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RE: [idm] Re: lifejackets for lemmings

9 messages · 7 participants · spans 1 day · search this subject
◇ merged from 3 subjects: lifejackets for lemmings · long live idm · pens and pencils
2000-05-10 20:34: ruaridh : [idm] Re: pens and pencils
└─ 2000-05-10 21:38Alex Reynolds [idm] lifejackets for lemmings
2000-05-11 05:14Brock Landers Re: [idm] Re: lifejackets for lemmings
2000-05-11 13:09: ruaridh : [idm] Re: lifejackets for lemmings
2000-05-11 13:33Andrew Cowper RE: [idm] Re: lifejackets for lemmings
2000-05-11 16:21Rjyan Kidwell Re: [idm] Re: lifejackets for lemmings
├─ 2000-05-11 17:01Bill Wright Re: [idm] Re: lifejackets for lemmings
└─ 2000-05-11 18:49Alex Reynolds [idm] long live idm
2000-05-11 16:56Ernesto Ikerd Re: [idm] Re: lifejackets for lemmings
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2000-05-10 20:34: ruaridh :Well, leaving the matters of personal taste to the side for a moment.. >Is there no racial
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Wed, 10 May 2000 21:34:25 BST
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[idm] Re: pens and pencils
permalink · <20000510203425.76620.qmail@hotmail.com>
Well, leaving the matters of personal taste to the side for a moment..
quoted 1 line Is there no racial or political impact in NWA's lyrics?>Is there no racial or political impact in NWA's lyrics?
Of course there is, but that doesnt mean that a tribute to them has to be intrisically racial or political. Perhaps what the record celebrated was their sheer power - the astonishing ferocity which Kid 606, whether justifibly or not, perhpas feels an affinity with. I know that when *I* was at school, my first exposure to rap, indeed my first exposure to any music that wasnt anodyne chart drivel was through copied tapes of what turned out to be NWA. If i was to celebrate what i felt was great about them, it certainly wouldnt be the fact that i can identify with the issues of race or politics in the lyrics; but i still feel that their music is incredibly powerful and worth celebrating. So does this make me less worthy of appreciating them somehow? Of course not. Parts of the lyrics are left intact, and the feeling of rage is still there; why then do you see this as a knowing calculated statement about "theft of black culture" and not just a love-letter from an ardent fan?
quoted 2 lines Why is the white>Why is the white >vinyl stamped with a black label?
Good question; bad judgement, at the very least, on the part of the label i would say. But not a reflection on the artist or music.
quoted 4 lines Would you have posted the same response if you actually *liked* the>>Would you have posted the same response if you actually *liked* the >> >>record? >Is this a rhetorical question? Of course not. If I liked it I would >have >said so. (?)
I presume you're deliberately misunderstanding me; my point was to enquire as to whether you would have gone into this over-analysis if you'd liked the record, or if it's all merely needless justification for disliking it.
quoted 1 line .... but a little analysis always leads to some understanding.>.... but a little analysis always leads to some understanding.
...and over-analysis stifles enjoyment. There isnt a monster under every bed; likewise, someone with one hue who enjoys another slightly different persons work isnt always pursuing a sinister agenda. There is enough "cultural theft" taking place already; to we need to invent more? On to the matters of opinion...
quoted 4 lines There are very few>There are very few >people in the world who can make noise work, and most of them have no >affiliation with VVM. Their reputation is based largely on hype. Yes, >the >emperor is naked and has a hairy ass.
And i'm sure we're all impressed that you are bucking what you see as the trend, avoiding the herd, ignoring the hype blah blah blah. I personally think that half of VVMs output (old Tv themes, charity shop records etc. etc.) is puerile nonsense. But i dont let the fact that its on a label that have a bit of a buzz about them cloud my judgement. As far as i'm concerned, the 606 single and Caretaker CD are two of the best things i've heard in months, with the Stranger Pthalo release up there as well. But thats just my opinion.
quoted 6 lines The only Schematic ape who could be accused of aping Ae styles is R.>The only Schematic ape who could be accused of aping Ae styles is R. >Devine, and his work is still sharp and fresh. It's like listening to >Ae >if they cloned themselves back in `97 and the clone went in a >different >artistic direction, since there are distinct, divine >elements you can >hear in his stuff. As all art is derivative anyway, >I consider this "good >enough" as far as originality goes.
Even those who post to the list *praising* Schematics stuff admit the very large debt they owe. I'd rather listen to something a bit more interesting. ________________________________________________________ "I believe in the modern world. I believe in the automobile, and the Charleston, and the dry martini. I represent Invisibilism and *my* Gods have electric light bulbs for eyes. My Gods run on internal combustion engines." - Lady Edith Manning, 1924 R xx thevillageorchestra@hotmail.com Marcia Blaine Industries / Metal-On-Metal Records http://websites.ntl.com/~metal-on-metal/ __________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-05-10 21:38Alex ReynoldsAt 9:34 PM +0100 5/10/00, : ruaridh : wrote: >Well, leaving the matters of personal taste
From:
Alex Reynolds
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: ruaridh : ,
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Date:
Wed, 10 May 2000 17:38:37 -0400
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[idm] lifejackets for lemmings
Reply to:
[idm] Re: pens and pencils
permalink · <l03130303b53f7cdb9f65@[130.91.128.171]>
At 9:34 PM +0100 5/10/00, : ruaridh : wrote:
quoted 1 line Well, leaving the matters of personal taste to the side for a moment..>Well, leaving the matters of personal taste to the side for a moment..
Why? That's no fun at all.
quoted 6 lines Is there no racial or political impact in NWA's lyrics?>>Is there no racial or political impact in NWA's lyrics? > >Of course there is, but that doesnt mean that a tribute to them has to be >intrisically racial or political. Perhaps what the record celebrated was >their sheer power - the astonishing ferocity which Kid 606, whether >justifibly or not, perhpas feels an affinity with.
It's possible, but because of the release's design and music -- bad judgement call as it may be -- I feel there's enough to say there's more there than just banal rage.
quoted 4 lines ...Parts of the lyrics are left>...Parts of the lyrics are left >intact, and the feeling of rage is still there; why then do you see this as >a knowing calculated statement about "theft of black culture" and not just a >love-letter from an ardent fan?
Because: -- the white vinyl is stamped with a black label -- the label notes read like some kid auditioning to be a VJ -- the music itself seems pretty tame, in comparison with the original (and that's a statement of a kind in its own right)
quoted 6 lines Is this a rhetorical question? Of course not. If I liked it I would >have>>Is this a rhetorical question? Of course not. If I liked it I would >have >>said so. (?) > >I presume you're deliberately misunderstanding me; my point was to enquire >as to whether you would have gone into this over-analysis if you'd liked the >record, or if it's all merely needless justification for disliking it.
Feel free to read my reviews in Grooves and on the list archives if you're truly interested in what I write when I do like something. If anything, I could be accused of over-analyzing everything, good or bad. And I tend to give more thumbs up than down.
quoted 2 lines persons work isnt always pursuing a sinister agenda. There is enough>persons work isnt always pursuing a sinister agenda. There is enough >"cultural theft" taking place already; to we need to invent more?
Yes, I think it is a highly relevant issue in this era of well-paid, multi-platinum, hyphenated, guitar-rap acts. If this NWA remix is a satirical work, my hat goes off to Mr. Depedro.
quoted 5 lines affiliation with VVM. Their reputation is based largely on hype. Yes, >the>>affiliation with VVM. Their reputation is based largely on hype. Yes, >the >>emperor is naked and has a hairy ass. > >And i'm sure we're all impressed that you are bucking what you see as the >trend, avoiding the herd, ignoring the hype blah blah blah.
It's ironic that an independent like V/VM inspires this kind of worship. Didn't they promise to burn a bunch of IDM rareties awhile back in a blaze of righteous fire? I just dislike hypocrisy. More importantly, I do not respect the musical content of their stuff.
quoted 2 lines etc.) is puerile nonsense. But i dont let the fact that its on a label that>etc.) is puerile nonsense. But i dont let the fact that its on a label that >have a bit of a buzz about them cloud my judgement.
I did not decide to buy (or decide not to buy) Kid606's "Straight Outta Compton" based on whether it was on V/VM. In fact, I didn't know it was published through V/VM until I had it in my hands and looked at it. I bought it because it was an NWA remix project that sounded like a good idea on paper. FYI, I do about 98% of my buying "blind", via mail-order. The other 2% is composed of movie soundtracks and the occasional Britney Spears fix.
quoted 4 lines As far as i'm concerned,>As far as i'm concerned, >the 606 single and Caretaker CD are two of the best things i've heard in >months, with the Stranger Pthalo release up there as well. But thats just my >opinion.
As far as I'm concerned, all V/VM sounds pretty much the same, in that I don't play it more than once or twice before it quietly collects dust. But that's just my opinion.
quoted 2 lines Even those who post to the list *praising* Schematics stuff admit the very>Even those who post to the list *praising* Schematics stuff admit the very >large debt they owe. I'd rather listen to something a bit more interesting.
Just because they paid tDR to do some cover art doesn't make them Warp copycats. Yes, they owe a debt to their forerunners across the pond. But they have their own voice. I'll agree that there is a much wider range of artists putting out good releases, and Schematic's artists are only a few among the bunch. "Lily.." was a real treat, certainly. I was really impressed with Phoenicia, Delarosa+Asora, and 09's tracks, which sounded nothing like Autechre of any era. Best, A. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-05-11 05:14Brock LandersListen to what sounds good. fuck originality, music isnt a race to see who can make what k
From:
Brock Landers
To:
idm
Date:
Thu, 11 May 2000 01:14:20 -0400
Subject:
Re: [idm] Re: lifejackets for lemmings
permalink · <007e01bfbb07$c45d5780$0200000a@g>
Listen to what sounds good. fuck originality, music isnt a race to see who can make what kind of music first, its about enjoying sound, regardless of who is making it. now all of you shut up already...this thread is pathetic. -brock ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ernesto Ikerd" <IkerdEA@lmtas.lmco.com> To: "Rjyan Kidwell" <cex@tigerbeat6.com>; "International Damage Machines" <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 12:56 PM Subject: Re: [idm] Re: lifejackets for lemmings
quoted 2 lines but the fact that he's on Choc> > but the fact that he's on Choc > >Ind, a label you just don't dis around here, that complicated the
situation.
quoted 2 lines same goes for Schematic/Phoenecia/Richard Devine...> >same goes for Schematic/Phoenecia/Richard Devine... > >you just DONT talk smack about those guys on the list, at least not to
imply
quoted 1 line they are an "ae clone" in the vindictive way people say it about> >they are an "ae clone" in the vindictive way people say it about
Funkstorung
quoted 44 lines or any of these other> >or any of these other > > I think it has a lot to do with the fact that these artists interact with > the IDM list more. I think most, not all, people pull their punches a > bit when they run the risk of pissing off an artist to their face. I > remember a bit of back-pedalling when a nasty Ae thread complaining about > LP7 resulted in the discovery Ae was secretly mixing it up on a thread > incognito right before they unsubbed in disgust. It seemed quite a few > people tried to go on record after the dust settled that they DID like > Ae, but had issues with a SMALL part of their new work "...wait, i didnt > say I didnt LIKE Ae, I LOVE them, its just...." - funny stuff. > > After all, if you piss these gods off TOO much, next time your at a show > you wont be able to accost them backstage to burn a j, swill cough syrup > , or huff off of a gas can. They certainly wouldnt take a picture with > you to prove it happened, and the next day you wont be able to > not-so-subtley name drop to us all by telling us how 'nice' said artist > was at the big show! > > I think all the work put out by the artists subbed to this list is TOP > NOTCH myself. Genius, and refreshing! All of it- just golden - really, I > have it all on mp.. CD !!!! oh, it was vinyl only? thats what I meant, > vinyl. I want all their autographs, Im their biggest fan! if you see me > at the show, im the tall big guy with the vest - you know, each tiny > pocket filled with whatever their poison is. I think they are great so > lemme know if they get a few minutes in between sets, so we can talk > about 'gear'.... mind if I snap a few pix, good didnt think so! > > ernie > > > > Ernesto Ikerd, (817) 763-4795 > Company Graphics, Dept 17, MZ-4202 > Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company > Fort Worth, Texas > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >
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2000-05-11 13:09: ruaridh :Well, i had hoped that since most arguments of this type on the IDM list degenerate into n
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: ruaridh :
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Thu, 11 May 2000 14:09:55 BST
Subject:
[idm] Re: lifejackets for lemmings
permalink · <20000511130955.36049.qmail@hotmail.com>
Well, i had hoped that since most arguments of this type on the IDM list degenerate into name-calling and petty bickering, i might get to use some of my choicer insulting epithets. But if you do insist on responding with well-thought out replies... :)
quoted 3 lines Because:>Because: > > -- the white vinyl is stamped with a black label
I agree this was, as i siad previously, *at the very least* bad judgement. Thus i cannot answer; personally i would be interested to hear VVMs justification. I believe they're on the list, or at least have access to it....
quoted 1 line -- the label notes read like some kid auditioning to be a VJ> -- the label notes read like some kid auditioning to be a VJ
Well forgive my pre-conceptions, but i was under the impression that this was just Kid 606s way. Maybe it was meant to be satire, but i didnt even consider it until i read your post. Not everyone expresses themsleves in the same way.
quoted 2 lines -- the music itself seems pretty tame, in comparison with the >original> -- the music itself seems pretty tame, in comparison with the >original >(and that's a statement of a kind in its own right)
Well sure, if you dont like it. But i do think, although nothing close to the originals raw power, that this is his attempt to capture some of it. It is "angry-sounding", for want of a better metaphor. For me, its sufficient to indicate his reverence.
quoted 4 lines Feel free to read my reviews in Grooves and on the list archives if >you're>Feel free to read my reviews in Grooves and on the list archives if >you're >truly interested in what I write when I do like something. If >anything, I >could be accused of over-analyzing everything, good or bad. And I >tend to >give more thumbs up than down.
I'm well aware of your reviews, articles etc., and in the main enjoy them, if not always agreeing. But my point still remains; would you even have *considered* the possibility that this record was something other than tribute if you had actually liked it? Thats not a critique of you reviewing style, merely a genuinely puzzled question.
quoted 3 lines Yes, I think it is a highly relevant issue in this era of well-paid,>Yes, I think it is a highly relevant issue in this era of well-paid, >multi-platinum, hyphenated, guitar-rap acts. If this NWA remix is a >satirical work, my hat goes off to Mr. Depedro.
Well, i would agree if this were the first few bars of "Straight Outta.." looped with "Mr. Depedro" copying the lyrics over the top, on a major label with lots of publicity. Then it would be much easier to assume a cynical stance. But i think that as this is a limited run record on an obscure label, on 7" vinyl, that the release is really just a fan thing; out of love, not manipulation. I hardly see it, or any other similar release for that matter, soundtracking the next Gap ad.
quoted 4 lines It's ironic that an independent like V/VM inspires this kind of >worship.>It's ironic that an independent like V/VM inspires this kind of >worship. >Didn't they promise to burn a bunch of IDM rareties awhile back in a >blaze >of righteous fire? I just dislike hypocrisy. More importantly, I do >not >respect the musical content of their stuff.
Once again, i offer no kind of worship. I like a good record. (And i apologise for being childishly pedantic, but it was Diskono who were going to burn the rarities). If you dont like it, then fine. But simply saying "i dont like it" should be enough without having to create laborious justifications.
quoted 6 lines I did not decide to buy (or decide not to buy) Kid606's "Straight >Outta>I did not decide to buy (or decide not to buy) Kid606's "Straight >Outta >Compton" based on whether it was on V/VM. In fact, I didn't know it >was >published through V/VM until I had it in my hands and looked at it. I >bought it because it was an NWA remix project that sounded like a >good >idea >on paper.
My point was that the strength of your critiscism was perhaps based on the apparent "hype" surrounding the label.
quoted 3 lines Just because they paid tDR to do some cover art doesn't make them >Warp>Just because they paid tDR to do some cover art doesn't make them >Warp >copycats. Yes, they owe a debt to their forerunners across the pond. >But >they have their own voice.
I didnt say they were Warp copycats. I've listened to all their releases since the first PBO 12" and, that release aside, have disliked most of them as i fell they, like the less imaginative MAS releases, owe more than a debt to Autechre.
quoted 6 lines I'll agree that there is a much wider range of artists putting out >good>I'll agree that there is a much wider range of artists putting out >good >releases, and Schematic's artists are only a few among the bunch.> > >"Lily.." >was a real treat, certainly. I was really impressed with Phoenicia, >Delarosa+Asora, and 09's tracks, which sounded nothing like Autechre >of >any era.
As it happens the 09 and R Devine tracks on "Lily.." were much more to my taste than usual. I just loathed the other tracks with a passion. ________________________________________________________ "I believe in the modern world. I believe in the automobile, and the Charleston, and the dry martini. I represent Invisibilism and *my* Gods have electric light bulbs for eyes. My Gods run on internal combustion engines." - Lady Edith Manning, 1924 R xx thevillageorchestra@hotmail.com Marcia Blaine Industries / Metal-On-Metal Records http://websites.ntl.com/~metal-on-metal/ __________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-05-11 13:33Andrew Cowper> >Because: > > > > -- the white vinyl is stamped with a black label > > I agree this was,
From:
Andrew Cowper
To:
': ruaridh :' ,
Cc:
Date:
Thu, 11 May 2000 14:33:58 +0100
Subject:
RE: [idm] Re: lifejackets for lemmings
permalink · <61E3BAA0DA54D311A91D00508B44EBFF8806ED@postman-pat.nettec.co.uk>
quoted 8 lines Because:> >Because: > > > > -- the white vinyl is stamped with a black label > > I agree this was, as i siad previously, *at the very least* > bad judgement. > Thus i cannot answer; personally i would be interested to hear VVMs > justification.
quoted 5 lines -- the label notes read like some kid auditioning to be a VJ> > -- the label notes read like some kid auditioning to be a VJ > > Well forgive my pre-conceptions, but i was under the > impression that this > was just Kid 606s way.
You seem to be spending a lot of time trying to figure out why Kid606 / V/Vm did what they did with this release. Frankly what they were thinking is less important than how we interpret what they said/did. They made an ambiguous statement with this record. It must be ambiguous, or we wouldn't be discussing it. Therefore it is open to interpretation. The mere fact that it could be interpreted as a political statement confirms its status as one. Hip hop is so profoundly wrapped up in black culture that for a white person just to be listening to it (let alone making it, or remixing it) makes a statement about the relationship between white/black cultures. This is also a political statement. Culture is politics. And me commenting on this fact also has political implications. And so does me commenting on that fact. CheersAndrewC. And that one! ;) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-05-11 16:21Rjyan Kidwellcheers to you guys, ruairdh, alex.... this is a great conversation. > >Just because they p
From:
Rjyan Kidwell
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: ruaridh : , , Rjyan Kidwell
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Date:
Thu, 11 May 2000 12:21:14 -0400
Subject:
Re: [idm] Re: lifejackets for lemmings
permalink · <004a01bfbb64$ef1333c0$6725dc80@RES.JHU.EDU>
cheers to you guys, ruairdh, alex.... this is a great conversation.
quoted 6 lines Just because they paid tDR to do some cover art doesn't make them >Warp> >Just because they paid tDR to do some cover art doesn't make them >Warp > >copycats. Yes, they owe a debt to their forerunners across the pond. >But > >they have their own voice. > > I didnt say they were Warp copycats. I've listened to all their releases > since the first PBO 12" and, that release aside, have disliked most of
them
quoted 1 line as i fell they, like the less imaginative MAS releases, owe more than a> as i fell they, like the less imaginative MAS releases, owe more than a
debt
quoted 1 line to Autechre.> to Autechre.
now, i'm sorry to throw another post into the fray on this but... my particular problem with this whole "Ae clone" business is that almost everyone levels this criticism inconsistently. as you said, alex, they "owe more than a debt to Autechre," but they don't get the dreaded label of "Autechre clones." a lot of people on this list seem to agree with you, i think. which sort of puzzles me... it seems that the only time people really voice their angst against the "autechre clones" is whenever someone wants to 1) rail against how shitty "the list's tastes" are or how shitty "IDM is nowadays," in order to feel self-righteous or cutting-edge in their own musical taste, or 2) explain how great X label or group (sometimes their OWN group our label) is because they DON'T sound like "Autechre clones." that makes the whole thing suspect to begin with, for me. it seems like the giveaway way to build up yourself/someone else on the list nowadays... most often i see people just blindly attacking "Ae clones" with no specific instances of who these "Ae clones" are. when they DO give specifics, i bet you 9 times out of 10 they mention funkstrorung. funkstorung has been dissed by autechre, and for a long time has caught heat on this list for sounding like Autechre. and not without a certain amount of justification, of course.. they, as alex has put it, "owe more than a debt to Autechre." but most importantly, i think it's the precedent set on this list that has people cutting on them for being an Ae clone left and right. and i seriously think it's mostly the vocal elite on this list who have such a huge problem with funkstorung. i mean,... Funkstorung sell records. lots of records. so who else goes on this supposedly endless list of "ae clones?" the people using this phrase might be referring to the many artists on mp3.com with the "mxkkr.tolop" track titles and admitted influence by Autechre, but no one is seriously going to harp on that crazy circus which is mp3.com, it makes you seem kind of pathetic. Boards were brought up recently, but quickly dispelled. Boards are too respected, so their debt/similarity/whatever to Ae is irrelevant, apparently. While was very quickly brought up and put down when "lock" came out... i figure since he was an unsigned, unproven artist he was fair game for getting the "Scarlet A," but the fact that he's on Choc Ind, a label you just don't dis around here, that complicated the situation. same goes for Schematic/Phoenecia/Richard Devine... you just DONT talk smack about those guys on the list, at least not to imply they are an "ae clone" in the vindictive way people say it about Funkstorung or any of these other eh. just my idea. i'm sure this isn't a 100% correct explanation of the "Ae clone" witch trials going on here, but maybe something to be considered. -rk --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-05-11 17:01Bill WrightWhy aren't there any "Aphex clones"? Don't tell me that there aren't more people out there
From:
Bill Wright
To:
Date:
Thu, 11 May 2000 13:01:19 -0400
Subject:
Re: [idm] Re: lifejackets for lemmings
Reply to:
Re: [idm] Re: lifejackets for lemmings
permalink · <4.2.2.20000511125504.00b7e8a0@mail.clemson.edu>
Why aren't there any "Aphex clones"? Don't tell me that there aren't more people out there who respect Aphex Twin a whole lot more than Autechre (maybe in the narrow mindset of this list, we may not think it is true, but in general I think it is very true). Maybe because what Aphex is doing is impossible to even hint at, much less copy. Same deal with Boards of Canada--I don't think their will be any "BoC clones". Why? Because Autechre is a lot easier to copy simply because they focus on the technical rather than emotional side of their music--or at least this is what people who think there are "Autechre Clones" seem to notice.
quoted 6 lines now, i'm sorry to throw another post into the fray on this but...>now, i'm sorry to throw another post into the fray on this but... >my particular problem with this whole "Ae clone" business is that almost >everyone levels this criticism inconsistently. as you said, alex, they "owe >more than a debt to Autechre," but they don't get the dreaded label of >"Autechre clones." a lot of people on this list seem to agree with you, i >think. which sort of puzzles me...
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2000-05-11 18:49Alex ReynoldsAt 12:21 PM -0400 5/11/00, Rjyan Kidwell wrote: >cheers to you guys, ruairdh, alex.... thi
From:
Alex Reynolds
To:
Rjyan Kidwell , : ruaridh : ,
Cc:
Date:
Thu, 11 May 2000 14:49:07 -0400
Subject:
[idm] long live idm
Reply to:
Re: [idm] Re: lifejackets for lemmings
permalink · <l03130308b540a645b6c9@[130.91.128.171]>
At 12:21 PM -0400 5/11/00, Rjyan Kidwell wrote:
quoted 8 lines cheers to you guys, ruairdh, alex.... this is a great conversation.>cheers to you guys, ruairdh, alex.... this is a great conversation. >... >now, i'm sorry to throw another post into the fray on this but... >my particular problem with this whole "Ae clone" business is that almost >everyone levels this criticism inconsistently. as you said, alex, they "owe >more than a debt to Autechre," but they don't get the dreaded label of >"Autechre clones." a lot of people on this list seem to agree with you, i >think. which sort of puzzles me...
I'm not sure I said what you attributed to me; I think that was ruaridh. In any case, I don't think Schematic owes a debt to Autechre specifically, although Ae certainly counts as a major influence. I think Schematic artists, and all current North American electronic musicians for that matter, owe a great deal to the pioneering work done by the whole lot of UK artists that had their turn in Warp/Skam/Clear/Ninja Tune's history. In turn, those fellows owe a lot to the Eno, Kraftwerk, Stockhausen, and Krautrock era of the 60s and 70s. This has been said before. Art is an interpretive, evolving organic process, and this is no different. So these guys all put electronic sound on the map for the benefit of the American audience, but I wouldn't say that Aphex is a blatant carbon copy of Eno, any more than I would say Devine is a xerox of Ae. I mean, that's silly. I can't and won't comment on Funkstoerung as I only have a couple of their releases and I can't say I'm too impressed. To prevent a "why are you baggin' on my deutschboys" flame war from starting, I'll just leave it at that.
quoted 3 lines DON'T sound like "Autechre clones." that makes the whole thing suspect to>DON'T sound like "Autechre clones." that makes the whole thing suspect to >begin with, for me. it seems like the giveaway way to build up >yourself/someone else on the list nowadays...
I'll reiterate my former proposal to the list, a little more seriously now: Take a day off the IDM list for reflective meditation. You guys are lucky enough to be born in a time period when you have enough money and enough sense to appreciate this music for what it is. Relax and enjoy. I think I'll start a rock band -- I'll call it, "The Autechre Clones". I can almost see the ladies in the front row sigh in unison as I pull off yet another fractal-based air guitar solo, all while grimacing melodically in a 7/8 time signature.
quoted 3 lines seem kind of pathetic. Boards were brought up recently, but quickly>seem kind of pathetic. Boards were brought up recently, but quickly >dispelled. Boards are too respected, so their debt/similarity/whatever to Ae >is irrelevant, apparently.
Hey, wow, hold on just a second. How do Boards sound like Autechre? This is all shocking news to me. Their "hiscores" album came out around the same time as Gescom's "Key Nell" EP -- both were groundbreaking and totally dissimilar. (?) Yrs, Alex Alex Reynolds SAS Computing / Biology University of Pennsylvania Philadelphia, PA 19104-6228 V +1 215 573.2818 / F +1 215 898.8780 http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~reynolda/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-05-11 16:56Ernesto Ikerd> but the fact that he's on Choc >Ind, a label you just don't dis around here, that compli
From:
Ernesto Ikerd
To:
Rjyan Kidwell , International Damage Machines
Date:
Thu, 11 May 2000 11:56:09 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] Re: lifejackets for lemmings
permalink · <200005111654.LAA11848@cliffy.lmtas.lmco.com>
quoted 6 lines but the fact that he's on Choc> but the fact that he's on Choc >Ind, a label you just don't dis around here, that complicated the situation. >same goes for Schematic/Phoenecia/Richard Devine... >you just DONT talk smack about those guys on the list, at least not to imply >they are an "ae clone" in the vindictive way people say it about Funkstorung >or any of these other
I think it has a lot to do with the fact that these artists interact with the IDM list more. I think most, not all, people pull their punches a bit when they run the risk of pissing off an artist to their face. I remember a bit of back-pedalling when a nasty Ae thread complaining about LP7 resulted in the discovery Ae was secretly mixing it up on a thread incognito right before they unsubbed in disgust. It seemed quite a few people tried to go on record after the dust settled that they DID like Ae, but had issues with a SMALL part of their new work "...wait, i didnt say I didnt LIKE Ae, I LOVE them, its just...." - funny stuff. After all, if you piss these gods off TOO much, next time your at a show you wont be able to accost them backstage to burn a j, swill cough syrup , or huff off of a gas can. They certainly wouldnt take a picture with you to prove it happened, and the next day you wont be able to not-so-subtley name drop to us all by telling us how 'nice' said artist was at the big show! I think all the work put out by the artists subbed to this list is TOP NOTCH myself. Genius, and refreshing! All of it- just golden - really, I have it all on mp.. CD !!!! oh, it was vinyl only? thats what I meant, vinyl. I want all their autographs, Im their biggest fan! if you see me at the show, im the tall big guy with the vest - you know, each tiny pocket filled with whatever their poison is. I think they are great so lemme know if they get a few minutes in between sets, so we can talk about 'gear'.... mind if I snap a few pix, good didnt think so! ernie Ernesto Ikerd, (817) 763-4795 Company Graphics, Dept 17, MZ-4202 Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company Fort Worth, Texas --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org