On Mon, 1 Jul 1996, Eric Frans wrote:
quoted 15 lines On Mon, 1 Jul 1996, Todd Roberts wrote:
> On Mon, 1 Jul 1996, Todd Roberts wrote:
> } Not that I want to open the can of worms again but being the editor of URB,
> } I couldn't very well just sit around and let Tamara take all the heat... As
> } far as I'm concerned, and from what I've seen here on this list, you guys
> } are for the most part, a pedantic bunch of train-spotting wankers --
>
> Nice. You expect calling us 'train-spotting wankers' is not going to open
> up a can of worms? At least the original message criticizing Urb didn't
> resort to name calling. I would think that you as an editor would
> understand the ineffectiveness of stooping to such a level. I must agree,
> however, that sometimes we can be a bit pedantic here when discussing
> music, but what do you expect to find on a mailing list devoted to
> to a specific topic like this? For most of us, this type of music is one
> our great passions in life, so of course we are going to get off on
> discussing the smallest details.quoted 2 lines } anxious to get info on the next shit but with little regard for quality or
> } anxious to get info on the next shit but with little regard for quality or
> } musical perspective.quoted 16 lines Why do you think we subscribe to this list? Just to get the newest
> Why do you think we subscribe to this list? Just to get the newest
> information on crap releases?! I (and most of the others here I presume)
> have gone out of our way to subscribe to this list in order to find more
> QUALITY IDM releases and discover more about our favorite IDM artists.
> As far as the readers here lacking 'musical perspective', I think you are
> way off on that. Most of us have arrived at the conclusion that IDM is
> one our favorite music types because we DO have musical perspective. I
> and probably quite a few others dabbled in industrial and more club
> oriented electronic music before realizing that those genres had
> far less quality releases than in the IDM genre. In addition, most of the
> readers here have a very in depth knowledge of the progression of
> electronic music over the years and they know how that relates to IDM. If
> that's not musical perspective than what is?
>
> } This list often takes a tone close to that of the UK
> } press: If it's new, then it must be good. Bollocks. quoted 5 lines Why do you think people here take the time to post lengthy reviews of the
> Why do you think people here take the time to post lengthy reviews of the
> new IDM releases? Just to get finger exercise? These are written to
> inform those of us who haven't heard the releases yet as to whether they
> are worthy of purchase or not. Just because it's new doesn't mean it's
> good and most of us here know that.quoted 3 lines } As this 'electronic
> } As this 'electronic
> } dance' scene grows, there is a larger audience to appeal to, much larger
> } than a few subscribing to an internet mailing list. quoted 29 lines That's exactly why we are subscribed to this list. We have sorted through
> That's exactly why we are subscribed to this list. We have sorted through
> a lot of the crap in the current growing electronic music scene and
> arrived here. I assume you are mentioning this because you are trying to
> appeal to a larger electronic music listening audience with Urb than the
> 'few' of us here. Well, that's fine. You're right, if you tried catering
> Urb to only the IDM listeners, your magazine sales would probably decline
> and you would eventually have to close shop. However, that's largely due
> to Urb being an American magazine. If there was a British magazine
> devoted soley to this type of music, it probably would struggle compared
> to Muzik, NME, etc., but it would most likely survive since the scene is
> bigger there. I read Urb myself and I don't expect you to completely
> change the format or anything like that. However, it might be nice to see
> a little more coverage of this type of music in your mag. One of your
> best issues for me was one of your recent ones with articles on Spacetime
> Continuum, Underworld, Dave Clarke, Subtropic, and Ken Ishii and reviews
> of Atom Heart/Tetsu Inoue/Bill Laswell, Threads (a nice review of the IDM
> comp 8) ), Global Communication, Dave Clarke, Elektroids and the
> Spacetime Continuum/Autechre show in L.A. Plus that issue had the
> 'Experimental Electronik' page by Tamara, which had a lot of great stuff
> on it. I hope that page becomes a staple of your mag, by the way.
> However, this issue is not the norm for Urb. I guess it's hard to please
> everyone since you choose to cover such a broad spectrum of music from
> some IDM to hip hop to acid jazz to club music. Still, though, Urb is
> the best American mag I've seen so far that covers any electronic music.
>
> } What's really ironic is
> } that this whole 'flame' started as a discussion of groups playing at
> } Organic: Orbital, Orb, Underworld, Chemical Bros. etc. Definitely nothing
> } new. quoted 17 lines No they aren't new, but they are definitely quality bands in my mind.
> No they aren't new, but they are definitely quality bands in my mind.
> Since I live in Arizona it is a rare treat to get to see this type of
> line-up, so I made sure I went. I bet a lot of the U.K. readers would
> have liked to have had the chance to see this show as well. The people on
> this list are not against discussing artists that have been around awhile
> either, by the way. Unless you just subscribed you would have seen a lot
> of mention regarding the new Orbital offering and some mention of the
> Orb's Peel sessions.
>
> } Those publications you speak so highly of from the UK are in fierce
> } competition with each other and consequently are aimed at provided the
> } latest 'info' or gossip (in many cases) that they can get their hands on.
>
> Yes there is some gossip in those mags, but they make sure to cover the
> newest releases possible, which is nice because this gives the reader a
> chance to buy the music after reading a review rather than buying the
> music and _then_ reading the review. 8) quoted 3 lines } Besides, most of this music you guys gloat over originates in the UK, a
> } Besides, most of this music you guys gloat over originates in the UK, a
> } place where the word 'trainspotting' doesn't always have the best
> } connotation. quoted 4 lines } Though we are definitely enthusiasts of electronic music, it
> } Though we are definitely enthusiasts of electronic music, it
> } is not our only focus. Relax, Tamara has only been on staff for just over 4
> } months, before that I was the ONLY full-time editor. Tamara is dope and
> } she's doing as much as she can to further the music.quoted 5 lines Tamara is definitely doing a good job as far as I can see through
> Tamara is definitely doing a good job as far as I can see through
> reading Urb and her posts to this list. In fact, I'm much more impressed
> with her writing and attitude in general than I am with you (even though
> she 'has only been on staff for just over 4 months' 8) ). I hope you keep
> her on your staff because she is definitely enhancing Urb. quoted 20 lines Why have you even subscribed to this list? I suspect it is merely to be a
> Why have you even subscribed to this list? I suspect it is merely to be a
> lurker and gather information about this type of music for your magazine.
> If so, I have no problems with that. I would be very happy to see more
> coverage of IDM style music in Urb. However, when you surface to
> blatantly criticize the readers of this list without even once
> discussing rationallly the contents of the original message criticizing
> Urb, I do have a problem with that. Basically, the original message
> criticized Urb for having out of date information most of the time.
> Additionally, it was said that Muzik magazine was more up to date in the
> techno scene than Urb. I could see how you might get a little bent out of
> shape about these comments, but in my opinion you aren't handling these
> criticisms very well, especially considering that you are the EDITOR of
> the magazine in question. Tamara at least took some time to explain the
> problem with comparing Urb to a British magazine with tons of money poured
> into it. You on the other hand, have not shed any more light on the
> original criticisms and instead have only annoyed me and poorly
> represented Urb. Granted, there were a few joking criticisms about Urb
> not having as many pictures of Latina dancers as there used to be, but I'm
> fairly sure you are intelligent enough to realize those were meant in
> jest.quoted 3 lines You should be glad I'm already a reader of Urb because if there are any
> You should be glad I'm already a reader of Urb because if there are any
> people out there on this list considering reading it you probably just
> made up their minds for them.