IDM Mailing Archive

quoted 5 lines ...gag... The whole idea of "artists" and glorifying people

> ...gag... The whole idea of "artists" and glorifying people > in such a > manner is such crap. "Oooh, look at that work...s/he is such an > ARTIST. Oooh.". Instead of dreaming, do it yourself and get over > it. Demystify the act.

"Art" is NOT a high-falootin' word and it's not a judgemental word, it's just a normal everyday dictionary word that includes music, painting, sculpture, writing, design, acting, etc, etc. On top of that it's a useful word to describe electronic music makers who may be individual persons or 'bands'. You ask me to "demystify the act" and yet you think that by using the word "artist" I'm somehow glorifying something? Maybe you also have some sacred cows you need to shatter. You make music, right? Do you think that you're not an artist? It's admirable to try to be modest about what you're doing, but art is not a bad word, it's just a regular word.

quoted 6 lines You are making the assumption that sampling takes no thought.

> You are making the assumption that sampling takes no thought. > It takes twice the thought...deciding what you want said and then > finding it. I'm ever impressed by Bomb20 who says things using > the voices of many. It'd be a hundred times easier for him to > just speak it, but to pull unique sentences out of samples takes > time and a lot of searching.

I have not done telephone interviews with hundreds of sampling artists to derive my conclusions, but my informed guess is that the situation you describe NEVER happens. Usually the artist will hear the sample first, become inspired, and use it in a track in some new, creative way (or sometimes in a predictable, shallow way). Almost nobody thinks of or writes words first then grabs the sample. This is the whole beauty of sampling, it allows artists to get inspiration from the strangest sources and recontextualize it in new meaningful ways. For example, Negativland took a ten minute conversation between Ted Koppel and some unnamed Nightline guest and chopped it to bits to create a beautiful track whose lyrics are both hilarious and compelling. Of course they didn't write the lyrics first. There, are you satisfied that I'm not some hippie deadhead rawker who thinks sampling and synthesizers are the death of all good music?? God, I can't beleive I'm defending myself from attacks claiming that I don't 'get' sampling. What the fuck has happened to this list?

quoted 7 lines By the way, I can't beleive that although I specifically

> >By the way, I can't beleive that although I specifically > > said that I wasn't > >saying anything bad about sampling, > > ...but you were. Basically, your argument came down to "it > would be ok if he said it, but instead he sampled it so it > is crap". Which seems an attack on sampling...

Um, no, my argument was several paragraphs long because it was more complex and nuanced than your glib summary. Most importantly (and this is key to having an meaningful conversation about art) you seem to have misinterpreted "disappointment" as "crap". I never said "crap" and never even remotely meant to suggest that anything was "crap". Again, back to the demystification thing: why can't anyone write anything meaningful about music on this list without being second guessed as to whether or not they think the song/artist is crap? All I really wanted to talk about was the way Luke Vibert creates his work and about how that particular song's meaning changed for me because of new knowledge. And it turned into a 1989 Rolling Stone magazine debate about sampling. Now I'm the one gagging. -cf --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 3 lines All I really wanted to talk about was the way Luke Vibert creates his work

>All I really wanted to talk about was the way Luke Vibert creates his work >and about how that particular song's meaning changed for me because of new >knowledge.

perhaps i'm a little naive, but i always _assume_ with Vibert that the material is sampled. when it's not, i feel like it's pertty obvious ("My Organ's in your Face," "Juicy Luke Vibert," etc.) anybody that still uses "funky drummer" is gonna sample just about everything :) on the "Robby Rooby Roo" aspect of discovering that your assumptions were wrong discovering that sample origin: i LOVE finding out where stuff is sourced from. of course, i suppose i am pre-disposed to sample-heavy/collage music, so i guess i wouldn't be disappointed at all in discovering that something was sampled and not "created." usually in such instances it's more of a "hats off/touche" kinda feeling that i have: vibert is a genius at this kind of silly recontextualization. if you've heard the unreleased stuff that's been making the rounds there are entire tracks that seem to come from Fat Boys "Crushin'" and Run DMC "Raising Hell." maybe i'm just tickled at the idea that me and Luke were buying the same records in 1988 :) i guess there's no real "new" idea expressed in this post that others haven't already gone over, but i wanted to say it. np: Gorki's Zygotic Minci. i dunno how a band can make an entire career out of copying PF's "Atom Heart Mother" LP, but it's good :) ------------ 1642 try 621 ------------ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

if you've

quoted 3 lines heard the unreleased stuff that's been making the rounds there are entire

>heard the unreleased stuff that's been making the rounds there are entire >tracks that seem to come from Fat Boys "Crushin'" and Run DMC "Raising >Hell."

um, that was supposed to be Run DMC "Tougher than Leather." apologies to all who read my post and left in a rush to go out and buy "Rasing Hell" to play "Deconstruct Luke" at home :) ------------ 1642 try 621 ------------ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org