IDM Mailing Archive

anonymous wrote: There is nothing wrong with making music for yourself. That's missing the point. There is something wrong with charging me $15 + $7 in ticketbastard fees to go watch two guys do a bunch of shit i sit here and do with my nord modular anyway. Let me elaborate on this. This recent autechre tour has become the joke of the nord-modular list. For those who don't know, the Nord Modular is one of many synthesizers available on the market today. It also happens to be ae's primary synth, if not the only thing they use on some of their tracks. One of the many capabilities of the modular, depending on the user's experience and skill, is that one can actually write chaotic evolving patches. Most of us know how to do it by now, and we all know Autechre does. So this entire week the list has been filled with "autechre concert" patches from people like me pissed that they paid money to go hear a demo of a synthesizer... ...and some of them are *dead on*. perfect. which basically shows that autechre is pulling a big "fuck you" to their fans. any of us who know how to use the nord can do this crap. it takes a bit of practice learning the ramp controls and logic functions, but once you've got it down you can be Instant-Autechre. This, to me, is not music. It's a patch on a synth. I can sit here at home and listen to my own versions of it instead of paying $22 to stand in a dark, hot crowded room and listen to Sean Booth act like he's actually doing something innovative. This is "wankery" to me. It's boring. Those of you listening to it thinking "man, that's crazy...they're switching from 3/4 to 9/15 and back"...well, no, they aren't. it's a bunch of algorithms on a synth doing it, and it wouldn't matter if there was someone in front of the synth or not. So obviously, I wanted to know why Roxi liked it (do try to read all the posts before replying next time ;), not "why she lacks the capability of knowing any better" or however that was twisted. I think a lot of people like this crap because it's Autechre, and Autechre is cool, so they're supposed to like it. That's just lame. There are hundreds of bands out there doing this kind of stuff, only better. Richie Devine writes his own dsp code for his tracks, for chrissakes...Phoenecia melded miami booty bass with idm...even some of Jake Mandell's stuff has a weird jazzy feel on top of the clicks and pops...and, of course, even though RDJ made up all that junk about making his own custom synths and software, he still did some amazing stuff with supercollider and has always been a positive innovator in the electronic music scene. I just wonder if all the same people would be listening to a cd of this music if it was some unknown band. I doubt it, but who knows. This isn't an attack, so please don't read it that way. "Anything that separates us is junk. Cause when it rains, both the pope and the prostitute get wet" -Carlos Santana on racism :::...\|/unity in diversity\|/..::: --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

But what about the people who know nothing about Nord Modular?! :) --- Gilly <galaxey@sdccu.net> wrote: > anonymous wrote:

quoted 100 lines There is nothing wrong with making music for

> > There is nothing wrong with making music for > yourself. That's missing the > point. > > There is something wrong with charging me $15 + $7 > in ticketbastard fees to > go watch two guys do a bunch of shit i sit here and > do with my nord modular > anyway. > > Let me elaborate on this. > > This recent autechre tour has become the joke of the > nord-modular list. For > those who don't know, the Nord Modular is one of > many synthesizers available > on the market today. It also happens to be ae's > primary synth, if not the > only thing they use on some of their tracks. > > One of the many capabilities of the modular, > depending on the user's > experience and skill, is that one can actually write > chaotic evolving > patches. Most of us know how to do it by now, and > we all know Autechre > does. > > So this entire week the list has been filled with > "autechre concert" patches > from people like me pissed that they paid money to > go hear a demo of a > synthesizer... > > ...and some of them are *dead on*. perfect. > > which basically shows that autechre is pulling a big > "fuck you" to their > fans. any of us who know how to use the nord can do > this crap. it takes a > bit of practice learning the ramp controls and logic > functions, but once > you've got it down you can be Instant-Autechre. > > This, to me, is not music. It's a patch on a synth. > I can sit here at home > and listen to my own versions of it instead of > paying $22 to stand in a > dark, hot crowded room and listen to Sean Booth act > like he's actually doing > something innovative. > > This is "wankery" to me. It's boring. Those of you > listening to it > thinking "man, that's crazy...they're switching from > 3/4 to 9/15 and > back"...well, no, they aren't. it's a bunch of > algorithms on a synth doing > it, and it wouldn't matter if there was someone in > front of the synth or > not. > > So obviously, I wanted to know why Roxi liked it (do > try to read all the > posts before replying next time ;), not "why she > lacks the capability of > knowing any better" or however that was twisted. I > think a lot of people > like this crap because it's Autechre, and Autechre > is cool, so they're > supposed to like it. That's just lame. There are > hundreds of bands out > there doing this kind of stuff, only better. Richie > Devine writes his own > dsp code for his tracks, for chrissakes...Phoenecia > melded miami booty bass > with idm...even some of Jake Mandell's stuff has a > weird jazzy feel on top > of the clicks and pops...and, of course, even though > RDJ made up all that > junk about making his own custom synths and > software, he still did some > amazing stuff with supercollider and has always been > a positive innovator in > the electronic music scene. > > I just wonder if all the same people would be > listening to a cd of this > music if it was some unknown band. I doubt it, but > who knows. This isn't > an attack, so please don't read it that way. > "Anything that separates us is junk. Cause when it > rains, both the pope and > the prostitute get wet" > -Carlos Santana on racism > :::...\|/unity in diversity\|/..::: > > >

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===== http://www.peoplesound.com/artist/akabenhatchelt ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

As much as I don't care what's in my burger (to a certain extent offcourse >:-), as long as it tastes good, I don't care how the music is made, as long as I like it...and I like Confield, no matter what people say or do to convice me otherwise! TheTec Den Haag, The Netherlands http://www.fredscape.com np: Ladytron - 604 --- Ben Hatchelt <hatchelt@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > But what about the people who know nothing about Nord

quoted 105 lines Modular?! :)

> Modular?! :) > > --- Gilly <galaxey@sdccu.net> wrote: > anonymous > wrote: > > > > There is nothing wrong with making music for > > yourself. That's missing the > > point. > > > > There is something wrong with charging me $15 + $7 > > in ticketbastard fees to > > go watch two guys do a bunch of shit i sit here and > > do with my nord modular > > anyway. > > > > Let me elaborate on this. > > > > This recent autechre tour has become the joke of the > > nord-modular list. For > > those who don't know, the Nord Modular is one of > > many synthesizers available > > on the market today. It also happens to be ae's > > primary synth, if not the > > only thing they use on some of their tracks. > > > > One of the many capabilities of the modular, > > depending on the user's > > experience and skill, is that one can actually write > > chaotic evolving > > patches. Most of us know how to do it by now, and > > we all know Autechre > > does. > > > > So this entire week the list has been filled with > > "autechre concert" patches > > from people like me pissed that they paid money to > > go hear a demo of a > > synthesizer... > > > > ...and some of them are *dead on*. perfect. > > > > which basically shows that autechre is pulling a big > > "fuck you" to their > > fans. any of us who know how to use the nord can do > > this crap. it takes a > > bit of practice learning the ramp controls and logic > > functions, but once > > you've got it down you can be Instant-Autechre. > > > > This, to me, is not music. It's a patch on a synth. > > I can sit here at home > > and listen to my own versions of it instead of > > paying $22 to stand in a > > dark, hot crowded room and listen to Sean Booth act > > like he's actually doing > > something innovative. > > > > This is "wankery" to me. It's boring. Those of you > > listening to it > > thinking "man, that's crazy...they're switching from > > 3/4 to 9/15 and > > back"...well, no, they aren't. it's a bunch of > > algorithms on a synth doing > > it, and it wouldn't matter if there was someone in > > front of the synth or > > not. > > > > So obviously, I wanted to know why Roxi liked it (do > > try to read all the > > posts before replying next time ;), not "why she > > lacks the capability of > > knowing any better" or however that was twisted. I > > think a lot of people > > like this crap because it's Autechre, and Autechre > > is cool, so they're > > supposed to like it. That's just lame. There are > > hundreds of bands out > > there doing this kind of stuff, only better. Richie > > Devine writes his own > > dsp code for his tracks, for chrissakes...Phoenecia > > melded miami booty bass > > with idm...even some of Jake Mandell's stuff has a > > weird jazzy feel on top > > of the clicks and pops...and, of course, even though > > RDJ made up all that > > junk about making his own custom synths and > > software, he still did some > > amazing stuff with supercollider and has always been > > a positive innovator in > > the electronic music scene. > > > > I just wonder if all the same people would be > > listening to a cd of this > > music if it was some unknown band. I doubt it, but > > who knows. This isn't > > an attack, so please don't read it that way. > > "Anything that separates us is junk. Cause when it > > rains, both the pope and > > the prostitute get wet" > > -Carlos Santana on racism > > :::...\|/unity in diversity\|/..::: > > > > > > >

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===== Pjotr Stam || teccie@mindless.com http://www.fredscape.com Den Haag, The Netherlands ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I think it is funny that in other genre's of music people don't feel cheated when they hear new music from artist like Korn, limp biscuit, slipknot, and more older and reputable artist like dave matthews, helmet, sunny day real estate, tool, etc, based on how they write their songs. I mean, when is the last time you heard someone say, "yeah, I heard the new tool album and it sucks, I can do all that stuff they do." I don't know about you guys, but i am not interested in equipment used or how this sound is being created (at least, not when I rate albums), I am interested in how it actually sounds and how those sounds effect me or how they make me feel while listening to it. When I saw autechre, yeah, it got kind of repetitious, but it was simply amazing how beautiful that repetition played as a role in their music. Throbbing beats popunding my chest with such anxiety, yet under such immense control, that was beautiful. on 5/21/01 1:32 AM, Gilly at galaxey@sdccu.net wrote:

quoted 63 lines anonymous wrote:

> anonymous wrote: > > There is nothing wrong with making music for yourself. That's missing the > point. > > There is something wrong with charging me $15 + $7 in ticketbastard fees to > go watch two guys do a bunch of shit i sit here and do with my nord modular > anyway. > > Let me elaborate on this. > > This recent autechre tour has become the joke of the nord-modular list. For > those who don't know, the Nord Modular is one of many synthesizers available > on the market today. It also happens to be ae's primary synth, if not the > only thing they use on some of their tracks. > > One of the many capabilities of the modular, depending on the user's > experience and skill, is that one can actually write chaotic evolving > patches. Most of us know how to do it by now, and we all know Autechre > does. > > So this entire week the list has been filled with "autechre concert" patches > from people like me pissed that they paid money to go hear a demo of a > synthesizer... > > ...and some of them are *dead on*. perfect. > > which basically shows that autechre is pulling a big "fuck you" to their > fans. any of us who know how to use the nord can do this crap. it takes a > bit of practice learning the ramp controls and logic functions, but once > you've got it down you can be Instant-Autechre. > > This, to me, is not music. It's a patch on a synth. I can sit here at home > and listen to my own versions of it instead of paying $22 to stand in a > dark, hot crowded room and listen to Sean Booth act like he's actually doing > something innovative. > > This is "wankery" to me. It's boring. Those of you listening to it > thinking "man, that's crazy...they're switching from 3/4 to 9/15 and > back"...well, no, they aren't. it's a bunch of algorithms on a synth doing > it, and it wouldn't matter if there was someone in front of the synth or > not. > > So obviously, I wanted to know why Roxi liked it (do try to read all the > posts before replying next time ;), not "why she lacks the capability of > knowing any better" or however that was twisted. I think a lot of people > like this crap because it's Autechre, and Autechre is cool, so they're > supposed to like it. That's just lame. There are hundreds of bands out > there doing this kind of stuff, only better. Richie Devine writes his own > dsp code for his tracks, for chrissakes...Phoenecia melded miami booty bass > with idm...even some of Jake Mandell's stuff has a weird jazzy feel on top > of the clicks and pops...and, of course, even though RDJ made up all that > junk about making his own custom synths and software, he still did some > amazing stuff with supercollider and has always been a positive innovator in > the electronic music scene. > > I just wonder if all the same people would be listening to a cd of this > music if it was some unknown band. I doubt it, but who knows. This isn't > an attack, so please don't read it that way. > "Anything that separates us is junk. Cause when it rains, both the pope and > the prostitute get wet" > -Carlos Santana on racism > :::...\|/unity in diversity\|/..:::

Peter "Pachinko" Ý - http://www.mp3.com/pachinko - --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Has anyone stopped to think that what we are seeing now in the music scene, and in particular, with Ae's chaos, is the same movement that art had in the early 20th century? What is art? is a toilet seat on a pedestal art? or is it just a toilet seat? I forget the name of the movement, but they did things like putting their shoe on display, a white canvas, or writing random words on a wall in free thought- totaly disconnected an surreal. What is art? Is it art because you say it is, or because it is pretty? Personaly, experiementalism is ok. But it is just that, experimentation. The first phase in your development towards your art. It's the testing of boundaries, or the "rules' of music / art. The formula that one must follow to be accepted. In many ways you can see it as an infintile phase. Your first steps towards understanding something for what it really is by stripping it down form what we think it should be. People are really stressing out with the latest autechre stuff. Do I think it is music? Probably not. Listenable? No, not really. I'm certainly not going to buy it. Do I hate what they are doing? Well, ofcourse I'd love something more structured, but that's ok. Autechre are in this phase right now of experimentation. The sooner it is over, the better... but, it may never be over. They may fade away only to be remembered as the random duo. And that is their choice. It all come's down to doing what you want to do. If this is what they want, fine. but don't stress about it. Don't try and read quality into something random. It's like trying to smell shit for an hour long while saying to yourself "ok, think this is a rose, common brain, stop thinking it's shit, go on, smell roses!"- you either get it [what Ae are trying to do], or you don't. Instead of smelling shit for roses, you need to look at it and think "this is shit. It's random, chaotic, bizar, unstructured. life is trippy, what are my concepts of music? what is the human limit to pleasurable sound? does something have to have emotion to be real?" it's phylosophical in a way. Don't know, but to me it's like a bunch of trippy / pot smoking stuff. So yeah. it's a learning experience. Now you know what music isn't. Or at least, what the limits of the machine are. Do we wan't this future of machines making music? Do we want to be a machine? Or do we want to make music. find out what music is to you, and you wont have to wonder where the roses are... =) p.s. I don't think it is a bas thing for everyone to be talking about one artist or song- it's all about discussions, right? and we all know Ae, so it makes a conversation easy... =))) s ~-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- ~Van: Peter Schrock [mailto:pachinko74@mac.com] ~Verzonden: Monday, May 21, 2001 7:08 AM ~Aan: anyone and everyone and ~Onderwerp: Re: [idm] From another list I'm on... ~ ~ ~I think it is funny that in other genre's of music people ~don't feel cheated ~when they hear new music from artist like Korn, limp biscuit, ~slipknot, and ~more older and reputable artist like dave matthews, helmet, ~sunny day real ~estate, tool, etc, based on how they write their songs. I ~mean, when is ~the last time you heard someone say, "yeah, I heard the new ~tool album and ~it sucks, I can do all that stuff they do." ~I don't know about you guys, but i am not interested in ~equipment used or ~how this sound is being created (at least, not when I rate ~albums), I am ~interested in how it actually sounds and how those sounds ~effect me or how ~they make me feel while listening to it. When I saw ~autechre, yeah, it got ~kind of repetitious, but it was simply amazing how beautiful ~that repetition ~played as a role in their music. Throbbing beats popunding ~my chest with ~such anxiety, yet under such immense control, that was beautiful. ~ ~on 5/21/01 1:32 AM, Gilly at galaxey@sdccu.net wrote: ~ ~> anonymous wrote: ~> ~> There is nothing wrong with making music for yourself. ~That's missing the ~> point. ~> ~> There is something wrong with charging me $15 + $7 in ~ticketbastard fees to ~> go watch two guys do a bunch of shit i sit here and do with ~my nord modular ~> anyway. ~> ~> Let me elaborate on this. ~> ~> This recent autechre tour has become the joke of the ~nord-modular list. For ~> those who don't know, the Nord Modular is one of many ~synthesizers available ~> on the market today. It also happens to be ae's primary ~synth, if not the ~> only thing they use on some of their tracks. ~> ~> One of the many capabilities of the modular, depending on the user's ~> experience and skill, is that one can actually write chaotic evolving ~> patches. Most of us know how to do it by now, and we all ~know Autechre ~> does. ~> ~> So this entire week the list has been filled with "autechre ~concert" patches ~> from people like me pissed that they paid money to go hear a ~demo of a ~> synthesizer... ~> ~> ...and some of them are *dead on*. perfect. ~> ~> which basically shows that autechre is pulling a big "fuck ~you" to their ~> fans. any of us who know how to use the nord can do this ~crap. it takes a ~> bit of practice learning the ramp controls and logic ~functions, but once ~> you've got it down you can be Instant-Autechre. ~> ~> This, to me, is not music. It's a patch on a synth. I can ~sit here at home ~> and listen to my own versions of it instead of paying $22 to ~stand in a ~> dark, hot crowded room and listen to Sean Booth act like ~he's actually doing ~> something innovative. ~> ~> This is "wankery" to me. It's boring. Those of you listening to it ~> thinking "man, that's crazy...they're switching from 3/4 to 9/15 and ~> back"...well, no, they aren't. it's a bunch of algorithms ~on a synth doing ~> it, and it wouldn't matter if there was someone in front of ~the synth or ~> not. ~> ~> So obviously, I wanted to know why Roxi liked it (do try to ~read all the ~> posts before replying next time ;), not "why she lacks the ~capability of ~> knowing any better" or however that was twisted. I think a ~lot of people ~> like this crap because it's Autechre, and Autechre is cool, ~so they're ~> supposed to like it. That's just lame. There are hundreds ~of bands out ~> there doing this kind of stuff, only better. Richie Devine ~writes his own ~> dsp code for his tracks, for chrissakes...Phoenecia melded ~miami booty bass ~> with idm...even some of Jake Mandell's stuff has a weird ~jazzy feel on top ~> of the clicks and pops...and, of course, even though RDJ ~made up all that ~> junk about making his own custom synths and software, he ~still did some ~> amazing stuff with supercollider and has always been a ~positive innovator in ~> the electronic music scene. ~> ~> I just wonder if all the same people would be listening to a ~cd of this ~> music if it was some unknown band. I doubt it, but who ~knows. This isn't ~> an attack, so please don't read it that way. ~> "Anything that separates us is junk. Cause when it rains, ~both the pope and ~> the prostitute get wet" ~> -Carlos Santana on racism ~> :::...\|/unity in diversity\|/..::: ~ ~ ~Peter "Pachinko" Ý ~- http://www.mp3.com/pachinko - ~ ~ ~ ~--------------------------------------------------------------------- ~To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org ~For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

This sounds remarkably similar to the arguments of those who claim to be able to paint like Jackson Pollock. Throw a bit of paint around a canvas, where is the art in that? Anyone who has heard the music generated by the max/msp patch Ae created would quickly come to realize the nord is but one bit involved in their live set and is by no means solely responsible for the music they are making. Gnz. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gilly" <galaxey@sdccu.net> To: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 1:32 AM Subject: [idm] From another list I'm on...

quoted 6 lines One of the many capabilities of the modular, depending on the user's

> One of the many capabilities of the modular, depending on the user's > experience and skill, is that one can actually write chaotic evolving > patches. Most of us know how to do it by now, and we all know Autechre > does. > > So this entire week the list has been filled with "autechre concert"

patches

quoted 7 lines from people like me pissed that they paid money to go hear a demo of a

> from people like me pissed that they paid money to go hear a demo of a > synthesizer... > > ...and some of them are *dead on*. perfect. > > which basically shows that autechre is pulling a big "fuck you" to their > fans. any of us who know how to use the nord can do this crap. it takes

a

quoted 4 lines bit of practice learning the ramp controls and logic functions, but once

> bit of practice learning the ramp controls and logic functions, but once > you've got it down you can be Instant-Autechre. > > This, to me, is not music. It's a patch on a synth. I can sit here at

home

quoted 2 lines and listen to my own versions of it instead of paying $22 to stand in a

> and listen to my own versions of it instead of paying $22 to stand in a > dark, hot crowded room and listen to Sean Booth act like he's actually

doing

quoted 1 line something innovative.

> something innovative.

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Ok Gilly, i did not like confield much but i am very interested in hearing your *autechre* patches. i dont have access to a nord modular, can i reconstruct the patches in reaktor or vaz modular? Perhaps you can post links to mp3 you derived from your patches.Again, im very interested in hearing what your talking about. regards, teardropb icq 55962348 irc #reaktor on DALnet

quoted 80 lines From: "Gilly" <galaxey@sdccu.net>

>From: "Gilly" <galaxey@sdccu.net> >To: <idm@hyperreal.org> >Subject: [idm] From another list I'm on... >Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 01:32:29 -0700 > >anonymous wrote: > >There is nothing wrong with making music for yourself. That's missing the >point. > >There is something wrong with charging me $15 + $7 in ticketbastard fees to >go watch two guys do a bunch of shit i sit here and do with my nord modular >anyway. > >Let me elaborate on this. > >This recent autechre tour has become the joke of the nord-modular list. >For >those who don't know, the Nord Modular is one of many synthesizers >available >on the market today. It also happens to be ae's primary synth, if not the >only thing they use on some of their tracks. > >One of the many capabilities of the modular, depending on the user's >experience and skill, is that one can actually write chaotic evolving >patches. Most of us know how to do it by now, and we all know Autechre >does. > >So this entire week the list has been filled with "autechre concert" >patches >from people like me pissed that they paid money to go hear a demo of a >synthesizer... > >...and some of them are *dead on*. perfect. > >which basically shows that autechre is pulling a big "fuck you" to their >fans. any of us who know how to use the nord can do this crap. it takes a >bit of practice learning the ramp controls and logic functions, but once >you've got it down you can be Instant-Autechre. > >This, to me, is not music. It's a patch on a synth. I can sit here at >home >and listen to my own versions of it instead of paying $22 to stand in a >dark, hot crowded room and listen to Sean Booth act like he's actually >doing >something innovative. > >This is "wankery" to me. It's boring. Those of you listening to it >thinking "man, that's crazy...they're switching from 3/4 to 9/15 and >back"...well, no, they aren't. it's a bunch of algorithms on a synth doing >it, and it wouldn't matter if there was someone in front of the synth or >not. > >So obviously, I wanted to know why Roxi liked it (do try to read all the >posts before replying next time ;), not "why she lacks the capability of >knowing any better" or however that was twisted. I think a lot of people >like this crap because it's Autechre, and Autechre is cool, so they're >supposed to like it. That's just lame. There are hundreds of bands out >there doing this kind of stuff, only better. Richie Devine writes his own >dsp code for his tracks, for chrissakes...Phoenecia melded miami booty bass >with idm...even some of Jake Mandell's stuff has a weird jazzy feel on top >of the clicks and pops...and, of course, even though RDJ made up all that >junk about making his own custom synths and software, he still did some >amazing stuff with supercollider and has always been a positive innovator >in >the electronic music scene. > >I just wonder if all the same people would be listening to a cd of this >music if it was some unknown band. I doubt it, but who knows. This isn't >an attack, so please don't read it that way. >"Anything that separates us is junk. Cause when it rains, both the pope and >the prostitute get wet" > -Carlos Santana on racism > :::...\|/unity in diversity\|/..::: > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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I agree with Peter, especially about the role of repetition in the Ae live set that I saw in Columbus. (And from the sound of most of these threads, I also agree with Mike Paradinas, but that's another discussion altogether....) Even "Envane," released from some time ago, made the most of heavy repetition albeit in a different context. I think that anytime the listening aspect of music is reduced to "Well, that's just...," followed by [insert process here], you are removing any creative intent of the artist. This isn't math, nor is it a scientific process. Whether or not Ae actually programmed those beats from start to finish (which is doubtful, I mean, did anyone actually think that?) or whether they used a patch to do it, of their own creation or someone else's, has no real impact on the show in my opinion. Their intent was obviously: they liked how it sounded, therefore they used it. I highly doubt any serious musician would get on stage and perform "wankery" for an hour with the intent of deceiving or ripping off the audience. No one seems to criticize Pita for using patches created by his General Magic associate, when the music is just as process-oriented but in the end something meant to be listened to, not analyzed.... but as soon as Autechre's name comes up, they are held up in the highest level of scrutiny imaginable. I give them credit for continuing to be challenging and engaging, and once again about 5 steps ahead of everyone else, while the whole time their "fans" subject them to brutal criticism at every turn. (This is not anything against Pita by any means, just relating that the process is similar) Because you boast of becoming "instant-Autechre" by using similar patches, you are missing the point entirely. A flawless copy of a masterwork does not make it equal in any way other than technique alone....

quoted 96 lines From: Peter Schrock <pachinko74@mac.com>

>From: Peter Schrock <pachinko74@mac.com> >To: anyone and everyone and <idm@hyperreal.org> >Subject: Re: [idm] From another list I'm on... >Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 07:07:36 -0700 > >I think it is funny that in other genre's of music people don't feel >cheated >when they hear new music from artist like Korn, limp biscuit, slipknot, and >more older and reputable artist like dave matthews, helmet, sunny day real >estate, tool, etc, based on how they write their songs. I mean, when is >the last time you heard someone say, "yeah, I heard the new tool album and >it sucks, I can do all that stuff they do." >I don't know about you guys, but i am not interested in equipment used or >how this sound is being created (at least, not when I rate albums), I am >interested in how it actually sounds and how those sounds effect me or how >they make me feel while listening to it. When I saw autechre, yeah, it >got >kind of repetitious, but it was simply amazing how beautiful that >repetition >played as a role in their music. Throbbing beats popunding my chest with >such anxiety, yet under such immense control, that was beautiful. > >on 5/21/01 1:32 AM, Gilly at galaxey@sdccu.net wrote: > > > anonymous wrote: > > > > There is nothing wrong with making music for yourself. That's missing >the > > point. > > > > There is something wrong with charging me $15 + $7 in ticketbastard fees >to > > go watch two guys do a bunch of shit i sit here and do with my nord >modular > > anyway. > > > > Let me elaborate on this. > > > > This recent autechre tour has become the joke of the nord-modular list. >For > > those who don't know, the Nord Modular is one of many synthesizers >available > > on the market today. It also happens to be ae's primary synth, if not >the > > only thing they use on some of their tracks. > > > > One of the many capabilities of the modular, depending on the user's > > experience and skill, is that one can actually write chaotic evolving > > patches. Most of us know how to do it by now, and we all know Autechre > > does. > > > > So this entire week the list has been filled with "autechre concert" >patches > > from people like me pissed that they paid money to go hear a demo of a > > synthesizer... > > > > ...and some of them are *dead on*. perfect. > > > > which basically shows that autechre is pulling a big "fuck you" to their > > fans. any of us who know how to use the nord can do this crap. it >takes a > > bit of practice learning the ramp controls and logic functions, but once > > you've got it down you can be Instant-Autechre. > > > > This, to me, is not music. It's a patch on a synth. I can sit here at >home > > and listen to my own versions of it instead of paying $22 to stand in a > > dark, hot crowded room and listen to Sean Booth act like he's actually >doing > > something innovative. > > > > This is "wankery" to me. It's boring. Those of you listening to it > > thinking "man, that's crazy...they're switching from 3/4 to 9/15 and > > back"...well, no, they aren't. it's a bunch of algorithms on a synth >doing > > it, and it wouldn't matter if there was someone in front of the synth or > > not. > > > > So obviously, I wanted to know why Roxi liked it (do try to read all the > > posts before replying next time ;), not "why she lacks the capability of > > knowing any better" or however that was twisted. I think a lot of >people > > like this crap because it's Autechre, and Autechre is cool, so they're > > supposed to like it. That's just lame. There are hundreds of bands out > > there doing this kind of stuff, only better. Richie Devine writes his >own > > dsp code for his tracks, for chrissakes...Phoenecia melded miami booty >bass > > with idm...even some of Jake Mandell's stuff has a weird jazzy feel on >top > > of the clicks and pops...and, of course, even though RDJ made up all >that > > junk about making his own custom synths and software, he still did some > > amazing stuff with supercollider and has always been a positive >innovator in > > the electronic music scene.

+------------------------------------+ m.mercer :: systm audio-visual communicator http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/98/systm.html mmercer@kent.edu :: vletrmx@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Gilly wrote:

quoted 4 lines This recent autechre tour has become the joke of the nord-modular list. For

> This recent autechre tour has become the joke of the nord-modular list. For > those who don't know, the Nord Modular is one of many synthesizers available > on the market today. It also happens to be ae's primary synth, if not the > only thing they use on some of their tracks.

quoted 10 lines So this entire week the list has been filled with "autechre concert" patches

> So this entire week the list has been filled with "autechre concert" patches > from people like me pissed that they paid money to go hear a demo of a > synthesizer... > > ...and some of them are *dead on*. perfect. > > which basically shows that autechre is pulling a big "fuck you" to their > fans. any of us who know how to use the nord can do this crap. it takes a > bit of practice learning the ramp controls and logic functions, but once > you've got it down you can be Instant-Autechre.

But you didn't do it. They did. Look at it from a DJ's perspective -- sure, anybody can play a record on a turntable. It's easy! The trick is playing the right records, at the right time, and mixing them together... So who needs a DJ? Stay home and listen to your own records.

quoted 4 lines This, to me, is not music. It's a patch on a synth. I can sit here at home

> This, to me, is not music. It's a patch on a synth. I can sit here at home > and listen to my own versions of it instead of paying $22 to stand in a > dark, hot crowded room and listen to Sean Booth act like he's actually doing > something innovative.

Nobody's stopping you from staying home... John -- John von Seggern DJ/producer Digital Cutup Lounge Hong Kong http://www.digitalcutuplounge.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Hey buddy if you would pay attention you'd notice this was posted from another list I'm on. It's NOT the NORD list however. I don't own such gear and if I did, I wouldn't bother making sounds other people have already done. Sorry I can't satisfy your curiosity... -g ----- Original Message ----- From: "teardropb ." <boygothic@hotmail.com> To: <galaxey@sdccu.net>; <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 1:49 AM Subject: Re: [idm] From another list I'm on... : Ok Gilly, i did not like confield much but i am very interested in hearing : your *autechre* patches. : : i dont have access to a nord modular, can i reconstruct the patches in : reaktor or vaz modular? : : Perhaps you can post links to mp3 you derived from your patches.Again, im : very interested in hearing what your talking about. : : regards, : : teardropb : icq 55962348 : irc #reaktor on DALnet : : >From: "Gilly" <galaxey@sdccu.net> : >To: <idm@hyperreal.org> : >Subject: [idm] From another list I'm on... : >Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 01:32:29 -0700 : > : >anonymous wrote: : > : >There is nothing wrong with making music for yourself. That's missing the : >point. : > : >There is something wrong with charging me $15 + $7 in ticketbastard fees to : >go watch two guys do a bunch of shit i sit here and do with my nord modular : >anyway. : > : >Let me elaborate on this. : > : >This recent autechre tour has become the joke of the nord-modular list. : >For : >those who don't know, the Nord Modular is one of many synthesizers : >available : >on the market today. It also happens to be ae's primary synth, if not the : >only thing they use on some of their tracks. : > : >One of the many capabilities of the modular, depending on the user's : >experience and skill, is that one can actually write chaotic evolving : >patches. Most of us know how to do it by now, and we all know Autechre : >does. : > : >So this entire week the list has been filled with "autechre concert" : >patches : >from people like me pissed that they paid money to go hear a demo of a : >synthesizer... : > : >...and some of them are *dead on*. perfect. : > : >which basically shows that autechre is pulling a big "fuck you" to their : >fans. any of us who know how to use the nord can do this crap. it takes a : >bit of practice learning the ramp controls and logic functions, but once : >you've got it down you can be Instant-Autechre. : > : >This, to me, is not music. It's a patch on a synth. I can sit here at : >home : >and listen to my own versions of it instead of paying $22 to stand in a : >dark, hot crowded room and listen to Sean Booth act like he's actually : >doing : >something innovative. : > : >This is "wankery" to me. It's boring. Those of you listening to it : >thinking "man, that's crazy...they're switching from 3/4 to 9/15 and : >back"...well, no, they aren't. it's a bunch of algorithms on a synth doing : >it, and it wouldn't matter if there was someone in front of the synth or : >not. : > : >So obviously, I wanted to know why Roxi liked it (do try to read all the : >posts before replying next time ;), not "why she lacks the capability of : >knowing any better" or however that was twisted. I think a lot of people : >like this crap because it's Autechre, and Autechre is cool, so they're : >supposed to like it. That's just lame. There are hundreds of bands out : >there doing this kind of stuff, only better. Richie Devine writes his own : >dsp code for his tracks, for chrissakes...Phoenecia melded miami booty bass : >with idm...even some of Jake Mandell's stuff has a weird jazzy feel on top : >of the clicks and pops...and, of course, even though RDJ made up all that : >junk about making his own custom synths and software, he still did some : >amazing stuff with supercollider and has always been a positive innovator : >in : >the electronic music scene. : > : >I just wonder if all the same people would be listening to a cd of this : >music if it was some unknown band. I doubt it, but who knows. This isn't : >an attack, so please don't read it that way. : >"Anything that separates us is junk. Cause when it rains, both the pope and : >the prostitute get wet" : > -Carlos Santana on racism : > :::...\|/unity in diversity\|/..::: : > : > : >--------------------------------------------------------------------- : >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org : >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org : > : : _________________________________________________________________________ : Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. : : --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Like I pointed out to another person who replied in the same manner, I DID NOT WRITE THIS. What more do you need other than the SUBJECT LINE. Did the "anonymous wrote" not make it more clear that I didn't write it. I chose to place "anonymous wrote" because I did not take the time to ask that person permission to forward his comments here. Thanks for your RUDE comments telling me to sit at home and whatnot, but all I can say in return is PAY ATTENTION next time. Thanks. gilly ps: I don't mind a one-liner, if it's smart. But even if it's smart it loses all integrity when that "intelligent" person quotes the entire fucking thread underneath. Damn some of you are irritating and need a netiquete class. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Digital Cutup Lounge" <johnvon@digitalcutuplounge.com> To: "Gilly" <galaxey@sdccu.net> Cc: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [idm] From another list I'm on... : Gilly wrote: : : > This recent autechre tour has become the joke of the nord-modular list. For : > those who don't know, the Nord Modular is one of many synthesizers available : > on the market today. It also happens to be ae's primary synth, if not the : > only thing they use on some of their tracks. : : > So this entire week the list has been filled with "autechre concert" patches : > from people like me pissed that they paid money to go hear a demo of a : > synthesizer... : > : > ...and some of them are *dead on*. perfect. : > : > which basically shows that autechre is pulling a big "fuck you" to their : > fans. any of us who know how to use the nord can do this crap. it takes a : > bit of practice learning the ramp controls and logic functions, but once : > you've got it down you can be Instant-Autechre. : : But you didn't do it. They did. : : Look at it from a DJ's perspective -- sure, anybody can play a record on a : turntable. It's easy! The trick is playing the right records, at the right : time, and mixing them together... : : So who needs a DJ? Stay home and listen to your own records. : : > This, to me, is not music. It's a patch on a synth. I can sit here at home : > and listen to my own versions of it instead of paying $22 to stand in a : > dark, hot crowded room and listen to Sean Booth act like he's actually doing : > something innovative. : : Nobody's stopping you from staying home... : : John : : -- : John von Seggern : DJ/producer : Digital Cutup Lounge : Hong Kong : : http://www.digitalcutuplounge.com : : : --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

----- Original Message ----- From: "Sebastian Chedal" <sebastian@arctone.com>

quoted 3 lines What is art? is a toilet seat on a pedestal art? or is it just a toilet

> > What is art? is a toilet seat on a pedestal art? or is it just a toilet > seat?

art is in the pedestal itself . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . p h o n k . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . http://www.phonk.com oo /|\ support / \ mutation BOYCOTT MP3.COM --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

No, i must say that all i can muster is from my own brain. the art history classes i had, and a bit of common sense. I think the thing to realize is that it (music and our relationship with it) is all happening on a small local scale- and then translated onto a much larger scale (via the press, distributions etc.) but much like your kinder garden games of "telephone"; a lot of the original meanings are distorted. which is ok. it's like any art. each person has his own interpretation. and cultures change things too. In Holland the IDM scene may be seen as an intellectual excursive. And in SF it may be seen as a fringe form of consciousness [hipyesque] expression... both are right. It is all dependant on where you are coming from. [these examples are just pure fiction i just made up, so don't think i meant that] the number one influences in today's [electronic] music, IMO is: technology -- and what it offers us in terms of tools, it's our evolution. And for most of us, we are in the back seat simply using, manipulating what is on offer -- followed by personal influences/ideals -- which may or may not be influenced by anything from past music, present politics, religion, drugs or just about anything-- So, even though techno may have come from Detroit. I've never been there. Nor does that kind of music interest me. My influences are closer to me. As they usually are for most people. It all strings together though- as my influence had another influence which in turn may [or may not] have been from Detroit... popular opinion... i.e. what is "in", where and what is "not"... what makes a good song, what is "in it's time" behind it's time or ahead [and there fore not accepted]. Even for a scene that stresses being 'ahead' of it's time, certain things can still be too left or right from the new center. In IDM a few years ago, if some unknown artist started doing evolving random beats with record clicks and pops, no one might have paid any attention, but the time was ripe for it in our scene. IDM is a scene just like any other. We are not "popular" and some of us even cringe at the idea of being "pop"... but WHY? It's this fear of being "normal" of not being unique. Once you stop having the "fear" of being unique- but just realize that you ARE... then, you will start to make unique music... [sorry if I sound like an Indian hippy]. I think the one exception [and there are always many exceptions] is: GOOD music... it tends to shine through at any time... and it is hard to find. I'd say only 2% of all the music in ANY scene is good... but that's the music we all look for. What is "GOOD" music? haha... For some people those three might not be in that order. Obviously, this is my order of importance. And I'll leave it up to you to decide in what order they are in for you. See? It's all personal. Look, in the end all the academic writing isn't going to help you. It's music. It's you. You can argue any point ad infinitum (really, you can!). It's supposed to make you feel happy; or at least "feel". Heck, even sad music makes you feel happy to be sad -- for those people, they want that feeling... find out why you make, or like listening to music [if you even need to], and then just do it. stop thinkin' and start living... it's a short trip. =)))) With kind, Sebastian.

quoted 2 lines thanks a lot. u'r a great.

>thanks a lot. u'r a great. >do u know any academic writting/source about the sampling technology, on

how it has influenced >today's music? Any resource for the electronic music as a whole, will be greatly appreciated,

quoted 2 lines CAndyMan szoon

>CAndyMan szoon >::::::::writting from Asia

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