All...
The Ninjas have weighed in on this discussion (if I remember correctly), but
beyond Metallica, who else has weighed in from the artists' perspective? Have I
just missed the arguments from other artists & groups or are there really so few
people screaming about mp3s and napster?
---brian
sean whalen wrote:
quoted 136 lines the argument that people buy releases after listening to the mp3's doesn't
> the argument that people buy releases after listening to the mp3's doesn't
> mean that it's ok.
> it's good that they do, and i know many people do (myself included), but
> there is no guarantee at all that this is going to happen with everyone,
> especially people less dedicated to the music than we are.
>
> if the label wants you to preview the album they'll post some mp3's on their
> site. you can't steal something from someone then decide when you have the
> money to get your own that you were just borrowing it ;p
>
> i often download mp3s then buy the album, but i don't think we can use that
> fact to say labels are being ridiculous. they need a way to guarantee we
> either buy the album after a certain time or remove the mp3s so it's not
> 'infinite borrowing for the masses'.
> -sean
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "atomly" <atomly@atomly.com>
> To: <idm@hyperreal.org>
> Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2000 1:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [idm] Napster News
>
> > On Thu, May 18, 2000 at 02:04:44PM -0400, alan r lucas wrote:
> > > i can almost see what you're saying, but honestly, most of the people
> that
> > > are worried about mp3 distribution (like ninja tune and smaller labels
> > > like that) really do rely on record sales for income. and i don't think
> > > there's anything wrong with that, nor do i think it compromises the
> > > musical integrity of the releases.
> >
> > I kind of have to disagree here. Lately I've been watching the IDM scene
> go slowly down the tubes as more and more money is finding its way into it.
> People are falling into popular formulas in order to turn a profit. I mean
> look at Rephlex or any of the Autechre clones. Nothing shocking coming out
> of either- nothing groundbreaking at all.
> >
> > I got into IDM because it was all about new territory- I never knew what
> to expect out of a new release but I was almost always pleasantly surprised.
> >
> > Now it seems that before I even pick anything up I can guess that it's
> going to be clicky breakbeats with a happy melody or disjointed beats and
> very synthetic synths (i.e. Aphex Twin or Autechre clones respectively).
> >
> > > i'm guessing that you have other sources of income so you're obviously
> not
> > > worried about people getting your mp3s. in fact, you make them readily
> > > available. but do you think it's right for someone to download amon
> > > tobin's new album when amon really wasn't approving/intending for that
> to
> > > happen?
> >
> > I certainly don't think it's wrong. As the saying goes- there's no such
> thing as bad publicity. I only bought the new Speedy J album because I
> listened to the MP3s on my friend's FTP site. I would've passed it over
> otherwise.
> >
> > For me, and a lot of people I think, MP3s are about equivalent to
> realaudio on forced exposure's site or the listening stations at record
> shops. Nobody ever gets mad at record stores that let you listen to the
> vinyl before you buy it and accordingly they shouldn't get so pissed about
> people previewing with MP3s.
> >
> > Or take a look at bootlegging. You can't tell me that a band like Phish
> would have nearly the popularity they do if I had anything to say about it.
> Err, I mean, if they didn't let people tape and trade their live shows. :P
> >
> > By the same token I can understand why people are offended when somebody
> who likes their album doesn't buy it, providing it's reasonably priced.
> >
> > > with metallica, things are a little bit different. they've basically
> > > turned their backs on how they started out, etc... plus a gazillion
> people
> > > buy their shit anyway. am i saying it's cool to rip off metallica just
> > > because they're bigger? sort of. and obviouly that makes me look like a
> > > hypocrite. but then, i don't like metallica's music anymore, and
> > > regardless of what they might try to make people think, they aren't
> going
> > > to lose any money over a few hundred thousand mp3s. most of those people
> > > probably own the albums anyway.
> >
> > Kind of like the recent Onion article about Kid Rock dying penniless
> because of Napster. :)
> >
> > > look at it this way - would you steal from someone you love? when you
> > > steal (or download or whatever you want to call it) your favorite
> artists'
> > > tracks on mp3 with no intent of ever buying the actual product, that's
> > > what you're doing.
> >
> > I don't, and probably never will, do this. If I like a release I buy it-
> plain and simple. Most of the MP3s in my rather meager collection are
> either MP3s of music I already have on CD or vinyl or else songs that just
> aren't worth buying. By this I mean songs like major label singles where
> the rest of the album is just filler or tracks from a 3x12" that costs $27
> or something.
> >
> > I really think that if people release good music and a reasonable price
> they're not going to have any trouble selling it. The majority of MP3s are
> schlock like Kid Rock, Britney Spears and Atari Teenage Riot- which is about
> as worth paying for as TV commercials are.
> >
> > I swear- most music is only made to fill the space between commercials on
> the radio or episodes of the Real World or Wet T-Shirt Contests live and
> direct from Spring Break in Cancun on MTV.
> >
> > > oh, and miles davis was very much concerned with his music being
> popular.
> > > and it sure as hell didn't take away from anything...
> >
> > There are, of course, exceptions to every rule... Aphex Twins, Led
> Zeppelins and John Coltranes aside I'd say it still probably works in most
> cases. And there is of course a difference between being concerned with
> people liking your music (which I still consider a bad thing- "chase after
> money and security, and your heart will never unclench, care about people's
> approval and you will be their prisoner" or "if you look to others for
> fulfillment, you will never be fulfilled. if your happiness depends on
> money, you will never be happy with yourself" --
> http://www.atomly.com/tao.txt) and writing music for the point of it being
> popular. There is a difference between wanting peer validation and selling
> out- though the line between them does get blurry at times.
> >
> > --
> > :: atomly ::
> >
> > atomly@atomly.com | atomly@atdot.org | atomly@cyrus.net
> > http://www.atomly.com | http://www.mp3.com/atomly
> > [CELL|(888)522.3830] | [CELL|(701)729.1631] | [HOME|(612)676.1817]
> >
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--
And then the evil hurdy-gurdy came tumbling down.
And all that remained
was the purple alien
and his bodhisatva friend
who salivated too much
to have his own friends.
Brian Gause
Technical Writer
Applications Division
Oracle Corporation
(650) 506-1311
bgause@us.oracle.com
The statements and opinions expressed here are my own and do not necessarily
represent those of Oracle Corporation.
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