IDM Mailing Archive

I've (finally) got AI2 and have just worked my way through the UK-Dance discussions on the AI series that the Designers Republic decided to include in the layout (which did my head in after a while), as well as the "Where In Your World?" text on the back. A few thoughts... 1. Ages ago now I (unintentionally) kicked off the AI good/shite debate by stating that I thought AI was pretty damn good. Jon Drukman didn't; mainly due to the B12/Black Dog Detroit techno sound similarities. Fair enough; I thought it was good and relatively new but then I missed out on the May/Atkins/Transmat "true" techno era so it was all pretty new to me at the time. David Toop (the guy who wrote the back cover AI2 text; maybe he is the Warp/ Designer's Republic net spy?) seems to dismiss all this by stating that such "partisan analyses" (yeah; cheers mate) is irrelevant. I don't think it is, simply because Black Dog, B12, Hawtin, etc. have all stated their appreciation for the old Detroit sound. For them, its a starting point for their music and not due to the "society and language" of humans as David Toop indicates. It _could_ be a bit of both; however its definitely wrong to dismiss all recent electronic innovators (May, Eno, Cage, Reich, Tangerine Dream, etc.) as David does. 2. Reading the extracts on the LP design, Steve Hebditch pointed out that Warp can shift their products fairly well due to the packaging and promotion of the material. This seems, in part, linked to the whole "selling" of the AI situation with some people immediately accepting this "new" form of music and others dismissing it as pretentious wank with clever marketing. Whatever; Warp seem determined to carry on with this theme and ignore any claims that say otherwise. Evidence of this is shown below the AI logo in the advert in the NME (for AI2); "Meaningless marketing slogan : NOT APPLICABLE" It is also shown in the definition of artificial intelligence included on the back of AI2; "One test for AI requires that performance improves with experience and operation." Ultimately, I suppose it doesn't really matter whether it is a totally new form of listening experience or not; if the music is good then we'll keep on buying. Anyways, lets see what the AI2 series of albums are going to be like first; with or without the hype. The AI 'Motion' video looks rather tasty too... Sorry if this bored you senseless; its just probably me getting paranoid in my old age :-) There must have been a reason for the Des.Republic to include the UK-Dance discussions; I just wanted to know why. Are they trying to show public reaction to AI? Are they saying "look at this bunch of wankers talking about Detroit techno when really AI is part of human society...blah, blah...Indian cultures had it...etc..."? Are they just jumping on the net-hype bandwagon? Or maybe they thought it just looked nice... <Sigh> I just don't know... [CiM] -- __ Simon Walley | 1E 76 9A 0D 78 3A 3B 1C | /\ \ <u9323899@sys.uea.ac.uk> | A1 60 73 AE 8B 0E E0 B6 | /--\_\

On Thu, 9 Jun 1994, CiM wrote:

quoted 4 lines David Toop (the guy who wrote the back cover AI2 text; maybe he is the Warp/

> > David Toop (the guy who wrote the back cover AI2 text; maybe he is the Warp/ > Designer's Republic net spy?) seems to dismiss all this by stating that such > "partisan analyses" (yeah; cheers mate) is irrelevant. I don't think it is,

You mean you bothered to read this crap? What a load of pretentious bollocks! The guy needs some lessons in English too...

quoted 3 lines theme and ignore any claims that say otherwise. Evidence of this is shown

> theme and ignore any claims that say otherwise. Evidence of this is shown > below the AI logo in the advert in the NME (for AI2); > "Meaningless marketing slogan : NOT APPLICABLE"

Yeah, I noticed this and thought it was pretty cool at first, but now I'm not so sure, 'cos of course saying 'oh this is meaningless marketing hype' IS in fact meaningless marketing hype... However I think there is some degree of sincerity there, and in any case it shows a self-awareness of their own hype. Perhaps Warp feel that they have been misinterpreted...

quoted 2 lines Anyways, lets see what the AI2 series of albums are going to be like first;

> Anyways, lets see what the AI2 series of albums are going to be like first; > with or without the hype. The AI 'Motion' video looks rather tasty too...

Are they going to do a whole series of AI2s? like AI1? Is this a good idea? Tho' I suppose ultimately a R. H. Kirk record is still RHK whether it has an AI logo on the front or not...

quoted 8 lines Sorry if this bored you senseless; its just probably me getting paranoid in

> Sorry if this bored you senseless; its just probably me getting paranoid in > my old age :-) There must have been a reason for the Des.Republic to > include the UK-Dance discussions; I just wanted to know why. Are they trying > to show public reaction to AI? Are they saying "look at this bunch of > wankers talking about Detroit techno when really AI is part of human > society...blah, blah...Indian cultures had it...etc..."? Are they just > jumping on the net-hype bandwagon? Or maybe they thought it just looked > nice...

I think it was used (fairly obviously) because a) It looks good and b) It's suitably pretentious. Surely most people won't have a clue what it is or where it comes from (the email inserts that is)... greg 3 0 3

On Thu, 9 Jun 1994, greg303 wrote:

quoted 8 lines On Thu, 9 Jun 1994, CiM wrote:

> On Thu, 9 Jun 1994, CiM wrote: > > > > David Toop (the guy who wrote the back cover AI2 text; maybe he is the Warp/ > > Designer's Republic net spy?) seems to dismiss all this by stating that such > > "partisan analyses" (yeah; cheers mate) is irrelevant. I don't think it is, > > You mean you bothered to read this crap? What a load of pretentious > bollocks! The guy needs some lessons in English too...

He-he. But wasn't it trying to reinforce the idea of ELM? It seemed to be responding directly to the argument that AI is just another collection of electronic music and nothing else.

quoted 5 lines Yeah, I noticed this and thought it was pretty cool at first, but now I'm

> Yeah, I noticed this and thought it was pretty cool at first, but now I'm > not so sure, 'cos of course saying 'oh this is meaningless marketing > hype' IS in fact meaningless marketing hype... However I think there is > some degree of sincerity there, and in any case it shows a self-awareness > of their own hype. Perhaps Warp feel that they have been misinterpreted...

I think they are merely strengthening their "AI is a concept" idea. I rememeber reading interviews with the first AI series contributers in Mixmag and some of them thought that maybe it _was_ a wee bit pretentious but ultimately it was the music that mattered, not the category assigned to it.

quoted 4 lines Anyways, lets see what the AI2 series of albums are going to be like first;

> > Anyways, lets see what the AI2 series of albums are going to be like first; > > with or without the hype. The AI 'Motion' video looks rather tasty too... > > Are they going to do a whole series of AI2s like AI1?

Uh, I guessed so. But maybe not... Anyone got any info on this?

quoted 2 lines Is this a good idea? Tho' I suppose ultimately a R. H. Kirk record is

> Is this a good idea? Tho' I suppose ultimately a R. H. Kirk record is > still RHK whether > it has an AI logo on the front or not...

I think it's a good idea although I just see it as another (easier) way to pick up music I like. I don't see it as "Oh, I must get the next AI release"; I look at as "Great; new Speedy J release. Must have it" or whatever.

quoted 3 lines I think it was used (fairly obviously) because a) It looks good and b)

> I think it was used (fairly obviously) because a) It looks good and b) > It's suitably pretentious. Surely most people won't have a clue what it > is or where it comes from (the email inserts that is)...

Ummm, yeah I guess so. The use of the email gives it a certain technological feel that ties in with what AI is about. But would they have used the email idea if the content was not about AI? [CiM]

quoted 3 lines I think it's a good idea although I just see it as another (easier) way to

> I think it's a good idea although I just see it as another (easier) way to > pick up music I like. I don't see it as "Oh, I must get the next AI release"; > I look at as "Great; new Speedy J release. Must have it" or whatever.

I bought many of the AI albums before I bought the compilation, and in many cases I'd never heard the artists before. So I *did* say to myself "another AI album by an artist I'm not familliar with -- maybe I should check it out" On the subject of the e-mail, I seem to remember some people saying it was from the IDM list. It may be that this thread was cross-posted to both uk-dance and IDM, but I think the Designers Replublic got it from the uk-dance digest. (The headers have been digestified, and I don't think IDM is available as a digest.) Cosmic