IDM Mailing Archive

Whats this incessant need to control the listener? Blasting someone's ear drums to get their attention? Why do you even need attention? Your music should speak for itself no matter what decibel its played at. Lecturing the people who come to your performance on how to enjoy music? How stuck up! Might as well call this list "PROG ROCK", all those guys thought they were a lot more INTELLIGENT than everyone else playing rock that wasn't 4/4, walking around dressed in black, scratching their chins, immersed in deep thoughts...bah.... Thank god that bullshit is over. -skitzobiatch

quoted 33 lines I guess it all really depends on the music. I have been to countless

> > I guess it all really depends on the music. I have been to countless > > electronic shows were the audience felt detached from the laptop >performance > > and began socializing instead. The key, in my opinion, is to be so god >damn > > loud that they can't hear each other talk, that is if the sounds system > > allows it. This has worked for me in the past, even with very >atmospheric > > material. > > > > Loud=attention. > >Hosting shows in my warehouse my strategy has been the opposite: create an >environment that is clearly intended for listening, not socializing, >during the performances. > >To this end I try to plant 'cues' to people that they're at a concert, not >at a bar/club... including no beer, making it dark during the >performances, posting a sign on the door saying no ins/outs during sets >[though we actually do let people in ;)] etc... > >All about creating context and steering consensual expectations. >This is the advantage I guess of controlling a space! > > aaron > > ghede@well.com > http://www.quietamerican.org > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

_________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 1 line Whats this incessant need to control the listener?

> Whats this incessant need to control the listener?

Notice I said control the *space,* i.e. my house. I decide to make a place people can listen, not a club/bar, since it's first about the music, not the socializing. Everyone who runs a performance space decides conciously or unconciously what kind of space they want. I don't see that this is 'controlling the listener.'

quoted 2 lines Lecturing the people who come to your performance on how to enjoy music?

> Lecturing the people who come to your performance on how to enjoy music? > How stuck up!

Lecturing? huh? Who said anything about lecturing? By telling people to be quiet during sets!? I've been at tons of shows where that's a lecture a lot of people could have used, and no apologies about it. I think this thread got started because someone was complaining that they went to enjoy Mum (their own way) and couldn't because other people were in the space who made that difficult/impossible: ie were being rude to the people around them. Ie who came there to get fucked up, not to listen to Mum. In other words, they had to fight the environment to listen. Hoping for (or in my case building) spaces where that kind of rudeness is discouraged hardly seems to be some kind of holier-than-thou gesture. I don't care how people choose to listen, as long as they don't ruin things for other people. People sleep at half my shows during quiet sets! I 'lectured':

quoted 5 lines To this end I try to plant 'cues' to people that they're at a concert, not

> >To this end I try to plant 'cues' to people that they're at a concert, not > >at a bar/club... including no beer, making it dark during the > > > >All about creating context and steering consensual expectations. > >This is the advantage I guess of controlling a space!

aaron ghede@well.com http://www.quietamerican.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

yo, everybody, chillout! wouldnt you say that going to a music show is somewhat like going to see a movie? In most cases, You pay money to see and hear the performance. Arent you disturbed when people speak over it? Especially electronic music, which is more of an audio experience than a visual one. THat's my personal opinion...i think there's 2 solutions to this problem: a. provide an area of separation between the social and performance spaces. b. blast the fuckin music so there wont be any probs w/ people talkin shit over it..haha@! d --- Aaron Ximm <ghede@well.com> wrote:

quoted 62 lines Whats this incessant need to control the listener?

> > Whats this incessant need to control the listener? > > Notice I said control the *space,* i.e. my house. > > I decide to make a place people can listen, not a > club/bar, since it's > first about the music, not the socializing. > Everyone who runs a > performance space decides conciously or unconciously > what kind of space > they want. I don't see that this is 'controlling the > listener.' > > > Lecturing the people who come to your performance > on how to enjoy music? > > How stuck up! > > Lecturing? huh? Who said anything about lecturing? > By telling people to > be quiet during sets!? I've been at tons of shows > where that's a lecture > a lot of people could have used, and no apologies > about it. > > I think this thread got started because someone was > complaining that they > went to enjoy Mum (their own way) and couldn't > because other people were > in the space who made that difficult/impossible: ie > were being rude to the > people around them. Ie who came there to get fucked > up, not to listen to > Mum. In other words, they had to fight the > environment to listen. > > Hoping for (or in my case building) spaces where > that kind of rudeness is > discouraged hardly seems to be some kind of > holier-than-thou gesture. > I don't care how people choose to listen, as long as > they don't ruin > things for other people. People sleep at half my > shows during quiet sets! > > I 'lectured': > > >To this end I try to plant 'cues' to people that > they're at a concert, not > > >at a bar/club... including no beer, making it > dark during the > > > > > >All about creating context and steering > consensual expectations. > > >This is the advantage I guess of controlling a > space! > > aaron > > ghede@well.com > http://www.quietamerican.org > > >

---------------------------------------------------------------------

quoted 5 lines To unsubscribe, e-mail:

> To unsubscribe, e-mail: > idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: > idm-help@hyperreal.org >

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

--- ff g <glassmuseum@yahoo.com> wrote: <yo, everybody, chillout! wouldnt you say that going to a music show is somewhat like going to see a movie? In most cases, You pay money to see and hear the performance. Arent you disturbed when people speak over it? > No, not at all. Sometimes the only time you get to see friends are at shows, and everyone pops out of the woodwork, that rarely happens to me at the movies. So it's natural to talk to friends whereever you see them I couldn't care less if people are talking during a show, but during a movie is annoying. Why you may ask? If I'm interested in the movie I might miss something something key to the plot, which might lessen the experience. Shows are generally loud enough that even if people are talking I can still hear it just fine.

quoted 7 lines Especially electronic music, which is more of

> Especially electronic music, which is more of > an audio experience than a visual one. > THat's my personal opinion...i think there's 2 > solutions to this problem: > > a. provide an area of separation between the social > and performance spaces.

Sounds like BS to me. If there's a lobby for people to talk fine, but you are always going to have people talking. Going to a show is like going to a party you are there to have fun, how you choose to do so is up to individual. Some people are going to drink, dance, some socialize and some will analyze.

quoted 2 lines b. blast the fuckin music so there wont be any

> b. blast the fuckin music so there wont be any > probs w/ people talkin shit over it..haha@!

That reminds me of a story. I had a few friends that went to see Techno Animal. Apparently their set are ridiculously loud, and there were tons of people constantly flipping them off and shouting obscenities. My friend Coby went up to speak to them after the show because he felt bad for the artists. They said they didn't mind, and they actually liked it, and said they get that everywhere. He later thought that maybe they were telling the audience fuck you by playing their music at such a ridiculous volume. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, Aaron Ximm wrote:

quoted 6 lines Lecturing the people who come to your performance on how to enjoy music?

> > Lecturing the people who come to your performance on how to enjoy music? > > How stuck up! > > Lecturing? huh? Who said anything about lecturing? By telling people to > be quiet during sets!? I've been at tons of shows where that's a lecture > a lot of people could have used, and no apologies about it.

don't knock it, aaron's space is very successful. also one of the more unique concert experiences to be had. there are assumptions and ground rules at any kind of performance - even if it's just "don't climb on stage and piss on the band" or "please remain seated during performance so you don't distract the orchestra." i think "be quiet because you are listening to quiet, nuanced music" is extremely reasonable and not lecturing at all.

quoted 2 lines I don't care how people choose to listen, as long as they don't ruin

> I don't care how people choose to listen, as long as they don't ruin > things for other people. People sleep at half my shows during quiet sets!

i sure did! but i consider that a good thing. it was more otherworldly that way, in and out of consciousness... j --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

At 10:42 PM 10/7/2002 +0000, you wrote:

quoted 13 lines Whats this incessant need to control the listener?

>Whats this incessant need to control the listener? > >Blasting someone's ear drums to get their attention? Why do you even need >attention? Your music should speak for itself no matter what decibel its >played at. > >Lecturing the people who come to your performance on how to enjoy music? >How stuck up! > >Might as well call this list "PROG ROCK", all those guys thought they were >a lot more INTELLIGENT than everyone else playing rock that wasn't 4/4, >walking around dressed in black, scratching their chins, immersed in deep >thoughts...bah.... Thank god that bullshit is over.

You know that Rush is still touring, right? *shudder* derek ------- eggytoast.com ------- kills germs on contact --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 3 lines it's not a need to control the individual listener.

>it's not a need to control the individual listener. >it's a part of the idea that when you write you music, >you hope it will effect people a certain way.

***Of course you hope it will affect people...But you can't EXPECT it will or EXPECT people to stand in awe of the performer. If people who come to listen to it are being really annoying then maybe the real reason is that the music isn't that great. Many people on this list seem to expect the audience praying at the stage and seem to get offended if people actually enjoy each other's company.

quoted 1 line music is communication.

>music is communication.

****YES, AND communication goes both ways. Its not just you talking to the audience its also the audience responding. Maybe people don't like the music and they talk louder...maybe they're dancing and laughing...maybe they enjoy the music and they are discussing it with their friends.

quoted 3 lines if i were talking

>if i were talking >to you and you just started talking to someone else, >i'd have a right to get pissed off, no?

***I would hope you wouldn't talk to me for an hour or two and NOT let me communicate with you ;)

quoted 7 lines that's what music is... obviously there are situations

>that's what music is... obviously there are situations >where it's alright to talk over music, and even >preferable... when brian eno spoke about his early >ambient music he said that he wanted to write a music >that people didn't focus on or listen to in an active >sense, he wanted it to be a part of the din of the >room.

****That's EXACTLY how I feel.

quoted 2 lines who doesn't crave attention. i don't make music to

>who doesn't crave attention. i don't make music to >be ignored... who does?

***I don't make music because I crave attention, I do it because its fun and if I ever play it live that's great if not then I'll put it on a cd and play it in the car. If someone likes it of course it feels great to connect but I would never dream of telling someone to 'shut up and listen'. Another thing to look at is...if the majority of people seem bored and feel compelled to talk over the music then maybe the music is to blame. Not the people. skitzobitch _________________________________________________________________ Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

They have a really strong movement going right? Thank GOD that bullshit is over! ;)

quoted 17 lines You know that Rush is still touring, right?

> >You know that Rush is still touring, right? > >*shudder* > >derek > >------- >eggytoast.com >------- >kills germs on contact > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

_________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org