IDM Mailing Archive

----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Finoki" <finoki@lucasarts.com> To: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 3:11 PM Subject: [idm] Random Inquiries

quoted 1 line How much further can electronic music be explored? are we beginning to

> How much further can electronic music be explored? are we beginning to

feel

quoted 3 lines the claustrophobic nature of the technological limitations, or is there

> the claustrophobic nature of the technological limitations, or is there > infinite breath to express ourselves in them? in places other than > headphones and club spaces?

there's no limit. ask mystikal.

quoted 1 line Can this music take on higher application to other groups of people

> Can this music take on higher application to other groups of people

outside

quoted 2 lines of ourselves, like the blind for example, and serve as alterior sets of

> of ourselves, like the blind for example, and serve as alterior sets of > eyes?

i thought that's what the dogs were for.

quoted 2 lines Where do you view the current point of the music's evolution on the

> > Where do you view the current point of the music's evolution on the

timeline

quoted 1 line within the genre?

> within the genre?

the IDM genre is probably dead. everything has taken on a new genre instead (glitch, lowercase (sorry), click hop, whatever other stupid names people have come up with). but, within this, i still think the overall genre is in the baby stages. Autechre are the Sugarhill Gang of IDM. i can see a lot of room, and a lot of things that haven't been done. there have been a lot of groundbreaking new sounds that are unlike anything else even in the past year. i think "do you know squarepusher?" is incredible in the fact that it's really out there. obviously influences from other genres are apparent, but the end result is completely new and never been done. track two, f-trane... i can't name anything that's remotely close to it. i think people feel that the IDM genre is out of room because everything new is rather similar. this happens with any new genre. because IDM is so young, a lot of people have been around since the beginning. six to eight years ago, everything was new. there was nothing like keynell when it came out. obvioulsy that's a lot more exciting than anything that comes out these days because it's usually not 100% new like it used to be. unfortunately it requires a lot more digging to find a GREAT IDM record these days because everyone on this list has a record out now :) --- i also feel that the genre has gotten a bit lazy and people are focusing on doing what's already been done instead of exploring and spending time writing good melodies or thinking things over. the whole genre lacks concept.

quoted 2 lines Does the music seem to be boiling down more and more to essentially the

> > Does the music seem to be boiling down more and more to essentially the

same

quoted 1 line format, same sounds, same spectrum of experience?

> format, same sounds, same spectrum of experience?

it does seem that way for the reasons stated above. i also think listeners have gotten lazy as well. they're quick to say "this sounds like x" when they're only paying attention to the similarities. there's still a lot of variety, you just have to listen harder.

quoted 2 lines Are we ready for new technology to enable further revolution here? ...

> > Are we ready for new technology to enable further revolution here? ...

i'm not bored with the current technology, thanks.

quoted 2 lines What would be your dream piece of gear, your optimal interface for making

> What would be your dream piece of gear, your optimal interface for making > music? .... the wind, the seismicity of earthquakes?

fruityloops with variations in pattern lengths

quoted 2 lines Where do we hear the limitations in this music, and where still do we see

> Where do we hear the limitations in this music, and where still do we see > room for further exploration?

i think people are limiting themselves in writing. most artists in the genre don't know thing one about music theory (including myself). but they use this as an excuse to use layered pads, clicking one key at a time. if people would pick up a book on basic chords and progression, i can really see a great deal of benefit to that. no one cares about writing, they just want it to sound neat.

quoted 5 lines Are we hearing aggregations of sanitized sound, merely the extent to which

> > Are we hearing aggregations of sanitized sound, merely the extent to which > music can be represented and manipulated through code, have we begun to > exhaust the idea of sampling, how inevitable is the avant garde doomed for > the commercial here?

i don't know anything about agriculture.

quoted 1 line i dont know....just wanted to start babbling, i have amuzzle and will put

> i dont know....just wanted to start babbling, i have amuzzle and will put

it

quoted 1 line on now.

> on now.

i think i'll enjoy this topic if people take some time to reply. jon tenandtracer acre plug: my full length is out now, exclusive to http://www.u-cover.com until september. seventeen months of work. pages and pages of concepts, and seriously... CHORDS!

quoted 5 lines ---------------------------------------------------------------------

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In a message dated 8/7/2002 5:17:47 PM Central Daylight Time, lists@acre-c.com writes:

quoted 7 lines most artists in the

> most artists in the > genre don't know thing one about music theory (including myself). but they > use this as an excuse to use layered pads, clicking one key at a time. if > people would pick up a book on basic chords and progression, i can really > see a great deal of benefit to that. no one cares about writing, they just > want it to sound neat. >

that is the direction i'd like electronic music to go...are there currently any artist out now doing this? kaiser np: do make say think

What do you think of this? http://www.mp3.com/dewdrop_world (try "candle dance" especially--the intro's kind of long, but it heats up at about 3'. Gets crazier between 6'30" and 10'. Full disclosure: this is my latest track. A new version will go up in the next few weeks--I've been tweeking the mix a bit. Apologies for the low graphic content on the website!)

quoted 6 lines most artists in the

> > most artists in the > > genre don't know thing one about music theory > (including myself). > that is the direction i'd like electronic music to > go...are there currently > any artist out now doing this?

===== ____ James Harkins \ / jamshark70@yahoo.com \/ http://www.duke.edu/~jharkins "... love and hot pants, peace and harmony..." -- Dick Lee, Hot Pants: The Musical __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

"How much further can electronic music be explored? are we beginning to feel the claustrophobic nature of the technological limitations, or is there infinite breath to express ourselves in them? in places other than headphones and club spaces?" electronic music has nearly infinite possibilities. electronic music as we know it is becoming somewhat dated though. human expression is something electronic music is just now beginning to explore....most electronic stuff is rather emotionally lacking. with people like aphex and autechre and those before them (eno comes to mind) electronic music is just recently becoming a means for people to express themselves. "Can this music take on higher application to other groups of people outside of ourselves, like the blind for example, and serve as alterior sets of eyes?" possibly i guess. i doubt it though. "Where do you view the current point of the music's evolution on the timeline within the genre?" i think it's right after a bit of a fork in the road. i don't hear much common ground between many artists anymore....it seems like they all kinda got desterted on islands, and are forced to evolve. and with evolution comes death of the weakest. and i firmly believe there is some seriously weak shit abound right now. i'm looking forward to this mass abundance of mediocrity to be a thing of the past. "Does the music seem to be boiling down more and more to essentially the same format, same sounds, same spectrum of experience?" it sounds like that to many because they have heard so much that it becomes a blur. overexposure sort of....but i also think so because most artists don't focus on creating fresh sounds. not that i necessarily think everyone should focus tons of writing time towards getting completely unique sounds, but it does add a lot of spice that many artists don't use. as for the spectrum of experience, i don't see that as a problem, because all the IDM acts i know of have rather diverse and unique tastes in influences and life experience. i just don't think many of them are any good at translating such things into their own music. "Are we ready for new technology to enable further revolution here? ... " artists are always ready and waiting for new technology to use. we don't need anymore than what is available in order for a complete revolution to occur. everyone just needs to learn how to severely twist what is there to achieve their end goals. "What would be your dream piece of gear, your optimal interface for making music? .... the wind, the seismicity of earthquakes?" rain i think. i would have to also be in control of what the rain was hitting too (rocks, puddles, leafs, etc.) in order to have that vision work correctly. "Where do we hear the limitations in this music, and where still do we see room for further exploration?" the main limitation i see is in traditional keyboards/drum machines and the like. not that they don't have a place, they certainly do. they are often stale though. i don't see them being used in any interesting or creative ways usually. room for exploration: i see found sounds and observational music (recordings of general ambiences and whatnot) having some potential. i don't by any means see it as the future of electronic music. the possibilities within computer created music are just being glimpsed right now. if anything is the future, it's that. but then again that's not too far from the present. "Are we hearing aggregations of sanitized sound, merely the extent to which music can be represented and manipulated through code, have we begun to exhaust the idea of sampling, how inevitable is the avant garde doomed for the commercial here?" the possibilities of sampling are limitless. no one is good enough with them to really show us amazing things with them yet though. i'm waiting for mozart with a sampler i guess. and no, i'm not talking about aphex twin. as for the avante garde doomed to commercialism....who cares? anyone who may reply to this, please send an email directly to me (cichli@aol.com) along with yr copy to the actual list, because i have terrible problems recieving any mail from the IDM list itself, so i generally get less than half of what is on here. :jason (ecux - www.zenapolae.com) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 5 lines most artists in the genre don't know thing one about music theory

> > most artists in the genre don't know thing one about music theory > >(including myself). but they use this as an excuse to use layered pads, > >clicking one key at a time. if people would pick up a book on basic > >chords and progression, i can really see a great deal of benefit to > >that. no one cares about writing, they just want it to sound neat.

Well, I understand what you're getting at here, but what makes "melody" inherently better than "sound". I formally studied music theory for many years, and what drew me to electronic music in general was the LACK of reliance on melody, tonality, etc. As far as I'm concerned, someone going out and picking up a book on chords would do nothing but turn the electonic realm into a clone of bad rock. My personal belief is that musical structure as a whole is what's important. You can create a fantastic piece of music without chordal progressions or melodies, it's a matter of structuring the sounds so that there is some sort of pattern, be it rhythmic, timbral, melodic.... With that said, of course, I DO understand your reference to mindless music. It's just sometimes I feel that the emphasis on traditional theory is just as much an arbitrary decision as anything else. Perharps just a bitter academic? -Kristin http://www.4-56.com -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 3 lines that said, of course, I DO understand your reference to mindless music. It's

> that said, of course, I DO understand your reference to mindless music. It's > just sometimes I feel that the emphasis on traditional theory is just as much > an arbitrary decision as anything else. Perharps just a bitter academic?

On the other hand, if more modern musicians knew about theory, they might realize the hidden possibilities inherent in music and not focus so much on being 'sound-alikes'. From Ives to Cage to Thaemlitz, music's most successful experimental composers and artists have been steeped in theory, which then gave them a framework to escape from. The problem isn't that laptoppers don't use chords and harmonies and progression in the standard way, it's that they don't realize that there are endless techniques of composition besides 'sounds-good-loop-it' and twiddling faders. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

At 04:20 PM 8/9/2002 -0400, you wrote:

quoted 11 lines that said, of course, I DO understand your reference to mindless music.

> > that said, of course, I DO understand your reference to mindless music. > It's > > just sometimes I feel that the emphasis on traditional theory is just > as much > > an arbitrary decision as anything else. Perharps just a bitter academic? > >On the other hand, if more modern musicians knew about theory, they might >realize the hidden possibilities inherent in music and not focus so much on >being 'sound-alikes'. From Ives to Cage to Thaemlitz, music's most >successful experimental composers and artists have been steeped in theory, >which then gave them a framework to escape from.

It'll never happen in IDM though. Unless some company develops a "music theory" plugin. Far too many modern electronic artists would rather have things automated than have to spend time learning or creating something. derek ------- eggytoast.com ------- with lather thingy --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org