IDM Mailing Archive

on 7/30/02 10:07 AM, ff g at glassmuseum@yahoo.com scrawled:

quoted 4 lines anyone think that noise is the final frontier of

> anyone think that noise is the final frontier of > music? i'm looking way ahead..philisophically > speaking. Just throwing out some discussion- >

If that is true, than the city sounds drifting through, and ambient noises emanating from my apartment are all the music I need this morning. I guess I don't need to figure out what CD to listen to afterall.. ~g np.. rattling venetian blind, rotating ceiling fan, g4 hum, overhead passing jet + #10 highway drone. :P --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

didn't 20th century classical music go through something like this? heavy experimentation with dissonance and what would pass for noise given classical instrumentation? like some of the more heavily abstract idm coming out now, it didn't seem to catch on with anyone outside a small "intellectual elite" ;p my opinion is that the next big revolution in music is going to be propelled by changes in medium. ie, piping "music" directly into your brain, letting you combine aural stimulation with visual, tactile, olfactory, etc. cues. think of buying a cd, slotting it into your "player" and getting out something akin to an acid trip. 22nd century aphex twin remixes will only be for the brave, my friends :) __michal On Tue, Jul 30, 2002 at 10:07:12AM -0700, ff g wrote:

quoted 14 lines anyone think that noise is the final frontier of

> anyone think that noise is the final frontier of > music? i'm looking way ahead..philisophically > speaking. Just throwing out some discussion- > > d > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better > http://health.yahoo.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

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Automatic acid trips based on the music? Sounds not too unlike the Autechre grantz graf video. Its like someone had the acid trip for you and then went back and hand animated the whole thing for you. I'm pretty serious here. -Aaron

quoted 6 lines my opinion is that the next big revolution in music is going to be

> my opinion is that the next big revolution in music is going to be > propelled by changes in medium. ie, piping "music" directly into your > brain, letting you combine aural stimulation with visual, tactile, > olfactory, etc. cues. think of buying a cd, slotting it into your > "player" and getting out something akin to an acid trip. >

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You're about a century behind. On 7/30/02 12:07 PM, "ff g" <glassmuseum@yahoo.com> wrote:

quoted 15 lines anyone think that noise is the final frontier of

> anyone think that noise is the final frontier of > music? i'm looking way ahead..philisophically > speaking. Just throwing out some discussion- > > d > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better > http://health.yahoo.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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nice smart one liner, not like im not aware of the state of music in the past or present, but eventually, much later in our human timeline..even mainstream music may sound something like today's 'noise'... d --- Matthew Ross Davis <regis@sounding.com> wrote:

quoted 18 lines You're about a century behind.

> You're about a century behind. > > On 7/30/02 12:07 PM, "ff g" <glassmuseum@yahoo.com> > wrote: > > > anyone think that noise is the final frontier of > > music? i'm looking way ahead..philisophically > > speaking. Just throwing out some discussion- > > > > d > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better > > http://health.yahoo.com > > > > >

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quoted 8 lines To unsubscribe, e-mail:

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quoted 5 lines To unsubscribe, e-mail:

> To unsubscribe, e-mail: > idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: > idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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Dans un courrier daté du 30/07/02 7:11:51 Paris, Madrid (heure d'été), glassmuseum@yahoo.com a écrit :

quoted 5 lines anyone think that noise is the final frontier of

> anyone think that noise is the final frontier of > music? i'm looking way ahead..philisophically > speaking. Just throwing out some discussion- > > d

can u think of anything else? /yann_g aka no_id --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Try a tad earlier: Luigi Russolo wrote The art of noises in 1913. Read it here: http://www.unknown.nu/futurism/noises.html Then maybe check about 80 years of experimental music from then on that explored "noise". DS _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

woah, that's rad aaron, now i'm really fucking siked to get my hands on that puppy! in terms of new frontier stuff... it's fun to imagine (and i know some experiments are already happening on this frontier) but notes below and above our hearing level... i guess at old MBV shows the crowd claims their mighty sound would make your pants ruffle! take that a couple levels beyond... imagine a silent show that you felt. just tones that affected your body. think of it like a futuristic sort of accupuncture where certain tones could sooth or irritate certain organs. it's like how some electronicisers are now writing their own software, these folks would have to know their anatomy. i think when we start talking about the future of music as having all these other senses involved we're not talking about music anymore, obviously, but multi-media... my vision of art in the future is that you will get a disc (or data, whatever) and go into a virtual environment constructed by the artist that could be... a flat green sphere that shrinks and makes you comfortable, or... you are a refugee that gets shot in the head repeatedly, each time more flowers come out of your brain, or... your body is suddenly a planet, and you stare off into space: you are the earth, and the piece is meant to be experienced in a single, full year visit, you would experience what it's like to be the earth for a year... hope i'm still around to experience all this. fuck, imagine raves in spacestations. i just hope that dont find the infamous 'brown note' anytime soon.

quoted 23 lines From: Aaron Meyers <adm226@nyu.edu>

>From: Aaron Meyers <adm226@nyu.edu> >To: idm@hyperreal.org >Subject: Re: [idm] noise is the frontier? >Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 13:39:26 -0400 > >Automatic acid trips based on the music? Sounds not too unlike the >Autechre grantz graf video. Its like someone had the acid trip for you and >then went back and hand animated the whole thing for you. I'm pretty >serious here. > >-Aaron > >>my opinion is that the next big revolution in music is going to be >>propelled by changes in medium. ie, piping "music" directly into your >>brain, letting you combine aural stimulation with visual, tactile, >>olfactory, etc. cues. think of buying a cd, slotting it into your >>"player" and getting out something akin to an acid trip. >> > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

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I came across this program on the web somewhere not too long ago and it was this Brainwave Generator thing. Anyway, I don't feel like hunting it down and getting specific numbers, but our brains apparently generate different frequencies in different states of awakeness and whatnot. These frequencies, if I remember correctly, are very low... something like in the 20 Hz range. Since no pair of headphones out there is capable of generating those kind of low frequencies, the guys who made the program found a workaround where two separate frequencies are generated, one in each stereo channel and the difference between these two frequencies will be something in the 10-30 Hz range of the different states of the human brain. The point is, by means of their subtractive frequency trick, by subjecting yourself to these frequencies, your brain will float towards them and you will enter the coresponding brain state. Their program has different settings... some for relaxation, some for inducing sleep, some for alertness and creativity. I'll admit, I gave it a shot and I'm not really sure if I felt any closer to falling asleep or whatever. Sham or not, all the theory behind it was damn interesting. Try googling "brainwave generator" and I'm sure it'll come up right quick. Enjoy being a nerd. -Aaron On Tuesday, July 30, 2002, at 02:17 PM, nat hawks wrote:

quoted 63 lines woah, that's rad aaron, now i'm really fucking siked to get my hands on

> woah, that's rad aaron, now i'm really fucking siked to get my hands on > that puppy! > > in terms of new frontier stuff... it's fun to imagine (and i know some > experiments are already happening on this frontier) but notes below and > above our hearing level... i guess at old MBV shows the crowd claims > their mighty sound would make your pants ruffle! take that a couple > levels beyond... > > imagine a silent show that you felt. just tones that affected your > body. think of it like a futuristic sort of accupuncture where certain > tones could sooth or irritate certain organs. it's like how some > electronicisers are now writing their own software, these folks would > have to know their anatomy. > > i think when we start talking about the future of music as having all > these other senses involved we're not talking about music anymore, > obviously, but multi-media... my vision of art in the future is that > you will get a disc (or data, whatever) and go into a virtual > environment constructed by the artist that could be... a flat green > sphere that shrinks and makes you comfortable, or... you are a refugee > that gets shot in the head repeatedly, each time more flowers come out > of your brain, or... your body is suddenly a planet, and you stare off > into space: you are the earth, and the piece is meant to be experienced > in a single, full year visit, you would experience what it's like to be > the earth for a year... hope i'm still around to experience all this. > > fuck, imagine raves in spacestations. > > i just hope that dont find the infamous 'brown note' anytime soon. > > >> From: Aaron Meyers <adm226@nyu.edu> >> To: idm@hyperreal.org >> Subject: Re: [idm] noise is the frontier? >> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 13:39:26 -0400 >> >> Automatic acid trips based on the music? Sounds not too unlike the >> Autechre grantz graf video. Its like someone had the acid trip for >> you and then went back and hand animated the whole thing for you. I'm >> pretty serious here. >> >> -Aaron >> >>> my opinion is that the next big revolution in music is going to be >>> propelled by changes in medium. ie, piping "music" directly into your >>> brain, letting you combine aural stimulation with visual, tactile, >>> olfactory, etc. cues. think of buying a cd, slotting it into your >>> "player" and getting out something akin to an acid trip. >>> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the worldís largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com >

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Brainwave entrainment experiment. Take two sine waves 100hz and 108hz. Pan one hard left the other hard right. In space these waves will cancel eachother out physically with phase cancellation 8 times a second. If you listen to them on headphones with the waves hard panned there is no physical reason for them to cancel out... but your brain creates the beating sound. Brainwaves then have a tendency to entrain to this frequency. 8hz is in the light sleep Theta range. I have found this tone to be helpful for falling asleep. Try it for yourself. Monroe Institute tapes use this principle and the brain machines use it too. Don't try it if you have epilepsy (same with strobe lights) and I would suggest a very low volume for sine waves in headphones because they can cause hearing loss. Here's an interesting page on the Monroe site. I think it has an audio example: http://www.monroeinstitute.org/programs/hemi-sync.html I'm not necessarily endorsing the Monroe Institute but I don think it's quite interesting :-) Noah, www.listenlabs.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Meyers" <adm226@nyu.edu> To: "nat hawks" <natbot@hotmail.com> Cc: <idm@hyperreal.org>; <leo.goldsmith@harpercollins.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [idm] noise is the frontier? I came across this program on the web somewhere not too long ago and it was this Brainwave Generator thing. Anyway, I don't feel like hunting it down and getting specific numbers, but our brains apparently generate different frequencies in different states of awakeness and whatnot. These frequencies, if I remember correctly, are very low... something like in the 20 Hz range. Since no pair of headphones out there is capable of generating those kind of low frequencies, the guys who made the program found a workaround where two separate frequencies are generated, one in each stereo channel and the difference between these two frequencies will be something in the 10-30 Hz range of the different states of the human brain. The point is, by means of their subtractive frequency trick, by subjecting yourself to these frequencies, your brain will float towards them and you will enter the coresponding brain state. Their program has different settings... some for relaxation, some for inducing sleep, some for alertness and creativity. I'll admit, I gave it a shot and I'm not really sure if I felt any closer to falling asleep or whatever. Sham or not, all the theory behind it was damn interesting. Try googling "brainwave generator" and I'm sure it'll come up right quick. Enjoy being a nerd. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

interesting.. my honors thesis was the effect of rhythmic drumming on brain waves. we found that 4hz was the optimal beat to entrain one's brainwaves to, hence the cross-cultural phenomenon of shamanic drumming rituals occuring at 4hz (beats per second). shamans literally "ride" their 4hz drumming into altered states of consciousness. it takes a good 15-20 minutes for brainwaves to converge to the auditory input, which is a long time to consciously listen to a repetitive beat for most people. of course, some people are more subject to the effect then others (hypnotizability scales apply). try it sometime. -j On Tue, 30 Jul 2002, Noah Thorp wrote:

quoted 61 lines Brainwave entrainment experiment.

> Brainwave entrainment experiment. > > Take two sine waves 100hz and 108hz. Pan one hard left the other hard right. > In space these waves will cancel eachother out physically with phase > cancellation 8 times a second. If you listen to them on headphones with the > waves hard panned there is no physical reason for them to cancel out... but > your brain creates the beating sound. Brainwaves then have a tendency to > entrain to this frequency. 8hz is in the light sleep Theta range. I have > found this tone to be helpful for falling asleep. Try it for yourself. > > Monroe Institute tapes use this principle and the brain machines use it too. > Don't try it if you have epilepsy (same with strobe lights) and I would > suggest a very low volume for sine waves in headphones because they can > cause hearing loss. > > Here's an interesting page on the Monroe site. I think it has an audio > example: > http://www.monroeinstitute.org/programs/hemi-sync.html > > I'm not necessarily endorsing the Monroe Institute but I don think it's > quite interesting :-) > > Noah, > www.listenlabs.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Aaron Meyers" <adm226@nyu.edu> > To: "nat hawks" <natbot@hotmail.com> > Cc: <idm@hyperreal.org>; <leo.goldsmith@harpercollins.com> > Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 11:28 AM > Subject: Re: [idm] noise is the frontier? > > > I came across this program on the web somewhere not too long ago and it > was this Brainwave Generator thing. Anyway, I don't feel like hunting > it down and getting specific numbers, but our brains apparently generate > different frequencies in different states of awakeness and whatnot. > These frequencies, if I remember correctly, are very low... something > like in the 20 Hz range. Since no pair of headphones out there is > capable of generating those kind of low frequencies, the guys who made > the program found a workaround where two separate frequencies are > generated, one in each stereo channel and the difference between these > two frequencies will be something in the 10-30 Hz range of the different > states of the human brain. > > The point is, by means of their subtractive frequency trick, by > subjecting yourself to these frequencies, your brain will float towards > them and you will enter the coresponding brain state. Their program has > different settings... some for relaxation, some for inducing sleep, some > for alertness and creativity. > > I'll admit, I gave it a shot and I'm not really sure if I felt any > closer to falling asleep or whatever. Sham or not, all the theory > behind it was damn interesting. Try googling "brainwave generator" and > I'm sure it'll come up right quick. Enjoy being a nerd. > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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quoted 4 lines anyone think that noise is the final frontier of

> anyone think that noise is the final frontier of > music? i'm looking way ahead..philisophically > speaking. Just throwing out some discussion- >

Did you say philosophically speaking? I think the sounds we commonly refer to as "noise" are undifferentiated sounds. In other words we consider those things that we have limited sensitivity to "noise". The transformation from noise to music requires a conscious willingness to adjust perception, or a gradual appreciation created by extended exposure. This conscious differentiation, eventually becomes intuitive. Through this process noise becomes music. Rock and Roll and Hip Hop were just noise to an older generation (not that I want to start a flame ware about how some people on this list hate Rock and Hip Hop :-). IDM can definitely be heard as "just noise" to the uninitiated. However, the transition to differentiating types of static (for instance) and hearing it as music will require more effort. This is because static typically does not contain a harmonic spectrum that is as organized as a sine wave or a guitar string. Cross-culturally harmonic and melodic musical materials have been derived from the Harmonic series. The sound of the harmonic series can be heard in the high notes (overtones) of digeradoos, Tuvan throat singing, and jaw harps. The vast majority of musical scales in the world were developed using these ubiquitous harmonic materials. Sounds that do not contain a clear harmonic series are typically thought of as "Percussion" and have a more complex waveform. The 20th century has seen the introduction of larger quantities of non-harmonic sounds in to the environment and our music reflects it. We are gaining familiarity with these sounds through constant exposure. In some ways we are living in the "Age of Percussion". One possible reason that we may gravitate towards making "noise music" is that natural sounds that had more harmonic content are no longer predominant. I think that non-harmonic sounds will be integrated in to music as the cityscape expands. It may remain this way until the sonic landscape changes once again to contain more harmonic sound. However, because of the difficulty of hearing non-harmonic sound as "music" these materials will continue to be integrated with harmonic materials... because that is what the physiology of the ear naturally gravitates toward. It could also be said that with the advent of computer music we will be able to use justly tuned intervals (whole number ratio harmonics) to create complex music that were not possible because of the previous limitations of our physical instruments. Both directions are interesting.... When predicting "the music of the future" it the question is not what music will come to be, but who and how many will be listening to it? Right now the music of the future appears to be some combination of Dave Mathews, Nelly, and Eminem... at least in terms of who and how many. As Donna pointed out, Noise music is the music of the past (circa 1913). It just happens to be iterating through culture more heavily right now. I actually do not expect there to be a large cultural shift to listening to exclusively non-harmonic tones because of the esoteric dedication to hearing differently that it would require. The harmonic series is intuitive heard. Noise music requires learning and effort. If you want to you can hear your current environment as music, but you will have to want to and learn how. I don't expect a large segment of the population to devote effort to this... I do expect a subset of the electronic community to iterating and evolving this concept for a subset of the future. Chrz, Noah www.listenlabs.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org