IDM Mailing Archive

Would it be possible to summarise the Napster argument (where's a valley girl when you need one?) and stick it on the web somewhere. It keeps coming up, and it's always exactly the bloody same. Someone talks about napster, someone says that music should be free, someone mentions the artist's rights, someone slags off the music industry, someone from 'the industry' replies. Repeat ad nauseam. Alternatively, hyperreal could set up some device to detect the word Napster in the subject, and then send the mail back with the note 'we are sorry, but this has already been said approximately 257 times, but more eloquently.' Music: any word on the latest (8th) Tresor comp? John Peel played the Pacou track from it, and it were mighty. ttfn d. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

i've replied off list, because i really dont care to engage in the debate - its saturday, its sunny -this is a rare opportunity in england!!! the valley girl, courtney love did it a few weeks ago even admitting she dont know shit about napster, but her point of view at http://www.thesalon.com, although you may have to search for it as it was at least a month ago, but sure its still archived there... At 5:43 am -0400 29/7/00, DavidASim@aol.com wrote:

quoted 17 lines Would it be possible to summarise the Napster argument (where's a valley girl

>Would it be possible to summarise the Napster argument (where's a valley girl >when you need one?) and stick it on the web somewhere. It keeps coming up, >and it's always exactly the bloody same. Someone talks about napster, someone >says that music should be free, someone mentions the artist's rights, someone >slags off the music industry, someone from 'the industry' replies. Repeat ad >nauseam. >Alternatively, hyperreal could set up some device to detect the word Napster >in the subject, and then send the mail back with the note 'we are sorry, but >this has already been said approximately 257 times, but more eloquently.' >Music: any word on the latest (8th) Tresor comp? John Peel played the Pacou >track from it, and it were mighty. >ttfn >d. > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

"uneasy listening" solid steel: mon nite 12am-2am gmt http://www.bbc.co.uk/londonlive http://www.worldtimezone.com archives: http://www.ninjatune.net/solidsteel http://www.ninjatune.net zentertainment: wed nite 9pm - 1am gmt http://www.piratetv.net --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

been through it before, the manufactured cost of a record/CD is not the only cost to a record company. Yeah major labels suck and the dispursement of profit is ridicously, but that's not my fault and there's so much info out their these days that I can't feel sorry for anyone finding themselves in a bad deal. People regularly pay $100 for a pair of shoes with no problems, what do you think the real cost of those is. Boycott Nike for not giving their shoes away! Bloody mafia those shoe companies I tell ya. Jeff

quoted 15 lines However not all artist want to, and don't lump the entire music

>>However not all artist want to, and don't lump the entire music >>industry under one big shitty umbrella. > >Last time I checked the entire music industry is still charging a big bundle >of Lizzys for a product that doesn't cost a big bundle of Benjamins to make. >Is there a label not charging 4-5 quid a 12" and 13-15 quid a cd? The fact >that some IDM artists aren't living the vida loca with their record deals is >unfortunate, but if their "work" isn't paying them enough they should >supplement it. This whole thing is a long time coming knee jerk to an >industry that is taking the piss. > >I know this argument is going in circles everytime it comes up. I guess >we'll see in 5-10 years which model works best for artist and customer (the >only vital parts in the process). >__________

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yeah, and you wouldnt just loan some body your favourite pair of nikes, addidas, vans, whatevers when they came up & asked you would you? trainers? - what about jeans? why are levis charging $100 for jeans they made 50 years ago? (well someone from japan could probably answer that one...) At 6:47 pm +0100 31/7/00, Jeff Waye/Ninja Tune wrote:

quoted 32 lines been through it before, the manufactured cost of a record/CD is not the

>been through it before, the manufactured cost of a record/CD is not the >only cost to a record company. Yeah major labels suck and the >dispursement of profit is ridicously, but that's not my fault and there's >so much info out their these days that I can't feel sorry for anyone >finding themselves in a bad deal. People regularly pay $100 for a pair of >shoes with no problems, what do you think the real cost of those is. >Boycott Nike for not giving their shoes away! Bloody mafia those shoe >companies I tell ya. > >Jeff > > > > >>However not all artist want to, and don't lump the entire music > >>industry under one big shitty umbrella. > > > >Last time I checked the entire music industry is still charging a big bundle > >of Lizzys for a product that doesn't cost a big bundle of Benjamins to make. > >Is there a label not charging 4-5 quid a 12" and 13-15 quid a cd? The fact > >that some IDM artists aren't living the vida loca with their record deals is > >unfortunate, but if their "work" isn't paying them enough they should > >supplement it. This whole thing is a long time coming knee jerk to an > >industry that is taking the piss. > > > >I know this argument is going in circles everytime it comes up. I guess > >we'll see in 5-10 years which model works best for artist and customer (the > >only vital parts in the process). > >__________ > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

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actually you should boycott nike for paying korean 6 year olds to work 12 hours a day for pennies in sweat shops so that us consumers can have the latest fashions on our feet...but this is another story... Record companies do take a nice chunk of cash from artists but they also put some out. they basically function like a bank/marketing firm. they loan a band money (advance against future sales) to make a record and tour and then that gets paid back to them as the band sells records...hopefully. steve ----------

quoted 2 lines From: Wendy K <wendy@ninjatune.net>

>From: Wendy K <wendy@ninjatune.net> >To: Jeff Waye/Ninja Tune <jeff@ninjatune.net>, "Scott boy"

<mckeating23@hotmail.com>, <idm@hyperreal.org>

quoted 4 lines Cc: idm@hyperreal.org

>Cc: idm@hyperreal.org >Subject: Re: [idm] Some gnutty words on napster >Date: Mon, Jul 31, 2000, 12:02 PM >

quoted 24 lines yeah, and you wouldnt just loan some body your favourite pair of

> yeah, and you wouldnt just loan some body your favourite pair of > nikes, addidas, vans, whatevers when they came up & asked you > would you? trainers? - what about jeans? why are levis charging > $100 for jeans they made 50 years ago? (well someone from japan > could probably answer that one...) > > At 6:47 pm +0100 31/7/00, Jeff Waye/Ninja Tune wrote: >>been through it before, the manufactured cost of a record/CD is not the >>only cost to a record company. Yeah major labels suck and the >>dispursement of profit is ridicously, but that's not my fault and there's >>so much info out their these days that I can't feel sorry for anyone >>finding themselves in a bad deal. People regularly pay $100 for a pair of >>shoes with no problems, what do you think the real cost of those is. >>Boycott Nike for not giving their shoes away! Bloody mafia those shoe >>companies I tell ya. >> >>Jeff >> >> >> >> >>However not all artist want to, and don't lump the entire music >> >>industry under one big shitty umbrella. >> > >> >Last time I checked the entire music industry is still charging a big

bundle

quoted 1 line of Lizzys for a product that doesn't cost a big bundle of Benjamins to

>> >of Lizzys for a product that doesn't cost a big bundle of Benjamins to

make.

quoted 2 lines Is there a label not charging 4-5 quid a 12" and 13-15 quid a cd? The fact

>> >Is there a label not charging 4-5 quid a 12" and 13-15 quid a cd? The fact >> >that some IDM artists aren't living the vida loca with their record deals

is

quoted 19 lines unfortunate, but if their "work" isn't paying them enough they should

>> >unfortunate, but if their "work" isn't paying them enough they should >> >supplement it. This whole thing is a long time coming knee jerk to an >> >industry that is taking the piss. >> > >> >I know this argument is going in circles everytime it comes up. I guess >> >we'll see in 5-10 years which model works best for artist and customer (the >> >only vital parts in the process). >> >__________ >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >>For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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Hmm... Shoes and other physical products are significantly different from ideas and information. The question now is: which is music? In the mid-20th-century, a bunch of people turned music into a physical product and started the whole ball rolling to where we are now. But before that, and especially pre-20th century, music and ideas were a *heckuva* lot more free-flowing. The further back in time you go, the more free-flowing they were, AFAIK. MP3s, or more generally, computers, change music back into information. Digitalization of music is eroding the image of music as a physical thing that you own. I, for one, think I am in favor of it. Check out this: http://danny.oz.au/free-software/advocacy/against_IP.html It was posted to this list a few days ago. Perhaps not perfect, but an interesting read nonetheless. Made me think. -adam On 1 Aug 2000 11:19:12 -0000, idm-digest-help@hyperreal.org wrote:

quoted 20 lines Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 21:02:58 +0100

>Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 21:02:58 +0100 >From: Wendy K <wendy@ninjatune.net> > >yeah, and you wouldnt just loan some body your favourite pair of >nikes, addidas, vans, whatevers when they came up & asked you >would you? trainers? - what about jeans? why are levis charging >$100 for jeans they made 50 years ago? (well someone from japan >could probably answer that one...) > >At 6:47 pm +0100 31/7/00, Jeff Waye/Ninja Tune wrote: >>been through it before, the manufactured cost of a record/CD is not the >>only cost to a record company. Yeah major labels suck and the >>dispursement of profit is ridicously, but that's not my fault and there's >>so much info out their these days that I can't feel sorry for anyone >>finding themselves in a bad deal. People regularly pay $100 for a pair of >>shoes with no problems, what do you think the real cost of those is. >>Boycott Nike for not giving their shoes away! Bloody mafia those shoe >>companies I tell ya. >> >>Jeff

-- Adam Piontek [http://www.tcinternet.net/users/damek/] ICQ: 3456339 [damek@earthling.net] ... Coito ergo sum. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org