179,854Messages
9,130Senders
30Years
342mboxes

← archive index

Re: [idm] Re: What do you expect from IDM musicians on stage?

4 messages · 4 participants · spans 1 day · search this subject
2001-04-10 15:21joe hoherts Re: [idm] Re: What do you expect from IDM musicians on stage?
├─ 2001-04-10 15:52Guillaume Grenier Re: [idm] Re: What do you expect from IDM musicians on stage?
│ └─ 2001-04-10 20:47>>R107 PRODUCTIONS Re: [idm] Re: What do you expect from IDM musicians on stage?
└─ 2001-04-10 15:53b. fagan Re: [idm] Re: What do you expect from IDM musicians on stage?
expand allcollapse allclick any summary to toggle that message
2001-04-10 15:21joe hohertsactually, didnt mozart compose on the harpsicord? i dont think the piano was invented yet.
From:
joe hoherts
To:
,
Cc:
,
Date:
Tue, 10 Apr 2001 15:21:25 -0000
Subject:
Re: [idm] Re: What do you expect from IDM musicians on stage?
permalink · <F8qBiBsbrL1SCeX8KSh00003daf@hotmail.com>
actually, didnt mozart compose on the harpsicord? i dont think the piano was invented yet.
quoted 174 lines From: "b. fagan" <benfagan@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>>From: "b. fagan" <benfagan@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu> >To: Josh Bown <josh@undertone.com> >CC: swamay <swamay@home.com>, <idm@hyperreal.org> >Subject: Re: [idm] Re: What do you expect from IDM musicians on stage? >Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 08:58:55 -0500 (CDT) > >mozart did not play all the instruments he wrote music for, or at least i >dont think so. he composed, using a piano, he then transcribed his piano >compositions onto paper, and expanded it to other instruments. mozart was >a genius, he could sequence in his head. if we could all do that >sequencing programs would be pointless. alas, we cannot, so they are not. >i dont think its the sounds that come out of computers that define the >electronic music genre (whatever that is), but what the computers can do >with sounds, e.g. new matmos. imho computers and other electronic such >electronic devices are composition tools, and electronic musicians are >first and foremost composers. only a select few can both play the >instruments and compose them, e.g. squarepusher. now im rambling, but >this is a debate that tends to get people all in a hissy about whats >"real" and whats not, which all comes down to personal preference, which >is what this list is all about, so i guess what im saying is that THANK >YOU FOR TALKING ABOUT THIS AND NOT HOW OLD YOU ARE! > >On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, Josh Bown wrote: > > > ok.... hmmmm.... defensive maybe??? > > > > let me try to say this nicely: synths are great, so are effects, but > > they also have a kind of gimmiky quality to them. > > > > Yes, there will be more and more experimentation into new forms of music > > using synths.... > > > > There will also be more and more experimentation using traditional > > instruments... > > > > If you were able to go 1000 years into the future, I would be willing to > > be that people will still be playing traditional instruments.... > > > > also, I can make sounds come out of an acoustic guitar that I can't get > > out of any synth.... > > > > People, especially the listening audience, will always want to hear > > finger squeaks, pick scratches, breath noizes, and other random and > > chaotic sounds that add to the reality and emotionality of music made > > with real/traditional instruments.... > > > > the novelty of psychedelic sci-fi noises coming out of computers is > > wearing off, and music that has that as it's sole or primary voice will > > remain obscure and as a gimmick. > > > > Music that is based on skilled performance of real instruments, > > augmented by various synthetic spice will be what the future of music > > has to offer... > > > > Musical skill will always be the product of practice and dedication. > > Sound Design is not music... it's hollywod special effects.... > > > > music is composition and performance... and if you have a good > > composition, it will sound good when performed by a good performer no > > matter what instrument they use. > > > > If it is sequenced and relies on quantization, then it will sound boring > > to most people and would make a terrible live show... > > > > Again... this is all my opinion..... > > > > swamay wrote: > > > > > > If i hear another guitar, bass, drum set i am going to puke... this >music > > > has been played to death!! it has ALL been done, every combination of >every > > > string imaginable has been done. A real instrument! Synths are real > > > instruments. computers are real instruments. so is a water bottle. > > > insights from nature of music, no thanks, ill take my insight from > > > technology and the inspiration of what wonderful sounds we have all >NOT > > > heard yet. which I guarantee you is not going to come from a "real" > > > instrument such as a guitar, bass, drums, horn or whatever "acoustic" >or non > > > electronic instrument. > > > > > > I can see oscillator or bits. actually i create them. so can you. :) > > > Instead of the string vibrating, i see things on an oscillator. much >more > > > appealing to a person into IDM music. > > > > > > ~swamay~ > > > www.swamay.com > > > www.mp3.com/swamay > > > > > > <<Also, learn to play a real instrument!!! aside from the miraculous > > > insights you will gain into the nature of music, fans like to see >where > > > the sound is coming from, and you can't see oscillators or bits... you > > > can see strings vibrating, some one blowing into a flute... fingers > > > moving, etc>> > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Josh Bown" <josh@undertone.com> > > > To: <idm@hyperreal.org> > > > Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 12:42 PM > > > Subject: [idm] Re: What do you expect from IDM musicians on stage? > > > > > > > my $0.02 > > > > > > > > First off, I am a guitarist, singer songwriter who has performed in > > > > numerous bands etc... and also have a love of IDMish electronic > > > > music.... > > > > > > > > Alomst every single IDM show I have seen has been a waste of my time >and > > > > has bored my ass off, so much so that I am intentionally missing the > > > > autechre show here in seattle coming up, because really, I am sure >their > > > > CDs would sound better anyway.... > > > > > > > > One exception being when I saw Orbital... but then again I was on >heavy > > > > doses of happy pills.... > > > > > > > > What I would like to see is, and I know the technology exists to do >this > > > > because I use it in the studio (Logic Audio) is much more >improvisation, > > > > interactivity etc... The people want to see you play your >instrument. If > > > > your instrument is a mouse then stay in the studio and forget about > > > > touring... At the very least, just have the drum parts be >sequenced > > > > and actually play the other parts live on a keyboard... > > > > > > > > If you were to take it to the limit, you could have it so that every > > > > minute part of your song could be triggered/untriggered/layered in >what > > > > ever order you wanted so that you could extend it, break it down in >new > > > > ways and/or improvise over a little jam section depending on the >croud > > > > mood..... > > > > > > > > Also, learn to play a real instrument!!! aside from the miraculous > > > > insights you will gain into the nature of music, fans like to see >where > > > > the sound is coming from, and you can't see oscillators or bits... >you > > > > can see strings vibrating, some one blowing into a flute... fingers > > > > moving, etc.... > > > > > > > > Basically, if you have any real musical skill your live shows will >be > > > > impressive... twiddling knobs is not musical skill per say... > > > > composition is musical skill, twiddling knobs is sound design, but > > > > performance is a completely other matter altogether.... > > > > > > > > peace > > > > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >
_________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-04-10 15:52Guillaume GrenierOn 10/04/01 11:21, joe hoherts said in living color: > actually, didnt mozart compose on t
From:
Guillaume Grenier
To:
idm
Date:
Tue, 10 Apr 2001 11:52:32 -0400
Subject:
Re: [idm] Re: What do you expect from IDM musicians on stage?
Reply to:
Re: [idm] Re: What do you expect from IDM musicians on stage?
permalink · <B6F8A47F.37F1%gollum@videotron.ca>
On 10/04/01 11:21, joe hoherts said in living color:
quoted 2 lines actually, didnt mozart compose on the harpsicord?> actually, didnt mozart compose on the harpsicord? > i dont think the piano was invented yet.
Actually, it did exist at this time... but it was a vastly different beast than the modern piano. One incarnation of these ancestors of the piano is called "pianoforte". Mozart's works for keyboard were composed for the piano, not the harpsichord. I think that the harpsichord was already beginning its slow decline into oblivion at this point, but don't quote me on that. g. -- Guillaume Grenier - gollum@videotron.ca in space there is no north in space there is no south in space there is no east in space there is no west --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-04-10 20:47>>R107 PRODUCTIONS> On 10/04/01 11:21, joe hoherts said in living color: > >> actually, didnt mozart compose
From:
>>R107 PRODUCTIONS
To:
IDM
Date:
Tue, 10 Apr 2001 20:47:15 +0000
Subject:
Re: [idm] Re: What do you expect from IDM musicians on stage?
Reply to:
Re: [idm] Re: What do you expect from IDM musicians on stage?
permalink · <B6F921D3.2305%jo@r107.co.uk>
quoted 13 lines On 10/04/01 11:21, joe hoherts said in living color:> On 10/04/01 11:21, joe hoherts said in living color: > >> actually, didnt mozart compose on the harpsicord? >> i dont think the piano was invented yet. > > Actually, it did exist at this time... but it was a vastly different beast > than the modern piano. One incarnation of these ancestors of the piano is > called "pianoforte". > > Mozart's works for keyboard were composed for the piano, not the > harpsichord. I think that the harpsichord was already beginning its slow > decline into oblivion at this point, but don't quote me on that. >
yeah.. hence the fact that his writing for keyboard instruments had a great deal more dynamic variation compared to the writing for harpsichord.. as you could only really play one dynamic on the harpsichord. That¹s why it was called pianoforte.. piano = quiet forte = loud God I'm boring. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-04-10 15:53b. faganah, yes, could very well be true. im gonna go hit my head against the wall watch amadeus o
From:
b. fagan
To:
joe hoherts
Cc:
, ,
Date:
Tue, 10 Apr 2001 10:53:35 -0500 (CDT)
Subject:
Re: [idm] Re: What do you expect from IDM musicians on stage?
Reply to:
Re: [idm] Re: What do you expect from IDM musicians on stage?
permalink · <Pine.A41.4.31.0104101052350.99246-100000@green.weeg.uiowa.edu>
ah, yes, could very well be true. im gonna go hit my head against the wall watch amadeus over and over again now as pennance. On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, joe hoherts wrote:
quoted 182 lines actually, didnt mozart compose on the harpsicord?> > actually, didnt mozart compose on the harpsicord? > i dont think the piano was invented yet. > > >From: "b. fagan" <benfagan@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu> > >To: Josh Bown <josh@undertone.com> > >CC: swamay <swamay@home.com>, <idm@hyperreal.org> > >Subject: Re: [idm] Re: What do you expect from IDM musicians on stage? > >Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 08:58:55 -0500 (CDT) > > > >mozart did not play all the instruments he wrote music for, or at least i > >dont think so. he composed, using a piano, he then transcribed his piano > >compositions onto paper, and expanded it to other instruments. mozart was > >a genius, he could sequence in his head. if we could all do that > >sequencing programs would be pointless. alas, we cannot, so they are not. > >i dont think its the sounds that come out of computers that define the > >electronic music genre (whatever that is), but what the computers can do > >with sounds, e.g. new matmos. imho computers and other electronic such > >electronic devices are composition tools, and electronic musicians are > >first and foremost composers. only a select few can both play the > >instruments and compose them, e.g. squarepusher. now im rambling, but > >this is a debate that tends to get people all in a hissy about whats > >"real" and whats not, which all comes down to personal preference, which > >is what this list is all about, so i guess what im saying is that THANK > >YOU FOR TALKING ABOUT THIS AND NOT HOW OLD YOU ARE! > > > >On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, Josh Bown wrote: > > > > > ok.... hmmmm.... defensive maybe??? > > > > > > let me try to say this nicely: synths are great, so are effects, but > > > they also have a kind of gimmiky quality to them. > > > > > > Yes, there will be more and more experimentation into new forms of music > > > using synths.... > > > > > > There will also be more and more experimentation using traditional > > > instruments... > > > > > > If you were able to go 1000 years into the future, I would be willing to > > > be that people will still be playing traditional instruments.... > > > > > > also, I can make sounds come out of an acoustic guitar that I can't get > > > out of any synth.... > > > > > > People, especially the listening audience, will always want to hear > > > finger squeaks, pick scratches, breath noizes, and other random and > > > chaotic sounds that add to the reality and emotionality of music made > > > with real/traditional instruments.... > > > > > > the novelty of psychedelic sci-fi noises coming out of computers is > > > wearing off, and music that has that as it's sole or primary voice will > > > remain obscure and as a gimmick. > > > > > > Music that is based on skilled performance of real instruments, > > > augmented by various synthetic spice will be what the future of music > > > has to offer... > > > > > > Musical skill will always be the product of practice and dedication. > > > Sound Design is not music... it's hollywod special effects.... > > > > > > music is composition and performance... and if you have a good > > > composition, it will sound good when performed by a good performer no > > > matter what instrument they use. > > > > > > If it is sequenced and relies on quantization, then it will sound boring > > > to most people and would make a terrible live show... > > > > > > Again... this is all my opinion..... > > > > > > swamay wrote: > > > > > > > > If i hear another guitar, bass, drum set i am going to puke... this > >music > > > > has been played to death!! it has ALL been done, every combination of > >every > > > > string imaginable has been done. A real instrument! Synths are real > > > > instruments. computers are real instruments. so is a water bottle. > > > > insights from nature of music, no thanks, ill take my insight from > > > > technology and the inspiration of what wonderful sounds we have all > >NOT > > > > heard yet. which I guarantee you is not going to come from a "real" > > > > instrument such as a guitar, bass, drums, horn or whatever "acoustic" > >or non > > > > electronic instrument. > > > > > > > > I can see oscillator or bits. actually i create them. so can you. :) > > > > Instead of the string vibrating, i see things on an oscillator. much > >more > > > > appealing to a person into IDM music. > > > > > > > > ~swamay~ > > > > www.swamay.com > > > > www.mp3.com/swamay > > > > > > > > <<Also, learn to play a real instrument!!! aside from the miraculous > > > > insights you will gain into the nature of music, fans like to see > >where > > > > the sound is coming from, and you can't see oscillators or bits... you > > > > can see strings vibrating, some one blowing into a flute... fingers > > > > moving, etc>> > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Josh Bown" <josh@undertone.com> > > > > To: <idm@hyperreal.org> > > > > Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 12:42 PM > > > > Subject: [idm] Re: What do you expect from IDM musicians on stage? > > > > > > > > > my $0.02 > > > > > > > > > > First off, I am a guitarist, singer songwriter who has performed in > > > > > numerous bands etc... and also have a love of IDMish electronic > > > > > music.... > > > > > > > > > > Alomst every single IDM show I have seen has been a waste of my time > >and > > > > > has bored my ass off, so much so that I am intentionally missing the > > > > > autechre show here in seattle coming up, because really, I am sure > >their > > > > > CDs would sound better anyway.... > > > > > > > > > > One exception being when I saw Orbital... but then again I was on > >heavy > > > > > doses of happy pills.... > > > > > > > > > > What I would like to see is, and I know the technology exists to do > >this > > > > > because I use it in the studio (Logic Audio) is much more > >improvisation, > > > > > interactivity etc... The people want to see you play your > >instrument. If > > > > > your instrument is a mouse then stay in the studio and forget about > > > > > touring... At the very least, just have the drum parts be > >sequenced > > > > > and actually play the other parts live on a keyboard... > > > > > > > > > > If you were to take it to the limit, you could have it so that every > > > > > minute part of your song could be triggered/untriggered/layered in > >what > > > > > ever order you wanted so that you could extend it, break it down in > >new > > > > > ways and/or improvise over a little jam section depending on the > >croud > > > > > mood..... > > > > > > > > > > Also, learn to play a real instrument!!! aside from the miraculous > > > > > insights you will gain into the nature of music, fans like to see > >where > > > > > the sound is coming from, and you can't see oscillators or bits... > >you > > > > > can see strings vibrating, some one blowing into a flute... fingers > > > > > moving, etc.... > > > > > > > > > > Basically, if you have any real musical skill your live shows will > >be > > > > > impressive... twiddling knobs is not musical skill per say... > > > > > composition is musical skill, twiddling knobs is sound design, but > > > > > performance is a completely other matter altogether.... > > > > > > > > > > peace > > > > > > > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. >
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org