179,854Messages
9,130Senders
30Years
342mboxes

← archive index

Re: [idm] [OT] prog

36 messages · 18 participants · spans 2 days · search this subject
◇ merged from 4 subjects: [ot] pink floyd recommendations - jethro tull! · [ot] pink floyd recommendations - yes! · [ot] prog · [ot] progprog
2002-03-12 23:58lysaabi Re: [idm] [OT] Pink Floyd recommendations - Jethro Tull!
└─ 2002-03-13 00:06Aaron Ximm Re: [idm] [OT] Pink Floyd recommendations - Yes!
├─ 2002-03-13 00:43Andrei Re: [idm] [OT] prog
│ └─ 2002-03-13 00:53omz Re: [idm] [OT] prog
│ ├─ 2002-03-13 02:22Mxyzptlk Re: [idm] [OT] prog
│ ├─ 2002-03-13 04:47dj pie Re: [idm] [OT] prog
│ └─ 2002-03-13 09:55Irene McC Re: [idm] [OT] prog
│ └─ 2002-03-14 12:20Colin Buttimer Re: [idm] [OT] prog
└─ 2002-03-13 01:30Mxyzptlk Re: [idm] [OT] Pink Floyd recommendations - Yes!
└─ 2002-03-13 05:48Aaron Ximm Re: [idm] [OT] Pink Floyd recommendations - Yes!
└─ 2002-03-13 14:44Mxyzptlk Re: [idm] [OT] Pink Floyd recommendations - Yes!
2002-03-13 03:14donna summer Re: [idm] [OT] prog
└─ 2002-03-13 04:35Mxyzptlk Re: [idm] [OT] prog
2002-03-13 14:40Re: [idm] [OT] prog
2002-03-13 22:36donna summer Re: [idm] [OT] prog
├─ 2002-03-13 21:43omz Re: [idm] [OT] prog
└─ 2002-03-14 00:02Andrei Re: [idm] [OT] prog
└─ 2002-03-14 00:25omz Re: [idm] [OT] prog
└─ 2002-03-14 00:45Andrei Re: [idm] [OT] prog
└─ 2002-03-14 00:54omz Re: [idm] [OT] prog
└─ 2002-03-14 02:42Andrei Re: [idm] [OT] prog
├─ 2002-03-14 06:34Greg Smith Re: [idm] [OT] prog
│ └─ 2002-03-14 07:39Andrei Re: [idm] [OT] prog
│ ├─ 2002-03-14 07:54Ed Hall Re: [idm] [OT] prog
│ └─ 2002-03-14 08:06Greg Smith Re: [idm] [OT] progprog
└─ 2002-03-14 13:14omz Re: [idm] [OT] prog
└─ 2002-03-14 18:45Andrei Re: [idm] [OT] prog
2002-03-13 23:52wogman Re: [idm] [OT] prog
2002-03-14 01:19[idm] [OT] prog
├─ 2002-03-14 02:59Andrei Re: [idm] [OT] prog
└─ 2002-03-14 06:23Howard Shih Re: [idm] [OT] prog
2002-03-14 04:30Michael Upton Re: [idm] [OT] prog
2002-03-14 07:23[idm] [OT] prog
2002-03-14 12:56donna summer Re: [idm] [OT] prog
2002-03-14 15:37Joyrex Re: [idm] [OT] prog
2002-03-14 18:49Re: [idm] [OT] prog
expand allcollapse allclick any summary to toggle that message
2002-03-12 23:58lysaabiHey if your gonna do a time warp, why not check out some old Jethro Tull - say fer instanc
From:
lysaabi
To:
, Jan! ,
Date:
Wed, 13 Mar 2002 07:58:25 +0800
Subject:
Re: [idm] [OT] Pink Floyd recommendations - Jethro Tull!
permalink · <20020312235827.1444.qmail@earthlink.net>
Hey if your gonna do a time warp, why not check out some old Jethro Tull - say fer instance, Aqualung...? Not psychedelic per se, but I think you'll like it. Interesting (or not) tidbit - was it the first year there was a grammy for heavy metal band that Jethro Tull won? hee hee - Jethro Tull, a heavy metal band??? ha! Lisa ----- Original Message ----- From: Mxyzptlk <jpklein@telocity.com> Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:30:06 -0600 To: "Jan!" <j.moesen@student.unimaas.nl>,idm-l <idm@hyperreal.org> Subject: Re: [idm] [OT] Pink Floyd recommendations
quoted 41 lines The early work (prolly up to Ummagumma and Atom Heart Mother) is a bit more> The early work (prolly up to Ummagumma and Atom Heart Mother) is a bit more > psychedelic - with the possible exception of the singles "Arnold Layne" and > See Emily Play" - than the later, more calmed Floyd. The more they got > away from Syd Barrett's influence, the more their sound became what I would > call "tempered psychedelic". Keep in mind that they began in - what? '65 or > '66. "Piper at the Gates of Dawn" and "A Saucerful of Secrets" were both > ***OLD*** school psychedelia (and, I'm pretty sure were repackaged and > remastered as a 2xcd). Ummagumma is still pretty intense as is Atom Heart > Mother, but the band begins to morph into the 'quieter insanity" mode with > "Meddle" and this sound is reflected in places on "Obscurred By Clouds" as > well. IMO, they reached the pinnacle of this aspect of their career with > "Dark Side of the Moon" - a tour de force even if it has been played to > death and beyond in my aged ears. The songs you mention are from later in > their journey ("The Wall", "Animals", "Wish You Were Here") and while > others will most certainly disagree with me, I have always considered those > titles to be 'past the prime' of Pink Floyd and part of their resting on > laurels phase. If you want to investigate their catalog, I'd suggest > Ummagumma for something a bit more out-of control than what you've heard. > Jump to "Meddle" and if that sounds good to you, grab DSOTM. > > > At 02:00 PM 3/12/2002, Jan! wrote: > >I've been listening to this MP3 from Pink Floyd quite a lot recently. It's > >called "shine on you crazy diamond (parts 1-7)". It's about 17 minutes > >long and actually sounds like pre-post-rock to me :-) > > > >I don't know much of Pink Floyd's other work, just the stuff like "brick > >in a wall" and "we don't need no education" - heck, I don't even know the > >proper song names. > > > >I was wondering if you could give me some pointers for stuff in a similar > >vein: a bit more like crazy diamond than brick wall. How much of their > >work is psychedelic-ish? > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >
-- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-03-13 00:06Aaron Ximm> Hey if your gonna do a time warp, why not check out some old Jethro Tull - say fer insta
From:
Aaron Ximm
To:
lysaabi
Cc:
, Jan! ,
Date:
Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:06:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject:
Re: [idm] [OT] Pink Floyd recommendations - Yes!
Reply to:
Re: [idm] [OT] Pink Floyd recommendations - Jethro Tull!
permalink · <Pine.SOL.4.42.0203121601450.24672-100000@well.com>
quoted 2 lines Hey if your gonna do a time warp, why not check out some old Jethro Tull - say fer instanc> Hey if your gonna do a time warp, why not check out some old Jethro Tull - say fer instance, Aqualung...? > Not psychedelic per se, but I think you'll like it.
Uh oh, this is a very slippery slope. But of course, you have to then also listen to langorous Yes -- e.g. Close to the Edge, and its sequels which in a better universe would have been correctly named OVER the edge, Tales from Topographic Oceans and Relayer. Sprawling, intricate, undanceable, meticulously produced (to a very personal aesthetic) -- why, one step more and you're at Can, and perhaps swimming the Ur-sea from which IDM might have sprung via Kraftwerk. Well, maybe. (Blow off course and you end up in the Zappa archipelago. There there be monsters.) Re: PF, my heart is always with "Echoes" on Meddle. Re: psychedelia... dukes of stratosphere, collected on CD. (Anyone familiar with those weird solo andy partridge albums?) Oh, such innocent days those were.. aaron ghede@well.com http://www.quietamerican.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-03-13 00:43AndreiDudes, if you wanna hear prog whose pretensions are almost bearable check out mid-70's era
From:
Andrei
To:
Date:
Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:43:17 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
Reply to:
Re: [idm] [OT] Pink Floyd recommendations - Yes!
permalink · <Pine.SGI.4.40.0203121921450.1334788-100000@shell01.TheWorld.com>
Dudes, if you wanna hear prog whose pretensions are almost bearable check out mid-70's era King Crimson: "Larks' Tongues in Aspic" "Starless and Bible Black" "Red" and the various live recordings from that period which have appeared in recent years. And if you wanna hear prog with impossible time signatures done by people who can actually improvise I'd suggest the first 2 Mahavishnu Orchestra albums. Truth is the only group which might be labeled prog that I can honestly say I like are This Heat. And as far as Pink Floyd, my recommendation would be "Piper At The Gates Of Dawn". Really, really great. I also like "1967: The First Three Singles" cuz it's the only place to find "Apples and Oranges", a song I personally really love, besides the box set. Syd, man ! Andrei On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, Aaron Ximm wrote:
quoted 19 lines Hey if your gonna do a time warp, why not check out some old Jethro Tull - say fer instanc> > Hey if your gonna do a time warp, why not check out some old Jethro Tull - say fer instance, Aqualung...? > > Not psychedelic per se, but I think you'll like it. > > Uh oh, this is a very slippery slope. But of course, you have to then > also listen to langorous Yes -- e.g. Close to the Edge, and its sequels > which in a better universe would have been correctly named OVER the edge, > Tales from Topographic Oceans and Relayer. Sprawling, intricate, > undanceable, meticulously produced (to a very personal aesthetic) -- why, > one step more and you're at Can, and perhaps swimming the Ur-sea from > which IDM might have sprung via Kraftwerk. Well, maybe. (Blow off course > and you end up in the Zappa archipelago. There there be monsters.) > > Re: PF, my heart is always with "Echoes" on Meddle. > > Re: psychedelia... dukes of stratosphere, collected on CD. (Anyone > familiar with those weird solo andy partridge albums?) > > Oh, such innocent days those were.. > aaron
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-03-13 00:53omz>Dudes, if you wanna hear prog whose pretensions are almost bearable >check out mid-70's e
From:
omz
To:
Date:
Tue, 12 Mar 2002 18:53:32 -0600
Subject:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
Reply to:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
permalink · <p05010401b8b45368741b@[64.81.118.51]>
quoted 6 lines Dudes, if you wanna hear prog whose pretensions are almost bearable>Dudes, if you wanna hear prog whose pretensions are almost bearable >check out mid-70's era King Crimson: > >"Larks' Tongues in Aspic" >"Starless and Bible Black" >"Red"
Three absolutely essential albums. -- ^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^- omz beautamous loaf recordings http://www.hotweird.com/loaf/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-03-13 02:22MxyzptlkAt 06:53 PM 3/12/2002, omz wrote: >>Dudes, if you wanna hear prog whose pretensions are al
From:
Mxyzptlk
To:
omz ,
Date:
Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:22:15 -0600
Subject:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
Reply to:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
permalink · <5.1.0.14.2.20020312201846.02476240@pop3.norton.antivirus>
At 06:53 PM 3/12/2002, omz wrote:
quoted 8 lines Dudes, if you wanna hear prog whose pretensions are almost bearable>>Dudes, if you wanna hear prog whose pretensions are almost bearable >>check out mid-70's era King Crimson: >> >>"Larks' Tongues in Aspic" >>"Starless and Bible Black" >>"Red" > >Three absolutely essential albums.
A fun band to see live during that era...Bill Bruford stalking the stage with about 50 exotic percussion instruments (Bruford was always an amazing drummer - pure math, that guy). I saw them in '73 with - believe it or not - Slade. One of those amazing concert billings which only the 70s could produce. I do recall Yes and Black Sabbath on the same bill, too. old, but not a Bob Seger fan, jeff --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-03-13 04:47dj pieOn Tue, 12 Mar 2002, omz wrote: > >Dudes, if you wanna hear prog whose pretensions are alm
From:
dj pie
To:
omz
Cc:
Date:
Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:47:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
Reply to:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
permalink · <Pine.LNX.4.31L2.0203122045310.22145-100000@zot.electricrain.com>
On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, omz wrote:
quoted 8 lines Dudes, if you wanna hear prog whose pretensions are almost bearable> >Dudes, if you wanna hear prog whose pretensions are almost bearable > >check out mid-70's era King Crimson: > > > >"Larks' Tongues in Aspic" > >"Starless and Bible Black" > >"Red" > > Three absolutely essential albums.
oh yeah, and don't forget discipline! -rachel (aka dj pie) piesarenice.net --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-03-13 09:55Irene McCOn 12 Mar 2002 at 18:53, omz wrote: > >"Larks' Tongues in Aspic" Contains heartbreakingly
From:
Irene McC
To:
Date:
Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:55:42 +0200
Subject:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
Reply to:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
permalink · <3C8F3E3E.8826.474ED@localhost>
On 12 Mar 2002 at 18:53, omz wrote:
quoted 1 line "Larks' Tongues in Aspic"> >"Larks' Tongues in Aspic"
Contains heartbreakingly gorgeous "Book of Saturdays". Oh, and it's got a nice cover! Funny thing is, I LOVED this album in its day, then lost it to the ravages of time, as one does. About a year or two ago I borrowed it from a friend who found it at a used book & record shop... and oh my, was I disappointed! The years didn't treat it well, and sometimes I feel it's best to leave ones memories intact - now that the avaiable palette of sounds has increased so much and our ever-hungry appetites for all things new and better are becoming jaded, these old "greats" just don't live up to scrutiny any more (IMO). But while we're talking prog. I'd strongly recommend Yes' Roundabout off their Fragile album. That being said, I sometimes wonder how I'd react to hearing any of these records now for the first time. Aqualung being another one... Mother Goose *still* gives me goosebumps and I know the words to Thick as a Brick off by heart (well, most of the way through) but in the year 2002 a first listen might be a time-warp that falls on overly privileged and advanced ears, like watching a grainy 8mm home- movie after seeing the Matrix. I * --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-03-14 12:20Colin Buttimer> Contains heartbreakingly gorgeous "Book of Saturdays". Oh, and it's > got a nice cover!
From:
Colin Buttimer
To:
idm list
Date:
Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:20:56 +0000
Subject:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
Reply to:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
permalink · <B8B63384.1CD19%c.buttimer@mdx.ac.uk>
quoted 2 lines Contains heartbreakingly gorgeous "Book of Saturdays". Oh, and it's> Contains heartbreakingly gorgeous "Book of Saturdays". Oh, and it's > got a nice cover!
I agree!
quoted 8 lines Funny thing is, I LOVED this album in its day, then lost it to the> Funny thing is, I LOVED this album in its day, then lost it to the > ravages of time, as one does. About a year or two ago I borrowed it > from a friend who found it at a used book & record shop... and oh my, > was I disappointed! The years didn't treat it well, and sometimes I > feel it's best to leave ones memories intact - now that the avaiable > palette of sounds has increased so much and our ever-hungry appetites > for all things new and better are becoming jaded, these old "greats" > just don't live up to scrutiny any more (IMO).
I don't agree! I still love that album - palette of sounds very large in part due to Jamie Muir ('Percussion and Allsorts') who went on to become a monk. Exiles is wondrous, Talking Drum - all of them! A friend just gave me a KC compilation called 'A Beginners Guide to the ProjeKcts' which is pretty fascinating - I'd stopped following them after Three of a Perfect Pair, but think I'll have to pick up the thread again. All the best, Colin. np Miles Davis - Pangaea (Mastersound edition)
quoted 18 lines From: Irene McC <substar@iafrica.com>> From: Irene McC <substar@iafrica.com> > Organization: Loop Dancer > Reply-To: substar@iafrica.com > Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:55:42 +0200 > To: idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: Re: [idm] [OT] prog > > Contains heartbreakingly gorgeous "Book of Saturdays". Oh, and it's > got a nice cover! > > Funny thing is, I LOVED this album in its day, then lost it to the > ravages of time, as one does. About a year or two ago I borrowed it > from a friend who found it at a used book & record shop... and oh my, > was I disappointed! The years didn't treat it well, and sometimes I > feel it's best to leave ones memories intact - now that the avaiable > palette of sounds has increased so much and our ever-hungry appetites > for all things new and better are becoming jaded, these old "greats" > just don't live up to scrutiny any more (IMO).
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-03-13 01:30Mxyzptlk> >Re: psychedelia... dukes of stratosphere, collected on CD. (Anyone >familiar with those
From:
Mxyzptlk
To:
Aaron Ximm , lysaabi
Cc:
Jan! ,
Date:
Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:30:32 -0600
Subject:
Re: [idm] [OT] Pink Floyd recommendations - Yes!
Reply to:
Re: [idm] [OT] Pink Floyd recommendations - Yes!
permalink · <5.1.0.14.2.20020312192654.02498b40@pop3.norton.antivirus>
quoted 3 lines Re: psychedelia... dukes of stratosphere, collected on CD. (Anyone> >Re: psychedelia... dukes of stratosphere, collected on CD. (Anyone >familiar with those weird solo andy partridge albums?)
Yes indeedy, but the Dukes weren't Andy's per se...it was a full XTC sidebar. Now, if you want to talk 'strange Andy Partridge solo LPs, you're talking "Lure of Salvage" - alternatively titled "Take Away", I believe. jeff --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-03-13 05:48Aaron Ximm> >Re: psychedelia... dukes of stratosphere, collected on CD. (Anyone > >familiar with tho
From:
Aaron Ximm
To:
Mxyzptlk
Cc:
lysaabi , Jan! ,
Date:
Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:48:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject:
Re: [idm] [OT] Pink Floyd recommendations - Yes!
Reply to:
Re: [idm] [OT] Pink Floyd recommendations - Yes!
permalink · <Pine.SOL.4.42.0203122146240.26694-100000@well.com>
quoted 6 lines Re: psychedelia... dukes of stratosphere, collected on CD. (Anyone> >Re: psychedelia... dukes of stratosphere, collected on CD. (Anyone > >familiar with those weird solo andy partridge albums?) > > Yes indeedy, but the Dukes weren't Andy's per se...it was a full XTC > sidebar. Now, if you want to talk 'strange Andy Partridge solo LPs, you're > talking "Lure of Salvage" - alternatively titled "Take Away", I believe.
Certainly, I meant to mean, in addition to the Dukes... I have the album you mention but remember rumors that there were more... got it on vinyl, shrinkwrapped, in the early 90's in Chicago at the old waxtrax... wonder if it's still around... high time to re-listen with better educated ears I suspect! best aaron ghede@well.com http://www.quietamerican.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-03-13 14:44Mxyzptlk> > > Yes indeedy, but the Dukes weren't Andy's per se...it was a full XTC > > sidebar. No
From:
Mxyzptlk
To:
Aaron Ximm
Cc:
lysaabi , Jan! ,
Date:
Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:44:48 -0600
Subject:
Re: [idm] [OT] Pink Floyd recommendations - Yes!
Reply to:
Re: [idm] [OT] Pink Floyd recommendations - Yes!
permalink · <5.1.0.14.2.20020313084356.01d6de60@pop3.norton.antivirus>
quoted 9 lines Yes indeedy, but the Dukes weren't Andy's per se...it was a full XTC> > > Yes indeedy, but the Dukes weren't Andy's per se...it was a full XTC > > sidebar. Now, if you want to talk 'strange Andy Partridge solo LPs, you're > > talking "Lure of Salvage" - alternatively titled "Take Away", I believe. > >Certainly, I meant to mean, in addition to the Dukes... I have the album >you mention but remember rumors that there were more... got it on vinyl, >shrinkwrapped, in the early 90's in Chicago at the old waxtrax... wonder >if it's still around...
It was remastered with bonus tracks and pressed to CD at least twice under different names. jeff --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-03-13 03:14donna summer>>>>King Crimson, Yes and Black Sabbath on the same bill, too. Fucking hell man! Did your
From:
donna summer
To:
, ,
Date:
Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:14:42 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
permalink · <F296pAJwB9Vj91nYBih0000af52@hotmail.com>
quoted 1 line King Crimson, Yes and Black Sabbath on the same bill, too.>>>>King Crimson, Yes and Black Sabbath on the same bill, too.
Fucking hell man! Did your head explode? Because mine sure whould have... -donna _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-03-13 04:35MxyzptlkAt 09:14 PM 3/12/2002, donna summer wrote: >>>>>King Crimson, Yes and Black Sabbath on the
From:
Mxyzptlk
To:
donna summer , ,
Date:
Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:35:14 -0600
Subject:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
Reply to:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
permalink · <5.1.0.14.2.20020312222750.02483bb0@pop3.norton.antivirus>
At 09:14 PM 3/12/2002, donna summer wrote:
quoted 5 lines King Crimson, Yes and Black Sabbath on the same bill, too.>>>>>King Crimson, Yes and Black Sabbath on the same bill, too. > >Fucking hell man! >Did your head explode? Because mine sure whould have... >-donna
It was actually pretty funny. Black Sabbath were probably as stoned as the crowd; they started more than one song and finished it one bar in, realizing (it seemed) that they'd played it a few songs previously. I chalk most of the period up to drugs. I don't think the latter bill phased the audience much. Concerning the former show (King Crimson/Slade) it was a different story and the crowd wasn't very receptive or polite to Slade. Even the PCP addled audience members seemed annoyed with them - earsplitting and dumb.To impress someone as "dumb" while they are on PCP is no easy task. jeff --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-03-13 14:40tweibrecht@juno.comProg Top 10 Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon Genesis - Lamb Lies Down on Broaday Yes - T
From:
To:
Cc:
Date:
Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:40:10 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
permalink · <20020313.104243.-467069.0.tweibrecht@juno.com>
Prog Top 10 Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon Genesis - Lamb Lies Down on Broaday Yes - Tales from Topographic Oceans Emerson Lake & Palmer - Tarkus Jethro Tull - Passion Play Supertramp - Breakfast in America King Crimson - Islands Focus - Focus Can - Soon over Babaluma Starcastle - Starcastle imo, of course... tom w np: la!NEU? - live in dusseldorf ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-03-13 22:36donna summerSupertramp - Breakfast in America What??? Don't get me wrong, very good album, but Prog? -
From:
donna summer
To:
,
Cc:
Date:
Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:36:25 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
permalink · <F189D5CL7DAobYphVtH00009048@hotmail.com>
Supertramp - Breakfast in America What??? Don't get me wrong, very good album, but Prog? -Donna
quoted 31 lines Prog Top 10> > >Prog Top 10 > >Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon >Genesis - Lamb Lies Down on Broaday >Yes - Tales from Topographic Oceans >Emerson Lake & Palmer - Tarkus >Jethro Tull - Passion Play >Supertramp - Breakfast in America >King Crimson - Islands >Focus - Focus >Can - Soon over Babaluma >Starcastle - Starcastle > >imo, of course... > >tom w > >np: la!NEU? - live in dusseldorf > >________________________________________________________________ >GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! >Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! >Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >
_________________________________________________________________ Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-03-13 21:43omzSupertramp=Pop and extremely BAD pop IMHO To each his own... >Supertramp - Breakfast in Am
From:
omz
To:
Date:
Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:43:40 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
Reply to:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
permalink · <p05100307b8b577ea8ef8@[4.22.158.4]>
Supertramp=Pop and extremely BAD pop IMHO To each his own...
quoted 21 lines Supertramp - Breakfast in America>Supertramp - Breakfast in America >What??? Don't get me wrong, very good album, but Prog? >-Donna >> >> >>Prog Top 10 >> >>Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon >>Genesis - Lamb Lies Down on Broaday >>Yes - Tales from Topographic Oceans >>Emerson Lake & Palmer - Tarkus >>Jethro Tull - Passion Play >>Supertramp - Breakfast in America >>King Crimson - Islands >>Focus - Focus >>Can - Soon over Babaluma >>Starcastle - Starcastle >> >>imo, of course... >> >>tom w
-- ________________________ omz beautamous loaf recordings http://www.hotweird.com/loaf --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-03-14 00:02AndreiOn Wed, 13 Mar 2002, donna summer wrote: > Supertramp - Breakfast in America > What??? Don
From:
Andrei
To:
Date:
Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:02:14 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
Reply to:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
permalink · <Pine.SGI.4.40.0203131842480.1452188-100000@shell01.TheWorld.com>
On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, donna summer wrote:
quoted 3 lines Supertramp - Breakfast in America> Supertramp - Breakfast in America > What??? Don't get me wrong, very good album, but Prog? > -Donna
Personally, I don't think Pink Floyd or Can are prog either and I think they generally made "tasteful" music. Neither had any sort of classical pretensions and all that kind of nonsense. I have to admit that in highschool there was a period when I enjoyed ELP's "Trilogy". Dude, they do a version of Aaron Copland's "Hoedown" ! You know, the tune from all those "beef is what's for dinner" commercials in the US ? Another group besides King Crimson who were undeniably prog and also made very twisted and pretty bearable music were Henry Cow (Fred Frith's old group). I'd say the same about some of Zappa's stuff. And actually, I think John Zorn's Naked City were the ultimate, listenable and unpretentious (imo) prog band. // Andrei
quoted 18 lines Prog Top 10> >Prog Top 10 > > > >Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon > >Genesis - Lamb Lies Down on Broaday > >Yes - Tales from Topographic Oceans > >Emerson Lake & Palmer - Tarkus > >Jethro Tull - Passion Play > >Supertramp - Breakfast in America > >King Crimson - Islands > >Focus - Focus > >Can - Soon over Babaluma > >Starcastle - Starcastle > > > >imo, of course... > > > >tom w > > > >np: la!NEU? - live in dusseldorf
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-03-14 00:25omz>On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, donna summer wrote: > >> Supertramp - Breakfast in America >> What??
From:
omz
To:
Date:
Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:25:12 -0600
Subject:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
Reply to:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
permalink · <p05010401b8b59dd6a1db@[64.81.118.51]>
quoted 9 lines On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, donna summer wrote:>On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, donna summer wrote: > >> Supertramp - Breakfast in America >> What??? Don't get me wrong, very good album, but Prog? >> -Donna > >Personally, I don't think Pink Floyd or Can are prog either and I think >they generally made "tasteful" music. Neither had any sort of classical >pretensions and all that kind of nonsense.
I know a lot of prog-heads who would disagree about Can. Many view them as the ultimate prog band (well Krautrock really, but we are splitting hairs..)
quoted 2 lines And actually, I think John Zorn's Naked City were the ultimate, listenable>And actually, I think John Zorn's Naked City were the ultimate, listenable >and unpretentious (imo) prog band.
Naked City rule. -- ^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^- omz beautamous loaf recordings http://www.hotweird.com/loaf/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-03-14 00:45AndreiOn Wed, 13 Mar 2002, omz wrote: > >On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, donna summer wrote: > > > >> Super
From:
Andrei
To:
Date:
Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:45:49 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
Reply to:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
permalink · <Pine.SGI.4.40.0203131934310.1461446-100000@shell01.TheWorld.com>
On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, omz wrote:
quoted 13 lines On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, donna summer wrote:> >On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, donna summer wrote: > > > >> Supertramp - Breakfast in America > >> What??? Don't get me wrong, very good album, but Prog? > >> -Donna > > > >Personally, I don't think Pink Floyd or Can are prog either and I think > >they generally made "tasteful" music. Neither had any sort of classical > >pretensions and all that kind of nonsense. > > I know a lot of prog-heads who would disagree about Can. Many view > them as the ultimate prog band (well Krautrock really, but we are > splitting hairs..)
The way I tend to look at it is that there is "prog" rock and then there's "art" or "experimental" rock. And there are quite a few bands who were both imo. I see Can as an art rock band. What I associate with prog is excess, technical pyrotechnics and "classical" pretensions. Art rock had much less to do with technical prowess and more to do with all sorts of crazy experimentation. For example I think Wire and This Heat were great art rock bands. I think art rock people tended to forget a lot less than the prog people that "complexity" isn't what makes rock music interesting. Andrei --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-03-14 00:54omz>On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, andrei wrote: > >The way I tend to look at it is that there is "prog
From:
omz
To:
Date:
Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:54:27 -0600
Subject:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
Reply to:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
permalink · <p05010400b8b5a4a83c82@[64.81.118.51]>
quoted 5 lines On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, andrei wrote:>On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, andrei wrote: > >The way I tend to look at it is that there is "prog" rock and then there's >"art" or "experimental" rock. And there are quite a few bands who were >both imo. I see Can as an art rock band.
Well 'art rock,' whatever you may define that to be, would definitely fall under the umbrella of 'progressive.'
quoted 2 lines What I associate with prog is excess, technical pyrotechnics and>What I associate with prog is excess, technical pyrotechnics and >"classical" pretensions.
Well you have listened to one to many Emerson, Lake and Palmer records :) (who suck IMO) -- ^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^- omz beautamous loaf recordings http://www.hotweird.com/loaf/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-03-14 02:42AndreiOn Wed, 13 Mar 2002, omz wrote: > >On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, andrei wrote: > > > >The way I ten
From:
Andrei
To:
Date:
Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:42:17 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
Reply to:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
permalink · <Pine.SGI.4.40.0203132117010.1449011-100000@shell01.TheWorld.com>
On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, omz wrote:
quoted 8 lines On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, andrei wrote:> >On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, andrei wrote: > > > >The way I tend to look at it is that there is "prog" rock and then there's > >"art" or "experimental" rock. And there are quite a few bands who were > >both imo. I see Can as an art rock band. > > Well 'art rock,' whatever you may define that to be, would > definitely fall under the umbrella of 'progressive.'
Well, I find the whole notion of "progressive" rock, or any kind of "progressive" music, a laughable one. Yes and all the bands of their ilk didn't do anything to help the "progression" of rock music. It was a step in the wrong direction, imo. They mostly missed the point about what rock music's functions are. I think the bands that usually have something vital to say tend to be musically pretty "dumb", by prog standards. I'm not saying Hendrix's music was dumb, but I think he did more to advance rock music than any pseudo-aristocratic band of Englishmen. There's nothing I find more barf inducing than admiration for rock musicians' technical skills. My opinion is that if you really are interested in "advanced" music and want to be a musician, and not an entertainer, who people admire for his skills as a musician you shouldn't get involved in any sort of pop music. Unless you think Steve Vai is a genius. Pop music is not about advancing the state of music.
quoted 4 lines What I associate with prog is excess, technical pyrotechnics and> >What I associate with prog is excess, technical pyrotechnics and > >"classical" pretensions. > > Well you have listened to one to many Emerson, Lake and Palmer records :)
I guess one is one too many. // Andrei --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-03-14 06:34Greg Smithon 3/13/02 6:42 PM, Andrei at andrei@world.std.com scrawled: > Pop music is not about adva
From:
Greg Smith
To:
Date:
Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:34:13 -0800
Subject:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
Reply to:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
permalink · <B8B58465.4465%purgasmith@earthlink.net>
on 3/13/02 6:42 PM, Andrei at andrei@world.std.com scrawled:
quoted 1 line Pop music is not about advancing the state of music.> Pop music is not about advancing the state of music.
Marrs' Pump up the Volume The Beattles Seargent Pepper's Lonely Heart's Club Band Run DMC's self titled debut album were these not pop music? ~g --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-03-14 07:39AndreiOn Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Greg Smith wrote: > on 3/13/02 6:42 PM, Andrei at andrei@world.std.co
From:
Andrei
To:
Date:
Thu, 14 Mar 2002 02:39:23 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
Reply to:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
permalink · <Pine.SGI.4.40.0203140152270.1499675-100000@shell01.TheWorld.com>
On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Greg Smith wrote:
quoted 9 lines on 3/13/02 6:42 PM, Andrei at andrei@world.std.com scrawled:> on 3/13/02 6:42 PM, Andrei at andrei@world.std.com scrawled: > > > Pop music is not about advancing the state of music. > > Marrs' Pump up the Volume > The Beattles Seargent Pepper's Lonely Heart's Club Band > Run DMC's self titled debut album > > were these not pop music?
Yes within the context of pop music, but within the context of all music you could probably make some convincing arguments against them. When I made that comment I was speaking in a sort of absolute sense. Don't get me wrong I think The Beatles and Run DMC are great, but simply musically speaking what advances did they make ? The Beatles were geniuses, but they didn't revolutionize the concepts of harmony or melody. And spoken word, sampling and the use of drum machines were around a long time before Run DMC. I think these people made more of a social impact which is what pop music is good at, imo. I think Hendrix is one of the only pop musicians I can think of who clearly brought something new to the table in a general sense (an approach to playing the guitar which changed things henceforth). I think the most important thing progers failed to understand is that what pop music is great at is dealing with social mores, not musical issues. If you look at all the seminal figures in pop music history (Elvis, Bob Dylan, The Beatles, Sex Pistols, etc.) you'll see that their impact has more to do with socio-political issues than with some sort of revolutionary musical statement. Andrei --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-03-14 07:54Ed HallAndrei <andrei@world.std.com> wrote (in part): : If you look at all the seminal figures in
From:
Ed Hall
To:
I Do Mean...
Date:
Wed, 13 Mar 2002 23:54:38 -0800
Subject:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
Reply to:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
permalink · <200203140754.g2E7scv23032@screech.weirdnoise.com>
Andrei <andrei@world.std.com> wrote (in part): : If you look at all the seminal figures in pop music history (Elvis, Bob : Dylan, The Beatles, Sex Pistols, etc.) you'll see that their impact has : more to do with socio-political issues than with some sort of : revolutionary musical statement. It helped that they used musical forms that, although not originating with them, weren't overused or even that widely known at the time. Both medium AND message. -Ed --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-03-14 08:06Greg Smithon 3/13/02 11:39 PM, Andrei at andrei@world.std.com scrawled: > Don't get me wrong I think
From:
Greg Smith
To:
Date:
Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:06:39 -0800
Subject:
Re: [idm] [OT] progprog
Reply to:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
permalink · <B8B59A0F.4471%purgasmith@earthlink.net>
on 3/13/02 11:39 PM, Andrei at andrei@world.std.com scrawled:
quoted 10 lines Don't get me wrong I think The Beatles and Run DMC are great, but simply> Don't get me wrong I think The Beatles and Run DMC are great, but simply > musically speaking what advances did they make ? > The Beatles were geniuses, but they didn't revolutionize the concepts of > harmony or melody. And spoken word, sampling and the use of drum machines > were around a long time before Run DMC. I think these people made more of > a social impact which is what pop music is good at, imo. > I think Hendrix is one of the only pop musicians I can think of who > clearly brought something new to the table in a general sense (an approach > to playing the guitar which changed things henceforth). >
You are on point. I was just trying to poke holes in your hardline statement. I notice you didn't say anything about the marss record though, which of course was a seminal 80's track and for all intensive purposes introduced a *lot* of people to sampling. Granted pop music that signals the beginning of a new era may be more about time and place, or the artists charisma then musical talent but breakthrough artists do deserve some credit.
quoted 7 lines I think the most important thing progers failed to understand is that what> I think the most important thing progers failed to understand is that what > pop music is great at is dealing with social mores, not musical issues. If > you look at all the seminal figures in pop music history (Elvis, Bob > Dylan, The Beatles, Sex Pistols, etc.) you'll see that their impact has > more to do with socio-political issues than with some sort of > revolutionary musical statement. >
Correct, what else would you expect from a society that likes easy to digest narrative so much? Still though, think about the discussion on this list.. lots of artists get hyped because of the software they are using isn't that social? DItto for (non John Oswald) illicit remixes. Who gives a fuck what you can do to <insert hated pop artist here>'s radio hits? That is about as old as taking a coporate logo/slogan and being all clever like and subverting it into something oh so opposite of what it originally was. ~g (fishing not trolling) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-03-14 13:14omz> > >On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, andrei wrote: > > > >Well, I find the whole notion of "progressi
From:
omz
To:
Date:
Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:14:28 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
Reply to:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
permalink · <p05100301b8b650d19a67@[4.22.158.4]>
quoted 7 lines On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, andrei wrote:> > >On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, andrei wrote: > > > >Well, I find the whole notion of "progressive" rock, or any kind of >"progressive" music, a laughable one. Yes and all the bands of their ilk >didn't do anything to help the "progression" of rock music. It was a step >in the wrong direction, imo. They mostly missed the point about what rock >music's functions are.
I'm not really talking about 'Yes and all the bands of their ilk'...When I think of progressive rock I think of Amon Duul II, Heldon, Pulsar, Lard Free, Kraftwerk, Agitation Free, Ash Ra Tempel, and so on and so on. And if you want to hear where this 'IDM' music we all know and love originated, give Cluster 'Zuckerzeit' a listen ...now that is some progressive shit! Circa 1975/6...and actually Can's 'Tago Mago' was one of the first records I can think of to use a drum machine, that was around 1970.
quoted 2 lines I'm not saying Hendrix's music was dumb, but I think he did more to>I'm not saying Hendrix's music was dumb, but I think he did more to >advance rock music than any pseudo-aristocratic band of Englishmen.
It's all about the Germans, the French, the Italians...they did way more to advance music than most 'Englishmen'... -- ________________________ omz beautamous loaf recordings http://www.hotweird.com/loaf --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-03-14 18:45AndreiOn Thu, 14 Mar 2002, omz wrote: > I'm not really talking about 'Yes and all the bands of t
From:
Andrei
To:
Date:
Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:45:29 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
Reply to:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
permalink · <Pine.SGI.4.40.0203141338210.1502313-100000@shell01.TheWorld.com>
On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, omz wrote:
quoted 4 lines I'm not really talking about 'Yes and all the bands of their> I'm not really talking about 'Yes and all the bands of their > ilk'...When I think of progressive rock I think of Amon Duul II, > Heldon, Pulsar, Lard Free, Kraftwerk, Agitation Free, Ash Ra Tempel, > and so on and so on.
I think where you and I disagree is in our uses of the term "progressive". I think you use "progressive" as an adjective, while I mean "Progressive" (with a capital P) as a strain of rock music with particular traits.
quoted 5 lines And if you want to hear where this 'IDM' music we all know and love> And if you want to hear where this 'IDM' music we all know and love > originated, give Cluster 'Zuckerzeit' a listen ...now that is some > progressive shit! Circa 1975/6...and actually Can's 'Tago Mago' was > one of the first records I can think of to use a drum machine, that > was around 1970.
Yes, I'm very familiar with those records and think they're great. For proto IDM I'd also suggest the first Harmonia album. Andrei --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-03-13 23:52wogmanGentle Giant is in need of being metioned here, IMHO. ------------------------------------
From:
wogman
To:
Date:
Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:52:13 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
permalink · <53670403399.20020313185213@diaryland.com>
Gentle Giant is in need of being metioned here, IMHO. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-03-14 01:19newpower@interlog.comTheir fans were into art rock but Can was a funk band. They wanted to sound like James Bro
From:
To:
Date:
Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:19:21 -0500
Subject:
[idm] [OT] prog
permalink · <3C8FFA99.3079AE08@interlog.com>
Their fans were into art rock but Can was a funk band. They wanted to sound like James Brown but sometimes ended up like Stockhausen. for the bonus points: does anyone know the connection between King Crimson and Supertramp? or King Crimson and Celine Dion? Andrei wrote:
quoted 12 lines What I associate with prog is excess, technical pyrotechnics and> What I associate with prog is excess, technical pyrotechnics and > "classical" pretensions. Art rock had much less to do with technical > prowess and more to do with all sorts of crazy experimentation. For > example I think Wire and This Heat were great art rock bands. I think > art rock people tended to forget a lot less than the prog people that > "complexity" isn't what makes rock music interesting. > > Andrei > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-03-14 02:59AndreiOn Wed, 13 Mar 2002 newpower@interlog.com wrote: > Their fans were into art rock but Can w
From:
Andrei
To:
Date:
Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:59:15 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
Reply to:
[idm] [OT] prog
permalink · <Pine.SGI.4.40.0203132144480.1449011-100000@shell01.TheWorld.com>
On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 newpower@interlog.com wrote:
quoted 2 lines Their fans were into art rock but Can was a funk band. They wanted to> Their fans were into art rock but Can was a funk band. They wanted to > sound like James Brown but sometimes ended up like Stockhausen.
Jaki is definitely one of the funkiest drummers in rock.
quoted 2 lines for the bonus points: does anyone know the connection between King> for the bonus points: does anyone know the connection between King > Crimson and Supertramp?
Did Kevin Bacon trip out to their records ? Answer is: Richard Palmer (that's what Google's for :-)) What about the connection between KC and Bad Company ? That's an easier one.
quoted 1 line or King Crimson and Celine Dion?> or King Crimson and Celine Dion?
I'd rather not know. :-> // Andrei --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-03-14 06:23Howard ShihOn Wed, 13 Mar 2002 newpower@interlog.com wrote: > or King Crimson and Celine Dion? Pete S
From:
Howard Shih
To:
Cc:
Date:
Thu, 14 Mar 2002 01:23:12 -0500 (EST)
Subject:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
Reply to:
[idm] [OT] prog
permalink · <Pine.BSI.4.05L.10203140121360.29060-100000@mail.eclipse.net>
On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 newpower@interlog.com wrote:
quoted 1 line or King Crimson and Celine Dion?> or King Crimson and Celine Dion?
Pete Sinfield --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-03-14 04:30Michael UptonAndrei writes: > Well, I find the whole notion of "progressive" rock, > or any kind of "pr
From:
Michael Upton
To:
Cc:
Date:
Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:30:12 +1100
Subject:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
permalink · <1016080212.4b9e0ff8m_upton@myrealbox.com>
Andrei writes:
quoted 7 lines Well, I find the whole notion of "progressive" rock,> Well, I find the whole notion of "progressive" rock, > or any kind of "progressive" music, a laughable one. > Yes and all the bands of their ilk didn't do > anything to help the "progression" of rock music. It > was a step in the wrong direction, imo. They mostly > missed the point about what rock music's functions > are.
The concept of something being "progressive" carries this implication that musicians are all heading towards something better or some kind of perfection, which just seems really silly to me. There is no agreed standard for defining what bad music is, and I'd argue there can't be, so claims to making progress towards something better seem ridiculously pretensious to me. There are quite a few useful ways to approach evaluating music, but you have to have some kind of tacit agreement on what those are before you can have any kind of meaningful nattering about music. Feel free to skip any "yes, there is a definition of bad music, it's Britney Spears" or other such facetious responses, people. ;) Sometimes I think this is entirely self-evident and I'm just preaching to the converted, but then I meet people who are like "Steve Vai really _is_ pretty good" or "Richard Devine is the next step in IDM because his music is so complicated" or whatever. Michael - http://www.ampcast.com/jetjaguar --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-03-14 07:23newpower@interlog.comsorry to get all historical on you, but the term progressive was first coined for Pink Flo
From:
To:
Date:
Thu, 14 Mar 2002 02:23:25 -0500
Subject:
[idm] [OT] prog
permalink · <3C904FED.1FAE0308@interlog.com>
sorry to get all historical on you, but the term progressive was first coined for Pink Floyd's early pop songs which wanted to extend beyond the two minute restrictions of early 60's radio hits/early Beatles etc (at least until Morrissey started writing short tunes in the 80's). Then Brian Wilson and the Beatles helped promote the idea of creating full length creations rather than just singles, and that and psychedelia inspired longer song forms which got clogged up with symphonic influences which made the music no longer just about rockin' (ie sex). Punk loosened things up again (even though a bunch of them were closet Genesis fans). What is interesting is that the techno/house DJ has returned us to a long form experience, but one based on rhythm rather than melody/chord changes. The irony is that several from the Detroit techno scene were progressive rock/jazz fusion musicians before getting into electronic music. Model 500 was originally a jazz-fusion group featuring the guitarist who turned them onto the Alvin Toffler/Future Shock. I'm afraid the interesting music is where the "progressions" are. Andrei wrote:
quoted 12 lines Well, I find the whole notion of "progressive" rock, or any kind of> > Well, I find the whole notion of "progressive" rock, or any kind of > "progressive" music, a laughable one. Yes and all the bands of their ilk > didn't do anything to help the "progression" of rock music. It was a step > in the wrong direction, imo. They mostly missed the point about what rock > music's functions are. I think the bands that usually have something vital > to say tend to be musically pretty "dumb", by prog standards. > I'm not saying Hendrix's music was dumb, but I think he did more to > advance rock music than any pseudo-aristocratic band of Englishmen. > There's nothing I find more barf inducing than admiration for rock > musicians' technical skills. >
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-03-14 12:56donna summerYes and all the bands of their ilk >didn't do anything to help the "progression" of rock m
From:
donna summer
To:
,
Date:
Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:56:29 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
permalink · <F617wo95EFk2H3b98Kt0000133e@hotmail.com>
Yes and all the bands of their ilk
quoted 2 lines didn't do anything to help the "progression" of rock music. It was a step>didn't do anything to help the "progression" of rock music. It was a step >in the wrong direction, imo.
ALL RIGHT! I CAN'T STAND IT ANYMORE! Yes is one of my FAVORITE bands, and I won't standby idly by and hear this foul talk! 1. Yes made groundbreaking songs which pushed the limits of song structure. 2. Yes are great musicians. 3. Yes had a very long string of great records, far more than certain bands also lumped into the "prog" genre. 4. Yes tried very hard incorporate things foreign to rock music (other musical approaches, weird time sigs., instrumentation, etc) a feat not unique, but pushed farther than 99% of their peers. 5. Yes rocked hard! Who know's what's the "right" direction for music? Who cares? Ok, so go home and listen to these albums, they are fucking great!!! Listen to relayer! Listen to Close to the Edge! Listen to the Yes album! And where do people on the IDM list get off deciding what's pretentious and what's not? I gave up being wary of pretentiousness long ago-because that leads to being close minded! By these standards wasn't Pink Floyd more pretentious? But they were more popular, so I guess that doesn't work... -Donna (Andrei-not trying to harp personally -you know I think you rock- but defending great music!!) _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-03-14 15:37JoyrexDon't forget Boards Of Canada was a progressive rock band at one point - their really earl
From:
Joyrex
To:
, omz
Date:
Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:37:26 -0600
Subject:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
permalink · <009d01c1cb6e$266949c0$7104140a@jethomasxp>
Don't forget Boards Of Canada was a progressive rock band at one point - their really early stuff has a very distinct prog rock sound. ----- Original Message ----- From: "omz" <omz23@speakeasy.net> To: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 7:14 AM Subject: Re: [idm] [OT] prog
quoted 42 lines On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, andrei wrote:> > > >On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, andrei wrote: > > > > > >Well, I find the whole notion of "progressive" rock, or any kind of > >"progressive" music, a laughable one. Yes and all the bands of their ilk > >didn't do anything to help the "progression" of rock music. It was a step > >in the wrong direction, imo. They mostly missed the point about what rock > >music's functions are. > > I'm not really talking about 'Yes and all the bands of their > ilk'...When I think of progressive rock I think of Amon Duul II, > Heldon, Pulsar, Lard Free, Kraftwerk, Agitation Free, Ash Ra Tempel, > and so on and so on. > > And if you want to hear where this 'IDM' music we all know and love > originated, give Cluster 'Zuckerzeit' a listen ...now that is some > progressive shit! Circa 1975/6...and actually Can's 'Tago Mago' was > one of the first records I can think of to use a drum machine, that > was around 1970. > > >I'm not saying Hendrix's music was dumb, but I think he did more to > >advance rock music than any pseudo-aristocratic band of Englishmen. > > It's all about the Germans, the French, the Italians...they did way > more to advance music than most 'Englishmen'... > > -- > ________________________ > omz > > beautamous loaf recordings > http://www.hotweird.com/loaf > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-03-14 18:49Gaiatekztur214@aol.comsonic youth (why no mention???) dim sum clip job (cuz they attach a light bulb to the bass
From:
To:
Date:
Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:49:40 EST
Subject:
Re: [idm] [OT] prog
permalink · <b9.1d2fc28f.29c24ac4@aol.com>
sonic youth (why no mention???) dim sum clip job (cuz they attach a light bulb to the bassists axe, and turn down all the lights, progressing....well nothing but innovative nonetheless) the pooool (audio/visual instruments) centuries (whoa they freak me out) and theres that guy, who's name i can't think of, he built dozens of one of a kind instruments, i think he was a boxcar rider...anyway...he's done some wild shit with organic/natural instruments...i believe there was an article written about him a ways back in Gadfly... tidewatergemfish