have started this discussion on numerous boards for the simple fact to let people know that these DSP systems are available, are not as tough to learn as most think, are not as expensive as most think, and what they do. So many electronic musicians do not even know of this way of creating sound and music. They are still buying synths that are preset and not "open ended" It is not to put down what everyone is using, that we could do on the IDM making board. :) I only like IDM music. I have heard many types of music in my 25 years, and IDM is the most interesting to me. I think alot of others feel this way, on this list or not. But I do know lots of people like other types of music. I want to know why others are still into certain genres of music and why. My views on music are my own, and is obvious it is not shared by many on this list. I am an individual expressing how I feel. I know people feel differently, and like to find out why they feel differently. Topics with lots of contreversy get lots of attention. After reading these posts, I hope many have visited sites for MAX, DP, Kyma, Pulsar and others, to learn what is available, and to see how new IDM music is being made. And what a better place to discuss these issues than on this list. take it easy. ~swamay~ www.swamay.com www.mp3.com/swamay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Shultz" <pashultz@Princeton.EDU> To: <swamay@home.com>; <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 6:11 PM Subject: Re: [idm] last 6 months rule

quoted 4 lines Hi Swamay and company,

> Hi Swamay and company, > Sorry to butt in, but I really don't think this is a very mature attitude. > Today's music technology is so sophisticated and rich that hardly anybody > can really put it to its full use without years of experience. I still

use

quoted 1 line my K2000 (invented in, what, 1990??), and am continually finding new

> my K2000 (invented in, what, 1990??), and am continually finding new

sounds

quoted 3 lines and possibilities even on what would be considered today a comparatively

> and possibilities even on what would be considered today a comparatively > primitive machine. At this point, I'm a pretty advanced user, but there's > really no end to what can be done. Learn your instrument. Take the time

to

quoted 1 line get under the skin of your equipment, and you'll be surprised at what

> get under the skin of your equipment, and you'll be surprised at what

you'll

quoted 1 line find. Let's leave the "dedication towards forwarding musical technology"

> find. Let's leave the "dedication towards forwarding musical technology"

to

quoted 11 lines the people who actually produce the technology.

> the people who actually produce the technology. > On the other hand, your attitude toward music, as expressed in your posts, > is totally foreign to me. You seem to be saying that music is only > interesting to you inasmuch as it presents shiny new sonorities. Look > deeper! Instead of dismissing anything already done, open up to the > richness and history of the world around you! A grounding in classical > music probably won't help you program your Kyma any better, but it almost > certainly will help you mature in your sense of musical grammar and > structure. Don't you see? Innovation lies NOT in the gear, but in the > music! > And if you don't find the sound of an oboe fresh and exciting, just

pretend

quoted 15 lines somebody programmed it in MAX/MSP.

> somebody programmed it in MAX/MSP. > > Peter > > > > > If you're not using technology developed within the last 6 months, > > >you're > > > > a reflection of the past. Please, if you have a serious dedication > > >towards > > > > forwarding electronic music technology, don't use any synthesizers > > or > > > > samplers. > > >We both meant "hardware" synths and samplers. We use DSP or a hybrid of > >hard/software. > >using an ASR-10 or a KORG keyboard is a bit overreated. they dont do

much

quoted 8 lines anymore.

> >anymore. > >We make "samplers" or "synths" on the computer now a days. > > >>So once the album is over 6 months old its not relevant any more because > the > >> technology is "old"!!! > > > No an album made in the past 6 months does not get dissed. But using

the

quoted 5 lines "standard" off the shelf gear to make that album does.

> >"standard" off the shelf gear to make that album does. > >Thats what i mean by be an innovator. > >But course there are those musicians that will always use the same old > gear, > >because that is what they are comfortable with, and have no desire to

move

quoted 18 lines forward with new gear. And also dont want to go throught the learning

> >forward with new gear. And also dont want to go throught the learning > >curve. > > >I think most musicians have made a rep with the gear they have, and fear > >rejection if their style changes in the slightest, due to new unfamiliar > >gear they are using. > > >regards.. > > >~swamay~ > >www.mp3.com/swamay > >www.swamay.com > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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quoted 4 lines I think that people are the most petty creatures. It seems they like to

> I think that people are the most petty creatures. It seems they like to > make negative comments whenever they're not necessary. They also like to > insult things they choose to be a part of instead of appreciating it for > what it is or walking away from it if they can't appreciate it. People

are

quoted 3 lines also some of the most ironic creatures on earth. While complaining about

> also some of the most ironic creatures on earth. While complaining about > petty arguments, they're making one themselves. No, I'm not talking about > shaun making a petty comment about other petty comments or the fact that

he

quoted 1 line took a stab at hundreds of people involved in a list that brings forth a

> took a stab at hundreds of people involved in a list that brings forth a

lot

quoted 18 lines of interesting and helpful discussions when he could simply walk away

> of interesting and helpful discussions when he could simply walk away > without incident. Never. > > Jacquie > www.electronicwhore.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: ±³§x"Þ <5tx@home.com> > Cc: <idm@hyperreal.org> > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 7:43 PM > Subject: Re: [idm] last 6 months rule > > > > i think that the idm-l can be the most petty of mailing lists where it > seems > > like people from every corner will release all emotions into trying to > justify > > their opinions. it's almost as though there is something to be proven

by

quoted 2 lines petty

> petty > > jabbering? this list sucks 90% of the time but there are a few good

things

quoted 14 lines (ie.

> (ie. > > lancebot) that make it worth it > > > > shaun > > > > > > > Hey Peter. > > > > > > I knew i would get bashed before i started these topics on this board > and > > > others. > > > People get so defensive with these topics. I have started this > discussion > > > on numerous boards for the simple fact to let people know that these

DSP

quoted 1 line systems are available, are not as tough to learn as most think, are

> > > systems are available, are not as tough to learn as most think, are

not

quoted 2 lines as

> as > > > expensive as most think, and what they do. So many electronic

musicians

quoted 7 lines do

> do > > > not even know of this way of creating sound and music. They are still > > > buying synths that are preset and not "open ended" It is not to put > down > > > what everyone is using, that we could do on the IDM making board. :) > > > > > > I only like IDM music. I have heard many types of music in my 25

years,

quoted 8 lines and

> and > > > IDM is the most interesting to me. I think alot of others feel this > way, on > > > this list or not. But I do know lots of people like other types of > music. > > > I want to know why others are still into certain genres of music and > why. > > > My views on music are my own, and is obvious it is not shared by many

on

quoted 9 lines this list. I am an individual expressing how I feel. I know people

> > > this list. I am an individual expressing how I feel. I know people > feel > > > differently, and like to find out why they feel differently. > > > > > > Topics with lots of contreversy get lots of attention. After reading > these > > > posts, I hope many have visited sites for MAX, DP, Kyma, Pulsar and > others, > > > to learn what is available, and to see how new IDM music is being

made.

quoted 33 lines And

> And > > > what a better place to discuss these issues than on this list. > > > > > > take it easy. > > > > > > ~swamay~ > > > www.swamay.com > > > www.mp3.com/swamay > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Peter Shultz" <pashultz@Princeton.EDU> > > > To: <swamay@home.com>; <idm@hyperreal.org> > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 6:11 PM > > > Subject: Re: [idm] last 6 months rule > > > > > > > Hi Swamay and company, > > > > Sorry to butt in, but I really don't think this is a very mature > attitude. > > > > Today's music technology is so sophisticated and rich that hardly > anybody > > > > can really put it to its full use without years of experience. I > still > > > use > > > > my K2000 (invented in, what, 1990??), and am continually finding new > > > sounds > > > > and possibilities even on what would be considered today a > comparatively > > > > primitive machine. At this point, I'm a pretty advanced user, but > there's > > > > really no end to what can be done. Learn your instrument. Take the > time > > > to > > > > get under the skin of your equipment, and you'll be surprised at

what

quoted 9 lines you'll

> > > you'll > > > > find. Let's leave the "dedication towards forwarding musical > technology" > > > to > > > > the people who actually produce the technology. > > > > On the other hand, your attitude toward music, as expressed in your > posts, > > > > is totally foreign to me. You seem to be saying that music is only > > > > interesting to you inasmuch as it presents shiny new sonorities.

Look

quoted 30 lines deeper! Instead of dismissing anything already done, open up to the

> > > > deeper! Instead of dismissing anything already done, open up to the > > > > richness and history of the world around you! A grounding in > classical > > > > music probably won't help you program your Kyma any better, but it > almost > > > > certainly will help you mature in your sense of musical grammar and > > > > structure. Don't you see? Innovation lies NOT in the gear, but in > the > > > > music! > > > > And if you don't find the sound of an oboe fresh and exciting, just > > > pretend > > > > somebody programmed it in MAX/MSP. > > > > > > > > Peter > > > > > > > > > > > If you're not using technology developed within the last 6 > months, > > > > > >you're > > > > > > > a reflection of the past. Please, if you have a serious > dedication > > > > > >towards > > > > > > > forwarding electronic music technology, don't use any > synthesizers > > > > > or > > > > > > > samplers. > > > > > > > > >We both meant "hardware" synths and samplers. We use DSP or a > hybrid of > > > > >hard/software. > > > > >using an ASR-10 or a KORG keyboard is a bit overreated. they dont

do

quoted 18 lines much

> > > much > > > > >anymore. > > > > >We make "samplers" or "synths" on the computer now a days. > > > > > > > > >>So once the album is over 6 months old its not relevant any more > because > > > > the > > > > >> technology is "old"!!! > > > > > > > > > No an album made in the past 6 months does not get dissed. But > using > > > the > > > > >"standard" off the shelf gear to make that album does. > > > > >Thats what i mean by be an innovator. > > > > >But course there are those musicians that will always use the same > old > > > > gear, > > > > >because that is what they are comfortable with, and have no desire

to

quoted 40 lines move

> > > move > > > > >forward with new gear. And also dont want to go throught the > learning > > > > >curve. > > > > > > > > >I think most musicians have made a rep with the gear they have, and > fear > > > > >rejection if their style changes in the slightest, due to new > unfamiliar > > > > >gear they are using. > > > > > > > > >regards.. > > > > > > > > >~swamay~ > > > > >www.mp3.com/swamay > > > > >www.swamay.com > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > -- > > {{{5x}}} > > :::frontin' so you don't have to::: > > :::http://24.108.117.188 ::: > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > >

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ok swamay, I gave you the benefit of the doubt and logged on to mp3.com and had a listen to "what's your frequency" and "freq the technique" and I liked both of the tracks.Obviously I couldn't hear everything in them because I'm using a 56kbps modem (fastest domestic connection available in Ireland btw !!!!!!!) but I have to say that I then put on "Ageispolis" and "Xtal" by the Aphex Twin and well you know who won. Your stuff is nice in an R'n'b meets electro vein (esp. wyf )but it kind of limped along clutching its balls. It may be "cutting edge" but its still miles behind the above 2 tracks (and you know how that album was mastered). Sorry. Maybe I'm the guy to make you try harder. Please do. But don't forget to get rid of your Kyma in 6 months. All the best, Paul Chillage.

quoted 211 lines From: "swamay" <swamay@home.com>

>From: "swamay" <swamay@home.com> >To: "Josh Bown" <josh@undertone.com> >CC: "Paul Chillage" <paulchillage@hotmail.com>, <idm@hyperreal.org> >Subject: Re: [idm] last 6 months rule >Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:34:41 -0700 > >Simpler the better eh? not for me. i like options. dont like to conform >to what i have been given. there is always more out there. > > ><<who needs more than a > > few waveforms, > >ME > ><<a couple envelopes and a couple of LFOs???? > >ME > ><< WHY????? > >so i can make more interesting music. > > >>? who wants to lug a computer to a gig???? > >ME > > > Have you ever considered that maybe the problem isn't that you don't > > have enough new gadgets, but that you just lack talent???? > >Yes i sold all my gadgets to get a computer system, I oooze talent.. and >KNOW that. :) > > ><<> New sound and gadget obsession is not a sign of musical innovation, it > > is a sign of boredom and boringness and means you are probably just a > > sound designer who wishes he was a musician. SOund designers get paid > > big bucks in hollywood to do special effects in sci-fi movies... Why not > > go get a job in hollywood and you will be more successful than 99.99% of > > all musicians out there.... > > >hahaha... I DO! :) that is why i bought KYMA in the first place :) > > ><<> ok so before you have even heard my album, the fact that I am using a > > Nord, my guitar, a sampler and some effects already eliminates it from > > consideration? man.... WOW you are just too much!>> > >No, I dont like guitars. Where can i hear your album...I will listen to it >gladly. :) > ><<> or because the fall in love with a particular instrument and it always > > goes beyond their wildest dreams in satisfying their needs and they have > > no reason to look elsewhere?>> > >more power to ya. :) But i would be surprised if ANY peice of gear >satisfied anyones need to where they dont have to look elsewhere. not even >DSP systems (which are more advanced than anything else in the market) go >beyond my wildest dreams. If a sampler and a few synths will go beyond >your wildest dreams, then you are one LUCKY electronic musician. and you >will save TONS of money over your carreer. > > ><<Well, I went through that > > phase and then I realized that nothing is really ever new anyway, we all > > recycle our influences, and originality is great, but only when combined > > with quality, which implies the ability to communicate emotions and > > ideas through music, some of which are timeless and old and others are > > new... you have to be able to combine all of the forces together to > > achieve greatness...>> > >Jesus! do you even know what a KYMA does???? or beyond that, have you >used >one?? >So you know what it can do to your influences, your recylcled influences. >Im happy with this "phase" im going thru. This "phase" allows me to do >things with my equipment you C >AN NOT do with any other peice of gear. > >I feel that anyone can make electronic music. my mother has given it a >shot >and she listens to jazz. But to be an innovator you must stay on top of >technology and break barriers that no one else is. That is my hope with >DSP >systems. And am sure this is why Atom Heart/Autechre/Low Rez and others >buy >these systems, to get unique sounds, and to give them flexibility they did >not have with conventional gear. > >Take it easy. > >~swamay~ > >www.mp3.com/swamay >www.swamay.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Josh Bown" <josh@undertone.com> >To: "swamay" <swamay@home.com> >Cc: "Paul Chillage" <paulchillage@hotmail.com>; <idm@hyperreal.org> >Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 12:56 PM >Subject: Re: [idm] last 6 months rule > > > > comments inline below: > > > > swamay wrote: > > > > > > > > > If you're not using technology developed within the last 6 >months, > > > > >you're > > > > > > a reflection of the past. Please, if you have a serious >dedication > > > > >towards > > > > > > forwarding electronic music technology, don't use any >synthesizers > > > > or > > > > > > samplers. > > > > > > We both meant "hardware" synths and samplers. We use DSP or a hybrid >of > > > hard/software. > > > using an ASR-10 or a KORG keyboard is a bit overreated. they dont do >much > > > anymore. > > > We make "samplers" or "synths" on the computer now a days. > > > > who wants to lug a computer to a gig???? > > > > also, I like knobs!!!! the simpler the better... who needs more than a > > few waveforms, a couple envelopes and a couple of LFOs???? WHY????? > > Have you ever considered that maybe the problem isn't that you don't > > have enough new gadgets, but that you just lack talent???? > > > > New sound and gadget obsession is not a sign of musical innovation, it > > is a sign of boredom and boringness and means you are probably just a > > sound designer who wishes he was a musician. SOund designers get paid > > big bucks in hollywood to do special effects in sci-fi movies... Why not > > go get a job in hollywood and you will be more successful than 99.99% of > > all musicians out there.... > > > > > > > > >So once the album is over 6 months old its not relevant any more >because > > > the > > > > technology is "old"!!! > > > > > > No an album made in the past 6 months does not get dissed. But using >the > > > "standard" off the shelf gear to make that album does. > > > Thats what i mean by be an innovator. > > > > ok so before you have even heard my album, the fact that I am using a > > Nord, my guitar, a sampler and some effects already eliminates it from > > consideration? man.... WOW you are just too much! > > > > > But course there are those musicians that will always use the same old >gear, > > > because that is what they are comfortable with, and have no desire to >move > > > forward with new gear. And also dont want to go throught the learning > > > curve. > > > > or because the fall in love with a particular instrument and it always > > goes beyond their wildest dreams in satisfying their needs and they have > > no reason to look elsewhere? > > > > > > > > I think most musicians have made a rep with the gear they have, and >fear > > > rejection if their style changes in the slightest, due to new >unfamiliar > > > gear they are using. > > > > I think you must be smoking crack. Most musicians with any integrity > > care not one iota about their "rep" and will use whatever tools are > > necessary to accomplish the task at hand.... If you need a piano sound, > > use a piano. If you need a rhodes keyboard sound, use one of those, if > > you need a psychedelic synth sound, what's wrong with a Nord or even an > > old MOOG or something? > > > > no hard feelings man, I just think you have a very unique taste or that > > your style and taste is maybe going through a phase that I think we have > > all been through where you focus on originality at all costs. In other > > words, originality is all that matters, so just because no one else has > > done it before or it's new makes it great... Well, I went through that > > phase and then I realized that nothing is really ever new anyway, we all > > recycle our influences, and originality is great, but only when combined > > with quality, which implies the ability to communicate emotions and > > ideas through music, some of which are timeless and old and others are > > new... you have to be able to combine all of the forces together to > > achieve greatness... > > > > in my humble opinion..... >

_________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

i think that the idm-l can be the most petty of mailing lists where it seems like people from every corner will release all emotions into trying to justify their opinions. it's almost as though there is something to be proven by petty jabbering? this list sucks 90% of the time but there are a few good things (ie. lancebot) that make it worth it shaun

quoted 117 lines Hey Peter.

> Hey Peter. > > I knew i would get bashed before i started these topics on this board and > others. > People get so defensive with these topics. I have started this discussion > on numerous boards for the simple fact to let people know that these DSP > systems are available, are not as tough to learn as most think, are not as > expensive as most think, and what they do. So many electronic musicians do > not even know of this way of creating sound and music. They are still > buying synths that are preset and not "open ended" It is not to put down > what everyone is using, that we could do on the IDM making board. :) > > I only like IDM music. I have heard many types of music in my 25 years, and > IDM is the most interesting to me. I think alot of others feel this way, on > this list or not. But I do know lots of people like other types of music. > I want to know why others are still into certain genres of music and why. > My views on music are my own, and is obvious it is not shared by many on > this list. I am an individual expressing how I feel. I know people feel > differently, and like to find out why they feel differently. > > Topics with lots of contreversy get lots of attention. After reading these > posts, I hope many have visited sites for MAX, DP, Kyma, Pulsar and others, > to learn what is available, and to see how new IDM music is being made. And > what a better place to discuss these issues than on this list. > > take it easy. > > ~swamay~ > www.swamay.com > www.mp3.com/swamay > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter Shultz" <pashultz@Princeton.EDU> > To: <swamay@home.com>; <idm@hyperreal.org> > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 6:11 PM > Subject: Re: [idm] last 6 months rule > > > Hi Swamay and company, > > Sorry to butt in, but I really don't think this is a very mature attitude. > > Today's music technology is so sophisticated and rich that hardly anybody > > can really put it to its full use without years of experience. I still > use > > my K2000 (invented in, what, 1990??), and am continually finding new > sounds > > and possibilities even on what would be considered today a comparatively > > primitive machine. At this point, I'm a pretty advanced user, but there's > > really no end to what can be done. Learn your instrument. Take the time > to > > get under the skin of your equipment, and you'll be surprised at what > you'll > > find. Let's leave the "dedication towards forwarding musical technology" > to > > the people who actually produce the technology. > > On the other hand, your attitude toward music, as expressed in your posts, > > is totally foreign to me. You seem to be saying that music is only > > interesting to you inasmuch as it presents shiny new sonorities. Look > > deeper! Instead of dismissing anything already done, open up to the > > richness and history of the world around you! A grounding in classical > > music probably won't help you program your Kyma any better, but it almost > > certainly will help you mature in your sense of musical grammar and > > structure. Don't you see? Innovation lies NOT in the gear, but in the > > music! > > And if you don't find the sound of an oboe fresh and exciting, just > pretend > > somebody programmed it in MAX/MSP. > > > > Peter > > > > > > > If you're not using technology developed within the last 6 months, > > > >you're > > > > > a reflection of the past. Please, if you have a serious dedication > > > >towards > > > > > forwarding electronic music technology, don't use any synthesizers > > > or > > > > > samplers. > > > > >We both meant "hardware" synths and samplers. We use DSP or a hybrid of > > >hard/software. > > >using an ASR-10 or a KORG keyboard is a bit overreated. they dont do > much > > >anymore. > > >We make "samplers" or "synths" on the computer now a days. > > > > >>So once the album is over 6 months old its not relevant any more because > > the > > >> technology is "old"!!! > > > > > No an album made in the past 6 months does not get dissed. But using > the > > >"standard" off the shelf gear to make that album does. > > >Thats what i mean by be an innovator. > > >But course there are those musicians that will always use the same old > > gear, > > >because that is what they are comfortable with, and have no desire to > move > > >forward with new gear. And also dont want to go throught the learning > > >curve. > > > > >I think most musicians have made a rep with the gear they have, and fear > > >rejection if their style changes in the slightest, due to new unfamiliar > > >gear they are using. > > > > >regards.. > > > > >~swamay~ > > >www.mp3.com/swamay > > >www.swamay.com > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

-- {{{5x}}} :::frontin' so you don't have to::: :::http://24.108.117.188 ::: --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

thanks for the kind comments Paul. ~swamay~ www.mp3.com/swamay www.swamay.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Chillage" <paulchillage@hotmail.com> To: <swamay@home.com>; <josh@undertone.com> Cc: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 7:10 PM Subject: Re: [idm] last 6 months rule

quoted 8 lines ok swamay,

> ok swamay, > I gave you the benefit of the doubt and logged on to mp3.com > and had a listen to "what's your frequency" and "freq the technique" and I > liked both of the tracks.Obviously I couldn't hear everything in them > because I'm using a 56kbps modem (fastest domestic connection available in > Ireland btw !!!!!!!) but I have to say that I then put on "Ageispolis" and > "Xtal" by the Aphex Twin and well you know who won. > Your stuff is nice in an R'n'b meets electro vein (esp. wyf )but it kind

of

quoted 2 lines limped along clutching its balls.

> limped along clutching its balls. > It may be "cutting edge" but its still miles behind the above 2 tracks

(and

quoted 17 lines you know how that album was mastered).

> you know how that album was mastered). > Sorry. > Maybe I'm the guy to make you try harder. > Please do. > But don't forget to get rid of your Kyma in 6 months. > All the best, > Paul Chillage. > > > > >From: "swamay" <swamay@home.com> > >To: "Josh Bown" <josh@undertone.com> > >CC: "Paul Chillage" <paulchillage@hotmail.com>, <idm@hyperreal.org> > >Subject: Re: [idm] last 6 months rule > >Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:34:41 -0700 > > > >Simpler the better eh? not for me. i like options. dont like to

conform

quoted 28 lines to what i have been given. there is always more out there.

> >to what i have been given. there is always more out there. > > > > > ><<who needs more than a > > > few waveforms, > > > >ME > > > ><<a couple envelopes and a couple of LFOs???? > > > >ME > > > ><< WHY????? > > > >so i can make more interesting music. > > > > >>? who wants to lug a computer to a gig???? > > > >ME > > > > > Have you ever considered that maybe the problem isn't that you don't > > > have enough new gadgets, but that you just lack talent???? > > > >Yes i sold all my gadgets to get a computer system, I oooze talent.. and > >KNOW that. :) > > > > > ><<> New sound and gadget obsession is not a sign of musical innovation,

it

quoted 3 lines is a sign of boredom and boringness and means you are probably just a

> > > is a sign of boredom and boringness and means you are probably just a > > > sound designer who wishes he was a musician. SOund designers get paid > > > big bucks in hollywood to do special effects in sci-fi movies... Why

not

quoted 1 line go get a job in hollywood and you will be more successful than 99.99%

> > > go get a job in hollywood and you will be more successful than 99.99%

of

quoted 11 lines all musicians out there....

> > > all musicians out there.... > > > > > >hahaha... I DO! :) that is why i bought KYMA in the first place :) > > > > > ><<> ok so before you have even heard my album, the fact that I am using a > > > Nord, my guitar, a sampler and some effects already eliminates it from > > > consideration? man.... WOW you are just too much!>> > > > >No, I dont like guitars. Where can i hear your album...I will listen to

it

quoted 3 lines gladly. :)

> >gladly. :) > > > ><<> or because the fall in love with a particular instrument and it

always

quoted 1 line goes beyond their wildest dreams in satisfying their needs and they

> > > goes beyond their wildest dreams in satisfying their needs and they

have

quoted 4 lines no reason to look elsewhere?>>

> > > no reason to look elsewhere?>> > > > >more power to ya. :) But i would be surprised if ANY peice of gear > >satisfied anyones need to where they dont have to look elsewhere. not

even

quoted 8 lines DSP systems (which are more advanced than anything else in the market) go

> >DSP systems (which are more advanced than anything else in the market) go > >beyond my wildest dreams. If a sampler and a few synths will go beyond > >your wildest dreams, then you are one LUCKY electronic musician. and you > >will save TONS of money over your carreer. > > > > > ><<Well, I went through that > > > phase and then I realized that nothing is really ever new anyway, we

all

quoted 1 line recycle our influences, and originality is great, but only when

> > > recycle our influences, and originality is great, but only when

combined

quoted 21 lines with quality, which implies the ability to communicate emotions and

> > > with quality, which implies the ability to communicate emotions and > > > ideas through music, some of which are timeless and old and others are > > > new... you have to be able to combine all of the forces together to > > > achieve greatness...>> > > > >Jesus! do you even know what a KYMA does???? or beyond that, have you > >used > >one?? > >So you know what it can do to your influences, your recylcled influences. > >Im happy with this "phase" im going thru. This "phase" allows me to do > >things with my equipment you C > >AN NOT do with any other peice of gear. > > > >I feel that anyone can make electronic music. my mother has given it a > >shot > >and she listens to jazz. But to be an innovator you must stay on top of > >technology and break barriers that no one else is. That is my hope with > >DSP > >systems. And am sure this is why Atom Heart/Autechre/Low Rez and others > >buy > >these systems, to get unique sounds, and to give them flexibility they

did

quoted 48 lines not have with conventional gear.

> >not have with conventional gear. > > > >Take it easy. > > > >~swamay~ > > > >www.mp3.com/swamay > >www.swamay.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Josh Bown" <josh@undertone.com> > >To: "swamay" <swamay@home.com> > >Cc: "Paul Chillage" <paulchillage@hotmail.com>; <idm@hyperreal.org> > >Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 12:56 PM > >Subject: Re: [idm] last 6 months rule > > > > > > > comments inline below: > > > > > > swamay wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > If you're not using technology developed within the last 6 > >months, > > > > > >you're > > > > > > > a reflection of the past. Please, if you have a serious > >dedication > > > > > >towards > > > > > > > forwarding electronic music technology, don't use any > >synthesizers > > > > > or > > > > > > > samplers. > > > > > > > > We both meant "hardware" synths and samplers. We use DSP or a

hybrid

quoted 3 lines of

> >of > > > > hard/software. > > > > using an ASR-10 or a KORG keyboard is a bit overreated. they dont

do

quoted 7 lines much

> >much > > > > anymore. > > > > We make "samplers" or "synths" on the computer now a days. > > > > > > who wants to lug a computer to a gig???? > > > > > > also, I like knobs!!!! the simpler the better... who needs more than

a

quoted 8 lines few waveforms, a couple envelopes and a couple of LFOs???? WHY?????

> > > few waveforms, a couple envelopes and a couple of LFOs???? WHY????? > > > Have you ever considered that maybe the problem isn't that you don't > > > have enough new gadgets, but that you just lack talent???? > > > > > > New sound and gadget obsession is not a sign of musical innovation, it > > > is a sign of boredom and boringness and means you are probably just a > > > sound designer who wishes he was a musician. SOund designers get paid > > > big bucks in hollywood to do special effects in sci-fi movies... Why

not

quoted 1 line go get a job in hollywood and you will be more successful than 99.99%

> > > go get a job in hollywood and you will be more successful than 99.99%

of

quoted 9 lines all musicians out there....

> > > all musicians out there.... > > > > > > > > > > > >So once the album is over 6 months old its not relevant any more > >because > > > > the > > > > > technology is "old"!!! > > > > > > > > No an album made in the past 6 months does not get dissed. But

using

quoted 9 lines the

> >the > > > > "standard" off the shelf gear to make that album does. > > > > Thats what i mean by be an innovator. > > > > > > ok so before you have even heard my album, the fact that I am using a > > > Nord, my guitar, a sampler and some effects already eliminates it from > > > consideration? man.... WOW you are just too much! > > > > > > > But course there are those musicians that will always use the same

old

quoted 2 lines gear,

> >gear, > > > > because that is what they are comfortable with, and have no desire

to

quoted 2 lines move

> >move > > > > forward with new gear. And also dont want to go throught the

learning

quoted 4 lines curve.

> > > > curve. > > > > > > or because the fall in love with a particular instrument and it always > > > goes beyond their wildest dreams in satisfying their needs and they

have

quoted 12 lines no reason to look elsewhere?

> > > no reason to look elsewhere? > > > > > > > > > > > I think most musicians have made a rep with the gear they have, and > >fear > > > > rejection if their style changes in the slightest, due to new > >unfamiliar > > > > gear they are using. > > > > > > I think you must be smoking crack. Most musicians with any integrity > > > care not one iota about their "rep" and will use whatever tools are > > > necessary to accomplish the task at hand.... If you need a piano

sound,

quoted 2 lines use a piano. If you need a rhodes keyboard sound, use one of those, if

> > > use a piano. If you need a rhodes keyboard sound, use one of those, if > > > you need a psychedelic synth sound, what's wrong with a Nord or even

an

quoted 3 lines old MOOG or something?

> > > old MOOG or something? > > > > > > no hard feelings man, I just think you have a very unique taste or

that

quoted 1 line your style and taste is maybe going through a phase that I think we

> > > your style and taste is maybe going through a phase that I think we

have

quoted 2 lines all been through where you focus on originality at all costs. In other

> > > all been through where you focus on originality at all costs. In other > > > words, originality is all that matters, so just because no one else

has

quoted 2 lines done it before or it's new makes it great... Well, I went through that

> > > done it before or it's new makes it great... Well, I went through that > > > phase and then I realized that nothing is really ever new anyway, we

all

quoted 1 line recycle our influences, and originality is great, but only when

> > > recycle our influences, and originality is great, but only when

combined

quoted 11 lines with quality, which implies the ability to communicate emotions and

> > > with quality, which implies the ability to communicate emotions and > > > ideas through music, some of which are timeless and old and others are > > > new... you have to be able to combine all of the forces together to > > > achieve greatness... > > > > > > in my humble opinion..... > > > > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. >

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No problem. Keep up the good work, Paul Chillage.

quoted 320 lines From: "swamay" <swamay@home.com>

>From: "swamay" <swamay@home.com> >To: "Paul Chillage" <paulchillage@hotmail.com>, <josh@undertone.com> >CC: <idm@hyperreal.org> >Subject: Re: [idm] last 6 months rule >Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 20:55:57 -0700 > >thanks for the kind comments Paul. > >~swamay~ >www.mp3.com/swamay >www.swamay.com > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Paul Chillage" <paulchillage@hotmail.com> >To: <swamay@home.com>; <josh@undertone.com> >Cc: <idm@hyperreal.org> >Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 7:10 PM >Subject: Re: [idm] last 6 months rule > > > > ok swamay, > > I gave you the benefit of the doubt and logged on to mp3.com > > and had a listen to "what's your frequency" and "freq the technique" and >I > > liked both of the tracks.Obviously I couldn't hear everything in them > > because I'm using a 56kbps modem (fastest domestic connection available >in > > Ireland btw !!!!!!!) but I have to say that I then put on "Ageispolis" >and > > "Xtal" by the Aphex Twin and well you know who won. > > Your stuff is nice in an R'n'b meets electro vein (esp. wyf )but it kind >of > > limped along clutching its balls. > > It may be "cutting edge" but its still miles behind the above 2 tracks >(and > > you know how that album was mastered). > > Sorry. > > Maybe I'm the guy to make you try harder. > > Please do. > > But don't forget to get rid of your Kyma in 6 months. > > All the best, > > Paul Chillage. > > > > > > > > >From: "swamay" <swamay@home.com> > > >To: "Josh Bown" <josh@undertone.com> > > >CC: "Paul Chillage" <paulchillage@hotmail.com>, <idm@hyperreal.org> > > >Subject: Re: [idm] last 6 months rule > > >Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:34:41 -0700 > > > > > >Simpler the better eh? not for me. i like options. dont like to >conform > > >to what i have been given. there is always more out there. > > > > > > > > ><<who needs more than a > > > > few waveforms, > > > > > >ME > > > > > ><<a couple envelopes and a couple of LFOs???? > > > > > >ME > > > > > ><< WHY????? > > > > > >so i can make more interesting music. > > > > > > >>? who wants to lug a computer to a gig???? > > > > > >ME > > > > > > > Have you ever considered that maybe the problem isn't that you don't > > > > have enough new gadgets, but that you just lack talent???? > > > > > >Yes i sold all my gadgets to get a computer system, I oooze talent.. >and > > >KNOW that. :) > > > > > > > > ><<> New sound and gadget obsession is not a sign of musical innovation, >it > > > > is a sign of boredom and boringness and means you are probably just >a > > > > sound designer who wishes he was a musician. SOund designers get >paid > > > > big bucks in hollywood to do special effects in sci-fi movies... Why >not > > > > go get a job in hollywood and you will be more successful than >99.99% >of > > > > all musicians out there.... > > > > > > > > >hahaha... I DO! :) that is why i bought KYMA in the first place :) > > > > > > > > ><<> ok so before you have even heard my album, the fact that I am using >a > > > > Nord, my guitar, a sampler and some effects already eliminates it >from > > > > consideration? man.... WOW you are just too much!>> > > > > > >No, I dont like guitars. Where can i hear your album...I will listen >to >it > > >gladly. :) > > > > > ><<> or because the fall in love with a particular instrument and it >always > > > > goes beyond their wildest dreams in satisfying their needs and they >have > > > > no reason to look elsewhere?>> > > > > > >more power to ya. :) But i would be surprised if ANY peice of gear > > >satisfied anyones need to where they dont have to look elsewhere. not >even > > >DSP systems (which are more advanced than anything else in the market) >go > > >beyond my wildest dreams. If a sampler and a few synths will go >beyond > > >your wildest dreams, then you are one LUCKY electronic musician. and >you > > >will save TONS of money over your carreer. > > > > > > > > ><<Well, I went through that > > > > phase and then I realized that nothing is really ever new anyway, we >all > > > > recycle our influences, and originality is great, but only when >combined > > > > with quality, which implies the ability to communicate emotions and > > > > ideas through music, some of which are timeless and old and others >are > > > > new... you have to be able to combine all of the forces together to > > > > achieve greatness...>> > > > > > >Jesus! do you even know what a KYMA does???? or beyond that, have you > > >used > > >one?? > > >So you know what it can do to your influences, your recylcled >influences. > > >Im happy with this "phase" im going thru. This "phase" allows me to do > > >things with my equipment you C > > >AN NOT do with any other peice of gear. > > > > > >I feel that anyone can make electronic music. my mother has given it a > > >shot > > >and she listens to jazz. But to be an innovator you must stay on top >of > > >technology and break barriers that no one else is. That is my hope >with > > >DSP > > >systems. And am sure this is why Atom Heart/Autechre/Low Rez and >others > > >buy > > >these systems, to get unique sounds, and to give them flexibility they >did > > >not have with conventional gear. > > > > > >Take it easy. > > > > > >~swamay~ > > > > > >www.mp3.com/swamay > > >www.swamay.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Josh Bown" <josh@undertone.com> > > >To: "swamay" <swamay@home.com> > > >Cc: "Paul Chillage" <paulchillage@hotmail.com>; <idm@hyperreal.org> > > >Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 12:56 PM > > >Subject: Re: [idm] last 6 months rule > > > > > > > > > > comments inline below: > > > > > > > > swamay wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you're not using technology developed within the last 6 > > >months, > > > > > > >you're > > > > > > > > a reflection of the past. Please, if you have a serious > > >dedication > > > > > > >towards > > > > > > > > forwarding electronic music technology, don't use any > > >synthesizers > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > samplers. > > > > > > > > > > We both meant "hardware" synths and samplers. We use DSP or a >hybrid > > >of > > > > > hard/software. > > > > > using an ASR-10 or a KORG keyboard is a bit overreated. they dont >do > > >much > > > > > anymore. > > > > > We make "samplers" or "synths" on the computer now a days. > > > > > > > > who wants to lug a computer to a gig???? > > > > > > > > also, I like knobs!!!! the simpler the better... who needs more >than >a > > > > few waveforms, a couple envelopes and a couple of LFOs???? WHY????? > > > > Have you ever considered that maybe the problem isn't that you don't > > > > have enough new gadgets, but that you just lack talent???? > > > > > > > > New sound and gadget obsession is not a sign of musical innovation, >it > > > > is a sign of boredom and boringness and means you are probably just >a > > > > sound designer who wishes he was a musician. SOund designers get >paid > > > > big bucks in hollywood to do special effects in sci-fi movies... Why >not > > > > go get a job in hollywood and you will be more successful than >99.99% >of > > > > all musicians out there.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >So once the album is over 6 months old its not relevant any more > > >because > > > > > the > > > > > > technology is "old"!!! > > > > > > > > > > No an album made in the past 6 months does not get dissed. But >using > > >the > > > > > "standard" off the shelf gear to make that album does. > > > > > Thats what i mean by be an innovator. > > > > > > > > ok so before you have even heard my album, the fact that I am using >a > > > > Nord, my guitar, a sampler and some effects already eliminates it >from > > > > consideration? man.... WOW you are just too much! > > > > > > > > > But course there are those musicians that will always use the same >old > > >gear, > > > > > because that is what they are comfortable with, and have no desire >to > > >move > > > > > forward with new gear. And also dont want to go throught the >learning > > > > > curve. > > > > > > > > or because the fall in love with a particular instrument and it >always > > > > goes beyond their wildest dreams in satisfying their needs and they >have > > > > no reason to look elsewhere? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think most musicians have made a rep with the gear they have, >and > > >fear > > > > > rejection if their style changes in the slightest, due to new > > >unfamiliar > > > > > gear they are using. > > > > > > > > I think you must be smoking crack. Most musicians with any integrity > > > > care not one iota about their "rep" and will use whatever tools are > > > > necessary to accomplish the task at hand.... If you need a piano >sound, > > > > use a piano. If you need a rhodes keyboard sound, use one of those, >if > > > > you need a psychedelic synth sound, what's wrong with a Nord or even >an > > > > old MOOG or something? > > > > > > > > no hard feelings man, I just think you have a very unique taste or >that > > > > your style and taste is maybe going through a phase that I think we >have > > > > all been through where you focus on originality at all costs. In >other > > > > words, originality is all that matters, so just because no one else >has > > > > done it before or it's new makes it great... Well, I went through >that > > > > phase and then I realized that nothing is really ever new anyway, we >all > > > > recycle our influences, and originality is great, but only when >combined > > > > with quality, which implies the ability to communicate emotions and > > > > ideas through music, some of which are timeless and old and others >are > > > > new... you have to be able to combine all of the forces together to > > > > achieve greatness... > > > > > > > > in my humble opinion..... > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at >http://www.hotmail.com. > > >

_________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Agreed, i think there is a past here. Some people are having these discussions, and i think it would be unfair to ask them to stop having them, since this board is here to discuss issues with IDM music. We dont like everything we read, so we delete the messages we dont care to see, and move on with our lives :) ~swamay~ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Electronic Whore" <jacquie@electronicwhore.com> To: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 7:00 PM Subject: [idm] Fw: [idm] last 6 months rule

quoted 3 lines I think that people are the most petty creatures. It seems they like to

> > > I think that people are the most petty creatures. It seems they like to > > make negative comments whenever they're not necessary. They also like

to

quoted 4 lines insult things they choose to be a part of instead of appreciating it for

> > insult things they choose to be a part of instead of appreciating it for > > what it is or walking away from it if they can't appreciate it. People > are > > also some of the most ironic creatures on earth. While complaining

about

quoted 1 line petty arguments, they're making one themselves. No, I'm not talking

> > petty arguments, they're making one themselves. No, I'm not talking

about

quoted 35 lines shaun making a petty comment about other petty comments or the fact that

> > shaun making a petty comment about other petty comments or the fact that > he > > took a stab at hundreds of people involved in a list that brings forth a > lot > > of interesting and helpful discussions when he could simply walk away > > without incident. Never. > > > > Jacquie > > www.electronicwhore.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: ±³§x"Þ <5tx@home.com> > > Cc: <idm@hyperreal.org> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 7:43 PM > > Subject: Re: [idm] last 6 months rule > > > > > > > i think that the idm-l can be the most petty of mailing lists where it > > seems > > > like people from every corner will release all emotions into trying to > > justify > > > their opinions. it's almost as though there is something to be proven > by > > petty > > > jabbering? this list sucks 90% of the time but there are a few good > things > > (ie. > > > lancebot) that make it worth it > > > > > > shaun > > > > > > > > > > Hey Peter. > > > > > > > > I knew i would get bashed before i started these topics on this

board

quoted 13 lines and

> > and > > > > others. > > > > People get so defensive with these topics. I have started this > > discussion > > > > on numerous boards for the simple fact to let people know that these > DSP > > > > systems are available, are not as tough to learn as most think, are > not > > as > > > > expensive as most think, and what they do. So many electronic > musicians > > do > > > > not even know of this way of creating sound and music. They are

still

quoted 3 lines buying synths that are preset and not "open ended" It is not to put

> > > > buying synths that are preset and not "open ended" It is not to put > > down > > > > what everyone is using, that we could do on the IDM making board.

:)

quoted 11 lines I only like IDM music. I have heard many types of music in my 25

> > > > > > > > I only like IDM music. I have heard many types of music in my 25 > years, > > and > > > > IDM is the most interesting to me. I think alot of others feel this > > way, on > > > > this list or not. But I do know lots of people like other types of > > music. > > > > I want to know why others are still into certain genres of music and > > why. > > > > My views on music are my own, and is obvious it is not shared by

many

quoted 35 lines on

> on > > > > this list. I am an individual expressing how I feel. I know people > > feel > > > > differently, and like to find out why they feel differently. > > > > > > > > Topics with lots of contreversy get lots of attention. After reading > > these > > > > posts, I hope many have visited sites for MAX, DP, Kyma, Pulsar and > > others, > > > > to learn what is available, and to see how new IDM music is being > made. > > And > > > > what a better place to discuss these issues than on this list. > > > > > > > > take it easy. > > > > > > > > ~swamay~ > > > > www.swamay.com > > > > www.mp3.com/swamay > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Peter Shultz" <pashultz@Princeton.EDU> > > > > To: <swamay@home.com>; <idm@hyperreal.org> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 6:11 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [idm] last 6 months rule > > > > > > > > > Hi Swamay and company, > > > > > Sorry to butt in, but I really don't think this is a very mature > > attitude. > > > > > Today's music technology is so sophisticated and rich that hardly > > anybody > > > > > can really put it to its full use without years of experience. I > > still > > > > use > > > > > my K2000 (invented in, what, 1990??), and am continually finding

new

quoted 6 lines sounds

> > > > sounds > > > > > and possibilities even on what would be considered today a > > comparatively > > > > > primitive machine. At this point, I'm a pretty advanced user, but > > there's > > > > > really no end to what can be done. Learn your instrument. Take

the

quoted 10 lines time

> > time > > > > to > > > > > get under the skin of your equipment, and you'll be surprised at > what > > > > you'll > > > > > find. Let's leave the "dedication towards forwarding musical > > technology" > > > > to > > > > > the people who actually produce the technology. > > > > > On the other hand, your attitude toward music, as expressed in

your

quoted 2 lines posts,

> > posts, > > > > > is totally foreign to me. You seem to be saying that music is

only

quoted 3 lines interesting to you inasmuch as it presents shiny new sonorities.

> > > > > interesting to you inasmuch as it presents shiny new sonorities. > Look > > > > > deeper! Instead of dismissing anything already done, open up to

the

quoted 5 lines richness and history of the world around you! A grounding in

> > > > > richness and history of the world around you! A grounding in > > classical > > > > > music probably won't help you program your Kyma any better, but it > > almost > > > > > certainly will help you mature in your sense of musical grammar

and

quoted 1 line structure. Don't you see? Innovation lies NOT in the gear, but

> > > > > structure. Don't you see? Innovation lies NOT in the gear, but

in

quoted 3 lines the

> > the > > > > > music! > > > > > And if you don't find the sound of an oboe fresh and exciting,

just

quoted 20 lines pretend

> > > > pretend > > > > > somebody programmed it in MAX/MSP. > > > > > > > > > > Peter > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you're not using technology developed within the last 6 > > months, > > > > > > >you're > > > > > > > > a reflection of the past. Please, if you have a serious > > dedication > > > > > > >towards > > > > > > > > forwarding electronic music technology, don't use any > > synthesizers > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > samplers. > > > > > > > > > > >We both meant "hardware" synths and samplers. We use DSP or a > > hybrid of > > > > > >hard/software. > > > > > >using an ASR-10 or a KORG keyboard is a bit overreated. they

dont

quoted 16 lines do

> do > > > > much > > > > > >anymore. > > > > > >We make "samplers" or "synths" on the computer now a days. > > > > > > > > > > >>So once the album is over 6 months old its not relevant any more > > because > > > > > the > > > > > >> technology is "old"!!! > > > > > > > > > > > No an album made in the past 6 months does not get dissed. But > > using > > > > the > > > > > >"standard" off the shelf gear to make that album does. > > > > > >Thats what i mean by be an innovator. > > > > > >But course there are those musicians that will always use the

same

quoted 3 lines old

> > old > > > > > gear, > > > > > >because that is what they are comfortable with, and have no

desire

quoted 7 lines to

> to > > > > move > > > > > >forward with new gear. And also dont want to go throught the > > learning > > > > > >curve. > > > > > > > > > > >I think most musicians have made a rep with the gear they have,

and

quoted 41 lines fear

> > fear > > > > > >rejection if their style changes in the slightest, due to new > > unfamiliar > > > > > >gear they are using. > > > > > > > > > > >regards.. > > > > > > > > > > >~swamay~ > > > > > >www.mp3.com/swamay > > > > > >www.swamay.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > > -- > > > {{{5x}}} > > > :::frontin' so you don't have to::: > > > :::http://24.108.117.188 ::: > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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"EVERYONE is using them." no. =] Spencer.

quoted 98 lines From: "swamay" <swamay@home.com>

>From: "swamay" <swamay@home.com> >To: <idm@hyperreal.org>, "omz" <omz23@airmail.net> >Subject: Re: [idm] last 6 months rule >Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 17:28:16 -0700 > >well said omz.. > >analog synths have thier particular sound, as goes for acoustic >instruments. >but i find the sounds tiresome though. I have a pro-one, sh-1000, VCS >III, and use them on some of my tracks, to give it that "old school" >sound.. >but it all sounds the same to me. EVERYONE is using them. > >Analog modeling is Analog Modeling. I wonder what the future holds on how >IDM "sounds" > >But hey, who says an SH-101 wont sound like something else when processed, >right? :) > >All tools should be used, old or new. But i think we all have more options >now. We should explore those new options with inspiration on how we can >shape the "new sounds" for the future of electronic music. > >take it easy. > > >~swamay~ > >www.mp3.com/swamay >www.swamay.com > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "omz" <omz23@airmail.net> >To: <idm@hyperreal.org> >Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 5:52 PM >Subject: Re: [idm] last 6 months rule > > > > >I just want to spark ideas and provoke repsonses from those that defend > > >"standard" instruments. > > > > To say that any instrument is 'old' or 'should not be used' is > > complete rubbish. My studio is a mixture of new and old, from Pro > > Tools and Reaktor to my guitar and SH-101. Particular ideas call for > > particular sounds, and that's up to the discretion of the one who has > > the idea to make the call. > > > > Anyone who tries to tell me that I need to give up my SourceMoog, > > MS20, SH-101, or Novation Supernova needs to clean their ears out (or > > come to my studio and I would be happy to do it for you.) Yes Reaktor > > is cool. Yes MAX is cool. Even Reason is alright for what it does. > > But when I want to grab a filter or LFO knob mid-song, nothing beats > > the feel of a synth. I'll take a real Prophet-5 over its virtual > > counterpart any day. > > > > And why not use hardware samplers? All it does is free up the mac for > > more plugins, etc. I can create Reaktor sounds, Run VST/Digi/Peak > > plugins on them, then throw it into Recycle and out to the sampler > > where it can be further manipulated/filtered/eq'ed, whatever. How is > > playing a sample on your PC different than playing one triggered on > > my Roland S760? I just don't understand the difference. > > > > I think it is extremely cool that an entire studio can now reside > > inside a PC. But there's a whole world of timbres and sounds outside > > the computer that are equally as valid. If you personally don't have > > a use for them, then don't use them. But don't try to dissuade others > > from experimenting with acoustic and analog sounds, because a lot of > > us still want to hear them. > > > > -- > > > > _____ > > omz > > _____ > > > > Beautamous Loaf Recordings > > -streaming audio > > http://www.mp3.com/stations/beautamous_loaf > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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