IDM Mailing Archive

quoted 1 line [synctank]

>[synctank]

quoted 1 line skinny puppy: the process

>skinny puppy: the process

I was going through some papers in my house the other day and I found some press clipping put out by the band announcing Dwayne's death. Because they were on American Recordings at the time, there was a couple blurbs about how offended they were at the record label for trying to capitalize of his death. Well, it reminded me of that album, The Process, which was the only one they did for American. I remember how horrible I thought it was when it came out. Now I thought 'let's give it another spin. Maybe my sensiblilities have changed. I still really love a lot of their other stuff and maybe I was too quick to write it off. I'll dig it up and put it on.' Dude. What a fucking horrible album. Embarrasing. I know there was much turmoil working on the album even before Dwayne's death with them switching producers and studios and the band ultimately breaking up and then Dwayne died and they still had to finish the album for release. Still, even those aren't good enough excuses for putting out that piece of shit (minus the only decent song on there- Blue Serge I think it is). All those heavy metal guitars. Totally misdirected. None of the melodic stuff works for me, and the noisy electronic stuff is just a shadow of what they once were. And since I'm such a sucker, I can't wait to hear the new SP stuff (if it ever fucking comes out). The new Ohgr is better than his first solo release, although it has this shiny sparkly sheen which makes it sound like it's on a major label. Haven't heard that new Cevin Key thing. Give me Too Dark Park or Last Rights any day. Brian.

It's all about the Two Dark Park! A totally brilliant record. It still holds it's own today. If they can make tracks as good as "Frozen Sky"(the track with Ogre's vocals) on cEvin's Ghost of Every Room, I think it will be great. Rob ::::::Component Records::::::: Box 783, Somers, Ct 06071 www.componentrecords.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Albers, Brian A. <BAlbers@premiereradio.com> To: synctank <purist@synctank.net>; <chicagoidm@yahoogroups.com> Cc: <chicagoElectro@yahoogroups.com>; <idm@hyperreal.org>; <purist@yahoogroups.com>; <playlists@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 5:15 PM Subject: RE: [idm] hidden forms 122 > 08.09.03 > wnur 89.3fm chicago

quoted 6 lines [synctank]

> > >[synctank] > > >skinny puppy: the process > > I was going through some papers in my house the other day and I found some press clipping put out by the band announcing Dwayne's

death. Because they were on American Recordings at the time, there was a couple blurbs about how offended they were at the record label for trying to capitalize of his death.

quoted 2 lines Well, it reminded me of that album, The Process, which was the only one they did for Ameri

> > Well, it reminded me of that album, The Process, which was the only one they did for American. I remember how horrible I thought

it was when it came out.

quoted 2 lines Now I thought 'let's give it another spin. Maybe my sensiblilities have changed.

> > Now I thought 'let's give it another spin. Maybe my sensiblilities have changed. I still really love a lot of their other stuff

and maybe I was too quick to write it off. I'll dig it up and put it on.'

quoted 2 lines Dude. What a fucking horrible album. Embarrasing. I know there was much turmoil working on

> > Dude. What a fucking horrible album. Embarrasing. I know there was much turmoil working on the album even before Dwayne's death

with them switching producers and studios and the band ultimately breaking up and then Dwayne died and they still had to finish the album for release.

quoted 2 lines Still, even those aren't good enough excuses for putting out that piece of shit (minu

> > Still, even those aren't good enough excuses for putting out that piece of shit (minus the only decent song on there- Blue Serge I

think it is). All those heavy metal guitars. Totally misdirected. None of the melodic stuff works for me, and the noisy electronic stuff is just a shadow of what they once were.

quoted 2 lines And since I'm such a sucker, I can't wait to hear the new SP stuff (if it ever f

> > And since I'm such a sucker, I can't wait to hear the new SP stuff (if it ever fucking comes out). The new Ohgr is better than his

first solo release, although it has this shiny sparkly sheen which makes it sound like it's on a major label. Haven't heard that new Cevin Key thing.

quoted 3 lines Give me Too Dark Park or Last Rights any day. Brian.

> > Give me Too Dark Park or Last Rights any day. Brian. >

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quoted 4 lines It's all about the Two Dark Park!

>It's all about the Two Dark Park! > >A totally brilliant record. It still holds it's >own today.

yeah puppy is one of those bands that even during the whole glut of post-jourgensen industrial/metal crossover shit i always thought would stay true to their roots, and then they fucking dropped that process crap. it kind of sealed the whole thing for me, that and "filth pig" by ministry. those 2 records came out right around the same time and both sucked so hard i was unable to listen to ministry, cocks or skinny puppy for almost 10 years. i just rediscovered all those 3 though and thankfully most of it holds up exceptionally, especially puppy. unfortunately my heroin addict former roommate converted most of my puppy cd catalog into scabs on his arms, so i was left with only the vinyl copies of vivisectvi and mind-tpi ... i went out a couple weekends ago and repurchased too dark park along with twitch and land of rape and honey by ministry. too dark park was such a revelation to me in high school -- the distorted drumloop on nature's revenge where it skips the beat every 17 beats or so fucking blew my young mind, and the intensity of the production rivals the bomb squad of public enemy fame in terms of densly packed layers of sound. brilliance. ministry's twitch and l.o.r+h were (in my humble opinion) the pinnacle of their career, propbably peaking with l.o.r+h and waning a bit with "the mind is a terrible thing to taste", which had some brilliant stuff on it but also had the song "test" which was a horrible omen of shitty rap/rock fusions yet to come. put on land of rape and honey some time and see if you don't erupt into a spontaneous solo mosh pit a la medusa's c. 1990 ... you can't stop it. "the missing" and "deity" really set the bar for all that metal-guitar driven industrial shit that never quite reached as far as that record. twitch on the other hand came before al got his chugga-chugga on and when he was still flirting ever so lightly with his "no really, i'm from london, not hyde park" persona ... it's a fucking masterpiece of cheezy industrial pop, and is especially interesting to digest in tandem with it's bizzaro twin album made during the same recording sessions, revolting cocks "big sexy land". anyway shit i kind of ran off on this tangent. i hope others will share some special al jourgensen memories that don't involve vomit or lollapalooza. thanks for your time. -aprox ps. my next post will analyze what happened when puppy and jourgensen got together to make that somewhat flawed, somewhat brilliant, fully schizophrenic concoction known as "rabies". --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Tuesday, August 12, 2003, at 10:38 PM, Aster X Prodax wrote:

quoted 5 lines yeah puppy is one of those bands that even during the whole glut of

> > yeah puppy is one of those bands that even during the whole glut of > post-jourgensen industrial/metal crossover shit i always thought would > stay true to their roots, and then they fucking dropped that process > crap.

you know, i see a lot of people posting this, but i just dont get it. aside from candle, the cd was a general continuation of everything they've ever done. it felt like skinny puppy, and made sense as far as musical evolution goes. it was a good cd, i'm just wondering why people refer to it as crap without actually saying what they dont like about it.

quoted 3 lines ps. my next post will analyze what happened when puppy and jourgensen

> ps. my next post will analyze what happened when puppy and jourgensen > got together to make that somewhat flawed, somewhat brilliant, fully > schizophrenic concoction known as "rabies".

im looking forward to this. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

At 11:03 PM 8/12/2003 -0400, you wrote:

quoted 12 lines On Tuesday, August 12, 2003, at 10:38 PM, Aster X Prodax wrote:

>On Tuesday, August 12, 2003, at 10:38 PM, Aster X Prodax wrote: >> >>yeah puppy is one of those bands that even during the whole glut of >>post-jourgensen industrial/metal crossover shit i always thought would >>stay true to their roots, and then they fucking dropped that process crap. > >you know, i see a lot of people posting this, but i just dont get it. > >aside from candle, the cd was a general continuation of everything they've >ever done. it felt like skinny puppy, and made sense as far as musical >evolution goes. it was a good cd, i'm just wondering why people refer to >it as crap without actually saying what they dont like about it.

I think you need to have grown up with 80's industrial to really enjoy it, as there's definitely the element of "doing it first even though it's not that exciting in hindsight." Most everyone who's spoken to me about it has said "oh man, at the time it blew my mind!" When I listened to Too Dark Park, I was mostly bored by it. Maybe I didn't take enough drugs? Perhaps listening to it over 10 years after it came out tainted it? Maybe it wasn't really that good? ;D But yeah. It seems that if you weren't into it in the 80's, the only way to get into it now is to fully adopt a gothy lifestyle. derek -- eggytoast.com - eggtastic.com ----- it's in your grocer's freezer --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Puppy's one of the only industrial artists from those days that still drops my jaw. Meat Beat Manifesto, too. Nobody's really done it like that since. Renegade Soundwave also falls into this category for me, but I wouldn't consider it industrial. Rape and Honey comes close, still can't decide about 242 (too many positive associations to be objective). Can I get a shout out for Severed Heads? Along these lines, anybody interested in checking out some new industrial should listen to Kill Memory Crash on Ghostly. It's the first fresh stuff I've heard for a while. Perhaps the beginning of a renaissance a la electroclash? Certainly worthy of it... big ups to the late 80's Medusa's posse! Those all-ages nights were certainly an eye opener for an ignorant lad from the suburbs... chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "EggyToast" <eggy@eggtastic.com> To: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 9:23 PM Subject: Re: [idm] puppy (was: hidden forms 122...)

quoted 7 lines At 11:03 PM 8/12/2003 -0400, you wrote:

> At 11:03 PM 8/12/2003 -0400, you wrote: > > >On Tuesday, August 12, 2003, at 10:38 PM, Aster X Prodax wrote: > >> > >>yeah puppy is one of those bands that even during the whole glut of > >>post-jourgensen industrial/metal crossover shit i always thought would > >>stay true to their roots, and then they fucking dropped that process

crap.

quoted 4 lines you know, i see a lot of people posting this, but i just dont get it.

> > > >you know, i see a lot of people posting this, but i just dont get it. > > > >aside from candle, the cd was a general continuation of everything

they've

quoted 7 lines ever done. it felt like skinny puppy, and made sense as far as musical

> >ever done. it felt like skinny puppy, and made sense as far as musical > >evolution goes. it was a good cd, i'm just wondering why people refer to > >it as crap without actually saying what they dont like about it. > > I think you need to have grown up with 80's industrial to really enjoy it, > as there's definitely the element of "doing it first even though it's not > that exciting in hindsight." Most everyone who's spoken to me about it

has

quoted 3 lines said "oh man, at the time it blew my mind!"

> said "oh man, at the time it blew my mind!" > > When I listened to Too Dark Park, I was mostly bored by it. Maybe I

didn't

quoted 1 line take enough drugs? Perhaps listening to it over 10 years after it came

> take enough drugs? Perhaps listening to it over 10 years after it came

out

quoted 18 lines tainted it?

> tainted it? > > Maybe it wasn't really that good? ;D > > But yeah. It seems that if you weren't into it in the 80's, the only way > to get into it now is to fully adopt a gothy lifestyle. > > derek > -- > eggytoast.com - eggtastic.com > ----- > it's in your grocer's freezer > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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quoted 4 lines Puppy's one of the only industrial artists from those days that still drops

> Puppy's one of the only industrial artists from those days that still drops > my jaw. Meat Beat Manifesto, too. Nobody's really done it like that since. > Renegade Soundwave also falls into this category for me, but I wouldn't > consider it industrial.

Renegade soundwave is fun stuff. I see them closer to Pop Will Eat Itself than industrial.

quoted 2 lines Rape and Honey comes close, still can't decide about 242 (too many positive

> Rape and Honey comes close, still can't decide about 242 (too many positive > associations to be objective).

Tyranny for You was a pretty amazing CD. The production was ultra tight. I was kinda bummed when they went all murking on Evil Off and the other one that came out about the same time. I picked up the new 242 Ep and I REALLY didn't like it. Not sure what's up with that.

quoted 1 line Can I get a shout out for Severed Heads?

> Can I get a shout out for Severed Heads?

Umm.....

quoted 4 lines Along these lines, anybody interested in checking out some new industrial

> Along these lines, anybody interested in checking out some new industrial > should listen to Kill Memory Crash on Ghostly. It's the first fresh stuff > I've heard for a while. Perhaps the beginning of a renaissance a la > electroclash? Certainly worthy of it...

Well it could happen we've surely got enough angst to go around...Crap economy, dubya's imperialism.... Rob! --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Funny that this came up yesterday as I was sitting here Iming co-workers to see if any of them had some SP or ministry mp3s. Too Dark Park never gets tired, I love that album and am still kicking myself for not taking my friend up on those free tickets cuz "I ain't no fucking goth"!!! Last rights is great too and the 12" version of inquisition drops in real nicely in an idm set. - Renegade Soundwave, yeah they're very different but jeez those basslines are incredible. - As for Kill memory crash, if there is a renaissance then they're definitely leading the way. That 12" is really good, it's hard and dirty with a definite idm/electro tint to it. It's refreshing to hear stuff like that and good to hear people talking about it. It seems like we've hit a lull in terms of good idm records coming out and the interest in all out idm wankery seems to be getting faint. It would be nice to see something new rise up out of all of this, strongly rooted here but going somewhere else. I don't know about the rest of you guys but vocals, dancing and community are the things that excite me these days. I don't need all three at the same time but I do need at least one. What's on my ipod? 1994, you know, when IDM was the shit! There's such a lack of focus these days, you can't mix one record with the other because everyone's off being an egotistical circuit board surfer. When did we all get so insular and mellow, it makes me feel old. - Are there any 18 yr olds on this list anymore, do the college kids give a fuck anymore? I hope so. - -----Original Message----- From: component [mailto:component@mindstorm.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 8:45 AM To: Chris Henry; idm@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [idm] puppy (was: hidden forms 122...)

quoted 2 lines Puppy's one of the only industrial artists from those days that still

> Puppy's one of the only industrial artists from those days that still > drops my jaw. Meat Beat Manifesto, too. Nobody's really done it like

quoted 2 lines that since. Renegade Soundwave also falls into this category for me,

> that since. Renegade Soundwave also falls into this category for me, > but I wouldn't consider it industrial.

Renegade soundwave is fun stuff. I see them closer to Pop Will Eat Itself than industrial.

quoted 2 lines Rape and Honey comes close, still can't decide about 242 (too many

> Rape and Honey comes close, still can't decide about 242 (too many > positive associations to be objective).

Tyranny for You was a pretty amazing CD. The production was ultra tight. I was kinda bummed when they went all murking on Evil Off and the other one that came out about the same time. I picked up the new 242 Ep and I REALLY didn't like it. Not sure what's up with that.

quoted 1 line Can I get a shout out for Severed Heads?

> Can I get a shout out for Severed Heads?

Umm.....

quoted 4 lines Along these lines, anybody interested in checking out some new

> Along these lines, anybody interested in checking out some new > industrial should listen to Kill Memory Crash on Ghostly. It's the > first fresh stuff I've heard for a while. Perhaps the beginning of a > renaissance a la electroclash? Certainly worthy of it...

Well it could happen we've surely got enough angst to go around...Crap economy, dubya's imperialism.... Rob! --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 2 lines Are there any 18 yr olds on this list anymore, do the college kids give

> Are there any 18 yr olds on this list anymore, do the college kids give > a fuck anymore? I hope so.

College kid here! :) Not 18 anymore though, 24. Anyways, for me IDM is about making new stuff, exploring new sounds and to be honest I generally don't care wether my music is danceable or dj'able or not. In that respect, I feel a lot of affinity with skinny puppy and the like because in those days it was all about doing stuff with your equipment that was not in the manuals, and that was all that mattered. I don't mind the party scene, but I don't care for it either.

quoted 4 lines I don't know about the rest of you guys but vocals, dancing and

> I don't know about the rest of you guys but vocals, dancing and > community are the things that excite me these days. I don't need all > three at the same time but I do need at least one. What's on my ipod? > 1994, you know, when IDM was the shit!

I don't think Sean & Rob, to name a bunch, really gave a fuck wether their beats worked well on the dancefloor back in '94. They were cool because they felt like discovering new beats and new sounds and they didn't worry too much about sounding 'IDM' because at that time it did not really exist as such. They didn't worry about being hip-hop enough either, which is probably the reason why they became so cool in the first place. I have a theory and it goes like this: once you can think up a name for a genre, the genre is artistically dead. Why? Well, the moment people start calling a genre by a name, there is a certain agreed-upon stylistic element to the music that becomes it's defining property. At that point, you cannot by definition be a style-X artist anymore without sounding the part; e.g. if you don't sound like all the other drill 'n bass acts, you're not a drill 'n bass act. Try this trick with your favorite genre. The problem you described earlier:

quoted 1 line It seems like we've hit a lull in terms of good idm records coming out

> It seems like we've hit a lull in terms of good idm records coming out

..is effectively the IDM genre fallling into this trap. Soon, there will be only copycats. And why? Essentially it is your own fault :) Look at this again:

quoted 1 line It seems like we've hit a lull in terms of good _idm_ records coming out

> It seems like we've hit a lull in terms of good _idm_ records coming out

..so, basically, you are waiting for albums that sound more or less like what you already know, at least enough to fit into your idea of what IDM is, and yet at the same time you expect these records to be as fresh and original as those early records back in '94? There is a contradiction here, don't you agree? Look for stuff that does _not_ sound IDM. Fuck IDM!

quoted 60 lines -

> - > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: component [mailto:component@mindstorm.com] > Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 8:45 AM > To: Chris Henry; idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: Re: [idm] puppy (was: hidden forms 122...) > > > > Puppy's one of the only industrial artists from those days that still > > drops my jaw. Meat Beat Manifesto, too. Nobody's really done it like > > > that since. Renegade Soundwave also falls into this category for me, > > but I wouldn't consider it industrial. > > Renegade soundwave is fun stuff. I see them closer to Pop Will Eat > Itself > than industrial. > > > Rape and Honey comes close, still can't decide about 242 (too many > > positive associations to be objective). > > Tyranny for You was a pretty amazing CD. The production was ultra tight. > > I was kinda bummed when they went all murking on Evil Off and the other > one that came out about the same time. I picked up the new 242 Ep and > I REALLY didn't like it. Not sure what's up with that. > > > Can I get a shout out for Severed Heads? > > Umm..... > > > Along these lines, anybody interested in checking out some new > > industrial should listen to Kill Memory Crash on Ghostly. It's the > > first fresh stuff I've heard for a while. Perhaps the beginning of a > > renaissance a la electroclash? Certainly worthy of it... > > Well it could happen we've surely got enough angst to go around...Crap > economy, > dubya's imperialism.... > > > Rob! > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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quoted 1 line Look for stuff that does _not_ sound IDM. Fuck IDM!

> Look for stuff that does _not_ sound IDM. Fuck IDM!

..let me rephrase that: fuck the idea of IDM being a genre. Think about it as a way of thinking, or better still: as an incarnation of the same way of thinking that industrial was when it was at its best. What i'm saying is: look out for the next incarnation, don't look back too much. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Bah! I'm so bored with the bedroom hermits... From space to circuits, I chose space. -----Original Message----- From: Denis de Leeuw Duarte [mailto:denis@ch.its.tudelft.nl] Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 11:34 AM To: Record Camp Cc: 'component'; idm@hyperreal.org Subject: RE: [idm] puppy (was: hidden forms 122...)

quoted 2 lines Are there any 18 yr olds on this list anymore, do the college kids

> Are there any 18 yr olds on this list anymore, do the college kids > give a fuck anymore? I hope so.

College kid here! :) Not 18 anymore though, 24. Anyways, for me IDM is about making new stuff, exploring new sounds and to be honest I generally don't care wether my music is danceable or dj'able or not. In that respect, I feel a lot of affinity with skinny puppy and the like because in those days it was all about doing stuff with your equipment that was not in the manuals, and that was all that mattered. I don't mind the party scene, but I don't care for it either.

quoted 4 lines I don't know about the rest of you guys but vocals, dancing and

> I don't know about the rest of you guys but vocals, dancing and > community are the things that excite me these days. I don't need all > three at the same time but I do need at least one. What's on my ipod? > 1994, you know, when IDM was the shit!

I don't think Sean & Rob, to name a bunch, really gave a fuck wether their beats worked well on the dancefloor back in '94. They were cool because they felt like discovering new beats and new sounds and they didn't worry too much about sounding 'IDM' because at that time it did not really exist as such. They didn't worry about being hip-hop enough either, which is probably the reason why they became so cool in the first place. I have a theory and it goes like this: once you can think up a name for a genre, the genre is artistically dead. Why? Well, the moment people start calling a genre by a name, there is a certain agreed-upon stylistic element to the music that becomes it's defining property. At that point, you cannot by definition be a style-X artist anymore without sounding the part; e.g. if you don't sound like all the other drill 'n bass acts, you're not a drill 'n bass act. Try this trick with your favorite genre. The problem you described earlier:

quoted 1 line It seems like we've hit a lull in terms of good idm records coming out

> It seems like we've hit a lull in terms of good idm records coming out

..is effectively the IDM genre fallling into this trap. Soon, there will be only copycats. And why? Essentially it is your own fault :) Look at this again:

quoted 2 lines It seems like we've hit a lull in terms of good _idm_ records coming

> It seems like we've hit a lull in terms of good _idm_ records coming > out

..so, basically, you are waiting for albums that sound more or less like what you already know, at least enough to fit into your idea of what IDM is, and yet at the same time you expect these records to be as fresh and original as those early records back in '94? There is a contradiction here, don't you agree? Look for stuff that does _not_ sound IDM. Fuck IDM!

quoted 15 lines -

> - > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: component [mailto:component@mindstorm.com] > Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 8:45 AM > To: Chris Henry; idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: Re: [idm] puppy (was: hidden forms 122...) > > > > Puppy's one of the only industrial artists from those days that > > still drops my jaw. Meat Beat Manifesto, too. Nobody's really done

quoted 3 lines it like

> > it like > > > that since. Renegade Soundwave also falls into this category for me,

quoted 25 lines but I wouldn't consider it industrial.

> > but I wouldn't consider it industrial. > > Renegade soundwave is fun stuff. I see them closer to Pop Will Eat > Itself than industrial. > > > Rape and Honey comes close, still can't decide about 242 (too many > > positive associations to be objective). > > Tyranny for You was a pretty amazing CD. The production was ultra > tight. > > I was kinda bummed when they went all murking on Evil Off and the > other one that came out about the same time. I picked up the new 242 > Ep and I REALLY didn't like it. Not sure what's up with that. > > > Can I get a shout out for Severed Heads? > > Umm..... > > > Along these lines, anybody interested in checking out some new > > industrial should listen to Kill Memory Crash on Ghostly. It's the > > first fresh stuff I've heard for a while. Perhaps the beginning of > > a renaissance a la electroclash? Certainly worthy of it... > > Well it could happen we've surely got enough angst to go around...Crap

quoted 17 lines economy, dubya's imperialism....

> economy, dubya's imperialism.... > > > Rob! > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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quoted 7 lines I don't know about the rest of you guys but vocals, dancing and

>I don't know about the rest of you guys but vocals, dancing and >community are the things that excite me these days. I don't need all >three at the same time but I do need at least one. What's on my ipod? >1994, you know, when IDM was the shit! There's such a lack of focus >these days, you can't mix one record with the other because everyone's >off being an egotistical circuit board surfer. When did we all get so >insular and mellow, it makes me feel old.

I have to agree, hardly anything released this year has interested me apart from the new MF Doom album. Recently I've been rediscovering/getting into early AE, Throbbing Gristle, Kraftwerk, Black Dog, Humanoid, Juan Atkins and my word does it sound FRESH compared to most of the stuff released recently. I'm beginning to come to the conclusion that dance/electronic music in general reached it's peak around 15 years ago. Seriously. Combined with a massive decline in posts to this list (eBay listings not withstanding) makes me think that there are less and less good new ideas out there and that the tenuious IDM scene is dead. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Wed, 13 Aug 2003, Glenn McClements wrote:

quoted 2 lines are less and less good new ideas out there and that the tenuious IDM

> are less and less good new ideas out there and that the tenuious IDM > scene is dead.

Funny, I thought the exact opposite after getting back from Mutek. IDM is dead! Long live IDM! w --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 11 lines are less and less good new ideas out there and that the tenuious IDM

> > >>are less and less good new ideas out there and that the tenuious IDM >>scene is dead. >> >> > >Funny, I thought the exact opposite after getting back from Mutek. > >IDM is dead! Long live IDM! >

Must just be me getting old and jaded then :-)

in the last year more then half of the parties i visited were shot down by cops or other scum i know it- if gestapo tactics to kill dancing music scene wouldnt exist- we'd have sound systems in every single park in all major, minor and small cities, towns, whatever is there producind killowatts of music 24 hours a day and all the fools in the world would be out there partying, dancing and listening instead of geting porky drunk in front of tv-s or in shitholes called pubs __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

svin said:

quoted 6 lines in the last year more then half of the parties i

> in the last year more then half of the parties i > visited were shot down by cops or other scum > > i know it- > if gestapo tactics to kill dancing music scene > wouldnt exist-

the half dozen shows I've seen over the past year haven't had any police presence. then again, there wasn't much, if any, of a drug presence, either. derek -- eggytoast.com - eggtastic.com ------ it's in your grocer's freezer --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

How has things like Soulseek affected our list/scene/genre???? Maybe we're not really talking much because it is soo easy to get this stuff we move so quickly from one to another not allowing enough time to appreciate them? Just a thought. Glenn McClements <glenn.mcclements@openwave.com> wrote:

quoted 7 lines I don't know about the rest of you guys but vocals, dancing and

>I don't know about the rest of you guys but vocals, dancing and >community are the things that excite me these days. I don't need all >three at the same time but I do need at least one. What's on my ipod? >1994, you know, when IDM was the shit! There's such a lack of focus >these days, you can't mix one record with the other because everyone's >off being an egotistical circuit board surfer. When did we all get so >insular and mellow, it makes me feel old.

I have to agree, hardly anything released this year has interested me apart from the new MF Doom album. Recently I've been rediscovering/getting into early AE, Throbbing Gristle, Kraftwerk, Black Dog, Humanoid, Juan Atkins and my word does it sound FRESH compared to most of the stuff released recently. I'm beginning to come to the conclusion that dance/electronic music in general reached it's peak around 15 years ago. Seriously. Combined with a massive decline in posts to this list (eBay listings not withstanding) makes me think that there are less and less good new ideas out there and that the tenuious IDM scene is dead. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software

Gil Videla said:

quoted 4 lines How has things like Soulseek affected our list/scene/genre????

> How has things like Soulseek affected our list/scene/genre???? > Maybe we're not really talking much because it is soo easy to get this > stuff we move so quickly from one to another not allowing enough time > to appreciate them? Just a thought.

I'm sure that's some of it -- there's definitely more traffic when SoulSeek goes down :D But it also wouldn't surprise me if most of the time the album conversations have moved to real-time chat things like IRC and SoulSeek, since you can supplement reviews with "Here, listen to this track." You can't really do that via email. Another factor is that the names people are used to either aren't making music anymore, or are making music that isn't very good or is drastically different from what they were making before. The good music is, like it was 5-10 years ago, from small artists on small labels without a lot of fanfare. It's still IDM, it's still familiar, and it's still GOOD. It's just not on Warp and it's not by Autechre. derek -- eggytoast.com - eggtastic.com ------ it's in your grocer's freezer --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Right I was thinking that artists like Cim has taken the place of the early IDM/Artificial Intelligence style in a 2000-era flava.... I have to admit, I too have become jaded and dont care for much post 1998... this isn't to say good stuff doesn't come out, but there are a variety of reasons why we don't talk about it on this list and you've pointed to a critical one as well (IMO) EggyToast <eggy@eggtastic.com> wrote: The good music is, like it was 5-10 years ago, from small artists on small labels without a lot of fanfare. It's still IDM, it's still familiar, and it's still GOOD. It's just not on Warp and it's not by Autechre. derek -- eggytoast.com - eggtastic.com ------ it's in your grocer's freezer --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software

quoted 7 lines Rape and Honey comes close, still can't decide about 242 (too many positive

>> Rape and Honey comes close, still can't decide about 242 (too many positive >> associations to be objective). > >Tyranny for You was a pretty amazing CD. The production was ultra tight. >I was kinda bummed when they went all murking on Evil Off and the other >one that came out about the same time. I picked up the new 242 Ep and >I REALLY didn't like it. Not sure what's up with that.

yeah tyranny is amazing ... i still use it for a reference disc when i am trying to get a mix to lay down in the speakers just right ... pop it thru a spectral analyzer sometime if you want to see maximized distribution of frequency bandwidth. that shit is tight. old 242 stuff still packs a dancefloor, especially following that electro revival from last year ... masterhit 12" anyone? put it on +4 and watch the floor go wild -aprox --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 4 lines As for Kill memory crash, if there is a renaissance then they're

> As for Kill memory crash, if there is a renaissance then they're > definitely leading the way. That 12" is really good, it's hard and dirty > with a definite idm/electro tint to it. It's refreshing to hear stuff > like that and good to hear people talking about it.

I dunno, while i liked the Kill Memory Crash alot, haven't they been around forever. I'd like a seriously good reinvention of that kind of sound, but i just don't see it (yet). There are alot of kids who formerly identified as industrial doing "idm" influenced stuff, but the better artists that i've heard have moved way beyond ebm/electro. I'm not on top of the hottest "club" ebm stuff, but the last stuff i heard was still stuck on some pretty bad trance hybrid.

quoted 7 lines I don't know about the rest of you guys but vocals, dancing and

> I don't know about the rest of you guys but vocals, dancing and > community are the things that excite me these days. I don't need all > three at the same time but I do need at least one. What's on my ipod? > 1994, you know, when IDM was the shit! There's such a lack of focus > these days, you can't mix one record with the other because everyone's > off being an egotistical circuit board surfer. When did we all get so > insular and mellow, it makes me feel old.

Sadly, i think you're in the minority if you're a social, dancing idm kid. I'm not extremely social, but i'm definitely pro having fun and getting down to some fucked up beats.

quoted 2 lines Are there any 18 yr olds on this list anymore, do the college kids give

> Are there any 18 yr olds on this list anymore, do the college kids give > a fuck anymore? I hope so.

I don't know about this list, but the message boards seem to be full of younger idm fanboys. It seems kind of strange that there is as much interest as there is. -cutups WRECKED diy electronic music and media http://rhinoplex.org/wrecked --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 8 lines I have a theory and it goes like this: once you can think up a name for a

> I have a theory and it goes like this: once you can think up a name for a > genre, the genre is artistically dead. Why? Well, the moment people > start calling a genre by a name, there is a certain agreed-upon > stylistic element to the music that becomes it's defining property. At > that point, you cannot by definition be a style-X artist anymore without > sounding the part; e.g. if you don't sound like all the other drill 'n > bass acts, you're not a drill 'n bass act. Try this trick with your > favorite genre.

Okay, I'll pick... IDM. Now let's see... what is "the agreed-upon stylistic element" between say, Venetian Snares, Boards of Canada, Autechre, Chris Clark, Leafcutter John, Shuttle358 and Amon Tobin? Oh dear, I can't think of any! I just can't agree with the claim that "It seems like we've hit a lull in terms of good idm records coming out". Not only are tons of great IDM records coming out, lot of progression in new directions is happening all the time (for example incorporating elements of electroacoustic music, breakcore or folk-music). {Oh yeah, Venetian Snares didn't really sound like "all the other drill 'n bass acts", yet he is now labeled as one.} There are a lot of good ideas out there and the IDM scene is alive and well. .: visa tapani --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 4 lines {Oh yeah, Venetian Snares didn't really sound like "all the other drill 'n

> {Oh yeah, Venetian Snares didn't really sound like "all the other drill 'n > bass acts", yet he is now labeled as one.} > > There are a lot of good ideas out there and the IDM scene is alive and

well. Not to bring up the never- ending genre argument. But the problem...(and its not so much a problem as a blessing) is that "IDM" isn't really a genre, and doesn't really have a strict definition. So yeah - i'd agree that there's plenty of good stuff coming out. But i have realllly broad taste. Of course, at the same time it could be a horrible time for people who prefer a different, specific subset of sounds. - cutups WRECKED diy electronic music and media http://rhinoplex.org/wrecked --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 7 lines Not to bring up the never- ending genre argument.

> > >Not to bring up the never- ending genre argument. >But the problem...(and its not so much a problem as a blessing) >is that "IDM" isn't really a genre, and doesn't really have a strict >definition. >

Exactly, as far as I'm concerned IDM is this mailing list and nothing else. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 4 lines Not to bring up the never- ending genre argument.

> Not to bring up the never- ending genre argument. > But the problem...(and its not so much a problem as a blessing) > is that "IDM" isn't really a genre, and doesn't really have a strict > definition.

I vote for idm as intentionally ambigious (the name says it all), plus it saves all those discussions centered around people using the same word differently. Either that or we have to start calling it laptop rock or something. As a bonus, under this definition there is LOTS of really good music coming out all the time. works for me chris --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org