IDM Mailing Archive

erm, not to go way off on some other tangent here, but, who ever said there was anything random in nature? just because we cant classify or put order to what we see doesnt mean it doesnt have a pattern. I mean, I've read about the Chaos theory and shit like that, but fuck it, everything happens for a reason. as for AE... man come on they didnt just put together some samples and like use fractals to make them and just whip up songs. Of course they put a lot of artistic ingenuity into their release, I'm sure nobody disagrees with me there. Just wanted to note that you cant just use a cool idea like fractals to make a song, its a great idea to base one upon, but if youre like booth/brown or james, you probably want to add stuff to make it sound better, like I'm sure they did. I really don't wish it was as easy as putting in some fractals and arranging some tones that sound ok together, I'm glad its not. ian

quoted 57 lines -----Original Message-----

> -----Original Message----- > From: DynamiCell@aol.com [mailto:DynamiCell@aol.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2000 9:16 PM > To: edhall@screech.weirdnoise.com; idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: Re: [idm] Autechre poll (fractals) > > > In a message dated 9/4/00 10:07:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > edhall@screech.weirdnoise.com writes: > > << I find it incredible, too -- in the original sense of that word: "not > credible." What's your source on this? >> > > Grooves Magazine issue 3 page 40 in the bottom left corner of the > page. Check > their web site at http://www/raom/prg/~audio/grooves/ for info on > their mag.. > which has pretty good distribution for an indy mag. > > "The smokey plastic cover to Autechre's EP7 obscures the > fossilized remains > of various Lsystems, or fractals, each describing a set of rules > that govern > the irate 'growth' of a string of letters, or plant cells or whatever is > being melded over a series of generations. Errors are thrown in > every few > turns so as to tune the work's obvious synthetic appearance, to make its > overall growth appear more natural... yada yada yadda... blah > blah blah...." > > And yes, it is possible to create NON RANDOM sound with > programming fractals. > Look at a fucking fractal, does it appear random to you, look at > a god damn > fern, does that look random? Nature has a certain element of > (for lack of a > better word) randomness. You can harness it (in such case as the > EVOLUTION > OF HUMANS) and create a wonderful object of nature. > > In programming, you would not need to use a random melody, you > could just use > a matrix of the notes you wish to be the main melody, and then a > command to > trigger that note at a certain time in the algorithim. > > You should check more into things... you may find that you don't actually > know everything. : ) > > Just wanted to clear things up. > Nick > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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quoted 4 lines << I find it incredible, too -- in the original sense of that word: "not

><< I find it incredible, too -- in the original sense of that word: "not > credible." What's your source on this? >> > >Grooves Magazine issue 3 page 40 in the bottom left corner of the page.

Check

quoted 1 line their web site at

>their web site at http://www/raom/prg/~audio/grooves/ for info on their

mag..

quoted 4 lines which has pretty good distribution for an indy mag.

> which has pretty good distribution for an indy mag. > >"The smokey plastic cover to Autechre's EP7 obscures the fossilized remains >of various Lsystems, or fractals, each describing a set of rules that

govern

quoted 4 lines the irate 'growth' of a string of letters, or plant cells or whatever is

>the irate 'growth' of a string of letters, or plant cells or whatever is >being melded over a series of generations. Errors are thrown in every few >turns so as to tune the work's obvious synthetic appearance, to make its >overall growth appear more natural... yada yada yadda... blah blah

blah...." yes, this describes the cover and liner art for the cd. where do they mention anything about fractals and music in this quote? maybe i'm missing it...

quoted 1 line And yes, it is possible to create NON RANDOM sound with programming

>And yes, it is possible to create NON RANDOM sound with programming

fractals.

quoted 1 line Look at a fucking fractal, does it appear random to you, look at a god

> Look at a fucking fractal, does it appear random to you, look at a god

damn

quoted 1 line fern, does that look random? Nature has a certain element of (for lack of

>fern, does that look random? Nature has a certain element of (for lack of

a

quoted 2 lines better word) randomness. You can harness it (in such case as the EVOLUTION

>better word) randomness. You can harness it (in such case as the EVOLUTION >OF HUMANS) and create a wonderful object of nature.

well at the base level there really is no randomness; it's just at such a high level of complexity that we have no way of understanding the system, making it essentially random. most fractals only develop into something repeating when there's a huge amount of information within it, and to process a bit of the information would be so complex it would be, subjectively, random.

quoted 1 line In programming, you would not need to use a random melody, you could just

>In programming, you would not need to use a random melody, you could just

use

quoted 2 lines a matrix of the notes you wish to be the main melody, and then a command to

>a matrix of the notes you wish to be the main melody, and then a command to >trigger that note at a certain time in the algorithim.

or just use a sampler..... cheers, \derek --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

In a message dated 9/5/00 7:49:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time, youn0394@umn.edu writes: << yes, this describes the cover and liner art for the cd. where do they mention anything about fractals and music in this quote? maybe i'm missing it... >> its amazing what length people go to in order to prove another person wrong... Maybe I am wrong, if so, I appologize for being mis-informed.. and... realize that this fractal music is possible, but improbable. But I still think that it [EP7] was too alien to be made by traditional means <samplers>.. could It be possible that a mixture of the two was used? I just wanted to create discussion, That is what the IDM list is for, right? Sorry, Nick --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 2 lines << yes, this describes the cover and liner art for the cd. where do they

><< yes, this describes the cover and liner art for the cd. where do they > mention anything about fractals and music in this quote? maybe i'm

missing

quoted 3 lines it... >>

> it... >> > >its amazing what length people go to in order to prove another person

wrong... no, i'm not saying you're wrong - i'm sure autechre think fractals are a really cool way to make music; aphex twin thought it was cool using pictures to make music, and has used them in a track, and fractals are a probably easier way to do it.

quoted 1 line Maybe I am wrong, if so, I appologize for being mis-informed.. and...

>Maybe I am wrong, if so, I appologize for being mis-informed.. and...

realize

quoted 1 line that this fractal music is possible, but improbable. But I still think

>that this fractal music is possible, but improbable. But I still think

that

quoted 1 line it [EP7] was too alien to be made by traditional means <samplers>.. could

>it [EP7] was too alien to be made by traditional means <samplers>.. could

It

quoted 1 line be possible that a mixture of the two was used?

>be possible that a mixture of the two was used?

oh, it's very alien, and oddly enough, comfortably familiar =) i personally think that if fractals were used, they likely sampled sections they liked, instead of re-arranging fractals to create entire songs (which would be even more unlikely, although the repeating patterns of fractals could very well explain the rhythms ;) )

quoted 1 line I just wanted to create discussion, That is what the IDM list is for,

>I just wanted to create discussion, That is what the IDM list is for,

right? oh, i'm here for the discussion as well. i was merely stating that the selection of the Wire you quoted referenced the cover and liner art of said release, and did not make reference to the music. i personally like using individual programs to create odd sounds, and then use those sounds in various degrees to create something, but not the one program for one track. i'm sure that autechre are similar, since they stated in that interview which was posted recently that they have some mates which get sucked into software and don't end up doing anything (cough aphex cough). --- actually, on a somewhat different tangent, i've noticed that aphex, who used to be known for using modified hardware to create all his tracks, really got into computers and has since released significantly less music, whilst someone that used to be compared to him - mike paradinas - still uses basically all hardware, and is quite prolific. this could be that having hardware requires more money, or it could mean absolutely nothing at all. but i've gotten sucked into a couple programs and was more interested with all the weird things i could do than actually producing anything. it of course bears no point in bringing up, but i wonder if any other artists have experienced this (or can be presumed to experience this). cheers, \derek --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Tue, 5 Sep 2000, EggyToast wrote:

quoted 3 lines aphex twin thought it was cool using pictures

> aphex twin thought it was cool using pictures > to make music, and has used them in a track, and fractals are a probably > easier way to do it.

I've used this Mac program called MetaSynth that imports pictures, and "interprets" them as sound. Of course, much like math, the results depend heavily on *how* the program interprets the picture. I was kinda disappointed in that even a huge variety pictures sounded all pretty much the same with this program. The BEST part of the software, though, is that you can put "effects" on the pictures you import. Like stretch, loop, etc. -- and better yet, you can export the effected picture back out into a PICT. As a result, MetaSynth is an abtract way to fuck up a perfectly good picture. :) ======================================================================= Brian MacDonald <brianm@kuci.org> KUCI 88.9 fM in Irvine, CA -- Orange County "Zee Robot attacked zee computer -- in zee outer space...!" ======================================================================= --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 3 lines maybe I wouldn't though. It'd be nice to just have a few things that do

>maybe I wouldn't though. It'd be nice to just have a few things that do >what they do really well and then just make it do what I want. a micro >studio...

actually i think you're on the ball here. most musicians i've spoken to also express an interest in learning a few things really well, and then using those things in new ways to do new things. i mean, it's like a guitarist can play guitar really well, but isn't very skilled at playing bass (although they're similar). they can learn the bass, and be proficient at both, or just play the guitar. most just play guitar (of course that has more to do with the "rock star mentality heh heh). i don't use a ton of software - just a few that i like. and i only have a couple pieces of hardware, but i'm getting to be more familiar with them. it's definitely better than being half-assed at everything ;) cheers, \derek p.s. didn't autechre say they didn't have a lot of equipment, and they liked using their older things in new ways?

quoted 16 lines From: "EggyToast" <youn0394@umn.edu>

>>From: "EggyToast" <youn0394@umn.edu> >>To: <DynamiCell@aol.com>, <idm@hyperreal.org> >>Subject: Re: [idm] Autechre poll (fractals) >>Date: Tue, Sep 5, 2000, 7:31 PM >> > >>><< yes, this describes the cover and liner art for the cd. where do they >>> mention anything about fractals and music in this quote? maybe i'm >> missing >>> it... >> >>> >>>its amazing what length people go to in order to prove another person >> wrong... >> >> no, i'm not saying you're wrong - i'm sure autechre think fractals are a >> really cool way to make music; aphex twin thought it was cool using

pictures

quoted 12 lines to make music, and has used them in a track, and fractals are a probably

>> to make music, and has used them in a track, and fractals are a probably >> easier way to do it. >> >>>Maybe I am wrong, if so, I appologize for being mis-informed.. and... >> realize >>>that this fractal music is possible, but improbable. But I still think >> that >>>it [EP7] was too alien to be made by traditional means <samplers>.. could >> It >>>be possible that a mixture of the two was used? >> >> oh, it's very alien, and oddly enough, comfortably familiar =) i

personally

quoted 1 line think that if fractals were used, they likely sampled sections they

>> think that if fractals were used, they likely sampled sections they

liked,

quoted 1 line instead of re-arranging fractals to create entire songs (which would be

>> instead of re-arranging fractals to create entire songs (which would be

even

quoted 1 line more unlikely, although the repeating patterns of fractals could very

>> more unlikely, although the repeating patterns of fractals could very

well

quoted 7 lines explain the rhythms ;) )

>> explain the rhythms ;) ) >> >>>I just wanted to create discussion, That is what the IDM list is for, >> right? >> >> oh, i'm here for the discussion as well. i was merely stating that the >> selection of the Wire you quoted referenced the cover and liner art of

said

quoted 3 lines release, and did not make reference to the music.

>> release, and did not make reference to the music. >> >> i personally like using individual programs to create odd sounds, and

then

quoted 3 lines use those sounds in various degrees to create something, but not the one

>> use those sounds in various degrees to create something, but not the one >> program for one track. i'm sure that autechre are similar, since they >> stated in that interview which was posted recently that they have some

mates

quoted 1 line which get sucked into software and don't end up doing anything (cough

>> which get sucked into software and don't end up doing anything (cough

aphex

quoted 3 lines cough).

>> cough). >> --- >> actually, on a somewhat different tangent, i've noticed that aphex, who

used

quoted 1 line to be known for using modified hardware to create all his tracks, really

>> to be known for using modified hardware to create all his tracks, really

got

quoted 7 lines into computers and has since released significantly less music, whilst

>> into computers and has since released significantly less music, whilst >> someone that used to be compared to him - mike paradinas - still uses >> basically all hardware, and is quite prolific. >> >> this could be that having hardware requires more money, or it could mean >> absolutely nothing at all. but i've gotten sucked into a couple programs >> and was more interested with all the weird things i could do than

actually

quoted 14 lines producing anything. it of course bears no point in bringing up, but i

>> producing anything. it of course bears no point in bringing up, but i >> wonder if any other artists have experienced this (or can be presumed to >> experience this). >> >> cheers, >> \derek >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >> >> >

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hmm. for me, having to much stuff around me makes it difficult to work with any of it. it just becomes a distraction. I recently was forced to slim the heard in order to buy a new sampler (mine took a crap) and though I sometimes miss the things I've sold (I sampled the hell out of everything) It's nice to have a little more space around me to breath and just have less to deal with and complicate my feeble little mind. However, if I had time to hang out and learn a bunch of software or hardware and make a crap load of odd noises...I'd sure as hell do it.....for a while.....for a while...... maybe I wouldn't though. It'd be nice to just have a few things that do what they do really well and then just make it do what I want. a micro studio... blabbering on and on steve ----------

quoted 5 lines From: "EggyToast" <youn0394@umn.edu>

>From: "EggyToast" <youn0394@umn.edu> >To: <DynamiCell@aol.com>, <idm@hyperreal.org> >Subject: Re: [idm] Autechre poll (fractals) >Date: Tue, Sep 5, 2000, 7:31 PM >

quoted 63 lines << yes, this describes the cover and liner art for the cd. where do they

>><< yes, this describes the cover and liner art for the cd. where do they >> mention anything about fractals and music in this quote? maybe i'm > missing >> it... >> >> >>its amazing what length people go to in order to prove another person > wrong... > > no, i'm not saying you're wrong - i'm sure autechre think fractals are a > really cool way to make music; aphex twin thought it was cool using pictures > to make music, and has used them in a track, and fractals are a probably > easier way to do it. > >>Maybe I am wrong, if so, I appologize for being mis-informed.. and... > realize >>that this fractal music is possible, but improbable. But I still think > that >>it [EP7] was too alien to be made by traditional means <samplers>.. could > It >>be possible that a mixture of the two was used? > > oh, it's very alien, and oddly enough, comfortably familiar =) i personally > think that if fractals were used, they likely sampled sections they liked, > instead of re-arranging fractals to create entire songs (which would be even > more unlikely, although the repeating patterns of fractals could very well > explain the rhythms ;) ) > >>I just wanted to create discussion, That is what the IDM list is for, > right? > > oh, i'm here for the discussion as well. i was merely stating that the > selection of the Wire you quoted referenced the cover and liner art of said > release, and did not make reference to the music. > > i personally like using individual programs to create odd sounds, and then > use those sounds in various degrees to create something, but not the one > program for one track. i'm sure that autechre are similar, since they > stated in that interview which was posted recently that they have some mates > which get sucked into software and don't end up doing anything (cough aphex > cough). > --- > actually, on a somewhat different tangent, i've noticed that aphex, who used > to be known for using modified hardware to create all his tracks, really got > into computers and has since released significantly less music, whilst > someone that used to be compared to him - mike paradinas - still uses > basically all hardware, and is quite prolific. > > this could be that having hardware requires more money, or it could mean > absolutely nothing at all. but i've gotten sucked into a couple programs > and was more interested with all the weird things i could do than actually > producing anything. it of course bears no point in bringing up, but i > wonder if any other artists have experienced this (or can be presumed to > experience this). > > cheers, > \derek > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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I'm pretty sure they're just talking about the use of fractals in the cover art... The URL, BTW is http://www.groovesmag.com/ Cheers, Jacob At 22:15:57 EDT 9/5/00, DynamiCell@aol.com wrote:

quoted 16 lines In a message dated 9/4/00 10:07:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

>In a message dated 9/4/00 10:07:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time, >edhall@screech.weirdnoise.com writes: > ><< I find it incredible, too -- in the original sense of that word: "not > credible." What's your source on this? >> > >Grooves Magazine issue 3 page 40 in the bottom left corner of the page. Check >their web site at http://www/raom/prg/~audio/grooves/ for info on their mag.. > which has pretty good distribution for an indy mag. > >"The smokey plastic cover to Autechre's EP7 obscures the fossilized remains >of various Lsystems, or fractals, each describing a set of rules that govern >the irate 'growth' of a string of letters, or plant cells or whatever is >being melded over a series of generations. Errors are thrown in every few >turns so as to tune the work's obvious synthetic appearance, to make its >overall growth appear more natural... yada yada yadda... blah blah blah...."

-- http://www.gridface.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org