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RE: [idm] copy protection (crap)

30 messages · 19 participants · spans 2 days · search this subject
◇ merged from 6 subjects: copy protection · copy protection (crap) · copy protection (rant) · copy protection continued/minor u2 rant · …
2001-08-14 19:56Static Beats Re: [idm] copy protection (rant)
└─ 2001-08-14 21:25Brian MacDonald Re: [idm] copy protection (rant)
└─ 2001-08-14 21:38wells Re: [idm] copy protection (rant)
├─ 2001-08-14 21:45j snod Re: [idm] copy protection (rant)
│ └─ 2001-08-14 23:22Steven Brown Re: [idm] copy protection (rant)
└─ 2001-08-14 22:39Brian MacDonald Re: [idm] copy protection (rant)
2001-08-14 20:17Mxyzptlk [idm] copy protection
└─ 2001-08-14 19:21Howard Shih Re: [idm] copy protection
└─ 2001-08-14 20:46Mxyzptlk Re: [idm] copy protection
2001-08-14 22:00Static Beats Re: [idm] copy protection (rant)
└─ 2001-08-14 22:02Gil Re: [idm] copy protection (rant)
2001-08-14 22:18Aaron Trumm Re: [idm] copy protection (rant)
├─ 2001-08-14 22:30vis-you Re: [idm] copy protection (rant)
└─ 2001-08-14 23:49Jeff/Ninja Tune Re: [idm] copy protection (rant)
├─ 2001-08-14 22:39Adam Piontek RE: [idm] copy protection (crap)
│ └─ 2001-08-14 22:49The Chisa RE: [idm] copy protection (crap)
│ └─ 2001-08-14 22:56Adam Piontek RE: [idm] copy protection (crap)
└─ 2001-08-14 22:52Brian MacDonald [idm] How profits from music in the U.S. are trickled..
2001-08-14 23:33Static Beats Re: [idm] copy protection (crap)
└─ 2001-08-14 23:50Adam Piontek RE: [idm] copy protection (crap)
└─ 2001-08-15 03:44The Chisa RE: [idm] copy protection (crap)
2001-08-15 00:17Mark Kammerbauer [idm] copy protection (crap)
└─ 2001-08-16 13:45Ben Kirkley Re: [idm] copy protection (crap)
2001-08-15 11:39jayrope [idm] Re: copy protection (crap)
2001-08-15 15:58philippe petit [idm] copy protection (crap)
2001-08-15 20:14Anig Browl Re: [idm] copy protection (crap)
└─ 2001-08-16 00:22The Chisa [idm] copy protection continued/minor U2 rant
2001-08-16 12:59Mark Kammerbauer [idm] copy protection (crap)
└─ 2001-08-16 15:25The Chisa Re: [idm] copy protection (crap)
└─ 2001-08-16 23:28WildStyle24_7 [idm] OT: Black Hole (was RE: [idm] copy protection (crap) )
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2001-08-14 19:56Static Beats<rant> Well I'm sure glad I didn't spend $400 on an MP3 jukebox ! What about that whole as
From:
Static Beats
To:
Date:
Tue, 14 Aug 2001 12:56:04 -0700
Subject:
Re: [idm] copy protection (rant)
permalink · <005e01c124fb$26844b40$e5464440@shimonent>
<rant> Well I'm sure glad I didn't spend $400 on an MP3 jukebox ! What about that whole aspect of the debate? There are products being sold on the market today for playing MP3's. If CD's are built to disable this then isn't it disabling another sector of the marketplace as well? Are we to assume that the only people creating MP3's are those with 'original content'. Could they fill up 2gigs on a jukebox with it? WTF? What's the point? Personally, although I love the access to such a wide range of music I'm getting really sick of the lack of fidelity in a 128kbps MP3. It does not sound rich. It sounds dull. To me it is just a high-quality preview. If I actually like the album I'll just go out and buy it. </rant> Shimone/Justes http://www.staticbeats.com | Electronic Music For The Mind http://www.shimone.org | Pictures From The Soul ----- Original Message ----- From: Mxyzptlk To: Howard Shih Cc: idm@hyperreal.org Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 1:46 PM Subject: Re: [idm] copy protection Well, they're either poorly mastered or copy protected. They won't rip well at all or even track for playing on the cd-rom. Some great stuff on the label, btw. jeff At 02:21 PM 8/14/2001, Howard Shih wrote: >On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Mxyzptlk wrote: > > Just a bit of thought-fodder. It seems that several of the CDs on the > > Elektrolux label are copy-protected. > >I thought it was only that country guy you've never heard of >until now... Charley Pride that had his cd 'copy-protected'. > >hs
2001-08-14 21:25Brian MacDonaldOn Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Static Beats wrote: > <rant> > Well I'm sure glad I didn't spend $400
From:
Brian MacDonald
To:
Date:
Tue, 14 Aug 2001 14:25:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:
Re: [idm] copy protection (rant)
Reply to:
Re: [idm] copy protection (rant)
permalink · <Pine.GSO.3.96.1010814141127.9603A-100000@falco.kuci.uci.edu>
On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Static Beats wrote:
quoted 13 lines <rant>> <rant> > Well I'm sure glad I didn't spend $400 on an MP3 jukebox ! > > What about that whole aspect of the debate? > There are products being sold on the market today for playing MP3's. > If CD's are built to disable this then isn't it disabling another >sector of the marketplace as well? Are we to assume that the only people > creating MP3's are those with 'original content'. Could they fill up > 2gigs on a jukebox with it? > > WTF? > > What's the point?
I definitely agree with this... I forget which Illuminati or powers that be are at the forefront of all this copyrighted CD nonsense, but it is ridiculous that these same powers could also be indirectly behind marketing the same Mp3 playing gadgets that would be rendered moot by the former anyway. On one hand, one argument offered behind copyright CDs is that it curbs the speed at which music is copied more than prevent it altogether. On the other hand, what's the point of trying to retard the inevitable? (CDplayer --> audio out --> audio in --> computer.... no digital watermarking can prevent this method of copying... whatever slight resampling differences occur)
quoted 4 lines Personally, although I love the access to such a wide range of music> Personally, although I love the access to such a wide range of music >I'm getting really sick of the lack of fidelity in a 128kbps MP3. It does >not sound rich. It sounds dull. To me it is just a high-quality preview. >If I actually like the album I'll just go out and buy it.
Heh. If I'm not mistaken, wasn't this one of the main motifs of having a compressed, downloadable music file format? I'm not an RIAA apologist -- but I think it would be naive to think that Mp3s were created for the purpose of digitally archiving music at high quality. (Not to call you one of those naive people, Mista Beats... just speaking rhetorically)
quoted 2 lines </rant>> > </rant>
======================================================================= Brian MacDonald <brianm@kuci.org> ======================================================================= --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-08-14 21:38wellsOn 08/14/01, Brian MacDonald wrote: > > Heh. If I'm not mistaken, wasn't this one of the m
From:
wells
To:
Brian MacDonald
Cc:
Date:
Tue, 14 Aug 2001 14:38:08 -0700
Subject:
Re: [idm] copy protection (rant)
Reply to:
Re: [idm] copy protection (rant)
permalink · <20010814143808.A14658@submute.net>
On 08/14/01, Brian MacDonald wrote:
quoted 7 lines Heh. If I'm not mistaken, wasn't this one of the main motifs of having a> > Heh. If I'm not mistaken, wasn't this one of the main motifs of having a > compressed, downloadable music file format? I'm not an RIAA apologist -- > but I think it would be naive to think that Mp3s were created for the > purpose of digitally archiving music at high quality. (Not to call you > one of those naive people, Mista Beats... just speaking rhetorically) >
Why do you have to lie about it? You know you're an RIAA apologist. I know you're an RIAA apologist. Everyone knows you're an RIAA apologist. RIAA apologist. - wells oliver || wells@submute.net "I wouldn't know because I don't read, but I'll tell you one thing for sure: I wouldn't trust no words written down on no piece of paper especially from no Dickinson out in the town of Machine. You're just as likely to find your own grave." --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-08-14 21:45j snodOn Tue, 14 Aug 2001, wells wrote: > Why do you have to lie about it? You know you're an RI
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j snod
To:
Date:
Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:45:20 -0500 (CDT)
Subject:
Re: [idm] copy protection (rant)
Reply to:
Re: [idm] copy protection (rant)
permalink · <Pine.LNX.3.96.1010814163949.17441C-100000@raqmonkey.actualsize.com>
On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, wells wrote:
quoted 2 lines Why do you have to lie about it? You know you're an RIAA apologist. I know> Why do you have to lie about it? You know you're an RIAA apologist. I know > you're an RIAA apologist. Everyone knows you're an RIAA apologist.
actually, making MP3s is irrelevant to this argument.. by manufacturing copy-proof CDs, the RIAA is infringing on my right to make as many copies of a CD as i want/need, provided it's only for personal use, and provided i purchased the original. here is the real issue. part of what i pay for when i purchase a CD is a limited license which allows me to do this. the difference is in WHO is breaking this license. the RIAA by ASSUMING we're not going to comply to the license? or those who ACTUALLY DO make/distribute copies? i could be wrong, but i think you actually have to commit a crime before penalties can be put on you for comiting it. copy-proof CDs are essentialy a PREEMPTIVE-PENALTY against consumers. and that, i believe is illegal in and of itself. -j --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-08-14 23:22Steven Brownon 08/14/01 4:45 PM, j snod at jordan@actualsize.com wrote: > > On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, wells
From:
Steven Brown
To:
j snod ,
Date:
Tue, 14 Aug 2001 18:22:55 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] copy protection (rant)
Reply to:
Re: [idm] copy protection (rant)
permalink · <B79F1CFE.2F5%reflekt@mac.com>
on 08/14/01 4:45 PM, j snod at jordan@actualsize.com wrote:
quoted 26 lines On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, wells wrote:> > On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, wells wrote: >> Why do you have to lie about it? You know you're an RIAA apologist. I know >> you're an RIAA apologist. Everyone knows you're an RIAA apologist. > > actually, making MP3s is irrelevant to this argument.. by > manufacturing copy-proof CDs, the RIAA is infringing on my right to make > as many copies of a CD as i want/need, provided it's only for personal > use, and provided i purchased the original. here is the real issue. part > of what i pay for when i purchase a CD is a limited license which allows > me to do this. > > the difference is in WHO is breaking this license. the RIAA by > ASSUMING we're not going to comply to the license? or those who ACTUALLY > DO make/distribute copies? i could be wrong, but i think you actually > have to commit a crime before penalties can be put on you for comiting > it. copy-proof CDs are essentialy a PREEMPTIVE-PENALTY against consumers. > and that, i believe is illegal in and of itself. > > -j > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >
Word to that! We do know of the "guilty until proven innocent". --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-08-14 22:39Brian MacDonaldOn Tue, 14 Aug 2001, wells wrote: > Why do you have to lie about it? You know you're an RI
From:
Brian MacDonald
To:
Date:
Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:39:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:
Re: [idm] copy protection (rant)
Reply to:
Re: [idm] copy protection (rant)
permalink · <Pine.GSO.3.96.1010814153815.14215A-100000@falco.kuci.uci.edu>
On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, wells wrote:
quoted 4 lines Why do you have to lie about it? You know you're an RIAA apologist. I know> Why do you have to lie about it? You know you're an RIAA apologist. I know > you're an RIAA apologist. Everyone knows you're an RIAA apologist. > > RIAA apologist.
Listen, Hetfield, you better get the fuck back into the clinic before the happy people that take care of you and put things in you have to become the unhappy people. ======================================================================= Brian MacDonald <brianm@kuci.org> ======================================================================= --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-08-14 20:17MxyzptlkJust a bit of thought-fodder. It seems that several of the CDs on the Elektrolux label are
From:
Mxyzptlk
To:
Date:
Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:17:13 -0500
Subject:
[idm] copy protection
permalink · <5.1.0.14.2.20010814151510.01dc4ec0@mail.telocity.com>
Just a bit of thought-fodder. It seems that several of the CDs on the Elektrolux label are copy-protected. It seems that this may indeed spread beyond the Snoop Doggy Dog market - or, rather, has. jeff --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-08-14 19:21Howard ShihOn Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Mxyzptlk wrote: > Just a bit of thought-fodder. It seems that several
From:
Howard Shih
To:
Mxyzptlk
Cc:
Date:
Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:21:30 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:
Re: [idm] copy protection
Reply to:
[idm] copy protection
permalink · <Pine.BSI.4.05L.10108141520180.7615-100000@mail.eclipse.net>
On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Mxyzptlk wrote:
quoted 4 lines Just a bit of thought-fodder. It seems that several of the CDs on the> Just a bit of thought-fodder. It seems that several of the CDs on the > Elektrolux label are copy-protected. > It seems that this may indeed spread beyond the Snoop Doggy Dog market - > or, rather, has.
I thought it was only that country guy you've never heard of until now... Charley Pride that had his cd 'copy-protected'. hs --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-08-14 20:46MxyzptlkWell, they're either poorly mastered or copy protected. They won't rip well at all or even
From:
Mxyzptlk
To:
Howard Shih
Cc:
Date:
Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:46:26 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] copy protection
Reply to:
Re: [idm] copy protection
permalink · <5.1.0.14.2.20010814154512.01dc6010@mail.telocity.com>
Well, they're either poorly mastered or copy protected. They won't rip well at all or even track for playing on the cd-rom. Some great stuff on the label, btw. jeff At 02:21 PM 8/14/2001, Howard Shih wrote:
quoted 8 lines On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Mxyzptlk wrote:>On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Mxyzptlk wrote: > > Just a bit of thought-fodder. It seems that several of the CDs on the > > Elektrolux label are copy-protected. > >I thought it was only that country guy you've never heard of >until now... Charley Pride that had his cd 'copy-protected'. > >hs
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2001-08-14 22:00Static BeatsHear Hear ! Another beautiful point ! I like to make backups of my cd's so I keep the orig
From:
Static Beats
To:
j snod
Cc:
Date:
Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:00:49 -0700
Subject:
Re: [idm] copy protection (rant)
permalink · <004b01c1250c$9406e680$e5464440@shimonent>
Hear Hear ! Another beautiful point ! I like to make backups of my cd's so I keep the original in mint condition (for my collection) and then use the burnt copy in my car. As im sure at LEAST one of you knows - there is nothing quite like having your car broken into and 200 of your most prized IDM (and irreplaceable) CD's stolen ! Shimone/Justes http://www.staticbeats.com | Electronic Music For The Mind http://www.shimone.org | Pictures From The Soul ----- Original Message ----- From: j snod To: idm@hyperreal.org Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 2:45 PM Subject: Re: [idm] copy protection (rant) On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, wells wrote: > Why do you have to lie about it? You know you're an RIAA apologist. I know > you're an RIAA apologist. Everyone knows you're an RIAA apologist. actually, making MP3s is irrelevant to this argument.. by manufacturing copy-proof CDs, the RIAA is infringing on my right to make as many copies of a CD as i want/need, provided it's only for personal use, and provided i purchased the original. here is the real issue. part of what i pay for when i purchase a CD is a limited license which allows me to do this. the difference is in WHO is breaking this license. the RIAA by ASSUMING we're not going to comply to the license? or those who ACTUALLY DO make/distribute copies? i could be wrong, but i think you actually have to commit a crime before penalties can be put on you for comiting it. copy-proof CDs are essentialy a PREEMPTIVE-PENALTY against consumers. and that, i believe is illegal in and of itself. -j
2001-08-14 22:02Gilyou know, a friend of mine recently had his car stolen. He added up the value of all the C
From:
Gil
To:
IDM list
Date:
Tue, 14 Aug 2001 18:02:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:
Re: [idm] copy protection (rant)
Reply to:
Re: [idm] copy protection (rant)
permalink · <Pine.LNX.4.10.10108141800560.14113-100000@nowhere.fragment.com>
you know, a friend of mine recently had his car stolen. He added up the value of all the CDs and by going on various CD retailers online it added up to around $1500 to replace the music. The insurance company gave him $200. what's the lesson here? find a cheaper hobby than music? i dunno On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Static Beats wrote:
quoted 13 lines Hear Hear !> Hear Hear ! > > Another beautiful point ! > > I like to make backups of my cd's so I keep the original in mint > condition (for my collection) and then use the burnt copy in my car. > As im sure at LEAST one of you knows - there is nothing quite like > having your car broken into and 200 of your most prized IDM (and > irreplaceable) CD's stolen ! > > Shimone/Justes > http://www.staticbeats.com | Electronic Music For The Mind > http://www.shimone.org | Pictures From The Soul
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2001-08-14 22:18Aaron Trumm> you know, a friend of mine recently had his car stolen. He added up the > value of all t
From:
Aaron Trumm
To:
Date:
Tue, 14 Aug 2001 17:18:16 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] copy protection (rant)
permalink · <00fe01c1250f$04c597c0$b3711c18@TwistedPop.com>
quoted 8 lines you know, a friend of mine recently had his car stolen. He added up the> you know, a friend of mine recently had his car stolen. He added up the > value of all the CDs and by going on various CD retailers online it added > up to around $1500 to replace the music. The insurance company gave him > $200. > > what's the lesson here? > > find a cheaper hobby than music? i dunno
that reminds me of the crusade the Hole singer is on - basically the question being, if music is so goddamned expensive, yet musicians are so goddamned poor (and I mean, like the big famous ones, some of them are making 30 grand a year at best - not that I wouldn't take that - more than I make now, and a funner career), then where the hell is all the money going?
quoted 24 lines On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Static Beats wrote:> > > > On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Static Beats wrote: > > > Hear Hear ! > > > > Another beautiful point ! > > > > I like to make backups of my cd's so I keep the original in mint > > condition (for my collection) and then use the burnt copy in my car. > > As im sure at LEAST one of you knows - there is nothing quite like > > having your car broken into and 200 of your most prized IDM (and > > irreplaceable) CD's stolen ! > > > > Shimone/Justes > > http://www.staticbeats.com | Electronic Music For The Mind > > http://www.shimone.org | Pictures From The Soul > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >
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2001-08-14 22:30vis-you> if music is so goddamned expensive, yet musicians are so > goddamned poor... then where
From:
vis-you
To:
{[--idm--]}
Date:
Tue, 14 Aug 2001 17:30:09 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] copy protection (rant)
Reply to:
Re: [idm] copy protection (rant)
permalink · <B79F10A1.2DC4%mguest@isdn.net>
quoted 2 lines if music is so goddamned expensive, yet musicians are so> if music is so goddamned expensive, yet musicians are so > goddamned poor... then where the hell is all the money going?
Well that's rhetorical. (the record companies) I know musicians who recorded their own CDs and built up a regular following to sell to, who later signed in order to make it "big." They made less money selling a hundred thousand cds through a label than when they just sold 500-1000 themselves to their fans. -matT nashville.tn np://Headz 2/Source Direct/The Silent Witness/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-08-14 23:49Jeff/Ninja TuneThe money goes to supports the huge and clunky infrastructure of major labels making money
From:
Jeff/Ninja Tune
To:
Aaron Trumm ,
Date:
Tue, 14 Aug 2001 18:49:14 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] copy protection (rant)
Reply to:
Re: [idm] copy protection (rant)
permalink · <B79F2328.931B%jeff@ninjatune.net>
The money goes to supports the huge and clunky infrastructure of major labels making money on about 5% of their acts. Don't be to sympathetic. It's a bad contract sure, but they signed it. Eyes glazed over with visions of fame makes for blindness to the fine print. Jeff on 8/14/01 5:18 PM, Aaron Trumm at aaron@nquit.com wrote:
quoted 5 lines that reminds me of the crusade the Hole singer is on - basically the> that reminds me of the crusade the Hole singer is on - basically the > question being, if music is so goddamned expensive, yet musicians are so > goddamned poor (and I mean, like the big famous ones, some of them are > making 30 grand a year at best - not that I wouldn't take that - more than I > make now, and a funner career), then where the hell is all the money going?
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2001-08-14 22:39Adam Piontek> Eyes glazed over with visions of fame > makes for blindness to the fine print. Which rai
From:
Adam Piontek
To:
Inconvenient Dark Matter
Date:
Tue, 14 Aug 2001 18:39:36 -0400
Subject:
RE: [idm] copy protection (crap)
Reply to:
Re: [idm] copy protection (rant)
permalink · <LOEJLJGDFOBDGGLBNFJFCEJCCAAA.apiontek@yahoo.com>
quoted 2 lines Eyes glazed over with visions of fame> Eyes glazed over with visions of fame > makes for blindness to the fine print.
Which raises an important point: fame != money People lust after fame in lieu of money, which explains another poster's comment about artists developing a following, and then making it "big" and making less money than they did when they were just peddling their music by themselves. Fame (or noteriety?) is a sexy beast... Even (or especially!) if you're a "real artist" - having an impact on a greater number of people could be more important than collectin' tha doe. re mi fa... Anyways, doesn't this discussion belong on /.? Speaking of which, here's an (slightly relevant) article I saw there a few months ago: http://www.eff.org/IP/P2P/Napster/20010227_P2P_Copyright_White_Paper.html It talks about fair use and whatnot - maybe, if yer actually interested in this issue, searching for "real" information (with footnotes and references) would suit you better than trolling for suspiscious factoids provided by biased music fans! ;) Love and kibbles, -Adam --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-08-14 22:49The ChisaSee, the burr in my fur about all of this is not that I can't copy prerecorded music, lega
From:
The Chisa
To:
Adam Piontek
Cc:
Inconvenient Dark Matter
Date:
Tue, 14 Aug 2001 18:49:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:
RE: [idm] copy protection (crap)
Reply to:
RE: [idm] copy protection (crap)
permalink · <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108141842590.13781-100000@holland.deathhouse.net>
See, the burr in my fur about all of this is not that I can't copy prerecorded music, legally or otherwise, but that a government sanctioned institution is working towards monopolistic control of recording formats in general. Once this copy-protection shit is in full effect, how is an unsigned artist / home recorder supposed to get his material recognized except by going through the "official" corporate channels? I've built up my entire career on the internet and the mp3 format -- I'm not a hugely recognized artist, but I've got some fans and some clout, which I never would have been able to accomplish in the old days of demo tapes and college radio. I'm not worried though. One hacker is worth 30000 Microsoft engineers, and anything that can be encoded can be always be cracked. They did it with DVD, they'll do it with whatever else comes down the pike. What is needed is legislation that recognizes that people are sick and tired of HAVING to go illegal routes because the corporations' money controls the flow of governmental regulation. In short: buy nothing, steal everything, destroy system, build new system on rubble. IMHO m@2zo www.thechisa.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-08-14 22:56Adam Piontek> From: The Chisa [mailto:matt@holland.deathhouse.net] > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 6:
From:
Adam Piontek
To:
Inconvenient Dark Matter
Date:
Tue, 14 Aug 2001 18:56:12 -0400
Subject:
RE: [idm] copy protection (crap)
Reply to:
RE: [idm] copy protection (crap)
permalink · <LOEJLJGDFOBDGGLBNFJFGEJDCAAA.apiontek@yahoo.com>
quoted 5 lines From: The Chisa [mailto:matt@holland.deathhouse.net]> From: The Chisa [mailto:matt@holland.deathhouse.net] > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 6:49 PM > > in general. Once this copy-protection shit is in full effect, how is an > unsigned artist / home recorder supposed to get his material recognized
I'm confused - who's keeping anyone from listening to yer MP3s or a poor indie label's "unprotected" CDs (& vinyl!)? Who's working against you? Unless I'm greatly misinformed, it's not as if people will only be allowed to purchase music from these certain channels - they can still go get your MP3s if you want to let them download them, or go buy that old []pshr vinyl if it's still fer sale.
quoted 1 line except by going through the "official" corporate channels? I've built up> except by going through the "official" corporate channels? I've built up
there are "official" corporate channels *now*, but you don't have to participate in them.
quoted 2 lines In short: buy nothing, steal everything, destroy system, build new system> In short: buy nothing, steal everything, destroy system, build new system > on rubble. IMHO
My arrogant opinion is this: pay for what you think is worth paying for, don't listen to what you think isn't (if it's not worth paying for, why listen to it? if it ain't worth yer time, is it worth yer money, which you worked hard for?) There are multiple systems in place, and you can participate in the ones in which you wish to participate. There's some music legally offered for free that I think is great, and plenty of music not legally offered for free that I choose not to listen to because it's not worth it. Of course, it's nice to be able to hear music before paying for it, but that's a niche that's been filled already... People who want to build a new system on the rubble of the old are usually interested in controlling the new system themselves ... rebel leaders becoming dictators, etc. Power doesn't corrupt, it attracts the corruptible. Not saying you want to be what you hate, just saying that I don't understand what's working against you to keep you from doing what you're already doing in the first place. -Adam --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-08-14 22:52Brian MacDonald2% the artists 2% the record stores 2% label execs 94% Colombia Anyway, IDM then... ======
From:
Brian MacDonald
To:
Date:
Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:52:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:
[idm] How profits from music in the U.S. are trickled..
Reply to:
Re: [idm] copy protection (rant)
permalink · <Pine.GSO.3.96.1010814154830.14215B-100000@falco.kuci.uci.edu>
2% the artists 2% the record stores 2% label execs 94% Colombia Anyway, IDM then... ======================================================================= Brian MacDonald <brianm@kuci.org> "Don't... don't.... DO IT DO IT DO IT!..... BaBaBaBaBaBaby!" ======================================================================= --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-08-14 23:33Static BeatsActually I think what The Chisa was referring to was more along the lines of corporations
From:
Static Beats
To:
Adam Piontek
Cc:
Date:
Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:33:37 -0700
Subject:
Re: [idm] copy protection (crap)
permalink · <00b801c12519$8b406d70$e5464440@shimonent>
Actually I think what The Chisa was referring to was more along the lines of corporations who wished MP3 was *completely* banned. Notice the introduction of copy protection measures in Windows XP coupled with the removal of high-quality MP3 encoding options. If you cannot make MP3's in the first place (because new software and OS's don't allow it) then how can you, as an independent, get your work out there in this fashion? Shimone/Justes http://www.staticbeats.com | Electronic Music For The Mind http://www.shimone.org | Pictures From The Soul ----- Original Message ----- From: Adam Piontek To: Inconvenient Dark Matter Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 3:56 PM Subject: RE: [idm] copy protection (crap) > From: The Chisa [mailto:matt@holland.deathhouse.net] > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 6:49 PM > > in general. Once this copy-protection shit is in full effect, how is an > unsigned artist / home recorder supposed to get his material recognized I'm confused - who's keeping anyone from listening to yer MP3s or a poor indie label's "unprotected" CDs (& vinyl!)? Who's working against you? Unless I'm greatly misinformed, it's not as if people will only be allowed to purchase music from these certain channels - they can still go get your MP3s if you want to let them download them, or go buy that old []pshr vinyl if it's still fer sale.
2001-08-14 23:50Adam Piontek> From: Static Beats [mailto:static@staticbeats.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 7:34
From:
Adam Piontek
To:
Inconvenient Dark Matter
Date:
Tue, 14 Aug 2001 19:50:55 -0400
Subject:
RE: [idm] copy protection (crap)
Reply to:
Re: [idm] copy protection (crap)
permalink · <LOEJLJGDFOBDGGLBNFJFOEJECAAA.apiontek@yahoo.com>
quoted 11 lines From: Static Beats [mailto:static@staticbeats.com]> From: Static Beats [mailto:static@staticbeats.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 7:34 PM > > Actually I think what The Chisa was referring to was more along > the lines of corporations who wished MP3 was *completely* banned. > Notice the introduction of copy protection measures in Windows XP > coupled with the removal of high-quality MP3 encoding options. > > If you cannot make MP3's in the first place (because new software > and OS's don't allow it) then how can you, as an independent, get > your work out there in this fashion?
People actually use MS products to create/encode their music? I mean, sure, I use Windows on my PC, but I've never used a MS program to rip/encode MP3s, and I don't intend to start, even if theirs *wasn't* going to be crippled. And if I wanted to actually make music, I was under the impression that all the usual culprits (max/msp/fruityloops/rebirth/whateverthelatestthingis) were made by companies other than MS. It's a valid point that, if MP3 were to completely disappear, it would remove an attractive option, but I don't think there will ever come a time when there are not alternatives. Even MP3 must be replaced/deprecated someday... And what about Macs? -Adam --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-08-15 03:44The ChisaOn Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Adam Piontek wrote: > People actually use MS products to create/encod
From:
The Chisa
To:
Adam Piontek
Cc:
Inconvenient Dark Matter
Date:
Tue, 14 Aug 2001 23:44:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:
RE: [idm] copy protection (crap)
Reply to:
RE: [idm] copy protection (crap)
permalink · <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108142340140.16294-100000@holland.deathhouse.net>
On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Adam Piontek wrote:
quoted 6 lines People actually use MS products to create/encode their music? I mean, sure,> People actually use MS products to create/encode their music? I mean, sure, > I use Windows on my PC, but I've never used a MS program to rip/encode MP3s, > and I don't intend to start, even if theirs *wasn't* going to be crippled. > And if I wanted to actually make music, I was under the impression that all > the usual culprits (max/msp/fruityloops/rebirth/whateverthelatestthingis) > were made by companies other than MS.
You still have to install CODECS to encode mp3s, and Windows XP suppresses THAT, too. Yes, it does.
quoted 5 lines It's a valid point that, if MP3 were to completely disappear, it would> It's a valid point that, if MP3 were to completely disappear, it would > remove an attractive option, but I don't think there will ever come a time > when there are not alternatives. > > Even MP3 must be replaced/deprecated someday...
I also agree with this, as I tried to illustrate in my "they did it with DVD" section of my rant. Teh computers that RUN whatever new encoding formats that come out are equally capable of BREAKING said formats; the arguement itself is a red herring in the information age, because the very technology that reproduces the sound can, and will, be used to redefine it.
quoted 1 line And what about Macs?> And what about Macs?
That reminds me -- when we played with Marumari, his PC-usin' white ass said, direct quote, "Steve Jobs licks my nuts." And you thought the BoC as pedophiles rumor was ridiculous... m@2zo --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-08-15 00:17Mark Kammerbauer> Even MP3 must be replaced/deprecated someday... > > And what about Macs? > > -Adam --wha
From:
Mark Kammerbauer
To:
Date:
Wed, 15 Aug 2001 02:17:33 +0200 (MEST)
Subject:
[idm] copy protection (crap)
permalink · <14787.997834653@www46.gmx.net>
quoted 5 lines Even MP3 must be replaced/deprecated someday...> Even MP3 must be replaced/deprecated someday... > > And what about Macs? > > -Adam
--what's the word on ogg vorbis? is anyone using that, or was that a classic bellyflop? --Mark -- Mark Kammerbauer http://www.nexialist.com http://mp3.com/fragmentking GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet. http://www.gmx.net --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-08-16 13:45Ben Kirkley> --what's the word on ogg vorbis? is anyone using that, or was that a classic > bellyflop
From:
Ben Kirkley
To:
Mark Kammerbauer , idm
Date:
Thu, 16 Aug 2001 14:45:46 +0100
Subject:
Re: [idm] copy protection (crap)
Reply to:
[idm] copy protection (crap)
permalink · <B7A18D1A.26B8%ben.kirkley@displaypost.co.uk>
quoted 4 lines --what's the word on ogg vorbis? is anyone using that, or was that a classic> --what's the word on ogg vorbis? is anyone using that, or was that a classic > bellyflop? > > --Mark
Ogg Vorbis hasn't belly flopped yet. They just came out with a new build (RC2) a few days ago actually. It's looking better and better all the time. Technically it's a very good sound format (compared to MP3), plus it's free to use. However, as we all know, it takes more than just brilliance to make it in this world. If it isn't taken up by manufacturers and software developers then it will die a slow death. I'm confident that that won't be the case though. There are no licensing fees for including the codec in a product, so this makes it quite attractive. There was a good new thread discussing Vorbis on Slashdot the other day. For those who are interested: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/08/13/1811241&mode=thread BenK --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-08-15 11:39jayropecopy protection: as an artist i know that of course selling cds to people makes part of yo
From:
jayrope
To:
LIST/idm
Date:
Wed, 15 Aug 2001 13:39:19 +0200
Subject:
[idm] Re: copy protection (crap)
permalink · <3B7A5F65.3118A176@gmx.net>
copy protection: as an artist i know that of course selling cds to people makes part of your living, if not all of it. and it should be clear to any artist then, that his/her music sells when people like it (or even heavily dislike it actually) art-transferring media should be copyable. because that's what spreads the artist's worx and name :-)) any artists who is against free copying in my eyes is not worth being bought, too. the fact that major selling acts introduce the new cd copy protection here at the moment speaks for itself: making money is the issue there. that type of music is mostly unhearable anyways. it functions only on the base of the "phil collins - effect": play it five weeks on heavy rotation and everybody will love it, whatever it is. thank us ourselves for we have ears, eyes, senses and we don´t trust anyone coming in and screaming out loud. -- jayrope • rope ------------------ self-drawing netart application: http://www.jayrope.com/jall/autojayropinsky/autojayropinsky.html ------------------ music: ROPE etc: http://www.jayrope.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-08-15 15:58philippe petitany artists who is against free copying in my eyes is not worth being bought, well as far
From:
philippe petit
To:
Date:
Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:58:32 +0200
Subject:
[idm] copy protection (crap)
permalink · <3B7A9C27.812577CE@wanadoo.fr>
any artists who is against free copying in my eyes is not worth being bought, well as far as I'm concerned I'd agree to the above in a sense that I wish that people could chose if they want to buy my records, copy them, or just ignore them. But one thing should be remembered : every work should deserve a salary and sound-assemblers spend time to create their music, give us pleasure, so they should deserve to be repaid. philippe BiP-HOp Generation v. 3 [bleep 05] The series is truly a document of today's creative forms of Electronica. 14 exclusive songs, musically packed with almost 80 minutes, the composers are each given much longer amounts of time to showcase their talent. Even for those who think there should be a moratorium on Electronica compilations, this is worth checking out. NEOTROPIC (UK) / BOVINE LIFE (Scot) / PIMMON (Au) / ZONK'T (Fr) / ATAU TANAKA (Jp) / NOVEL 23 (Ru) http://www.bip-hop.com
2001-08-15 20:14Anig BrowlFrom: The Chisa <matt@holland.deathhouse.net> > See, the burr in my fur about all of this
From:
Anig Browl
To:
IDM List
Date:
Wed, 15 Aug 2001 21:14:33 +0100
Subject:
Re: [idm] copy protection (crap)
permalink · <00c601c125e2$2754f3c0$daa7869f@pauls>
From: The Chisa <matt@holland.deathhouse.net>
quoted 4 lines See, the burr in my fur about all of this is not that I can't copy> See, the burr in my fur about all of this is not that I can't copy > prerecorded music, legally or otherwise, but that a government sanctioned > institution is working towards monopolistic control of recording formats > in general.
Certainly, money talks - hence my complaints elsewhere about the DMCA. And this is also why many artists wind up signing crappy contracts with record companies - getting some money is better than none. Indeed, that's why many people sign crappy contracts with employers that require them to be tested for drug use and the like. Big entertainment companies often demand that the 'talent' agree to clauses governing personal behaviour and so on in case they wind up in rehab during that difficult third album stage.
quoted 7 lines Once this copy-protection shit is in full effect, how is an> Once this copy-protection shit is in full effect, how is an > unsigned artist / home recorder supposed to get his material recognized > except by going through the "official" corporate channels? I've built up > my entire career on the internet and the mp3 format -- I'm not a hugely > recognized artist, but I've got some fans and some clout, which I never > would have been able to accomplish in the old days of demo tapes and > college radio.
This is a very good question. I'm also putting out a little music on mp3, and I hope that it will go somewhere in the future too. To be frank, I don't know how this can eventually translate into earning a living for most people. Of course the talented artist can try to get signed to a label, and fortunately there are many fine independent labels for those of us who like weird music. And any artist can work towards building up a fan base and then making some income by touring. But if you want to reach a very wide audience, without getting into bed with Big Media, I really don't know. Personally, I don't feel so talented that I have serious expectations of making a full-time income from music, and I'd be quite happy to have an enjoyable day job and play live at small weird music events from time to time. But it must be deeply frustrating for more traditional entertainers who aspire to be on a big stage and have to make a lot of compromises to do so. Really, those of us who like/make weird music are quite well off, because the very unpopularity of this music with the average consumer is what glues the underground together. There is a critical mass of people who like good house, techno, experimental, classical music, and labels and promoters are able to work together to make structures that allow it to be heard (many orchestra musicians are in the same financial boat as bedroom composers). So while the hot new wannabe who mails a demo to Warp can't realistically expect to become an international megastar, neither do they have to worry too much about being asked to rewrite their stuff to make it more chart-friendly, or ripped off by outrageous contracts or anything. I think the real losers are the people who want to make more conventional accessible music. I'm not thinking about the latest plastic pop clones, but credible songwriters like David Gray or Tracy Chapman - they're good artists, who've chosen to say something through the medium of ballads, and that's as worthy as any other kind of music if it's done well. These artists tend to get really kicked around by the music business, because they need mainstream exposure to get any serious degree of success, but they're not big sellers. David Gray had respectable sales of two albums but got kicked off his label when they decided to focus on big-name acts. The hit he had last year with 'Babylon' was released twice by his own label before a larger one took a chance on him and picked up his 3rd album. Because artists like these can't rely on a specialist music fanbase like the ones mentioned above, lots of them get nowhere in the modern music business because it's so hard to get any radio exposure. This seems to be the problem in every market. Irish people like to congratulate themselves that our country has produced the world's biggest rock band, U2. Now I remember when I was a lad of 10 or 12 and they were having their early hits in Ireland - raw-boned pimply teenagers with dodgy haircuts (even then), and a few catchy riffs. Grand lads, but nobody thought they'd be filling stadiums five years later. Now the Irish music industry (and media) revolves around acts like the Corrs, Westlife, Samantha Mumba, and a couple of unmentionably bad dance producers - manufactured pop for people who see music as lifestyle accessory. There are a few decent new artists trying to make it with credible music, but they get about as much exposure as last year's mobile phone. I think this is very bad for music in general, and obscure genre music as well, because it means that people are growing up with the idea of music as a prepackaged commodity that comes in a limited variety of flavours, and are simply unaware that there are more choices available. That means less variety in record stores, and fewer oppotunities for musicians to play as well. The city I live in (Limerick) used to have a good concert hall - in the 80s I could go and see a band every week, and every few months there'd be some big act from the UK whose albums you might own, so people were able to see worthwhile bands like the Smiths locally. Although the city has grown by about 50% since then, there is no venue large enough to house big pop acts and not many people interested in new bands, so there are only a few venues in town that host any live music at all. Apart from a tiny cooperative started recently by some local punk/thrash bands that book a venue and get 5 or 6 artists in to make the most of it, there is almost no live music scene here any more. Forget going to a club, unless you like listening to the same tunes as the radio while surrounded by drunks trying to show off this week's new clothes/body piercing. It doesn't seem much better around the rest of the country, even in Dublin (which has almost a million people). IDM artists do come to Ireland from time to time, but these days there are just very few venues for them to play at. Well, sorry, this has turned into a kind of indictment on the state of the music industry, which I hadn't planned to write. I guess I feel this entire copyright argument is just a symptom of the much bigger problem of commodification of the music industry.
quoted 2 lines In short: buy nothing, steal everything, destroy system, build new system> In short: buy nothing, steal everything, destroy system, build new system > on rubble. IMHO
I wish I could agree, but without an alternative plan, the new systems tend to wind up as duplicates of the old, or even worse. In some respects, the above describes exactly how big music operates today: sign as few people as possible, overwork every new trend to death, and swamp the market with cheesy instant-appeal product. Anig Browl _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-08-16 00:22The ChisaOn Wed, 15 Aug 2001, Anig Browl wrote: > Irish people like to > congratulate themselves th
From:
The Chisa
To:
Anig Browl
Cc:
IDM List
Date:
Wed, 15 Aug 2001 20:22:38 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:
[idm] copy protection continued/minor U2 rant
Reply to:
Re: [idm] copy protection (crap)
permalink · <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108152015250.2716-100000@holland.deathhouse.net>
On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, Anig Browl wrote:
quoted 6 lines Irish people like to> Irish people like to > congratulate themselves that our country has produced the world's biggest > rock band, U2. Now I remember when I was a lad of 10 or 12 and they were > having their early hits in Ireland - raw-boned pimply teenagers with dodgy > haircuts (even then), and a few catchy riffs. Grand lads, but nobody thought > they'd be filling stadiums five years later.
See, that's the funny thing about U2 -- they made an entire career out of being angry young Irish politicos, and it turned them into happy old American millionaires, and suddenly they had nothing to write about.
quoted 8 lines In short: buy nothing, steal everything, destroy system, build new system> > In short: buy nothing, steal everything, destroy system, build new system > > on rubble. IMHO > > I wish I could agree, but without an alternative plan, the new systems tend > to wind up as duplicates of the old, or even worse. In some respects, the > above describes exactly how big music operates today: sign as few people as > possible, overwork every new trend to death, and swamp the market with > cheesy instant-appeal product.
"New system" would imply an alternative plan, yes? We could go round and about forever with the "benefits of capitalist drive" vs "benefits of socialist sharing" arguement, I suppose -- much smarter folks than ourselves have been doing so for centuries. But, I also suppose it comes down to the ultimate reality, that one who is not willing to act towards change, will learn to be comfortable with the status quo. m@2zo --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-08-16 12:59Mark Kammerbauer...since this is my first *real* message to the list, hi all. isn't it obvious what's gonn
From:
Mark Kammerbauer
To:
Date:
Thu, 16 Aug 2001 14:59:42 +0200 (MEST)
Subject:
[idm] copy protection (crap)
permalink · <26392.997966782@www7.gmx.net>
...since this is my first *real* message to the list, hi all. isn't it obvious what's gonna happen? sooner or later, microsoft will decide not to support any other formats than their own crapmedia. we'll all have to stick with their OS after they stop supporting W95, W98 etc. and they'll force the hardware industry to comply. our only choice will be to either switch to mac or salvage old, crappy computers with old software so we can still listen to mp3's...unless of course someone has a problem with being a *criminal*... that pretty much answers why disney doesn't mention tron anymore. it doesn't fit into their vanilla coated brave new world (did anyone ever see this show "seventh heaven"? talking about dystopia) never mind courtney. check out what steve albini has to say. at least he did something in music. http://www.negativland.com/albini.html out for now, Mark -- Mark Kammerbauer http://www.nexialist.com GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet. http://www.gmx.net --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-08-16 15:25The ChisaOn Thu, 16 Aug 2001, Mark Kammerbauer wrote: > that pretty much answers why disney doesn't
From:
The Chisa
To:
Mark Kammerbauer
Cc:
Date:
Thu, 16 Aug 2001 11:25:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:
Re: [idm] copy protection (crap)
Reply to:
[idm] copy protection (crap)
permalink · <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108161121240.9123-100000@holland.deathhouse.net>
On Thu, 16 Aug 2001, Mark Kammerbauer wrote:
quoted 3 lines that pretty much answers why disney doesn't mention tron anymore. it doesn't> that pretty much answers why disney doesn't mention tron anymore. it doesn't > fit into their vanilla coated brave new world (did anyone ever see this show > "seventh heaven"? talking about dystopia)
Not to mention "The Black Hole" -- you ever watch that shit? It's TERRIFYING. They want NOTHING to do with that movie anymore, because that's not the "kinder, gentler" Disney. It amuses me, though, that they do still show the 70's short cartoons on the Disney Channel, when it was blatantly obvious that the animators were doing so much LSD they were barely in orbit enough to form coherrent plotlines... but I digress. Back to music. m@2zo --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-08-16 23:28WildStyle24_7> -----Original Message----- > From: The Chisa [mailto:matt@holland.deathhouse.net] > Sent
From:
WildStyle24_7
To:
Date:
Fri, 17 Aug 2001 00:28:24 +0100
Subject:
[idm] OT: Black Hole (was RE: [idm] copy protection (crap) )
Reply to:
Re: [idm] copy protection (crap)
permalink · <NEBBIEBFILCPIAJEKONJMEFLCDAA.WildStyle24-7@eidosnet.co.uk>
quoted 7 lines -----Original Message-----> -----Original Message----- > From: The Chisa [mailto:matt@holland.deathhouse.net] > Sent: 16 August 2001 16:26 > To: Mark Kammerbauer > Cc: idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: Re: [idm] copy protection (crap) >
quoted 3 lines Not to mention "The Black Hole" -- you ever watch that shit? It's> Not to mention "The Black Hole" -- you ever watch that shit? It's > TERRIFYING. >
God, that brings back memories - I watched that at the cinema when I was a nipper, and I had a few of the action figures too, although sadly, not that beat up old robot. The big red robot with the spinning blades was the thing I remember most vividly - particularly the scene where it attacks Anthony Perkins' character with them. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org