IDM Mailing Archive

A friend of mine just had a track of his released on the new House and ACID Volume 4 from Definative, and I was listening to the CD. Then this morning I was listening to the radio, and I heard a track from Banco de Gaia's L'hassa (SP?) album, and it was a great track, it was nice, but the damn thing was too tame. I don't mean it wasn't hard, most 'hard' tracks are too tame as well. I think there is a generic 'IDM' feel or formula that needs to be avoided, or else it will all stagnate. People like de Gaia or Moby, or KLF, and even the ORB have all found a niche. They are professional at what they do, but they lose their edge. The de Gaia track really sorta bugged me, because it was only one step from a Deep Forest track (it sounded like a middle-eastern bazzarre), and I think most agree that Deep Forest is pretty middle of the road IDM. Yeah thats it, middle of the road. The ORB isn't, but their new stuff sounds suspiciously like their old stuff, and IDM is intelligent, not stagnant. Hmmmm....let me see if I can salvage a point out of this. There is a tameness to be found in some IDM, and I've heard it in Banco de Gaia's Last Train.. album, and I've heard it in a lot of new European IDM. Hey is it a European thing? I know IDM is sorta big, and there may even be mainstream radio stations that play it, hence the tameness? Are you folks happier there than us (Yay CONSERVATIVE political parties :( ) I just don't want to hear the ORB on EZ-ROCK 103.5 in ten years. Toshie -- | |##|## ||||| #|#|# |#|## ||||# #||#| ||#|# #|||| #|#|# #|||| ##|| |##| This ^^^^ is my government barcode identifier. # = thick lines, | = thin I don't make this stuff up. cooey@server.uwindsor.ca

Tosh said once upon a time:

quoted 6 lines formula that needs to be avoided, or else it will all stagnate. People

>formula that needs to be avoided, or else it will all stagnate. People >like de Gaia or Moby, or KLF, and even the ORB have all found a niche. >They are professional at what they do, but they lose their edge. The de >Gaia track really sorta bugged me, because it was only one step from a >Deep Forest track (it sounded like a middle-eastern bazzarre), and I >think most agree that Deep Forest is pretty middle of the road IDM.

I think I understand what you're saying in that we're getting a whole lot of "sameness" and not a lot of innovation. I remember when I first started getting into this stuff, and industrial before that and just slobbering over everything I could find. It all sounded so fresh and wonderful. Needless to say, I haven't done that in a while. Last Saturday I DJ'ed for a rave here where I did sort of a Lee Newman tribute (I she really dead? Anyone? Anyone?). I had more people coming over to me asking what the titles were on three year old GTO and Church of Ecstasy stuff than I have ever had on any recent IDM.

Whether or not IDM is too tame, I think, depends on the definition. If IDM is defined strictly within the confines of the original Warp AI concept and discussion is limited to smoothed out, mellow techno of this variety, then, yes, IDM has perhaps lost innovation. If, otoh, IDM means Intelligent Dance Music, then there is lots of stuff that is out there blowing my mind. Jungle crossovers, jazz crossovers, trip-hop (I hate that term), etc. There's the lounge fusion of Jimi Tenor and Jake S., jungle remixes of Mo' Wax, Mo' Wax Excursions, stuff like Jammin' Unit meets Chemical Dub, James Bong records, I could go on for hours. Anyway, just my 39¢ peace john on now: io:ADSR ________________________________________________________________________ The power of the dance is a dangerous power. Like other forms of self surrender, it is easier to begin than to stop. beatphreak@mail.utexas.edu john branch

quoted 6 lines If, otoh, IDM means Intelligent Dance Music, then there is lots of stuff

> If, otoh, IDM means Intelligent Dance Music, then there is lots of stuff > that is out there blowing my mind. Jungle crossovers, jazz crossovers, > trip-hop (I hate that term), etc. There's the lounge fusion of Jimi Tenor > and Jake S., jungle remixes of Mo' Wax, Mo' Wax Excursions, stuff like > Jammin' Unit meets Chemical Dub, James Bong records, I could go on for > hours.

i fully agree - you might say that idm is becoming stagnant but i say it's as vibrant as ever with the fusion that's going on..i just think our definitions of what 'idm' encompasses has to shift a bit. mikebee

On Fri, 25 Aug 1995, John Branch wrote:

quoted 6 lines If, otoh, IDM means Intelligent Dance Music, then there is lots of stuff

> If, otoh, IDM means Intelligent Dance Music, then there is lots of stuff > that is out there blowing my mind. Jungle crossovers, jazz crossovers, > trip-hop (I hate that term), etc. There's the lounge fusion of Jimi Tenor > and Jake S., jungle remixes of Mo' Wax, Mo' Wax Excursions, stuff like > Jammin' Unit meets Chemical Dub, James Bong records, I could go on for > hours.

Thankfully, the IDM list has adapted quite well in this regard. I *never* would have picked up a Mo' Wax disc had not a couple of friendly employees at Record Time in Detroit crossreferenced _Headz_ with some of the more "classical" Detroit tunes I was listening to. I guess IDM is what we define it to be, and with people like Dave Walker, Kent Williams, Jon Drukman, etc., "straying" out of the Artificial Intelligence model with greater frequency, we all get a tast of something new. Dave .------------------------------------------dave.manning@dreamland.unomaha.edu | "There is no other reality dmanning@cwis.unomaha.edu | but our own...." dmanning@synergy.net .-------------------------------------------- dgmanning@aol.com

quoted 11 lines Whether or not IDM is too tame, I think, depends on the definition. If IDM

> Whether or not IDM is too tame, I think, depends on the definition. If IDM > is defined strictly within the confines of the original Warp AI concept and > discussion is limited to smoothed out, mellow techno of this variety, then, > yes, IDM has perhaps lost innovation. > > If, otoh, IDM means Intelligent Dance Music, then there is lots of stuff > that is out there blowing my mind. Jungle crossovers, jazz crossovers, > trip-hop (I hate that term), etc. There's the lounge fusion of Jimi Tenor > and Jake S., jungle remixes of Mo' Wax, Mo' Wax Excursions, stuff like > Jammin' Unit meets Chemical Dub, James Bong records, I could go on for > hours.

Hmm, this discussion reminds me of the post I sent to the list a couple of weeks ago :) It's true that the genre must be shifting and be in a constant evolution to maintain its freshness and its being interesting for a curious and restless (in the Postmodernist sense a la Virilio, Baudrillard et al. ;) listener seeking for the new aural kicks... The advance of the IDM list, IMHO, is and should be that we are able to inform each other on what's happening _now_ - and, for me personally, what keeps me reading this list, to be honest, are NOT the continuing conversations/gossips/flame wars on the new AFX/Mu-Ziq/Orbital releases, since those people are _already_ established artists and actually need no more hype from any of us, IMO, (and I'm _really_ into all those mentioned names, BTW, so no flame intended to anyone) BUT those occasional pieces of information on the _new_ labels, artists, etc. we get from time to time thanks to those enlightened individuals kind enough to share them with us :) So just keep contributing, everyone. And talking about the "tameness" and the alleged predictability of some recent IDM releases, why don't you just check out the truly outrageous stuff, like the Japanese "noise" artists in the style of Merzbow; the pioneering electronic composers of the 50's and 60's like Karlheinz Stockhausen and the musique concrete (tape-music) man Pierre Schaffer; the early industrial experimentalists of the 70's and 80's like Boyd Rice, Throbbing Gristle and Einsturzende Neubauten; the jazz madness of Sun Ra, Pharaoh Saunders and John Zorn; etc. etc. etc. - the world is full of these weird sounds, so just to quote the good old Pete Kuhlmann: EXPLORE! :) To add my 0.023, ERkki Tampere, pHinland trerra@uta.fi

>People like de Gaia or Moby, or KLF, and even the ORB have all found a niche.

quoted 1 line They are professional at what they do, but they lose their edge.

>They are professional at what they do, but they lose their edge.

i didn't realize that moby and banco de gaia were IDM. i thought they were just CRAP! seriously, you should be ashamed of yourself for even putting the word "moby" within a hundred yard radius of the orb.

On Aug 25, 5:41pm, Dave Manning wrote:

quoted 3 lines Subject: Re: IDM is too tame

> Subject: Re: IDM is too tame > On Fri, 25 Aug 1995, John Branch wrote: >

quoted 4 lines I guess IDM is what we define it to be, and with people like Dave

> I guess IDM is what we define it to be, and with people like Dave > Walker, Kent Williams, Jon Drukman, etc., "straying" out of the > Artificial Intelligence model with greater frequency, we all get a > tast of something new.

I'm a little lost sheep who's lost his way ... I didn't notice my posts 'strayed' that much ... but thanks for including me in such an august community. If you look at the original AI artists, they've all strayed themselves. It's a dead end to try and limit the discourse too much, anyway. I will admit that I occasionally buy Jungle records. But a look in my CD rack will find lots of Detroit, Ambient, and whatever alongside the 'classic' IDM material. And at home the Clear Plaid E.P. is nestled next to my 3-record boxed set of "Songs of yesterday and today, played for your enjoyment on the mighty Hammond B3." I think anything with beats, that someone might dance to, that someone might listen to at home as well. Or at work through headphones, my usual configuration. -- "I AM PROBABLY THE LAMEST CHARACTER EVER KNOWN TO MANKIND, THE HUMAN RACE, OR THE WORLD IN GENERAL. EVEN IF YOU SHIPPED ME OFF TO JUPITER, I'D KILL OFF ALL THE ALIENS BECAUSE THEY'D DIE OF EXPOSURE TO LAMENESS." - Scott Koladich, in a fit of abnegation. kent.williams@cadsi.com [Kent Williams/CADSI/2651 Crosspark Rd/Coralville IA 52241/(319)626-6700]

and i retort......

quoted 1 line What's wrong with Moby ?

>What's wrong with Moby ?

do i really have to explain? i think we all know.

quoted 3 lines I know they did some commercial single edits, but most of what they do is

>I know they did some commercial single edits, but most of what they do is >just cool. It's not because a band is becoming popular that they >necessarily suck.

first off, moby is unfortunately a person, not a group. commercial edits? shorter shit or longer shit. in the end it all equals SHIT to me. moby sucked massive way before he became popular. and i have a hunch he'll always suck. so don't don't play that "you-just-don't-like-them-'cause-they're-popular" crap with me. there are plenty of recently commercialized bands that continue to put out consistently good material. for example, i really enjoy the portishead album, but i didn't run home crying when elton john and naomi campbell said that portishead was their fave new band. if it's good, it's good. if it's moby, it's not.

quoted 2 lines Just listen to the music, and don't connect your opinion abut it with

>Just listen to the music, and don't connect your opinion abut it with >whether only some people know it or whether everyone listens to it...

i realize that everyone has their own valid opinion, but i don't need some moby lovin' freak like you to tell me to "just listen to the music." that offends me. -over- -r.