IDM Mailing Archive

It's rather ironic that it's gotten to the point at which "IDM" is now regarded as either establishmentarian or generally cheesy - or at least on this list - or at least in the posts I've received since returning to the list the other day. I joined up on this list back in its early days (1994-ish) and it was near blasphemy to sideswipe RDJ et al and one certainly didn't disavow the IDM category lest he or she be snotted-upon for the crime. I come back to hear people talking about AFX being overrated and IDM being an annoying term - Who's taken over this list? Ah yes, the irony part: Formerly, the IDM of AFX was the food of the elite techno divine and it is now the gravel upon which the commoners projectile vomit? And who says so? The elite! (Or rather, those who perceive themselves elite due to the fact that the noise they prefer is on an unknown and insignificant label (to date).) YAWN, people. Warp Records is the standard by which all the rest shall be judged, sayeth the LORD. What else is there, really? Something YOU made? Well, are YOU on Warp? Is this matter of lack the matter of fact that stirs your bile? Oh, what a silly notion. No one would ever stoop to such a low. Anyway, the term Intelligent Dance Music is perfect, as it always has been, for describing what it is we, in general, listen to. Why? Because idiots, no matter what gets said or written, will always assume that techno = the shit they play in clubs. It will be, in other words, DANCE MUSIC regardless of the fact that only someone having a seizure could possibly dance to most of it. The term is, or at least it is to me, a little inside joke. What we know is that this is music to be listened to and appreciated from an intellectual or even academic point of view, yet this can not be grasped by the unwashed mass because it's techno and techno is made up of beats to which people must dance (mainly because techno beats originate from machines and not some tattooed dickhead with a drum kit and the rest of the band, or some stuff-lipped woman with a violin and the rest of the orchestra, or some tobacco-toothed hillbilly and the other country hicks, etc). Terms like Electronica are ones designed by marketeers or other people looking for descriptive ways to organize their inventory. The fact that one might find Technotronic in the same section as Autechre is more than telling that this category is bunk as hell. The term IDM is one that, as far as I can recall, was bestowed upon the form mostly by the combination of the music's listeners. A very specific term is good for a very specific musical form. "Rock" described both Elvis and Tool. How is that possible? "Rock" is generally meaningless, that's how. IDM has a meaning that both undercuts and supercedes the industry it comes out of. One can produce "techno" all day long, but there's nothing that will qualify it as IDM aside from its merits and the general agreement of the listening audience. This, of course, does not solve the whole "Is this IDM or what?" dilemma (the dilemma being more oriented around the fool who doesn't know that the music itself) but it does allow for the establishment of basic criteria for attempting to satisfy that question. Pardon me, what the hell am I talking about? MG --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I'm reorganizing my entire collection based on record label, as that usually says more about a subset of my collection than a genre did (once you get 600 albums or whatever in the 'IDM' genre it gets useless). IDM has come to be more of a joke in the vien of 'my dvd player skips.' 'oh that's sooo IDM', etc. but that doesn't mean, as i think you were getting at, that the label should be rejected. that's what idm music is for. - xenlab. Guerdis wrote:

quoted 33 lines It's rather ironic that it's gotten to the point at which "IDM" is now

>It's rather ironic that it's gotten to the point at which "IDM" is now regarded as either establishmentarian or generally cheesy - or at least on this list - or at least in the posts I've received since returning to the list the other day. I joined up on this list back in its early days (1994-ish) and it was near blasphemy to sideswipe RDJ et al and one certainly didn't disavow the IDM category lest he or she be snotted-upon for the crime. > >I come back to hear people talking about AFX being overrated and IDM being an annoying term - Who's taken over this list? > >Ah yes, the irony part: Formerly, the IDM of AFX was the food of the elite techno divine and it is now the gravel upon which the commoners projectile vomit? And who says so? The elite! (Or rather, those who perceive themselves elite due to the fact that the noise they prefer is on an unknown and insignificant label (to date).) > >YAWN, people. > >Warp Records is the standard by which all the rest shall be judged, sayeth the LORD. What else is there, really? Something YOU made? Well, are YOU on Warp? Is this matter of lack the matter of fact that stirs your bile? Oh, what a silly notion. No one would ever stoop to such a low. > >Anyway, the term Intelligent Dance Music is perfect, as it always has been, for describing what it is we, in general, listen to. Why? Because idiots, no matter what gets said or written, will always assume that techno = the shit they play in clubs. It will be, in other words, DANCE MUSIC regardless of the fact that only someone having a seizure could possibly dance to most of it. The term is, or at least it is to me, a little inside joke. What we know is that this is music to be listened to and appreciated from an intellectual or even academic point of view, yet this can not be grasped by the unwashed mass because it's techno and techno is made up of beats to which people must dance (mainly because techno beats originate from machines and not some tattooed dickhead with a drum kit and the rest of the band, or some stuff-lipped woman with a violin and the rest of the orchestra, or some tobacco-toothed hillbilly and the other country hicks, etc). > >Terms like Electronica are ones designed by marketeers or other people looking for descriptive ways to organize their inventory. The fact that one might find Technotronic in the same section as Autechre is more than telling that this category is bunk as hell. The term IDM is one that, as far as I can recall, was bestowed upon the form mostly by the combination of the music's listeners. > >A very specific term is good for a very specific musical form. "Rock" described both Elvis and Tool. How is that possible? "Rock" is generally meaningless, that's how. IDM has a meaning that both undercuts and supercedes the industry it comes out of. One can produce "techno" all day long, but there's nothing that will qualify it as IDM aside from its merits and the general agreement of the listening audience. > >This, of course, does not solve the whole "Is this IDM or what?" dilemma (the dilemma being more oriented around the fool who doesn't know that the music itself) but it does allow for the establishment of basic criteria for attempting to satisfy that question. > >Pardon me, what the hell am I talking about? > >MG > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > >. > > >

On Sun, 13 Feb 2005, egyptian zombie robot wrote:

quoted 3 lines I'm reorganizing my entire collection based on record label, as that usually

> I'm reorganizing my entire collection based on record label, as that usually > says more about a subset of my collection than a genre did (once you get 600 > albums or whatever in the 'IDM' genre it gets useless).

I did this too, but I wanted them to be sorted in proper directory order, as well as leave room for sub-labels and micro-genres, plus make it so people unfamiliar with it could find things to listen to.. Here's what it looks like currently.... 0-aesthetics-pulseprogramming,hood 0-axiom-bill_laswell 0-basic_channel 0-big_dada-roots_manuva,gamma 0-carpark--signer,casino-vs-japan 0-chain_reaction-fluxion,monolake 0-chocolate_industries--funkstorung,pbo 0-city_centre_offices--arovane,kleine,schnauss 0-def_jux--el-p,aesop_rock,lif,canox 0-fat_cat--mum,sigur_ros 0-ghostly_international 0-kompakt--felhmann 0-leaf--manitoba,murcof 0-lex--boom_bip 0-m3rck-machinedrum,proem,esem 0-mille_plateaux--oval,vladislav_delay 0-MMLXII-william_basinski 0-morr_music--guitar,populous 0-n5md-spark 0-neo_ouija--bauri,xela 0-ninja_tune 0-orthlorng-musork-kit_clayton,gc,sutekh 0-planet-mu--mu-ziq,nautilis 0-plug_research--dntel,daedelus 0-plus8--plastikman 0-quannum--blackalicious,dj_shadow 0-rephlex--aphex,astrobotnia 0-scape_records--pole,deadbeat,system 0-schematic--phoenecia,devine 0-scott_herren-prefuse73,delarosa,savath 0-shadow--icarus,kruder_and_dorfmeister 0-shitkatapult--apparat,raumschmiere 0-skam_records--bola,BoC 0-spezialmaterial 0-suction--solvent,lowfish 0-tigerbeat6-kid606,tundra 0-too_pure--mouse_on_mars,seefeel 0-toytronic--gimmik,multiplex,hinwil 0-trance_syndicate-johnboy,distorted_pony 0-twisted--hallucinogen,shpongle 0-u-cover--quench,kettel 0-warp--autechre,b12,AI 1-ambient 1-downtempo,trip-hop,dnb 1-dub,reggae 1-electro 1-electronica 1-glitch,idm 1-hip-hop 1-house 1-indie_rock 1-pop,vocal,funk 1-spoken_word,comedy -- - Eric Sorenson - Explosive Networking - http://eric.explosive.net - --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 15:01:38 -0500, egyptian zombie robot <eric@ezrpm.com> wrote:

quoted 4 lines I'm reorganizing my entire collection based on record label, as that

> I'm reorganizing my entire collection based on record label, as that > usually says more about a subset of my collection than a genre did (once > you get 600 albums or whatever in the 'IDM' genre it gets useless). >

Yeah, I pretty much do the same thing with all of my mp3s that I've ripped down from CD. I just set the genre field to that disc's record label. It's much more useful information than "General Electronic", or "Downtempo" or whatever info CDDB has for a specific disc. Later, Alan np:Tarentel:We Move Through Weather --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Hmm.. I always thought that the problem most people had with the IDM label wasn't the Dance part so much as the Intelligent part, and all of the elitist, cartesian mind/body split poopyness it has come to connote. If people have issues with IDM being connected to dance music...well...um... Luis On Feb 13, 2005, at 1:52 PM, Guerdis wrote:

quoted 69 lines It's rather ironic that it's gotten to the point at which "IDM" is now

> > It's rather ironic that it's gotten to the point at which "IDM" is now > regarded as either establishmentarian or generally cheesy - or at > least on this list - or at least in the posts I've received since > returning to the list the other day. I joined up on this list back in > its early days (1994-ish) and it was near blasphemy to sideswipe RDJ > et al and one certainly didn't disavow the IDM category lest he or she > be snotted-upon for the crime. > > I come back to hear people talking about AFX being overrated and IDM > being an annoying term - Who's taken over this list? > > Ah yes, the irony part: Formerly, the IDM of AFX was the food of the > elite techno divine and it is now the gravel upon which the commoners > projectile vomit? And who says so? The elite! (Or rather, those who > perceive themselves elite due to the fact that the noise they prefer > is on an unknown and insignificant label (to date).) > > YAWN, people. > > Warp Records is the standard by which all the rest shall be judged, > sayeth the LORD. What else is there, really? Something YOU made? Well, > are YOU on Warp? Is this matter of lack the matter of fact that stirs > your bile? Oh, what a silly notion. No one would ever stoop to such a > low. > > Anyway, the term Intelligent Dance Music is perfect, as it always has > been, for describing what it is we, in general, listen to. Why? > Because idiots, no matter what gets said or written, will always > assume that techno = the shit they play in clubs. It will be, in other > words, DANCE MUSIC regardless of the fact that only someone having a > seizure could possibly dance to most of it. The term is, or at least > it is to me, a little inside joke. What we know is that this is music > to be listened to and appreciated from an intellectual or even > academic point of view, yet this can not be grasped by the unwashed > mass because it's techno and techno is made up of beats to which > people must dance (mainly because techno beats originate from machines > and not some tattooed dickhead with a drum kit and the rest of the > band, or some stuff-lipped woman with a violin and the rest of the > orchestra, or some tobacco-toothed hillbilly and the other country > hicks, etc). > > Terms like Electronica are ones designed by marketeers or other people > looking for descriptive ways to organize their inventory. The fact > that one might find Technotronic in the same section as Autechre is > more than telling that this category is bunk as hell. The term IDM is > one that, as far as I can recall, was bestowed upon the form mostly by > the combination of the music's listeners. > > A very specific term is good for a very specific musical form. "Rock" > described both Elvis and Tool. How is that possible? "Rock" is > generally meaningless, that's how. IDM has a meaning that both > undercuts and supercedes the industry it comes out of. One can produce > "techno" all day long, but there's nothing that will qualify it as IDM > aside from its merits and the general agreement of the listening > audience. > > This, of course, does not solve the whole "Is this IDM or what?" > dilemma (the dilemma being more oriented around the fool who doesn't > know that the music itself) but it does allow for the establishment of > basic criteria for attempting to satisfy that question. > > Pardon me, what the hell am I talking about? > > MG > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

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Luis-Manuel Garcia spake thusly:

quoted 1 line

>>>

the elitist, cartesian mind/body split poopyness it has come to connote.

quoted 1 line

>>>

Are you referring to the thick metaphysical, epistemological, or phenomenological "poopyness" that anti-Cartesians find so problematic? C'mon, man! Don’t just fart around some unsupported claims. Buttress your scata-logic with some good argumentation! ;-) Joel PS The new Shuttle 358 is quite sublime--but in a monistic, wholly integrated, non-Cartesian sort of way. Buy and enjoy. PPS How sad that this is probably my first post in about five years... -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.7 - Release Date: 2/10/2005 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Luis-Manuel Garcia <lgarcia@uchicago.edu> wrote:

quoted 1 line much as the Intelligent part

> much as the Intelligent part

Sometimes I fear the "I" in IDM = "add some random controllers on timing plus some noise'n hiss" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Well, yes and no. It still has to be music that people want to listen to. As a lazy musician, I've spent a lot of time fooling around with random processes, but unless you impose some selection and taste on the results, it sounds crap. Actually worse than crap, which causes a negative reaction. Randomly generated music has no emotional impact whatsoever. I can tell people how to make idm beats: 1. Load up a bunch of percussion samples into a sampler. 2. When you record percussion, do a bunch of random banging on the keys of your controller. 3. Quantize to 16th notes. 4. In Piano roll view, edit out the notes that sound 'wrong', and maybe add a few 'right' sounding hits. 5. add some 32nd or 64th note drum rolls from time to time as needed. Edit the velocity so they crescendo or decrescendo. Whether this ends up sounding like shit or being cool depends on your discrimination and taste during the editing process. I don't think any serious musician just adds noise and hiss. It's more of a case of the process they use generating sounds normally regarded as noise, or of using sound sources to which the noise and hiss is integral. Of course if you were just making a joke, and I've responded pedantically, never mind. On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 16:18:59 +0100, Michael Scheer <listen@autechre.de> wrote:

quoted 7 lines Luis-Manuel Garcia <lgarcia@uchicago.edu> wrote:

> Luis-Manuel Garcia <lgarcia@uchicago.edu> wrote: > > > much as the Intelligent part > > Sometimes I fear the "I" in IDM = "add some random controllers on > timing plus some noise'n hiss" >

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IDM...man i love this name. -- ThE0ReMa.B1NaR10 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 17:14:42 -0500, Theorema Binario <theorema.bin@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 5 lines IDM...man i love this name.

> IDM...man i love this name. > > -- > ThE0ReMa.B1NaR10 >

It's so nice, he had to say it twice. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org