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whoa, got to throw my hat into the ring on this one. "they havent changed their formulas at all"? HUH? Did you buy EP7? Did you buy lp5? neither are anything alike or anything like amber or Tri, hince why they "alienated" fans. If you want to talk about people who havnet changed formulas, talk about Plaid or something...not Autechre/ they are thinking of music in ways that alot of people cant grasp yet (sort of like what Jenkinson is doing w/his stuff). as for aphex, windowlicker is funny. the track isnt that super, but it is rather good. the "complicated formula" track is rad as shit. and i dont think that he made such an expensive video (for electronic cats its expensive) if he thought the track was shit. it was an obvious play on his "cross-over" appeal and possibly the stupid shit rap videos and all of their glorious "bling-bling"-edg (although,in truth, the Roots beat him to this concept with the "what they do" video. that is a funny video). anyway, just wanted to verbal-slap you for saying that AE havent changed formulas. Benine "my escalator stops for outpt" _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

i really didn't wanna jump into this, but... On Thu, 14 Dec 2000, Benjamin McDonald wrote:

quoted 3 lines "they havent changed their formulas at all"? HUH? Did you buy EP7? Did

> "they havent changed their formulas at all"? HUH? Did you buy EP7? Did > you buy lp5? neither are anything alike or anything like amber or Tri, > hince why they "alienated" fans.

the only reason EP7 alienated me as a fan is because it sounded like a step backwards from LP5, even from tri rep. it's too basic-sounding for me... micah stupak /"\ laerm@soulfood.org ascii ribbon campaign \ / international bright young kook against HTML email X / \ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

--------Original message--------

quoted 1 line the thing (formula) i'm referring to that Ae can never seem to change is

>the thing (formula) i'm referring to that Ae can never seem to change is

the

quoted 6 lines constant LOOP!

>constant LOOP! >Seem like almost everything they do, even LP5 is creat a killer loop and >then edit that loop >and re-edit and re edit and then record all that as a 5-8minute track. > >Plaid, they write music with structures more like pop musicians do

begining,

quoted 6 lines middle, end. (like a rock band may write verse-chorus, verse chorus, verse-

>middle, end. (like a rock band may write verse-chorus, verse chorus, verse- >chorus, chorus, chorus, chorus) Plaid will write an intro, nice harmony, >dancey rhythm, break change in mood, return to harmony/melody. >Ae loop loop looop loop looop loop. >I like Ae, but to me they don't push the envolope like the majority of the >list think they do. Their music is distinct, sounds darker than most

artists

quoted 6 lines imho, has it's own rhythmic uniqueness, but doesn't really go anywhere once

>imho, has it's own rhythmic uniqueness, but doesn't really go anywhere once >that is established (within the first 20seconds of the 6+minute tune) One >Plaid track can cross a number of genres within it's 6minute framework. > >Aphex, 'fucker hasn't written anything good since ON... he's done, over, >finito....

How nice to hear someone actually say something nice about Plaid for a change. And in reference to IDM records which have surprised me in the past, Plaid records always do. I wasn't expecting Rest Proof Clockwork to sound the way it did. The fact that I found it a little disappointing after the classic that was Not For Threes is by the by. Whilst I don't think it's inherently wrong to write music that is just an evolving loop-loop-loop structure, something which Autechre seem to do a lot but are very good at, I still think it gets a little tiresome after a while. Speedy J albums were the same. All those tracks called "Fill xxx" which would build up in a loop and then deconstruct themselves and fade out again. Once in a while it's nice. All the time it's dull. The problem I have with Autechre now is that I have no time in my life for sitting down and listening to a collection of, I'll admit probably very cleverly arranged clicks, hisses, pops, etc. over and over again trying to work out how clever it actually is. I couldn't give the vaguest toss. That isn't music, that's just production and arrangement (IMHO I hasten to add). A completely tone deaf person could appreciate EP7 for god's sake. Not that I think they'd enjoy it - it's aural torture as far as I'm concerned. There are very few artists left these days that can write music with some kind of almost narrative structure. Plaid do. Tracks can begin in one style/genre and go somewhere completely different over the space of a few minutes. There's no fixed structure they adhere to. Even they're remixes do that. I just find it somewhat more rewarding to listen to. As for Aphex Twin, can't we just forget about him now, at least until he releases something new? Currently he releases novelty records - that's it. They're damn clever. And funny. But I really think we need to move on from Aphex and Ae for a while. As long as people continue to talk of them as the be all and end all of IDM no one else is ever going to get the recognition they deserve. Hope this doesn't upset anyone, it's just my opinion. Actually I'll be surprised if anyone reads it... )Jamesq. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Fri, 15 Dec 2000, Knapman, James wrote:

quoted 1 line A completely tone deaf person could appreciate EP7 for god's sake.

> A completely tone deaf person could appreciate EP7 for god's sake.

and i do! chris. music for lunchpails riders of the plastic groove kuci 88.9fm, irvine, ca www.kuci.org what i want for xmas: xl shirt that somehow says "we are all lost" on it. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

"Gilly" <galaxey@sdccu.net> wrote:

quoted 4 lines the thing (formula) i'm referring to that Ae can never seem to change >is

>the thing (formula) i'm referring to that Ae can never seem to change >is >the constant LOOP! Seem like almost everything they do, even LP5 >is creat >a killer loop and then edit that loop and re-edit and re >edit and then >record all that as a 5-8minute track.

...

quoted 5 lines Ae loop loop looop loop looop loop. I like Ae, but to me they don't >push

>Ae loop loop looop loop looop loop. I like Ae, but to me they don't >push >the envolope like the majority of the list think they do. Their >music is >distinct, sounds darker than most artists imho, has it's >own rhythmic >uniqueness, but doesn't really go anywhere once that is >established >(within the first 20seconds of the 6+minute tune)

Oh, I think things are a little more complicated than that. It'd be fairly difficult to fit, say, maphive6.1 off EP7 (track 8) comfortably into that framework. The first track (rpeg) also works with morphing melodic loop structures in a much different way than one would have previously expected from autechre, even if the beats are locked in a simple cycle through most of the song (although as far as I'm concerned the most significant thing about the beats in that song is where they drop in and out and then in again toward the beginning--it's admittedly a much-used device, but it makes me happy). Granted, though, autechre doesn't do any genre-hopping, and never has, and their songs generally maintain a certain mood throughout an individual track, this last often being accomplished by working with a limited (initial) sound palette. But then, I guess I don't view that approach to songwriting as a terrific rut or a sign that they're operating within a staid or stagnant framework-- I might be annoyed as hell if autechre started churning out frenetic pastiche instead of working within self-defined boundaries. Incidentally, the two tracks I mentioned above are also my fave tracks on the ep, although despite numerous props for the last three songs on the platter (and really, other than the beats being punched into a waterpipe, pir is just a really pleasant Aphex Twin tune), I can't say I've heard any mention of either rpeg or maphive6.1 on-list. ... Natch, though, the actual innovation in autechre's current output is pretty much cloistered in rhythm and sound design as opposed to song structure, so there you go. Take out some of the new noises they've been playing with, and much of ep7 would fit pretty comfortably onto chiastic slide or tri repetae, and I'm in full agreement that the song construction is generally not that surprising, all through. Oh-- I know this has been discussed before by those of you with the luxury of being mp3-capable (yes, there are those of us out there who aren't), but out of curiosity and lack of recollection, just what direction did autechre take on their (forthcoming) second peel session? Also incidentally, and not to start a full-blown pronunciation thread again, does anyone else pronounce ccec "ch-check" like the sound of a stuttering MC? It's a nicely moronic joke, if that's what was intended, given the vocal sampling. Fits well with the wonky humor on display in dubbing "left blank". Cheers, M. ----- Made with affection by distrustful lovers. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

"Knapman, James" wrote:

quoted 2 lines As for Aphex Twin, can't we just forget about him now, at least until he

> As for Aphex Twin, can't we just forget about him now, at least until he > releases something new? Currently he releases novelty records - that's it.

God, THAT's a bunch of nonsense. I mean "Milkman", "Come To Daddy (Pappy mix)" and maybe "Girl/Boy" are very tongue in cheek, but that's only like 1 or 2 tracks out of whole albums or EPs. I don't think the "Windowlicker" track would be viewed in the same way had he not made that video for it. It would just be another Aphex track otherwise. To me the music on the "Come To Daddy" or "Windowlicker" EPs is really about as good as IDM gets and really kind of starts to justify the "intelligent" part of the IDM tag ?

quoted 3 lines But I really think we need to move on from Aphex and Ae for a while. As long as

> But I really think we need to move on from Aphex and Ae for a while. As long as > people continue to talk of them as the be all and end all of IDM no one else is > ever going to get the recognition they deserve.

They ARE the be all and end all of IDM. They defined what IDM is and they're still making the most cutting edge music in IDM and expanding the definition of IDM. No one that I'm aware of can really touch those guys. I mean there are other people doing interesting things, but they rarely have the appeal and freshness that new records by Aphex or Autechre have. And I'm talking about IDM as in Warp/Rephlex/Skam/etc. type stuff here, not the all inclusive any "weird sort of dance music" definition. Andrei --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Know what you are saying, but i think they LIKE the "loop". And its not like they are looping like f-ing house music or anything, they have very complex beats and well thought hints of melody and what not. I would beleive that Ae started (or at least helped start) the era of "beat heads" in IDM, those more concerned with creating a Fucked Up and sick beat rather than make a "pop" song (see here what Morr Music calls alot of their stuff....pop) with a keyboard. Its just a different approach to music all together; there are only so many patterns that one can arange notes in, but with technology, beats can be scewed all together and made cool. And i dont think that their songs are one simple loop, they tweak and screw with shit all the time and play with custom filters and gains that Plaid (or the pop likes) would NEVER touch, most likely out of fear that the beat would overtake the melody etc...... There is SOME actuall song patterns in their shit. I loved that first Peel session, the first track is killer, and that was made in what, 96?94? something like that, i dont have the record in front of me...but with plaid and all that "subgenre", i find myself getting bored of the same melodies and cord proggresions. Dont get me wrong, i love me some Plaid, but i can get "gasp" bored of the stuff. I got only about two weeks of enjoyment out of Trainer, then i got really bored with it. I see what you are saying though, that AE need to add new elements, but i dont think that it is in their nature to follow any type of song structure. I contend that the perfected mix between the beat peeps and the "song" peeps would be found in all this amazing German sish that has been coming out since 98 (all your Arovane, Phonem, Kleine, Morr, CCO, etc......). It doesnt seem like this list talks enough about those types, they are who are doing the true "groundbreaking" stuff. Mr Perkins creates awsome "ae styled" breaks and loops, but can write a flooring melody that merges with it well. AE, Plaid, Aphex set up some amazing bit of ground work, but i think only ae is still making stuff worth listening to over and over and over because they are making you think about what you listen to in a song; there is a quality of space in their music that challenges your notion of "right" and "left" and makes me at least picture sounds coming from far left-left, or near-left-upper-right. They make great DHS for your head :) benine "my escelator stops for calling in sick.....hahahahaha" unedited,unre-read, un-spell checked to keep it somewhat honest, as allways.

quoted 61 lines From: "Gilly" <galaxey@sdccu.net>

>From: "Gilly" <galaxey@sdccu.net> >To: "Benjamin McDonald" <warpfan@hotmail.com>, <idm@hyperreal.org> >Subject: Re: re:stupidest thing ever posted >Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 18:00:25 -0800 > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Benjamin McDonald <warpfan@hotmail.com> >To: <galaxey@sdccu.net>; <idm@hyperreal.org> >Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 10:57 AM >Subject: re:stupidest thing ever posted > > >: whoa, got to throw my hat into the ring on this one. >: "they havent changed their formulas at all"? HUH? Did you buy EP7? Did >you >: buy lp5? neither are anything alike or anything like amber or Tri, hince >why >: they "alienated" fans. > >I have everything they've put out (or close to it:) > >If you want to talk about people who havnet changed >: formulas, talk about Plaid or something... > > > >not Autechre/ they are thinking of >: music in ways that alot of people cant grasp yet (sort of like what >: Jenkinson is doing w/his stuff). > > >the thing (formula) i'm referring to that Ae can never seem to change is >the >constant LOOP! >Seem like almost everything they do, even LP5 is creat a killer loop and >then edit that loop >and re-edit and re edit and then record all that as a 5-8minute track. > > >Plaid, they write music with structures more like pop musicians do >begining, >middle, end. (like a rock band may write verse-chorus, verse chorus, verse- >chorus, chorus, chorus, chorus) Plaid will write an intro, nice harmony, >dancey rhythm, break change in mood, return to harmony/melody. >Ae loop loop looop loop looop loop. >I like Ae, but to me they don't push the envolope like the majority of the >list think they do. Their music is distinct, sounds darker than most >artists >imho, has it's own rhythmic uniqueness, but doesn't really go anywhere once >that is established (within the first 20seconds of the 6+minute tune) One >Plaid track can cross a number of genres within it's 6minute framework. > > >Aphex, 'fucker hasn't written anything good since ON... he's done, over, >finito.... > > >g > >

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--- andrei@world.std.com wrote:

quoted 6 lines To me the music on the "Come To Daddy" or

> > To me the music on the "Come To Daddy" or > "Windowlicker" EPs is really > about as good as IDM gets and really kind of starts > to justify the "intelligent" part > of the IDM tag ?

Totally dude, when artists do a pseudo-Industrial/Prodigy tune like Come To Daddy, "Intelligence" is the FIRST word that comes to mind. Especially when you compare to his past gems. Or when an artist does his most pretty much straightforward almost hip hop tune, that's when I think...hey it's "intelligent" Got it :)

quoted 3 lines Regarding RDJ & AE

> Regarding RDJ & AE > > They ARE the be all and end all of IDM.

Both have done some of the best work, but they are not the only good artists.

quoted 3 lines They defined what IDM is and they're still

> They defined what IDM is and they're still > making the most cutting edge music in IDM and > expanding the definition of IDM.

Most people I know think the term IDM is pretty weak. Labelling everything "intelligent" is a pretty poor way of describing music. How about using real descriptions.

quoted 1 line No one that I'm aware of can really touch those

> No one that I'm aware of can really touch those

guys. It's pretty hard when they aren't in the same room with you. But they might have some virtual reality programs soon.

quoted 4 lines I mean there are other people doing interesting

> I mean there are other people doing interesting > things, but they rarely have the appeal > and freshness that new records by Aphex or Autechre > have.

There are SO MANY artists out there from experimental noise to tons of other electronic sub-genres. You just have to look and listen. Luckily most verey record I have bought in the last year has been far better than "Come To Daddy" & "Windowlicker". OOps time ran out, going home. cheers __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

You're absolutely right ! Now why don't you go back to your Ed Rush & Optical records ? Andrei William Samuels wrote:

quoted 54 lines --- andrei@world.std.com wrote:

> --- andrei@world.std.com wrote: > > > > To me the music on the "Come To Daddy" or > > "Windowlicker" EPs is really > > about as good as IDM gets and really kind of starts > > to justify the "intelligent" part > > of the IDM tag ? > > Totally dude, when artists do a > pseudo-Industrial/Prodigy tune like Come To Daddy, > "Intelligence" is the FIRST word that comes to mind. > Especially when you compare to his past gems. > > Or when an artist does his most pretty much > straightforward almost hip hop tune, that's when I > think...hey it's "intelligent" > > Got it :) > > > Regarding RDJ & AE > > > > They ARE the be all and end all of IDM. > > Both have done some of the best work, but they are not > the only good artists. > > > They defined what IDM is and they're still > > making the most cutting edge music in IDM and > > expanding the definition of IDM. > > Most people I know think the term IDM is pretty weak. > Labelling everything "intelligent" is a pretty poor > way of describing music. How about using real > descriptions. > > > No one that I'm aware of can really touch those > guys. > > It's pretty hard when they aren't in the same room > with you. But they might have some virtual reality > programs soon. > > > I mean there are other people doing interesting > > things, but they rarely have the appeal > > and freshness that new records by Aphex or Autechre > > have. > > There are SO MANY artists out there from experimental > noise to tons of other electronic sub-genres. You > just have to look and listen. Luckily most verey > record I have bought in the last year has been far > better than "Come To Daddy" & "Windowlicker". > > OOps time ran out, going home. cheers

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In a message dated 12/14/00 6:03:39 PM Pacific Standard Time, galaxey@sdccu.net writes: << : whoa, got to throw my hat into the ring on this one. : "they havent changed their formulas at all"? HUH? Did you buy EP7? Did you : buy lp5? neither are anything alike or anything like amber or Tri, hince why : they "alienated" fans. I have everything they've put out (or close to it:) If you want to talk about people who havnet changed : formulas, talk about Plaid or something... not Autechre/ they are thinking of : music in ways that alot of people cant grasp yet (sort of like what : Jenkinson is doing w/his stuff). the thing (formula) i'm referring to that Ae can never seem to change is the constant LOOP! Seem like almost everything they do, even LP5 is creat a killer loop and then edit that loop and re-edit and re edit and then record all that as a 5-8minute track. Plaid, they write music with structures more like pop musicians do begining, middle, end. (like a rock band may write verse-chorus, verse chorus, verse- chorus, chorus, chorus, chorus) Plaid will write an intro, nice harmony, dancey rhythm, break change in mood, return to harmony/melody. Ae loop loop looop loop looop loop. I like Ae, but to me they don't push the envolope like the majority of the list think they do. Their music is distinct, sounds darker than most artists imho, has it's own rhythmic uniqueness, but doesn't really go anywhere once that is established (within the first 20seconds of the 6+minute tune) One Plaid track can cross a number of genres within it's 6minute framework. Aphex, 'fucker hasn't written anything good since ON... he's done, over, finito.... g >> How can you talk about loops being bad and then say that aphex's best release was on, which was a loop. Furthermore, how can you say autechre's music is one loop, they have plenty of music with crazy shit going on in the song. There are many small things that the untrained ear doesn't pick up (at least on ae). Also, the algorythm by which someone makes music is their "formula" not the way each song sounds. MÅ-Nick------|[www.manicdetroit.com][www.8bitpeoples.com]| ------------------|[www.mp3.com/manicdetroit]|-------111.41/110-pi --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

In a message dated 12/17/00 11:18:18 PM Central Standard Time, DynamiCell@aol.com writes:

quoted 1 line loop loop looop loop looop loop.

> loop loop looop loop looop loop.

if any of you out there don't like that, stay FAR AWAY from muslimgauze --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

--- andrei@world.std.com wrote:

quoted 4 lines You're absolutely right !

> You're absolutely right ! > > Now why don't you go back to your Ed Rush & Optical > records ?

What about Ed Rush & Optical? Got the Creeps lp, and I'm certainly not as impressed with Virus (lately) as I use to. I'm still way more excited about Klute's - Fear Of People LP, and all the new Pieter K material out on dubplate. Polar (K) is also always great. I'm more in a downtempo mode these days...Cinematic Orchestra, Jazzanova, etc. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 35 lines From: "Gilly" <galaxey@sdccu.net>

>From: "Gilly" <galaxey@sdccu.net> >To: "Benjamin McDonald" <warpfan@hotmail.com>, <idm@hyperreal.org> >Subject: [idm] Re: re:stupidest thing ever posted >Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 18:00:25 -0800 > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Benjamin McDonald <warpfan@hotmail.com> >To: <galaxey@sdccu.net>; <idm@hyperreal.org> >Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 10:57 AM >Subject: re:stupidest thing ever posted > > >: whoa, got to throw my hat into the ring on this one. >: "they havent changed their formulas at all"? HUH? Did you buy EP7? Did >you >: buy lp5? neither are anything alike or anything like amber or Tri, hince >why >: they "alienated" fans. > >I have everything they've put out (or close to it:) > >If you want to talk about people who havnet changed >: formulas, talk about Plaid or something... > > > >not Autechre/ they are thinking of >: music in ways that alot of people cant grasp yet (sort of like what >: Jenkinson is doing w/his stuff). > > >the thing (formula) i'm referring to that Ae can never seem to change is >the >constant LOOP!

i think what may sound like a loop is more of a "rotation". within that "rotation" are layered more "rotations" and often there is hardly any repetition in ae's music. although it may sound "loopey" at face value. and i would venture to say that techno music in general was founded on that very formula

quoted 17 lines Seem like almost everything they do, even LP5 is creat a killer loop and

>Seem like almost everything they do, even LP5 is creat a killer loop and >then edit that loop >and re-edit and re edit and then record all that as a 5-8minute track. > > >Plaid, they write music with structures more like pop musicians do >begining, >middle, end. (like a rock band may write verse-chorus, verse chorus, verse- >chorus, chorus, chorus, chorus) Plaid will write an intro, nice harmony, >dancey rhythm, break change in mood, return to harmony/melody. >Ae loop loop looop loop looop loop. >I like Ae, but to me they don't push the envolope like the majority of the >list think they do. Their music is distinct, sounds darker than most >artists >imho, has it's own rhythmic uniqueness, but doesn't really go anywhere once >that is established (within the first 20seconds of the 6+minute tune) One >Plaid track can cross a number of genres within it's 6minute framework.

i think plaid's kinda generic and trendy... they're okay i guess... poppy and catchy like you said and i may get slammed for saying this, but i don't think their music is anywhere near as intelligent or psychedelic as autechre's .... of course, that's no good reason to form an opinion.. but i like the smart shit.

quoted 4 lines Aphex, 'fucker hasn't written anything good since ON... he's done, over,

> > >Aphex, 'fucker hasn't written anything good since ON... he's done, over, >finito....

whew! good thing you're not steve beckett or head of warner bros.

quoted 10 lines g

> > >g > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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