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Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground

35 messages · 21 participants · spans 2 days · search this subject
◇ merged from 2 subjects: (idm) keep music underground · (idm) the cost of music
1996-07-15 11:21Martin Ayrton (idm) Keep Music Underground
├─ 1996-07-15 13:02globalwm@gate.net Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
├─ 1996-07-15 15:05Dan Smith Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
└─ 1996-07-15 19:20Julius anthony Martinez Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
└─ 1996-07-15 20:04Mark Kolmar Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
1996-07-15 12:56Robert C. Galbraith Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
1996-07-15 17:10AIMEE C MERRITT Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
1996-07-15 17:52AIMEE C MERRITT Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
1996-07-15 19:27AIMEE C MERRITT Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
1996-07-15 22:15Lazlo Nibble Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
1996-07-15 22:30Danny Wolfers Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
└─ 1996-07-15 22:00Jon Drukman Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
└─ 1996-07-16 00:08Guy Elden, Jr. Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
└─ 1996-07-17 16:13Jon Drukman Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
1996-07-16 02:33Alex Ageyev Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
1996-07-16 03:06Danny Wolfers Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
1996-07-16 03:06Danny Wolfers Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
└─ 1996-07-16 18:50Jon Drukman Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
├─ 1996-07-16 19:46mallen (idm) the cost of music
└─ 1996-07-16 21:14C. Desmarias Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
├─ 1996-07-16 22:05Eric Frans Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
└─ 1996-07-17 23:17Mark Kolmar Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
1996-07-16 06:36Matthew D. Smith Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
1996-07-16 08:04Anika Agebjoern Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
1996-07-16 10:12Martin Ayrton (idm) Keep Music Underground
1996-07-16 14:56Aimee C. Merritt Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
1996-07-16 19:09Danny Wolfers Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
└─ 1996-07-16 17:52C. Desmarias Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
└─ 1996-07-16 17:57Steven T Lammers Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
└─ 1996-07-16 20:53Kent Williams Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
1996-07-16 20:25Robert C. Galbraith Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
└─ 1996-07-16 20:52Michael Dvorkin Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
1996-07-17 00:05Danny Wolfers Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
1996-07-17 11:00Maarten D. Schermer Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
1996-07-17 20:53Aimee C. Merritt Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
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1996-07-15 11:21Martin Ayrton>I only hope this AMP show doesn't become 120 mins. then every little >computer whiz kid w
From:
Martin Ayrton
To:
Date:
Mon, 15 Jul 1996 12:21:44 +0100
Subject:
(idm) Keep Music Underground
permalink · <1.5.4.32.19960715112144.0084f4d4@mail.u-net.com>
quoted 3 lines I only hope this AMP show doesn't become 120 mins. then every little>I only hope this AMP show doesn't become 120 mins. then every little >computer whiz kid will have analogue gear and the market will be saturated >with useless talent.
quoted 1 line KEEP MUSIC UNDERGROUND!!!>KEEP MUSIC UNDERGROUND!!!
I'm sorry but this is a completely shit attitude. Nice one Eric, I too am fed up with the "it's OUR music, and THEY can't have it" mentality. Maybe this guy would be happy if his favourite artists were chained up at the bottom of his garden producing music solely for his personal use. Artists would like to make a living you know, if you didn't realise it costs rather a lot of cash to set up a decent studio and create music. For "KEEP MUSIC UNDERGROUND" read "keep musicians on the bread line" .... M:-|
1996-07-15 13:02globalwm@gate.netOn Mon, 15 Jul 1996, Martin Ayrton wrote: > >KEEP MUSIC UNDERGROUND!!! Funny, I remember a
From:
globalwm@gate.net
To:
Martin Ayrton
Cc:
,
Date:
Mon, 15 Jul 1996 09:02:26 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
Reply to:
(idm) Keep Music Underground
permalink · <Pine.A32.3.93.960715090032.65182A-100000@seminole.gate.net>
On Mon, 15 Jul 1996, Martin Ayrton wrote:
quoted 1 line KEEP MUSIC UNDERGROUND!!!> >KEEP MUSIC UNDERGROUND!!!
Funny, I remember a Fax t-shirt that said just such..... Had a nice drawing of a man digging a hole and burying vinyl records in it. Nice pic Charlie! - Anthony
1996-07-15 15:05Dan SmithOn Mon, 15 Jul 1996, Martin Ayrton wrote: > >I only hope this AMP show doesn't become 120
From:
Dan Smith
To:
idm
Date:
Mon, 15 Jul 1996 10:05:57 -0500 (CDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
Reply to:
(idm) Keep Music Underground
permalink · <Pine.SGI.3.93.960715095338.18515C-100000@tiger.coe.missouri.edu>
On Mon, 15 Jul 1996, Martin Ayrton wrote:
quoted 15 lines I only hope this AMP show doesn't become 120 mins. then every little> >I only hope this AMP show doesn't become 120 mins. then every little > >computer whiz kid will have analogue gear and the market will be saturated > >with useless talent. > > >KEEP MUSIC UNDERGROUND!!! > > I'm sorry but this is a completely shit attitude. > > Nice one Eric, I too am fed up with the "it's OUR music, and THEY can't > have it" mentality. Maybe this guy would be happy if his favourite > artists were chained up at the bottom of his garden producing music > solely for his personal use. > > Artists would like to make a living you know, if you didn't realise it > costs rather a lot of cash to set up a decent studio and create music.
But wouldnt the reason for art be corrupted by greed? Bottom line is that money doesnt make the artist, it only helps the artist get new toys, and mass exposure does create the artist ego, the artist multinational conglomorant, and can eventually "mello" the artist. Who was it that stated that an artist could never create behind golden gates... the big T maybe...It is fact that mass exposure and financial payoffs can sour the intensity of an artists/musicians work. Mass exposure also creates fans and interest in the music genre, and what's so wrong about that? Its a catch 22. On a side note, that PAC-MAN "Powerpill" track on the v/a, done by Richard James, well... I think it sucks. Just because its a Richard James track doesnt make it worth the feather nearest to any bird's ass. Thats just my taste. Daniel Smith robi@tiger.coe.missouri.edu http://tiger.coe.missouri.edu/~robi
1996-07-15 19:20Julius anthony MartinezOn Mon, 15 Jul 1996, Martin Ayrton wrote: > For "KEEP MUSIC UNDERGROUND" read "keep musici
From:
Julius anthony Martinez
To:
Martin Ayrton
Cc:
Date:
Mon, 15 Jul 1996 12:20:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
Reply to:
(idm) Keep Music Underground
permalink · <Pine.SOL.3.91.960715121802.18215A-100000@mail>
On Mon, 15 Jul 1996, Martin Ayrton wrote:
quoted 2 lines For "KEEP MUSIC UNDERGROUND" read "keep musicians on the bread line" .> For "KEEP MUSIC UNDERGROUND" read "keep musicians on the bread line" .... >
Maybe, but when artists achieve commercial success their music very often starts resembling fecal matter. T.
1996-07-15 20:04Mark Kolmar> > For "KEEP MUSIC UNDERGROUND" read "keep musicians on the bread line" .... > Maybe, but
From:
Mark Kolmar
To:
Julius anthony Martinez
Cc:
Martin Ayrton ,
Date:
Mon, 15 Jul 1996 15:04:59 -0500 (CDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
Reply to:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
permalink · <Pine.PTX.3.93.960715145620.4289D-100000@ccs1.ccs.nslsilus.org>
quoted 1 line For "KEEP MUSIC UNDERGROUND" read "keep musicians on the bread line" .> > For "KEEP MUSIC UNDERGROUND" read "keep musicians on the bread line" ....
quoted 2 lines Maybe, but when artists achieve commercial success their music very> Maybe, but when artists achieve commercial success their music very > often starts resembling fecal matter.
2 possibilities here: a) Artist does not develop, output becomes stale b) Artist tries to figure out what it is that caught the public's ear, makes adjustments and/or becomes self-conscious about that aspect, and spoils the original appeal. On the other hand, we can name plenty of artists who went to major labels without making artistic compromises. You can say what you want about _I Care..._ or _SAWII_ by Aphex Twin (I like the stuff on Rephlex and R&S much more), but I certainly don't hear any concession to the marketplace. Orbital, as an example, always struck me as being on the pop tip anyway. --Mark
1996-07-15 12:56Robert C. GalbraithYou wrote: > >>I only hope this AMP show doesn't become 120 mins. then every little >>comp
From:
Robert C. Galbraith
To:
Martin Ayrton
Cc:
Date:
Mon, 15 Jul 1996 05:56:11 -0700
Subject:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
permalink · <199607151256.FAA00908@dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com>
You wrote:
quoted 3 lines I only hope this AMP show doesn't become 120 mins. then every little> >>I only hope this AMP show doesn't become 120 mins. then every little >>computer whiz kid will have analogue gear and the market will be
saturated
quoted 1 line with useless talent.>>with useless talent.
Isn't this already the case ??? What is Amp anyway?? And wehen is it on ?? ROB:)!!!
1996-07-15 17:10AIMEE C MERRITTI hate to involve myself in this debate because people will always disagree on such things
From:
AIMEE C MERRITT
To:
Julius anthony Martinez
Cc:
, Martin Ayrton
Date:
Mon, 15 Jul 1996 13:10:52 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
permalink · <SIMEON.9607151352.A@dyn-sel0-39.library.ucla.edu>
I hate to involve myself in this debate because people will always disagree on such things BUT it seems to me that, if there is one musical genre in which the artists would prefer to be well understood and appreciated by a few rather than achieve great success and money through mainstream success, electronic (and especially "intelligent dance") music is it. How was that for a run on sentence? On Mon, 15 Jul 1996 12:20:49 -0700 (PDT) Julius anthony Martinez <martinez@mail.sdsu.edu> wrote:
quoted 11 lines On Mon, 15 Jul 1996, Martin Ayrton wrote:> > > On Mon, 15 Jul 1996, Martin Ayrton wrote: > > > For "KEEP MUSIC UNDERGROUND" read "keep musicians on the bread line" .... > > > > Maybe, but when artists achieve commercial success their music very > often starts resembling fecal matter. > > T.
1996-07-15 17:52AIMEE C MERRITTWhile I have always thought that Orbital are perhaps the most accessible of the music I li
From:
AIMEE C MERRITT
To:
Mark Kolmar
Cc:
Martin Ayrton , , Julius anthony Martinez
Date:
Mon, 15 Jul 1996 13:52:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
permalink · <SIMEON.9607151321.B@dyn-sel0-39.library.ucla.edu>
While I have always thought that Orbital are perhaps the most accessible of the music I listen to, I don't know if I'd ever call them pop. Let's reserve that term for Moby. But that's neither here nor there. Back to what an earlier person said, I think artists can remain somewhat underground and still do well financially. Take Orbital, for example. The general public in the US has no clue who or what they are yet Orbital was listed last month in Select as the 14th highest grossing band in the UK so they are obviously doing quite well. I'll have to check on the exact per year figures but it was in the millions of pounds. While I realize that Orbital is hardly what anyone would consider underground, especially in the UK, they are certainly not pandering to the masses at least not in my eyes. Now what was the point I was trying to make here? I suppose I am trying to say that, while music like this should obviously be accessible to all that seek it out, it shouldn't be packaged for mass consumption like a vapid Mariah Carey cd. It deserves much more than that. On Mon, 15 Jul 1996 15:04:59 -0500 (CDT) Mark Kolmar <mkolmar@ccs.nslsilus.org> wrote:
quoted 1 line For "KEEP MUSIC UNDERGROUND"> > > For "KEEP MUSIC UNDERGROUND"
read "keep musicians on the bread line" ....
quoted 20 lines Maybe, but when artists achieve commercial success their music very> > > Maybe, but when artists achieve commercial success their music very > > often starts resembling fecal matter. > > 2 possibilities here: > > a) Artist does not develop, output becomes stale > > b) Artist tries to figure out what it is that caught the public's ear, > makes adjustments and/or becomes self-conscious about that aspect, and > spoils the original appeal. > > On the other hand, we can name plenty of artists who went to major labels > without making artistic compromises. You can say what you want about _I > Care..._ or _SAWII_ by Aphex Twin (I like the stuff on Rephlex and R&S > much more), but I certainly don't hear any concession to the marketplace. > Orbital, as an example, always struck me as being on the pop tip anyway. > > --Mark >
1996-07-15 19:27AIMEE C MERRITTCorrect me if I'm wrong (and I know someone will) but didn't Autechre make their early stu
From:
AIMEE C MERRITT
To:
Jon Drukman
Cc:
Date:
Mon, 15 Jul 1996 15:27:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
permalink · <SIMEON.9607151536.D@dyn-sel0-39.library.ucla.edu>
Correct me if I'm wrong (and I know someone will) but didn't Autechre make their early stuff with only a drum machine and a sampler? On Mon, 15 Jul 1996 15:00:40 -0700 Jon Drukman <jsd@cyborganic.com> wrote:
quoted 35 lines At 10:30 PM +0200 7/15/96, Danny Wolfers wrote:> At 10:30 PM +0200 7/15/96, Danny Wolfers wrote: > >>Artists would like to make a living you know > >> if you didn't realise it > >>costs rather a lot of cash to set up a decent studio and create music. > > > >Bollocks. Do we all want to sound superclean & plastic with hi-crisp ultra > >Hi fi 16 bits/32DA EMU64 samplers & virtual Nordiclead Digital waveform > >simulators ? > > > >It doesn't cost that much to set up a decent studio to make some good > >music. > > i'd say off the top of my head that you can't get into IDM seriously > without at least 2 or 3 thousand bucks worth of gear. i doubt that many > people in their 20's have that much sitting around. > > on my first record, i made about $1100. and that was a pretty good seller > (over 2000 copies). > > of course, i've actually sunk something closer to $10000 into my studio. > > i think the numbers speak for themselves. > > >Records like Muziq's Tango'n'Vectif & Aphex'SAW 85-92 certainly weren't made > >on expensive state-of-the-art equip! > > and they sound like it. (not in a good way, to my snobby ears.) > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jon Drukman jsd@cyborganic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >
1996-07-15 22:15Lazlo Nibble> It is fact that mass exposure and financial payoffs can sour the > intensity of an artis
From:
Lazlo Nibble
To:
Intelligent Dance Music
Date:
Mon, 15 Jul 1996 16:15:11 -0600 (MDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
permalink · <199607152215.QAA24755@slug.swcp.com>
quoted 2 lines It is fact that mass exposure and financial payoffs can sour the> It is fact that mass exposure and financial payoffs can sour the > intensity of an artists/musicians work.
So can obscurity and destitution. -- ::: Lazlo (lazlo@swcp.com; http://www.swcp.com/lazlo)
1996-07-15 22:30Danny Wolfers>Artists would like to make a living you know > if you didn't realise it >costs rather a l
From:
Danny Wolfers
To:
Martin Ayrton
Cc:
Date:
Mon, 15 Jul 1996 22:30:44 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
permalink · <199607152030.WAA24873@magigimmix.xs4all.nl>
quoted 3 lines Artists would like to make a living you know>Artists would like to make a living you know > if you didn't realise it >costs rather a lot of cash to set up a decent studio and create music.
Bollocks. Do we all want to sound superclean & plastic with hi-crisp ultra Hi fi 16 bits/32DA EMU64 samplers & virtual Nordiclead Digital waveform simulators ? It doesn't cost that much to set up a decent studio to make some good music. Records like Muziq's Tango'n'Vectif & Aphex'SAW 85-92 certainly weren't made on expensive state-of-the-art equip! Bye. Danwolfe@xs4all.nl http://www.xs4all.nl/~danwolfe
1996-07-15 22:00Jon DrukmanAt 10:30 PM +0200 7/15/96, Danny Wolfers wrote: >>Artists would like to make a living you
From:
Jon Drukman
To:
Date:
Mon, 15 Jul 1996 15:00:40 -0700
Subject:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
Reply to:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
permalink · <v03007801ae106e98c7b3@[206.79.132.104]>
At 10:30 PM +0200 7/15/96, Danny Wolfers wrote:
quoted 10 lines Artists would like to make a living you know>>Artists would like to make a living you know >> if you didn't realise it >>costs rather a lot of cash to set up a decent studio and create music. > >Bollocks. Do we all want to sound superclean & plastic with hi-crisp ultra >Hi fi 16 bits/32DA EMU64 samplers & virtual Nordiclead Digital waveform >simulators ? > >It doesn't cost that much to set up a decent studio to make some good >music.
i'd say off the top of my head that you can't get into IDM seriously without at least 2 or 3 thousand bucks worth of gear. i doubt that many people in their 20's have that much sitting around. on my first record, i made about $1100. and that was a pretty good seller (over 2000 copies). of course, i've actually sunk something closer to $10000 into my studio. i think the numbers speak for themselves.
quoted 2 lines Records like Muziq's Tango'n'Vectif & Aphex'SAW 85-92 certainly we>Records like Muziq's Tango'n'Vectif & Aphex'SAW 85-92 certainly weren't made >on expensive state-of-the-art equip!
and they sound like it. (not in a good way, to my snobby ears.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Drukman jsd@cyborganic.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------
1996-07-16 00:08Guy Elden, Jr.> i think the numbers speak for themselves. > My slant on things for me is to keep it a ho
From:
Guy Elden, Jr.
To:
Date:
Mon, 15 Jul 1996 20:08:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
Reply to:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
permalink · <199607160008.UAA05426@felix.cc.gatech.edu>
quoted 2 lines i think the numbers speak for themselves.> i think the numbers speak for themselves. >
My slant on things for me is to keep it a hobby for now. I think if you try to take things too seriously, you can't be as creative. Making the most of what you have, pushing gear to its limits and beyond, can all help make a great sound. But keeping yourself open to whatever ideas you come up with, experimenting with those ideas, and molding your sound into what you want, that's what it's all about. For me anyway. /philosophical mode off transmitting to my brain now: Out There Somewhere? -- guyjr@cc.gatech.edu | I.D.M.- That stage in sleeping when your feet are a.k.a., Guy Elden Jr. | moving faster than your eyes.
1996-07-17 16:13Jon DrukmanGuy Elden, Jr. wrote: >I think if you >try to take things too seriously, you can't be as c
From:
Jon Drukman
To:
Date:
Wed, 17 Jul 1996 09:13:25 -0700
Subject:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
Reply to:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
permalink · <v03007800ae12bf92f514@[206.79.132.104]>
Guy Elden, Jr. wrote:
quoted 2 lines I think if you>I think if you >try to take things too seriously, you can't be as creative.
i think that is a disrespectful comment, and a slap in the face to artists that really throw themselves into their work. you should see the dedication that some artists have. freaky chakra & single cell orchestra (being the two guys i know the best) are NUTS... the amount of attention they can bring to bear on a single detail is incredible. i have been known to get very obsessive about one particular drum sound. to the point where it drives my wife nuts. "didn't you mix that already? god i'm sick of that track!" "i have to keep doing it until it's right!" Maarten D. Schermer wrote:
quoted 6 lines And often the fact that they were produced in bedrooms>And often the fact that they were produced in bedrooms >on cheap equipment, mastered on cassettes, etc. has given them that raw, >noisy edge that makes them (even more) interesting. It's like with brightly >lit rooms - you can see everything clearly, but when you turn off the light >and replace it with a candle, the wavering light makes you guess at the >things you can't really see beyond the depth of the flickering shadows.
I disagree, again. If you are really interested in your sonic palette you can't be happy with ONLY flickering shadows. If there's not even one brightly lit moment all you have is a pile of mud. Personally, I like the fact that I have the OPTION of making perfect 16/44/stereo digital mixes, or crudding everything up with distortion and low sample rates. Contrast is important, and if you stick with cheap gear and cassettes for mastering you won't have the option of getting a clean sound when you want it.
quoted 2 lines Are we listening to music or are we actually admiring how perfectly,>Are we listening to music or are we actually admiring how perfectly, >digitally, totally silent the pauses inbetween are?
i have no trouble doing both, actually. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Drukman jsd@cyborganic.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------
1996-07-16 02:33Alex AgeyevThis discussion has been here a way too much time, and i think a lot of people already for
From:
Alex Ageyev
To:
idm
Date:
15 Jul 96 22:33:39 EDT
Subject:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
permalink · <960716023338_71543.456_EHL268-1@CompuServe.COM>
This discussion has been here a way too much time, and i think a lot of people already forgot why it's started, as i remember it, it is because of the TV show about IDM, and trying to save the original "sound" of IDM from becoming mainstream, well that is the most stupid thing in this whole discussion, some people really think that FSOl and Autechre and the rest of the them, will create special cheesy mainstream tracks for this, they use what has already been made, their music will not become mainstream, it will FORM it. And i would be very happy to see a lot of people, who will like it (I hope it will happen), so far IDM has existed as an underground self-developing genre in the US, (at least that';s my impression after 2 years spent in NYC), it doesnt have any analogues , i am not afraid that B12 will start using cheesy vocals, because that would increase their sales. IDM on American TV is still an empty niche, that needs to be filled, and so far from the names i ve seen in the line up for this programm, there wont be any "bad-quality" music. So as for myself, i am eager to see that show on TV! -Alex Ageyev Ptuch Magazine
1996-07-16 03:06Danny Wolfers>At 10:30 PM +0200 7/15/96, Danny Wolfers wrote: >>>Artists would like to make a living yo
From:
Danny Wolfers
To:
Jon Drukman
Cc:
Date:
Tue, 16 Jul 1996 03:06:23 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
permalink · <199607160106.DAA01288@magigimmix.xs4all.nl>
quoted 13 lines At 10:30 PM +0200 7/15/96, Danny Wolfers wrote:>At 10:30 PM +0200 7/15/96, Danny Wolfers wrote: >>>Artists would like to make a living you know >>> if you didn't realise it >>>costs rather a lot of cash to set up a decent studio and create music. >>Bollocks. Do we all want to sound superclean & plastic with hi-crisp ultra >>Hi fi 16 bits/32DA EMU64 samplers & virtual Nordiclead Digital waveform >>simulators ? >> >>It doesn't cost that much to set up a decent studio to make some good >>music. > >i'd say off the top of my head that you can't get into IDM seriously >without at least 2 or 3 thousand bucks worth of gear. i doubt that many
I disagree. Why can't someone with, lets say, an old drummachine, 1 cheap synthesizer, some guitar pedals and an 8 channel DJ mixer, all together worth perhaps $400, make IDM seriously?! In the end, the person controlling those machines will decide if its serious IDM or not. I mean when you listen to music and you find it good and then you hear it is made using only an internal Commodore 64 soundchip, do you say "well...I can't listen to this anymore beacause with such equip I will not take this seriously?"
quoted 3 lines Records like Muziq's Tango'n'Vectif & Aphex'SAW 85-92 certainly we>>Records like Muziq's Tango'n'Vectif & Aphex'SAW 85-92 certainly weren't made >>on expensive state-of-the-art equip! >and they sound like it. (not in a good way, to my snobby ears.)
Waaah! The rawness, that beautifull lo-fi distorted noise, it just sounds incredibly warm & real. Would those squelching hihats on SAW 85-92 sound the same if they were mixed on a 48 channel digital computer controlled mixer..? Too much fidelity ruins a lot... probably not. Bye. danwolfe@xs4all.nl back to lofi ethics: http://www.xs4all.nl/~danwolfe --- ... - "Hedphelym"..
1996-07-16 03:06Danny Wolfers>Correct me if I'm wrong (and I know someone will) but didn't Autechre >make their early s
From:
Danny Wolfers
To:
AIMEE C MERRITT
Cc:
Date:
Tue, 16 Jul 1996 03:06:55 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
permalink · <199607160106.DAA01349@magigimmix.xs4all.nl>
quoted 2 lines Correct me if I'm wrong (and I know someone will) but didn't Autechre>Correct me if I'm wrong (and I know someone will) but didn't Autechre >make their early stuff with only a drum machine and a sampler?
The very early stuff [also some on Incunabula] was made with an R8 drummachine, a Yamaha DX100 synth, Juno 106 synth, 202 box & TR606 beatbox + 2 Casio toy samplers.(SK-1 or 5). All very cheap. [at that time]. Later they added their EPS16+ sampler. (Which they used to the fullest on Amber) Bye. Danwolfe@xs4all.nl http://www.xs4all.nl/~danwolfe
1996-07-16 18:50Jon Drukman>>Correct me if I'm wrong (and I know someone will) but didn't Autechre >>make their early
From:
Jon Drukman
To:
Intensely Dull Music
Date:
Tue, 16 Jul 1996 11:50:25 -0700
Subject:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
Reply to:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
permalink · <v0300780cae1190d6f94c@[206.79.132.104]>
quoted 6 lines Correct me if I'm wrong (and I know someone will) but didn't Autechre>>Correct me if I'm wrong (and I know someone will) but didn't Autechre >>make their early stuff with only a drum machine and a sampler? > >The very early stuff [also some on Incunabula] was made with an R8 >drummachine, a Yamaha DX100 synth, Juno 106 synth, 202 box & TR606 beatbox + >2 Casio toy samplers.(SK-1 or 5). All very cheap. [at that time].
Juno 106: $200 MC202: $250 (when it was cheap, now they're up in the $700 range) TR606: $100 (when it was cheap) R8: $200 (deal of the century) DX100: $150 those are some very optimistic prices and i'm not even counting the casio samplers. assume a $100 mixer to tie it all together. that's already over $1000 and we're not even counting the wires, blank tapes and some sort of tape machine to record it all. i'll be generous and assume they didn't even OWN a DAT and instead rented one from a store when they needed it. hidden costs may include: amp, speakers, effects, compressor... i bought all of those pieces cheap and it still cost about $1000. even furniture can cost you. i paid $600 for a super deluxe desk (omnirax prostation) with built in rack spaces, stands for the speakers, a slide out tray for my computer keyboard... and i got a deal, the piece usually sells for $800. being serious about music costs serious money, don't let anybody kid you.
quoted 2 lines Later they added their EPS16+ sampler. (Which they used to the fullest on>Later they added their EPS16+ sampler. (Which they used to the fullest on >Amber)
$800. plus you'd probably want a SCSI hard disk to use with it. jon's fun music pricing fact: my sampler cost more than my computer, and i still need to buy more RAM for the sampler... ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Drukman jsd@cyborganic.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------
1996-07-16 19:46mallenOn Tue, 16 Jul 1996, Jon Drukman wrote: > even furniture can cost you. i paid $600 for a s
From:
mallen
To:
Intensely Dull Music
Date:
Tue, 16 Jul 1996 12:46:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:
(idm) the cost of music
Reply to:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
permalink · <Pine.LNX.3.94.960716123721.10120B-100000@zipnet.com>
On Tue, 16 Jul 1996, Jon Drukman wrote:
quoted 4 lines even furniture can cost you. i paid $600 for a super deluxe desk (omnirax> even furniture can cost you. i paid $600 for a super deluxe desk (omnirax > prostation) with built in rack spaces, stands for the speakers, a slide out > tray for my computer keyboard... and i got a deal, the piece usually sells > for $800.
why buy when you can build? a rack system is rather easily hacked together with modular metal shelving (rapistan is one of the companies that come to mind when i think of it) ... when or if you dont have the money for something there is always a way around it if you really really want to do it ... right now everything im doing music wise is either on hacked together or borrowed equipment... you would be amazed at the sounds you can get with a fourtrack recorder and shareware ... it also forces one to be very creative .. if you have a sound in your head how do you get it out without 10K worth of equipment? well .. you improvise and what you do get out might not be what you want ... but often it can open new doors on how to create and what to create .. so when the day comes that the basement of my house is a recording studio ill have that many more ways to assualt the sounds in my head ... annwn@zipnet.com | image | sound | movement | ||||||||||||||||||||||||| you can stop us by simply saying stop ||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||||||||||| but keep in mind if you say stop ||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||||||||||| its all over its all over ||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||||||||||| thats where it stops ||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||||||||||| http://www.zipnet.com/annwn/ |||||||||||
1996-07-16 21:14C. DesmariasOn Tue, 16 Jul 1996, Jon Drukman wrote: > those are some very optimistic prices and i'm no
From:
C. Desmarias
To:
Date:
Tue, 16 Jul 1996 14:14:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
Reply to:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
permalink · <Pine.OSF.3.92a.960716141001.1780A-100000@saul7.u.washington.edu>
On Tue, 16 Jul 1996, Jon Drukman wrote:
quoted 5 lines those are some very optimistic prices and i'm not even counting the casio> those are some very optimistic prices and i'm not even counting the casio > samplers. assume a $100 mixer to tie it all together. that's already over > $1000 and we're not even counting the wires, blank tapes and some sort of > tape machine to record it all. i'll be generous and assume they didn't > even OWN a DAT and instead rented one from a store when they needed it.
A piece of advice: for a lo-cost alternative to owning a DAT, use your hi-fi 4-head VCR instead.. provides a low-noise, hi-quality recording method - and a pack of 6 hour tapes costs around $10 on sale. Cid.
1996-07-16 22:05Eric FransOn Tue, 16 Jul 1996, C. Desmarias wrote: } A piece of advice: for a lo-cost alternative to
From:
Eric Frans
To:
C. Desmarias
Cc:
Date:
Tue, 16 Jul 1996 15:05:52 -0700 (MST)
Subject:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
Reply to:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
permalink · <Pine.ULT.3.94.960716150117.11463A-100000@bigdog.engr.arizona.edu>
On Tue, 16 Jul 1996, C. Desmarias wrote: } A piece of advice: for a lo-cost alternative to owning a DAT, use your } hi-fi 4-head VCR instead.. provides a low-noise, hi-quality recording } method - and a pack of 6 hour tapes costs around $10 on sale. This is true. My brother used to make mix tapes using video tapes instead of normal audio tapes and the sound quality was great. _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ Eric Frans :: franse@bigdog.engr.arizona.edu _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
1996-07-17 23:17Mark KolmarI've tried several VHS decks (maybe 8mm or Beta does better), and even the top-of-the-line
From:
Mark Kolmar
To:
C. Desmarias
Cc:
Date:
Wed, 17 Jul 1996 18:17:14 -0500 (CDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
Reply to:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
permalink · <Pine.PTX.3.95.960717181521.11068B-100000@ccs1.ccs.nslsilus.org>
I've tried several VHS decks (maybe 8mm or Beta does better), and even the top-of-the-line Mitsubishi gives more distortion and noise than a decent cassette deck. --Mark On Tue, 16 Jul 1996, C. Desmarias wrote:
quoted 16 lines On Tue, 16 Jul 1996, Jon Drukman wrote:> On Tue, 16 Jul 1996, Jon Drukman wrote: > > > those are some very optimistic prices and i'm not even counting the casio > > samplers. assume a $100 mixer to tie it all together. that's already over > > $1000 and we're not even counting the wires, blank tapes and some sort of > > tape machine to record it all. i'll be generous and assume they didn't > > even OWN a DAT and instead rented one from a store when they needed it. > > A piece of advice: for a lo-cost alternative to owning a DAT, use your > hi-fi 4-head VCR instead.. provides a low-noise, hi-quality recording > method - and a pack of 6 hour tapes costs around $10 on sale. > > Cid. > > >
1996-07-16 06:36Matthew D. Smith> I disagree. > Why can't someone with, lets say, an old drummachine, 1 cheap > synthesize
From:
Matthew D. Smith
To:
Date:
Tue, 16 Jul 1996 08:36:52 GMT+2
Subject:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
permalink · <199607160638.XAA08103@taz.hyperreal.com>
quoted 4 lines I disagree.> I disagree. > Why can't someone with, lets say, an old drummachine, 1 cheap > synthesizer, some guitar pedals and an 8 channel DJ mixer, > all together worth perhaps $400, make IDM seriously?!
Yes, A lot of people have sneered at my project's setup. We use old shit, in fact we used to do all our our sequencing in BASIC on an old ZX Spectrum 182k+2.
quoted 2 lines In the end, the person controlling those machines will decide if its serious> In the end, the person controlling those machines will decide if its serious > IDM or not.
Hear, hear... I tried to do some 'serious' music in a real studio once but seemed to lose the dirtyness that had made me feel proud of what I was doing. It meant more to me as an artist to pull weird shit sounds out of my MS20 (audio triggered by a TX81Z & sequenced with a speccy) than to try and work with 'real pro' instruments & sequencers.
quoted 4 lines Waaah! The rawness, that beautifull lo-fi distorted noise, it just sounds> Waaah! The rawness, that beautifull lo-fi distorted noise, it just sounds > incredibly warm & real. Would those squelching hihats on SAW 85-92 sound > the same if they were mixed on a 48 channel digital computer controlled mixer..? > Too much fidelity ruins a lot...
Red Friday did a project using a ZX Spectrum with a RAM music machine. check out some of the sounds here... http://chilloutroom.eskom.co.za:8080/Red_Friday/sounds.htm _________________________________________________________________ Matthew D. Smith Eskom KZN SMART Project a72928@chilloutroom.eskom.co.za konman@iafrica.com Tel: +27-331-953857 Fax: +27-331-953858 Official Internet Systems Integrator for the PMB Arts Festival
1996-07-16 08:04Anika AgebjoernJon Drukman <jsd@cyborganic.com>: >> i'd say off the top of my head that you can't get int
From:
Anika Agebjoern
To:
Date:
Tue, 16 Jul 1996 10:04:14 +0200
Subject:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
permalink · <v01510104ae110a3b01cc@[130.236.16.5]>
Jon Drukman <jsd@cyborganic.com>:
quoted 3 lines i'd say off the top of my head that you can't get into IDM seriously>> i'd say off the top of my head that you can't get into IDM seriously >> without at least 2 or 3 thousand bucks worth of gear. i doubt that many >> people in their 20's have that much sitting around.
AIMEE C MERRITT <amerritt@library.ucla.edu>:
quoted 2 lines Correct me if I'm wrong (and I know someone will) but didn't Autechre>Correct me if I'm wrong (and I know someone will) but didn't Autechre >make their early stuff with only a drum machine and a sampler?
Perhaps, but a sampler alone can cost a lot more than 2 or 3 thousand bucks. So Jon is right. Though in the used market you can begin with a little less, $1500 was enough for an Atari and a good sampler for me. Or if you have a PC than you can get yourself a sound blaster for $100 and a tracker for free. Even music on that kind of equipment has been released, but it's not very usual. What I'm saying is that while this gear is now a lot cheaper than it was before, it's still too expensive for many people. It's not easy to eke out a living by releasing records. It's true that you don't need good equipment to make good music. But it's easier with good equipment (peobably takes more time too). Franz Enmark <eggshell@ts.umu.se>:
quoted 4 lines Besides, It doesn't take state-of-the-art equipment to make brilliant and>Besides, It doesn't take state-of-the-art equipment to make brilliant and >well produced music. "The White Room" by KLF (yeah, it's not IDM, but it >doesn't take less to make such a record..) was made with only an OB8 >(analogue syntheziser) and an Akai S-900 (sampler).
This is in fact what the record says. But this is a very professionally produced album, look at all the contributors. The vocals have been recorded with expensive microphones and effect boxes etc. and the engineers and programmers must have cost a lot of money too. PS. I got a bunch of CDs yesterday, Orbital "In sides" of which became my 300th. Everyone who thinks this is worth cheering for write me an empty message with subject line "Hurray!". +---------------------------- Johan Jaatinen ----------------------------+ | | | MU WILL RISE AGAIN | | | +----- enigmatically posting as Anika Agebjoern <AniAg@Info.LiU.se> -----+
1996-07-16 10:12Martin Ayrton>Bollocks. Do we all want to sound superclean & plastic with hi-crisp ultra >Hi fi 16 bits
From:
Martin Ayrton
To:
Date:
Tue, 16 Jul 1996 11:12:22 +0100
Subject:
(idm) Keep Music Underground
permalink · <1.5.4.32.19960716101222.0083e18c@mail.u-net.com>
quoted 3 lines Bollocks. Do we all want to sound superclean & plastic with hi-crisp ultra>Bollocks. Do we all want to sound superclean & plastic with hi-crisp ultra >Hi fi 16 bits/32DA EMU64 samplers & virtual Nordiclead Digital waveform >simulators ?
No maybe not but have you guys any idea what the most basic of investment is ? Some people quoted artists who have recorded tracks with a drum machine and a sampler. Ok the cheapest secondhand sampler in the UK is around 500Ukpounds, the cheapest drum machine at around 150Ukp. Thats not the final story, if you can get away without using a mixing desk *somehow?* you still need at least one FX unit - 150Ukp. What you gonner master it on - fucking cassette ? add another 350minimum for a DAT machine. So show me tune making on the cheap and as we say in the UK, I'll show my arse in Burtons Window .... M:)
1996-07-16 14:56Aimee C. MerrittAnd I got a Roland S-50 for under $400 (yes, dollars). While sample time is minimum, it do
From:
Aimee C. Merritt
To:
Danny Wolfers
Cc:
, Martin Ayrton
Date:
Tue, 16 Jul 1996 10:56:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
permalink · <SIMEON.9607161051.G@dyn-sel0-39.library.ucla.edu>
And I got a Roland S-50 for under $400 (yes, dollars). While sample time is minimum, it does the job. On Tue, 16 Jul 1996 19:09:37 +0200 (MET DST) Danny Wolfers <danwolfe@xs4all.nl> wrote:
quoted 1 line Bollocks. Do we all want to sound> >>Bollocks. Do we all want to sound
superclean & plastic with hi-crisp ultra
quoted 42 lines Hi fi 16 bits/32DA EMU64 samplers & virtual Nordiclead Digital waveform> >>Hi fi 16 bits/32DA EMU64 samplers & virtual Nordiclead Digital waveform > >>simulators ? > >No maybe not but have you guys any idea what the most basic of investment > >is ? > >Some people quoted artists who have recorded tracks with a drum machine > >and a sampler. Ok the cheapest secondhand sampler in the UK is around > >500Ukpounds, the cheapest drum machine at around 150Ukp. Thats not the > > A Mirage, An Akai S700, 612, A Roland MKS-100, S220, S10 are all samplers > well below 500 Ukp. > > >final story, if you can get away without using a mixing desk *somehow?* > >you still need at least one FX unit - 150Ukp. What you gonner master it > >on - fucking cassette ? add another 350minimum for a DAT machine. > > What's wrong with a fucking cassette? There are lots of records recorded > from "fucking cassette". > > >So show me tune making on the cheap and as we say in the UK, I'll show > >my arse in Burtons Window .... > > Ok, a cheap & good set up, taken from the bedroom consumer guide issue 32: > > Cheap mixing desk like an Inkel MX 72 Ukp. [With Echo & Phono input to > make > beautifull distortion] > Amiga 500 [can be used an excellent sequencer and 8 bit sampler] 70.Ukp. > Roland MT-32 soundmodule 70 Ukp. > Yamaha REX-50 Multi FX box/Microverb 120 Ukp. > Old Reel Tape machine for Echo FX -find them near the garbage can- > > Connect this to an amplifier and hey presto, a brilliant music recording studio > for under 500 Ukp.! > > > Bye. > > > Danwolfe@xs4all.nl > > http://www.xs4all.nl/~danwolfe >
1996-07-16 19:09Danny Wolfers>>Bollocks. Do we all want to sound superclean & plastic with hi-crisp ultra >>Hi fi 16 bi
From:
Danny Wolfers
To:
Martin Ayrton
Cc:
Date:
Tue, 16 Jul 1996 19:09:37 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
permalink · <199607161709.TAA25340@magigimmix.xs4all.nl>
quoted 8 lines Bollocks. Do we all want to sound superclean & plastic with hi-crisp ultra>>Bollocks. Do we all want to sound superclean & plastic with hi-crisp ultra >>Hi fi 16 bits/32DA EMU64 samplers & virtual Nordiclead Digital waveform >>simulators ? >No maybe not but have you guys any idea what the most basic of investment >is ? >Some people quoted artists who have recorded tracks with a drum machine >and a sampler. Ok the cheapest secondhand sampler in the UK is around >500Ukpounds, the cheapest drum machine at around 150Ukp. Thats not the
A Mirage, An Akai S700, 612, A Roland MKS-100, S220, S10 are all samplers well below 500 Ukp.
quoted 3 lines final story, if you can get away without using a mixing desk *somehow?*>final story, if you can get away without using a mixing desk *somehow?* >you still need at least one FX unit - 150Ukp. What you gonner master it >on - fucking cassette ? add another 350minimum for a DAT machine.
What's wrong with a fucking cassette? There are lots of records recorded from "fucking cassette".
quoted 2 lines So show me tune making on the cheap and as we say in the UK, I'll show>So show me tune making on the cheap and as we say in the UK, I'll show >my arse in Burtons Window ....
Ok, a cheap & good set up, taken from the bedroom consumer guide issue 32: Cheap mixing desk like an Inkel MX 72 Ukp. [With Echo & Phono input to make beautifull distortion] Amiga 500 [can be used an excellent sequencer and 8 bit sampler] 70.Ukp. Roland MT-32 soundmodule 70 Ukp. Yamaha REX-50 Multi FX box/Microverb 120 Ukp. Old Reel Tape machine for Echo FX -find them near the garbage can- Connect this to an amplifier and hey presto, a brilliant music recording studio for under 500 Ukp.! Bye. Danwolfe@xs4all.nl http://www.xs4all.nl/~danwolfe
1996-07-16 17:52C. DesmariasOn Tue, 16 Jul 1996, Danny Wolfers wrote: > >>Bollocks. Do we all want to sound superclean
From:
C. Desmarias
To:
Danny Wolfers
Cc:
Martin Ayrton ,
Date:
Tue, 16 Jul 1996 10:52:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
Reply to:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
permalink · <Pine.OSF.3.92a.960716104847.3296D-100000@saul2.u.washington.edu>
On Tue, 16 Jul 1996, Danny Wolfers wrote:
quoted 11 lines Bollocks. Do we all want to sound superclean & plastic with hi-crisp ultra> >>Bollocks. Do we all want to sound superclean & plastic with hi-crisp ultra > >>Hi fi 16 bits/32DA EMU64 samplers & virtual Nordiclead Digital waveform > >>simulators ? > >No maybe not but have you guys any idea what the most basic of investment > >is ? > >Some people quoted artists who have recorded tracks with a drum machine > >and a sampler. Ok the cheapest secondhand sampler in the UK is around > >500Ukpounds, the cheapest drum machine at around 150Ukp. Thats not the > > A Mirage, An Akai S700, 612, A Roland MKS-100, S220, S10 are all samplers > well below 500 Ukp.
I bought my first (and only) sampler for a mere $150 Canadian, an Akai S612 which I've been using for 6 years now. It's easy to convince yourself that you need tons of expensive gear to make better tracks, but the real truth is you can create quality music with *very* little monetary investment if you take it upon yourself to completely exploit the capabilities of what little you've got.. even archaic devices like reel-to-reels and Kmart Casios can create interesting soundscapes. Cid.
1996-07-16 17:57Steven T Lammers> It's easy to convince yourself that you need tons of expensive gear to > make better tra
From:
Steven T Lammers
To:
C. Desmarias
Cc:
Date:
Tue, 16 Jul 1996 13:57:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
Reply to:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
permalink · <199607161757.NAA28044@pilot05.cl.msu.edu>
quoted 6 lines It's easy to convince yourself that you need tons of expensive gear to> It's easy to convince yourself that you need tons of expensive gear to > make better tracks, but the real truth is you can create quality music > with *very* little monetary investment if you take it upon yourself to > completely exploit the capabilities of what little you've got.. even > archaic devices like reel-to-reels and Kmart Casios can create interesting > soundscapes.
I agree with this. It's not the equipment, it's the engineer. Steve
1996-07-16 20:53Kent WilliamsThis is a moot discussion -- probably of little interest to most IDM'ers. You can get good
From:
Kent Williams
To:
intelligent dance
Date:
Tue, 16 Jul 1996 15:53:18 -0500 (CDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
Reply to:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
permalink · <Pine.LNX.3.91.960716153421.1659A-100000@soli.inav.net>
This is a moot discussion -- probably of little interest to most IDM'ers. You can get good results on cheap equipment. But cheap equipment only goes so far. At a certain point, musician look to get the proper tools to more efficiently realize their ideas. And it doesn't have anything to do with the money -- it has to do with the commitment. You can be making $15K and if you eat cheap, and share a rathole apartment with friends, you can shake loose $2K or $3K a year to spend on gear. And all this 'keep it underground' stuff isn't just 'keep it within the clique.' Techno has artists, labels, distributors, and promoters that all are working outside the regular music industry, and by NOT being tied to the old hierarchy they can break the rules. To people who manage to cross over somehow, more power to them. But there is, and I hope there will always be, economic free zones like the underground techno industry. Things founded on person to person cooperation will always, to my way of thinking, be more real than things constructed by corporate entities operating in a consumer economy. What if it happened that in the US people stopped hanging out in bars and started going to parties and dancing? That's what has happened in the UK, and the pubs are hurting. And like the UK this will mean more cheesy dance clubs in malls, just like in the 70's. Most people want their entertainment packaged for them, and so will not seek out the independent operators on the margins. But that doesn't mean the independent scene won't thrive. History lesson -- before Disco was disco, the dance clubs, gay and straight, were doing their thing. Disco hit, and what had been a gay/black/puerto rican thing became part of the mass culture. When the wave crashed, people didn't stop dancing -- they went back underground. There is an uninterrupted line going back to the early 70's of independent labels pressing 12"s for DJs. If techno breaks big, and then fizzles, the same people will keep doing their thing, regardless of the larger culture, because it's what they love. So don't worry about the underground. The street will survive when the major labels and the posers they hire to capitalize on the street move on again. --------------------------------------------------------------------- "I read Keyboard, but it's like staring at a book with pictures of simple looking but expensive machines." -- Michael Lazarev NEW CD Comp Electronic Music Project http://soli.inav.net/~kent/emp.html Kent Williams kent@inav.net CADSI 2651 Crosspark Road Coralville IA 52241 (319) 338 6053 (home) (319) 626 6700 x 219 (work) (319) 626 3489 (fax)
1996-07-16 20:25Robert C. Galbraith>> >No maybe not but have you guys any idea what the most basic of investment >> >is ? >>
From:
Robert C. Galbraith
Cc:
Date:
Tue, 16 Jul 1996 13:25:35 -0700
Subject:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
permalink · <199607162025.NAA10176@dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com>
quoted 1 line No maybe not but have you guys any idea what the most basic of>> >No maybe not but have you guys any idea what the most basic of
investment
quoted 2 lines is ?>> >is ? >> >Some people quoted artists who have recorded tracks with a drum
machine
quoted 1 line and a sampler. Ok the cheapest secondhand sampler in the UK is>> >and a sampler. Ok the cheapest secondhand sampler in the UK is
around
quoted 1 line 500Ukpounds, the cheapest drum machine at around 150Ukp. Thats not>> >500Ukpounds, the cheapest drum machine at around 150Ukp. Thats not
the
quoted 2 lines A Mirage, An Akai S700, 612, A Roland MKS-100, S220, S10 are all>> >> A Mirage, An Akai S700, 612, A Roland MKS-100, S220, S10 are all
samplers
quoted 3 lines well below 500 Ukp.>> well below 500 Ukp. >> >> >final story, if you can get away without using a mixing desk
*somehow?*
quoted 1 line you still need at least one FX unit - 150Ukp. What you gonner>> >you still need at least one FX unit - 150Ukp. What you gonner
master it
quoted 3 lines on - fucking cassette ? add another 350minimum for a DAT machine.>> >on - fucking cassette ? add another 350minimum for a DAT machine. >> >> What's wrong with a fucking cassette? There are lots of records
recorded
quoted 3 lines from "fucking cassette".>> from "fucking cassette". >> >> >So show me tune making on the cheap and as we say in the UK, I'll
show
quoted 3 lines my arse in Burtons Window ....>> >my arse in Burtons Window .... >> >> Ok, a cheap & good set up, taken from the bedroom consumer guide
issue 32:
quoted 2 lines Cheap mixing desk like an Inkel MX 72 Ukp. [With Echo & Phono>> >> Cheap mixing desk like an Inkel MX 72 Ukp. [With Echo & Phono
input to
quoted 1 line>>
make
quoted 2 lines beautifull distortion]>> beautifull distortion] >> Amiga 500 [can be used an excellent sequencer and 8 bit sampler]
70.Ukp.
quoted 5 lines Roland MT-32 soundmodule 70 Ukp.>> Roland MT-32 soundmodule 70 Ukp. >> Yamaha REX-50 Multi FX box/Microverb 120 Ukp. >> Old Reel Tape machine for Echo FX -find them near the garbage can- >> >> Connect this to an amplifier and hey presto, a brilliant music
recording studio
quoted 2 lines for under 500 Ukp.!>> for under 500 Ukp.! >>
A studio yes but a brilliant one ....far from it. None of the pieces listed have filters or anythiung interesting to modulater the sound with. With the equipment listed above you will get a muddy and non descript sound. Realistacally a usefull studio can be had for about 2K. Here are some cool and under rated pieces that still sound mad Alpha Junos --- around $250 Korg 05rw-About $400 Mackie 1202 ----$250 used KAwai XD5-- $200 Sequential Sixtrack----$275 Lexicon Vortex--$200 SE50 --$250 SOny consumer dat $400
quoted 2 lines> >
ROB:)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
quoted 1 line>
1996-07-16 20:52Michael Dvorkin> I'd go with: Casio CZ101 $100 Casio VZ10M $200 Yamaha TX81Z $150 Alesis SR16 drum machin
From:
Michael Dvorkin
To:
Robert C. Galbraith
Cc:
Date:
Tue, 16 Jul 1996 15:52:36 -0500 (CDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
Reply to:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
permalink · <9607162051.AA20865@tddcae99.tddeng00.fnts.com>
quoted 1 line>
I'd go with: Casio CZ101 $100 Casio VZ10M $200 Yamaha TX81Z $150 Alesis SR16 drum machine $175 Alesis MMT8 sequencer $125 Mackie 1202 $250 Boss SE50 $250 Lexicon Vortex $150 (new) Sovtek Big Muff $60 (new) Sovtek Small Stone $70 (new) Boss Chorus $40 Boss Delay $50 Cheap DAT $500
quoted 16 lines Alpha Junos --- around $250> Alpha Junos --- around $250 > Korg 05rw-About $400 > Mackie 1202 ----$250 used > KAwai XD5-- $200 > Sequential Sixtrack----$275 > Lexicon Vortex--$200 > SE50 --$250 > SOny consumer dat $400 > > > > > > > > ROB:)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > >
quoted 1 line Illiterate? Write today for free help<>Illiterate? Write today for free help<
-- NOTE THE CHANGE OF MA WORK NUMBER --- ======================================== : VOX DAY . +1 214 479 2874 : : VOX EVE . +1 214 365 9323 : : FAX . +1 214 479 6989 : : E-MAIL . mdvorkin@tddcae99.fnts.com : ========================================= (c)1996 Llama Mama
1996-07-17 00:05Danny Wolfers>>> Ok, a cheap & good set up, taken from the bedroom consumer guide >issue 32: >>> Cheap
From:
Danny Wolfers
To:
Robert C. Galbraith
Cc:
Date:
Wed, 17 Jul 1996 00:05:00 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
permalink · <199607162205.AAA13296@magigimmix.xs4all.nl>
quoted 14 lines Ok, a cheap & good set up, taken from the bedroom consumer guide>>> Ok, a cheap & good set up, taken from the bedroom consumer guide >issue 32: >>> Cheap mixing desk like an Inkel MX 72 Ukp. [With Echo & Phono >>> Amiga 500 [can be used an excellent sequencer and 8 bit sampler] >70.Ukp. >>> Roland MT-32 soundmodule 70 Ukp. >>> Yamaha REX-50 Multi FX box/Microverb 120 Ukp. >>> Old Reel Tape machine for Echo FX -find them near the garbage can- >>> Connect this to an amplifier and hey presto, a brilliant music >recording studio >>> for under 500 Ukp.! >>> >A studio yes but a brilliant one ....far from it. None of the pieces >listed have filters or anythiung interesting to modulater the sound
Trainspotter alert: the Roland MT-32 has got filters and you can change the sound quite drasticly (with software). The Yamaha REX-50 effects can be edited drasticly too & err...the Amiga has got an analogue filter ...err..(ok, which cut-off freq. can only be turned on to 1 preset Hz or just off :) .).
quoted 2 lines with. With the equipment listed above you will get a muddy and non>with. With the equipment listed above you will get a muddy and non >descript sound. Realistacally a usefull studio can be had for about 2K.
I just love a muddy and non-descript sound. It was just an example.
quoted 1 line Here are some cool and under rated pieces that still sound mad>Here are some cool and under rated pieces that still sound mad
quoted 1 line Alpha Junos --- around $250>Alpha Junos --- around $250
Not in Holland, since gabbah & happy hardcore rule the charts here these Joey Beltram Vacuumcleaner-monsters now cost around 600-700 $. (I had my JU2 for $120 though:) ).
quoted 7 lines Korg 05rw-About $400>Korg 05rw-About $400 >Mackie 1202 ----$250 used >KAwai XD5-- $200 >Sequential Sixtrack----$275 >Lexicon Vortex--$200 >SE50 --$250 >SOny consumer dat $400
Do not forget the Yamaha TG33-box (divine pads for around $250), The Korg Poly 800 ($150), The Yamaha FB01 ($70) & all that stuff. Bye. Danwolfe@xs4all.nl http://www.xs4all.nl/~danwolfe
1996-07-17 11:00Maarten D. Schermer>> It's easy to convince yourself that you need tons of expensive gear to >> make better t
From:
Maarten D. Schermer
To:
Date:
Wed, 17 Jul 1996 11:00:29 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
permalink · <199607170900.LAA12590@magigimmix.xs4all.nl>
quoted 6 lines It's easy to convince yourself that you need tons of expensive gear to>> It's easy to convince yourself that you need tons of expensive gear to >> make better tracks, but the real truth is you can create quality music >> with *very* little monetary investment if you take it upon yourself to >> completely exploit the capabilities of what little you've got.. even >> archaic devices like reel-to-reels and Kmart Casios can create interesting >> soundscapes.
There are loads of people who've created great records in the past with next to no equipment - records that are (IMO) often much more interesting than the majority of the hi-tech digital ambient / techno / whatever records that come out these days. And often the fact that they were produced in bedrooms on cheap equipment, mastered on cassettes, etc. has given them that raw, noisy edge that makes them (even more) interesting. It's like with brightly lit rooms - you can see everything clearly, but when you turn off the light and replace it with a candle, the wavering light makes you guess at the things you can't really see beyond the depth of the flickering shadows. Or something. Hey, I almost got a record deal once for tracks recorded with nothing but a 386 plus SoundBlaster 16 - all tracker .MOD's built from semi-stereo 8 bit 44.1 kHz samples, run through a soundcard that made soft but audible noises every time the harddisk started spinning. No synths, no effects, no filters, not even MIDI. One track that was released on a compilation CD was even 8 bit mono at a 13 kHz sampling rate - and some people really liked it (including the guys who almost signed me later on). Are we listening to music or are we actually admiring how perfectly, digitally, totally silent the pauses inbetween are? Maarten on now: Monoton - Tonfolge
1996-07-17 20:53Aimee C. MerrittAll that noise you hear using a Mistubishi is the sound of the rainforest being bulldozed.
From:
Aimee C. Merritt
To:
Mark Kolmar
Cc:
, C. Desmarias
Date:
Wed, 17 Jul 1996 16:53:06 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) Keep Music Underground
permalink · <SIMEON.9607171606.C@dyn-sel0-39.library.ucla.edu>
All that noise you hear using a Mistubishi is the sound of the rainforest being bulldozed. Try to avoid buying Mitsubishi/Matsuhisha products if at all possible. They are one of those evil companies. On Wed, 17 Jul 1996 18:17:14 -0500 (CDT) Mark Kolmar <mkolmar@ccs.nslsilus.org> wrote:
quoted 1 line I've tried several VHS decks (maybe> I've tried several VHS decks (maybe
8mm or Beta does better), and even the
quoted 24 lines top-of-the-line Mitsubishi gives more distortion and noise than a decent> top-of-the-line Mitsubishi gives more distortion and noise than a decent > cassette deck. > > --Mark > > On Tue, 16 Jul 1996, C. Desmarias wrote: > > > On Tue, 16 Jul 1996, Jon Drukman wrote: > > > > > those are some very optimistic prices and i'm not even counting the casio > > > samplers. assume a $100 mixer to tie it all together. that's already over > > > $1000 and we're not even counting the wires, blank tapes and some sort of > > > tape machine to record it all. i'll be generous and assume they didn't > > > even OWN a DAT and instead rented one from a store when they needed it. > > > > A piece of advice: for a lo-cost alternative to owning a DAT, use your > > hi-fi 4-head VCR instead.. provides a low-noise, hi-quality recording > > method - and a pack of 6 hour tapes costs around $10 on sale. > > > > Cid. > > > > > > >