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RE: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream

26 messages · 18 participants · spans 2 days · search this subject
2000-09-11 19:55[idm] IDM in the US mainstream
├─ 2000-09-11 20:01Catfish Gil Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
│ └─ 2000-09-11 20:55Kent williams Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
│ └─ 2000-09-11 20:55atomly Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
│ └─ 2000-09-11 09:39Nir Arbel RE: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
└─ 2000-09-11 20:35Josh Davison Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
2000-09-11 20:02Jeff Shoemaker Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
2000-09-11 20:34Nate Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
2000-09-11 20:44a johnson Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
2000-09-12 01:56Marc 3 Poirier Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
2000-09-12 02:26cutup Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
└─ 2000-09-12 04:49EggyToast Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
2000-09-12 02:29__..-- lander --..__ Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
2000-09-12 02:36component Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
2000-09-12 03:07{{{5x}}} Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
└─ 2000-09-12 02:02atomly Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
2000-09-12 03:22{{{5x}}} Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
2000-09-12 03:26{{{5x}}} Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
2000-09-12 03:34{{{5x}}} Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
├─ 2000-09-12 04:51EggyToast Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
└─ 2000-09-12 14:38Josh Davison Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
2000-09-12 07:07Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
2000-09-12 14:17Marc 3 Poirier Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
2000-09-12 14:41alexis Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
2000-09-12 16:56Ian Doyle Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
2000-09-13 02:41Jon Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
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2000-09-11 19:55Cichli@aol.comjosh wrote: [i give it a year, maybe less. "modern rock" is so stagnant we are due for ano
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Mon, 11 Sep 2000 15:55:38 EDT
Subject:
[idm] IDM in the US mainstream
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josh wrote: [i give it a year, maybe less. "modern rock" is so stagnant we are due for another Nirvana-style paradigm shift.......but "IDM" in it's current state will never make it to the mainstream in the USA because there are no vocals.] i'm actually starting a project right now with some friends like this. it's gonna be me on guitars/programming, my friend Nate on bass and my friend Brandy on vocals. it's gonna have all the IDM drums, sound effects, and structures with guitars and vocals. as far as the style, it'll probably range from Tool and Deftones to Sarah McLachlan and Portishead. if it works out it will be orignal to say the least, and it may even be a mainstream kinda sound. who knows...... :jason (ecux) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-09-11 20:01Catfish GilOh please, the US will stay a friend of Rock forever. There's no hope. we used to think th
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Catfish Gil
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Mon, 11 Sep 2000 16:01:40 -0400 (EDT)
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Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
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[idm] IDM in the US mainstream
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Oh please, the US will stay a friend of Rock forever. There's no hope. we used to think that any sort of dance/electronic derivative would break in a few years, and that was back in 95 or 96. B/c music has to be marketed and the major labels have no clue how to successfully market it, they gave up. done, dead, over. The only thing that gives me hope is how much electronic music there is out on napster and gnutella. ugh, don't get me started... -Gil On Mon, 11 Sep 2000 Cichli@aol.com wrote:
quoted 19 lines josh wrote:> josh wrote: > [i give it a year, maybe less. "modern rock" is so stagnant we are due for > another Nirvana-style paradigm shift.......but "IDM" in it's current state > will never make it to the mainstream in the USA because there are no vocals.] > > i'm actually starting a project right now with some friends like this. it's > gonna be me on guitars/programming, my friend Nate on bass and my friend > Brandy on vocals. it's gonna have all the IDM drums, sound effects, and > structures with guitars and vocals. as far as the style, it'll probably > range from Tool and Deftones to Sarah McLachlan and Portishead. if it > works out it will be orignal to say the least, and it may even be a > mainstream kinda sound. who knows...... > > :jason (ecux) > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >
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2000-09-11 20:55Kent williamsThe problem with electronic music is the inherent conservatism of the US market, coupled w
From:
Kent williams
To:
Catfish Gil
Cc:
IDM list
Date:
Mon, 11 Sep 2000 15:55:04 -0500 (CDT)
Subject:
Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
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Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
permalink · <Pine.HPP.3.96.1000911153806.12700D-100000@arthur.avalon.net>
The problem with electronic music is the inherent conservatism of the US market, coupled with the mega-monolithic business model of major label record companies. You're never going to get 2 million people to buy Funkstorung, and the major labels aren't interested in developing artists who don't have the potential of being big unit shifters. Electronic artists also control the means of production. They turn in their records on a CDR. A big part of the major label game is suckering people into taking big advances and then twisting up the accounting so that they never come out ahead. You sell records AND you screw the artist by making him pay you back any money you give them. AND you take their publishing rights so they don't have royalties! kent williams -- kent@avalon.net http://www.mp3.com/chaircrusher -- tunes http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=chaircrusher -- mix On Mon, 11 Sep 2000, Catfish Gil wrote:
quoted 45 lines Oh please, the US will stay a friend of Rock forever.> Oh please, the US will stay a friend of Rock forever. > There's no hope. > we used to think that any sort of dance/electronic derivative would break > in a few years, and that was back in 95 or 96. > > B/c music has to be marketed and the major labels have no clue how to > successfully market it, they gave up. done, dead, over. > > The only thing that gives me hope is how much electronic music there is > out on napster and gnutella. > > ugh, don't get me started... > > -Gil > > > > > On Mon, 11 Sep 2000 Cichli@aol.com wrote: > > > josh wrote: > > [i give it a year, maybe less. "modern rock" is so stagnant we are due for > > another Nirvana-style paradigm shift.......but "IDM" in it's current state > > will never make it to the mainstream in the USA because there are no vocals.] > > > > i'm actually starting a project right now with some friends like this. it's > > gonna be me on guitars/programming, my friend Nate on bass and my friend > > Brandy on vocals. it's gonna have all the IDM drums, sound effects, and > > structures with guitars and vocals. as far as the style, it'll probably > > range from Tool and Deftones to Sarah McLachlan and Portishead. if it > > works out it will be orignal to say the least, and it may even be a > > mainstream kinda sound. who knows...... > > > > :jason (ecux) > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >
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2000-09-11 20:55atomlyOn Mon, Sep 11, 2000 at 03:55:04PM -0500, Kent williams wrote: > The problem with electron
From:
atomly
To:
Date:
Mon, 11 Sep 2000 15:55:21 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
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Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
permalink · <20000911155521.A21042@atomly.com>
On Mon, Sep 11, 2000 at 03:55:04PM -0500, Kent williams wrote:
quoted 5 lines The problem with electronic music is the inherent conservatism of> The problem with electronic music is the inherent conservatism of > the US market, coupled with the mega-monolithic business model of major > label record companies. You're never going to get 2 million people to buy > Funkstorung, and the major labels aren't interested in developing artists > who don't have the potential of being big unit shifters.
Yea, Kent pretty much hit it on the head here. As recently as the 60's, "independent" labels were able to get singles into the top 10, but now only the majors (Universial, EMI, Warner, Sony and BMG) can get decent distribution much less hits.
quoted 6 lines Electronic artists also control the means of production. They turn in> Electronic artists also control the means of production. They turn in > their records on a CDR. A big part of the major label game is suckering > people into taking big advances and then twisting up the accounting so that > they never come out ahead. You sell records AND you screw the artist by > making him pay you back any money you give them. AND you take their publishing > rights so they don't have royalties!
Once again, Kent is dead on... For a good explanation of this, read Steve Albini's (member of Shellac, Rapeman and Big Black, producer of Nirvana, PJ Harvey, Page and Plant, etc) rant on this at http://www.atomly.com/random/albini.html -- :: atomly :: atomly@atomly.com | atomly@atdot.org | atomly@curiousnetworks.com http://www.atomly.com | http://www.mp3.com/atomly --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-09-11 09:39Nir ArbelI read this article about how the whole music publishing system works. I was imagining the
From:
Nir Arbel
To:
Date:
Mon, 11 Sep 2000 02:39:19 -0700
Subject:
RE: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
Reply to:
Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
permalink · <000201c01bd4$2969f340$8703a8c0@napster.com>
I read this article about how the whole music publishing system works. I was imagining the process to be pretty straightforward: You, the artist, are given money by the label to make your album, and once it's done they distribute it, giving you a share of every unit sold. Couldn't be more wrong -- the sells of the vast majority of albums published by recording companies are monetary fodder for the Ricky Martins, Aguileras and Britneys of the music industry. That is to say, most artists aren't making almost any money off their record sales. The way it works is this: You are given the money to make your album, but it would have to sell rather well (in between 90,000 to 200,000 units) before you start getting royalties. When you do, you get around 1.40$ for every unit sold. Since the label's profits for an album before they start giving royalties to the artist ranges between about one million to two million dollars, there's a lot there that goes beyond the original investment in the artist. Yes, the rest goes mainly to marketing, but the real shocker is it's mostly for the marketing of *other artists*, mainly those teen sensations of the type listed above. Gives you a warm fuzzy feeling to know that a large part of the money you shelled out for the US release of Select Ambient Works II is going to go to produce N'Sync's next video clip, eh? Cheers, Cloth -----Original Message----- From: atomly [mailto:atomly@atomly.com] Sent: Monday, September 11, 2000 1:55 PM To: idm@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream On Mon, Sep 11, 2000 at 03:55:04PM -0500, Kent williams wrote:
quoted 5 lines The problem with electronic music is the inherent conservatism of> The problem with electronic music is the inherent conservatism of > the US market, coupled with the mega-monolithic business model of major > label record companies. You're never going to get 2 million people to buy > Funkstorung, and the major labels aren't interested in developing artists > who don't have the potential of being big unit shifters.
Yea, Kent pretty much hit it on the head here. As recently as the 60's, "independent" labels were able to get singles into the top 10, but now only the majors (Universial, EMI, Warner, Sony and BMG) can get decent distribution much less hits.
quoted 3 lines Electronic artists also control the means of production. They turn in> Electronic artists also control the means of production. They turn in > their records on a CDR. A big part of the major label game is suckering > people into taking big advances and then twisting up the accounting so
that
quoted 2 lines they never come out ahead. You sell records AND you screw the artist by> they never come out ahead. You sell records AND you screw the artist by > making him pay you back any money you give them. AND you take their
publishing
quoted 1 line rights so they don't have royalties!> rights so they don't have royalties!
Once again, Kent is dead on... For a good explanation of this, read Steve Albini's (member of Shellac, Rapeman and Big Black, producer of Nirvana, PJ Harvey, Page and Plant, etc) rant on this at http://www.atomly.com/random/albini.html -- :: atomly :: atomly@atomly.com | atomly@atdot.org | atomly@curiousnetworks.com http://www.atomly.com | http://www.mp3.com/atomly --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-09-11 20:35Josh DavisonSELLOUT WHORE!!!! just kidding... we are experimenting with live instruments too, i see al
From:
Josh Davison
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Cc:
Date:
Mon, 11 Sep 2000 15:35:56 -0500 (CDT)
Subject:
Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
Reply to:
[idm] IDM in the US mainstream
permalink · <Pine.NEB.3.96.1000911150241.73686K-100000@shell-3.enteract.com>
SELLOUT WHORE!!!! just kidding... we are experimenting with live instruments too, i see alot of that going on in fact (Savath & Savalas comes to mind). Vocals seem like the logical next step, although my problem is i got nothing to say .. i have been experimenting with granular vocals though, taking snippets of peoples voices and capturing the timbre of their voice and then using it as an instrument... it sounds kinda neat... -- String Theory : Digital Music for Humans http://www.enteract.com/~yoshi/index.cgi On Mon, 11 Sep 2000 Cichli@aol.com wrote:
quoted 20 lines josh wrote:> josh wrote: > [i give it a year, maybe less. "modern rock" is so stagnant we are due for > another Nirvana-style paradigm shift.......but "IDM" in it's current state > will never make it to the mainstream in the USA because there are no vocals.] > > i'm actually starting a project right now with some friends like this. it's > gonna be me on guitars/programming, my friend Nate on bass and my friend > Brandy on vocals. it's gonna have all the IDM drums, sound effects, and > structures with guitars and vocals. as far as the style, it'll probably > range from Tool and Deftones to Sarah McLachlan and Portishead. if it > works out it will be orignal to say the least, and it may even be a > mainstream kinda sound. who knows...... > > :jason (ecux) > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >
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2000-09-11 20:02Jeff Shoemaker> has anyone heard the latest Madonna or Janet Jackson??!? > > I know it's far away from I
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Jeff Shoemaker
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Date:
Mon, 11 Sep 2000 15:02:12 -0500
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Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
permalink · <059901c01c2b$2d4f0a20$2016fea9@hoss>
quoted 3 lines has anyone heard the latest Madonna or Janet Jackson??!?> has anyone heard the latest Madonna or Janet Jackson??!? > > I know it's far away from IDM, but you don't have to listen too close to
hear the
quoted 1 line IDM-ish production techniques. I know that inpart this is due to WIlliam> IDM-ish production techniques. I know that inpart this is due to WIlliam
Orbit's
quoted 1 line work with Madonna,> work with Madonna,
i don't believe madonna worked with Orbit on the new one(s). it's a french producer i believe. . . -jeff ------------ 1642 try 621 ------------ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-09-11 20:34Natehas anyone heard the latest Madonna or Janet Jackson??!? I know it's far away from IDM, bu
From:
Nate
To:
Catfish Gil
Cc:
IDM list
Date:
Mon, 11 Sep 2000 16:34:19 -0400
Subject:
Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
permalink · <39BD41C5.7AB37BA@toshoklabs.com>
has anyone heard the latest Madonna or Janet Jackson??!? I know it's far away from IDM, but you don't have to listen too close to hear the IDM-ish production techniques. I know that inpart this is due to WIlliam Orbit's work with Madonna, but don't you worry kiddies little glitches and twaekd beats will work there way into mainstream music in the same way that all the hard rock bands use 'scratching' in their songs... but yeah the US will be rock n roll forever who cares nate Catfish Gil wrote:
quoted 40 lines Oh please, the US will stay a friend of Rock forever.> Oh please, the US will stay a friend of Rock forever. > There's no hope. > we used to think that any sort of dance/electronic derivative would break > in a few years, and that was back in 95 or 96. > > B/c music has to be marketed and the major labels have no clue how to > successfully market it, they gave up. done, dead, over. > > The only thing that gives me hope is how much electronic music there is > out on napster and gnutella. > > ugh, don't get me started... > > -Gil > > On Mon, 11 Sep 2000 Cichli@aol.com wrote: > > > josh wrote: > > [i give it a year, maybe less. "modern rock" is so stagnant we are due for > > another Nirvana-style paradigm shift.......but "IDM" in it's current state > > will never make it to the mainstream in the USA because there are no vocals.] > > > > i'm actually starting a project right now with some friends like this. it's > > gonna be me on guitars/programming, my friend Nate on bass and my friend > > Brandy on vocals. it's gonna have all the IDM drums, sound effects, and > > structures with guitars and vocals. as far as the style, it'll probably > > range from Tool and Deftones to Sarah McLachlan and Portishead. if it > > works out it will be orignal to say the least, and it may even be a > > mainstream kinda sound. who knows...... > > > > :jason (ecux) > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
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2000-09-11 20:44a johnson--- Jeff Shoemaker <cache@texas.net> wrote: > i don't believe madonna worked with Orbit on
From:
a johnson
To:
Jeff Shoemaker , IDM list
Date:
Mon, 11 Sep 2000 13:44:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:
Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
permalink · <20000911204446.8249.qmail@web118.yahoomail.com>
--- Jeff Shoemaker <cache@texas.net> wrote:
quoted 3 lines i don't believe madonna worked with Orbit on the new> i don't believe madonna worked with Orbit on the new > one(s). it's a french > producer i believe. . .
yeah, it's a fellow from that old french band taxi girl, and their old material was nothing like the track music (which i finally heard and think is alright for pop).. cheers, :a ===== a johnson dropstar@yahoo.com visit: http://www.neverville.com real audio & mp3 song samples available now wild planet out now (subcon/nettwerk) pandorabox 'songs seldom sung anymore 2' available at neverville __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-09-12 01:56Marc 3 Poirier>Yea, Kent pretty much hit it on the head here. As recently as the 60's, >"independent" la
From:
Marc 3 Poirier
To:
Date:
Mon, 11 Sep 2000 21:56:32 -0400
Subject:
Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
permalink · <4.3.2.7.1.20000911214139.00aaf100@virtu.sar.usf.edu>
quoted 4 lines Yea, Kent pretty much hit it on the head here. As recently as the 60's,>Yea, Kent pretty much hit it on the head here. As recently as the 60's, >"independent" labels were able to get singles into the top 10, but now >only the majors (Universial, EMI, Warner, Sony and BMG) can get decent >distribution much less hits.
Jive Records (Britney Spears, Backstreet Boys, *nsync, R. Kelly, etc.) is independent, actually. Brings the question into my mind of just what the hell independent means, though. > The problem with electronic music is the inherent conservatism of > the US market, coupled with the mega-monolithic business model of major > label record companies. You're never going to get 2 million people to > buy Funkstorung, and the major labels aren't interested in developing > artists who don't have the potential of being big unit shifters. Kent definitely didn't hit the nail on the head here, though. There's no way those labels would sign so damn many bands & musicians thinking that every one of them really had the potential to sell millions of records. Some bands are definitely signed without any realistic expectation that they'll sell many records, but are signed for different reasons (like in order to attract other artists; for example, like DGC getting artistic "cool" credibility by signing Sonic Youth; could be way Aphex was picked up by Sire, too). No words: that's another reason you won't see IDM going MTV. Only with words you can (like Madonna or Bjork with IDM producers; but, yes, I know, here & there there are scattered exceptions). Marc Poirier --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-09-12 02:26cutupIts funny to have the perspective where you want to say "...but that's not 'techno'..." bu
From:
cutup
To:
Date:
Mon, 11 Sep 2000 22:26:03 -0400
Subject:
Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
permalink · <047701c01c60$cc1c0380$27a072d1@sgi.net>
Its funny to have the perspective where you want to say "...but that's not 'techno'..." but people won't have any clue of what you're talking about. Most people don't have the interest or patience unless it just happens to strike them. Then there's also the theory of people gradually starting to like stuff after they're exposed to it alot and frequently... I've seen it happen, but there's a great deal of mental resistance to anything "techno" (which could be a madonna dance track or noisecreator or anything in between) - cutups ----- Original Message ----- From: atomly <atomly@atomly.com> To: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2000 10:02 PM Subject: Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
quoted 31 lines On Mon, Sep 11, 2000 at 09:07:31PM -0600, {{{5x}}} wrote:> On Mon, Sep 11, 2000 at 09:07:31PM -0600, {{{5x}}} wrote: > > i fully agree. the best way to test this theory is to play, i dunno, > > mandell or something in the car and see how your friends react. > > quotes in my car: > > "what is this shit?" > > "please turn it off?" > > "can we listen to something else??" > > One of the funnier things that ever happened to me was when I was riding > in a car with some friends during high school and they were flipping > through radio stations. When they got to the college radio station, > they heard five seconds of electronic stuff and declared that they "hate > techno" and then proceeded to change it to the "alternative" station and > wait out a very terrible live version of "Janey Says" by Cowboy Mouth in > hopes that the next song would be good. > > I waited until we got to the restaurant to tell them that it was my song > on the college radio station and they all just kind of sat there not > knowing what to say. :) > > -- > :: atomly :: > > atomly@atomly.com | atomly@atdot.org | atomly@curiousnetworks.com > http://www.atomly.com | http://www.mp3.com/atomly > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >
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2000-09-12 04:49EggyToastAt 10:26 PM 9/11/00 -0400, cutup wrote: >Its funny to have the perspective where you want
From:
EggyToast
To:
cutup ,
Date:
Mon, 11 Sep 2000 23:49:46 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
Reply to:
Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
permalink · <4.3.2.7.1.20000911234543.00a9b380@youn0394.email.umn.edu>
At 10:26 PM 9/11/00 -0400, cutup wrote:
quoted 11 lines Its funny to have the perspective where you want to say>Its funny to have the perspective where you want to say >"...but that's not 'techno'..." but people won't have any clue of what >you're talking about. >Most people don't have the interest or patience unless it just happens to >strike them. >Then there's also the theory of people gradually starting to like stuff >after they're exposed to it alot >and frequently... I've seen it happen, but there's a great deal of mental >resistance to anything "techno" >(which could be a madonna dance track or noisecreator or anything in >between)
i think a lot of it has to do with familiarity. if you present someone with something that's pretty standard, they'll listen to it, compare it to what else they've heard and liked, and formulate an opinion. most techno is either a) really boring and repetitive, or b) really different from "pop" or "rock". really boring repetitive "pop" or "rock" songs tend to die fast (although some catchy ones defy this...), and it usually takes a while for anything "different" to cause a paradigm shift. what a lot of people who dig "idm" forget is that before they really got into it, they liked a lot of pretty mainstream music (this is often the case, but not always. it's too new a "movement" for it to raise kids on (by raise i mean older than 18 :b). like all paradigm shifts, it might seem like a "well duh" thing to those in it, but to those on the outside it's still a very foreign thing. give it time, and enjoy your head start ;) besides, there are still people now who don't listen to anything released after 1979 (barring reunion albums heh heh heh) cheers, \derek ----------- "Extremism is no vice when God's on your side" -Opus the Penguin --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-09-12 02:29__..-- lander --..__>From: {{{5x}}} <5tx@home.com> >To: atomly <atomly@atomly.com> >CC: idm@hyperreal.org >Sub
From:
__..-- lander --..__
To:
Date:
Mon, 11 Sep 2000 19:29:20 PDT
Subject:
Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
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quoted 13 lines From: {{{5x}}} <5tx@home.com>>From: {{{5x}}} <5tx@home.com> >To: atomly <atomly@atomly.com> >CC: idm@hyperreal.org >Subject: Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream >Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 21:22:16 -0600 > >speaking of radio stations, did anyone else check out vladislav delay on >cbc >radio2 a couple weeks ago (or more than that?) >it was a terrific performance but too bad i missed an hour of it due to an >extremely destructive thunderstorm. > >((shaun))
does anyone know if that show is archived anywhere? i thought it was supposed to be... thanks for you time. lander. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-09-12 02:36componentThere really is NO WAY that you can call a major label like Jive an independant label. Tho
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component
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Mon, 11 Sep 2000 22:36:22 -0400
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Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
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There really is NO WAY that you can call a major label like Jive an independant label. Those fuckers are making millions off selling their musical version of ex-lax. Rob component records www.mindstorm.com/component ----- Original Message ----- From: Marc 3 Poirier <mpoirier@virtu.sar.usf.edu> To: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2000 9:56 PM Subject: Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
quoted 10 lines Yea, Kent pretty much hit it on the head here. As recently as the 60's,> > >Yea, Kent pretty much hit it on the head here. As recently as the 60's, > >"independent" labels were able to get singles into the top 10, but now > >only the majors (Universial, EMI, Warner, Sony and BMG) can get decent > >distribution much less hits. > > Jive Records (Britney Spears, Backstreet Boys, *nsync, R. Kelly, > etc.) is independent, actually. Brings the question into my mind of just > what the hell independent means, though. >
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2000-09-12 03:07{{{5x}}}i fully agree. the best way to test this theory is to play, i dunno, mandell or something
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{{{5x}}}
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Ian Doyle
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Date:
Mon, 11 Sep 2000 21:07:31 -0600
Subject:
Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
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i fully agree. the best way to test this theory is to play, i dunno, mandell or something in the car and see how your friends react. quotes in my car: "what is this shit?" "please turn it off?" "can we listen to something else??" "your order comes to $5.16" whoops, that last one was at mcdonalds. anyway, you get what i mean. i try hard to get people to listen, i really do. it just doesn't work. i've had very favorable reactions towards track 12 off the new marumari cd, though. that and iambic 5 poetry always get a good response. (((shaun)))
quoted 12 lines sorry, but since when did IDM have a definitive drum / sound effects /> sorry, but since when did IDM have a definitive drum / sound effects / > structure? for me the whole idea of IDM is to be as creative as possible > without limitations... for me IDM is the underground before the > mainstream... > it's the experiment before the bandwagon. > although i do agree that IDM music will never catch on in the US, because > most (all) pop acts rely on their videos and images to sell their music and > often try to sell the image with it. but most IDM music makers are > experimental and often extreme, and their sound is not too often accepted by > the 'mainstream market', therefore they are not seen as money/image/trend > makers, and therefore they do not get funded to sell the music. > i know this'll start a nuclear war of words, and i apologise.
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2000-09-12 02:02atomlyOn Mon, Sep 11, 2000 at 09:07:31PM -0600, {{{5x}}} wrote: > i fully agree. the best way to
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atomly
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Mon, 11 Sep 2000 21:02:01 -0500
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Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
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Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
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On Mon, Sep 11, 2000 at 09:07:31PM -0600, {{{5x}}} wrote:
quoted 6 lines i fully agree. the best way to test this theory is to play, i dunno,> i fully agree. the best way to test this theory is to play, i dunno, > mandell or something in the car and see how your friends react. > quotes in my car: > "what is this shit?" > "please turn it off?" > "can we listen to something else??"
One of the funnier things that ever happened to me was when I was riding in a car with some friends during high school and they were flipping through radio stations. When they got to the college radio station, they heard five seconds of electronic stuff and declared that they "hate techno" and then proceeded to change it to the "alternative" station and wait out a very terrible live version of "Janey Says" by Cowboy Mouth in hopes that the next song would be good. I waited until we got to the restaurant to tell them that it was my song on the college radio station and they all just kind of sat there not knowing what to say. :) -- :: atomly :: atomly@atomly.com | atomly@atdot.org | atomly@curiousnetworks.com http://www.atomly.com | http://www.mp3.com/atomly --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-09-12 03:22{{{5x}}}> I waited until we got to the restaurant to tell them that it was my song > on the colleg
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{{{5x}}}
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atomly
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Date:
Mon, 11 Sep 2000 21:22:16 -0600
Subject:
Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
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quoted 3 lines I waited until we got to the restaurant to tell them that it was my song> I waited until we got to the restaurant to tell them that it was my song > on the college radio station and they all just kind of sat there not > knowing what to say. :)
i hear ya on that. too many people say that techno sucks, but i have to agree that most of the time, it's true what they're saying. they're hearing la bouche or something in the radio and from that point on, la bouche = techno. i can honestly say that if i was not hip to the idm world, i'd say that techno sucks, too. speaking of radio stations, did anyone else check out vladislav delay on cbc radio2 a couple weeks ago (or more than that?) it was a terrific performance but too bad i missed an hour of it due to an extremely destructive thunderstorm. ((shaun)) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-09-12 03:26{{{5x}}}> I waited until we got to the restaurant to tell them that it was my song > on the colleg
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{{{5x}}}
To:
Interior Deoxy Metricate
Date:
Mon, 11 Sep 2000 21:26:36 -0600
Subject:
Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
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quoted 1 line I waited until we got to the restaurant to tell them that it was my> I waited until we got to the restaurant to tell them that it was my
song
quoted 2 lines on the college radio station and they all just kind of sat there not> on the college radio station and they all just kind of sat there not > knowing what to say. :)
i hear ya on that. too many people say that techno sucks, but i have to agree that most of the time, it's true what they're saying. they're hearing la bouche or something in the radio and from that point on, la bouche = techno. i can honestly say that if i was not hip to the idm world, i'd say that techno sucks, too. speaking of radio stations, did anyone else check out vladislav delay on cbc radio2 a couple weeks ago (or more than that?) it was a terrific performance but too bad i missed an hour of it due to an extremely destructive thunderstorm. ((shaun)) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-09-12 03:34{{{5x}}}cutup wrote: > Its funny to have the perspective where you want to say > "...but that's no
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{{{5x}}}
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Interior Deoxy Metricate
Date:
Mon, 11 Sep 2000 21:34:55 -0600
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Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
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cutup wrote:
quoted 11 lines Its funny to have the perspective where you want to say> Its funny to have the perspective where you want to say > "...but that's not 'techno'..." but people won't have any clue of what > you're talking about. > Most people don't have the interest or patience unless it just happens to > strike them. > Then there's also the theory of people gradually starting to like stuff > after they're exposed to it alot > and frequently... I've seen it happen, but there's a great deal of mental > resistance to anything "techno" > (which could be a madonna dance track or noisecreator or anything in > between)
exactly. have any of you ever tried to describe idm ( i know it's a list, not a genre; you know what i mean) to someone that doesn't know anything about it? it's the most frustrating experience ever. nobody really seems to get excited about alternate time signatures and delay effects. =) shaun --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-09-12 04:51EggyToast> >exactly. have any of you ever tried to describe idm ( i know it's a list, >not a >genre
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EggyToast
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{{{5x}}} , Interior Deoxy Metricate
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Mon, 11 Sep 2000 23:51:04 -0500
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Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
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Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
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quoted 6 lines exactly. have any of you ever tried to describe idm ( i know it's a list,> >exactly. have any of you ever tried to describe idm ( i know it's a list, >not a >genre; you know what i mean) to someone that doesn't know anything about it? >it's the most frustrating experience ever. nobody really seems to get excited >about alternate time signatures and delay effects. =)
i just usually say "oh just weird stuff. it tends to be made using electronics, but not exclusively". i usually get an "ohh..." as a response, meaning that they didn't really care anyways ;) idm is one of those things where you really have to hear it to believe it ;) cheers, =derek ----------- "Extremism is no vice when God's on your side" -Opus the Penguin --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-09-12 14:38Josh DavisonOn Mon, 11 Sep 2000, {{{5x}}} wrote: > exactly. have any of you ever tried to describe idm
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Josh Davison
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{{{5x}}}
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Interior Deoxy Metricate
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Tue, 12 Sep 2000 09:38:04 -0500 (CDT)
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Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
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Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
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On Mon, 11 Sep 2000, {{{5x}}} wrote:
quoted 4 lines exactly. have any of you ever tried to describe idm ( i know it's a list, not a> exactly. have any of you ever tried to describe idm ( i know it's a list, not a > genre; you know what i mean) to someone that doesn't know anything about it? > it's the most frustrating experience ever. nobody really seems to get excited > about alternate time signatures and delay effects. =)
well except for geeky trainspotters with nothing to do all day except yap online about recordings of radio static and the sound of digital processors... and by the way anybody who runs linux should try the following: cat /vmlinux > /dev/dsp (or some equivalent)... hehehe - feel the love, y'all -josh --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-09-12 07:07Cichli@aol.comIan wrote: [sorry, but since when did IDM have a definitive drum / sound effects / structu
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Tue, 12 Sep 2000 03:07:46 EDT
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Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
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Ian wrote: [sorry, but since when did IDM have a definitive drum / sound effects / structure? for me the whole idea of IDM is to be as creative as possible without limitations... for me IDM is the underground before the mainstream...] IDM has NOTHING definitive. i was being very general, seeing as for one this little project is barely beginning and i hardly have more than a few songs even partly finished. if it sounded like i said "i'm gonna have autechre drums, aphex sound effects and BOC song structures" then i'm sorry. i was just giving a little, generic description. if you want me to be specific about what it sounds like, next time i will personally send you an mp3 of the electronic backing track..........ya know what i mean? :jason (ecux) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-09-12 14:17Marc 3 Poirier>There really is NO WAY that you can call a major label like Jive an >independant label. >
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Marc 3 Poirier
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component
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Tue, 12 Sep 2000 10:17:08 -0400
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Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
permalink · <4.3.2.7.1.20000912101147.00aaa8b0@virtu.sar.usf.edu>
quoted 4 lines There really is NO WAY that you can call a major label like Jive an>There really is NO WAY that you can call a major label like Jive an >independant label. >Those fuckers are making millions off selling their musical version of >ex-lax.
Well, that's what I meant when I said that it makes me wonder just what exactly makes a record label independent because, technically, Jive are. They are technically the biggest independent record label in the world. But I agree, somehow the new *nsync record just don't feel as independent to me as, say, the latest Tree Records release. So if anyone knows what specific characteristics define independent, I'd be interested in knowing. Marc Poirier --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-09-12 14:41alexis> So if anyone > knows what specific characteristics define independent, I'd be interested
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alexis
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Tue, 12 Sep 2000 16:41:55 +0200
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Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
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quoted 5 lines So if anyone> So if anyone > knows what specific characteristics define independent, I'd be interested > in knowing. > > Marc Poirier
Maybe a structure who release/makes records without having the money for goal ?! --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-09-12 16:56Ian Doylesorry, but since when did IDM have a definitive drum / sound effects / structure? for me t
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Ian Doyle
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Date:
Tue, 12 Sep 2000 11:56:27 EST
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Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
permalink · <F68no3gIpgYG2NH9jz2000079cd@hotmail.com>
sorry, but since when did IDM have a definitive drum / sound effects / structure? for me the whole idea of IDM is to be as creative as possible without limitations... for me IDM is the underground before the mainstream... it's the experiment before the bandwagon. although i do agree that IDM music will never catch on in the US, because most (all) pop acts rely on their videos and images to sell their music and often try to sell the image with it. but most IDM music makers are experimental and often extreme, and their sound is not too often accepted by the 'mainstream market', therefore they are not seen as money/image/trend makers, and therefore they do not get funded to sell the music. i know this'll start a nuclear war of words, and i apologise.
quoted 26 lines From: Cichli@aol.com>From: Cichli@aol.com >To: idm@hyperreal.org >Subject: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream >Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 15:55:38 EDT > >josh wrote: >[i give it a year, maybe less. "modern rock" is so stagnant we are due for >another Nirvana-style paradigm shift.......but "IDM" in it's current state >will never make it to the mainstream in the USA because there are no >vocals.] > >i'm actually starting a project right now with some friends like this. >it's >gonna be me on guitars/programming, my friend Nate on bass and my friend >Brandy on vocals. it's gonna have all the IDM drums, sound effects, and >structures with guitars and vocals. as far as the style, it'll probably >range from Tool and Deftones to Sarah McLachlan and Portishead. if it >works out it will be orignal to say the least, and it may even be a >mainstream kinda sound. who knows...... > > :jason (ecux) > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >
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2000-09-13 02:41Jon> > i think a lot of it has to do with familiarity. if you present someone > > I think an
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Jon
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Tue, 12 Sep 2000 21:41:25 -0500
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Re: [idm] IDM in the US mainstream
permalink · <39BEE955.D0368DBF@swbell.net>
quoted 10 lines i think a lot of it has to do with familiarity. if you present someone> > i think a lot of it has to do with familiarity. if you present someone > > I think an important thing to note here is definately familiarity. With rock > or alternative, there's a definite progression even from the early jazz and big > band music, the format has always been bass, guitar, drums vocal. I think the > absence of these conventions that have always been a part of contemporary > american music will make IDM a harder sell than it already is with the > mainstream. > > cdin
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