On Tue, 5 Jun 2001 andrei@world.std.com wrote:
quoted 6 lines [I previously wrote:]> [I previously wrote:]
> > I wouldn't necessarily say that Fluxus was more involved in music per se,
>
> Well, I mean you can actually name composers who were involved with
> the Fluxus movement (LaMonte Young for example) which you can't really
> do with Dada. I did once come across a mention of a Swiss composer
This is true, but most of the music Young is known for has very little to
do with the movement. Strangely enough, his pieces that do fit into the
Fluxus puzzle (like his Trio for Strings or the furniture piece) are
seldom performed or recorded. Overall, I'd still say the thrust of Fluxus
performances is theatrical rather than musical. I guess this just goes to
show you how rare it is for someone to become famous in a visual art
context when coming from a musical background (as did LMY).
quoted 2 lines I did say in my post that they have a very superficial (distant)> I did say in my post that they have a very superficial (distant)
> connection to the Futurist sound aesthetic at best.
Yeah, I agree (that you said it, and that it's true).
quoted 9 lines I ask because methodologically, Autechre's> > I ask because methodologically, Autechre's
> > current direction seems to be opposite the approach used in concrete.
>
> I think as far as the interest in sound processing and the use of
> "found" sounds they're definitely part of that continuum. Sure their
> tracks don't have that narrative sort of quality that "academic"
> concrete pieces tend to have and they don't use the same kinds of
> compositional structures as the academics, but as far as "sound
> research" they're treading pretty much the same ground.
Correct, but I think the structural component is one of the essential
characteristics of concrete- see below.
quoted 4 lines Not to mention that I would still argue that the style that influences> > Not to mention that I would still argue that the style that influences
> > them is the part that went furthest astray of the original Futurist goals.
>
> Maybe you should expand on this.
Well, I'm sure you know all this, but I'll go through the basics anyway.
What Russolo proposes in the "Art of Noise" is to develop a taxonomy for
the sounds of the city and redeploy them in a classical context by use of
specially designed instruments. The goal is to use the sounds'
familiarity to resonate more closely with the listener and his/her
experiences with the modern city. This is essentially what Pierre
Schaeffer and Pierre Henry did with their earliest works, except for the
methodology (turntables and tape).
Of course, with the tools developed later, the possibilities for
transforming source material (or even recording "invisible" sounds like
the ones Xenakis was so fond of) greatly transformed the practice of
musique concrete. This led to the "acousmatic" compositions, which
obscured the sound source and made everything sound abstract and
electronic. I mean, when you listen to "Variation for a Door and Sigh",
you at least have a chance of figuring out what it is you're hearing- as
opposed to Francois Bayle's "Erosphere" or Xenakis' "Concret P-H".
Nonetheless, even the acousmatic composers paid great attention to the
structure of composition and the layering of meanings (concretists being
obsessed by the interplay between concrete composition and language-
listen to Schaeffer's Solfege de l'Objet Sonore (sp) for a primer on this
aspect).
Enter IDM artists, who as you mentioned, are very interested in the "sound
research" aspects of concrete, but less so in the structural context
(you'll remember the derogatory remarks that Stockhausen made about
Aphex's use of repetition and lack of development within his track). This
makes sense, because IDMers tend to come from a techno or electro context,
and structural concerns are a hallmark of Western classical composition.
The reason why I said that Autechre were influenced by the least Futurist
school of concrete is precisely because you lose so much of the
associations of your source material when you process it so heavily. Since
the Futurists were so interested in transcribing the sounds of the city,
this is a non-trivial development. I agree with you that certain IDMers
are very interested in the methods of concrete. On the other hand, I
think it would be a mistake to not take these considerations into account
when talking about concrete of the Futurists.
It might seem fairly pedantic, but I'm also uptight about the use of
language. It just seems like the historical discussion of antecedents to
IDM gets sloppy, and I would like for people clarify to when possible. (I
think we mostly agree, anyway).
-rob
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