IDM Mailing Archive

quoted 16 lines Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 20:25:48 EDT

>Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 20:25:48 EDT >From: Djslacker227@aol.com > >Forget pop we're famous: > >Darren Keast writes in an article about kid 606 pissing off "the snobby >electronic music intelligentsia" in the latest issue of URB > >"people on the idm e-mail list ridicule him... deviant listeners like those >in the bitchy intelligent dance music scene...haters on the idm list whine >that he gets too much attention outside their exclusive ranks" > >URB is definitely a pop culture magazine, and I think that it confirms my >conjecture that the idm list and experimental techno have an elitist image, >especially thanks to that whole kid 606/lexaunculpt string that pretty much >killed any rep or integrity that the list had at all.

let's be honest: URB is the last place anyone would go to for reputation and integrity. while we breathe rarer, purer air up here in the mountains of idm-l, at least we can justify what we like. we can put a name on it and call it Good. and the list's disagreements over what is good music is mostly both entertaining and intelligent. at the risk of being blunt, the whole dsp/noise scene with kid606 as its poster child is an overrated fad, fed on the pseudo-punk image of the artists and not much more. only white college-age kids can make hip-hop unlistenable and get pats on the back from pop culture rags. it may be sound or noise, but it's not music any more than my aging refrigerator condensor's decaying, chaotic whine at three in the morning is music. i'll believe that kid606 and similarly styled musicians are legitimate artists when you start hearing crunching, arrhythmic dsp crap in the next britney spears or madonna album. it would mean either people are dumb as paint and they'll buy anything mtv tells them to, or there really is something aesthetic that this technique (and that's all it is) adds to a piece of music. until then, i don't buy the hype. and i sure as hell won't look to URB for what i should consider "legitmate" music and what i should not. (and as to whether idm-l has any "rep" or "integrity" or "credibility" any more is another discussion entirely, but is URB really the place to start looking for an answer?) -a. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Tue, 26 Sep 2000, Alex Reynolds wrote:

quoted 2 lines at the risk of being blunt, the whole dsp/noise scene with kid606 as

> at the risk of being blunt, the whole dsp/noise scene with kid606 as > its poster child is an overrated fad

oh good lord. please. the noise stuff just a fad? as someone who came out of the noise scene into the idm scene, i am QUITE attracted to the meshing of the 2 genres. in the respect, i am GLAD the music is getting more chaotic.. cus that token IDM fad was growing old.

quoted 6 lines fed on the pseudo-punk image of

> fed on the pseudo-punk image of > the artists and not much more. only white college-age kids can make > hip-hop unlistenable and get pats on the back from pop culture rags. it > may be sound or noise, but it's not music any more than my aging > refrigerator condensor's decaying, chaotic whine at three in the > morning is music.

yeah. those silly kids and their rock music. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

At 7:41 AM -0700 9/26/00, indecision_of_a_child wrote:

quoted 8 lines fed on the pseudo-punk image of

>> fed on the pseudo-punk image of >> the artists and not much more. only white college-age kids can make >> hip-hop unlistenable and get pats on the back from pop culture rags. it >> may be sound or noise, but it's not music any more than my aging >> refrigerator condensor's decaying, chaotic whine at three in the >> morning is music. > >yeah. those silly kids and their rock music.

oh, knock it off with that old vs. young garbage. it has to do with pop culture and the media trying to build up an image for this lot, to move product. i, too, am familiar with noise/glitch sound (fripp/oval/xenakis/etc.) and i can distinguish what sounds good to me with what is also called "marketing bullshit". the music industry is being dishonest with people, encouraging those not familiar with the music to put down cash for it, to pay money to join in the fake-punk attitude, and i don't think that's right. good music is not what some piece of trash of a corporate magazine calls good music. some of you may really enjoy k*d606 and friends, and that's fair. i suppose i'm being a bit heavy-handed in my criticism of their work. but anyone with a lick of sense knows what's going on behind the "scene", so to speak, with this ongoing promotional push. -a. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Okay I have a question: I get the feeling from this thread that the media actually covers all the music we discuss here. Is this true? I had no idea. Could I have read ahead of time that I wouldn't have liked the shitkatapult label? Everything I know aboutthis stuff I get from online. This list, fan's interviews, record label web sites. I saw some goofy movie about k606 online. it was cheesy, but i think that was the point. So I can goto a newstand and learn all about these releases just the same? I will be surprised if the answer is yes. -Gil ps, do people still buy magazines besides at the grocery store? pps, this month's vogue has some tips for better sex! --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Pretty funny/weird of this Alex Reynolds fellow to respond to the URB posting with more name calling and elitist remarks. --- Alex Reynolds <reynolda@sas.upenn.edu> wrote:

quoted 76 lines Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 20:25:48 EDT

> >Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 20:25:48 EDT > >From: Djslacker227@aol.com > > > >Forget pop we're famous: > > > >Darren Keast writes in an article about kid 606 > pissing off "the snobby > >electronic music intelligentsia" in the latest > issue of URB > > > >"people on the idm e-mail list ridicule him... > deviant listeners like those > >in the bitchy intelligent dance music > scene...haters on the idm list whine > >that he gets too much attention outside their > exclusive ranks" > > > >URB is definitely a pop culture magazine, and I > think that it confirms my > >conjecture that the idm list and experimental > techno have an elitist image, > >especially thanks to that whole kid 606/lexaunculpt > string that pretty much > >killed any rep or integrity that the list had at > all. > > let's be honest: URB is the last place anyone would > go to for > reputation and integrity. while we breathe rarer, > purer air up here > in the mountains of idm-l, at least we can justify > what we like. we > can put a name on it and call it Good. and the > list's disagreements > over what is good music is mostly both entertaining > and intelligent. > > at the risk of being blunt, the whole dsp/noise > scene with kid606 as > its poster child is an overrated fad, fed on the > pseudo-punk image of > the artists and not much more. only white > college-age kids can make > hip-hop unlistenable and get pats on the back from > pop culture rags. it > may be sound or noise, but it's not music any more > than my aging > refrigerator condensor's decaying, chaotic whine at > three in the > morning is music. > > i'll believe that kid606 and similarly styled > musicians are > legitimate artists when you start hearing crunching, > arrhythmic dsp > crap in the next britney spears or madonna album. it > would mean > either people are dumb as paint and they'll buy > anything mtv tells > them to, or there really is something aesthetic that > this technique > (and that's all it is) adds to a piece of music. > > until then, i don't buy the hype. and i sure as hell > won't look to > URB for what i should consider "legitmate" music and > what i should > not. (and as to whether idm-l has any "rep" or > "integrity" or > "credibility" any more is another discussion > entirely, but is URB > really the place to start looking for an answer?) > > -a. > >

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quoted 8 lines at the risk of being blunt, the whole dsp/noise scene with kid606 as

> at the risk of being blunt, the whole dsp/noise scene with kid606 as > its poster child is an overrated fad, fed on the pseudo-punk image of > the artists and not much more. only white college-age kids can make > hip-hop unlistenable and get pats on the back from pop culture rags. it > may be sound or noise, but it's not music any more than my aging > refrigerator condensor's decaying, chaotic whine at three in the > morning is music. >

Yeah, and they can't even play instruments! Call that music? Youth of today! Bah. d. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Why is it that white college kids are always making fun of white college kids? This is something I can never understand. Original Message: ----------------- From: Alex Reynolds reynolda@sas.upenn.edu Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 08:56:38 -0400 Subject: [idm] urb and integrity, yech.. at the risk of being blunt, the whole dsp/noise scene with kid606 as its poster child is an overrated fad, fed on the pseudo-punk image of the artists and not much more. only white college-age kids can make hip-hop unlistenable and get pats on the back from pop culture rags. it may be sound or noise, but it's not music any more than my aging refrigerator condensor's decaying, chaotic whine at three in the morning is music. For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org ------------------------------------------------------------------- This message has been posted from Mail2Web http://www.mail2web.com/ Web Hosting for $9.95 per month! Visit: http://www.yourhosting.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Tue, Sep 26, 2000 at 10:53:24AM -0400, wells@hiro.submute.net wrote:

quoted 2 lines Why is it that white college kids are always making fun of white

> Why is it that white college kids are always making fun of white > college kids? This is something I can never understand.

Is there an IDM quote list to which this can be added or something? -- :: atomly :: atomly@atomly.com | atomly@atdot.org | atomly@curiousnetworks.com http://www.atomly.com | http://www.mp3.com/atomly --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I looked at his web site. Original Message: ----------------- From: Josh Davison yoshi@enteract.com Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 09:55:10 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [idm] urb and integrity, yech.. On Tue, 26 Sep 2000, wells@hiro.submute.net wrote:

quoted 1 line Why is it that white college kids are always making fun of white college kids? This is som

> Why is it that white college kids are always making fun of white college kids? This is something I can never understand

ah, how do you know alex is white?

quoted 9 lines Original Message:

> > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Alex Reynolds reynolda@sas.upenn.edu > Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 08:56:38 -0400 > Subject: [idm] urb and integrity, yech.. > > at the risk of being blunt, the whole dsp/noise scene with kid606 as > its poster child is an overrated fad, fed on the pseudo-punk image of

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quoted 7 lines From: Josh Davison yoshi@enteract.com

>From: Josh Davison yoshi@enteract.com > >On Tue, 26 Sep 2000, wells@hiro.submute.net wrote: >> Why is it that white college kids are always making fun of white >>college kids? This is something I can never understand > >ah, how do you know alex is white?

one give-away is that there aren't very many non-caucasians who come from wales... -a. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 9 lines at the risk of being blunt, the whole dsp/noise scene with kid606 as

>> at the risk of being blunt, the whole dsp/noise scene with kid606 as >> its poster child is an overrated fad, fed on the pseudo-punk image of >> the artists and not much more. only white college-age kids can make >> hip-hop unlistenable and get pats on the back from pop culture rags. it >> may be sound or noise, but it's not music any more than my aging >> refrigerator condensor's decaying, chaotic whine at three in the >> morning is music. > > Why is it that white college kids are always making fun of white college

kids? This is something I can never understand. uh..and Kid606 isn't even a college kid. but what i'd really like to know is, who is "the whole dsp/noise scene with kid606 as its poster child"? is it Mego/Mille Plateaux/etc & the European glitch noise guys, or Schematic/RKK/Tigerbeat6/etc & the American dsp fuckery scene? because there's a giant difference. I haven't really heard much "dsp/noise" that doesn't have a lot of trappings of conventional music (beats, maybe a melody) coming out of the US except for some of the Schematic's more experimental stuff, and I was under the impression that Reynolds was all enamored with that catalog. and I also love how Reynolds is *against* "music that's not music" but is he also disparaging of "pop culture rags." ie, "Make listenable, semi-conventional music, but don't make it so well that it will be popular!" -rk ps: I also love how I called Alex Reynolds "Reynolds" as if I were his gym teacher. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Tue, Sep 26, 2000 at 11:15:37AM -0400, Rjyan Kidwell wrote:

quoted 8 lines but what i'd really like to know is, who is "the whole dsp/noise scene with

> but what i'd really like to know is, who is "the whole dsp/noise scene with > kid606 as its poster child"? is it Mego/Mille Plateaux/etc & the European > glitch noise guys, or Schematic/RKK/Tigerbeat6/etc & the American dsp > fuckery scene? because there's a giant difference. I haven't really heard > much "dsp/noise" that doesn't have a lot of trappings of conventional music > (beats, maybe a melody) coming out of the US except for some of the > Schematic's more experimental stuff, and I was under the impression that > Reynolds was all enamored with that catalog.

Yea, the US stuff is "glitch" but it certainly doesn't fit in the same category as the gltich noise stuff... It definitely draws its influences from it, but I agree that that it's somewhere between glitch noise and IDM. I really think the reason that Kid606 is so popular is because of his image. Sure, I love his music, but I like a lot of other music too. Somebody e-mailed the other day asking why something like Proem isn't getting the coverage that Kid is. Well, it's pretty obvious to me. Could you see Proem opening for Fantomas? Could you see kids who were into punk and now looking for something to listen to getting into Proem? IDM artists make it a habit to be introverted and camera shy. I've never seen a picture of Proem in my life. This is why Aphex was the poster boy of IDM for so long. Sure, once again, his music was good, but it was his image that made him so popular. People who know nothing about IDM tell me that he owns a tank, lives in a bank vault and only sleeps one hour a week. There are whole webpages devoted to his idiosyncracies. In this same vein, Kid606 has established himself as a "rockstar" of IDM. Much the way rap never *really* took off until people like Snoop and Puffy were willing to become rockstars, IDM won't become widely accepted (not that it really wants to be, a lot of the time) until this same phenomenon happens. The day I see Proem doing lines of coke mixed with k off the chests of 15 year old candy-girl fans in front of crowds of 10,000 people, I'll know that they'll be on the cover of every magazine within a month. Until IDM artists are willing to be in the limelight, they are destined to stay only mildly popular as they are today.

quoted 4 lines and I also love how Reynolds is *against* "music that's not music" but is h

> and I also love how Reynolds is *against* "music that's not music" but is he > also disparaging of "pop culture rags." ie, "Make listenable, > semi-conventional music, but don't make it so well that it will be > popular!"

That man is so clueless, it hurts. Did you read his fucking feature on Dub? Christ.

quoted 2 lines ps: I also love how I called Alex Reynolds "Reynolds" as if I were his gym

> ps: I also love how I called Alex Reynolds "Reynolds" as if I were his gym > teacher.

WHAT'S THE MATTER, REYNOLDS? CAN'T DO A PULLUP? MAYBE YOU SHOULD BE IN HOME EC WITH THE GIRLS! -- :: atomly :: atomly@atomly.com | atomly@atdot.org | atomly@curiousnetworks.com http://www.atomly.com | http://www.mp3.com/atomly --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

atomly wrote: "That man is so clueless, it hurts. Did you read his fucking feature on Dub? Christ." What feature on Dub is this? Are you sure you are not mistaking Alex Reynolds for Simon Reynolds? Just wanted to make that distinction...if only for my own piece of mind... nate --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 14 lines Somebody e-mailed the other day asking why something like Proem isn't

> Somebody e-mailed the other day asking why something like Proem isn't > getting the coverage that Kid is. Well, it's pretty obvious to me. > > Could you see Proem opening for Fantomas? Could you see kids who were > into punk and now looking for something to listen to getting into Proem? > > IDM artists make it a habit to be introverted and camera shy. I've > never seen a picture of Proem in my life. > > The day I see Proem doing lines of coke mixed with k off the chests of > 15 year old candy-girl fans in front of crowds of 10,000 people, I'll > know that they'll be on the cover of every magazine within a month. > Until IDM artists are willing to be in the limelight, they are destined > to stay only mildly popular as they are today.

*whimper* Guys I'm trying! *sigh* May have something coming through in a few weeks. Keep all fingers crossed. As for Proem and his impending fame: My female friends (some of them) find him quite attractive, but he is taken last I heard. Coke and K? Of course we'll do it, we're fucking rawk stars, d00d! We're famous! Pictures of Proem? I'm downloading the files from my home PC now to sort through them. I'll post a link to a pic or two when I find out where they is. Or... you can go see him in New York at Sin Festival, plug plug. http://www.sonictherapy.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 8 lines Somebody e-mailed the other day asking why something like Proem isn't

> Somebody e-mailed the other day asking why something like Proem isn't > getting the coverage that Kid is. Well, it's pretty obvious to me. > > Could you see Proem opening for Fantomas? Could you see kids who were > into punk and now looking for something to listen to getting into Proem? > > IDM artists make it a habit to be introverted and camera shy. I've > never seen a picture of Proem in my life.

fucking a, right on. like it or not, there are electronic music artists with *ambition*. artists who believe enough in this little scene to want to tell other people about it, people who might not otherwise get the chance to hear it. i'll never get tired of saying this: fuck an underachiever hide-in-my-cave aesthetic. i think the scene is MORE than ready for experimental electronic music artists who talk. to other people. -rk, talker ps: this is not an invitation for some retards to be like "I'm an IDM artist who talks! And this is what I say: go to my mp3.com site and download my dope tracks! one is named 'x//ilclitclip'!" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Oh come on Rjyan ! Are you saying that people who tend to be reclusive and introverted lack ambition and are underachievers ? God help IDM if extroverts like Kid606 are its spokespersons to the rest of the world ! (that isn't meant to sound so dramatic) I don't know, personally I don't give a shit about IDM's popularity. I don't think people who buy Third Eye Matchbox 182 records would help out the IDM community in any way besides financially. Call me arrogant and elitist, I don't care. I prefer things small and tightknit and where quality control is prevalent. I don't really believe in "the people" and making music for "the people" and all that. Maybe that's cuz I grew up under communism and I've seen what this "for the people" shite comes to in reality. Hope this doesn't sound like I don't have a lot of compassion for other people, cuz I certainly do, I just mean that I don't believe in the "masses". Andrei On Tue, 26 Sep 2000, Rjyan Kidwell wrote:

quoted 19 lines Somebody e-mailed the other day asking why something like Proem isn't

> > Somebody e-mailed the other day asking why something like Proem isn't > > getting the coverage that Kid is. Well, it's pretty obvious to me. > > > > Could you see Proem opening for Fantomas? Could you see kids who were > > into punk and now looking for something to listen to getting into Proem? > > > > IDM artists make it a habit to be introverted and camera shy. I've > > never seen a picture of Proem in my life. > > fucking a, right on. > like it or not, there are electronic music artists with *ambition*. artists > who believe enough in this little scene to want to tell other people about > it, people who might not otherwise get the chance to hear it. > > i'll never get tired of saying this: fuck an underachiever hide-in-my-cave > aesthetic. > > i think the scene is MORE than ready for experimental electronic music > artists who talk. to other people.

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I guess Alex must be an albino or something then? Is he a "black" or "white" or "other" albino?!:> Get my drift, (probably not) C Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 11:06:10 -0400 To: "yoshi@enteract.com" <yoshi@enteract.com>, "wells@hiro.submute.net" <wells@hiro.submute.net>, "reynolda@sas.upenn.edu" <reynolda@sas.upenn.edu>, "idm@hyperreal.org" <idm@hyperreal.org> From: "wells@hiro.submute.net" <wells@hiro.submute.net> Subject: Re: Re: [idm] urb and integrity, yech.. Message-Id: <20000926110695.SM00780@m2w027> I looked at his web site. Original Message: ----------------- From: Josh Davison yoshi@enteract.com Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 09:55:10 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [idm] urb and integrity, yech.. On Tue, 26 Sep 2000, wells@hiro.submute.net wrote:

quoted 1 line Why is it that white college kids are always making fun of white

> Why is it that white college kids are always making fun of white

college kids? This is something I can never understand= ah, how do you know alex is white?

On Tue, 26 Sep 2000, Christophe McKeon wrote:

quoted 4 lines I guess Alex must be an albino or something then? Is he a "black" or

> I guess Alex must be an albino or something then? Is he a "black" or > "white" or "other" albino?!:> > Get my drift, (probably not) > C

I think "wigga" is the word you're looking for. ;-) (Before anyone jumps on me for the use of the word wigga I wanna say that I don't mean any offense, AT ALL. I'm full of love.) Alex, so you really like Squirrels Nuts Zippers ? You know they're about as jazz as Kid606 is punk. You should check out some Cab Calloway or Duke Ellington or something. Andrei

quoted 22 lines Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 11:06:10 -0400

> Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 11:06:10 -0400 > To: "yoshi@enteract.com" <yoshi@enteract.com>, "wells@hiro.submute.net" > <wells@hiro.submute.net>, "reynolda@sas.upenn.edu" > <reynolda@sas.upenn.edu>, "idm@hyperreal.org" <idm@hyperreal.org> > From: "wells@hiro.submute.net" <wells@hiro.submute.net> > Subject: Re: Re: [idm] urb and integrity, yech.. > Message-Id: <20000926110695.SM00780@m2w027> > > I looked at his web site. > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Josh Davison yoshi@enteract.com > Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 09:55:10 -0500 (CDT) > Subject: Re: [idm] urb and integrity, yech.. > > On Tue, 26 Sep 2000, wells@hiro.submute.net wrote: > > > Why is it that white college kids are always making fun of white > college kids? This is something I can never understand= > > ah, how do you know alex is white?

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Alex Reynolds <reynolda@sas.upenn.edu> wrote:

quoted 14 lines i, too, am familiar with noise/glitch sound (fripp/oval/xenakis/etc.)

>i, too, am familiar with noise/glitch sound (fripp/oval/xenakis/etc.) >and i can distinguish what sounds good to me with what is also called >"marketing bullshit". the music industry is being dishonest with >people, encouraging those not familiar with the music to put down >cash for it, to pay money to join in the fake-punk attitude, and i >don't think that's right. > >good music is not what some piece of trash of a corporate magazine >calls good music. > >some of you may really enjoy k*d606 and friends, and that's fair. i >suppose i'm being a bit heavy-handed in my criticism of their work. >but anyone with a lick of sense knows what's going on behind the >"scene", so to speak, with this ongoing promotional push.

So if an artist you *loved* achieved a modicum of commercial success via a substantial promo push, you'd be just as disgusted with the process? I doubt it. It's because you dislike Kid606's music that you make such bitter posts. Just a theory. Dave Segal Managing Editor/Alternative Press Reviews/BPM/Reissue Redux Secret Ions on WCSB Thursdays 9-11PM EST [www.wcsb.org] np: Maju- Maju-2 (Extreme) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

speaking of pop electronics www.skinny.com has a great feature on bogdan "RZYNSKI." iemailed this great and thorough "journalist already." he replied asking me not to get too stressed about it. bastard. a. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 8 lines Oh come on Rjyan ! Are you saying that people who tend to be reclusive

> Oh come on Rjyan ! Are you saying that people who tend to be reclusive > and introverted lack ambition and are underachievers ? > > God help IDM if extroverts like Kid606 are its spokespersons to the rest > of the world ! > (that isn't meant to sound so dramatic) > > I don't know, personally I don't give a shit about IDM's popularity.

I don't believe in the idea that "if it's popular, it has to suck." Not one bit. Yeah, a lot of popular music is contrived and boring. But what's to say that it HAS to be that way? It's called change. Committed, confident people effect it. And I'm not saying we have to change ALL the popular music. Do really think that it's impossible for even 1 good musician with integrity to "make it"? Middle-school mentality contrarianism has overwhelmed a lot of otherwise intelligent peoples' ideas about music, and it so does not have to be that way. Besides, we don't hold any other art form to this standard, so why are we so cynical this way about music? Think of all the painters, directors, and writers that are reasonably 'popular' that are also great and respectable artists. Do John Waters or David Lynch or Harmony Korine suck because a hell of a lot of people like their work? Let's just pretend for a minute that you guys are right and there aren't even any precedents in music, of popular artists who are also good. So what? Why should that stop anyone from trying to change this? Have some moxie, you weiners. -rk --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

After culling the lot of frivolous script, we get:

quoted 2 lines good music is not what some piece of trash of a corporate magazine

>>good music is not what some piece of trash of a corporate magazine >>calls good music.

quoted 3 lines So if an artist you *loved* achieved a modicum of commercial success

>So if an artist you *loved* achieved a modicum of commercial success >via a substantial promo push, you'd be just as disgusted >with the process? I doubt it.

Alex may have buried his point with "heavy-handed" prose about Kid606 and disliking his music, but he makes good about the promotional activities of the aforementioned and his label. Do articles which focus more on HIM (Kid606, not Doug Scharin) and less on his MUSIC actually contribute anything to my enjoyment of his music? To anyone else's? There is a place for music journalism, and it is firmly in the music camp - not the lifestyle section of my daily newspaper. There are many journalists that understand this and I think it shines through the very yeoman work they do. And then there are many journalists who are simply an extension of a marketing firm. Kid606's (mis?)use and mastery of this is apparent, just as RDJ's is legendary. One can enjoy the music while being disappointed about the way it is knowingly slighted by both the press and Mr. 606. I guess this is what most burns me. The music has become secondary, it would appear, to its very creator. What does any of this have to do with this list? I'm still awaiting an answer to that ... J "You should dream more, Mr. Wormold. Reality in our century is not something to be faced." - _Our Man in Havana_ Join The Party @www.cpusa.org ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Well said. I mean if you come to the people you get something from them. This something actually affects you directly and your music is not yours anymore... Unlikely that most of the current idm scene needs influence from outside. Hail to originality. Alien np. Animals on Wheels "Nuvol i cadira" ----- Original Message ----- From: Drusca <andrei@world.std.com> To: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 8:14 PM Subject: Re: [idm] urb and integrity, yech.. ) Oh come on Rjyan ! Are you saying that people who tend to be reclusive ) and introverted lack ambition and are underachievers ? ) ) God help IDM if extroverts like Kid606 are its spokespersons to the rest ) of the world ! ) (that isn't meant to sound so dramatic) ) ) I don't know, personally I don't give a shit about IDM's popularity. I ) don't think people who buy Third Eye Matchbox 182 records would help out ) the IDM community in any way besides financially. Call me arrogant and ) elitist, I don't care. I prefer things small and tightknit and where ) quality control is prevalent. I don't really believe in "the people" and ) making music for "the people" and all that. Maybe that's cuz I grew up ) under communism and I've seen what this "for the people" shite comes to in ) reality. Hope this doesn't sound like I don't have a lot of compassion for ) other people, cuz I certainly do, I just mean that I don't believe in the ) "masses". ) ) Andrei ) ) ) On Tue, 26 Sep 2000, Rjyan Kidwell wrote: ) ) > > Somebody e-mailed the other day asking why something like Proem isn't ) > > getting the coverage that Kid is. Well, it's pretty obvious to me. ) > > ) > > Could you see Proem opening for Fantomas? Could you see kids who were ) > > into punk and now looking for something to listen to getting into Proem? ) > > ) > > IDM artists make it a habit to be introverted and camera shy. I've ) > > never seen a picture of Proem in my life. ) > ) > fucking a, right on. ) > like it or not, there are electronic music artists with *ambition*. artists ) > who believe enough in this little scene to want to tell other people about ) > it, people who might not otherwise get the chance to hear it. ) > ) > i'll never get tired of saying this: fuck an underachiever hide-in-my-cave ) > aesthetic. ) > ) > i think the scene is MORE than ready for experimental electronic music ) > artists who talk. to other people. ) ) ) ) --------------------------------------------------------------------- ) To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org ) For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org ) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

"but what i'd really like to know is, who is 'the whole dsp/noise scene with kid606 as its poster child?'" hooray hooray fight for your team go team go ra ra ra gimmie a "T"! gimmie an "I"! ... wes-siiiiiide! (kidding- have a nice day) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

In a message dated 9/26/2000 10:42:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time, tofu@falco.kuci.uci.edu writes: << > fed on the pseudo-punk image of > the artists and not much more. only white college-age kids can make > hip-hop unlistenable and get pats on the back from pop culture rags. it > may be sound or noise, but it's not music any more than my aging > refrigerator condensor's decaying, chaotic whine at three in the > morning is music. >> i love the sound of the fridge at three in the morning. only matched by the dishwasher running its cycle, followed by the drying elements cooling down for an encore. never the same way twice. music to my ears. dE3 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 10 lines may be sound or noise, but it's not music any more than my aging

> > may be sound or noise, but it's not music any more than my aging > > refrigerator condensor's decaying, chaotic whine at three in the > > morning is music. >> > > >i love the sound of the fridge at three in the morning. only matched by the >dishwasher running its cycle, followed by the drying elements cooling down >for an encore. never the same way twice. music to my ears. > >dE3

nice subsonic!!!! --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I personally like the sound of my lover snoring over the air conditioner, one of our places has those old fashioned wall units, the sounds are discordant yet soothing. It's great, and I miss my dishwasher, wohosh,wohosh. Pierre Schaeffer lives! ----- Original Message ----- From: <Softerandthicker@aol.com> To: <tofu@falco.kuci.uci.edu>; <reynolda@sas.upenn.edu> Cc: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 7:00 PM Subject: Re: [idm] urb and integrity, yech..

quoted 12 lines In a message dated 9/26/2000 10:42:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

> In a message dated 9/26/2000 10:42:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > tofu@falco.kuci.uci.edu writes: > > << > fed on the pseudo-punk image of > > the artists and not much more. only white college-age kids can make > > hip-hop unlistenable and get pats on the back from pop culture rags. it > > may be sound or noise, but it's not music any more than my aging > > refrigerator condensor's decaying, chaotic whine at three in the > > morning is music. >> > > > i love the sound of the fridge at three in the morning. only matched by

the

quoted 5 lines dishwasher running its cycle, followed by the drying elements cooling down

> dishwasher running its cycle, followed by the drying elements cooling down > for an encore. never the same way twice. music to my ears. > > dE3 >

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quoted 6 lines good music is not what some piece of trash of a corporate magazine

> good music is not what some piece of trash of a corporate magazine > calls good music. > some of you may really enjoy k*d606 and friends, and that's fair. i > suppose i'm being a bit heavy-handed in my criticism of their work. > but anyone with a lick of sense knows what's going on behind the > "scene", so to speak, with this ongoing promotional push.

I wouldn't suppose that, that's what this list is about, but I would say you're being heavy handed about kid606 getting some press. He's not the first electronic artist to do so.What should he hide in a closet and refuse all interviews, or say "I just vant to be alone?" Listen to his recent stuff, he's not exactly playing to the mainsteam market, to make a huge understatement. He's making the music he wants to, right or wrong? John --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 17 lines at the risk of being blunt, the whole dsp/noise scene with kid606 as

> > > at the risk of being blunt, the whole dsp/noise scene with kid606 as > > its poster child is an overrated fad, fed on the pseudo-punk image of > > the artists and not much more. only white college-age kids can make > > hip-hop unlistenable and get pats on the back from pop culture rags. it > > may be sound or noise, but it's not music any more than my aging > > refrigerator condensor's decaying, chaotic whine at three in the > > morning is music. > > d00d, that's some limited ass thought on the nature of music. Let's see, is > the work of warhol or pollack art? just because it's not painted in the > classical sense doesn't make it any less valuble. It's art when someone says it > is, just as duchamp's urinal. The same thing occurs in music. Music is made when > a sound is heard by a person, whether just merely recorded or arranged or > whatever, it's the process of realizing the beauty in it and putting it out for > someone else that makes it music.... expand your definitions, g-rox. > cdin

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