quoted 2 lines I mean no disrespect, and I'm sure you have a valid point, but at the
>I mean no disrespect, and I'm sure you have a valid point, but at the
> >present time I cant discern it, so I'd appreciate some clarification.
Here we go???Ok, at no point did I say making money was a bad thing,
although I certainly think that a little thought into how you make your
money (whether from music or not) might not go amiss if you have any sort of
(social) conscience (again not a judgement: if you can justify your position
and feel ok about that, then fine).
The original message was about musicians signed to major labels making
political/social comment, that was what I was addressing and I will stand by
what I said (which is basically that they are hypocrites).
On other points raised:
quoted 3 lines That must suck to be a musician of whom people have heard.
>That must suck to be a musician of whom people have heard.
>I mean how horrible would it be to have someone want to give you money >for
>doing what you were born to do?
There are many, many examples of well known musicians/bands being
independent and making money (fugazi/dischord records being the finest
example of a group of people who have made a living from releasing records
cheaply, independently distributed etc without having anything to do with
major labels).
quoted 2 lines I tell you what, I'd rather be a waiter working for tips than to have >some
>I tell you what, I'd rather be a waiter working for tips than to have >some
>big corporation feel my work was worth marketing to the masses.
My point would be that in the many, many cases the artists have to do both,
as they are not provided with a living purely from record sales, as the
majors take a HUGE cut of any money made (this is also true of some
independents who operate in the same manner as the majors). I have friends
who have been signed to majors, sold many, many records (over 50,000), got
lots of press/glowing reviews but did not make a fucking penny above what
they got as an advance (which was UKP10,000, split between 5 people and was
all used to buy equipment).
What?s the break even point on an independently released cd/lp? One hell of
a lot less than 50,000 copies.
quoted 5 lines When I want to buy a Mu-Ziq cd I go to the music store and buy it. How
>When I want to buy a Mu-Ziq cd I go to the music store and buy it. How
>lame.
>I much prefer driving all over a metroplex looking for ANY copies of
>ANYthing done by DMX Krew only to find that none of the shops have ever had
>it.
There are plenty of independent distributors and retailers around, you can
always order it from them, if you so desire.
quoted 3 lines Better than that, though, I like scouring the internet to find every
>Better than that, though, I like scouring the internet to find every
> >retailer in backorder. Better still, I like paying in pounds to
> >mailorder it from the UK.
It must be a terrible burden that you have to wait a while for a record you
really want. If only I could have everything now, so I can consume, consume,
consume.
quoted 3 lines The independent label was "virtually" non-existent when Louis A., >Miles,
>The independent label was "virtually" non-existent when Louis A., >Miles,
>so forth were recording and the release of music was co->ordinated along
>other lines - rather than goal for profit, so forth.
Its only been in the past 10-20 years that the major labels have
consolidated into the 5/6 huge corporations that now control 90 per cent
plus of all music sold.
quoted 3 lines I actually remember hearing Paul McCartney say they were influenced by
>I actually remember hearing Paul McCartney say they were influenced by
>Stockhausen in the Sgt. Peppers / Magical Mystery Tour period, so I >think
>they were pretty open minded.
True, but they had george martin (the record label?s producer) in the
studio to make sure that they recorded stuff that was sellable, marketable
and acceptable to their bosses.
quoted 4 lines I think indie labels are just as concerned with the shifting of units as
>I think indie labels are just as concerned with the shifting of units as
>majors are and if your favorite indie IDM label had the financial >backing
>or the demand for records that the majors do, they would press >more than
>1000 copies of a release.
I don?t think most independent labels were established to make money, they
were est. to release music (although the bottom line of not losing money is
certainly an imperative)
Skam could press many thousands of records if they wished to?.but instead
they do things like MASK 100/200, which would have to lose money (or just
break even), simply through economies of scale.
quoted 3 lines And plus people like Aphex and Autechre sell
>And plus people like Aphex and Autechre sell
>tens if not hundreds of thousands of records worldwide so is their music
>demeaned by this shifting of a lot of units ?
not at all, see above.
quoted 4 lines I mean if you wanna be a
>I mean if you wanna be a
>purist, I think the moment you charge any money for a piece of art you
>demean it, doesn't matter what the situation is, but how the hell else >are
>artists supposed to survive ? They're treated like shit as it is.
Treated like shit by whom? You have the choice who to sign to, you sign the
contract. Again, I would cite dischord as a fine example of a label that
does not treat its artists like shit.
quoted 6 lines And saying that the quality of music was not a key criteria for people
>And saying that the quality of music was not a key criteria for people
>like The Beatles, Dylan (well at least in the early years) and/or The
>Clash is absurd.
>Aphex himself has said that he only releases his more accessible music
>because he doesn't think people would be interested in his really
>experimental material.
Aren?t these two points contradicting each other?
quoted 4 lines the discussion was about u2, and the fact that they make pious political
>the discussion was about u2, and the fact that they make pious political
>comments about a situation they have greatly benefitted from (and to a
>certain extent upholding),as have RATM, nirvana, sex pistols etc..i just
>find it distastful and dishonest.quoted 4 lines That's such ridiculous nonsense. U2, RATM (they ARE rather
>That's such ridiculous nonsense. U2, RATM (they ARE rather
>hypocritical), Nirvana, Sex Pistols, etc. or the music industry in >general
>are responsible for or have benefited from the plight of African >countries
>? Maybe you can say that about Queen though. :-)
did I mention Africa? Oh, bono did. He?s signed to a huge multi-national
conglomerate that has a single bottom line: profit for shareholders, no
matter how its done?..cd pressing plant in the USA too expensive? Close it
and open one in a third world country and employ locals at a fraction of the
cost. And you can work them harder!! If any get sick from over work, get
some others in, they?re desperate for a job.
As we are being told constantly we now live in a globalised world.
quoted 4 lines Since we are all talking about Miles Davis, I'm going to go ahead and >ask:
>Since we are all talking about Miles Davis, I'm going to go ahead and >ask:
>when you listen to >"Kind of Blue", do you hear the sound of >Columbia's
>corporate greed coming through your >speakers, or some of >the most
>beautiful and amazing jazz ever recorded? Hmmmm
but that would be ignoring the fact that much of mile?s later work was not
released, and some still hasn?t, simply because it was not deemed
commercially viable.
I hope I haven?t upset too many people. Love matt
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