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what techniques do you guys employ to acheive sounds in similar vein to richard devine or autechre , ive rediscovered my vaz modular and it is cool _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 07:58:00PM -0000, teardropb teardropb wrote:

quoted 2 lines what techniques do you guys employ to acheive sounds in similar vein to

> what techniques do you guys employ to acheive sounds in similar vein to > richard devine or autechre

Play with granular synthesis and lots of things modulating each other for slowly evolving sounds... Those should keep you busy for a while. -- :: atomly :: atomly@atomly.com | atomly@atdot.org | atomly@curiousnetworks.com http://www.atomly.com | http://www.mp3.com/atomly --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

There are many good max/msp patches out there that do this kind of stuff. For a generic "glitchy idm sound" try this: 64 step sequencer, delay line, resonance filter, 512 band fft, granulator, output. Use 808 or 909 drum sounds. Awwww, shit! Phatt and dsp in yo face. Also, there are some Kid606 remix tracks (i.e. the NWA remixes) where he just takes the stereo sound file and runs it through a granulator, delay line, multi-band fft and a bit cruncher...automates the fuck out of the plugins and presses play...sounds good tho. -l on 1/9/01 12:10 PM, atomly at atomly@atomly.com wrote:

quoted 6 lines On Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 07:58:00PM -0000, teardropb teardropb wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 07:58:00PM -0000, teardropb teardropb wrote: >> what techniques do you guys employ to acheive sounds in similar vein to >> richard devine or autechre > > Play with granular synthesis and lots of things modulating each other > for slowly evolving sounds... Those should keep you busy for a while.

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I think this is the reason why 'pure' IDM is gradually losing my interest. I can't remember the last IDM record that truly moved me. I take it back Arovane's Tides moved me. We all have access to the same toolset now, and derivation is running rampant, with myself being one of the contributors. I'm not sure what to think actually. I don't know whether to be thrilled or depressed with this 'paradigm shift' of music creation (or any creation involving digital tools) we ar witnessing. And I type this as I watch the Apple Keynote showcasing the sick sick new G4 powerbooks (who doesn't want one of these?), including a clip of electronic music artist BT saying something about eveyone being able to make music now... is there such a thing as too much creation? Too much content? Are any of you guys' musical passions becoming desensitized due to this media blitzkrieg? just wondering nate On Tue, 9 Jan 2001, Lee Azzarello wrote:

quoted 31 lines There are many good max/msp patches out there that do this kind of stuff.

> There are many good max/msp patches out there that do this kind of stuff. > For a generic "glitchy idm sound" try this: 64 step sequencer, delay line, > resonance filter, 512 band fft, granulator, output. Use 808 or 909 drum > sounds. Awwww, shit! Phatt and dsp in yo face. Also, there are some Kid606 > remix tracks (i.e. the NWA remixes) where he just takes the stereo sound > file and runs it through a granulator, delay line, multi-band fft and a bit > cruncher...automates the fuck out of the plugins and presses play...sounds > good tho. > > -l > > on 1/9/01 12:10 PM, atomly at atomly@atomly.com wrote: > > > On Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 07:58:00PM -0000, teardropb teardropb wrote: > >> what techniques do you guys employ to acheive sounds in similar vein to > >> richard devine or autechre > > > > Play with granular synthesis and lots of things modulating each other > > for slowly evolving sounds... Those should keep you busy for a while. > > > > -l[e^2] > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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there can never such a thing as too much creation. all it will do is accelerate the evolution of the state-of-the-art. if everybody grabs a laptop and starts sounding like autechre, somebody will eventually filter up to the top of the pile, and then everybody will start trying to sound like them... the problem arises when everybody thinks that the only way to "succeed" at making music is by finding the official autechre max patch. it's ridiculous ... the american breakbeat compilation is 2 cd's of completely undiscernable garbage. the morr music comp has like 3 tracks on it that stand out from the rest, and everything else is completely interchangable. but the instant something fresh comes along, we will all know it because everybody will recognize it. anyway ... don't blame the toolkit, blame the lack of imagination on the part of the users. -- String Theory : Digital Music for Humans http://www.enteract.com/~yoshi/index.cgi On Tue, 9 Jan 2001, n:h wrote:

quoted 64 lines I think this is the reason why 'pure' IDM is gradually losing my interest.

> > I think this is the reason why 'pure' IDM is gradually losing my interest. > > I can't remember the last IDM record that truly moved me. I take it back > Arovane's Tides moved me. > > We all have access to the same toolset now, and derivation is running > rampant, with myself being one of the contributors. I'm not sure what to > think actually. I don't know whether to be thrilled or depressed with this > 'paradigm shift' of music creation (or any creation involving digital > tools) we ar witnessing. And I type this as I watch the Apple Keynote > showcasing the sick sick new G4 powerbooks (who doesn't want one of > these?), including a clip of electronic music artist BT saying something > about eveyone being able to make music now... > > is there such a thing as too much creation? Too much content? Are any of > you guys' musical passions becoming desensitized due to this media > blitzkrieg? > > just wondering > > nate > > > On Tue, 9 Jan 2001, Lee Azzarello wrote: > > > There are many good max/msp patches out there that do this kind of stuff. > > For a generic "glitchy idm sound" try this: 64 step sequencer, delay line, > > resonance filter, 512 band fft, granulator, output. Use 808 or 909 drum > > sounds. Awwww, shit! Phatt and dsp in yo face. Also, there are some Kid606 > > remix tracks (i.e. the NWA remixes) where he just takes the stereo sound > > file and runs it through a granulator, delay line, multi-band fft and a bit > > cruncher...automates the fuck out of the plugins and presses play...sounds > > good tho. > > > > -l > > > > on 1/9/01 12:10 PM, atomly at atomly@atomly.com wrote: > > > > > On Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 07:58:00PM -0000, teardropb teardropb wrote: > > >> what techniques do you guys employ to acheive sounds in similar vein to > > >> richard devine or autechre > > > > > > Play with granular synthesis and lots of things modulating each other > > > for slowly evolving sounds... Those should keep you busy for a while. > > > > > > > > -l[e^2] > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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On Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 04:07:20PM -0500, n:h wrote:

quoted 12 lines We all have access to the same toolset now, and derivation is running

> We all have access to the same toolset now, and derivation is running > rampant, with myself being one of the contributors. I'm not sure what to > think actually. I don't know whether to be thrilled or depressed with this > 'paradigm shift' of music creation (or any creation involving digital > tools) we ar witnessing. And I type this as I watch the Apple Keynote > showcasing the sick sick new G4 powerbooks (who doesn't want one of > these?), including a clip of electronic music artist BT saying something > about eveyone being able to make music now... > > is there such a thing as too much creation? Too much content? Are any of > you guys' musical passions becoming desensitized due to this media > blitzkrieg?

This is the most elitist idea I've heard in a long time... You're essentially saying that only rich people should be able to make music (I know that you may not have intended it this way, but that's how it's coming out). People made all these same arguments when cheap 4 track recorders came out and I'd say that those only served to help out music. You think punk or indie would've ever happened if bands couldn't record themselves? I will put this theory forward: As the monetary level of entry to music decreases, the worst music will be worse than previously, but the best music will also be better than previously... I can put up with having two bad Autechre ripoffs if it means that somebody as revolutionary as Autechre also comes along at some point. -- :: atomly :: atomly@atomly.com | atomly@atdot.org | atomly@curiousnetworks.com http://www.atomly.com | http://www.mp3.com/atomly --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Not sure where you get that I imply 'that only rich people should be able to make music'. I did not mean to come off as elitist, the people on this list who know me know that's the farthest thing from my mind. In fact I am a huge propenent of the notion of putting the means of creation within everyone's reach. The point I was trying to make was that *there is simply so much to hear, see and experience*, in all media right now, I can't keep up. What's more the ratio of orginality vs. derivation (with reagrd to digital art) is snowballing in favor if derivation. And yes the argument of 'there will always be crap, filter it to find the gems' is a valid one. But I feel like more and more of our intuitive creation processes are being broken down into mathematical formulas, which I just don't 'feel' the way I did when I heard the first IDM type records 10 years ago. Who knows, perhaps I am just tired of IDM and need new highs... Part of my frustration is also based on the fact that as an art director working in the web industry, I see the exact same thing happening in that visual medium. Everyone craps their pants about the funkstorung and Schematic web sites, when both of them use every Flash formula in the book; formulas, like Max/MSP patches, which can downloaded from the web and used. All those little tricks on Funkstrong.com were taken from Josh Davis @ praystation.com. WHat's more, Josh freely distributes all these scripts, which is cool (going back to the whole idea of sharing/power to the people/whatever); in fact I used the dragg-able palette script in my own site! But the truth is, while I appreciate the technical aspects of funkstorung.com, or barneys.com, or one9ine.com (or any of the dozens of these types of sites), they don't *move* me. www.elixirstudios.com is about the only one of these sites I am truly moved by, because it is so smartly built, the concepts are just as strong as the execution...he's one of the gems I suppose sorry to go off on a web design tangent... I guess I am suffering from little 'digital arthritis' (anything that can be digital will be), and am not entirely convinced that all this 'sharing' is really helping things, at least in terms of making art with staying power, even when I am guilty of being one of the perpetrators... nate On Tue, 9 Jan 2001, atomly wrote:

quoted 41 lines On Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 04:07:20PM -0500, n:h wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 04:07:20PM -0500, n:h wrote: > > We all have access to the same toolset now, and derivation is running > > rampant, with myself being one of the contributors. I'm not sure what to > > think actually. I don't know whether to be thrilled or depressed with this > > 'paradigm shift' of music creation (or any creation involving digital > > tools) we ar witnessing. And I type this as I watch the Apple Keynote > > showcasing the sick sick new G4 powerbooks (who doesn't want one of > > these?), including a clip of electronic music artist BT saying something > > about eveyone being able to make music now... > > > > is there such a thing as too much creation? Too much content? Are any of > > you guys' musical passions becoming desensitized due to this media > > blitzkrieg? > > This is the most elitist idea I've heard in a long time... You're > essentially saying that only rich people should be able to make music > (I know that you may not have intended it this way, but that's how it's > coming out). > > People made all these same arguments when cheap 4 track recorders came > out and I'd say that those only served to help out music. You think > punk or indie would've ever happened if bands couldn't record > themselves? > > I will put this theory forward: As the monetary level of entry to music > decreases, the worst music will be worse than previously, but the best > music will also be better than previously... I can put up with having > two bad Autechre ripoffs if it means that somebody as revolutionary as > Autechre also comes along at some point. > > -- > :: atomly :: > > atomly@atomly.com | atomly@atdot.org | atomly@curiousnetworks.com > http://www.atomly.com | http://www.mp3.com/atomly > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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it's exactly the same problem as the 10,000 jokers with electric guitars in their garages, wailing away trying to be the next nirvana or limp bizkit or whatever ... once the tools are readily available people will start picking them up and trying to become craftsmen. it's easy as hell to download a granulation patch and start making a racket and "sound like autechre" but the key to real Quality (in the Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenence sense of the word) is not the tools, but the creative impulse behind their use. If you just try to sound like Autechre, chances are you will come up with a reasonable facsimile of an Autechre sound. But the thing that people should remember when they are trying to be "the next Autechre" is that Autechre did not become the touchstone of IDM by trying to be "the next Aphex Twin" ... they came at it with a completely individual approach and a distinctive sound. Anyway, with regard to filtering for Quality: that's what this list is for... when "the next Autechre" does finally appear, you'll probably hear about it here. -- String Theory : Digital Music for Humans http://www.enteract.com/~yoshi/index.cgi --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

good points Josh, I guess that's what's kept me here all these years! happy listening... nate On Tue, 9 Jan 2001, Josh Davison wrote:

quoted 24 lines it's exactly the same problem as the 10,000 jokers with electric guitars

> it's exactly the same problem as the 10,000 jokers with electric guitars > in their garages, wailing away trying to be the next nirvana or limp > bizkit or whatever ... once the tools are readily available people will > start picking them up and trying to become craftsmen. > > it's easy as hell to download a granulation patch and start making a > racket and "sound like autechre" but the key to real Quality (in the Zen > and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenence sense of the word) is not the tools, > but the creative impulse behind their use. If you just try to sound like > Autechre, chances are you will come up with a reasonable facsimile of an > Autechre sound. But the thing that people should remember when they are > trying to be "the next Autechre" is that Autechre did not become the > touchstone of IDM by trying to be "the next Aphex Twin" ... they came at > it with a completely individual approach and a distinctive sound. > > Anyway, with regard to filtering for Quality: that's what this list is > for... when "the next Autechre" does finally appear, you'll probably hear > about it here. > > -- > String Theory : Digital Music for Humans > http://www.enteract.com/~yoshi/index.cgi > >

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"n:h" <nate@toshoklabs.com> wrote:

quoted 1 line I think this is the reason why 'pure' IDM is gradually losing my interest.

> I think this is the reason why 'pure' IDM is gradually losing my interest.

quoted 2 lines I can't remember the last IDM record that truly moved me. I take it back

> I can't remember the last IDM record that truly moved me. I take it back > Arovane's Tides moved me.

If you listen to IDM to be emotionally moved, might I respectfully suggest that you check out other genres of music. I can't speak for the rest of the folks here, but to me emotion just isn't the point of IDM, and complaining about it is even more pointless. You may as well criticize Gregorian chant for its lack of rhythm, Rap for its lack of grammar, or Punk for its lack of harmony. The Arovanes and Bolas are the exceptions, not the core of IDM. It's the sounds and rhythms that make it IDM, not the fine melodic lines. So much of the criticism on this list is like asking why oranges can't be red like apples; the existence of a few red oranges doesn't make the criticism any more valid. -Ed --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

At 02:47 PM 1/9/2001 -0800, Ed Hall wrote:

quoted 18 lines "n:h" <nate@toshoklabs.com> wrote:

>"n:h" <nate@toshoklabs.com> wrote: > > I think this is the reason why 'pure' IDM is gradually losing my interest. > > > I can't remember the last IDM record that truly moved me. I take it back > > Arovane's Tides moved me. > >If you listen to IDM to be emotionally moved, might I respectfully suggest >that you check out other genres of music. I can't speak for the rest of >the folks here, but to me emotion just isn't the point of IDM, and complaining >about it is even more pointless. You may as well criticize Gregorian chant >for its lack of rhythm, Rap for its lack of grammar, or Punk for its lack >of harmony. > >The Arovanes and Bolas are the exceptions, not the core of IDM. It's the >sounds and rhythms that make it IDM, not the fine melodic lines. So much >of the criticism on this list is like asking why oranges can't be red like >apples; the existence of a few red oranges doesn't make the criticism any >more valid.

i respectfully disagree, but only a little. i think a lot of the "emotionless" idm is intentionally "colder" and "emotionless" as its emotion. i personally find a void of emotion to be sometimes as emotional as, well, very emotional tracks. plus, people get different emotions triggered in different ways. sure, there's no doubt that most people hear a tinge of melancholy in boards of canada, but some people prefer colder and more "empty" music to the "lush" music. i think this ties into the other bit, about "too much idm." previously, when there was very little, i think there was a lot of "wow" factor associated with "idm." which served as the emotional bit that people liked. now there's so much, that you really do have a choice in what you can listen to. before, it was, what, aphex twin, autechre, black dog, and other warp artists, with a few scattered people doing things that were similar (and subsequently making the genre as big as it is now). i think it's just that we've heard all of it before, so the "wow" factor is lost, and we look for something more. which is when we realize that most of it is still *just music*. cool music, but still only music. ah well. too many "quotes" :D then there's the "boring" idm. there's a lot more of this now too. but there's a lot more "idm" in general, so that's to be expected. cheers, /derek - - - - - Alice could not help her lips curing up into a smile as she began: "Do you know, I always thought Unicorns were fabulous monsters, too! I never saw one alive before!" "Well, now that we HAVE seen each other," said the Unicorn, "if you'll believe in me, I'll believe in you. Is that a bargain?" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 10 lines is there such a thing as too much creation? Too much

> is there such a thing as too much creation? Too much > content? Are any of > you guys' musical passions becoming desensitized due > to this media > blitzkrieg? > > just wondering > > nate >

I think it's great that anyone can do this now...it'll stop making everyone be so elitist about this for one thing(haha, yeah right)...and although it is bringing about a lot of crap music, it is also making available the equipment to people who are brilliant and would otherwise not have the chance to get their sounds out...I think everyone should have a computer and the ability to make music...we'd probably be better off in the long run... josh23 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 4 lines is there such a thing as too much creation? Too much

> > > is there such a thing as too much creation? Too much > > content? Are any of you guys' musical passions becoming > > desensitized due to this media blitzkrieg?

If you only concern yourself with what is really, really good, it narrows it down considerably. When I used to go to auditions (in a past life as a 'cellist) it used to make me really nervous. Then my mom said "only worry about the kids that are good." And suddenly I was only competing with 2 or 3 kids instead of a hundred. The fact that there are about a billion more people on the planet than when I was young means necessarily that there are a couple hundred musical geniuses out there more than there were then. That's a manageable number. It gets narrowed down even further when you consider only the musical geniuses who are into electronic music. If you want to know who SHOULD be depressed, imagine the people at Sonic Foundry and Steinberg, etc. They go to work every day knowing that they're making it easier for people to make really horrible music. Not only that, they can't stay in business unless they sell thousands of copies to people who are going to just make total shit. But even if people are bad musicians, the enjoyment they get out of trying can't be discounted. Perfectly nice, decent people make bad music. As a friend of my dad used to say "Anything worth doing is worth doing badly." This guy was an ace percussionist and conductor who had perhaps the worlds largest collection of stolen orchestral scores, but that's a story for another day. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 17 lines I think this is the reason why 'pure' IDM is gradually losing my interest.

>I think this is the reason why 'pure' IDM is gradually losing my interest. > >I can't remember the last IDM record that truly moved me. I take it back >Arovane's Tides moved me. > >We all have access to the same toolset now, and derivation is running >rampant, with myself being one of the contributors. I'm not sure what to >think actually. I don't know whether to be thrilled or depressed with this >'paradigm shift' of music creation (or any creation involving digital >tools) we ar witnessing. And I type this as I watch the Apple Keynote >showcasing the sick sick new G4 powerbooks (who doesn't want one of >these?), including a clip of electronic music artist BT saying something >about eveyone being able to make music now... > >is there such a thing as too much creation? Too much content? Are any of >you guys' musical passions becoming desensitized due to this media >blitzkrieg?

http://www.apple.com - SICK SICK SICK! That notebook is fucking sexy as all hell. No wonder the price on the dual 500 went down 1000 bucks at the beginning of the year. I wonder what they got in desktops. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Whats a hubis generator? on 1/9/01 4:26 PM, idm-digest-help@hyperreal.org at idm-digest-help@hyperreal.org wrote:

quoted 28 lines Subject: Re: [idm] back to topic:[idm] kyma/autechre/richard devine

> Subject: Re: [idm] back to topic:[idm] kyma/autechre/richard devine > Message-ID: <B680CF9A.3E37%roswell@alumni.antioch-college.edu> > > I believe the Macintosh version of this is the IAC driver for OMS...incase > anyone's wondering. > > -l > > on 1/9/01 2:11 PM, ff g at glassmuseum@yahoo.com wrote: > >> ive heard this is the technique richard devine uses: >> sequencer (cubase or any other)--->hubis >> loopback--->reaktor >> >> you get any midi sequencer to trigger different >> samples in reaktor. Each of these samples are running >> thru different crazy invented effects, thus allowing >> the sample to become any sound. These sounds are >> getting triggered by hits on the sequencer, making >> them sound on time. Its an amazing technique that ive >> tried before and i plan to employ once i get a better >> comp. Hubis loopback is just an internal midi >> connection device, which allows you to sync 2 >> different programs within a computer. Its free on the >> net. (search for hubis loopback) >> >> d >>

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Oh, duh. I guess I should read the message Im replying to. MIDI yokes are pretty general and it doesnt matter what you use. Yamaha makes one too, I thnk I've used that one in the past. It's a real simple deal, you dont need an certain type, really. Ian / delphi --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

n:h wrote:

quoted 1 line I think this is the reason why 'pure' IDM is gradually losing my interest.

> I think this is the reason why 'pure' IDM is gradually losing my interest.

Man, I completely agree. In fact I'm coming to the conclusion recently that I don't really like IDM or have grown not to like it in the last year or 2. I still think all the key figures like Aphex, Autechre, Squarepusher and BOC make great music, but there is so much derivative and unexceptional 2nd/3rd/etc. generation stuff out there right now which just leaves me unimpressed and just simply bored. IDM seems really stagnant to me at the moment and desperately in need of someone to kick it up its arse. Man, we really need some new Autechre and Aphex records ! The sad thing is when at the end of the year I try to come up with one of these top 10 lists and I have a really hard time coming up with any records that I can say I really like. It was especially hard this year and I'm a really active record buyer. I guess the problem is me really. My tastes usually change pretty radically like every 3-4 years after ingesting so much of one thing that it starts to make me sick. Or maybe it's just information overload and getting desensitized. Too many labels/records and not enough quality control.

quoted 2 lines I can't remember the last IDM record that truly moved me. I take it back

> I can't remember the last IDM record that truly moved me. I take it back > Arovane's Tides moved me.

One of the only IDM records I enjoyed in 2000 and even on this one the influences are rather obvious. You don't care... Andrei --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 4 lines And I type this as I watch the Apple Keynote

> And I type this as I watch the Apple Keynote > showcasing the sick sick new G4 powerbooks (who doesn't want one of > these?), including a clip of electronic music artist BT saying something > about eveyone being able to make music now...

Why the fuck would;d you want to listen to music if everyone could make it? It just seems absurd to me; if anyone can make music, it seems to devalue the good stuff out there. Or maybe it just puts more poop in the pond. Just a thought. CRT Charles/CFOM _________________________________________ CFOM: 411A highland avenue, #312 Somerville, MA 02144 ph. 617.388.7466 http://www.cfom-music.com out now: "Boston not London: Volume One" CFOMCD005 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 5 lines there can never such a thing as too much creation. all it will do is

> there can never such a thing as too much creation. all it will do is > accelerate the evolution of the state-of-the-art. if everybody grabs a > laptop and starts sounding like autechre, somebody will eventually filter > up to the top of the pile, and then everybody will start trying to sound > like them...

Amen. Say it!

quoted 5 lines the problem arises when everybody thinks that the only way to "succeed" at

> the problem arises when everybody thinks that the only way to "succeed" at > making music is by finding the official autechre max patch. it's > ridiculous ... the american breakbeat compilation is 2 cd's of completely > undiscernable garbage. the morr music comp has like 3 tracks on it that > stand out from the rest, and everything else is completely interchangable.

Yeah, the morr comp left me kind of cool. The Phonem track is happening but alot of the other stuff went through me like mineral oil.

quoted 3 lines but the instant something fresh comes along, we will all know it because

> but the instant something fresh comes along, we will all know it because > everybody will recognize it. anyway ... don't blame the toolkit, blame > the lack of imagination on the part of the users.

Truly. it is a poor craftsman who blames their tools. No amount of SP will hide you from the fact that you suck. This from a guy who is about to trash his live set because it sound foully derivative - 4 nights before a show! Charles/CFOM _________________________________________ CFOM: 411A highland avenue, #312 Somerville, MA 02144 ph. 617.388.7466 http://www.cfom-music.com out now: "Boston not London: Volume One" CFOMCD005 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

CAN YOU SAY IGNANT? At 06:13 PM 1/9/2001 -0500, n:h wrote:

quoted 93 lines Not sure where you get that I imply 'that only rich people should be able

>Not sure where you get that I imply 'that only rich people should be able >to make music'. > >I did not mean to come off as elitist, the people on this list who know me >know that's the farthest thing from my mind. In fact I am a huge propenent >of the notion of putting the means of creation within everyone's reach. > >The point I was trying to make was that *there is simply so much to hear, >see and experience*, in all media right now, I can't keep up. What's more >the ratio of orginality vs. derivation (with reagrd to digital art) is >snowballing in favor if derivation. And yes the argument of 'there will >always be crap, filter it to find the gems' is a valid one. But I feel >like more and more of our intuitive creation processes are being broken >down into mathematical formulas, which I just don't 'feel' the way I did >when I heard the first IDM type records 10 years ago. Who knows, perhaps I >am just tired of IDM and need new highs... > >Part of my frustration is also based on the fact that as an art director >working in the web industry, I see the exact same thing happening in that >visual medium. Everyone craps their pants about the funkstorung and >Schematic web sites, when both of them use every Flash formula in the >book; formulas, like Max/MSP patches, which can downloaded from the web >and used. All those little tricks on Funkstrong.com were taken from Josh >Davis @ praystation.com. WHat's more, Josh freely distributes all these >scripts, which is cool (going back to the whole idea of sharing/power to >the people/whatever); in fact I used the dragg-able palette script in my >own site! But the truth is, while I appreciate the technical aspects of >funkstorung.com, or barneys.com, or one9ine.com (or any of the dozens of >these types of sites), they don't *move* me. > >www.elixirstudios.com is about the only one of these sites I am truly >moved by, because it is so smartly built, the concepts are just as strong >as the execution...he's one of the gems I suppose > >sorry to go off on a web design tangent... > >I guess I am suffering from little 'digital arthritis' (anything that can >be digital will be), and am not entirely convinced that all this 'sharing' >is really helping things, at least in terms of making art with staying >power, even when I am guilty of being one of the perpetrators... > >nate > > > On Tue, 9 Jan 2001, atomly wrote: > > > On Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 04:07:20PM -0500, n:h wrote: > > > We all have access to the same toolset now, and derivation is running > > > rampant, with myself being one of the contributors. I'm not sure what to > > > think actually. I don't know whether to be thrilled or depressed with > this > > > 'paradigm shift' of music creation (or any creation involving digital > > > tools) we ar witnessing. And I type this as I watch the Apple Keynote > > > showcasing the sick sick new G4 powerbooks (who doesn't want one of > > > these?), including a clip of electronic music artist BT saying something > > > about eveyone being able to make music now... > > > > > > is there such a thing as too much creation? Too much content? Are any of > > > you guys' musical passions becoming desensitized due to this media > > > blitzkrieg? > > > > This is the most elitist idea I've heard in a long time... You're > > essentially saying that only rich people should be able to make music > > (I know that you may not have intended it this way, but that's how it's > > coming out). > > > > People made all these same arguments when cheap 4 track recorders came > > out and I'd say that those only served to help out music. You think > > punk or indie would've ever happened if bands couldn't record > > themselves? > > > > I will put this theory forward: As the monetary level of entry to music > > decreases, the worst music will be worse than previously, but the best > > music will also be better than previously... I can put up with having > > two bad Autechre ripoffs if it means that somebody as revolutionary as > > Autechre also comes along at some point. > > > > -- > > :: atomly :: > > > > atomly@atomly.com | atomly@atdot.org | atomly@curiousnetworks.com > > http://www.atomly.com | http://www.mp3.com/atomly > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

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quoted 7 lines At 05:49 PM 1/9/2001 -0800, sprek@soundmangle.com wrote:

>At 05:49 PM 1/9/2001 -0800, sprek@soundmangle.com wrote: >I think that tutorials for Flash are a godsend, they help me to >understand the creation process and therefore add my own creativity >and design to those procedures. As Leekon has done with the >Schematic and Funkstörung sites(not to mention the BetaBodega site >http://www.betabodega.de/). Its hard to be original in flash with >action scripting seeing how most of it has already been done.

emm, has "it's hard to be original" ever been an excuse in the arts ? the possibilities for creativity (and art needn't be anything else) are always infinite. and what with all this talk of "i'm too cool for mediocre music", this is precisely the attitude that makes, well, art that isn't particularly original. now i don't want to rag on unoriginal art--although it does not seem to be very important to culture, it is incredibly valuable to recognizing, nay, creating a scene/movement (autechre alone are musical outcasts--autechre with ae-clones are pioneers). who are all you people complaining that every musician can't be brilliant ? great, if everybody in the idm scene were as talented (and prolific) as aphex, then there would be about 50 top-quality tracks written every day. and your complaint is that you sift through too much stuff ? witness, as normally excellent works become a nuissance. it happens quite easily. what, then, is 'bad' about 'bad music' ? if you don't like unoriginal tracks, unsubscribe from this list and wait till someone in the scene rises out of it. the whole point of a scene is that you stick with this style, you listen to as many of its artists as you can, and you help the good ones rise. it's a big job. well, now that i've totally ruined the definition of 'bad'-- ! .af. ps; if you liked the post, you'll LOVE the soundtrack ! mp3.com/aeflo thanks. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

AAHA HA HA HA HA ! ! ! yeah i wanna copy autechre ! yeah i have wet dreams about richard devine ! yeah i shamelessly refuse to be innovative cause im happy with deriviation of a good, dense style of IDM, muwaaahahaha ! die creative fiends die !! *tisk*tisk* Wake up ! i and many others have a love of machines as well as the love of music .....you guys are so fucking funny, you all crack me up with your posts......please keep the flames coming, i find them very amusing :-D Annnny way, now onto the thread, when i asked how richard devine or autechre make their sounds, i was not merely interested in being the next autechre wunderkhide. i am just as interested in how things work, for example how in the heck did autechre come up with 'that' sound in the track 'vose in'. particularly i WANT to know how can a human being cram so much detail in 5 minutes of audio ( im reffering to figuring out richard devine's remix of come to daddy and autechre's 'pencha'). its like figuring our a never ending jigsaw puzzle. similarly, as hard as i may try i cannot figure out the exact structure/beggining and end of elements, in richard devines work. this is why i have been listening to their songs with childlike facination for so long now. i find the world of insanely layered glitch pop so intruiging that i want to know how they made it. i mean, i try to emulate it just to have the satisfaction of figuring out how they acheived those sounds. and ofcourse, music is all about permutation, you "have" to aspire to sound like your heroes, thats where everyone begins if your not being hypocrytical. im teathering off into some other conversation so ill bring this thread back on topic. i invite all of the list members to share their ideas on how richard devine and autechre arive at their sounds. i find the process of pitch shifting/granulation/ and then layering sounds to be pretty close, but still im soooo curious on a side note, all of you should join #reaktor on dalnet, as we have discusions on kayma/max-msp/reaktor and other various forms of (dsp/glitch)synthesis and techniques. and yeah..my fav artists at the moment are richard devine/arovane/ michael fakesch / electric sheep and autechre(god bless them) <P.S> this is for all you elitists posers that had posted, i could have been really rude, but i will not give you the satisfaction, i will keep it to my self _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 5 lines and yeah..my fav artists at the moment are richard

> > and yeah..my fav artists at the moment are richard > devine/arovane/ michael > fakesch / electric sheep and autechre(god bless them) >

What's up with Electric Sheep? Their vynil only album was amazing but that was so long ago... 8( Alien btw. V/A Squadron (Merck Records) is awesome! it includes Lexaunculpt, Fizzarum, Novel 23, Ambidextrous and many more... Nice mix of crunches and melody. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 5 lines there can never such a thing as too much creation. all it will do is

> there can never such a thing as too much creation. all it will do is > accelerate the evolution of the state-of-the-art. if everybody grabs a > laptop and starts sounding like autechre, somebody will eventually > filter up to the top of the pile, and then everybody will start trying > to sound like them...

quoted 6 lines the problem arises when everybody thinks that the only way to "succeed"

> the problem arises when everybody thinks that the only way to "succeed" > at making music is by finding the official autechre max patch. it's > ridiculous ... the american breakbeat compilation is 2 cd's of > completely undiscernable garbage. the morr music comp has like 3 tracks > on it that stand out from the rest, and everything else is completely > interchangable.

Exactly - There are good and bad uses of new technology. It's very easy to point the finger at "DSP jackoff technology", but really it's nothing more than unimaginative artists. I'm glad Max/MSP/Reactor came around just so I could listen to music in the vein of Cathars & Microstoria. Even if dozens adopt the technology who I don't care for - I just won't buy their releases. (not so hard) Re: "Putting the Morr.." The fact that the only artist I could recognize from the Morr Music comp was Solvent - and even there were one or two I thought were also Solvent - was dissapointing. I enjoy a few Morr artists greatly (Fleischmann, etc.) but the comp tracks really weren't their strongest. IMO, the 2xCD was really a wash compared to other recent strong compilations, eg Sonig. Andrew -| Andrew Schrock | aschrock@cs.brandeis.edu |- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 8 lines is there such a thing as too much creation? Too much content? Are any of

> > is there such a thing as too much creation? Too much content? Are any of > > you guys' musical passions becoming desensitized due to this media > > blitzkrieg? > > This is the most elitist idea I've heard in a long time... You're > essentially saying that only rich people should be able to make music > (I know that you may not have intended it this way, but that's how it's > coming out).

i am by no means rich.. and i totally agree with nate on this one.. i personally steal (*gasp*) 98.8% of all the stuff i use to make music.. this is fine in my opinion.. since i never make a freakin dime from it.. and the stuff i do really use (hardware mostly) i buy.. but.. when a friend of mine says.. "hey.. i want to write music too" i show them how to use the tools.. and tell them to buy it if they really like it.. most of my friends i give tools too can't write for shit.. and never will. yes.. they may get a track or 2 put out on little crappy comp.. yes they may end up being played on your desktop speakers from mp3.com.. making it even harder to ever find something enjoyable on that mostrous site.. but at least people are being creative.. at least people are *trying* to put emotions into sound.. it's better than having random people hitting their dogs.. or drinking themselves into oblivion.. i for one find writing music very theraputic.. and helpful in a very personal way.. if other people like my stuff.. cool.. if not.. i'll never stop writing.. and the easier the tools are to get.. the more likely i am to write.. aaron systorm technologies www.systorm.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I knew this "emotionless" comment was going to start something. Well all I can say is certain tracks by Gimmik, Funckarma, Lackluster, Proem, John Tejada have all brought a tear to my eye over the last few weeks. It's exactly what I look for in music, and it's something I'm far more concerned about than whether it's IDM or not. Strangely enough I seem to spend a lot of my time hanging out here though. Ross. np: John Beltran - Nitric (very emotional indeed) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I agree with you to an extent, but there has always been loads of "derivative" music. Even with all of the readily available digital tools, it's still not about what you have or who you got it from, but what you do with it. n:h wrote on 9/1/01 5:16 pm:

quoted 190 lines Not sure where you get that

> >Not sure where you get that >I imply 'that only rich people >should be able to make >music'. > >I did not mean to come off as >elitist, the people on this list >who know me know that's >the farthest thing from my >mind. In fact I am a huge >propenent of the notion of >putting the means of >creation within everyone's >reach. > >The point I was trying to >make was that *there is >simply so much to hear, see >and experience*, in all >media right now, I can't keep >up. What's more the ratio of >orginality vs. derivation >(with reagrd to digital art) is >snowballing in favor if >derivation. And yes the >argument of 'there will >always be crap, filter it to >find the gems' is a valid one. >But I feel like more and more >of our intuitive creation >processes are being broken >down into mathematical >formulas, which I just don't >'feel' the way I did when I >heard the first IDM type >records 10 years ago. Who >knows, perhaps I am just >tired of IDM and need new >highs... > >Part of my frustration is >also based on the fact that >as an art director working in >the web industry, I see the >exact same thing happening >in that visual medium. >Everyone craps their pants >about the funkstorung and >Schematic web sites, when >both of them use every >Flash formula in the book; >formulas, like Max/MSP >patches, which can >downloaded from the web >and used. All those little >tricks on Funkstrong.com >were taken from Josh Davis >@ praystation.com. WHat's >more, Josh freely >distributes all these scripts, >which is cool (going back to >the whole idea of >sharing/power to the >people/whatever); in fact I >used the dragg-able palette >script in my own site! But the >truth is, while I appreciate >the technical aspects of >funkstorung.com, or >barneys.com, or >one9ine.com (or any of the >dozens of these types of >sites), they don't *move* >me. > >www.elixirstudios.com is >about the only one of these >sites I am truly moved by, >because it is so smartly built, >the concepts are just as >strong as the >execution...he's one of the >gems I suppose > >sorry to go off on a web >design tangent... > >I guess I am suffering from >little 'digital arthritis' >(anything that can be digital >will be), and am not entirely >convinced that all this >'sharing' is really helping >things, at least in terms of >making art with staying >power, even when I am guilty >of being one of the >perpetrators... > >nate > > > On Tue, 9 Jan 2001, atomly >wrote: > >> On Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at >04:07:20PM -0500, n:h wrote: >> > We all have access to the >same toolset now, and >derivation is running >> > rampant, with myself >being one of the >contributors. I'm not sure >what to >> > think actually. I don't >know whether to be thrilled >or depressed with this >> > 'paradigm shift' of music >creation (or any creation >involving digital >> > tools) we ar witnessing. >And I type this as I watch the >Apple Keynote >> > showcasing the sick sick >new G4 powerbooks (who >doesn't want one of >> > these?), including a clip >of electronic music artist BT >saying something >> > about eveyone being >able to make music now... >> > >> > is there such a thing as >too much creation? Too >much content? Are any of >> > you guys' musical >passions becoming >desensitized due to this >media >> > blitzkrieg? >> >> This is the most elitist idea >I've heard in a long time... >You're essentially saying >that only rich people should >be able to make music >> (I know that you may not >have intended it this way, >but that's how it's coming >out). >> >> People made all these >same arguments when cheap >4 track recorders came out >and I'd say that those only >served to help out music. >You think punk or indie >would've ever happened if >bands couldn't record >themselves? >> >> I will put this theory >forward: As the monetary >level of entry to music >decreases, the worst music >will be worse than >previously, but the best >music will also be better than >previously... I can put up >with having two bad >Autechre ripoffs if it means >that somebody as >revolutionary as Autechre >also comes along at some >point. >> >> -- >> :: atomly :: >> >> atomly@atomly.com | >atomly@atdo > >******************* >****** >This e-mail has been >truncated. The entire e-mail >is available in your E-Mail >application. >

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Josh Davison wrote:

quoted 4 lines the problem arises when everybody thinks that the only way to "succeed" at

> the problem arises when everybody thinks that the only way to "succeed" at > making music is by finding the official autechre max patch. it's > ridiculous ... the american breakbeat compilation is 2 cd's of completely > undiscernable garbage.

Well, if that comp sounds like indiscernible garbage to you I don't think it's because all the artists on it are trying to sound like Autechre or because they're all using the same gear as Autechre since the comp features such a wide variety of acts. Plus I know the set-ups a bunch of the people on the comp use and I can tell you that a very small percentage of them use Max/MSP, Logic and/or Nords. I mean I kind of agree with you that not much on the set stands out, but I think there are some good tracks amongst all the uninspired/mediocre material. I'm pretty fond of the Matmos, Slicker, Lexaunculpt, Blitter and Hrvatski tracks. The Slicker track in particular I think is very well done and the Blitter track is pretty unique. I think the Electric Company, Solenoid, Kid 606 and Phthalocyanine tracks are also nice. To be honest I don't think the set really has much of an Autechre flavor to it at all. There are a lot of artists on it with very singular approaches. I think this comp had good intentions, it covers _a lot_ of ground (29 acts), but what do you expect when you ask people to send you tracks and they're not really compensated in any way for them ? This is sort of a general problem with a lot of IDM comps coming out on these micro labels. People aren't gonna send you their better tracks when they have to spend time creating these tracks and they don't get rewarded for that work. It's like why not just save your good tracks for your album ? Just like the Morr comp you mention I think this set would have made very nice single disc collection, but Klangkrieg is charging the price of a single cd so it's all the same in the end I guess.

quoted 2 lines the morr music comp has like 3 tracks on it that

> the morr music comp has like 3 tracks on it that > stand out from the rest, and everything else is completely interchangable.

I agree and I'd say the same about the "Neurokinetic" comp on Toytronic. I also didn't find much of interest on the "Lily Of The Valley" comp on Schematic (except for Ritchie Devine's track) or the "Frente 57" comp on Beta Bodega. Although I thought the Schematic comp was generally of higher quality than a lot of other IDM comps from 2000. The Alt. Frequencies 4 comp on Worm Interface wasn't much to get excited about either. Andrei --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 2 lines I thought the Schematic comp was generally of higher quality than a lot of other IDM

> I thought the Schematic comp was generally of higher quality than a lot of other IDM > comps from 2000. The Alt. Frequencies 4 comp on Worm Interface wasn't much to get

the Sonig comp, Lilly of the Valley and the Slicker Remixes were really the only comps that came out in 2000 that got me juiced. Lyricist Lounge 2 had a couple okay things on it too, but it doesn't sound a thing like autechre so i won't even mention it :) josh -- String Theory : Digital Music for Humans http://www.enteract.com/~yoshi/index.cgi --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Blah Blah. BLAH BLAH BLAH! BLAH BLAH? Blah! blah blah blah blah blah. Someone mention Nazis so this thread can die! kent williams -- kent@avalon.net http://www.cornwarning.com -- Iowa's First Techno Record Label http://www.mp3.com/chaircrusher -- tunes --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org