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revealing article http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/ptech/07/27/digital.disc.jockeys.ap/index.html my favorite quote: "It doesn't take much talent to be a DJ anymore. You just have to have a good flow of songs." "it's more like viewing something through the bottom of a murky glass, and that's the beauty of it" _________________________________________________________________ Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

At 06:26 PM 7/27/2002 -0400, you wrote:

quoted 6 lines revealing article

>revealing article > >http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/ptech/07/27/digital.disc.jockeys.ap/index.html > >my favorite quote: "It doesn't take much talent to be a DJ anymore. You >just have to have a good flow of songs."

It's still sad that after all this time and despite the creation of documentamovies like "scratch," people still think DJ'ing simply involves playing one song after another, completely disregarding the personal input and skill fast mixing, scratching, and cutting involve. Ah well. From their POV, it's never taken much to be a DJ -- just records and the ability to tell a beat. Don't tell those "hipsters" (I thought the point of being a hipster is that you're hip?) that some dj's actually play with the records :) derek ------- eggytoast.com ------- with lather thingy --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Unfortunately the larger percent of DJs nowadays with regular paying gigs and huge egos are the ones who fit this description - i.e. not taking much to be a DJ. Maybe it's just time to move to a place that regards the music before the personality (or lack thereof). m craque.net EggyToast(eggy@eggytoast.com)@Sat, Jul 27, 2002 at 06:58:54PM -0500:

quoted 29 lines At 06:26 PM 7/27/2002 -0400, you wrote:

> At 06:26 PM 7/27/2002 -0400, you wrote: > >revealing article > > > >http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/ptech/07/27/digital.disc.jockeys.ap/index.html > > > >my favorite quote: "It doesn't take much talent to be a DJ anymore. You > >just have to have a good flow of songs." > > It's still sad that after all this time and despite the creation of > documentamovies like "scratch," people still think DJ'ing simply involves > playing one song after another, completely disregarding the personal input > and skill fast mixing, scratching, and cutting involve. > > Ah well. From their POV, it's never taken much to be a DJ -- just records > and the ability to tell a beat. Don't tell those "hipsters" (I thought the > point of being a hipster is that you're hip?) that some dj's actually play > with the records :) > > derek > > ------- > eggytoast.com > ------- > with lather thingy > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

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quoted 7 lines It's still sad that after all this time and despite the creation of

> It's still sad that after all this time and despite the creation of > documentamovies like "scratch," people still think DJ'ing simply involves > playing one song after another, completely disregarding the personal input > and skill fast mixing, scratching, and cutting involve. > > Ah well. From their POV, it's never taken much to be a DJ -- just records > and the ability to tell a beat. Don't tell those "hipsters" (I thought

the

quoted 2 lines point of being a hipster is that you're hip?) that some dj's actually play

> point of being a hipster is that you're hip?) that some dj's actually play > with the records :)

On the other hand, a lot of dance music DJs will tell you it's dead easy too. I make my DJing be about my track selection - I don't bother with mixing, usually - DJ conventions bore me. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On one level it isn't a big deal to learn how to mix records, but it really is a trick to work a crowd with music, and an even bigger trick to keep a crowd with you when you break out unfamiliar music. And the biggest trick of all is to dramatize what you're doing into an actual performance. Go see Terrence Parker, Carlos Souffront, DJ Bone, Boo Williams, Anthony Shakir, Disco D, and you'll know there's more to DJing than not bumping the tone arm. I have On Sun, 28 Jul 2002, Andrew Hime wrote:

quoted 6 lines On the other hand, a lot of dance music DJs will tell you it's dead easy

> > On the other hand, a lot of dance music DJs will tell you it's dead easy > too. I make my DJing be about my track selection - I don't bother with > mixing, usually - DJ conventions bore me. > >

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All I have to say to this is that it isn't a big deal to learn how to play the guitar. Discuss. Kent williams(kent@avalon.net)@Sun, Jul 28, 2002 at 03:01:54PM -0500:

quoted 1 line On one level it isn't a big deal to learn how to mix records

> On one level it isn't a big deal to learn how to mix records

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I would argue for a sort of Turing-Machine Equivalence between learning an actual instrument, learning to make music on a computer, and DJ'ing. The basic skills involved can be acquired with a few months concentrated practice. Actually achieving mastery -- and more important, figuring out how to communicate and interact in a satisfying way with an audience through the indirect medium of performance -- is something 95% of people fail to do. Someone mentioned 'guitar troubadors' who parley 5 or 6 guitar chords into careers -- I suspect that someone who brings nothing else to the table except C G Em Am D will be ignored. At the same time if someone has something significant to communicate, 5 chords can be plenty. On Sun, 28 Jul 2002, Matthew Ross Davis wrote:

quoted 6 lines All I have to say to this is that it isn't a big deal to learn how

> All I have to say to this is that it isn't a big deal to learn how > to play the guitar. Discuss. > > Kent williams(kent@avalon.net)@Sun, Jul 28, 2002 at 03:01:54PM -0500: > > On one level it isn't a big deal to learn how to mix records >

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quoted 4 lines Someone mentioned 'guitar troubadors' who parley 5 or 6 guitar chords

> Someone mentioned 'guitar troubadors' who parley 5 or 6 guitar chords > into careers -- I suspect that someone who brings nothing else to the > table except C G Em Am D will be ignored. At the same time if someone > has something significant to communicate, 5 chords can be plenty.

Hell, not even five. A lot of good music involves 3 or even 2 chords, no more. Esp. IDM/techno/dance music, where it's usually modal anyway; house music is usually just one chord and a bass line with somebody crooning through a rack of FX. Yea house music. Paul Simon (the Bjork of folk) has been known to break out a little jazziness here or there, but most of his best tunes are very simple tablature-wise. Also, it does take a bit more talent to play guitar well as opposed to just putting your fingers on the right frets at the right time, as Jeff said. Personally I think the whole question of practice and talent has been made irrelevant in recent decades. Popstars tend towards the no-talent tons-of-practice look-good-for-the-camera side whilst many of our favorite artists tend towards the opposite: fuck practice, fuck the camera, we're talented. Does anybody else smell high school? There's DJs who cut it up and DJs who play one song after another- personally I was and am still daunted by the task of smoothly mixing Spring Heel Jack with Kid606 with the Jedi Knights with Like A Tim with Mr. Scruff with µ-ziq. So I stick/stuck to the latter. Probably why I never landed a regular paying gig(or maybe it was just the Like A Tim). Tom --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Sun, 28 Jul 2002, Kent williams wrote:

quoted 3 lines On one level it isn't a big deal to learn how to mix records, but it really

> On one level it isn't a big deal to learn how to mix records, but it really > is a trick to work a crowd with music, and an even bigger trick to keep a > crowd with you when you break out unfamiliar music.

hmm, that's interesting...i think the people who comme to hear me do it specifically *because* i play music they haven't heard... -rachel (aka dj pie) piesarenice.net --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

When I DJ, I also play live. So it's a case of spinning tunes and running sequences live via various pieces of MIDI gear. Now if that's so simple, why ain't everyone doing it? I respect good DJ's not because of their skills (I would say my skills are comparable) but because of 'both' their skills and choice of records. Also, more DJ's equals more diversity. Discuss ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kent williams" <kent@avalon.net> To: "Andrew Hime" <hime@charter.net> Cc: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 9:01 PM Subject: Re: [idm] Hard disk DJs 'spin' MP3s

quoted 1 line On one level it isn't a big deal to learn how to mix records, but it

> On one level it isn't a big deal to learn how to mix records, but it

really

quoted 2 lines is a trick to work a crowd with music, and an even bigger trick to keep a

> is a trick to work a crowd with music, and an even bigger trick to keep a > crowd with you when you break out unfamiliar music. And the biggest trick

of

quoted 20 lines all is to dramatize what you're doing into an actual performance.

> all is to dramatize what you're doing into an actual performance. > > Go see Terrence Parker, Carlos Souffront, DJ Bone, Boo Williams, > Anthony Shakir, Disco D, and you'll know there's more to DJing than > not bumping the tone arm. > > I have > On Sun, 28 Jul 2002, Andrew Hime wrote: > > > > On the other hand, a lot of dance music DJs will tell you it's dead easy > > too. I make my DJing be about my track selection - I don't bother with > > mixing, usually - DJ conventions bore me. > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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quoted 2 lines All I have to say to this is that it isn't a big deal to learn how

> All I have to say to this is that it isn't a big deal to learn how > to play the guitar. Discuss.

Not necessarily - as my attempts at learning have been hilariously bad. I'm able to do simple melodies on the keyboards, and that's about it so far. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

At 04:05 PM 7/28/2002, Doopeyduk@aol.com wrote:

quoted 10 lines In a message dated 7/29/02 4:06:54 AM, regis@sounding.com writes:

>In a message dated 7/29/02 4:06:54 AM, regis@sounding.com writes: > ><< All I have to say to this is that it isn't a big deal to learn how >to play the guitar. Discuss. > >> > >As a guitarist who also spins I can tell you that this discussion sounds a >lot like the one me and my pals had in high school over the 'lack of skill' >it took to play a lot of the stuff on the charts (Eagles, Stones, Deep >Purple, etc).

As a drummer who grew up in the era of the bands named above, I'd say that's a pretty glib statement. While you may not care for the style of what's being played on the "charts", it's a whole other ball of wax to say it takes no talent to play it. While I personally have had my fill of "classic rock" ages ago, it DOES take some talent to play like a Ritchie Blackmore, etc. - and a damn sight more of it than I have heard from many a pretender to the throne. Many of the studio musicians who pad those recordings are also top notch...and I would suggest that it is an undiscerning ear which says there's no skill involved. None of this even deals with that the fact that many of those groups were writing their own material. I think that a similar blurring of the lines has been made in this analogy with rock guitar and DJing...not all music or DJing is FOR the same purposes. Some DJs are known for their selection, some for their ability to "go somewhere" with the mix; some are smooth, some are turntabilists, etc. There's a vast difference between the Soulwax crew and John Tejada, Theo Parrish, Ellen Allien or Mira Calix, but they all kick it in their own way. Personally I could care less whether the disk that's being jockeyed is a hard one or a 12"; it all depends on the mood I'm in and what sounds good to my ears at the time. As long as it isn't the dreaded "UK Progressive" stuff, I'm willing to let it be what it is. And I'll even let that be what it is - I'll just vacate the place it's in .That's my .02 anyway. jeff --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Where do you begin when the discussion has taken many directions.... Jeff, gotta agree...and I believe Davis is making the same point on diversity.... THAT'S what makes a difference....... To me, the Dj is a mere vehicle. He may drive a nice looking car but if his car runs like shttt....who cares about the looks(save one or many who are induced/enticed by the image of things). But what if his "vehicle" looks like nothing but his engine purrs like a cat.....(Transliteration: What if the Dj doesnt have all the latest gear, blah-blah but his music selection is perfect(subjective of course) and his mixing is good)?.....it would more or less be dependable on the crowd @ that this juncture I guess....but that's, perhaps why diversity is best....

quoted 1 line Kent W. said:

>>Kent W. said:

it really is a trick to work a crowd with music, and an even bigger trick to keep a crowd with you when you break out unfamiliar music. Kent if this is the case, I am in for a rude awakening in a few weeks. Trying to do a couple of things that'll bring exposure......I dunno how these people are gonna react when they hear me drop some of this stuff..... Davis: Gotta agree with a comment you made that I make all the time.....

quoted 1 line Maybe it's just time to move to a place that regards the music

>>Maybe it's just time to move to a place that regards the music

before the personality (or lack thereof). Screw the Dj really, he/she could be a Martian from planet Tharnax spin'n......just make it soulful and smooth, the mixing smooth and its true-n-good I say....... Np.....SJU.... ----- Original Message ----- From: Matthew Ross Davis Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 1:15 PM To: EggyToast Cc: idm@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [idm] Hard disk DJs 'spin' MP3s Unfortunately the larger percent of DJs nowadays with regular paying gigs and huge egos are the ones who fit this description - i.e. not taking much to be a DJ. Maybe it's just time to move to a place that regards the music before the personality (or lack thereof). m craque.net EggyToast(eggy@eggytoast.com)@Sat, Jul 27, 2002 at 06:58:54PM -0500:

quoted 29 lines At 06:26 PM 7/27/2002 -0400, you wrote:

> At 06:26 PM 7/27/2002 -0400, you wrote: > >revealing article > > > >http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/ptech/07/27/digital.disc.jockeys.ap/index.html > > > >my favorite quote: "It doesn't take much talent to be a DJ anymore. You > >just have to have a good flow of songs." > > It's still sad that after all this time and despite the creation of > documentamovies like "scratch," people still think DJ'ing simply involves > playing one song after another, completely disregarding the personal input > and skill fast mixing, scratching, and cutting involve. > > Ah well. From their POV, it's never taken much to be a DJ -- just records > and the ability to tell a beat. Don't tell those "hipsters" (I thought the > point of being a hipster is that you're hip?) that some dj's actually play > with the records :) > > derek > > ------- > eggytoast.com > ------- > with lather thingy > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

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Yeah, that's why I like clubs with dj booths, I don't really want to know how the sound is being made, I just want to enjoy good djing, whether its vinyl, cd, mp3, etc... On Sun, 28 Jul 2002, Omar Hackett wrote:

quoted 80 lines Where do you begin when the discussion has taken many directions....

> Where do you begin when the discussion has taken many directions.... > > Jeff, gotta agree...and I believe Davis is making the same point on diversity.... > THAT'S what makes a difference....... > > To me, the Dj is a mere vehicle. He may drive a nice looking car but if his > car runs like shttt....who cares about the looks(save one or many who are > induced/enticed by the image of things). But what if his "vehicle" looks like > nothing but his engine purrs like a cat.....(Transliteration: What if the Dj doesnt > have all the latest gear, blah-blah but his music selection is perfect(subjective of course) and his mixing is good)?.....it would more or less be dependable on the crowd @ that this juncture I guess....but that's, perhaps why diversity is best.... > > >>Kent W. said: > it really > is a trick to work a crowd with music, and an even bigger trick to keep a > crowd with you when you break out unfamiliar music. > > Kent if this is the case, I am in for a rude awakening in a few weeks. Trying to > do a couple of things that'll bring exposure......I dunno how these people are > gonna react when they hear me drop some of this stuff..... > > Davis: Gotta agree with a comment you made that I make all the time..... > > >>Maybe it's just time to move to a place that regards the music > before the personality (or lack thereof). > > Screw the Dj really, he/she could be a Martian from planet Tharnax spin'n......just > make it soulful and smooth, the mixing smooth and its true-n-good I say....... > > Np.....SJU.... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Matthew Ross Davis > Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 1:15 PM > To: EggyToast > Cc: idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: Re: [idm] Hard disk DJs 'spin' MP3s > > Unfortunately the larger percent of DJs nowadays with regular paying gigs > and huge egos are the ones who fit this description - i.e. not taking much > to be a DJ. Maybe it's just time to move to a place that regards the music > before the personality (or lack thereof). > > m > craque.net > > > EggyToast(eggy@eggytoast.com)@Sat, Jul 27, 2002 at 06:58:54PM -0500: > > At 06:26 PM 7/27/2002 -0400, you wrote: > > >revealing article > > > > > >http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/ptech/07/27/digital.disc.jockeys.ap/index.html > > > > > >my favorite quote: "It doesn't take much talent to be a DJ anymore. You > > >just have to have a good flow of songs." > > > > It's still sad that after all this time and despite the creation of > > documentamovies like "scratch," people still think DJ'ing simply involves > > playing one song after another, completely disregarding the personal input > > and skill fast mixing, scratching, and cutting involve. > > > > Ah well. From their POV, it's never taken much to be a DJ -- just records > > and the ability to tell a beat. Don't tell those "hipsters" (I thought the > > point of being a hipster is that you're hip?) that some dj's actually play > > with the records :) > > > > derek > > > > ------- > > eggytoast.com > > ------- > > with lather thingy > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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quoted 1 line whilst many of our favorite

>>whilst many of our favorite

artists tend towards the opposite: fuck practice, fuck the camera, we're talented. Does anybody else smell high school? That's really a primitive standpoint in my eyes.....Artists who dont shine and grin for the camera(can somebody say 'attention-seeker'(s)), and who dont practice are just what they say they are.....ARTISTS... The above comment is not to denote the significance of practice and planning, however, inspiration and creativity are mere outdated relics and tales of the ancient it would seem to you then......?. I personally like to just go where I feel, not think or plan for, but feel. Mind you we all want the entire package to be good, but to me creativity is unique expression the individual brings that makes their music, djing, productions, what-have-u, different. Its like the difference of having one of those prefab homes that all your neighbors have, or building your own home custom to you and your family(family can be seen as the crowd here).....practice is good, but creativity is a extremely unique thing.... I personally dislike all the Folly-wood type of stuff, and thats just me....and respect those who dont go on camera.....it's a way of just being about the substance without all the glitter and attention......& hey, it was only when I was a young lad did I jump in front of the camera and say cheeeeeese, put the rabbit ears up behind a ma-f*cka's skull and all that.......not now when I am much older. Just my poor opinion, back to sleep I go......good string though, IMO, AGAIN....... NP....the blades of this fan.....

Personally its taken me 15 years of music study not to suck, and that includes playing in both live bands and djing for a living for a while, and now I like working with some crazy mp3 mixing software that lets me mix,preview, and scratch. The Cut Chemist, who is one of the most mega vinyl heads down here just switched to the new pioneer tables with the scrtaching. Economically its hard to keep up with purchasing all the vinyl. And it really doesn't gurauntee that the tracks will be better just cause they're on vinyl. I find tons of high quality music for free download on sites like mp3.com and also on indie mp3 label sites. On Sun, 28 Jul 2002, Omar Hackett wrote:

quoted 25 lines whilst many of our favorite

> > >>whilst many of our favorite > artists tend towards the opposite: fuck practice, fuck the camera, we're > talented. Does anybody else smell high school? > > That's really a primitive standpoint in my eyes.....Artists who dont > shine and grin for the camera(can somebody say 'attention-seeker'(s)), > and who dont practice are just what they say they are.....ARTISTS... > > The above comment is not to denote the significance of practice and planning, > however, inspiration and creativity are mere outdated relics and tales of the ancient > it would seem to you then......?. > > I personally like to just go where I feel, not think or plan for, but > feel. Mind you we all want the entire package to be good, but to me > creativity is unique expression the individual brings that makes their music, djing, productions, what-have-u, different. Its like the difference of having one of those prefab homes that all your neighbors have, or > building your own home custom to you and your family(family can be seen as > the crowd here).....practice is good, but creativity is a extremely unique thing.... > > I personally dislike all the Folly-wood type of stuff, and thats just me....and respect those who dont go on camera.....it's a way of just being about the substance without all the glitter and attention......& hey, it was only when I was a young lad did I jump in front of the camera and say cheeeeeese, put the rabbit ears up behind a ma-f*cka's skull and all that.......not now when I am much older. > > Just my poor opinion, back to sleep I go......good string though, IMO, AGAIN....... > > NP....the blades of this fan..... >

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quoted 1 line Maybe it's just time to move to a place that regards the music

>>Maybe it's just time to move to a place that regards the music

before the personality (or lack thereof).