IDM Mailing Archive

It's bad enough the Wire making up sub-sub-genres but Wired as well. Jeesh. Italic sound anyone? n.p. Murcof - Martes. Lukas Bergstrom wrote:

quoted 14 lines Article in Wired on "lowercase sound".

>Article in Wired on "lowercase sound". > >"'Lowercase sound' is the name given to a loose movement in electronic >music that emphasizes very quiet sounds and the long, empty silences >between them." > >http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,52397,00.html > >The only name I recognized from the article was Taylor Dupree. Hmm. > >Lukas > > >

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I GUESS THAT MEANS KID606 AND VENETIAN SNARES ARE DOING ALL-CAPS BOLD MUSIC? DEREK At 05:26 PM 5/29/2002 +0100, you wrote:

quoted 16 lines It's bad enough the Wire making up sub-sub-genres but Wired as well.

>It's bad enough the Wire making up sub-sub-genres but Wired as well. >Jeesh. Italic sound anyone? > >n.p. Murcof - Martes. > >Lukas Bergstrom wrote: > >>Article in Wired on "lowercase sound". >> >>"'Lowercase sound' is the name given to a loose movement in electronic >>music that emphasizes very quiet sounds and the long, empty silences >>between them." >> >>http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,52397,00.html >> >>The only name I recognized from the article was Taylor Dupree. Hmm.

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quoted 2 lines It's bad enough the Wire making up sub-sub-genres but Wired as well.

> It's bad enough the Wire making up sub-sub-genres but Wired as well. > Jeesh. Italic sound anyone?

Huh? Wired didn't make this up monicker. Steve Roden did. Josh Russell ran with it to get the lowercase list going, and as the article says, he put out a comp with that organizing principal. There are plenty of people I've talked to and had play at my house that identify themselves as 'lowercase.' In any case it's not a sub-genre of anything I can think of, certainly not 'IDM'. Unless 'laptop music' is a subgenre, which seems misguided since it's emphasizing the tool, not the philosophy, sound, groove, attitude, evolution, audience, etc. The article over-emphasizes the powerbook -- Josh himself doesn't use one. And I wonder how Digi got that plug, I don't know many people using it at all to make this sort of work (though Steve Roden did start working in it recently...). best aaron ghede@well.com http://www.quietamerican.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 2 lines It's bad enough the Wire making up sub-sub-genres but Wired as well.

>>It's bad enough the Wire making up sub-sub-genres but Wired as well. >>Jeesh. Italic sound anyone?

There is an Italic Records, actually. Decidedly not lowercase/microsound. May digital disco save the day! :-)

quoted 9 lines Article in Wired on "lowercase sound".

>>>Article in Wired on "lowercase sound". >>> >>>"'Lowercase sound' is the name given to a loose movement in electronic >>>music that emphasizes very quiet sounds and the long, empty silences >>>between them." >>> >>>http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,52397,00.html >>> >>>The only name I recognized from the article was Taylor Dupree. Hmm.

There's inevitably a big debate every few weeks about "lowercase" vs. "microsound" vs. "microscopic" etc on the microsound list, also hosted through hyperreal. In fact many of those names appearing in the Wired article are frequent (some infrequent) list-posters. Taylor Deupree, Stephan Mathieu, Steve Roden, Akira Rabelais, Bernhard Guenter..... these are all fairly well known figures within the genre. All of them produce work that's worth looking into if the genre/movement/whateveryouwanttocallit interests you. The Wired article only skims the sound/genre, although I personally think it's good to see a more mainstream publication (i.e., not The Wire) devoting some space to what is still a fairly niche and/or relatively obscure sound. -matt _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

A quieter aesthetic is *emerging*? what the hell is that? That article is more about how new electronica artists use Macs (surprise surprise, tell us something we don't know) than the actual 'sub-genre' of lowercase sound - either the author didn't do the foot work, or didn't feel like the last half of the 20th century has anything to do with electronica - more than likely the assignment was to do a 'cutting edge piece on how the mac is used in new music' - just look at the collection of links they have surrounding the article. Of course, nevermind that experimental musicians like John Cage, Pauline Oliveros (who has a retrospective gala in SF this weekend), Morton Feldman, John Zorn, Alvin Lucier, Dexter Gordon, David Tudor, K. Stockhausen, Ryoji Ikeda, literally TONS of Chicago folks like Amnon Wolman, Fred L. Holmes, Michael Zerang, Town & Country, hell even O'Rourke if he would admit it... i won't go on for fear that the mailhost for hyperreal might choke on so large an email. lowercase sound has been going on for over half a century, is a very vibrant form of music, and it is most certainly not a phenomenon of an outgrowth from electronic dance music. They probably only left out Achim Wollscheid because he doesn't use a Mac. Don't get me wrong, this isn't to disparage the folks the article does touch on, they all do fantastic work (though where is Kit Clayton? Sutekh? Diego Cortez? Stilluppsteypa, FENNESZ for crying out loud... someone joked about Kid606, but some of what he's done for Mille Plateaux is firmly lowercase-influenced); that article is just horribly shallow and uninformed, I guess that's what we can expect from Wired. m http://craque.net --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Not again... Now I am as open-minded as the next guy when it comes to textured, experimental electronic music, ambient, IDM, micro- whatever-the-hell- you-wanna-call-it, but there comes a point in time when enough is enough. I didn't have the pleasure of hearing WIRED's sound bites, but I am familiar enough with the "genre" to know when noise is just noise. It kind of reminds me of going to an art gallery and seeing a canvas painted entirely red...nothing else, just red paint. Ridiculous. Chalk it up to a lack of understanding on my part if you will, but I cease to see the novelty or artistic merit in such things. JS

quoted 50 lines From: "M Mercer" <vletrmx@hotmail.com>

>From: "M Mercer" <vletrmx@hotmail.com> >To: idm@hyperreal.org >Subject: Re: [idm] lowercase >Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 15:09:08 -0400 > > >>>It's bad enough the Wire making up sub-sub-genres but Wired as well. >>>Jeesh. Italic sound anyone? > >There is an Italic Records, actually. Decidedly not lowercase/microsound. >May digital disco save the day! :-) > >>>>Article in Wired on "lowercase sound". >>>> >>>>"'Lowercase sound' is the name given to a loose movement in electronic >>>>music that emphasizes very quiet sounds and the long, empty silences >>>>between them." >>>> >>>>http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,52397,00.html >>>> >>>>The only name I recognized from the article was Taylor Dupree. Hmm. > >There's inevitably a big debate every few weeks about "lowercase" vs. >"microsound" vs. "microscopic" etc on the microsound list, also hosted >through hyperreal. In fact many of those names appearing in the Wired >article are frequent (some infrequent) list-posters. Taylor Deupree, >Stephan >Mathieu, Steve Roden, Akira Rabelais, Bernhard Guenter..... these are all >fairly well known figures within the genre. All of them produce work that's >worth looking into if the genre/movement/whateveryouwanttocallit interests >you. > >The Wired article only skims the sound/genre, although I personally think >it's good to see a more mainstream publication (i.e., not The Wire) >devoting >some space to what is still a fairly niche and/or relatively obscure sound. > > >-matt > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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on 5/29/02 12:19 PM, Jason Stickel at j_stickel_otfp@hotmail.com scrawled:

quoted 13 lines Not again...

> Not again... > > Now I am as open-minded as the next guy when it comes to textured, > experimental electronic music, ambient, IDM, micro- whatever-the-hell- > you-wanna-call-it, but there comes a point in time when enough is enough. I > didn't have the pleasure of hearing WIRED's sound bites, but I am familiar > enough with the "genre" to know when noise is just noise. It kind of > reminds me of going to an art gallery and seeing a canvas painted entirely > red...nothing else, just red paint. Ridiculous. > > Chalk it up to a lack of understanding on my part if you will, but I cease > to see the novelty or artistic merit in such things. >

Actually, I think chalking it up to an abundance of ignorance would be a more accurate statement. ~g -- Greg Smith http://www.laiad.com "There is no such thing as a perfectly accurate clock. The nearest you can get is one that has stopped. Although you never know when, it is absolutely accurate twice a day." - JG Ballard/Chronopolis --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I would call lowercase sound "Experimental" That is what it records. Recently I delved into lowercase to experience the hype. A great deal of it (Bernhard Gunter) is so minimal that it has no impact on me. But, there is another part of lowercase which is more "the space between the notes" kind of thinking. A great deal of effort has gone into its production and you can hear it. But, it is definitely a hard sell to most. I think lowercase, as a grownn-up, is "drone". Drone music has much more tooth. (Tom Koner, Noisegate, Ora and the famous Gas) Cheers --- Jason Stickel <j_stickel_otfp@hotmail.com> wrote:

quoted 78 lines Not again...

> Not again... > > Now I am as open-minded as the next guy when it > comes to textured, > experimental electronic music, ambient, IDM, micro- > whatever-the-hell- > you-wanna-call-it, but there comes a point in time > when enough is enough. I > didn't have the pleasure of hearing WIRED's sound > bites, but I am familiar > enough with the "genre" to know when noise is just > noise. It kind of > reminds me of going to an art gallery and seeing a > canvas painted entirely > red...nothing else, just red paint. Ridiculous. > > Chalk it up to a lack of understanding on my part if > you will, but I cease > to see the novelty or artistic merit in such things. > > JS > > > >From: "M Mercer" <vletrmx@hotmail.com> > >To: idm@hyperreal.org > >Subject: Re: [idm] lowercase > >Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 15:09:08 -0400 > > > > > >>>It's bad enough the Wire making up sub-sub-genres > but Wired as well. > >>>Jeesh. Italic sound anyone? > > > >There is an Italic Records, actually. Decidedly not > lowercase/microsound. > >May digital disco save the day! :-) > > > >>>>Article in Wired on "lowercase sound". > >>>> > >>>>"'Lowercase sound' is the name given to a loose > movement in electronic > >>>>music that emphasizes very quiet sounds and the > long, empty silences > >>>>between them." > >>>> > >>>>http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,52397,00.html > >>>> > >>>>The only name I recognized from the article was > Taylor Dupree. Hmm. > > > >There's inevitably a big debate every few weeks > about "lowercase" vs. > >"microsound" vs. "microscopic" etc on the > microsound list, also hosted > >through hyperreal. In fact many of those names > appearing in the Wired > >article are frequent (some infrequent) > list-posters. Taylor Deupree, > >Stephan > >Mathieu, Steve Roden, Akira Rabelais, Bernhard > Guenter..... these are all > >fairly well known figures within the genre. All of > them produce work that's > >worth looking into if the > genre/movement/whateveryouwanttocallit interests > >you. > > > >The Wired article only skims the sound/genre, > although I personally think > >it's good to see a more mainstream publication > (i.e., not The Wire) > >devoting > >some space to what is still a fairly niche and/or > relatively obscure sound. > > > > > >-matt

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actually taylor dupree's stuff can get rather funky. it sounds like noise if youre looking for something...but if you just sit back and relax it sort of has this grooviness to it. his is the only stuff in that genre that ive found i really like so far. it just sort of grows out of nowhere On Wed, 29 May 2002, Jason Stickel wrote:

quoted 77 lines Not again...

> Not again... > > Now I am as open-minded as the next guy when it comes to textured, > experimental electronic music, ambient, IDM, micro- whatever-the-hell- > you-wanna-call-it, but there comes a point in time when enough is enough. I > didn't have the pleasure of hearing WIRED's sound bites, but I am familiar > enough with the "genre" to know when noise is just noise. It kind of > reminds me of going to an art gallery and seeing a canvas painted entirely > red...nothing else, just red paint. Ridiculous. > > Chalk it up to a lack of understanding on my part if you will, but I cease > to see the novelty or artistic merit in such things. > > JS > > > >From: "M Mercer" <vletrmx@hotmail.com> > >To: idm@hyperreal.org > >Subject: Re: [idm] lowercase > >Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 15:09:08 -0400 > > > > > >>>It's bad enough the Wire making up sub-sub-genres but Wired as well. > >>>Jeesh. Italic sound anyone? > > > >There is an Italic Records, actually. Decidedly not lowercase/microsound. > >May digital disco save the day! :-) > > > >>>>Article in Wired on "lowercase sound". > >>>> > >>>>"'Lowercase sound' is the name given to a loose movement in electronic > >>>>music that emphasizes very quiet sounds and the long, empty silences > >>>>between them." > >>>> > >>>>http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,52397,00.html > >>>> > >>>>The only name I recognized from the article was Taylor Dupree. Hmm. > > > >There's inevitably a big debate every few weeks about "lowercase" vs. > >"microsound" vs. "microscopic" etc on the microsound list, also hosted > >through hyperreal. In fact many of those names appearing in the Wired > >article are frequent (some infrequent) list-posters. Taylor Deupree, > >Stephan > >Mathieu, Steve Roden, Akira Rabelais, Bernhard Guenter..... these are all > >fairly well known figures within the genre. All of them produce work that's > >worth looking into if the genre/movement/whateveryouwanttocallit interests > >you. > > > >The Wired article only skims the sound/genre, although I personally think > >it's good to see a more mainstream publication (i.e., not The Wire) > >devoting > >some space to what is still a fairly niche and/or relatively obscure sound. > > > > > >-matt > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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quoted 6 lines I GUESS THAT MEANS KID606 AND VENETIAN SNARES ARE DOING

> > I GUESS THAT MEANS KID606 AND VENETIAN SNARES ARE DOING > ALL-CAPS BOLD MUSIC? > > DEREK >

I stopped reading after "...based on the magnification of minute sounds through a computer, typically a Macintosh" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Some of the stuff I have heard on recent comps. and elsewhere is beyond minimal though. What I am referring to is the thought that barely decipherable noise can be interpreted as composition. It's like recording white noise for an hour and calling it a track. Old Plastikman stuff, for example, has texture and the space between bursts of sound are then given meaning to some extent, but some (not all) of what is being passed off as music these days is ridiculous. If I can't tell the difference between someone who can fiddle around on their new MAC for fifteen minutes and someone who has been recording the same stuff for 10 years then it ceases to maintain any artistic merit or clarity - at least for me. I'd like to hear what Brian Eno has to say about all this mess... JS

quoted 113 lines From: wownflutter <wownflutter@yahoo.com>

>From: wownflutter <wownflutter@yahoo.com> >To: Jason Stickel <j_stickel_otfp@hotmail.com>, vletrmx@hotmail.com, >idm@hyperreal.org >Subject: Re: [idm] lowercase >Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 12:45:44 -0700 (PDT) > >I would call lowercase sound "Experimental" >That is what it records. > >Recently I delved into lowercase to experience the >hype. >A great deal of it (Bernhard Gunter) is so minimal >that it has no impact on me. > >But, there is another part of lowercase which is more >"the space between the notes" kind of thinking. >A great deal of effort has gone into its production >and you can hear it. > >But, it is definitely a hard sell to most. > >I think lowercase, as a grownn-up, is "drone". >Drone music has much more tooth. >(Tom Koner, Noisegate, Ora and the famous Gas) > >Cheers > > >--- Jason Stickel <j_stickel_otfp@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Not again... > > > > Now I am as open-minded as the next guy when it > > comes to textured, > > experimental electronic music, ambient, IDM, micro- > > whatever-the-hell- > > you-wanna-call-it, but there comes a point in time > > when enough is enough. I > > didn't have the pleasure of hearing WIRED's sound > > bites, but I am familiar > > enough with the "genre" to know when noise is just > > noise. It kind of > > reminds me of going to an art gallery and seeing a > > canvas painted entirely > > red...nothing else, just red paint. Ridiculous. > > > > Chalk it up to a lack of understanding on my part if > > you will, but I cease > > to see the novelty or artistic merit in such things. > > > > JS > > > > > > >From: "M Mercer" <vletrmx@hotmail.com> > > >To: idm@hyperreal.org > > >Subject: Re: [idm] lowercase > > >Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 15:09:08 -0400 > > > > > > > > >>>It's bad enough the Wire making up sub-sub-genres > > but Wired as well. > > >>>Jeesh. Italic sound anyone? > > > > > >There is an Italic Records, actually. Decidedly not > > lowercase/microsound. > > >May digital disco save the day! :-) > > > > > >>>>Article in Wired on "lowercase sound". > > >>>> > > >>>>"'Lowercase sound' is the name given to a loose > > movement in electronic > > >>>>music that emphasizes very quiet sounds and the > > long, empty silences > > >>>>between them." > > >>>> > > > >>>>http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,52397,00.html > > >>>> > > >>>>The only name I recognized from the article was > > Taylor Dupree. Hmm. > > > > > >There's inevitably a big debate every few weeks > > about "lowercase" vs. > > >"microsound" vs. "microscopic" etc on the > > microsound list, also hosted > > >through hyperreal. In fact many of those names > > appearing in the Wired > > >article are frequent (some infrequent) > > list-posters. Taylor Deupree, > > >Stephan > > >Mathieu, Steve Roden, Akira Rabelais, Bernhard > > Guenter..... these are all > > >fairly well known figures within the genre. All of > > them produce work that's > > >worth looking into if the > > genre/movement/whateveryouwanttocallit interests > > >you. > > > > > >The Wired article only skims the sound/genre, > > although I personally think > > >it's good to see a more mainstream publication > > (i.e., not The Wire) > > >devoting > > >some space to what is still a fairly niche and/or > > relatively obscure sound. > > > > > > > > >-matt > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup >http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

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Greg, Thanks for the personal attack on my credibility and intelligence, but I was simply making a statement of opinion. One which, I might add, you are free to disagree with. However, I am curious as to the thoughts of others and thought I would share my own. I would love to be swayed or directed towards something more tangible in an effort to perhaps expand my musical boundaries, but your feeble potshots are neither helpful nor appreciated. Mama always said if you ain't got nothin' nice to say... Thanks Greg, JS

quoted 46 lines From: Greg Smith <purgasmith@earthlink.net>

>From: Greg Smith <purgasmith@earthlink.net> >To: <idm@hyperreal.org> >Subject: Re: [idm] lowercase >Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 12:45:08 -0700 > >on 5/29/02 12:19 PM, Jason Stickel at j_stickel_otfp@hotmail.com scrawled: > > > Not again... > > > > Now I am as open-minded as the next guy when it comes to textured, > > experimental electronic music, ambient, IDM, micro- whatever-the-hell- > > you-wanna-call-it, but there comes a point in time when enough is >enough. I > > didn't have the pleasure of hearing WIRED's sound bites, but I am >familiar > > enough with the "genre" to know when noise is just noise. It kind of > > reminds me of going to an art gallery and seeing a canvas painted >entirely > > red...nothing else, just red paint. Ridiculous. > > > > Chalk it up to a lack of understanding on my part if you will, but I >cease > > to see the novelty or artistic merit in such things. > > >Actually, I think chalking it up to an abundance of ignorance would be a >more accurate statement. > > >~g > > > > >-- >Greg Smith >http://www.laiad.com >"There is no such thing as a perfectly accurate clock. The nearest you can >get is one that has stopped. Although you never know when, it is >absolutely >accurate twice a day." - JG Ballard/Chronopolis > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

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on 5/29/02 1:07 PM, Jason Stickel at j_stickel_otfp@hotmail.com scrawled:

quoted 10 lines Greg,

> Greg, > > Thanks for the personal attack on my credibility and intelligence, but I was > simply making a statement of opinion. One which, I might add, you are free > to disagree with. However, I am curious as to the thoughts of others and > thought I would share my own. I would love to be swayed or directed towards > something more tangible in an effort to perhaps expand my musical > boundaries, but your feeble potshots are neither helpful nor appreciated. > Mama always said if you ain't got nothin' nice to say... >

If you can tell me the difference between music and noise I'll tell you the difference between your saying that you lack understanding and my calling your message ignorant. At least point out some specific artists that you think suck! Maybe even provide us with some slander directed towards speciifc tracks or albums that are the aural equivalent of that (ridiculous) red painting you refered to in your message. Examine the painting closely before you comment this time and let us know why it sucks. Who knows, you may just find some hidden texture or redeeming quality upon closer inspection. ~g -- Greg Smith http://www.laiad.com "There is no such thing as a perfectly accurate clock. The nearest you can get is one that has stopped. Although you never know when, it is absolutely accurate twice a day." - JG Ballard/Chronopolis --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 4 lines In any case it's not a sub-genre of anything I can think of, certainly not

>In any case it's not a sub-genre of anything I can think of, certainly not >'IDM'. Unless 'laptop music' is a subgenre, which seems misguided since >it's emphasizing the tool, not the philosophy, sound, groove, attitude, >evolution, audience, etc.

I think the categories might go something like this, but I'm sure this is not how teh artists would liek to consider it... Avant guarde> Experimental> Exp. Electronics>Deep Listening>electro-acoustics>lowercase/minimalist noise or it might really be: Avant guarde> Experimental> Exp. Electronics>House music>micro House>lowercase Either way, it does fit into a historical heirchy. Just look at Cage's ultimately "lowercase" performance. Donna S. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Jesus, let's move on. I said nothing slanderous and last I checked we are all entitled to our own opinions. I stated mine and said I wanted to hear the views and recommendations of others. Instead of offering insight you choose to further degrade me for having an opinion opposite of your own. I refuse to get into some stupid e-mail battle because you dislike my opinion. If you have no suggestions fine, but attacking my character and knowledge is pointless. Let's quit wasting the time of other list members and move on. On a lighter note, if anyone has some examples or recommendations of quality lowercase fare please respond off-list. I am open-minded, but my initial opinions have not exactly been the best. Thanks, JS

quoted 56 lines From: Greg Smith <purgasmith@earthlink.net>

>From: Greg Smith <purgasmith@earthlink.net> >To: <idm@hyperreal.org> >Subject: Re: [idm] lowercase >Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 15:16:43 -0700 > >on 5/29/02 1:07 PM, Jason Stickel at j_stickel_otfp@hotmail.com scrawled: > > > Greg, > > > > Thanks for the personal attack on my credibility and intelligence, but I >was > > simply making a statement of opinion. One which, I might add, you are >free > > to disagree with. However, I am curious as to the thoughts of others >and > > thought I would share my own. I would love to be swayed or directed >towards > > something more tangible in an effort to perhaps expand my musical > > boundaries, but your feeble potshots are neither helpful nor >appreciated. > > Mama always said if you ain't got nothin' nice to say... > > >If you can tell me the difference between music and noise I'll tell you the >difference between your saying that you lack understanding and my calling >your message ignorant. > >At least point out some specific artists that you think suck! Maybe even >provide us with some slander directed towards speciifc tracks or albums >that >are the aural equivalent of that (ridiculous) red painting you refered to >in >your message. Examine the painting closely before you comment this time >and >let us know why it sucks. Who knows, you may just find some hidden texture >or redeeming quality upon closer inspection. > >~g > > > > >-- >Greg Smith >http://www.laiad.com >"There is no such thing as a perfectly accurate clock. The nearest you can >get is one that has stopped. Although you never know when, it is >absolutely >accurate twice a day." - JG Ballard/Chronopolis > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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Regarding that lowercase music article in Wired - a friend of mine on another mailing list who isn't really into much electronic music at all read it and said that the whole genre sounded like a joke to him. He followed with this comment:

quoted 3 lines I've come up with a method of making lowercase music. It involves pissing

>I've come up with a method of making lowercase music. It involves pissing >on CDRW discs, where the uric acid of the piss encodes music on the disc. >Available in a plastic bag.

The funniest thing is, I wouldn't be surprised if someone actually tried this... :) Greg :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Greg Clow ::: greg@stainedproductions.com ::::::::: concert & event promotions ::: http://www.stainedproductions.com :::::: electronic music radio & reviews ::: http://www.feedbackmonitor.com ::: electronic/experimental record label ::: http://www.pieheadrecords.com ::::::::: 158 Close Ave. 2nd Floor ::: Toronto, Ontario M6K 2V5 ::: Canada --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

THOSE are the types of artists I was initially referring to. I bet Warhol's piss art would go well with that idea:-P JS

quoted 34 lines From: Greg Clow <greg@stainedproductions.com>

>From: Greg Clow <greg@stainedproductions.com> >To: idm@hyperreal.org >Subject: [idm] lowercase >Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 21:46:46 -0400 > > >Regarding that lowercase music article in Wired - a friend of mine on >another mailing list who isn't really into much electronic music at all >read it and said that the whole genre sounded like a joke to him. He >followed with this comment: > >>I've come up with a method of making lowercase music. It involves pissing >>on CDRW discs, where the uric acid of the piss encodes music on the disc. >>Available in a plastic bag. > >The funniest thing is, I wouldn't be surprised if someone actually tried >this... :) > > >Greg > > > >:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Greg Clow ::: greg@stainedproductions.com >::::::::: concert & event promotions ::: http://www.stainedproductions.com >:::::: electronic music radio & reviews ::: http://www.feedbackmonitor.com >::: electronic/experimental record label ::: http://www.pieheadrecords.com >::::::::: 158 Close Ave. 2nd Floor ::: Toronto, Ontario M6K 2V5 ::: Canada > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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Interesting. It was Mark Spybey of Dead Voices on Air that used real urine, his own, to stain artwork of a cd of his. Obviously music, art and urine are close bedfellows. Um, got to go...nature calls! ;-P --- Jason Stickel <j_stickel_otfp@hotmail.com> wrote:

quoted 35 lines THOSE are the types of artists I was initially

> > THOSE are the types of artists I was initially > referring to. I bet Warhol's > piss art would go well with that idea:-P > > JS > > >From: Greg Clow <greg@stainedproductions.com> > >To: idm@hyperreal.org > >Subject: [idm] lowercase > >Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 21:46:46 -0400 > > > > > >Regarding that lowercase music article in Wired - a > friend of mine on > >another mailing list who isn't really into much > electronic music at all > >read it and said that the whole genre sounded like > a joke to him. He > >followed with this comment: > > > >>I've come up with a method of making lowercase > music. It involves pissing > >>on CDRW discs, where the uric acid of the piss > encodes music on the disc. > >>Available in a plastic bag. > > > >The funniest thing is, I wouldn't be surprised if > someone actually tried > >this... :) > > > > > >Greg > > > >

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Hey, this is turning into a revolution, it's even got mentioned on slashdot! http://slashdot.org/articles/02/05/30/0235241.shtml?tid=141 Some of the comments are pretty funny. Particularly: The top ten (11 if you count #5) sounds I would like to hear relating to lowercase music is.... 11. The sound of Spiders walking on a hardwood floor. 10. The sound of my cablemodem reving up when I turn on KAZAA. 9. The sound of 'The Sound of Music' in a dvdplayer with the inputs off. 8. The sound of the electric meter while cracking rc/5's 7. The sound of my moniter while listening to winamp, and watching various visualizations. 6. The sound of the first few molecules in a fire oxidizing. 5. The sound of a mouse farting. 4. The sound of an acid eating away a substance. 3. The sound of my boss increasing my pay. 2. The sound of a lightsaber in standby. 1. The sound of a router whilst being slashdoted. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On 30 May 2002 at 13:45, Glenn McClements wrote:

quoted 2 lines 2. The sound of a lightsaber in standby.

> > 2. The sound of a lightsaber in standby.

By far the best. And also : the sound of me looking for 'mislaid' CD's somewhere in the stacks around the room... I * --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

At 06:52 PM 5/30/2002 +0200, Irene McC wrote:

quoted 8 lines On 30 May 2002 at 13:45, Glenn McClements wrote:

>On 30 May 2002 at 13:45, Glenn McClements wrote: > > > > 2. The sound of a lightsaber in standby. > >By far the best. > >And also : the sound of me looking for 'mislaid' CD's somewhere in >the stacks around the room...

hehe I personally think the problem with much of the "complaints" against whatever this genre is called is that people who simply hear about it will naturally draw the most extreme conclusions. It's similar to more experimental forms of Jazz, Painting, Film-making, etc. People unfamiliar with the genre will here "quiet, subtle sounds" or "splatters of paint" and assume it was just done randomly, with no direction, and that "anyone can do it." Of course, my rebuttal is "if you think it's so easy and base, why aren't you doing it better?" derek ------- eggytoast.com ------- with lather thingy --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 1 line I've come up with a method of making lowercase music. It

> >I've come up with a method of making lowercase music. It

involves pissing

quoted 1 line on CDRW discs, where the uric acid of the piss encodes

> >on CDRW discs, where the uric acid of the piss encodes

music on the disc.

quoted 3 lines Available in a plastic bag.

> >Available in a plastic bag. > > The funniest thing is, I wouldn't be surprised if someone

actually tried

quoted 1 line this... :)

> this... :)

Yeah, but the thing about this kind of art is that it IS interesting the first time its done, hence the legitimacy of many minimal art pieces/sound styles. However it is almost impossible to make people seriously listen to experimental stuff unless you already have a reputation for ordinary stuff; you need artistic credibility before you can ruin it. What causes a problem is when everyone else hears about it and decides that "this sounds easy, I'll have a go" hence the formation of entire genres where a single artist was enough, leading to saturation with poor quality unoriginal stuff. Usually there are two or three main artists and a sea of imitators, who, although capable of the odd piece that is interesting, churn out bland imitations of the form that they study. my opinions, obviously, open to scrutiny. georgewilliamson --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Thursday, May 30, 2002, at 09:05 AM, George Williamson wrote:

quoted 30 lines I've come up with a method of making lowercase music. It

>>> I've come up with a method of making lowercase music. It > involves pissing >>> on CDRW discs, where the uric acid of the piss encodes > music on the disc. >>> Available in a plastic bag. >> >> The funniest thing is, I wouldn't be surprised if someone > actually tried >> this... :) > > Yeah, but the thing about this kind of art is that it IS > interesting the first time its done, hence the legitimacy of > many minimal art pieces/sound styles. However it is almost > impossible to make people seriously listen to experimental > stuff unless you already have a reputation for ordinary > stuff; you need artistic credibility before you can ruin it. > > What causes a problem is when everyone else hears about it > and decides that "this sounds easy, I'll have a go" hence > the formation of entire genres where a single artist was > enough, leading to saturation with poor quality unoriginal > stuff. Usually there are two or three main artists and a sea > of imitators, who, although capable of the odd piece that is > interesting, churn out bland imitations of the form that > they study. > > my opinions, obviously, open to scrutiny. > > georgewilliamson >

If anyone is looking at something more interesting / accessible in the microsound/glitch/lowercase genre, I'd suggest the 0/r project on Taylor Deupree's 12k label (www.12k.com). It's a collaborative project between *0 (Nosei Sakata) and Richard Chartier. There are two discs out so far : a self-titled one (12k1006) and Varied (12k1018) which just came out. I tried getting into the whole microsound thing a while ago and this was one of the few things I found even remotely enjoyable. You don't need headphones to listen to 0/r, which is a nice switch. Chris --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 1 line Of course, my rebuttal is "if you think it's so easy and base, why aren't

>>Of course, my rebuttal is "if you think it's so easy and base, why aren't

you doing it better?" .....and of course, just like walking or talking or any other learned behavior, one could work hard at it, and achieve making these at random, non-stylistic sounds..... This "genre" aint all that!.......Why, do I say it, cuz many of the numb-skulls took off on the sound without ever getting the basics--....(sorta like teaching a child Vector Calculus without having taught him/her simple addition and subtraction).....:D --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 9 lines This "genre" aint all that!.......Why, do I say it, cuz many of the

> > This "genre" aint all that!.......Why, do I say it, cuz many of the > numb-skulls took > off on the sound without ever getting the basics--....(sorta > like teaching a > child > Vector Calculus without having taught him/her simple addition and > subtraction).....:D >

Now, now. We all know that you can't "teach" Art, right? --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Apparently not ALL of us know that, as is witnessed by 80% of the sounds out there (my personal opinion....dont beat me up for it)... Back to work I go... NP) Modaji, Into Something....... Omar Hackett IUPUI University Library 755 W. Michigan Street, Rm: 1112 Indianapolis, IN 46202 317-278-2278 317-278-2300 (Fax) -----Original Message----- From: Reading, John [mailto:john.reading@us.didata.com] Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 12:10 PM To: idm@hyperreal.org Subject: RE: [idm] lowercase

quoted 9 lines This "genre" aint all that!.......Why, do I say it, cuz many of the

> > This "genre" aint all that!.......Why, do I say it, cuz many of the > numb-skulls took > off on the sound without ever getting the basics--....(sorta > like teaching a > child > Vector Calculus without having taught him/her simple addition and > subtraction).....:D >

Now, now. We all know that you can't "teach" Art, right? --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Hi! I´m new in this list. My name is Anahy and I live in Brazil. This "piss" subject reminded me of Golden Shower, a project here in Brazil. The site is www.goldenshower.gs sorry about my english. *;) Anahy Metz www.mp3.com/gemina

quoted 43 lines ---------- Mensagem original -----------

> ---------- Mensagem original ----------- > > De : Christopher Dilkus <cpdilkus@snip.net> > Para : "George Williamson" <georgewilliamson@btinternet.com> > Cc : <idm@hyperreal.org> > Data : Fri, 31 May 2002 08:07:14 -0400 > Assunto : Re: [idm] lowercase > > > On Thursday, May 30, 2002, at 09:05 AM, George Williamson wrote: > > >>> I've come up with a method of making lowercase music. It > > involves pissing > >>> on CDRW discs, where the uric acid of the piss encodes > > music on the disc. > >>> Available in a plastic bag. > >> > >> The funniest thing is, I wouldn't be surprised if someone > > actually tried > >> this... :) > > > > Yeah, but the thing about this kind of art is that it IS > > interesting the first time its done, hence the legitimacy of > > many minimal art pieces/sound styles. However it is almost > > impossible to make people seriously listen to experimental > > stuff unless you already have a reputation for ordinary > > stuff; you need artistic credibility before you can ruin it. > > > > What causes a problem is when everyone else hears about it > > and decides that "this sounds easy, I'll have a go" hence > > the formation of entire genres where a single artist was > > enough, leading to saturation with poor quality unoriginal > > stuff. Usually there are two or three main artists and a sea > > of imitators, who, although capable of the odd piece that is > > interesting, churn out bland imitations of the form that > > they study. > > > > my opinions, obviously, open to scrutiny. > > > > georgewilliamson > > > > If anyone is looking at something more interesting / accessible in t

he

quoted 1 line microsound/glitch/lowercase genre, I'd suggest the 0/r project on Ta

> microsound/glitch/lowercase genre, I'd suggest the 0/r project on Ta

ylor

quoted 1 line Deupree's 12k label (www.12k.com). It's a collaborative project betw

> Deupree's 12k label (www.12k.com). It's a collaborative project betw

een

quoted 1 line *0 (Nosei Sakata) and Richard Chartier. There are two discs out so f

> *0 (Nosei Sakata) and Richard Chartier. There are two discs out so f

ar :

quoted 1 line a self-

> a self-

titled one (12k1006) and Varied (12k1018) which just came out.

quoted 2 lines I tried getting into the whole microsound thing a while ago and this

> > I tried getting into the whole microsound thing a while ago and this

was

quoted 1 line one of the few things I found even remotely enjoyable. You don't nee

> one of the few things I found even remotely enjoyable. You don't nee

d

quoted 6 lines headphones to listen to 0/r, which is a nice switch.

> headphones to listen to 0/r, which is a nice switch. > > Chris > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------

-

quoted 5 lines To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org

> To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > >

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quoted 3 lines This "piss" subject reminded me of Golden Shower, a project here in

> This "piss" subject reminded me of Golden Shower, a project here in > Brazil. The site is > www.goldenshower.gs

Yeah I simply *love* some of their stuff (especially the soundtrack to some kind of X-mas game). Not at all 'lowercase', though. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Jason Stickel wrote:

quoted 7 lines Some of the stuff I have heard on recent comps. and elsewhere is beyond

> Some of the stuff I have heard on recent comps. and elsewhere is beyond > minimal though. What I am referring to is the thought that barely > decipherable noise can be interpreted as composition. It's like recording > white noise for an hour and calling it a track. Old Plastikman stuff, for > example, has texture and the space between bursts of sound are then given > meaning to some extent, but some (not all) of what is being passed off as > music these days is ridiculous.

I know what you mean, and I think an important part of constructing your own artistic perspective is being willing to say so when you hear something that you think is utter crap... At the same time, though, couldn't your comments be applied to any kind of music? It's not the genre, there's good and bad music in every genre isn't there? BTW, I heard Steve Roden here in LA a few months ago at that Rhizome thing and although he barely made any sound at all for long periods I found his performance completely captivating. John -- John von Seggern http://www.digitalcutuplounge.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Matthew Ross Davis wrote:

quoted 6 lines Don't get me wrong, this isn't to disparage the folks the article does touch

> Don't get me wrong, this isn't to disparage the folks the article does touch > on, they all do fantastic work (though where is Kit Clayton? Sutekh? Diego > Cortez? Stilluppsteypa, FENNESZ for crying out loud... someone joked about > Kid606, but some of what he's done for Mille Plateaux is firmly > lowercase-influenced); that article is just horribly shallow and uninformed, > I guess that's what we can expect from Wired.

Wired has been pretty crap for awhile, let's face it... John -- John von Seggern http://www.digitalcutuplounge.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Actually it was an article on WIRED News (owned by Lycos), not in WIRED Magazine (owned by Conde Nast). They used to be owned by the same company, but have been separate for a few years now. They still cross-promote, so it's pretty confusing, but there are certainly big differences in article quality... J -----Original Message----- Matthew Ross Davis wrote:

quoted 1 line Don't get me wrong, this isn't to disparage the folks the article does

> Don't get me wrong, this isn't to disparage the folks the article does

touch

quoted 4 lines on, they all do fantastic work (though where is Kit Clayton? Sutekh? Diego

> on, they all do fantastic work (though where is Kit Clayton? Sutekh? Diego > Cortez? Stilluppsteypa, FENNESZ for crying out loud... someone joked about > Kid606, but some of what he's done for Mille Plateaux is firmly > lowercase-influenced); that article is just horribly shallow and

uninformed,

quoted 1 line I guess that's what we can expect from Wired.

> I guess that's what we can expect from Wired.

Wired has been pretty crap for awhile, let's face it... John -- electronic music & digital art: http://www.gridface.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

jacob@gridface.com wrote:

quoted 5 lines Actually it was an article on WIRED News (owned by Lycos), not in WIRED

> Actually it was an article on WIRED News (owned by Lycos), not in WIRED > Magazine (owned by Conde Nast). They used to be owned by the same company, > but have been separate for a few years now. They still cross-promote, so > it's pretty confusing, but there are certainly big differences in article > quality...

Huh, I didn't know that...that explains a lot. I still read Wired News online almost everyday but have about given up on the magazine, although they do have the occasional interesting article. John

quoted 27 lines J

> > > J > > -----Original Message----- > Matthew Ross Davis wrote: > > > Don't get me wrong, this isn't to disparage the folks the article does > touch > > on, they all do fantastic work (though where is Kit Clayton? Sutekh? Diego > > Cortez? Stilluppsteypa, FENNESZ for crying out loud... someone joked about > > Kid606, but some of what he's done for Mille Plateaux is firmly > > lowercase-influenced); that article is just horribly shallow and > uninformed, > > I guess that's what we can expect from Wired. > > Wired has been pretty crap for awhile, let's face it... > > John > > -- > electronic music & digital art: > http://www.gridface.com/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

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