the argument that people buy releases after listening to the mp3's doesn't
mean that it's ok.
it's good that they do, and i know many people do (myself included), but
there is no guarantee at all that this is going to happen with everyone,
especially people less dedicated to the music than we are.
if the label wants you to preview the album they'll post some mp3's on their
site. you can't steal something from someone then decide when you have the
money to get your own that you were just borrowing it ;p
i often download mp3s then buy the album, but i don't think we can use that
fact to say labels are being ridiculous. they need a way to guarantee we
either buy the album after a certain time or remove the mp3s so it's not
'infinite borrowing for the masses'.
-sean
----- Original Message -----
From: "atomly" <atomly@atomly.com>
To: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2000 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: [idm] Napster News
quoted 2 lines On Thu, May 18, 2000 at 02:04:44PM -0400, alan r lucas wrote:
> On Thu, May 18, 2000 at 02:04:44PM -0400, alan r lucas wrote:
> > i can almost see what you're saying, but honestly, most of the people
that
quoted 6 lines are worried about mp3 distribution (like ninja tune and smaller labels
> > are worried about mp3 distribution (like ninja tune and smaller labels
> > like that) really do rely on record sales for income. and i don't think
> > there's anything wrong with that, nor do i think it compromises the
> > musical integrity of the releases.
>
> I kind of have to disagree here. Lately I've been watching the IDM scene
go slowly down the tubes as more and more money is finding its way into it.
People are falling into popular formulas in order to turn a profit. I mean
look at Rephlex or any of the Autechre clones. Nothing shocking coming out
of either- nothing groundbreaking at all.
quoted 2 lines I got into IDM because it was all about new territory- I never knew what
>
> I got into IDM because it was all about new territory- I never knew what
to expect out of a new release but I was almost always pleasantly surprised.
quoted 2 lines Now it seems that before I even pick anything up I can guess that it's
>
> Now it seems that before I even pick anything up I can guess that it's
going to be clicky breakbeats with a happy melody or disjointed beats and
very synthetic synths (i.e. Aphex Twin or Autechre clones respectively).
quoted 2 lines i'm guessing that you have other sources of income so you're obviously
>
> > i'm guessing that you have other sources of income so you're obviously
not
quoted 3 lines worried about people getting your mp3s. in fact, you make them readily
> > worried about people getting your mp3s. in fact, you make them readily
> > available. but do you think it's right for someone to download amon
> > tobin's new album when amon really wasn't approving/intending for that
to
quoted 3 lines happen?
> > happen?
>
> I certainly don't think it's wrong. As the saying goes- there's no such
thing as bad publicity. I only bought the new Speedy J album because I
listened to the MP3s on my friend's FTP site. I would've passed it over
otherwise.
quoted 2 lines For me, and a lot of people I think, MP3s are about equivalent to
>
> For me, and a lot of people I think, MP3s are about equivalent to
realaudio on forced exposure's site or the listening stations at record
shops. Nobody ever gets mad at record stores that let you listen to the
vinyl before you buy it and accordingly they shouldn't get so pissed about
people previewing with MP3s.
quoted 2 lines Or take a look at bootlegging. You can't tell me that a band like Phish
>
> Or take a look at bootlegging. You can't tell me that a band like Phish
would have nearly the popularity they do if I had anything to say about it.
Err, I mean, if they didn't let people tape and trade their live shows. :P
quoted 2 lines By the same token I can understand why people are offended when somebody
>
> By the same token I can understand why people are offended when somebody
who likes their album doesn't buy it, providing it's reasonably priced.
quoted 3 lines with metallica, things are a little bit different. they've basically
>
> > with metallica, things are a little bit different. they've basically
> > turned their backs on how they started out, etc... plus a gazillion
people
quoted 4 lines buy their shit anyway. am i saying it's cool to rip off metallica just
> > buy their shit anyway. am i saying it's cool to rip off metallica just
> > because they're bigger? sort of. and obviouly that makes me look like a
> > hypocrite. but then, i don't like metallica's music anymore, and
> > regardless of what they might try to make people think, they aren't
going
quoted 4 lines to lose any money over a few hundred thousand mp3s. most of those people
> > to lose any money over a few hundred thousand mp3s. most of those people
> > probably own the albums anyway.
>
> Kind of like the recent Onion article about Kid Rock dying penniless
because of Napster. :)
quoted 3 lines look at it this way - would you steal from someone you love? when you
>
> > look at it this way - would you steal from someone you love? when you
> > steal (or download or whatever you want to call it) your favorite
artists'
quoted 4 lines tracks on mp3 with no intent of ever buying the actual product, that's
> > tracks on mp3 with no intent of ever buying the actual product, that's
> > what you're doing.
>
> I don't, and probably never will, do this. If I like a release I buy it-
plain and simple. Most of the MP3s in my rather meager collection are
either MP3s of music I already have on CD or vinyl or else songs that just
aren't worth buying. By this I mean songs like major label singles where
the rest of the album is just filler or tracks from a 3x12" that costs $27
or something.
quoted 2 lines I really think that if people release good music and a reasonable price
>
> I really think that if people release good music and a reasonable price
they're not going to have any trouble selling it. The majority of MP3s are
schlock like Kid Rock, Britney Spears and Atari Teenage Riot- which is about
as worth paying for as TV commercials are.
quoted 2 lines I swear- most music is only made to fill the space between commercials on
>
> I swear- most music is only made to fill the space between commercials on
the radio or episodes of the Real World or Wet T-Shirt Contests live and
direct from Spring Break in Cancun on MTV.
quoted 2 lines oh, and miles davis was very much concerned with his music being
>
> > oh, and miles davis was very much concerned with his music being
popular.
quoted 3 lines and it sure as hell didn't take away from anything...
> > and it sure as hell didn't take away from anything...
>
> There are, of course, exceptions to every rule... Aphex Twins, Led
Zeppelins and John Coltranes aside I'd say it still probably works in most
cases. And there is of course a difference between being concerned with
people liking your music (which I still consider a bad thing- "chase after
money and security, and your heart will never unclench, care about people's
approval and you will be their prisoner" or "if you look to others for
fulfillment, you will never be fulfilled. if your happiness depends on
money, you will never be happy with yourself" --
http://www.atomly.com/tao.txt) and writing music for the point of it being
popular. There is a difference between wanting peer validation and selling
out- though the line between them does get blurry at times.
quoted 12 lines --
>
> --
> :: atomly ::
>
> atomly@atomly.com | atomly@atdot.org | atomly@cyrus.net
> http://www.atomly.com | http://www.mp3.com/atomly
> [CELL|(888)522.3830] | [CELL|(701)729.1631] | [HOME|(612)676.1817]
>
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