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and journalists sell or give the cd when they don't like it. there are shops full of promo ceedees... --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I know this isn't slashdot, but most of you work with digital audio so you'll know where I'm coming from. Sorry if this is too off topic. Lets just say that the powers that be can finally(!) make an unbreakable encryption. [That'll never happen as it is - every lock has a key, but assuming it can...] Then it would take *one* person to run the signal from a "protected cd"-friendly compact disc player into a digital recording device (ie computer with any wave editing program) and thus create corresponding aiff/wav files and [ghasp] mp3 files. Thus one burns a new copy that she could actually listen in her laptop. People would argue "Well not everyone has Sound Forge or a DAT recorder, so that would limit the circulation, etc." Obviously that is silly, as once those sound files are rendered by one person, it would take the same current channels of circulation to move the unencrypted, *new* data. And the real kicker is that this method would not even technically be violating the reverse engineering prohibition, since the original disc never would go into the actual computer and none of the original data would ever be extracted. So my bottom line: the only successful non-computer playable cds would be the cds with no playable music on them for *any* device with a simple output line. Brandon --- Syntax8rror@aol.com wrote:

quoted 5 lines and journalists sell or give the cd when they don't

> and journalists sell or give the cd when they don't > like it. there are shops > full of promo ceedees... > >

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* Brandon Smith (gozravp@yahoo.com) said:

quoted 14 lines I know this isn't slashdot, but most of you work with

> I know this isn't slashdot, but most of you work with > digital audio so you'll know where I'm coming from. > Sorry if this is too off topic. > Lets just say that the powers that be can finally(!) > make an unbreakable encryption. [That'll never happen > as it is - every lock has a key, but assuming it > can...] > Then it would take *one* person to run the signal from > a "protected cd"-friendly compact disc player into a > digital recording device (ie computer with any wave > editing program) and thus create corresponding > aiff/wav files and [ghasp] mp3 files. Thus one burns > a new copy that she could actually listen in her > laptop.

You are assuming that the cd player is producing an unecnrypted signal. The industry wants to watermark all audio and video. This watermark is never removed. When you listen or watch your data, the mark is still there, but "unpercetible" to humans. If something like the SSSCA passes (in the U.S.), all digital devices will be required to recognize these watermarks. Thus, you wouldn't be able to make digital copies of this material as your recorder, by law, wouldn't let you. Though we are legally allowed to make personal copies for our own use, there is no law that says we have to be ABLE to. Everyone who cares about these issues should visit http://www.eff.org/ as they are fighting hard against these issues. You can then all read about the latest frightening incarnation called Consumer Broadband and Digital Television Promotion Act (CBDTPA). -- jeremy avnet / brainsik .:. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

At 21:53 20/05/02, Jeremy Avnet wrote:

quoted 1 line You are assuming that the cd player is producing an unecnrypted signal.

>You are assuming that the cd player is producing an unecnrypted signal.

... aren't you assuming a digital signal? Why not put the (protected) CD into a high end player, record the ANALOGUE signal onto a good digital recorder, then redistribute those WAVs/mp3s/whatever? If watermarking is perceptible after an analogue transfer, then the watermark has corrupted the audio signal, so consumers and artists will be up in arms, and the watermarking won't be acceptable (as a musician, I want a consumer to be able to listen to my music *as I intended it* not after some piece of crap digital jiggery-pokery has been applied to it). Anyway, I still buy vinyl, so what do I care :-) john.. http://www.namke.com/ http://www.minimism.com/

The same principle being applied to digital recordings could be applied to vinyl, they could press it with a watermark that would then be recognized by digital encoders that would either accept or deny it for encoding. Although how it would react to scratches, cuts and pitch shifting would be anybody's guess. In any case, i'm pretty sure theres no fool-proof way of copy protecting music. Although it can be made more difficult with alot of work and coercion by record companies.. - cutups ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich" <arkive@btopenworld.com> To: "idm" <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [idm] copyright protected cds: the majors [ot - kinda]

quoted 16 lines | Anyway, I still buy vinyl, so what do I care :-)

> > > | Anyway, I still buy vinyl, so what do I care :-) > | > | > | john.. > | > > > Nice one! try copy-protecting vinyl!!! > > Anyway, I agree with the watermarking statement. Altering the output of a > recording is not beneficial to an artist or label, because it harms the > product. What I mean is that if you hear music on the radio, go out, buy > the CD, then go home and make your own copy for the car or walkman, and it > sounds different, or wierd, then you think your equipment's screwed..

until

quoted 1 line you find out it's actually the CD. Nah, that sucks. I am not going to

> you find out it's actually the CD. Nah, that sucks. I am not going to

buy

quoted 2 lines copy-protected CD's. Mainly because at least half of my collection is put

> copy-protected CD's. Mainly because at least half of my collection is put > onto minidisc for me to listen to wherever, and the CD's stay neat, unless

I

quoted 12 lines listen at home.

> listen at home. > > Just adding MO to the proceedings. > > Rich > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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