IDM Mailing Archive

Written by Humanerr0r@aol.com Subject: Re: (idm) punk ng?! & some more childish insults In a message dated 14/04/97 22:03:46, you write:

quoted 2 lines I'd say that notion is a load of crap, I can't think of any techno musician

>I'd say that notion is a load of crap, I can't think of any techno musician >who was a punk (or at least was brave enough to say so)

err. andy weatherall , alex patterson

quoted 2 lines To me, although techno is supposed to have a 'punk' ethic (i.e use what you

>To me, although techno is supposed to have a 'punk' ethic (i.e use what you >can, music from bedrooms) I don't see much of a connection.

to me the most important thing about punk was 'after the fact' punk inspired people to 'do it themselves' and not rely on the traditional mechanics of the music industry - something very much in common with electronic artists artists like throbbing gristle & new order who have relevance to the 'techno' world are 2 prime examples of the 'aftershock' of punk....

quoted 4 lines Punk wasn't about making something new, or even about making music,

>Punk wasn't about making something new, or even about making music, >it was about making a social stance, about decibel levels, about >social aggressiveness and destruction - it seems to be the opposite >to what the techno musicians are about.

wow !!- a wopping generalisation - depends what you define as 'punk' - do patti smith, magazine , minor threat , dead kennedys all fit into the above critique? - these were artists trying to do and say something 'worthwhile' as a wise man once said - "music has a history - learn it!" sm@4thworld -- http://dialspace.dial.pipex.com/4thworld/ check the 'propoganda' page - interviews + features on black dog/ as one/ musik aus strom / jimpster / compost / irdial + more

On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, Black Dog Droid wrote:

quoted 10 lines Written by Humanerr0r@aol.com?

> > Written by Humanerr0r@aol.com? > > >>social aggressiveness and destruction - it seems to be the opposite > >>to what the techno musicians are about. > > anyway, imho the punk vibe's alive and kicking, > and the question should be not, "who was a punk" > but "who is punk". there's a big difference, and > it's probably not a train of thought welcome in > here.

Have to say that I agree with this. To me punk isn't just a style of music, it's an attitude or way of thinking. The best example I can think of is Jello Biafra (of Dead Kennedys fame) who's last album I heard was country but to me was still a punk album (quite amusing as well). I see no reason why the punk ethic can't be manifest in techno.

quoted 2 lines Just my 2p..

> > Just my 2p..

My 2 pesos

quoted 10 lines Cheers

> > Cheers > Ken > -- > + . /\___/\ . * | < The Black Dog > | + * . . * . > . * (. .) + | | . * . * + > ___ooO__\-/__Ooo___ | | + + + + . > /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ | Dogma >> | http://www.feedback.com/tbd/ > * 3-5-3 * (Dis)information > | tbd@feedback.com >

Tim In every work of genius we recognise our own rejected thoughts; they come back to us with a certain alienated majesty.

Black Dog Droid wrote:

quoted 28 lines Written by Humanerr0r@aol.com?

> > > Written by Humanerr0r@aol.com? > > >>social aggressiveness and destruction - it seems to be the opposite > >>to what the techno musicians are about. > > heh, not all of us. > techno is a microcosm of most music, mate. > you've got yer boring pink floyds, and your upstart pistols. > > As i see it, in 30 years time, people will be writing > about how great the underground music of the late 80's > and 90's was. and "who fucking cares", if they don't. > > who (ask your mum and dads?) looked at the 60's in > awe when they were living through them. precious few, > eh? > > anyway, imho the punk vibe's alive and kicking, > and the question should be not, "who was a punk" > but "who is punk". there's a big difference, and > it's probably not a train of thought welcome in > here. > > Just my 2p.. > > Cheers > Ken

I do have to agree.There is this undercurrent within techno to say..I think it is so funny when you send out promos or Dj in a club and you get these people that think that there the shit and that they are so diff.than those guys that goto pop clubs,its' funny how soon as you put something that is different then the so called norm,like beats that are not IN 4/4 or a sounds that do not come from some Juno 60 or 303,909 crap,and are new.They get so bent out of shape.So I love it,Distributors that tell me that it is not going to sell because it is to different,I step back and think,FUNNY!!!!I thought this was a underground to cool for school distributor or club,but no they, and 90% of the people, and DJ's out there, are a bunch of closed minded pop geeks that will sit around playing what ever is the hot new thing,that sounds just like the last record that they played,(SODS)So think for a minute about the last time you went to a club and the flyer lists 10 DJ,but the whole time you are there it is just a four hour song all in the same key.The only thing that changes is sometimes a beat is off or the face changes behind the 1200,the thrill of the night.What fun.. I think there is a percent of tekno artist that do what they want.You could call it the punks of tekno or just people being themselfs.I would rather sell 100 records of what I belive in and have 100 peolpe that love it like a classic.Then sell 10,000 of a release that sounds like 30 others that week. Then end up on a used record pool and fade out. WELL I WILL GET OFF MY SOAP BOX NOW... CHEERS, SHAD T.SCOTT AT ISOPHLUX

In a message dated 16/04/97 15:24:36, you write:

quoted 2 lines In a message dated 14/04/97 22:03:46, you write:

> In a message dated 14/04/97 22:03:46, you write: > >I'd say that notion is a load of crap, I can't think of any techno

musician

quoted 1 line who was a punk (or at least was brave enough to say so)

> >who was a punk (or at least was brave enough to say so)

quoted 1 line err. andy weatherall , alex patterson

> err. andy weatherall , alex patterson

And Orbital, and the rest. I'm not saying anything here except that the list people put forward of punks in techno is more or less the same as the one charting my most hated artists. Again, I'm not saying anything, and I'm really treading on thin ice here, but it kind of confirms what I thought, to me at least.

quoted 1 line To me, although techno is supposed to have a 'punk' ethic (i.e use what

> >To me, although techno is supposed to have a 'punk' ethic (i.e use what

you

quoted 1 line can, music from bedrooms) I don't see much of a connection.

> >can, music from bedrooms) I don't see much of a connection.

quoted 4 lines to me the most important thing about punk was 'after the fact'

> to me the most important thing about punk was 'after the fact' > punk inspired people to 'do it themselves' and not rely on > the traditional mechanics of the music industry - something > very much in common with electronic artists

Yeah but I thought hippies, reggae, folk musicians and prog rock artists did this before, I don't see Punk as being particularly special in this respect.

quoted 2 lines artists like throbbing gristle & new order who have relevance to the

> artists like throbbing gristle & new order who have relevance to the > 'techno' world are 2 prime examples of the 'aftershock' of punk....

Who am I to argue? I was talking about punk in a fairly narrow sense, in production terms noisy guitar pop, but I accept there are fringes to any scene that are the more creative part. I don't want to get out of my depth, it was just an idea I had while eating cheese sandwiches after all.

quoted 1 line as a wise man once said - "music has a history - learn it!"

> as a wise man once said - "music has a history - learn it!"

But I get this feeling sometimes that the more you learn, the less you understand.. Cheerio! What's On The Soya Sound Burger? Shouting At The Ground - Zoviet France

quoted 1 line artists like throbbing gristle & new order who have relevance to >the

> artists like throbbing gristle & new order who have relevance to >the

'techno' world are 2 prime examples of the 'aftershock' of >punk.... While I will agree with the statement about New Order.. I can't agree at all with the mention of TG.. The members of TG were essentially 'hippies' of sorts in the begining and slowly evolved into performance artists.. Not exactly punk related. Not to mention TG and the brit-punk scene originated during the same time and basically grew up right next to each other. I still find it amusing that Peter Christopherson's photography of the Sex Pistols was too extreme and that Billy Idol (and I'd guess other punks of the times) was(were) afraid of Mr P-Orridge & his band of merry noise-artists.

quoted 11 lines In a message dated 14/04/97 22:03:46, you write:

> > In a message dated 14/04/97 22:03:46, you write: > > >I'd say that notion is a load of crap, I can't think of any techno > musician who was a punk (or at least was brave enough to say so) > > > err. andy weatherall , alex patterson > > And Orbital, and the rest. I'm not saying anything here except that the list > people put forward of punks in techno is more or less the same as the one > charting my most hated artists. Again, I'm not saying anything, and I'm > really treading on thin ice here, but it kind of confirms what I thought, to > me at least.

Yeah its my list of dickheads too, but the punk ethic definately lives on, its evolved just as everything else has over the past 20 years. I doubt theres anyone on the list who wouldnt be captivated by Jello Biafras spoken word LP's, Maybe even LARD or Dead Kennedys too... maybe thats a bit adventurous. kF

fishlips@ahbqs.com wrote:

quoted 5 lines KU>Maybe even LARD or Dead Kennedys too... maybe thats a bit adventurous.

> > KU>Maybe even LARD or Dead Kennedys too... maybe thats a bit adventurous. > > KU>kF > Since you brought them up...is there ANY type of news on Uncle Al,

Barker, Ward, and Jello getting back together and putting out a new album??? I need a new fix of Lard...Also..a while back I heard rumors of their being a Buck Satan album..know anything about this too? Ryan Fishlips@ahbqs.com www.ahbqs.com/fishlips/mypage.htm