IDM Mailing Archive

2000-01-14 21:41JohnAdam, >Can someone please explain to me why UR and the other Detroit labels are >referring

From:: John <turbo@zip.com.au>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Cc:: Adam J Weitzman <Adam.J.Weitzman@newsedge.com>
Date:: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 08:41:39 +1100
Subject:: (idm) Re: idm) Fwd: WG: 430 West joins UR fight against Majors (fwd)

Adam,

quoted 4 lines Can someone please explain to me why UR and the other Detroit labels are

>Can someone please explain to me why UR and the other Detroit labels are >referring to this as a "copyright infringement?" In the US, at least, >it is not infringement to cover a song, even without the permission of >the song's originator.

That would seem to be the case, but sometimes it get's shady... take the techno version of O'Fortuna, they did it without Carl Off's estates' permission and lost the legal case to have the right 'to do a cover of it'. In this case I think they were actually sued for 'acceptable use' or somesuch but it just goes to show the law is not always what it seems or says!

quoted 4 lines I agree that it is a slimy, scummy thing to do, and that pressure should

>I agree that it is a slimy, scummy thing to do, and that pressure should >be applied to companies like Sony Germany and BMG when they try to pull >crap like this (indeed, it caused Sony Germany to give up on the idea), >but to call it "blatant copyright infringement" is false.

Well from what limited understanding I have of the situation garnered through various music email list I am on "blatant copyright infringement" is indeed correct because the it would seem that the people behind the 'cover' are not giving any credit to the original composer "DJ Rolando" on their version / product. This was apparently the case with the promos that Sony first sent out. It may or may not be the case with BMG version, but if it is then it definitely justifiable legal grounds to fight it. The only rays of sunshine to come from this are the strengthening of the underground by the blatant disregard of the majors for it and their music, and the fact that this great track will now get a wider release through 430West with some great remixers... Jeff Mills and Mad Mike... I can't wait to hear their remixes and have the original on CD unmixed.. (I have it on the UR Aztec Mystic Mix CD). Regards, John http://Aural-Industries.com.au --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

2000-01-14 21:55Chris Fahey> > In the US, at least, > > it is not infringement to cover a song, even without the > >

From:: Chris Fahey <chrisf@raremedium.com>
To:: John <turbo@zip.com.au>, <idm@hyperreal.org>
Cc:: Adam J Weitzman <Adam.J.Weitzman@newsedge.com>
Date:: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 16:55:24 -0500
Subject:: RE: (idm) Re: idm) Fwd: WG: 430 West joins UR fight against Major s (fwd)

quoted 3 lines In the US, at least,

> > In the US, at least, > > it is not infringement to cover a song, even without the > > permission of the song's originator.

Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the above statement absolutely 100% wrong? You can do a *parody*, but a cover is out of the question. You can't even sing Happy Birthday on TV without paying somebody. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

2000-01-14 22:32John ThelinI'm new to the list, and usually I would wait a bit and then delurk, but I had to answer t

From:: John Thelin <teaflax@erols.com>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 17:32:48 -0500
Subject:: Re: (idm) Re: idm) Fwd: WG: 430 West joins UR fight against Major s
Reply to:: RE: (idm) Re: idm) Fwd: WG: 430 West joins UR fight against Major s (fwd)

I'm new to the list, and usually I would wait a bit and then delurk, but I had to answer this. Chris Fahey wrote:

quoted 9 lines In the US, at least,

>>> In the US, at least, >>> it is not infringement to cover a song, even without the >>> permission of the song's originator. > > Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the above statement > absolutely 100% wrong? > > You can do a *parody*, but a cover is out of the question. You can't even > sing Happy Birthday on TV without paying somebody.

Yes, you have to pay the composers when you do a cover, but no one can stop you from doing one. _However_, you cannot make any major changes to the song without getting the original writer's permission (although this seems to apply more lyrically than musically), hence you can't do a parody version without clearing the changes. For instance, The Bangles managed to stop 'Walk With an Erection' because no one had checked with them, whereas they couldn't have done anything about someone doing a note-for-note rendition of 'Walk Like an Egyptian' as long as composers credit was given and appropriate royalties were paid. -- JohnT/CountV "Cunnilingus and psychiatry brought us to this." - Tony Soprano Design by Coercion - New Years update, with image manipulation section; http://www.m-ideas.com/coercion/index.htm --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

2000-01-14 21:56Adam J WeitzmanJohn wrote: > Adam, > > >Can someone please explain to me why UR and the other > >Detroit

From:: Adam J Weitzman <Adam.J.Weitzman@newsedge.com>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 16:56:18 -0500
Subject:: (idm) Re: idm) Fwd: WG: 430 West joins UR fight against Majors (fwd)

John wrote:

quoted 12 lines Adam,

> Adam, > > >Can someone please explain to me why UR and the other > >Detroit labels are referring to this as a "copyright > >infringement?" In the US, at least, it is not infringement > >to cover a song, even without the permission of > >the song's originator. > > That would seem to be the case, but sometimes it get's shady... > take the techno version of O'Fortuna, they did it without Carl > Off's estates' permission and lost the legal case to have the right > 'to do a cover of it'.

I always thought that was because they sampled a gigantic chunk of someone else's performance of it without permission. That's a different situation altogether.

quoted 9 lines Well from what limited understanding I have of the situation

> Well from what limited understanding I have of the situation > garnered through various music email list I am on "blatant > copyright infringement" is indeed correct because the it would > seem that the people behind the 'cover' are not giving any > credit to the original composer "DJ Rolando" on their version / > product. This was apparently the case with the promos that > Sony first sent out. It may or may not be the case with BMG > version, but if it is then it definitely justifiable legal grounds to > fight it.

Yeah, that was the explanation Dave Walker gave yesterday, which made much more sense. Very little of what I have read about this so far has mentioned that fact, though, so it seemed to me like they were confusing two issues. But I understand now. ObIDM: I got the ElPH 20' To 2000 CD a couple of days ago. Very spooky and extremely cool. Coil are really coming out with some terrific stuff recently. -- Adam J Weitzman, NewsEdge Corp. (soon RoweCom Inc.) http://www.newsedge.com - http://www.individual.com "Humor is the best way of dealing with complete and utter nonsense." - John Lydon --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

2000-01-14 21:56laermOn Fri, 14 Jan 2000, Adam J Weitzman wrote: > ObIDM: I got the ElPH 20' To 2000 CD a coupl

From:: laerm <laerm@voicenet.com>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 16:56:36 -0500 (EST)
Subject:: Re: (idm) Re: idm) Fwd: WG: 430 West joins UR fight against Majors (fwd)
Reply to:: (idm) Re: idm) Fwd: WG: 430 West joins UR fight against Majors (fwd)

On Fri, 14 Jan 2000, Adam J Weitzman wrote:

quoted 3 lines ObIDM: I got the ElPH 20' To 2000 CD a couple of days ago. Very

> ObIDM: I got the ElPH 20' To 2000 CD a couple of days ago. Very > spooky and extremely cool. Coil are really coming out with some > terrific stuff recently.

i can't think of a time when coil didn't put out terrific stuff. * #### a disturbance in a system. #### laerm. @voicenet.com ##:# if you ever get close to a human/and human behaviour/be ready to get confused/there's definitely no logic/to human behaviour icq 5562209 but yet so irresistible --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

2000-01-14 22:52Adam J WeitzmanChris Fahey wrote: > > > In the US, at least, > > > it is not infringement to cover a song

From:: Adam J Weitzman <Adam.J.Weitzman@newsedge.com>
To:: IDM Mailing List <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 17:52:46 -0500
Subject:: Re: (idm) Re: idm) Fwd: WG: 430 West joins UR fight against Majors (fwd)

Chris Fahey wrote:

quoted 9 lines In the US, at least,

> > > In the US, at least, > > > it is not infringement to cover a song, even without the > > > permission of the song's originator. > > Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't > the above statement absolutely 100% wrong? > > You can't even sing Happy Birthday on TV without paying > somebody.

Oh, yes, you absolutely have to pay someone. But you don't need their permission. I am still not a lawyer, but if you want to cover someone else's song, you can get what's called a "compulsory mechanical license," which you can get once a song is released in the US, and once you get one, you can cover the song. You must pay for every copy of the song you make, and credit the writer on the media, but the artist's or publisher's permission is not required. Apparently, this is the distinction in the Sony Germany vs UR case that I missed, that Sony had promos being sold in retail stores for which they were not crediting or paying DJ Rolando. That was just stupidity on their part. I researched a couple of web sites for this information. Email me if you want the addresses. John Thelin wrote:

quoted 10 lines Chris Fahey wrote:

> Chris Fahey wrote: > > > You can do a *parody* > > Yes, you have to pay the composers when you do a cover, > but no one can stop you from doing one. _However_, you > cannot make any major changes to the song without > getting the original writer's permission (although this seems to > apply more lyrically than musically), hence you can't do a > parody version without clearing the changes.

2 Live Crew won a landmark Supreme Court case over this one, protecting their right to do a somewhat off-color parody of Roy Orbison's "Oh, Pretty Woman." Parody is protected fair use under copyright law. See http://www.benedict.com/audio/crew/crew.htm for details. -- Adam J Weitzman, NewsEdge Corp. (soon RoweCom Inc.) http://www.newsedge.com - http://www.individual.com "Humor is the best way of dealing with complete and utter nonsense." - John Lydon --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

(idm) Re: idm) Fwd: WG: 430 West joins UR fight against Majors (fwd)