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Re: RE: [idm] who still buys CDs

57 messages · 34 participants · spans 8 days · search this subject
◇ merged from 2 subjects: who still buys cds · who still buys cds - rh + bitrate
2007-10-24 16:31rednetic [idm] who still buys CDs
├─ 2007-10-24 16:36theREALmxyzptlk Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
├─ 2007-10-24 17:28Scott Gentzen Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
│ └─ 2007-10-24 17:48Concrete Cookie RE: [idm] who still buys CDs
├─ 2007-10-24 17:41Alan Lockett Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
├─ 2007-10-24 20:39Joseph Stefani RE: [idm] who still buys CDs
├─ 2007-10-24 20:42Wallace Winfrey Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
│ └─ 2007-10-24 21:34rednetic Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
├─ 2007-10-25 04:10--- RE: [idm] who still buys CDs
├─ 2007-10-25 10:44n3wjack Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
│ ├─ 2007-10-25 13:35chthonic streams Re: [idm] who still buys CDs - RH + bitrate
│ │ └─ 2007-10-25 13:57Neil Walsh Re: [idm] who still buys CDs - RH + bitrate
│ │ └─ 2007-10-25 14:08chthonic streams Re: [idm] who still buys CDs - RH + bitrate
│ │ ├─ 2007-10-25 14:26Neil Walsh Re: [idm] who still buys CDs - RH + bitrate
│ │ │ └─ 2007-10-26 00:10chthonic streams Re: [idm] who still buys CDs - RH + bitrate
│ │ ├─ 2007-10-25 15:21Rusty Hodge Re: [idm] who still buys CDs - RH + bitrate
│ │ │ └─ 2007-10-25 17:08Wallace Winfrey Re: [idm] who still buys CDs - RH + bitrate
│ │ └─ 2007-10-25 16:01rednetic Re: [idm] who still buys CDs - RH + bitrate
│ ├─ 2007-10-25 14:08Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
│ │ └─ 2007-10-25 15:23Esa Ruoho Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
│ │ └─ 2007-10-25 15:39Shimone @ StaticBeats Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
│ │ └─ 2007-10-25 19:19Kurt Pruenner Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
│ └─ 2007-10-25 15:50rednetic Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
├─ 2007-10-25 11:44ruinae Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
└─ 2007-10-25 19:05ruinae Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
└─ 2007-10-26 11:10David Board RE: [idm] who still buys CDs
2007-10-24 16:34Kiya Babzani Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
2007-10-24 16:51David @ Audiobulb Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
├─ 2007-10-24 17:00Max & Mark RE: [idm] who still buys CDs
└─ 2007-10-24 17:03Shimone @ StaticBeats Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
└─ 2007-10-24 17:40Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
2007-10-24 18:05chthonic Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
└─ 2007-10-24 20:07John Goelzer RE: [idm] who still buys CDs
└─ 2007-10-24 20:38michael dunham RE: [idm] who still buys CDs
└─ 2007-10-24 21:58Edwin Wong RE: [idm] who still buys CDs
2007-10-24 22:52Shimone @ StaticBeats Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
├─ 2007-10-24 23:09mantrakid RE: [idm] who still buys CDs
└─ 2007-10-24 23:46theREALmxyzptlk Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
└─ 2007-10-24 23:59Shimone @ StaticBeats Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
└─ 2007-10-25 01:02theREALmxyzptlk Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
2007-10-25 04:02jason parent Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
2007-10-25 04:44Digital::Nimbus [idm] Re: who still buys CDs
└─ 2007-10-25 15:11Rusty Hodge Re: [idm] Re: who still buys CDs
└─ 2007-10-25 19:12Enquiries Re: [idm] Re: who still buys CDs
2007-10-26 05:18jason parent Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
└─ 2007-10-26 08:06David William Newman [idm] Re: who still buys CDs
└─ 2007-10-26 09:12Esa Ruoho Re: [idm] Re: who still buys CDs
└─ 2007-10-26 10:09F.Enmark Re: [idm] Re: who still buys CDs
└─ 2007-10-26 10:16Kurt Pruenner Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
└─ 2007-10-26 11:53F.Enmark Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
└─ 2007-10-26 14:26chthonic streams Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
2007-10-26 15:21jason parent Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
2007-10-30 18:42thorsten sideb0ard Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
└─ 2007-11-01 18:57Jacob Arnold Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
└─ 2007-11-01 23:26Caleb Cobell RE: [idm] who still buys CDs
2007-11-02 00:27Andrew Hime Re: RE: [idm] who still buys CDs
└─ 2007-11-02 04:12Caleb Cobell RE: [idm] who still buys CDs
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2007-10-24 16:31redneticHi Who still buys CDs? We are a small label that still sell CDs, but we are also starting
From:
rednetic
To:
Date:
Wed, 24 Oct 2007 09:31:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:
[idm] who still buys CDs
permalink · <13386412.post@talk.nabble.com>
Hi Who still buys CDs? We are a small label that still sell CDs, but we are also starting up paid for mp3 downloads. I have been thinking for a while that the future will be limited vinyl and digital downloads for labels such as us and CDs will disappear all together. We currently give away free mp3s as a netlabel, as i have always had the opinion that the quality isnt as good. I would be interested in peoples thoughts. mark rednetic recordings http://www.rednetic.com www.rednetic.com http://www.myspace.com/rednetic www.myspace.com/rednetic -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/who-still-buys-CDs-tf4684544.html#a13386412 Sent from the IDM mailing list archive at Nabble.com. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2007-10-24 16:36theREALmxyzptlkI buy both. The Rednetic releases (lots of which I own) cost me a lot because I have to pa
From:
theREALmxyzptlk
To:
rednetic
Cc:
idm
Date:
Wed, 24 Oct 2007 12:36:49 -0400
Subject:
Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
Reply to:
[idm] who still buys CDs
permalink · <471F74A1.1090600@comcast.net>
I buy both. The Rednetic releases (lots of which I own) cost me a lot because I have to pay import shipping...which is why I opt for downloads when I can. As someone who had bought a lot of CDs in the past (things have changed for me financially - just can't afford it), I can say that in this corner of the music market, CD releases have plummeted radically over the past year or so. jeff rednetic wrote:
quoted 14 lines Hi> Hi > Who still buys CDs? We are a small label that still sell CDs, but we are > also starting up paid for mp3 downloads. I have been thinking for a while > that the future will be limited vinyl and digital downloads for labels such > as us and CDs will disappear all together. > > We currently give away free mp3s as a netlabel, as i have always had the > opinion that the quality isnt as good. I would be interested in peoples > thoughts. > > mark > rednetic recordings > http://www.rednetic.com www.rednetic.com > http://www.myspace.com/rednetic www.myspace.com/rednetic
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2007-10-24 17:28Scott GentzenI haven't bought a huge amount of music this year, but with the exception of a 5-track EP,
From:
Scott Gentzen
To:
rednetic
Cc:
Date:
Wed, 24 Oct 2007 10:28:16 -0700
Subject:
Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
Reply to:
[idm] who still buys CDs
permalink · <790233CE-0115-1000-9AAA-F3002411B0A8-Webmail-10006@mac.com>
I haven't bought a huge amount of music this year, but with the exception of a 5-track EP, all of it has been on CD. And I might re-buy that EP when it comes out on CD too. I like having something physical to go along with a purchase. And if my hard drive crashes, it's easier to recover lost tracks with CDs. On Wednesday, October 24, 2007, at 12:31PM, "rednetic" <mark@rednetic.com> wrote:
quoted 26 lines Hi> >Hi >Who still buys CDs? We are a small label that still sell CDs, but we are >also starting up paid for mp3 downloads. I have been thinking for a while >that the future will be limited vinyl and digital downloads for labels such >as us and CDs will disappear all together. > >We currently give away free mp3s as a netlabel, as i have always had the >opinion that the quality isnt as good. I would be interested in peoples >thoughts. > >mark >rednetic recordings >http://www.rednetic.com www.rednetic.com >http://www.myspace.com/rednetic www.myspace.com/rednetic >-- >View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/who-still-buys-CDs-tf4684544.html#a13386412 >Sent from the IDM mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > >
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2007-10-24 17:48Concrete Cookie"the future will be limited vinyl " http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/campaigns/toxics/go-pvc-
From:
Concrete Cookie
To:
Scott Gentzen ,
Date:
Wed, 24 Oct 2007 10:48:52 -0700
Subject:
RE: [idm] who still buys CDs
Reply to:
Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
permalink · <BLU120-W16F7D26B219954BB4E62F293940@phx.gbl>
"the future will be limited vinyl " http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/campaigns/toxics/go-pvc-free but back on topic, i buy cds and vinyl and not mp3's...-----------------------------------------------------------MASHUP#1 : D.I.M. MASHUP#2: BLACK NOISE GENERATORMASHUP#3: KLäNG KLäNG 4.0HIV#18: A GREAT ESCAPE FROM LUNACYavailable @ http://www.thehardstore.com@ http://www.mashup.org [US]@ http://www.hiverecords.com [US]-----------------------------------------------------------
quoted 1 line Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 10:28:16 -0700> From: sgentzen@mac.com> To: mark@rednetic.com> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 10:28:16 -0700> From: sgentzen@mac.com> To: mark@rednetic.com> CC: idm@hyperreal.org> Subject: Re: [idm] who still buys CDs> > I haven't bought a huge amount of music this year, but with the exception of a 5-track EP, all of it has been on CD. And I might re-buy that EP when it comes out on CD too.> > I like having something physical to go along with a purchase. And if my hard drive crashes, it's easier to recover lost tracks with CDs.> > > On Wednesday, October 24, 2007, at 12:31PM, "rednetic" <mark@rednetic.com> wrote:> >> >Hi> >Who still buys CDs? We are a small label that still sell CDs, but we are> >also starting up paid for mp3 downloads. I have been thinking for a while> >that the future will be limited vinyl and digital downloads for labels such> >as us and CDs will disappear all together. > >> >We currently give away free mp3s as a netlabel, as i have always had the> >opinion that the quality isnt as good. I would be interested in peoples> >thoughts.> >> >mark> >rednetic recordings> >http://www.rednetic.com www.rednetic.com > >http://www.myspace.com/rednetic www.myspace.com/rednetic > >-- > >View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/who-still-buys-CDs-tf4684544.html#a13386412> >Sent from the IDM mailing list archive at Nabble.com.> >> >> >---------------------------------------------------------------------> >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org> >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org> >> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------> To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org> For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org>
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2007-10-24 17:41Alan LockettI'm not ready for a bodiless world yet. alan P.S. Though mp3s may score highly on function
From:
Alan Lockett
To:
rednetic ,
Date:
Wed, 24 Oct 2007 18:41:14 +0100
Subject:
Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
Reply to:
[idm] who still buys CDs
permalink · <6634FF74198121D82B07B05B@[192.168.0.4]>
I'm not ready for a bodiless world yet. alan P.S. Though mp3s may score highly on functionality, physical media carriers, with the facility they offer for presentation of a completely integrated art-oriented package, have a greater aesthetic cache. Mp3s remind me of what my Mum used to say about Chinese food - they give you the feeling of eating, and there's a satisfying element of flavour, but they leave you feeling strangely empty afterwards. I guess I'm just an Old-fashioned Boy. --On 24 October 2007 09:31 -0700 rednetic <mark@rednetic.com> wrote:
quoted 25 lines Hi> > Hi > Who still buys CDs? We are a small label that still sell CDs, but we are > also starting up paid for mp3 downloads. I have been thinking for a while > that the future will be limited vinyl and digital downloads for labels > such as us and CDs will disappear all together. > > We currently give away free mp3s as a netlabel, as i have always had the > opinion that the quality isnt as good. I would be interested in peoples > thoughts. > > mark > rednetic recordings > http://www.rednetic.com www.rednetic.com > http://www.myspace.com/rednetic www.myspace.com/rednetic > -- > View this message in context: > http://www.nabble.com/who-still-buys-CDs-tf4684544.html#a13386412 Sent > from the IDM mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >
---------------------- Alan Lockett (Senior Language Co-ordinator - EFL) Language Centre, University of Bristol, 30-32 Tyndall's Park Road, Bristol, BS8 1PY, UK tel: +44 (0)117 3310914 e-mail: Alan.R.Lockett@bristol.ac.uk --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2007-10-24 20:39Joseph StefaniUp until one year ago I was a CD buyer. Fully committed to CDs my stereo has two 400 CD ch
From:
Joseph Stefani
To:
'rednetic' , , 'idm list'
Date:
Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:39:20 -0400
Subject:
RE: [idm] who still buys CDs
Reply to:
[idm] who still buys CDs
permalink · <000001c8167d$f605afb0$5b0a1fac@hilltop.local>
Up until one year ago I was a CD buyer. Fully committed to CDs my stereo has two 400 CD changers...was regularly buying 10 per month at least. One year ago I purchased a Polk XM Satellite receiver for my stereo and have not purchased a CD since. Have plans now to transfer my CD collection to an external hard drive and sell the hard copies on ebay. Will then make a switch to mp3 although I am less than thrilled about the prospect because the technology is not familiar to me...but that is where I am headed. -Joe Joseph R. Stefani Headmaster Hilltop Country Day School 32 Lafayette Road Sparta, New Jersey 07871 973-729-5485 www.hilltopcds.org Hilltop Mission-- Hilltop Country Day School is committed to providing a family oriented, nurturing, creative, highly educational environment in which children: . Discover the excitement of learning; . Develop good study habits; . Grow in self-esteem and self-confidence; . Develop a sensitivity and respect for the rights and abilities of others; and . Learn to accept responsibility and meet personal challenges -----Original Message----- From: rednetic [mailto:mark@rednetic.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:32 PM To: idm@hyperreal.org Subject: [idm] who still buys CDs Hi Who still buys CDs? We are a small label that still sell CDs, but we are also starting up paid for mp3 downloads. I have been thinking for a while that the future will be limited vinyl and digital downloads for labels such as us and CDs will disappear all together. We currently give away free mp3s as a netlabel, as i have always had the opinion that the quality isnt as good. I would be interested in peoples thoughts. mark rednetic recordings http://www.rednetic.com www.rednetic.com http://www.myspace.com/rednetic www.myspace.com/rednetic -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/who-still-buys-CDs-tf4684544.html#a13386412 Sent from the IDM mailing list archive at Nabble.com. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2007-10-24 20:42Wallace WinfreyAt this point, I pretty much only buy limited-edition vinyl with some element of special p
From:
Wallace Winfrey
To:
idm
Date:
Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:42:00 -0600
Subject:
Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
Reply to:
[idm] who still buys CDs
permalink · <471FAE18.3080006@booyaka.com>
At this point, I pretty much only buy limited-edition vinyl with some element of special packaging to it, like 180-gram pressings, colored vinyl, picture discs and especially box sets. If a CD release also has some element of this kind of "specialness" to it, I'm inclined to pick that up too (case in point - the Rather Interesting "Classic" re-releases, which were signed and numbered). Digital music to me has very little worth, I mean, as a whole, I appreciate my digital music collection, but when you get down to the individual files in that collection, they're almost worthless. Like Alan Lockette said, physical media just has a much greater aesthetic cache. In Philip K. Dick's "The Man In the High Castle", one of the storylines is about how some of the characters create hand-made "Americana" objects which have an element called "Wu" (or "inner truth") about them. When the same objects are fabricated and produced on a mass scale, they lose their "Wu". A pair of Japanese collectors of authentic Americana are sensitive to objects with Wu and objects without, and develop special, intimate attachments to the authentic objects. To me, limited-edition physical media has much Wu, as opposed to digital files, which, with rare exception, have almost none. There was an article in the Village Voice this summer about Hospital Productions, a tiny East Village record store specializing in noise releases. There were a few quotes that seem notable: -- His customers—almost exclusively drawn to the hidden shop through friendly word-of-mouth—are searching for intimacy as well. "The more obscure, the rougher the packaging, the more handmade, the faster it sells," Fernow says. "The irony is that in getting away from trying to be mass-produced, you created an even more desirable consumer product. The CDs trickle. The vinyl? Pfft. Gone. I can barely keep that fucking thing full. The tapes? Gone. It's the personal touch, it's the feeling of the individual putting their mark on it." -- and -- The search, of course, is harder to find these days. "That's why things like MySpace and file-sharing turns me off, because it takes the sweat out of the underground," he says. "It just makes everything so fuckin' easy. There's no passion, no pursuit. You might as well be checking your fuckin' bank balance." -- It seems to me that, mp3s and the like are the ultimate negation of Wu - they're easy to obtain, easy to duplicate, easy to play back and easy to lug around. They require little to no care. Their convenience is what's best and worst about them. The convenience of the digital audio file has also contributed to an overabundance of shitty music by shitty labels sold at shitty online stores (rhymes with "Meatdork"). The only thing digital audio files are good for, IMO, is padding out an extensive home library and getting the word out about your music, which are very valuable attributes, but not worth money in and of themselves. If I were starting a label, I'd give the mp3s away for free (or by donation), encourage their distribution on the file-sharing networks (as complete packages, including .sfv files, .nfo files about the release encouraging people to buy the physical media if they like it, and high-res images) and put as much energy into creating physical media with as much "Wu" and "personal touch" into them as possible. Of course, that's just my opinion. I just think it's easier to sell someone something they can hold in their hand and put on their shelf. Their relationship to the music will grow more intimate if they have to seek it out and actually handle it in order to listen to it. w --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2007-10-24 21:34redneticthanks for all the responses so far very interesting. But it has got me thinking more. Is
From:
rednetic
To:
Date:
Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:34:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:
Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
Reply to:
Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
permalink · <13395657.post@talk.nabble.com>
thanks for all the responses so far very interesting. But it has got me thinking more. Is it the digital format or the fact its not packaged. What about the netlabels that supply artwork or flash movies? Or on the other hand i guess vinly with no packaging such as white labels definetly has a desirability. Also the PKD referance is very apt. As i was very into his stuff years ago and did a lot of reseach into peoples love of artifacts, we are magpies, at the time i was wondering how it would change in the digital age - the way we obtain more artifacts the more unstable our reality is. 200 years ago most people could name all they owned how true is that now, how many people can name every single possession they own. Anyway back to the music, we have made limited editions and its odd in a way because if advertised as such and they are hand crafted, they go like hotcakes (now theres an idea for packaging) but we do a release thats a small run and just advertise it as a normal release the sales are normal. So much of the desirability is down to the idea of it being limited or the craft love and skill that has gone into the object. Once again thanks for comments, keep em coming and any ideas on the above are obviously very welcome :-) -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/who-still-buys-CDs-tf4684544.html#a13395657 Sent from the IDM mailing list archive at Nabble.com. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2007-10-25 04:10---I buy as many cds as (and probably more than) I can afford. i'll buy vinyl if I have no ot
From:
---
To:
Date:
Thu, 25 Oct 2007 00:10:06 -0400
Subject:
RE: [idm] who still buys CDs
Reply to:
[idm] who still buys CDs
permalink · <000001c816bc$ed7500f0$71b52944@BALLSU23TKUCAX>
I buy as many cds as (and probably more than) I can afford. i'll buy vinyl if I have no other choice, but i've yet to purchase any mp3s. I probably will eventually if it's my only option. like some of the others, I like having something tangible for my money. I find that when I download music from netlabels and the like, it ends up collecting digital dust in a folder I have tagged for exploring at a later date. I have 30-some releases archived in my downloads folder as I type this, and the thought of "having" to eventually listen to them all gives me a headache. yet the cds and cdrs I just got in the mail find their way right into my cd player...must be the pretty cover artwork. incidentally, i've purchased some rednetic releases through the n5md mailorder. they've done a pretty good job of bringing similar labels together and give me a one-stop place domestically(US) where I can pick up a bunch of stuff that would probably cost me twice as much chasing them down from their overseas label mailorders. tom -----Original Message----- From: rednetic [mailto:mark@rednetic.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:32 PM To: idm@hyperreal.org Subject: [idm] who still buys CDs Hi Who still buys CDs? We are a small label that still sell CDs, but we are also starting up paid for mp3 downloads. I have been thinking for a while that the future will be limited vinyl and digital downloads for labels such as us and CDs will disappear all together. We currently give away free mp3s as a netlabel, as i have always had the opinion that the quality isnt as good. I would be interested in peoples thoughts. mark rednetic recordings http://www.rednetic.com www.rednetic.com http://www.myspace.com/rednetic www.myspace.com/rednetic -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/who-still-buys-CDs-tf4684544.html#a13386412 Sent from the IDM mailing list archive at Nabble.com. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2007-10-25 10:44n3wjackOMG a proper thread on the IDM list!! w00t!! :) And to actually answer the question, yes,
From:
n3wjack
To:
Date:
Thu, 25 Oct 2007 12:44:53 +0200
Subject:
Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
Reply to:
[idm] who still buys CDs
permalink · <320647220710250344k754cc25cgadd4a81302ecaa85@mail.gmail.com>
OMG a proper thread on the IDM list!! w00t!! :) And to actually answer the question, yes, I still buy CDs if I can. I haven't bought any digital releases online yet, but I see myself getting some on bleep.com since it's becoming increasingly hard to find the same releases on plastic with my favourite alternative record stores going out of business one by one. As a few others in here I also have the habit of ripping any new CD I bought straight to an insane quality mp3 file. That because it really sucks if a CD ends up scratched in the long run, and the music becomes unplayable. Secondly because it's so much easier to port the mp3 format all over the place and listen to it at work, in the car (mp3 radio), at home on the PC or dump it on an mp3 player. Sweet. The claim that mp3 quality sucks is bogus imo. If the bitrate is at the maximum (320kbps), you won't hear the difference with the original CD. If you've been buying mp3s at 128kbps you've been ripped off. 128kbps is for previews, like the latest Radiohead release up for download. Bleep.com does it at 320kbps for example. -- "progress doesn't come from early risers progress is made by lazy men looking for easier ways to do things" http://n3wjack.net http://www.jungletrain.net - 24/7 dnb radio station
2007-10-25 13:35chthonic streams> > If the bitrate is at the maximum (320kbps), you won't hear the > difference > with the
From:
chthonic streams
To:
idm
Date:
Thu, 25 Oct 2007 09:35:23 -0400
Subject:
Re: [idm] who still buys CDs - RH + bitrate
Reply to:
Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
permalink · <2560b7843847c2363db0799c32ab5e9a@chthonicstreams.com>
quoted 7 lines If the bitrate is at the maximum (320kbps), you won't hear the> > If the bitrate is at the maximum (320kbps), you won't hear the > difference > with the original CD. If you've been buying mp3s at 128kbps you've been > ripped off. 128kbps is for previews, like the latest Radiohead > release up > for download.
actually the radiohead mp3s are 160kbps. and i think they made that dedcision for a number of reasons. just guessing here... 1. keeping the file size down made the file transfer less costly. imagine the server charges from their ISP by multiplying 48MB by over a million downloads, and realize it would have ben even higher for bigger files. 2. *they* still prefer hard copy releases and know many of their fans do, and maybe wanted to show the difference/give something extra for those who end up buying both the mp3s because they can't wait and the hard copy at better quality. 3. since they decided on the "pay what you want" structure they knew a good portion would just pay next to nothing or nothing and then regardless the files would be uploaded elsewhere for more duplicating. in this case once again those people are getting something listenable but not true release-quality, so they may still want to get the CD later. as for not hearing the difference, i'd say that also depends on what the music is being played back on. with both coming straight out of a computer or ipod into earbuds or even decent headphones, an A/B of radiohead's "optimistic" (chosen for its midrange and low frequencies) was virtually the same between extracted AIFF and itunes-ripped 320kbps mp3 @ 44.1kHz. this is the only A/B test i've done - it may give different results with different frequency ranges. the problem may come when playing back at louder volumes on larger/better systems, or attempting to interface computer/portable players with loudspeakers - getting sound out of a 1/8" headphone jack is different than going through a proper audio output to a good external amp. i'm not sure how to get around that part. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2007-10-25 13:57Neil WalshOn 10/25/07, chthonic streams <chthonic@chthonicstreams.com> wrote: > > > > If the bitrate
From:
Neil Walsh
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idm
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Thu, 25 Oct 2007 14:57:08 +0100
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Re: [idm] who still buys CDs - RH + bitrate
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Re: [idm] who still buys CDs - RH + bitrate
permalink · <64e028a20710250657r48e7020fi196fdbbf6443fbc9@mail.gmail.com>
On 10/25/07, chthonic streams <chthonic@chthonicstreams.com> wrote:
quoted 15 lines If the bitrate is at the maximum (320kbps), you won't hear the> > > > If the bitrate is at the maximum (320kbps), you won't hear the > > difference > > with the original CD. If you've been buying mp3s at 128kbps you've been > > ripped off. 128kbps is for previews, like the latest Radiohead > > release up > > for download. > > actually the radiohead mp3s are 160kbps. and i think they made that > dedcision for a number of reasons. just guessing here... > > 1. keeping the file size down made the file transfer less costly. > imagine the server charges from their ISP by multiplying 48MB by over a > million downloads, and realize it would have ben even higher for bigger > files.
This would be true if they used a standard ISP to distribute the files but they didn't. Bandwidth is becoming very very cheap these days.
quoted 4 lines 2. *they* still prefer hard copy releases and know many of their fans> 2. *they* still prefer hard copy releases and know many of their fans > do, and maybe wanted to show the difference/give something extra for > those who end up buying both the mp3s because they can't wait and the > hard copy at better quality.
What they did was very cleverly leaked their own album. Hail To The Thief was leaked in unfinished format, which they were very annoyed with. This time, there were no promo copies or unfinished mixes floating around (I would assume because they didn't have a record label to keep up to date?), so they were free to release it how and when they wanted to. It's still coming out on regular CD (January 2008 is slated as a possible release date) on probably a major label, so it wasn't that revolutionary what they did. Neil --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2007-10-25 14:08chthonic streams>> 1. keeping the file size down made the file transfer less costly. >> imagine the server
From:
chthonic streams
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idm
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Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:08:24 -0400
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Re: [idm] who still buys CDs - RH + bitrate
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Re: [idm] who still buys CDs - RH + bitrate
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quoted 9 lines 1. keeping the file size down made the file transfer less costly.>> 1. keeping the file size down made the file transfer less costly. >> imagine the server charges from their ISP by multiplying 48MB by over >> a >> million downloads, and realize it would have ben even higher for >> bigger >> files. > > This would be true if they used a standard ISP to distribute the files > but they didn't. Bandwidth is becoming very very cheap these days.
i'm not privy to exact numbers, especially not in england, or with whatever special deal they probably struck up. all i know is 2 years ago i discussed the ISP/bandwidth issue with the webmaster of one of their biggest fansites and he was getting hit hard. i'd imagine the official site would have similar issues.
quoted 12 lines 2. *they* still prefer hard copy releases and know many of their fans>> 2. *they* still prefer hard copy releases and know many of their fans >> do, and maybe wanted to show the difference/give something extra for >> those who end up buying both the mp3s because they can't wait and the >> hard copy at better quality. > > What they did was very cleverly leaked their own album. Hail To The > Thief was leaked in unfinished format, which they were very annoyed > with. > This time, there were no promo copies or unfinished mixes floating > around (I would assume because they didn't have a record label to keep > up to date?), so they were free to release it how and when they wanted > to.
right, good point. they figured it was going to happen anyway so they did it themselves and found a way to make money off it. they are in a unique situation however, or at least rare, in that they have a devoted fanbase waiting for their every move. the artists in that situation got into that position with the help of recording labels/marketing.
quoted 3 lines It's still coming out on regular CD (January 2008 is slated as a> It's still coming out on regular CD (January 2008 is slated as a > possible release date) on probably a major label, so it wasn't that > revolutionary what they did.
the word now is it may actually be licensed to a series of "indie" labels, the north american one being run by dave matthews' manager, and marketed by XL recordings worldwide. releasing it in multiple formats is their way of acknowledging that we are in a state of flux. personally i do not believe mp3's are the be-all-end-all of the format wars. regardless, you can't turn your back on those who still want a physical copy specifically dedicated to one artist release (as several respondents to this thread have demonstrated). d. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2007-10-25 14:26Neil WalshOn 10/25/07, chthonic streams <chthonic@chthonicstreams.com> wrote: > >> 1. keeping the fi
From:
Neil Walsh
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chthonic streams
Cc:
idm
Date:
Thu, 25 Oct 2007 15:26:49 +0100
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Re: [idm] who still buys CDs - RH + bitrate
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Re: [idm] who still buys CDs - RH + bitrate
permalink · <64e028a20710250726g7100c170pe75f0e256f0c9294@mail.gmail.com>
On 10/25/07, chthonic streams <chthonic@chthonicstreams.com> wrote:
quoted 15 lines 1. keeping the file size down made the file transfer less costly.> >> 1. keeping the file size down made the file transfer less costly. > >> imagine the server charges from their ISP by multiplying 48MB by over > >> a > >> million downloads, and realize it would have ben even higher for > >> bigger > >> files. > > > > This would be true if they used a standard ISP to distribute the files > > but they didn't. Bandwidth is becoming very very cheap these days. > > i'm not privy to exact numbers, especially not in england, or with > whatever special deal they probably struck up. all i know is 2 years > ago i discussed the ISP/bandwidth issue with the webmaster of one of > their biggest fansites and he was getting hit hard. i'd imagine the > official site would have similar issues.
Sorry I meant to tag a link onto the end of that bit... http://www.ateaseweb.com/2007/10/14/the-secret-behind-in-rainbows-speedy-download/ I can't comment on the costs, but I imagine they would be less than any hosting package from an ISP.
quoted 18 lines 2. *they* still prefer hard copy releases and know many of their fans> >> 2. *they* still prefer hard copy releases and know many of their fans > >> do, and maybe wanted to show the difference/give something extra for > >> those who end up buying both the mp3s because they can't wait and the > >> hard copy at better quality. > > > > What they did was very cleverly leaked their own album. Hail To The > > Thief was leaked in unfinished format, which they were very annoyed > > with. > > This time, there were no promo copies or unfinished mixes floating > > around (I would assume because they didn't have a record label to keep > > up to date?), so they were free to release it how and when they wanted > > to. > > right, good point. they figured it was going to happen anyway so they > did it themselves and found a way to make money off it. they are in a > unique situation however, or at least rare, in that they have a devoted > fanbase waiting for their every move. the artists in that situation > got into that position with the help of recording labels/marketing.
That's very true.
quoted 7 lines It's still coming out on regular CD (January 2008 is slated as a> > It's still coming out on regular CD (January 2008 is slated as a > > possible release date) on probably a major label, so it wasn't that > > revolutionary what they did. > > the word now is it may actually be licensed to a series of "indie" > labels, the north american one being run by dave matthews' manager, and > marketed by XL recordings worldwide.
Yeah I just read that now.
quoted 6 lines releasing it in multiple formats is their way of acknowledging that we> releasing it in multiple formats is their way of acknowledging that we > are in a state of flux. personally i do not believe mp3's are the > be-all-end-all of the format wars. regardless, you can't turn your > back on those who still want a physical copy specifically dedicated to > one artist release (as several respondents to this thread have > demonstrated).
Yep, it should be possible for all formats to happily co-exist. Neil --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2007-10-26 00:10chthonic streams>> releasing it in multiple formats is their way of acknowledging that we >> are in a stat
From:
chthonic streams
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idm
Date:
Thu, 25 Oct 2007 20:10:03 -0400
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Re: [idm] who still buys CDs - RH + bitrate
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Re: [idm] who still buys CDs - RH + bitrate
permalink · <4213e341b63434280d9befdb1668424f@chthonicstreams.com>
quoted 8 lines releasing it in multiple formats is their way of acknowledging that we>> releasing it in multiple formats is their way of acknowledging that we >> are in a state of flux. personally i do not believe mp3's are the >> be-all-end-all of the format wars. regardless, you can't turn your >> back on those who still want a physical copy specifically dedicated to >> one artist release (as several respondents to this thread have >> demonstrated). > > Yep, it should be possible for all formats to happily co-exist.
it *should*, but sadly history has shown eventually some formats die out, and not always because they were inferior. i would argue less about mp3's if not for two main things: 1. i want CD's to remain an option, and not just a weird hard-to-find collector option, but the established official release. an artist's art should be able to literally stand on its own, not simply be a blip in a never-ending jukebox of whoever. i know this is the opposite of the techno standpoint, but i'm talking about music of many genres. 2. the bad apples *can* spoil the whole bunch, as declining CD sales and closing labels seem to show. plenty of people in the world think they deserve everything as cheap or free as they can get it. free hi-quality preview clips are one thing, free crappy downloads are another, but people happily DLing near-CD-quality files that artists spend tons of time, creativity, and $ on is fucked up. i've literally heard "i'm buying an ipod, i'll never have to pay for music again" out of someone's mouth. these are people would *would* have bought something if they had to. but now feel they don't. most don't even know where to get pirated mp3's, but they just know it's out there and "everyone's doing it". though i don't support the RIAA tracking down individuals and suing them, how do you gently tell such people what they're doing is harmful to everyone? --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2007-10-25 15:21Rusty Hodge> i'm not privy to exact numbers, especially not in england, or with > whatever special de
From:
Rusty Hodge
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chthonic streams
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idm
Date:
Thu, 25 Oct 2007 08:21:19 -0700
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Re: [idm] who still buys CDs - RH + bitrate
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Re: [idm] who still buys CDs - RH + bitrate
permalink · <14A35CF0-27B8-473C-B3F0-EA2BD16C6516@hodge.com>
quoted 5 lines i'm not privy to exact numbers, especially not in england, or with> i'm not privy to exact numbers, especially not in england, or with > whatever special deal they probably struck up. all i know is 2 > years ago i discussed the ISP/bandwidth issue with the webmaster of > one of their biggest fansites and he was getting hit hard. i'd > imagine the official site would have similar issues.
If they sold 1.2 million copies in a week, that's an average of 2 per second. At 160 Kbps MP3 assuming arox 50 minutes album duration that's 480 Megabits per album or an average download rate of 0.95 Gbits per second. In the US, you can get a 1gb/sec connection for $10-12,000 US a month. If your ISP is charging you mer megabyte or gigabyte transferred, and not mbit/sec (or gbit/sec), you are paying WAY TOO MUCH for bandwidth if you're transferring over 20 gigabytes a month. It's easy to assume that RH's distribution system was costing them $15-20,000 a month (including renting a few servers and the bandwidth cost). Bandwidth is cheap, if you buy it in the right places, but it's sure not free. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2007-10-25 17:08Wallace WinfreyRusty Hodge wrote: > If your ISP is charging you mer megabyte or gigabyte transferred, and
From:
Wallace Winfrey
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idm
Date:
Thu, 25 Oct 2007 11:08:55 -0600
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Re: [idm] who still buys CDs - RH + bitrate
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Re: [idm] who still buys CDs - RH + bitrate
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Rusty Hodge wrote:
quoted 3 lines If your ISP is charging you mer megabyte or gigabyte transferred, and> If your ISP is charging you mer megabyte or gigabyte transferred, and > not mbit/sec (or gbit/sec), you are paying WAY TOO MUCH for bandwidth if > you're transferring over 20 gigabytes a month.
Unless you're using Amazon S3 for file distribution, which anyone for whom download bandwidth is a major issue should be looking into. I switched my employer's downloads from our site to S3 and we immediately started saving $5,000/month in bandwidth fees. It's kinda janky in some ways, but man, it's fucking cheap. And the download rates don't suck either. w --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2007-10-25 16:01redneticI think the best way of looking at it is that its the idea of the digital format, not mp3.
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rednetic
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Thu, 25 Oct 2007 09:01:08 -0700 (PDT)
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Re: [idm] who still buys CDs - RH + bitrate
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Re: [idm] who still buys CDs - RH + bitrate
permalink · <13409303.post@talk.nabble.com>
I think the best way of looking at it is that its the idea of the digital format, not mp3. Certainly there'll be more. I expect to be releasing at some point as 48khz and above. -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/who-still-buys-CDs-tf4684544.html#a13409303 Sent from the IDM mailing list archive at Nabble.com. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2007-10-25 14:08Brian.Power@cso.ieDunno that this will find favour with too many folk here but here goes it anyway... At the
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Thu, 25 Oct 2007 15:08:09 +0100
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Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
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Dunno that this will find favour with too many folk here but here goes it anyway... At the end of the day I would love to be able to afford to have the hard copy artifact, and perhaps there is a way for record companies to allow for this to happen, but it will take a major reseller (Amazon, iTunes or eMusic for example) to start selling digital downloads not as a finished artifact, but rather as something closer to paid for previews - if you like what you hear you're free to pay peanuts for a low bitrate copy (you could even put some form of crippleware/DRM in there that'll time out after so many plays or days - wasn't/isn't Napster doing something like that ?) BUT if you "love" what you hear and want to access a better quality reproduction (i.e. CD, WAV or FLAC) you only have to swop back your low bitrate MP3 and pay the difference between the original low bitrate mp3 and the price of the higher quality non crippled reproduction. Also a greater incentive then for musicians and producers to create well written, engineered and mastered music - the better the products qualities, the higher the rewards. Not gonna turn the music industry on it's head/bring it to it's knees exactly, but should help create a more favourable market in which customers get to hear exactly (and only) what they really want to hear at a quality they feel appropriate to their budget/taste. |---------+----------------------------> | | n3wjack | | | <n3wjack@n3wjack.| | | net> | | | Sent by: | | | n3wjack@gmail.com| | | | | | | | | 25/10/2007 11:44 | |---------+----------------------------> >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | | | To: idm@hyperreal.org | | cc: | | Subject: Re: [idm] who still buys CDs | >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| OMG a proper thread on the IDM list!! w00t!! :) And to actually answer the question, yes, I still buy CDs if I can. I haven't bought any digital releases online yet, but I see myself getting some on bleep.com since it's becoming increasingly hard to find the same releases on plastic with my favourite alternative record stores going out of business one by one. As a few others in here I also have the habit of ripping any new CD I bought straight to an insane quality mp3 file. That because it really sucks if a CD ends up scratched in the long run, and the music becomes unplayable. Secondly because it's so much easier to port the mp3 format all over the place and listen to it at work, in the car (mp3 radio), at home on the PC or dump it on an mp3 player. Sweet. The claim that mp3 quality sucks is bogus imo. If the bitrate is at the maximum (320kbps), you won't hear the difference with the original CD. If you've been buying mp3s at 128kbps you've been ripped off. 128kbps is for previews, like the latest Radiohead release up for download. Bleep.com does it at 320kbps for example. -- "progress doesn't come from early risers progress is made by lazy men looking for easier ways to do things" http://n3wjack.net http://www.jungletrain.net - 24/7 dnb radio station
2007-10-25 15:23Esa Ruohoanzone have an url for that radiohead news item thing?
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Esa Ruoho
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idm@hyperreal.org
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Thu, 25 Oct 2007 17:23:22 +0200
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Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
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permalink · <538fa8f10710250823r1a66d723h370042ee8e98c258@mail.gmail.com>
anzone have an url for that radiohead news item thing?
2007-10-25 15:39Shimone @ StaticBeatsRadiohead May Have Made $6-$10 Million on Name-Your Cost Album http://slashdot.org/article
From:
Shimone @ StaticBeats
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Esa Ruoho
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idm list
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Thu, 25 Oct 2007 07:39:08 -0800
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Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
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permalink · <16945f3e0710250839i66641671r6779b854c6c24d3b@mail.gmail.com>
Radiohead May Have Made $6-$10 Million on Name-Your Cost Album http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/10/19/211245 Name-Your-Cost Radiohead Album Pirated More Than Purchased http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/10/17/2032246 Radiohead Says Name Your Own Price for New Album http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/10/01/164234 Shimone @ StaticBeats On 10/25/07, Esa Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote:
quoted 2 lines anzone have an url for that radiohead news item thing?> anzone have an url for that radiohead news item thing? >
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2007-10-25 19:19Kurt PruennerShimone @ StaticBeats wrote: > On 10/25/07, Esa Ruoho wrote: > > anzone have an url for th
From:
Kurt Pruenner
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Sounds Made By A Dying DSP
Date:
Thu, 25 Oct 2007 21:19:32 +0200
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Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
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Shimone @ StaticBeats wrote:
quoted 11 lines On 10/25/07, Esa Ruoho wrote:> On 10/25/07, Esa Ruoho wrote: > > anzone have an url for that radiohead news item thing? > > Radiohead May Have Made $6-$10 Million on Name-Your Cost Album > http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/10/19/211245 > > Name-Your-Cost Radiohead Album Pirated More Than Purchased > http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/10/17/2032246 > > Radiohead Says Name Your Own Price for New Album > http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/10/01/164234
By the way, there's another similar thing on the horizon: http://niggytardust.com/ Buy the new album "The Inevitable Rise And Liberation Of Niggytardust" by Saul Williams & Trent Reznor for 5 USD and download it as 192kbps or 320kbps MP3s or as FLACs. Or get it for free as 192kbps MP3s. Release date is November 1st. I just bought the FLACs and am looking forward to them - but if they had made the price user-chooseable I probably would have given a bit more... :) Oh yeah, FSOL - From The Archives Vol. 4 isn't being released on CD, but on Bleep.com and FSOLDigital.com only. And just for the record, other than stuff that's not available on CD (like vinyl-only or MP3-only releases) I still prefer buying CDs and ripping them myself, although FLAC doesn't hurt either... -- Kurt Bernhard Pruenner --- Haendelstrasse 17 --- 4020 Linz --- Austria .......It might be written "Mindfuck", but it's spelt "L-A-I-N"....... np: Future Sound Of London - Night Lapsed (From The Archives Vol. 2) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2007-10-25 15:50redneticIsn’t it the inherent compression in the mp3 format that makes the quality below .wav not
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rednetic
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Thu, 25 Oct 2007 08:50:18 -0700 (PDT)
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Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
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permalink · <13409225.post@talk.nabble.com>
Isn’t it the inherent compression in the mp3 format that makes the quality below .wav not the bitrate as such. part of the reason behind setting up our own digital download service for the label is to have control over our choice of formats - the ability to experiment. Mp3s are very handy but i do notice the differance, maybe not in clubs but on headphones definetly. It does seem that the majority of people here do pretty much what i do which is buy CDs, rip them, download mp3s, and buy vinyl. Pick and chose, mix and match depending on availability and a variey of criteria. Personally i like the idea of mp3s as a label owner as it saves less time at the post office sending of parcels, but i do like receiving parcels especially with music in them. So will the big labels give up the fight, if not how will they change? I cant see them forcing their wil power on the public like the did with CDs, its already way too late. It way easier for small labels to survice as a bad chosie in format isnt going to waste us millions. Maybe large labels will evolve into search engines and performance/gig managers. People want to make music and people want to listen, everything else inbetween is in very big flux. Our 2015 release will be available in the pen injectable format, please consult your doctor, also available as a cheese spread, taste that music. -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/who-still-buys-CDs-tf4684544.html#a13409225 Sent from the IDM mailing list archive at Nabble.com. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2007-10-25 11:44ruinaeNot me. 95% of my collection is either high bit-rate mp3 or lossless. I usually don't care
From:
ruinae
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Thu, 25 Oct 2007 07:44:53 -0400
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Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
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[idm] who still buys CDs
permalink · <641b7bd0710250444v5dc0c33p553d5e68ddab4708@mail.gmail.com>
Not me. 95% of my collection is either high bit-rate mp3 or lossless. I usually don't care about packaging, it's the audio I'm after. The other 5% is maybe 2-3 compact disks /month; to be ripped to lossless. And yes, I'm a major bleep / boomkat / e-music customer... I have a mirror image of my collection on a spare HDD if my main HDD fails, (which I make regular backups on) -- as a contingency plan. There's no problem here with not having a physical recording on my shelf. All content on any CD (hell, even vinyl) is data anyway. People are alienated just due to the fact they need something to collect. What good is a virtual bottle cap collection? I dunno, but do bottle caps store data? And as n3wjack briefly mentioned, look at Radiohead's new (probable) million(s) or so they got out of self-releasing digitally. Basic supply & demand here folks. If huge music corporations can't keep up with the demand for DRM-less, & lossless digital purchases -- I guess they deserve a loss in profits. Just another way to cut out the exploitive middle men known as the recording industry. Digital is the future of music; good for me -- good for the artists / labels (if they're smart enough)... Also, Portable MP3 > Portable CD. Search Slashdot for the headline: Radiohead May Have Made $6-$10 Million on Name-Your Cost Album On 10/24/07, rednetic <mark@rednetic.com> wrote:
quoted 25 lines Hi> > Hi > Who still buys CDs? We are a small label that still sell CDs, but we are > also starting up paid for mp3 downloads. I have been thinking for a while > that the future will be limited vinyl and digital downloads for labels such > as us and CDs will disappear all together. > > We currently give away free mp3s as a netlabel, as i have always had the > opinion that the quality isnt as good. I would be interested in peoples > thoughts. > > mark > rednetic recordings > http://www.rednetic.com www.rednetic.com > http://www.myspace.com/rednetic www.myspace.com/rednetic > -- > View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/who-still-buys-CDs-tf4684544.html#a13386412 > Sent from the IDM mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >
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2007-10-25 19:05ruinaeLAME encoded Mp3 audio sounds completely transparent @ ~320 kbps -- Especially if there's
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ruinae
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Thu, 25 Oct 2007 15:05:35 -0400
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Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
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[idm] who still buys CDs
permalink · <641b7bd0710251205q3e0c4526o7242342317a66abf@mail.gmail.com>
LAME encoded Mp3 audio sounds completely transparent @ ~320 kbps -- Especially if there's no filtering during the process. Grab your favorite .wav, plug the following into lame, and compress said .wav: -b 320 -m j -h -q 9 -k I challenge you to tell me there's any /audible/ difference. On 10/24/07, rednetic <mark@rednetic.com> wrote:
quoted 25 lines Hi> > Hi > Who still buys CDs? We are a small label that still sell CDs, but we are > also starting up paid for mp3 downloads. I have been thinking for a while > that the future will be limited vinyl and digital downloads for labels such > as us and CDs will disappear all together. > > We currently give away free mp3s as a netlabel, as i have always had the > opinion that the quality isnt as good. I would be interested in peoples > thoughts. > > mark > rednetic recordings > http://www.rednetic.com www.rednetic.com > http://www.myspace.com/rednetic www.myspace.com/rednetic > -- > View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/who-still-buys-CDs-tf4684544.html#a13386412 > Sent from the IDM mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >
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2007-10-26 11:10David BoardI can definitely tell the difference between mp3 (whatever bitrate) and 16-bit 41kHz CD Au
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David Board
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Fri, 26 Oct 2007 12:10:52 +0100
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RE: [idm] who still buys CDs
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Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
permalink · <BLU106-W4103B84D1E482FF992A4FDA4960@phx.gbl>
I can definitely tell the difference between mp3 (whatever bitrate) and 16-bit 41kHz CD Audio. You lost a lot of the depth to the sub-bass frequencies and there is a brittle 'fizziness' to the frequencies in the 17.2kHz - 20kHz range. I give you that for the average listener who has a cheap £200 hi-fi system from dixons or something will probably notice no difference, and the standard headphones that come with the iPod are terrible so music sounds crap whatever format they are in. In fact, I am not a particular fan of digital audio is any form... CDs sound pretty good nowadays but you just can't beat the sound of vinyl. I know it's a cliche, but apart from the warmth, lushness and depth of vinyl, there is also the lovely big album artwork, the sensation and ritual of setting up the turntable and flipping the records over. For me, music is not 'background ambience'... it is something I will sit down and listen to for a few hours a day. Having a computer whirring away in the background is not very nice.... and the act of clicking a mouse is rather unsatisfying. In fact, most computer soundcards have very noisy outputs which only makes the sound worse. When you've spent lots of money on a soundsystem, you don't want to jepordise the quality with a crappy audio source. Dave
quoted 45 lines Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 15:05:35 -0400> Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 15:05:35 -0400 > From: ruinae@gmail.com > To: idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: Re: [idm] who still buys CDs > > LAME encoded Mp3 audio sounds completely transparent @ ~320 kbps -- > Especially if there's no filtering during the process. > > Grab your favorite .wav, plug the following into lame, and compress said .wav: > > -b 320 -m j -h -q 9 -k > > I challenge you to tell me there's any /audible/ difference. > > On 10/24/07, rednetic <mark@rednetic.com> wrote: > > > > Hi > > Who still buys CDs? We are a small label that still sell CDs, but we are > > also starting up paid for mp3 downloads. I have been thinking for a while > > that the future will be limited vinyl and digital downloads for labels such > > as us and CDs will disappear all together. > > > > We currently give away free mp3s as a netlabel, as i have always had the > > opinion that the quality isnt as good. I would be interested in peoples > > thoughts. > > > > mark > > rednetic recordings > > http://www.rednetic.com www.rednetic.com > > http://www.myspace.com/rednetic www.myspace.com/rednetic > > -- > > View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/who-still-buys-CDs-tf4684544.html#a13386412 > > Sent from the IDM mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >
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2007-10-24 16:34Kiya BabzaniI don't really own any MP3's and i still purchase between 10 and 20 CDs a month. I can't l
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Kiya Babzani
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Wed, 24 Oct 2007 09:34:59 -0700
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Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
permalink · <006701c8165b$d2fd26a0$74ddf304@gqhlamec>
I don't really own any MP3's and i still purchase between 10 and 20 CDs a month. I can't listen to music if it doesn't come with some sort of physical artwork in the form of a jewel case or 12" record sleeve. -kiya www.selfedge.com ----- Original Message ----- From: rednetic <mark@rednetic.com> To: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 9:31 AM Subject: [idm] who still buys CDs
quoted 24 lines Hi> > Hi > Who still buys CDs? We are a small label that still sell CDs, but we are > also starting up paid for mp3 downloads. I have been thinking for a while > that the future will be limited vinyl and digital downloads for labels such > as us and CDs will disappear all together. > > We currently give away free mp3s as a netlabel, as i have always had the > opinion that the quality isnt as good. I would be interested in peoples > thoughts. > > mark > rednetic recordings > http://www.rednetic.com www.rednetic.com > http://www.myspace.com/rednetic www.myspace.com/rednetic > -- > View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/who-still-buys-CDs-tf4684544.html#a13386412 > Sent from the IDM mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >
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2007-10-24 16:51David @ AudiobulbHi Mark I buy 5-10 CDs per month The physical CD gives packaging to compliment the music a
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David @ Audiobulb
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Date:
Wed, 24 Oct 2007 17:51:41 +0100
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Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
permalink · <001b01c8165e$27b8ab90$64e0a850@BEPPC>
Hi Mark I buy 5-10 CDs per month The physical CD gives packaging to compliment the music and most importantly a higher quality audio - offering a more dynamic soundstage.... I'm an audiophile and mp3's just sound cheap to me.... When 16 bit or better comes online over the next it will be a different matter.... David ----- Original Message ----- From: "rednetic" <mark@rednetic.com> To: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 5:31 PM Subject: [idm] who still buys CDs
quoted 28 lines Hi> > Hi > Who still buys CDs? We are a small label that still sell CDs, but we are > also starting up paid for mp3 downloads. I have been thinking for a while > that the future will be limited vinyl and digital downloads for labels > such > as us and CDs will disappear all together. > > We currently give away free mp3s as a netlabel, as i have always had the > opinion that the quality isnt as good. I would be interested in peoples > thoughts. > > mark > rednetic recordings > http://www.rednetic.com www.rednetic.com > http://www.myspace.com/rednetic www.myspace.com/rednetic > -- > View this message in context: > http://www.nabble.com/who-still-buys-CDs-tf4684544.html#a13386412 > Sent from the IDM mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > >
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2007-10-24 17:00Max & MarkI dont buy any mp3 yet, just cd'S and sometime 12'', I buy between 4 and 10 cds a month Th
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Max & Mark
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Wed, 24 Oct 2007 13:00:30 -0400
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RE: [idm] who still buys CDs
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Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
permalink · <005401c8165f$627f4030$3b01a8c0@madico.com>
I dont buy any mp3 yet, just cd'S and sometime 12'', I buy between 4 and 10 cds a month Tho I sell mp3 on beatport.com and give free mp3 on our net label... Max - pertin-nce.com -----Message d'origine----- De : David @ Audiobulb [mailto:dwnewman@clara.co.uk] Envoyé : 24 octobre 2007 12:52 À : idm@hyperreal.org Objet : Re: [idm] who still buys CDs Hi Mark I buy 5-10 CDs per month The physical CD gives packaging to compliment the music and most importantly a higher quality audio - offering a more dynamic soundstage.... I'm an audiophile and mp3's just sound cheap to me.... When 16 bit or better comes online over the next it will be a different matter.... David ----- Original Message ----- From: "rednetic" <mark@rednetic.com> To: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 5:31 PM Subject: [idm] who still buys CDs
quoted 28 lines Hi> > Hi > Who still buys CDs? We are a small label that still sell CDs, but we are > also starting up paid for mp3 downloads. I have been thinking for a while > that the future will be limited vinyl and digital downloads for labels > such > as us and CDs will disappear all together. > > We currently give away free mp3s as a netlabel, as i have always had the > opinion that the quality isnt as good. I would be interested in peoples > thoughts. > > mark > rednetic recordings > http://www.rednetic.com www.rednetic.com > http://www.myspace.com/rednetic www.myspace.com/rednetic > -- > View this message in context: > http://www.nabble.com/who-still-buys-CDs-tf4684544.html#a13386412 > Sent from the IDM mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > >
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2007-10-24 17:03Shimone @ StaticBeatsI too buy a lot of CDs - 15-30 per month on average. I buy from Ear Rational, Amazon.com,
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Shimone @ StaticBeats
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Date:
Wed, 24 Oct 2007 10:03:36 -0700
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Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
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Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
permalink · <16945f3e0710241003s41817d1we05c03d11e5e851f@mail.gmail.com>
I too buy a lot of CDs - 15-30 per month on average. I buy from Ear Rational, Amazon.com, and Virgin Records primarily with occasional forays into label websites. My biggest complaint is that Digital Downloads have yet to incorporate high-quality full resolution artwork. I sent a message to Bleep requesting something bigger than the 64 x 64 pixel thumbnail they currently embed in the MP3 file but no love from them (something planned for the future they replied). I realize iTunes provides this but a) I don't use iTunes and b) not every new or obscure album is guaranteed to exist in their database. Personally I buy my CDs and immediately rip them to MP3. I also scan the cover artwork and embed it in the file with a backup BMP kept for added measure. I find something very rewarding about having a tangible product in your hands to appreciate and fondle. A long time ago I spent quite some time in the digital download arena ala SoulSeek, OiNK, newsgroups etc. but I found the quality varied wildly. I've downloaded from Bleep.com, free netlabels, and personal websites as well. Again, I found the quality varied widely in addition to the file naming schemes and ID3 tagging. I will mourn the demise of Compact Disc as a popular medium should that become a widespread reality. Long live the tangible! Shimone @ StaticBeats On 10/24/07, David @ Audiobulb <dwnewman@clara.co.uk> wrote:
quoted 54 lines Hi Mark> Hi Mark > > I buy 5-10 CDs per month > > The physical CD gives packaging to compliment the music and most importantly > a higher quality audio - offering a more dynamic soundstage.... > > I'm an audiophile and mp3's just sound cheap to me.... When 16 bit or better > comes online over the next it will be a different matter.... > > David > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "rednetic" <mark@rednetic.com> > To: <idm@hyperreal.org> > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 5:31 PM > Subject: [idm] who still buys CDs > > > > > > Hi > > Who still buys CDs? We are a small label that still sell CDs, but we are > > also starting up paid for mp3 downloads. I have been thinking for a while > > that the future will be limited vinyl and digital downloads for labels > > such > > as us and CDs will disappear all together. > > > > We currently give away free mp3s as a netlabel, as i have always had the > > opinion that the quality isnt as good. I would be interested in peoples > > thoughts. > > > > mark > > rednetic recordings > > http://www.rednetic.com www.rednetic.com > > http://www.myspace.com/rednetic www.myspace.com/rednetic > > -- > > View this message in context: > > http://www.nabble.com/who-still-buys-CDs-tf4684544.html#a13386412 > > Sent from the IDM mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >
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2007-10-24 17:40btallent@gmail.comSort of OT, but you should check out addictech.com for digital downloads. They offer every
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Wed, 24 Oct 2007 10:40:51 -0700
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Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
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Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
permalink · <1016696d0710241040q1c0f8a01q2198e57e0d8b2ce7@mail.gmail.com>
Sort of OT, but you should check out addictech.com for digital downloads. They offer every release in FLAC format, which is losslessly compressed to about half the size of the corresponding wave file. They also have a lot of smaller and obscure labels as well as independent releases from artists. On 10/24/07, Shimone @ StaticBeats <shimone@staticbeats.com> wrote:
quoted 89 lines I too buy a lot of CDs - 15-30 per month on average. I buy from Ear> I too buy a lot of CDs - 15-30 per month on average. I buy from Ear > Rational, Amazon.com, and Virgin Records primarily with occasional > forays into label websites. > > My biggest complaint is that Digital Downloads have yet to incorporate > high-quality full resolution artwork. I sent a message to Bleep > requesting something bigger than the 64 x 64 pixel thumbnail they > currently embed in the MP3 file but no love from them (something > planned for the future they replied). I realize iTunes provides this > but a) I don't use iTunes and b) not every new or obscure album is > guaranteed to exist in their database. > > Personally I buy my CDs and immediately rip them to MP3. I also scan > the cover artwork and embed it in the file with a backup BMP kept for > added measure. I find something very rewarding about having a tangible > product in your hands to appreciate and fondle. > > A long time ago I spent quite some time in the digital download arena > ala SoulSeek, OiNK, newsgroups etc. but I found the quality varied > wildly. I've downloaded from Bleep.com, free netlabels, and personal > websites as well. Again, I found the quality varied widely in addition > to the file naming schemes and ID3 tagging. > > I will mourn the demise of Compact Disc as a popular medium should > that become a widespread reality. Long live the tangible! > > Shimone @ StaticBeats > > On 10/24/07, David @ Audiobulb <dwnewman@clara.co.uk> wrote: > > Hi Mark > > > > I buy 5-10 CDs per month > > > > The physical CD gives packaging to compliment the music and most importantly > > a higher quality audio - offering a more dynamic soundstage.... > > > > I'm an audiophile and mp3's just sound cheap to me.... When 16 bit or better > > comes online over the next it will be a different matter.... > > > > David > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "rednetic" <mark@rednetic.com> > > To: <idm@hyperreal.org> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 5:31 PM > > Subject: [idm] who still buys CDs > > > > > > > > > > Hi > > > Who still buys CDs? We are a small label that still sell CDs, but we are > > > also starting up paid for mp3 downloads. I have been thinking for a while > > > that the future will be limited vinyl and digital downloads for labels > > > such > > > as us and CDs will disappear all together. > > > > > > We currently give away free mp3s as a netlabel, as i have always had the > > > opinion that the quality isnt as good. I would be interested in peoples > > > thoughts. > > > > > > mark > > > rednetic recordings > > > http://www.rednetic.com www.rednetic.com > > > http://www.myspace.com/rednetic www.myspace.com/rednetic > > > -- > > > View this message in context: > > > http://www.nabble.com/who-still-buys-CDs-tf4684544.html#a13386412 > > > Sent from the IDM mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >
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2007-10-24 18:05chthonici have never bought a digital release. the exception being the downloads that came with my
From:
chthonic
To:
idm
Date:
Wed, 24 Oct 2007 11:05:57 -0700
Subject:
Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
permalink · <200710241105.AA5244458@chthonicstreams.com>
i have never bought a digital release. the exception being the downloads that came with my purchase of the radiohead boxset. i'm not even bothering to download them, i'm waiting until i get the stuff in the mail. in the age of instant gratification (which i succumb to quite enough), there's something to be said for the excitement of anticipation. buying a physical release, opening the package, looking at the artwork, and actually paying attention to the music as it unfolds before you. i certainly don't have the time to do that every time i listen to something, but i prefer it to be my first impression of a work - and have the option to return to it if i want. more importantly, i hate the sound of mp3s. they aren't the final product of the mixdown/mastering, they're an intentionally downgraded compromise to speed up transmission and save on storage space. the sad truth, i believe, is that compression technology got further than storage or transmission technology. if the average internet connection were a T1 and we had high-capacity flash memory back in the late 90's, the mp3 format wouldn't have been necessary. there are players on the market that play uncompressed formats, but they don't have the marketing muscle or the drive capacity of the ipod. and most digital downloads are mp3s. and no one has (yet) come up with a self-contained audio/visual file format which would be high-quality sound with access to, say, plain text lyrics and credits, static images to go with the song, or even a full video, which could be switched back and forth by the listener/viewer. in the meantime, i'll probably keep buying CDs as long as they're made. i agree that shipping from outside your own country sucks and adds both time and cost, but them's the breaks until someone builds a real-life transporter. in fact, i'm now going to listen to the VEX'D album 'degenerate' which came in a slipcase with a bonus second CD i wasn't even expecting. d.
quoted 17 lines rednetic wrote:>rednetic wrote: >> Hi >> Who still buys CDs? We are a small label that still sell CDs, but we are >> also starting up paid for mp3 downloads. I have been thinking for a while >> that the future will be limited vinyl and digital downloads for labels such >> as us and CDs will disappear all together. >> >> We currently give away free mp3s as a netlabel, as i have always had the >> opinion that the quality isnt as good. I would be interested in peoples >> thoughts. >> >> mark >> rednetic recordings >> http://www.rednetic.com www.rednetic.com >> http://www.myspace.com/rednetic www.myspace.com/rednetic > >--------------------------------------------------------------------
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2007-10-24 20:07John Goelzer> there are players on the market that > play uncompressed formats, but they > don't have
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John Goelzer
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idm
Date:
Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:07:30 -0500
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RE: [idm] who still buys CDs
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Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
permalink · <5A83CF3C8E7AD7448CB282B0C0BA2B2601ECF812@ea2.eadp.com>
quoted 5 lines there are players on the market that> there are players on the market that > play uncompressed formats, but they > don't have the marketing muscle or the > drive capacity of the ipod. > and most digital downloads are mp3s.
I am neither disagreeing with your preference for physical media nor banging the drum for digital releases, but I would like to point out for the benefit of anyone following this discussion that iPods can play not only AACs ripped to Apple Lossless Format but also regular old WAVs and AIFFs if that's your preference. JG --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2007-10-24 20:38michael dunhamI'm a local dj / producer in my home town and have moved to Serato Scratch and Ableton Liv
From:
michael dunham
To:
John Goelzer , idm
Date:
Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:38:23 -0400
Subject:
RE: [idm] who still buys CDs
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RE: [idm] who still buys CDs
permalink · <BLU108-W1600E36C17F9802C00B1CEB3940@phx.gbl>
I'm a local dj / producer in my home town and have moved to Serato Scratch and Ableton Live in my dj sets rather than luggin around a ton of records and cd's. Scratch LIVE supports all these file formats: Fixed and Variable Bit Rate MP3, AIFF, WAV, OGG Vorbis, CD Audio. Another great thing is the relative mode of play that is great. If a random drunk person hits the booth the record doesn't skip, it just continues on from where it was(virtually never missing a beat). I personally can't notice if the file is 320 kbs the difference between a cd, record yes, sometines. If a file gets any lower than 128kbs the songs sounds like crap IMO. 128 is the very minimum I will play if I cant get the file in any other format. IMO the recording and mix down / mastering quality are extremely important too. I've received 320 kbs files that sucked completely, but on the other hand I have bought 128 files that sounded so rich and clear. Also getting digital files from other dj's that produce enables you to get a track before (if it ever) it's released. Beatport, 3 beat, & Stompy are where I buy most my EDM. A bit more expensive ranging between a dollar fifty and two pounds 35 pence each track, but worth every penny. just my .02 peace 'n beats, michael > Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:07:30 -0500> From: johng@engberganderson.com> To: idm@hyperreal.org> Subject: RE: [idm] who still buys CDs> > > there are players on the market that> > play uncompressed formats, but they> > don't have the marketing muscle or the> > drive capacity of the ipod.> > and most digital downloads are mp3s.> > I am neither disagreeing with your preference for physical media nor> banging the drum for digital releases, but I would like to point out for> the benefit of anyone following this discussion that iPods can play not> only AACs ripped to Apple Lossless Format but also regular old WAVs and> AIFFs if that's your preference.> > JG> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------> To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org> For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org> _________________________________________________________________ Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us
2007-10-24 21:58Edwin Wonghello. i buy quite a bit of music - maybe 25+ vinyl/cds a month... i listen to a lot of mu
From:
Edwin Wong
To:
'michael dunham' , 'idm'
Date:
Wed, 24 Oct 2007 17:58:18 -0400
Subject:
RE: [idm] who still buys CDs
Reply to:
RE: [idm] who still buys CDs
hello. i buy quite a bit of music - maybe 25+ vinyl/cds a month... i listen to a lot of music on my soundsystem at home and my iPod at work +i dj as well. i'd consider myself a spotter/audiophile before dj, so with that - if its in print, i'll buy originals... i have bought a pair of out of print alden tyrell 12"s on iTunes, but thats it. the cost is what turns me away - for 7gbp (boomkat), i need something tangible. when i buy records, i record them to audio discs and mp3s myself... bye e. -----Original Message----- From: michael dunham [mailto:dphouse84@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 4:38 PM To: John Goelzer; idm Subject: RE: [idm] who still buys CDs I'm a local dj / producer in my home town and have moved to Serato Scratch and Ableton Live in my dj sets rather than luggin around a ton of records and cd's. Scratch LIVE supports all these file formats: Fixed and Variable Bit Rate MP3, AIFF, WAV, OGG Vorbis, CD Audio. Another great thing is the relative mode of play that is great. If a random drunk person hits the booth the record doesn't skip, it just continues on from where it was(virtually never missing a beat). I personally can't notice if the file is 320 kbs the difference between a cd, record yes, sometines. If a file gets any lower than 128kbs the songs sounds like crap IMO. 128 is the very minimum I will play if I cant get the file in any other format. IMO the recording and mix down / mastering quality are extremely important too. I've received 320 kbs files that sucked completely, but on the other hand I have bought 128 files that sounded so rich and clear. Also getting digital files from other dj's that produce enables you to get a track before (if it ever) it's released. Beatport, 3 beat, & Stompy are where I buy most my EDM. A bit more expensive ranging between a dollar fifty and two pounds 35 pence each track, but worth every penny. just my .02 peace 'n beats, michael > Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:07:30 -0500> From: johng@engberganderson.com> To: idm@hyperreal.org> Subject: RE: [idm] who still buys CDs> > > there are players on the market that> > play uncompressed formats, but they> > don't have the marketing muscle or the> > drive capacity of the ipod.> > and most digital downloads are mp3s.> > I am neither disagreeing with your preference for physical media nor> banging the drum for digital releases, but I would like to point out for> the benefit of anyone following this discussion that iPods can play not> only AACs ripped to Apple Lossless Format but also regular old WAVs and> AIFFs if that's your preference.> > JG> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------> To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org> For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org> _________________________________________________________________ Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2007-10-24 22:52Shimone @ StaticBeatsyes Edwin - another good point. Digital Goods need to be priced *way* below the cost of ph
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Shimone @ StaticBeats
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idm list
Date:
Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:52:14 -0700
Subject:
Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
permalink · <16945f3e0710241552s20edda4p91fcbc6f9d41882e@mail.gmail.com>
yes Edwin - another good point. Digital Goods need to be priced *way* below the cost of physical goods. One example is hiphopsite.com who recently converted to an all-digital store. The prices of their digital releases however are only a dollar or 2 cheaper (and sometimes the same price) of what I can purchase them for in physical form elsewhere. They're trying their best by doing bonuses, limited releases and promotions but still - $13 for an album I don't get to hold?? For a couple bucks more I'd gladly take the physical good. Shimone @ Staticbeats On 10/24/07, Edwin Wong <ewong@unrecognized.org> wrote:
quoted 71 lines hello.> > hello. > > i buy quite a bit of music - maybe 25+ vinyl/cds a month... i listen to a > lot of music on my soundsystem at home and my iPod at work +i dj as well. > i'd consider myself a spotter/audiophile before dj, so with that - if its in > print, i'll buy originals... i have bought a pair of out of print alden > tyrell 12"s on iTunes, but thats it. the cost is what turns me away - for > 7gbp (boomkat), i need something tangible. when i buy records, i record them > to audio discs and mp3s myself... > > bye > > e. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: michael dunham [mailto:dphouse84@hotmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 4:38 PM > To: John Goelzer; idm > Subject: RE: [idm] who still buys CDs > > > I'm a local dj / producer in my home town and have moved to Serato Scratch > and Ableton Live in my dj sets rather than luggin around a ton of records > and cd's. Scratch LIVE supports all these file formats: Fixed and Variable > Bit Rate MP3, AIFF, WAV, OGG Vorbis, CD Audio. > > Another great thing is the relative mode of play that is great. If a random > drunk person hits the booth the record doesn't skip, it just continues on > from where it was(virtually never missing a beat). I personally can't > notice if the file is 320 kbs the difference between a cd, record yes, > sometines. If a file gets any lower than 128kbs the songs sounds like crap > IMO. 128 is the very minimum I will play if I cant get the file in any > other format. > > IMO the recording and mix down / mastering quality are extremely important > too. I've received 320 kbs files that sucked completely, but on the other > hand I have bought 128 files that sounded so rich and clear. Also getting > digital files from other dj's that produce enables you to get a track before > (if it ever) it's released. Beatport, 3 beat, & Stompy are where I buy > most my EDM. A bit more expensive ranging between a dollar fifty and two > pounds 35 pence each track, but worth every penny. just my .02 > > peace 'n beats, > > michael > Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:07:30 -0500> From: > johng@engberganderson.com> To: idm@hyperreal.org> Subject: RE: [idm] who > still buys CDs> > > there are players on the market that> > play > uncompressed formats, but they> > don't have the marketing muscle or the> > > drive capacity of the ipod.> > and most digital downloads are mp3s.> > I am > neither disagreeing with your preference for physical media nor> banging the > drum for digital releases, but I would like to point out for> the benefit of > anyone following this discussion that iPods can play not> only AACs ripped > to Apple Lossless Format but also regular old WAVs and> AIFFs if that's your > preference.> > JG> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------> To > unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org> For additional commands, > e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org> > _________________________________________________________________ > Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You! > http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >
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2007-10-24 23:09mantrakidIt's been touched on in the way of "Hi Res Album Art" etc, but are there other things one
From:
mantrakid
To:
Date:
Wed, 24 Oct 2007 17:09:38 -0600
Subject:
RE: [idm] who still buys CDs
Reply to:
Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
permalink · <03ab01c81692$f3c290f0$db47b2d0$@com>
It's been touched on in the way of "Hi Res Album Art" etc, but are there other things one can offer when dealing strictly within a digital realm that would add value to an entirely digital album release? It seems the stigma is that things obtained digitally for free or for low costs have little value because of the lack of work that was required to obtain them. Radioheads album 'leak' definitely had me excited because I had a chance to download their latest stuff, but in all honesty, it was kinda disappointed after the fact because that was it... once i listened to it, it felt like just another handful of mp3's id come across. I used to download SNES roms all the time, and to be honest, with the multitudes of games that I'd collect, i had probably only played a handful, and even those, Id easily lose my attention span because either there were thousands more to try out, or else it just wasn't real... Then i whipped out my SNES console and would play the games start to finish just like the old days... it felt more tangible to be holding an actual snes controller, getting proper snes slowdown in the right places, being able to crack open an instruction manual just to look at the illustrations, and knowing that this is the real deal. All that being said - there HAS to be some way to add an actual VALUE to the stuff someone purchases online, or even gets for free - something that gives them MORE than just something to stuff on their ipod... What if with the downloads, you also get exclusive high quality wallpapers/backgrounds for your OS. High res scans of some neat looking polaroids, some icons to use on your desktop, maybe a nicely designed PDF album cover. Something you can throw on your PDA and flip through, or even just flip through on your screen. You know what I'm saying tho? Essentially something - even though entirely within a digital realm - that customers/fans can actually *explore* when they have their purchase. The problem with free/pay MP3's is that we all know how fucking easy it is to offer our shit for free. Because it's so easy, and that we see that there's nothing more to it, it's simple to see how the package can be deemed as sub-par.. because there truly is little effort in offering music up in that medium, as well, theres little to no effort in actually acquiring it. Sure the music speaks for itself but until that first MP3 gets played, the process and product look almost EXACTLY the same for every transaction... Mantrakid (download my free mp3 album from www.neferiu.com!!!) har har. -----Original Message----- From: shimone@gmail.com [mailto:shimone@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Shimone @ StaticBeats Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 4:52 PM To: idm list Subject: Re: [idm] who still buys CDs yes Edwin - another good point. Digital Goods need to be priced *way* below the cost of physical goods. One example is hiphopsite.com who recently converted to an all-digital store. The prices of their digital releases however are only a dollar or 2 cheaper (and sometimes the same price) of what I can purchase them for in physical form elsewhere. They're trying their best by doing bonuses, limited releases and promotions but still - $13 for an album I don't get to hold?? For a couple bucks more I'd gladly take the physical good. Shimone @ Staticbeats On 10/24/07, Edwin Wong <ewong@unrecognized.org> wrote:
quoted 6 lines hello.> > hello. > > i buy quite a bit of music - maybe 25+ vinyl/cds a month... i listen to a > lot of music on my soundsystem at home and my iPod at work +i dj as well. > i'd consider myself a spotter/audiophile before dj, so with that - if its
in
quoted 3 lines print, i'll buy originals... i have bought a pair of out of print alden> print, i'll buy originals... i have bought a pair of out of print alden > tyrell 12"s on iTunes, but thats it. the cost is what turns me away - for > 7gbp (boomkat), i need something tangible. when i buy records, i record
them
quoted 18 lines to audio discs and mp3s myself...> to audio discs and mp3s myself... > > bye > > e. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: michael dunham [mailto:dphouse84@hotmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 4:38 PM > To: John Goelzer; idm > Subject: RE: [idm] who still buys CDs > > > I'm a local dj / producer in my home town and have moved to Serato Scratch > and Ableton Live in my dj sets rather than luggin around a ton of records > and cd's. Scratch LIVE supports all these file formats: Fixed and
Variable
quoted 3 lines Bit Rate MP3, AIFF, WAV, OGG Vorbis, CD Audio.> Bit Rate MP3, AIFF, WAV, OGG Vorbis, CD Audio. > > Another great thing is the relative mode of play that is great. If a
random
quoted 4 lines drunk person hits the booth the record doesn't skip, it just continues on> drunk person hits the booth the record doesn't skip, it just continues on > from where it was(virtually never missing a beat). I personally can't > notice if the file is 320 kbs the difference between a cd, record yes, > sometines. If a file gets any lower than 128kbs the songs sounds like
crap
quoted 7 lines IMO. 128 is the very minimum I will play if I cant get the file in any> IMO. 128 is the very minimum I will play if I cant get the file in any > other format. > > IMO the recording and mix down / mastering quality are extremely important > too. I've received 320 kbs files that sucked completely, but on the other > hand I have bought 128 files that sounded so rich and clear. Also getting > digital files from other dj's that produce enables you to get a track
before
quoted 12 lines (if it ever) it's released. Beatport, 3 beat, & Stompy are where I buy> (if it ever) it's released. Beatport, 3 beat, & Stompy are where I buy > most my EDM. A bit more expensive ranging between a dollar fifty and two > pounds 35 pence each track, but worth every penny. just my .02 > > peace 'n beats, > > michael > Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:07:30 -0500> From: > johng@engberganderson.com> To: idm@hyperreal.org> Subject: RE: [idm] who > still buys CDs> > > there are players on the market that> > play > uncompressed formats, but they> > don't have the marketing muscle or the> > > drive capacity of the ipod.> > and most digital downloads are mp3s.> > I
am
quoted 1 line neither disagreeing with your preference for physical media nor> banging> neither disagreeing with your preference for physical media nor> banging
the
quoted 1 line drum for digital releases, but I would like to point out for> the benefit> drum for digital releases, but I would like to point out for> the benefit
of
quoted 2 lines anyone following this discussion that iPods can play not> only AACs ripped> anyone following this discussion that iPods can play not> only AACs ripped > to Apple Lossless Format but also regular old WAVs and> AIFFs if that's
your
quoted 3 lines preference.> > JG> >> preference.> > JG> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------> To > unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org> For additional
commands,
quoted 12 lines e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org>> e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org> > _________________________________________________________________ > Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You! > http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >
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2007-10-24 23:46theREALmxyzptlkThey're trying their best by doing bonuses, limited > releases and promotions but still -
From:
theREALmxyzptlk
To:
Shimone @ StaticBeats
Cc:
idm list
Date:
Wed, 24 Oct 2007 19:46:03 -0400
Subject:
Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
Reply to:
Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
permalink · <471FD93B.7090509@comcast.net>
They're trying their best by doing bonuses, limited
quoted 3 lines releases and promotions but still - $13 for an album I don't get to> releases and promotions but still - $13 for an album I don't get to > hold?? For a couple bucks more I'd gladly take the physical good. >
Yes indeedy. Don't look now, but that option is already fading into the past. It's just not cost effective to release 'full-production' CDs in most cases. I'd bet that those limited run cdrs and downloads are going to be the only options very soon. Vinyl will hang in there as long as possible, but in this little corner of the music industry, CDs are pretty much already in the coffin and waiting for the eulogy. jeff --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2007-10-24 23:59Shimone @ StaticBeatsSeriously Jeff? I'm still buying electronic music on CD by the bucketload. I get new mailo
From:
Shimone @ StaticBeats
To:
idm list
Date:
Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:59:47 -0700
Subject:
Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
Reply to:
Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
permalink · <16945f3e0710241659m6b0c93c2i1fed76de0b4f0897@mail.gmail.com>
Seriously Jeff? I'm still buying electronic music on CD by the bucketload. I get new mailouts lists every week and each time there are new releases on the list. I see no indication that CDs are going out of style. What are you basing this on? Shimone @ StaticBeats On 10/24/07, theREALmxyzptlk <theREALmxyzptlk@comcast.net> wrote:
quoted 14 lines They're trying their best by doing bonuses, limited> They're trying their best by doing bonuses, limited > > releases and promotions but still - $13 for an album I don't get to > > hold?? For a couple bucks more I'd gladly take the physical good. > > > > Yes indeedy. Don't look now, but that option is already fading into the > past. It's just not cost effective to release 'full-production' CDs in > most cases. I'd bet that those limited run cdrs and downloads are going > to be the only options very soon. > Vinyl will hang in there as long as possible, but in this little corner > of the music industry, CDs are pretty much already in the coffin and > waiting for the eulogy. > > jeff
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2007-10-25 01:02theREALmxyzptlkShimone @ StaticBeats wrote: > Seriously Jeff? I'm still buying electronic music on CD by
From:
theREALmxyzptlk
To:
Shimone @ StaticBeats
Cc:
idm list
Date:
Wed, 24 Oct 2007 21:02:02 -0400
Subject:
Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
Reply to:
Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
permalink · <471FEB0A.1080506@comcast.net>
Shimone @ StaticBeats wrote:
quoted 5 lines Seriously Jeff? I'm still buying electronic music on CD by the> Seriously Jeff? I'm still buying electronic music on CD by the > bucketload. I get new mailouts lists every week and each time there > are new releases on the list. I see no indication that CDs are going > out of style. What are you basing this on? >
Although I have slowed down (an economic necessity since I've retired), the amount of CD releases has dwindled by quite an amazing number (I'm talking idm/techno/ambient) over the past few years. It used to be the case that I couldn't possibly grab all I wanted; that changed radically over the past year. There just aren't nearly as many released. I'm not sure if you've followed my path via what I used to sell on eBay, but I was buying at least 20 a week (plus vinyls) for a long, long time. I still have thousands in the racks (although most of those are ancient and not idm-ish type releases. I'm not trying to set myself up as an authority, but chances are pretty good that I know that market better than 99% of the listees - and I know there are some astute buyers out there. Not that I have money, either - I'm just not fiscally responsible! It's a waste of time trying to 'prove' this, but if you were to ask any of my friends who really know me and my habits, no matter what else they think of me, they'll all tell you I know what is and is not out there. I'm not sure what you call a 'bucketload', but if you weren't dropping between $300-400 PER WEEK on music, your bucket is considerably smaller than mine. NOW you might understand why I was always selling things on eBay! ;-) jeff ps fnck eBay! --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2007-10-25 04:02jason parent> Hi > Who still buys CDs? We are a small label that still sell CDs, but we are > also sta
From:
jason parent
To:
Date:
Thu, 25 Oct 2007 00:02:56 -0400
Subject:
Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
permalink · <011801c816bb$ed048150$6400a8c0@JCW2YYGLTYXADS>
quoted 3 lines Hi> Hi > Who still buys CDs? We are a small label that still sell CDs, but we are > also starting up paid for mp3 downloads.
i'm sorry, but mp3s sound terrible. i have never paid a dime for one and never will; i'll be sticking with cds and dvd audio until they pry the physical media from my dead hands. answer the question? j --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2007-10-25 04:44Digital::NimbusThis topic leads me to point out a recent article we published at igloomag.com: FROM CUSTO
From:
Digital::Nimbus
To:
Date:
Wed, 24 Oct 2007 21:44:46 -0700
Subject:
[idm] Re: who still buys CDs
permalink · <6b643e730710242144h53c03750x4e89766bb8ca39dc@mail.gmail.com>
This topic leads me to point out a recent article we published at igloomag.com: FROM CUSTOMER TO PIRATE :: Turning customers into enemies http://igloomag.com/doc.php?task=view&id=1628&category=features Personally, i prefer the physical medium.. CD/vinyl over mp3's but lately it has been a little TOO much to lug vinyl and CD's to our radio station to produce a weekly 3-hr broadcast when i can simply 'laptop it' with mp3's i've ripped from discs in my collection. I'm just trying to make my life easier, and i'm still supporting the physical medium as long as possible.. i always enjoy pulling out a release and dropping it into a player rather than sifting through digital folders.. I'm stuck in between physical and digital, really. -- Pietro Da Sacco Igloo Magazine (Managing Editor) :: igloomag.com Digital::Nimbus (Radio Host) :: digitalnimbus.com PO Box 307, Corona CA. 92878 USA --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2007-10-25 15:11Rusty Hodge> I'm stuck in between physical and digital, really. I'm pretty much the same way. I prefe
From:
Rusty Hodge
To:
Digital::Nimbus
Cc:
Date:
Thu, 25 Oct 2007 08:11:56 -0700
Subject:
Re: [idm] Re: who still buys CDs
Reply to:
[idm] Re: who still buys CDs
permalink · <28B8A221-E83C-44C1-8AED-D6F6509CBF4F@hodge.com>
quoted 1 line I'm stuck in between physical and digital, really.> I'm stuck in between physical and digital, really.
I'm pretty much the same way. I prefer physical media - at a minimum it's a good, proven archive format. And while I rip everything that I buy, I'm just not that interested in buying MP3s.. with the exception of something that I really want that is pretty much impossible to find anymore. MP3s are really convenient, and high bitrate ones sound decent to my ears most of the time, but I still like to have the CD media. Lugging a laptop to a gig is far easier than bringing a case of records or CDs. Plus, I don't have to worry about losing the CDs -- which has happened to me at one gig when someone snagged a binder of CDs from me when I wasn't paying attention. :-( Rusty/SomaFM --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2007-10-25 19:12EnquiriesSorry if I've mentioned this before on here, but you might want to check out the website I
From:
Enquiries
To:
idm list
Date:
Thu, 25 Oct 2007 20:12:59 +0100
Subject:
Re: [idm] Re: who still buys CDs
Reply to:
Re: [idm] Re: who still buys CDs
permalink · <C346A94B.22FA5%enquiries@eleventhvolume.com>
Sorry if I've mentioned this before on here, but you might want to check out the website I run with 300dpi: http://www.hardformat.org. It's dedicated to great music-related design and thus pretty relevant to the discussion. Hope you like it. All the best, Colin. http://www.eleventhvolume.com http://www.hardformat.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2007-10-26 05:18jason parent> The claim that mp3 quality sucks is bogus imo. > If the bitrate is at the maximum (320kb
From:
jason parent
To:
Date:
Fri, 26 Oct 2007 01:18:03 -0400
Subject:
Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
permalink · <014101c8178f$95e9f880$6400a8c0@JCW2YYGLTYXADS>
quoted 3 lines The claim that mp3 quality sucks is bogus imo.> The claim that mp3 quality sucks is bogus imo. > If the bitrate is at the maximum (320kbps), you won't hear the difference > with the original CD.
there are a number of factors. listen to "wish you were here" by pink floyd on a 320 kbps mp3 played through a set of tannoys or kefs or other good quality speakers at a high volume, coming from a high powered receiver and tell me it sounds the same as a cd does, if the cd player has high quality DACs. i picked that record because everybody knows what it's SUPPOSED to sound like, and because the range is very wide. you'll hear major differences in the low end and in the high end. even the mix comes out funny. you could do the experiment with lots of different stuff. i heard a major difference in thom yorke's solo album, as well as the latest nine inch nails record [which i was previewing as downloads before i picked them up, as i was skeptical about the end quality of both of them]. even the last tool album [which was a weak record] had major reproduction problems on the low end. however, if you're listening to the new spice girls record through a pair of tinny headphones coming out of a portable device, i would agree that it's unlikely to make much of a difference, but i personally can't stand to do something like that. the last time i tried to listen to something coming out of the headphone out on my cell phone was a john zorn record, and it sounded so awful i haven't even bothered using the mp3 player in it since... meaning the following: casual users will probably migrate to mp3s due to convenience. cds didn't kill records because they were cheaper to make or because the sound quality is "technically better" (let's not get into a cd vs. record argument because unlike the cd vs. mp3 argument, the cd vs. record argument is purely subjective and depends not on reproductive ability but personal taste), it was because you can skip tracks on a cd and you can't do that on a record. likewise, mp3s will prevail for casual users and those who enjoy the convenience. but, serious audio geeks can immediately tell the difference and will drop cds in favour of dvds; they didn't drop thousands into their sound systems to use compressed files as a sound source. ....meaning that, i guess, cds are pretty much dying. but the future is in dvd audio, not mp3s. reminds me of the cassette vs. cd wars in the 80s. j --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2007-10-26 08:06David William NewmanYes but the point is that alot of mp3s are sold at below 320kbps jason parent writes: > >>
From:
David William Newman
To:
jason parent
Cc:
Date:
Fri, 26 Oct 2007 09:06:03 +0100
Subject:
[idm] Re: who still buys CDs
Reply to:
Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
permalink · <E1IlKCh-0003zO-MQ@oceanus.uk.clara.net>
Yes but the point is that alot of mp3s are sold at below 320kbps jason parent writes:
quoted 58 lines The claim that mp3 quality sucks is bogus imo.> >> The claim that mp3 quality sucks is bogus imo. >> If the bitrate is at the maximum (320kbps), you won't hear the difference >> with the original CD. > > there are a number of factors. > > listen to "wish you were here" by pink floyd on a 320 kbps mp3 played > through a set of tannoys or kefs or other good quality speakers at a high > volume, coming from a high powered receiver and tell me it sounds the same > as a cd does, if the cd player has high quality DACs. i picked that record > because everybody knows what it's SUPPOSED to sound like, and because the > range is very wide. > > you'll hear major differences in the low end and in the high end. even the > mix comes out funny. > > you could do the experiment with lots of different stuff. i heard a major > difference in thom yorke's solo album, as well as the latest nine inch > nails record [which i was previewing as downloads before i picked them up, > as i was skeptical about the end quality of both of them]. even the last > tool album [which was a weak record] had major reproduction problems on > the low end. > > however, if you're listening to the new spice girls record through a pair > of tinny headphones coming out of a portable device, i would agree that > it's unlikely to make much of a difference, but i personally can't stand > to do something like that. the last time i tried to listen to something > coming out of the headphone out on my cell phone was a john zorn record, > and it sounded so awful i haven't even bothered using the mp3 player in it > since... > > meaning the following: casual users will probably migrate to mp3s due to > convenience. cds didn't kill records because they were cheaper to make or > because the sound quality is "technically better" (let's not get into a cd > vs. record argument because unlike the cd vs. mp3 argument, the cd vs. > record argument is purely subjective and depends not on reproductive > ability but personal taste), it was because you can skip tracks on a cd > and you can't do that on a record. likewise, mp3s will prevail for casual > users and those who enjoy the convenience. > > but, serious audio geeks can immediately tell the difference and will drop > cds in favour of dvds; they didn't drop thousands into their sound systems > to use compressed files as a sound source. > > ....meaning that, i guess, cds are pretty much dying. but the future is in > dvd audio, not mp3s. > > reminds me of the cassette vs. cd wars in the 80s. > > j > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >
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2007-10-26 09:12Esa Ruohowhat cheeses me off about all of this is that i was going to put my new ep on OiNK as 320k
From:
Esa Ruoho
To:
idm@hyperreal.org
Date:
Fri, 26 Oct 2007 11:12:32 +0200
Subject:
Re: [idm] Re: who still buys CDs
Reply to:
[idm] Re: who still buys CDs
permalink · <538fa8f10710260212kd8a01b7qc762b5ea1221d08@mail.gmail.com>
what cheeses me off about all of this is that i was going to put my new ep on OiNK as 320kbps mp3s and try and see if doing that would mean more people would link to my shop and purchase the physical item. and then the whole thing got shut down. fancy that! On 26/10/2007, David William Newman <dwnewman@clara.co.uk> wrote:
quoted 89 lines Yes but the point is that alot of mp3s are sold at below 320kbps> > Yes but the point is that alot of mp3s are sold at below 320kbps > > > > jason parent writes: > > > > >> The claim that mp3 quality sucks is bogus imo. > >> If the bitrate is at the maximum (320kbps), you won't hear the > difference > >> with the original CD. > > > > there are a number of factors. > > > > listen to "wish you were here" by pink floyd on a 320 kbps mp3 played > > through a set of tannoys or kefs or other good quality speakers at a > high > > volume, coming from a high powered receiver and tell me it sounds the > same > > as a cd does, if the cd player has high quality DACs. i picked that > record > > because everybody knows what it's SUPPOSED to sound like, and because > the > > range is very wide. > > > > you'll hear major differences in the low end and in the high end. even > the > > mix comes out funny. > > > > you could do the experiment with lots of different stuff. i heard a > major > > difference in thom yorke's solo album, as well as the latest nine inch > > nails record [which i was previewing as downloads before i picked them > up, > > as i was skeptical about the end quality of both of them]. even the last > > tool album [which was a weak record] had major reproduction problems on > > the low end. > > > > however, if you're listening to the new spice girls record through a > pair > > of tinny headphones coming out of a portable device, i would agree that > > it's unlikely to make much of a difference, but i personally can't stand > > to do something like that. the last time i tried to listen to something > > coming out of the headphone out on my cell phone was a john zorn record, > > and it sounded so awful i haven't even bothered using the mp3 player in > it > > since... > > > > meaning the following: casual users will probably migrate to mp3s due to > > convenience. cds didn't kill records because they were cheaper to make > or > > because the sound quality is "technically better" (let's not get into a > cd > > vs. record argument because unlike the cd vs. mp3 argument, the cd vs. > > record argument is purely subjective and depends not on reproductive > > ability but personal taste), it was because you can skip tracks on a cd > > and you can't do that on a record. likewise, mp3s will prevail for > casual > > users and those who enjoy the convenience. > > > > but, serious audio geeks can immediately tell the difference and will > drop > > cds in favour of dvds; they didn't drop thousands into their sound > systems > > to use compressed files as a sound source. > > > > ....meaning that, i guess, cds are pretty much dying. but the future is > in > > dvd audio, not mp3s. > > > > reminds me of the cassette vs. cd wars in the 80s. > > > > j > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >
-- ∞
2007-10-26 10:09F.Enmarkyes i still buy CDs, not in a massive amount but 5-6 a month. i used to use oink obsessive
From:
F.Enmark
To:
Esa Ruoho
Cc:
idm@hyperreal.org
Date:
Fri, 26 Oct 2007 12:09:49 +0200
Subject:
Re: [idm] Re: who still buys CDs
Reply to:
Re: [idm] Re: who still buys CDs
permalink · <ab7ffdcd0710260309n535feb7ai37b41231dfa5baa0@mail.gmail.com>
yes i still buy CDs, not in a massive amount but 5-6 a month. i used to use oink obsessively though and download lots and lots of stuff and then i go out and buy what i like from my local shop. i have no problem whatsoever to listen to good quality mp3 (320, v0 etc), i would never ever use something like FLAC, bullshit format imo, cannot be used in itunes or ipod - a pretty important factor since i don't know a lot of people who doesn't own an ipod. i listen to music on the ipod through a couple of porta pro's, or in my home through a regular not fancy denon/kenton setup, so the weakest link is still the output. i wouldn't mind at all buying mp3s (ive bought some on itunes), but i don't want DRM (in fact my drm-buying days are over), and i dont have time to go to each label to get their stuff, i want one place that holds everything (like oink did, or like the local store i go to holds pretty much everything i want). and i need them to be available for download an infinate amount of times, if i delete the file, or my HD crashes. the physical CDs are basically working as backup for me, so i can return to them if my files get lost somehow. i only purchase vinyl if the release isn't available on CD, and when i buy my CDs i mainly rip it down to the computer, and put the box in the shelf after having looked at it for five minutes.. then i don't ever use the CD again really the demise of oink will have an enormous impact in my musical imput, now i have to find new sources of listening to new music, and what it probably eventually will result in, is basically that i will buy less records, not more... On 10/26/07, Esa Ruoho <esaruoho@gmail.com> wrote:
quoted 101 lines what cheeses me off about all of this is that i was going to put my new ep> what cheeses me off about all of this is that i was going to put my new ep > on OiNK as 320kbps mp3s and try and see if doing that would mean more > people would link to my shop and purchase the physical item. and then the > whole thing got shut down. fancy that! > > > On 26/10/2007, David William Newman <dwnewman@clara.co.uk> wrote: > > > > Yes but the point is that alot of mp3s are sold at below 320kbps > > > > > > > > jason parent writes: > > > > > > > >> The claim that mp3 quality sucks is bogus imo. > > >> If the bitrate is at the maximum (320kbps), you won't hear the > > difference > > >> with the original CD. > > > > > > there are a number of factors. > > > > > > listen to "wish you were here" by pink floyd on a 320 kbps mp3 played > > > through a set of tannoys or kefs or other good quality speakers at a > > high > > > volume, coming from a high powered receiver and tell me it sounds the > > same > > > as a cd does, if the cd player has high quality DACs. i picked that > > record > > > because everybody knows what it's SUPPOSED to sound like, and because > > the > > > range is very wide. > > > > > > you'll hear major differences in the low end and in the high end. even > > the > > > mix comes out funny. > > > > > > you could do the experiment with lots of different stuff. i heard a > > major > > > difference in thom yorke's solo album, as well as the latest nine inch > > > nails record [which i was previewing as downloads before i picked them > > up, > > > as i was skeptical about the end quality of both of them]. even the last > > > tool album [which was a weak record] had major reproduction problems on > > > the low end. > > > > > > however, if you're listening to the new spice girls record through a > > pair > > > of tinny headphones coming out of a portable device, i would agree that > > > it's unlikely to make much of a difference, but i personally can't stand > > > to do something like that. the last time i tried to listen to something > > > coming out of the headphone out on my cell phone was a john zorn record, > > > and it sounded so awful i haven't even bothered using the mp3 player in > > it > > > since... > > > > > > meaning the following: casual users will probably migrate to mp3s due to > > > convenience. cds didn't kill records because they were cheaper to make > > or > > > because the sound quality is "technically better" (let's not get into a > > cd > > > vs. record argument because unlike the cd vs. mp3 argument, the cd vs. > > > record argument is purely subjective and depends not on reproductive > > > ability but personal taste), it was because you can skip tracks on a cd > > > and you can't do that on a record. likewise, mp3s will prevail for > > casual > > > users and those who enjoy the convenience. > > > > > > but, serious audio geeks can immediately tell the difference and will > > drop > > > cds in favour of dvds; they didn't drop thousands into their sound > > systems > > > to use compressed files as a sound source. > > > > > > ....meaning that, i guess, cds are pretty much dying. but the future is > > in > > > dvd audio, not mp3s. > > > > > > reminds me of the cassette vs. cd wars in the 80s. > > > > > > j > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > > > -- > ∞ >
-- fenmark@gmail.com http://www.french.se/portfolio http://www.french.se/plod --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2007-10-26 10:16Kurt PruennerF.Enmark wrote: > i have no problem whatsoever to listen to good quality > mp3 (320, v0 et
From:
Kurt Pruenner
To:
Sounds Made By A Dying DSP
Date:
Fri, 26 Oct 2007 12:16:21 +0200
Subject:
Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
Reply to:
Re: [idm] Re: who still buys CDs
permalink · <4721BE75.5030209@gmx.at>
F.Enmark wrote:
quoted 5 lines i have no problem whatsoever to listen to good quality> i have no problem whatsoever to listen to good quality > mp3 (320, v0 etc), i would never ever use something like FLAC, > bullshit format imo, cannot be used in itunes or ipod - a pretty > important factor since i don't know a lot of people who doesn't > own an ipod.
Wait - you have no problem encoding your own MP3s from a CD, but think FLAC (which is exactly the same quality as CD, namely lossless) is a "bullshit format" because it doesn't work right out of the box on an iPod (exactly like, say, a CD), because *snare rush* you'd have to re-encode it to MP3 first, again exactly like you would with a CD? That's... strange, to say the least... (Not to mention that iTunes is the most horrible audio application for Windows that I've seen in years, but YMMV... thank $DEITY you don't really need it anymore to fill an iPod...) -- Kurt Bernhard Pruenner --- Haendelstrasse 17 --- 4020 Linz --- Austria .......It might be written "Mindfuck", but it's spelt "L-A-I-N"....... np: Underworld - Beautiful Burnout (Oblivion With Bells) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2007-10-26 11:53F.Enmark> Wait - you have no problem encoding your own MP3s from a CD, but think > FLAC (which is
From:
F.Enmark
To:
Date:
Fri, 26 Oct 2007 13:53:24 +0200
Subject:
Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
Reply to:
Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
permalink · <ab7ffdcd0710260453y62b0b32r8cc11addda8f9f94@mail.gmail.com>
quoted 11 lines Wait - you have no problem encoding your own MP3s from a CD, but think> Wait - you have no problem encoding your own MP3s from a CD, but think > FLAC (which is exactly the same quality as CD, namely lossless) is a > "bullshit format" because it doesn't work right out of the box on an > iPod (exactly like, say, a CD), because *snare rush* you'd have to > re-encode it to MP3 first, again exactly like you would with a CD? > > That's... strange, to say the least... > > (Not to mention that iTunes is the most horrible audio application for > Windows that I've seen in years, but YMMV... thank $DEITY you don't > really need it anymore to fill an iPod...)
each to his own and all that, but i get tons of tracks sent to me from people and i send tons of tracks away myself, and like i said, me myself and 90% of all i know use an ipod, and i don't need a format that noone can play like they play all their other stuff. dont feel like encoding a cd to flac, that i'm gonna encode to a high bitrate mp3 anyways... it's not the question of cd or flac, it's the question of flac or mp3... and i think itunes is an incredible application for sorting and playing your music, and i don't use a PC either.. then again bullshit format is a harsh word i guess... each to his own and all that... you flac away! :) /f -- fenmark@gmail.com http://www.french.se/portfolio http://www.french.se/plod --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2007-10-26 14:26chthonic streams>> (Not to mention that iTunes is the most horrible audio application for >> Windows that
From:
chthonic streams
To:
idm
Date:
Fri, 26 Oct 2007 10:26:06 -0400
Subject:
Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
Reply to:
Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
permalink · <ff003b83bada3fb78d4dc7d19db9074b@chthonicstreams.com>
quoted 2 lines (Not to mention that iTunes is the most horrible audio application for>> (Not to mention that iTunes is the most horrible audio application for >> Windows that I've seen in years
heh. well "cross-platform" is an increasingly rare term. microsoft stopped updating certain programs for mac years ago. as for apps running shitty on other platforms, windows media player for mac sucks ass. i see smoother motion on a paper flipbook.
quoted 5 lines each to his own and all that, but i get tons of tracks sent to me from> each to his own and all that, but i get tons of tracks sent to me from > people and i send tons of tracks away myself, and like i said, me > myself and > 90% of all i know use an ipod, and i don't need a format that noone can > play like they play all their other stuff.
right, this is the problem of mp3 having gotten such a deep foothold and then apple and the RIAA getting behind it (and late to the show i might add). partially because the RIAA didn't want downloadable files to be comparable quality to CDs (while trying to say they were still a decent product), apple has made lesser quality the standard. and most people are just getting used to it. the average person isn't going to question the quality of the mp3's they're buying off itunes or change settings if they rip CDs. on itunes, 192kbps is the highest quality default setting - you have to go another level, into the *custom* prefs to set it at 320. this attitude even gets duplicated in the press by places such as pitchforkmedia who make light of anyone complaining about bitrate, as though it's inconsequential. here's an article about the mini-backlash over the 160kbps rate of the radiohead album. the same article appears on mtv.com. http://www.vh1.com/artists/news/1571737/20071011/index.jhtml? rsspartner=rssMozilla --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2007-10-26 15:21jason parent> this attitude even gets duplicated in the press by places such as > pitchforkmedia who m
From:
jason parent
To:
Date:
Fri, 26 Oct 2007 11:21:50 -0400
Subject:
Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
permalink · <01f801c817e3$eeb89b70$6400a8c0@JCW2YYGLTYXADS>
quoted 3 lines this attitude even gets duplicated in the press by places such as> this attitude even gets duplicated in the press by places such as > pitchforkmedia who make light of anyone complaining about bitrate, as > though it's inconsequential.
....well, on a deerhoof record where 98% of the sound is floored through the mids, it really doesn't! as long as the masses continue to have bad taste in music, and play their bad music through low quality systems and shitty desktop pc speakers, mp3s will continue to be the norm. it really depends on what's being played back more than anything else. a strokes or deerhoof or clap your hands say yeah! or sonic youth record will not sound much different on mp3 vs. cd, irregardless of the setup, because no effort was put into creating intricate sound textures at the low or high end [sonic youth certanly puts the effort in, but it's all guitars and floored through the mids]. a nine inch nails or radiohead or autechre or peter gabriel record will put that effort in, and it will be lost in the compression. it's not a coincidence that people into the latter group tend to be more interested in purchasing high end systems, and it's these people that will demand that the physical media exists, so that they can actually HEAR what it is that their favorite band put so much effort into creating. as far as whether or not this is a large enough segment of the music buying public to keep the majors interested in cd production, i don't know. but people like me will never take compressed media seriously because it will never be capable of competing with the physical media on a reproduction level. and, in my opinion, the worst thing that could happen would be for the smaller labels to give up on sound quality in return for lower production costs because it would give the majors a monopoly on my cd collection. j --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2007-10-30 18:42thorsten sideb0ardI've been really enjoying this thread and following all comments for it. Nice to know othe
From:
thorsten sideb0ard
To:
Date:
Tue, 30 Oct 2007 18:42:49 +0000
Subject:
Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
permalink · <47277B29.2060902@highpointlowlife.com>
I've been really enjoying this thread and following all comments for it. Nice to know other peoples thoughts on the subject, and how they compare with your own. As a label, its useful to hear peoples opinions, rather than just trying to guess what other people want and how they act, based on my own actions. Personally, i buy a lot of CDs still, rip them at 320kbps mp3s on my laptop and put the cover on my shelf. I like having the physical backup of it, but i often wonder if thats a sign of my/our age, and realise that i'm probably not representative of others. The ones which i do buy tend to be small labels, and i usually buy direct from them - its more a decision to support the label cos i like what they do, rather than not being able to get the music from other places, which you can usually do with a minimum amount of effort. The backup thing is good, but I think that will become more of a moot point in the future, as online backups and redundant system/disc setups become the norm. Quality is obviously an issue, but i am on the side of a well ripped 320kbps mp3 being good enough for my ears. I've taken to buying quite a lot of mp3 downloads from the Boomkat store tho, as they have a good selection of things i want, and even though their reviews are usually puff pieces, they do often get me interesting in hearing more of the release. I also have an emusic account which gives me 40 downloads a month, however i usually struggle finding anything i actually want, and usually only use that to try and find new things which may or may not be any good. On the other hand, i've taken to buying more vinyl again in recent years, yet i mostly just rip it and then keep the vinyl on my shelves. I guess just out of ease of use, and always seeming to have stuff sitting on top of my record player! My own feelings are that digital will become the norm, and physical objects will become more items to fetishise over. With shelves brimming with years of cd and vinyl collecting, theres little point to just another jewelcase or digipack, but something nicely presented, such as the Spekk releases, or something more handmade and assembled, is much more nicer and stands as an art object in itself, which i think also solves the problem we've had for years with CDs where a 5" square just doesnt do any justice to artwork. Thats pretty much the assumption i've been working on for Highpoint Lowlife anyway! and i have to admit it's a lot more fun trying to work on a budget and designing and assembling a run of 100 limited copies of something, rather than just paying a wack of money to receive 1000 non-descript cases, half of which in most cases, end up sitting round your room anyway! An aside to that, with sales of CDs (and vinyl) declining to a niche market, i think there will eventually be a digital music tariff built into the cost of broadband usage, something you won't notice, but will form a pool of money that will be split between label/artists/rights holders and collection agencies. I would hope this will be based on actual data and be fairer to the small labels and unsigned artists than the current models used based on estimated and aggregate data. but yeah, thats sheer speculation! thor --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2007-11-01 18:57Jacob Arnoldthorsten sideb0ard wrote: > Personally, i buy a lot of CDs still, rip them at 320kbps mp3s
From:
Jacob Arnold
To:
thorsten sideb0ard
Cc:
Date:
Thu, 1 Nov 2007 12:57:36 -0600 (MDT)
Subject:
Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
Reply to:
Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
permalink · <48320.74.0.116.152.1193943456.squirrel@webmail5.pair.com>
thorsten sideb0ard wrote:
quoted 12 lines Personally, i buy a lot of CDs still, rip them at 320kbps mp3s on my> Personally, i buy a lot of CDs still, rip them at 320kbps mp3s on my > laptop and put the cover on my shelf. I like having the physical backup > of it, but i often wonder if thats a sign of my/our age, and realise > that i'm probably not representative of others. The ones which i do buy > tend to be small labels, and i usually buy direct from them - its more a > decision to support the label cos i like what they do, rather than not > being able to get the music from other places, which you can usually do > with a minimum amount of effort. The backup thing is good, but I think > that will become more of a moot point in the future, as online backups > and redundant system/disc setups become the norm. Quality is obviously > an issue, but i am on the side of a well ripped 320kbps mp3 being good > enough for my ears.
I'm a bit late to this thread and am still catching up to replies, but my strategy is similar to Thorsten's. I arrived at it through quite a bit of trial and error. Even though I have difficulty keeping up with all of the promos I get, I still buy a ton of physical music. In order of preference from highest to lowest, I buy releases in these formats: CD, lossless download (flac/wav), vinyl. I go to extremes to track down obscure old tracks on compilations or CD singles if possible. I rip most CDs and some vinyl to Apple lossless and play the files on my iPod or over my Slim Devices Squeezebox: http://www.slimdevices.com/ I've been grappling with how to store all of the CDs I've accumulated (probably around 1500 at this point). I'm thinking of investing in some heavy duty metal cabinets: http://www.can-am.ca/ I just like having the physical artwork and backup around, but I am starting to feel some guilt about the waste of plastic, shipping energy and emissions, etc. so I may finally make the switch to preferring digital at some point. Lossy just isn't good enough for me, though. Cheers, Jacob --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2007-11-01 23:26Caleb Cobelldunno whether any of you will find this particularly relevant on the subject but a mate of
From:
Caleb Cobell
To:
Date:
Thu, 1 Nov 2007 23:26:44 +0000
Subject:
RE: [idm] who still buys CDs
Reply to:
Re: [idm] who still buys CDs
permalink · <BLU112-W222F65AEB3B9D86A0662A8AD8C0@phx.gbl>
dunno whether any of you will find this particularly relevant on the subject but a mate of mine sent me this the other day and it amused me Dear Sir, It goes a little something like this..... When I burn discs to put music onto my minidisc my sony stereo won't play them, presumably because they are not sony discs and it is a compatibility issue. Who'd of thought it? Sonic Stage doesn't even open now and even when did it wasn't recognised by the computer and wouldn't let me load music into it anyway therefore preventing me from transfering music direct from my machine to minidisc. Another compatability issue? Perhaps. Who knows? I don't really want an ipod so I thought fuck it, i'll get an old Sony Walkman and play tapes but even ebay is fucking up on me now. Fuck this, fuck sony, fuck everything. I'm gonna get me an ipod and a 9 to 5 job in London and comute the fuck up there and back for the next 30 fucking years listening to Oasis and James fucking Blunt and every other inoffensive pop band that I can find in the Virgin Mega Store in Bromley like every other fucking clone. I'll marry a girl a bit younger than me who's slightly over weight, but she's sweet enough, and we'll move to little house in Sevenoaks. We'll have our pretentious lower middle class friends over for dinner parties where we'll discuss third world debt and gobal warming and art and what a good job the next half arsed Labour Prime Minister is doing even though we don't have a fucking clue what we are talking about while listening to a cd of classical music from adverts that my brother-in-law bought me last Christmas. When we feel it's the right time my wife will squeeze out a few puppies. We'll have a girl and a boy. Money will be tight for a few years, you know cos we have to make ends meet and stuff, but when the kids are old enough my wife will get a job at the local Sainsbury's. It's not very well paid but she enjoys it and it pays a few bills. Our kids will go to a local school but not the independent one. We couldn't afford that even if they were smart enough. Our daughter, although not as bright as our son, works hard and has good grades. Her worse fear is that she'll be 30 years old and working in a library because all she has is a masters degree from a liberal arts college. Our son is actually quite clever but he's not very academic and never fulfills his true potential. But that's ok cos I can get him a job at my firm because by now i've managed to work my way up to a middle management position. When the kids move into their own places after they come back form University, myself and my wife who has since reduced her hours at Sainsbury's can go back to our pseudo middle class suburbanite lives. We will still only be in our early forties and we've scrimped and saved and have a little nest egg which we can dip into every so often to go on city breaks to Paris and Rome and Barcelona to rekindle our boring married sex life and if i'm lucky I wont have a heart attack before retirement age and we'll have a few years with the grandchildren. One day over dinner our children who still live in the same town 5 miles from the family home in there own boring middle class worlds of bills and school sports days and dinner parties and ipods will ask me something. They'll say "dad, why did you never take us to see The Arsenal? Or teach us about the dangers of drugs and unsafe sex so we could rebel? Or play us Led Zeppelin or ACDC or NWA or encourage us to see the world?" And do you know what i'll say? I'll say it's because Sony fucking Sonic fucking Stage is a pile of shit. Even the minidisc machines themselves will wipe entire discs at the drop of a hat and there is an old saying, "if you cant beat em, join em"...... "Enough was enough"...... " I got me an ipod and a 9 to 5 job in london and......" No! Wait a minute, I have a better idea. I'm gonna move to a little house in Sevenoaks and invite all of my cocain addicted football hooligan pals over to tear up the neighbourhood. Then i'm gonna plug my Marshall VS265R amplifier into my Technics seperates system and turn it up to 11 and put on Raw Power by The Stooges on cd. Fuck yeah man, a cd. You remember them. Then i'm gonna play Gimme Danger so fucking loud your ears will bleed. And do you know why? BECAUSE I HATE SONY SONIC STAGE. yours sincerely sam j. hunter esq p.s i'm still gonna buy a Sony Bravia 42 inch LCD tv for my PS3 to play GTA 4 on though
quoted 52 lines Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 12:57:36 -0600> Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 12:57:36 -0600 > From: jacob@gridface.com > To: thorsten@highpointlowlife.com > CC: idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: Re: [idm] who still buys CDs > > thorsten sideb0ard wrote: > > Personally, i buy a lot of CDs still, rip them at 320kbps mp3s on my > > laptop and put the cover on my shelf. I like having the physical backup > > of it, but i often wonder if thats a sign of my/our age, and realise > > that i'm probably not representative of others. The ones which i do buy > > tend to be small labels, and i usually buy direct from them - its more a > > decision to support the label cos i like what they do, rather than not > > being able to get the music from other places, which you can usually do > > with a minimum amount of effort. The backup thing is good, but I think > > that will become more of a moot point in the future, as online backups > > and redundant system/disc setups become the norm. Quality is obviously > > an issue, but i am on the side of a well ripped 320kbps mp3 being good > > enough for my ears. > > I'm a bit late to this thread and am still catching up to replies, but my > strategy is similar to Thorsten's. I arrived at it through quite a bit of > trial and error. > > Even though I have difficulty keeping up with all of the promos I get, I > still buy a ton of physical music. In order of preference from highest to > lowest, I buy releases in these formats: CD, lossless download (flac/wav), > vinyl. I go to extremes to track down obscure old tracks on compilations > or CD singles if possible. > > I rip most CDs and some vinyl to Apple lossless and play the files on my > iPod or over my Slim Devices Squeezebox: > http://www.slimdevices.com/ > > I've been grappling with how to store all of the CDs I've accumulated > (probably around 1500 at this point). I'm thinking of investing in some > heavy duty metal cabinets: > http://www.can-am.ca/ > > I just like having the physical artwork and backup around, but I am > starting to feel some guilt about the waste of plastic, shipping energy > and emissions, etc. so I may finally make the switch to preferring digital > at some point. Lossy just isn't good enough for me, though. > > Cheers, > Jacob > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >
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2007-11-02 00:27Andrew Hime> dunno whether any of you will find this particularly relevant on the subject but a mate
From:
Andrew Hime
To:
Date:
Thu, 01 Nov 2007 19:27:57 -0500 (CDT)
Subject:
Re: RE: [idm] who still buys CDs
permalink · <26175993.6899171193963277176.JavaMail.root@vms172.mailsrvcs.net>
quoted 1 line>
dunno whether any of you will find this particularly relevant on the subject but a mate of mine sent me this the other day and it amused me
quoted 1 line>
Methinks your friend creates his own problems and makes his own gravy. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2007-11-02 04:12Caleb Cobellhaha thats pretty accurate actually > Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 19:27:57 -0500 > From: andrewh
From:
Caleb Cobell
To:
Andrew Hime
Cc:
Date:
Fri, 2 Nov 2007 04:12:25 +0000
Subject:
RE: [idm] who still buys CDs
Reply to:
Re: RE: [idm] who still buys CDs
permalink · <BLU112-W350E89D6D0597EA9EACB13AD8D0@phx.gbl>
haha thats pretty accurate actually
quoted 16 lines Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 19:27:57 -0500> Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 19:27:57 -0500 > From: andrewhime@verizon.net > To: idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: Re: RE: [idm] who still buys CDs > > > > > dunno whether any of you will find this particularly relevant on the subject but a mate of mine sent me this the other day and it amused me > > > > Methinks your friend creates his own problems and makes his own gravy. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >
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