IDM Mailing Archive

On 21 Apr 2004 at 12:17, Def Con 1 wrote:

quoted 2 lines All intelligent and informed people should care about

> All intelligent and informed people should care about > these issues, no matter what flag you reside under.

I never said I didn't *CARE* about political issues; my point was, that living in another country, I have no sway in whether or not the American Persident is impeached. My vote does not count. That's all. I * --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

In all honesty, though this is a little too progressive for most Americans, I think the global community should vote on who is the leaders in the UN and maybe has some proportional say in the US prez. I say this because, since WWII, the USA has been involved in many a global conflict and since our politicians think we should tell the world what to do, the world should also have a say. Please remember, if you are from a country other than the US, your leaders absolutely suck at our money teat so they will follow the US even if they tell you something different. ! On Apr 22, 2004, at 12:44 AM, Irene McC wrote:

quoted 19 lines On 21 Apr 2004 at 12:17, Def Con 1 wrote:

> On 21 Apr 2004 at 12:17, Def Con 1 wrote: > >> All intelligent and informed people should care about >> these issues, no matter what flag you reside under. > > I never said I didn't *CARE* about political issues; my point was, > that living in another country, I have no sway in whether or not the > American Persident is impeached. My vote does not count. > > That's all. > > I > * > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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quoted 3 lines I say this because, since WWII, the USA has been involved in many a

> I say this because, since WWII, the USA has been involved in many a > global conflict and since our politicians think we should tell the > world what to do, the world should also have a say.

Oh, that's absolutely brilliant. Russia absolutely relys on the US for financial aid and yet boldly defied our will to invade Iraq. Sorry, pal, you have no idea what you are talking about. And allowing other countries to have a say in the election of the US president, or any other high (or otherwise) office is utterly absurd. As absurd as our attempts have been. The American people need to make up their minds. Sadly the American left (of which I am a die hard member) have never in US history sounded so goddamned ignorant as they have over the past 3.5 years. * Bush is a fool and the most devious, engenious conspirator of all time. Simultaneously. * Bush is a Hitler, and worse than Saddam. * "We're glad Saddam is gone, but....." * Impeach Bush! (by Internet petition? by placing ads in your local paper? Huh?) Idiocy! The Constitution explains impeachment in one paragraph. It would take about a minute and a half to know everything you need to know to about impeachment, and yet people spend MONTHS trying to impeach a man who has not committed an impeachable offense. JUST THIS WEEK, for the FIRST TIME, someone THINKS he MIGHT have committed an impeachable offense in illegally diverting funds meant for Afghanistan to the Iraq offense. That's this week, but people have been screaming "Impeach!" since January of 2001. What the hell is everyone talking about?

quoted 4 lines Please remember,

>Please remember, > if you are from a country other than the US, your leaders absolutely > suck at our money teat so they will follow the US even if they tell you > something different.

Then the rest of the world needs to do something about their piss poor leadership instead of waiting for us to do it for them, then decrying us as tyrants and occupiers when we do. This crybaby shit has got to stop. Rick --- out. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

--- Glowdot Dot Com <rick@glowdot.com> wrote:

quoted 2 lines Russia absolutely relys on the US for financial aid

> Russia absolutely relys on the US for financial aid > and yet boldly defied our will to invade Iraq.

Well first off you have to consider Russia (and France) have invested a lot of money in the Iraqi oil industry. It doesn't make a lot of sense to abandon all that time and money, just so America can grab the whole piece of the pie. Secondly, a majority of the populations in most if not all the eurasian countries were against the war. And third, there was never a credible case for the war presented. What credible evidence was shown that the threat was so imminent that the UN inspectors couldn't continue their work. War should be the last resort, not the first.

quoted 5 lines Sorry, pal, you have no idea what you are talking

> Sorry, pal, you have no idea what you are talking > about. And allowing other > countries to have a say in the election of the US > president, or any other > high (or otherwise) office is utterly absurd.

It probably wouldn't matter anyway, because this next election is probably rigged like the last one. The new voting machines are being provided by a few companies and surprise surprise all the CEOs for the 3 or 4 companies are Republican, some of them are even Bush's rangers. http://www.onlisareinsradar.com/archives/001684.php

quoted 6 lines As absurd as our attempts have been. The American

> As absurd as our attempts have been. The American > people need to make up > their minds. Sadly the American left (of which I am > a die hard member) have > never in US history sounded so goddamned ignorant as > they have over the past 3.5 years.

To be honest, I don't think the other side sounds any better. In fact they keep tripping up over spun stories. At least Rush Limbaugh has an excuse he is a drugs addict.

quoted 2 lines * Bush is a fool and the most devious, engenious

> * Bush is a fool and the most devious, engenious > conspirator of all time. Simultaneously.

I've never heard anyone call Bush engenious. A fool, yes. Jon Stewart of the Daily Show once said that he doesn't think Bush is stupid, he thinks Bush must think the American people are stupid the way he talks to us.

quoted 1 line * Bush is a Hitler, and worse than Saddam.

> * Bush is a Hitler, and worse than Saddam.

There are always extremes to both sides of the spectrum. I don't think the neocons speak for the whole republican party. The Bush/Hitler reference had to do with posters at a antiwar rally that the press decided to pick up on. I certainly wouldn't define the position of the opposition based on solely on posters.

quoted 1 line * "We're glad Saddam is gone, but....."

> * "We're glad Saddam is gone, but....."

Yes, the plus side is Saddam is gone, but we also have to ask at what price did we pay for that. The war is averaging $4.7 billion a month, we've lost over 700 soldiers, killed over 10,000 civilians, we are stuck in a quagmire, no WMDs were found, the US's reputation is seriously in the toilet, and there doesn't seem to be any exit strategy.

quoted 2 lines * Impeach Bush! (by Internet petition? by placing

> * Impeach Bush! (by Internet petition? by placing > ads in your local paper? Huh?)

Wishful thinking

quoted 7 lines The Constitution explains impeachment in one

> The Constitution explains impeachment in one > paragraph. It would take about > a minute and a half to know everything you need to > know to about > impeachment, and yet people spend MONTHS trying to > impeach a man who has not committed an impeachable > offense.

Well if you think lying about a blowjob is an impeachable offense. Then lying to the people to get us into a war (to enrich the oil companies from your home state) ought to be an impeachable offense as well.

quoted 8 lines JUST THIS WEEK, for the FIRST TIME,

> JUST THIS WEEK, for the FIRST TIME, > someone THINKS he MIGHT have committed an > impeachable offense in illegally > diverting funds meant for Afghanistan to the Iraq > offense. That's this > week, but people have been screaming "Impeach!" > since January of 2001. What > the hell is everyone talking about?

There is a lot of fishy stuff regarding the 2000 elections. I could go into detail but it's late for me

quoted 4 lines Please remember, if you are from a country other

> Please remember, if you are from a country other > than the US, your leaders absolutely suck at our > money teat so they will follow the US even if they > tell you something different.

That's classy.

quoted 4 lines Then the rest of the world needs to do something

> Then the rest of the world needs to do something > about their piss poor leadership instead of waiting > for us to do it for them, then decrying us as > tyrants and occupiers when we do.

I don't remember the rest of the world asking for war. Maybe I missed that newsclip __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25? http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 2 lines Well first off you have to consider Russia (and

> Well first off you have to consider Russia (and > France) have invested a lot of money in the Iraqi oil

Relevance? The guy said countries that "suck on the teat of America" do as their told. Russia is evidence to the contrary. Now, so are Spain and Honduras.

quoted 5 lines The new

> The new > voting machines are being provided by a few companies > and surprise surprise all the CEOs for the 3 or 4 > companies are Republican, some of them are even Bush's > rangers.

This is the kind of hysterical ignorance I'm talking about. Do you REALLY think the Republican party would risk the utter bloodbath that would ensue if they rigged the next election via voter fraud? Holy shit, it would be the end of the party. Please.

quoted 2 lines To be honest, I don't think the other side sounds any

> To be honest, I don't think the other side sounds any > better.

No one said they did. That isn't an excuse, however.

quoted 1 line I've never heard anyone call Bush engenious.

> I've never heard anyone call Bush engenious.

He supposedly put this plan of miraculous World Domination(tm) into play within hours after 9/11. I'd called that pretty fucking genius. For a man who before 9/11 was a hillbilly hayseed, he sure seems to be pulling a lot of devious schemes behind America's back. I just want to know, which is it?

quoted 4 lines The Bush/Hitler reference had to do with posters at a

> The Bush/Hitler reference had to do with posters at a > antiwar rally that the press decided to pick up on. I > certainly wouldn't define the position of the > opposition based on solely on posters.

We're you in L.A. roughly a year ago? Or New York? Spent time in both. Sentiment widespread, to say the least.

quoted 7 lines Yes, the plus side is Saddam is gone, but we also have

> Yes, the plus side is Saddam is gone, but we also have > to ask at what price did we pay for that. The war is > averaging $4.7 billion a month, we've lost over 700 > soldiers, killed over 10,000 civilians, we are stuck > in a quagmire, no WMDs were found, the US's reputation > is seriously in the toilet, and there doesn't seem to > be any exit strategy.

That is a legitimate gripe, and those are the arguments the left should have made all along. The rest, as I said, are not. Calling Bush Hitler is ignorant flap. Since you brought up Jon Stewart, he also said, in the same segment, that by calling Bush Hitler you immediately lose credibility (not to mention that you instantly insult and degrade the suffering of some 6 million people -- [my add.]).

quoted 4 lines * Impeach Bush! (by Internet petition? by placing

> > * Impeach Bush! (by Internet petition? by placing > > ads in your local paper? Huh?) > > Wishful thinking

Yes, and utter ignorance. I wish I could get a million dollars by placing "tiny classified ads". Attempting to actually do so would make me an ignorant jackass.

quoted 2 lines Well if you think lying about a blowjob is an

> Well if you think lying about a blowjob is an > impeachable offense.

Look, I loved Clinton. Voted for him twice and worked on his campaign. But shut up with that shit already. Is lying about a blowjob an impeachable offense? No. Is lying about a blowjob in a court of law an impeachable offense? Yes. And so he was impeached. The Democrats would have done the same, given the opportunity. Hell, as I said, they've been screaming for impeachment with no impeachable offense for over three years, what does that tell you?

quoted 4 lines Then lying to the people to get

> Then lying to the people to get > us into a war (to enrich the oil companies from your > home state) ought to be an impeachable offense as > well.

If only it were a crime to lie to the public. Alas, it is not.

quoted 2 lines There is a lot of fishy stuff regarding the 2000

> There is a lot of fishy stuff regarding the 2000 > elections. I could go into detail but it's late for me

Ugh. Both parties agreed to settle the matter before the Supreme Court. If the court had ruled in Gore's favor, what then?

quoted 6 lines Please remember, if you are from a country other

> > > Please remember, if you are from a country other > > > than the US, your leaders absolutely suck at our > > > money teat so they will follow the US even if they > > > tell you something different. > > That's classy.

That was from the last guy. Hope you're speaking to him.

quoted 8 lines Then the rest of the world needs to do something

> > Then the rest of the world needs to do something > > about their piss poor leadership instead of waiting > > for us to do it for them, then decrying us as > > tyrants and occupiers when we do. > > I don't remember the rest of the world asking for war. > > Maybe I missed that newsclip

Maybe you missed my point entirely. Please re-read that last paragraph. Slowly. Rick @ Glowdot --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

<<He supposedly put this plan of miraculous World Domination(tm) into play within hours after 9/11. I'd called that pretty fucking genius. For a man who before 9/11 was a hillbilly hayseed, he sure seems to be pulling a lot of devious schemes behind America's back. I just want to know, which is it?>> A minor point on this one and its something I've been thinking about quite a bit lately. These two seemingly contradictory states of nature are not contradictory at all if you take an honest look at the situation. If there was a plan for "world domination" (I believe there certainly was a good bit of progress on certain agendas, call it world domination to be dramatic or typical American behavior, which in my opinion is slightly less than "world domination" but considerably greater than a healthy relationship with the vast majority of the world's population) it sure as hell wasn't advanced by President Bush. I'd prefer to call it a "shift in world order" but whatever you call it, it would be of complete ignorance to believe that the bumbling dipshit we refer to as President has anything to do with the overall advancement of this agenda (whatever you want to call it) rather than his handlers - one of which will be faithfully by his side next week in the 9-11 commission, doubtless as Bush couldn't even hold a 20 minute press conference without sounding like a complete clown ("See here, nobody likes to see dead bodies on television." note: the preceding quote was edited for grunts, stammering and other vulgarities that would get someone booted out of a high school rhetoric class) let alone face questions concerning one of the most serious events in world history. The President of the United States, for the most part, is crafted to be whatever an almost endless team of engineers tell him to be. Reagan fit this well, after all he was an actor. Clinton was slick and very intelligent. Immoral but intelligent. The interesting thing about Bush is here we have a president so fucking stupid that he can't even seem to read the cards his handlers feed him. Bush crafting a plan after 9-11.... Good god man, he can't even address a single reporter without that dear-in-headlights lock-up over a dozen "ummmmmmmmmmm"s... Not to go into the nature of the advancement of US/world relationships, I would only ask the following: please don't mistake that Bush's sheer ignorance and, frankly, completely embarrassing nature has one thing to do with the overall evolution of these global trends. He has, as he would put it, "thinkers" to do that for him. He is a good cowboy. The one thing he had going for him was his appeal to the type of person who believes that everything is either good or bad. This works very well up until around the point when people start to see too many of their fellow citizens being slaughtered in a war he (his handlers) has yet to answer some serious questions about - and NOT just stammer on about "how evil Saddam was", or when things get worse how "REALLY evil Saddam was". There comes a point when things get so bad that thinking is forced on even the most happily ignorant and the passive believers of whatever shit he mispronounces down their throats aren't satisfied. They can't be. It is too serious. You need look no further than the letters from military families, the incredible amount of unanswered questions, lack of faith and deterioration of the endeavor in its entirety. The military is stretched to the breaking point; top military brass will tell you that. The fact that they would even CONSIDER a draft tells us a whole lot. We know what that leads to in the face of illegitimate war, and I am filled with such unbelievable hope that there is a draft enacted - it would lead to the best thing to happen to the nation since the civil rights movement, anyone with any sense of the obvious knows exactly what I'm talking about - think 1969. It'll take more than an air craft carrier landing to salvage that one. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Bush versus Kerry The loser - America -d. <http://www.virtumundo.com/signature/dotrow.gif> <http://www.virtumundo.com/signature/fulllogo.gif> Daniel Fox Traffic Coordinator/Customer Relations Virtumundo, Inc. 8400 West 110th Street Suite 330 Overland Park, KS 66210 <http://www.virtumundo.com/signature/nil.gif> ph 9 1 3 6 6 0 1 3 1 2 <mailto:chobson@virtumundo.com> dfox@virtumundo.com <http://www.virtumundo.com/signature/nil.gif> <http://www.virtumundo.com/signature/nil.gif> -----Original Message----- From: Brandon [mailto:gozravp@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 10:54 AM To: Glowdot Dot Com; idm@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [idm] Re: [OT] Bush sucks and philippe-petit doesn't <<He supposedly put this plan of miraculous World Domination(tm) into play within hours after 9/11. I'd called that pretty fucking genius. For a man who before 9/11 was a hillbilly hayseed, he sure seems to be pulling a lot of devious schemes behind America's back. I just want to know, which is it?>> A minor point on this one and its something I've been thinking about quite a bit lately. These two seemingly contradictory states of nature are not contradictory at all if you take an honest look at the situation. If there was a plan for "world domination" (I believe there certainly was a good bit of progress on certain agendas, call it world domination to be dramatic or typical American behavior, which in my opinion is slightly less than "world domination" but considerably greater than a healthy relationship with the vast majority of the world's population) it sure as hell wasn't advanced by President Bush. I'd prefer to call it a "shift in world order" but whatever you call it, it would be of complete ignorance to believe that the bumbling dipshit we refer to as President has anything to do with the overall advancement of this agenda (whatever you want to call it) rather than his handlers - one of which will be faithfully by his side next week in the 9-11 commission, doubtless as Bush couldn't even hold a 20 minute press conference without sounding like a complete clown ("See here, nobody likes to see dead bodies on television." note: the preceding quote was edited for grunts, stammering and other vulgarities that would get someone booted out of a high school rhetoric class) let alone face questions concerning one of the most serious events in world history. The President of the United States, for the most part, is crafted to be whatever an almost endless team of engineers tell him to be. Reagan fit this well, after all he was an actor. Clinton was slick and very intelligent. Immoral but intelligent. The interesting thing about Bush is here we have a president so fucking stupid that he can't even seem to read the cards his handlers feed him. Bush crafting a plan after 9-11.... Good god man, he can't even address a single reporter without that dear-in-headlights lock-up over a dozen "ummmmmmmmmmm"s... Not to go into the nature of the advancement of US/world relationships, I would only ask the following: please don't mistake that Bush's sheer ignorance and, frankly, completely embarrassing nature has one thing to do with the overall evolution of these global trends. He has, as he would put it, "thinkers" to do that for him. He is a good cowboy. The one thing he had going for him was his appeal to the type of person who believes that everything is either good or bad. This works very well up until around the point when people start to see too many of their fellow citizens being slaughtered in a war he (his handlers) has yet to answer some serious questions about - and NOT just stammer on about "how evil Saddam was", or when things get worse how "REALLY evil Saddam was". There comes a point when things get so bad that thinking is forced on even the most happily ignorant and the passive believers of whatever shit he mispronounces down their throats aren't satisfied. They can't be. It is too serious. You need look no further than the letters from military families, the incredible amount of unanswered questions, lack of faith and deterioration of the endeavor in its entirety. The military is stretched to the breaking point; top military brass will tell you that. The fact that they would even CONSIDER a draft tells us a whole lot. We know what that leads to in the face of illegitimate war, and I am filled with such unbelievable hope that there is a draft enacted - it would lead to the best thing to happen to the nation since the civil rights movement, anyone with any sense of the obvious knows exactly what I'm talking about - think 1969. It'll take more than an air craft carrier landing to salvage that one. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

last 4 years were not the worst period in american history, so i have to admit that this administration is doing its job not so bad they somehow managed to prevent deep recesion that was inevitable after all the schemes of new economy were exhausted now it seems that their monetary policies keep housing market up which pulls the rest of us and world economies the Irak compain objectively speaking can be called a success so far despite everyone and their mother screaming against it i used to blame Bush for 9-11 as it happened under their watch now i realize that it goes much deeper than that so under the circumstance its not so bad as it could 've been i dont really care if the President is not an actor or a womanizer or something i like them being simple ))) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25? http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

--- Glowdot Dot Com <rick@glowdot.com> wrote:

quoted 10 lines The new voting machines are being provided by a

> > The new voting machines are being provided by a > > few companies and surprise surprise all the CEOs > > for the 3 or 4 companies are Republican, some of > > them are even Bush's rangers. > > This is the kind of hysterical ignorance I'm talking > about. Do you REALLY > think the Republican party would risk the utter > bloodbath that would ensue > if they rigged the next election via voter fraud?

You mean like Watergate, the republicans would never try and plant bugs the democrats. Or like Katherine Harris, she would never hire a company like DBT to compile a HUGE list of suppose felons to prevent a certain demographic from voting. And it must of just been an honest mistake that 90% of the people on their list were completely innocent, and I suppose African Americans never got turned away from the polls in Florida either. And most recently, I guess Republicans didn't know that they were not suppose to try and access and spy on the democrat's internet server, where they kept their strategies and private communications. I mean spying for a whole year must have been an honest mistake.

quoted 2 lines Holy shit, it would be

> Holy shit, it would be > the end of the party. Please.

Right they would never do anything like that kind of stuff. Got it

quoted 10 lines I've never heard anyone call Bush engenious.

> > I've never heard anyone call Bush engenious. > > He supposedly put this plan of miraculous World > Domination(tm) into play > within hours after 9/11. I'd called that pretty > fucking genius. For a man > who before 9/11 was a hillbilly hayseed, he sure > seems to be pulling a lot > of devious schemes behind America's back. I just > want to know, which is it?

Well the Project for the New American Century (PNAC) was written back in 1998 by Cheney and likeminded Neocons. And don't forget Bush pretty much grabbed all the people that worked under his dad and Reagan. He had all the old school cold warriors and I'm sure they had lots of plans of their own. http://www.pnac.info/

quoted 3 lines We're you in L.A. roughly a year ago? Or New York?

> We're you in L.A. roughly a year ago? Or New York? > Spent time in both. > Sentiment widespread, to say the least.

I would say that the internet helped that. People can hear about stuff and copy ideas and exchange artwork, etc. So it's not surprising.

quoted 12 lines Yes, the plus side is Saddam is gone, but we also

> > Yes, the plus side is Saddam is gone, but we also > have > > to ask at what price did we pay for that. The war > is > > averaging $4.7 billion a month, we've lost over > 700 > > soldiers, killed over 10,000 civilians, we are > stuck > > in a quagmire, no WMDs were found, the US's > reputation > > is seriously in the toilet, and there doesn't seem > to be any exit strategy.

quoted 2 lines That is a legitimate gripe, and those are the

> That is a legitimate gripe, and those are the > arguments the left should have made all along.

Those are the gripes I have heard all along.

quoted 2 lines The rest, as I said, are not. Calling Bush Hitler is

> The rest, as I said, are not. Calling Bush Hitler is > ignorant flap.

Well, everyone loves to site Hitler. I've heard school kids reference their teachers as being like Hitler. i've heard cops that bust raves compared to nazis How many times has our government used the reference of hitler to demonize someone? Several times I can recall.

quoted 6 lines Since you brought up Jon Stewart, he

> Since you brought up Jon Stewart, he > also said, in the same > segment, that by calling Bush Hitler you immediately > lose credibility (not > to mention that you instantly insult and degrade the > suffering of some 6 million people -- [my add.]).

Yeah, I saw that. I like Jon Stewart a lot. Do we even know who know the political affiliation of the person (s) that started the comparison. Were they anarchists? anti-global demonstraters, hippies, ravers for PLUR, etc.

quoted 5 lines * Impeach Bush! (by Internet petition? by

> > > * Impeach Bush! (by Internet petition? by > placing > > > ads in your local paper? Huh?) > > > > Wishful thinking

quoted 4 lines Yes, and utter ignorance. I wish I could get a

> Yes, and utter ignorance. I wish I could get a > million dollars by placing > "tiny classified ads". Attempting to actually do so > would make me an ignorant jackass.

Hmm..I can think of many examples of ignorance and stupidity like freedom fries, major hysteria against the dixie chicks, a guy getting arrested for wearing a peace T-shirt in the mall. Saying you are against the troops if you question Bush's rush to war, etc. Janet Jackson's nipple overreaction. Face it there is no shortage of ignorance

quoted 6 lines Well if you think lying about a blowjob is an

> > Well if you think lying about a blowjob is an > > impeachable offense. > > Look, I loved Clinton. Voted for him twice and > worked on his campaign. But shut up with that shit > already.

You have to look at history.

quoted 4 lines Is lying about a blowjob an impeachable

> Is lying about a blowjob an impeachable > offense? No. Is lying about a blowjob in a court > of law an impeachable > offense? Yes. And so he was impeached.

Should we have spent the millions and had over 200 FBI agents focused on investigating Clinton to just come up with that? Agents that maybe could have been returned calls back flight schools, or doing something useful.

quoted 2 lines The Democrats would have done the same, given the

> The Democrats would have done the same, given the > opportunity.

About lying about a sexual indiscretion? I don't think the left is nearly as organized as the right when it comes to attack politics. I'm sure the democrats would have brought up the issue, but I can't see it going nearly as far as the Starr report and everything. It was pretty absurd to spend so much money and go on and on and on and on and on....

quoted 3 lines Hell, as I said, they've been screaming for

> Hell, as I said, they've been screaming for > impeachment with no impeachable offense for over > three years, what does that tell you?

That the country is divided.

quoted 5 lines Then lying to the people to get

> > Then lying to the people to get > > us into a war (to enrich the oil companies from > your > > home state) ought to be an impeachable offense as > > well.

quoted 2 lines If only it were a crime to lie to the public. Alas,

> If only it were a crime to lie to the public. Alas, > it is not.

obviously, the media and government would have a very hard time if they had to focus on the truth

quoted 3 lines There is a lot of fishy stuff regarding the 2000

> > There is a lot of fishy stuff regarding the 2000 > > elections. I could go into detail but it's late > for me

quoted 3 lines Ugh. Both parties agreed to settle the matter

> Ugh. Both parties agreed to settle the matter > before the Supreme Court. If > the court had ruled in Gore's favor, what then?

I think all the votes should have been counted and the dirty tricks should have been investigated and prosecuted. Tiem to get back to work __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25? http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 2 lines Russia absolutely relys on the US for financial aid and yet boldly defied

> Russia absolutely relys on the US for financial aid and yet boldly defied > our will to invade Iraq.

so what are we just buying people off to get our way? it's not that simple, maybe the russian elected officials actually have some kind of idea of the way they want to do things as opposed to just copping out to the highest bidder and playing the politics game. russia could have a lot to lose getting their hands dirty in this sort of thing especially since extremist muslims don't necessarily associate them with the "western devil" and for the record can you even name a worse president than bush in american history? (nixon, polk and coolidge don't count) nick james

"and for the record can you even name a worse president than bush in american history?" His father is a close second. Regards, Brent --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Brent Colflesh said:

quoted 5 lines "and for the record can you even name a worse president than bush in

> "and for the record can you even name a worse president than bush in > american > history?" > > His father is a close second.

uhh, reagan? bush may be an idiot, but he's not actively trading arms with our enemies, helping our government stage coups in other unstable countries (bush is actively invading), or coming up with "trickle down economics." but reagan was old and famous so he skirts by most people's "critical" radar. -- eggytoast.com : eggtastic.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

By all accounts, Bush managed arms sales to the Contras during Reagan's reign. Bush Juniors cabal is actively supplying Israel with weapons, as well as the usual assortment of juntas with US-appointed dictators who haven't crossed us... yet. Regards, Brent -----Original Message----- From: Eggy Toast [mailto:eggy@eggtastic.com] Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 1:56 PM To: idm@hyperreal.org Subject: RE: [idm] Re: [OT] Bush sucks and philippe-petit doesn't Brent Colflesh said:

quoted 5 lines "and for the record can you even name a worse president than bush in

> "and for the record can you even name a worse president than bush in > american > history?" > > His father is a close second.

uhh, reagan? bush may be an idiot, but he's not actively trading arms with our enemies, helping our government stage coups in other unstable countries (bush is actively invading), or coming up with "trickle down economics." but reagan was old and famous so he skirts by most people's "critical" radar. -- eggytoast.com : eggtastic.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 2 lines without sounding like a complete clown ("See here,

> without sounding like a complete clown ("See here, > nobody likes to see dead bodies on television." note:

Or my favorite: "One of my hardest parts of my job is to console the family members, who've lost their life." Rick @ Glowdot --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 2 lines Russia absolutely relys on the US for financial aid and yet boldly defied

>> Russia absolutely relys on the US for financial aid and yet boldly defied >> our will to invade Iraq.

quoted 3 lines so what are we just buying people off to get our way? it's not that simple, maybe the

> so what are we just buying people off to get our way? it's not that simple, maybe the russian elected officials > actually have some kind of idea of the way they want to do things as opposed to just copping out to the > highest bidder and playing the politics game.

I can't believe I'm responding to this. First of all, you apparently didn't read the message I was responding to. Nice. Second, this:

quoted 2 lines russia could have a lot to lose getting their hands dirty in this

> russia could have a lot to lose getting their hands dirty in this > sort of thing especially since extremist muslims don't necessarily associate them with the "western devil"

is one of the dumbest things I've read in a long time. You obviously have no grasp on world events whatsoever. There has been an absurd amount of extremist muslim terrorism in Russia over the past 3 years. See, they have this little conflict with Chechnya, and... Shit, go read the newspaper and fill in the blanks. Rick @ Glowdot

quoted 3 lines You mean like Watergate, the republicans would never

> You mean like Watergate, the republicans would never > try and plant bugs the democrats. Or like Katherine > Harris,

You are talking about a massive party/corporate conspiracy to hijack a national election. There is a slight difference, don't you think?

quoted 2 lines Right they would never do anything like that kind of

> Right they would never do anything like that kind of > stuff. Got it

We're talking about scale here. Conspiracy and fraud on such a massive scale that the party would cease to exist.

quoted 6 lines Well the Project for the New American Century (PNAC)

> Well the Project for the New American Century (PNAC) > was written back in 1998 by Cheney and likeminded > Neocons. And don't forget Bush pretty much grabbed all > the people that worked under his dad and Reagan. He > had all the old school cold warriors and I'm sure they > had lots of plans of their own.

So... umm.... I still don't get it, is he an idiot or a genius? That's all I want to know. I know I think he's an idiot, which is why all the world domination shit bounces off my brain like so much hot air. I still just want to know what you think.

quoted 1 line Those are the gripes I have heard all along.

> Those are the gripes I have heard all along.

Me too, in intellectual circles. However, consider that 99% of the world are not intellectuals. The problem is, liberals, and democrats, don't realize that non-intellectuals are still smart enough to see through these bullshit arguments, which is why Bush maintains over 50% in the polls. I'm calling for his opposition to stop being so unbelievably ignorant and hysterical. Its the only chance to defeat him in November.

quoted 5 lines Yeah, I saw that. I like Jon Stewart a lot. Do we even

> Yeah, I saw that. I like Jon Stewart a lot. Do we even > know who know the political affiliation of the person > (s) that started the comparison. Were they anarchists? > anti-global demonstraters, hippies, ravers for PLUR, > etc.

We may not know who started it, but we definitely know who popularized it, and that is who is at issue here.

quoted 2 lines Janet Jackson's nipple overreaction. Face it there is

> Janet Jackson's nipple overreaction. Face it there is > no shortage of ignorance

And? That's no excuse for ignorance. There's also a lot of violence and hatred in the world. Hardly justifies it in my life.

quoted 5 lines Should we have spent the millions and had over 200 FBI

> Should we have spent the millions and had over 200 FBI > agents focused on investigating Clinton to just come > up with that? Agents that maybe could have been > returned calls back flight schools, or doing something > useful.

Was it a waste? Absolutely! Should we repeat the same waste by trying to impeach a man who has not yet exposed himself to impeachment? Get my point here? Democrats wanted to seem so above it all during and immediately after the impeachment, and not two years later, they call for the same thing! Ridiculous!

quoted 3 lines About lying about a sexual indiscretion? I don't think

> About lying about a sexual indiscretion? I don't think > the left is nearly as organized as the right when it > comes to attack politics.

Sweet Christ! You absolutely don't live in California, I can safely assume. Witness what happened to Schwarzenegger. Same thing. Oh please, you can try to argue that it was about violence and disrespecting women, but its all about sexual indiscretions. You think the most powerful man in America shoving a cuban up his 20 year old intern isn't violent and disrespectful? At least in CA, the democrats are without a doubt as organized, and possibly more so, than the right. Notice I said Democrats, not "the left." Democrats are not the left.

quoted 5 lines I'm sure the democrats would

> I'm sure the democrats would > have brought up the issue, but I can't see it going > nearly as far as the Starr report and everything. It > was pretty absurd to spend so much money and go on and > on and on and on and on....

But you, like everyone else, missed the point. He was impeached for perjury, not getting his rocks off. If the Republicans had found evidence that he lied about his shoe size, the same effort would have been put into it. But, we don't generally lie about our shoe size.

quoted 5 lines Hell, as I said, they've been screaming for

> > Hell, as I said, they've been screaming for > > impeachment with no impeachable offense for over > > three years, what does that tell you? > > That the country is divided.

You need to pay more attention, then.

quoted 1 line Tiem to get back to work

> Tiem to get back to work

Tiem indeed. :) Rick @ Glowdot --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 2 lines So... umm.... I still don't get it, is he an idiot or a genius? That's all

> So... umm.... I still don't get it, is he an idiot or a genius? That's all > I want to know.

he's a genius, genius. -s --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org