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Re: [idm] "over" idm

28 messages · 13 participants · spans 4 days · search this subject
◇ merged from 2 subjects: "over" idm · "over" idm - jungle
2001-05-07 23:08David George [idm] "over" idm
└─ 2001-05-08 17:37Gil Re: [idm] "over" idm
└─ 2001-05-08 17:48atomly Re: [idm] "over" idm
└─ 2001-05-08 17:56Adam Piontek Re: [idm] "over" idm
└─ 2001-05-08 18:38atomly Re: [idm] "over" idm
└─ 2001-05-08 18:46Adam Piontek Re: [idm] "over" idm
2001-05-08 18:52cutup Re: [idm] "over" idm
└─ 2001-05-08 19:05atomly Re: [idm] "over" idm
2001-05-08 20:45cutup Re: [idm] "over" idm
└─ 2001-05-08 22:20William Samuels Re: [idm] "over" idm - Jungle
├─ 2001-05-08 22:31Jordan Koch Re: [idm] "over" idm - Jungle
│ ├─ 2001-05-08 22:44atomly Re: [idm] "over" idm - Jungle
│ ├─ 2001-05-08 22:58William Samuels Re: [idm] "over" idm - Jungle
│ └─ 2001-05-10 23:12R. Lim Re: [idm] "over" idm - Jungle
│ └─ 2001-05-10 23:17Jordan Koch Re: [idm] "over" idm - Jungle
│ └─ 2001-05-11 00:27R. Lim Re: [idm] "over" idm - Jungle
│ └─ 2001-05-11 00:43Jordan Koch Re: [idm] "over" idm - Jungle
│ └─ 2001-05-11 13:08Diana Potts RE: [idm] "over" idm - Jungle
└─ 2001-05-08 22:48atomly Re: [idm] "over" idm - Jungle
├─ 2001-05-08 22:59Jordan Koch Re: [idm] "over" idm - Jungle
├─ 2001-05-08 23:25William Samuels Re: [idm] "over" idm - Jungle
└─ 2001-05-09 00:12Doug Re: [idm] "over" idm - Jungle
└─ 2001-05-09 01:13Gil Re: [idm] "over" idm - Jungle
2001-05-09 03:37Forward Production Re: [idm] "over" idm
├─ 2001-05-09 03:49Adam Piontek RE: [idm] "over" idm
└─ 2001-05-09 04:32Peter Schrock Re: [idm] "over" idm
└─ 2001-05-09 16:36atomly Re: [idm] "over" idm
2001-05-09 10:45Tom Pereira Re: [idm] "over" idm
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2001-05-07 23:08David GeorgeJust chiming in to say that I too find the non-idm info on this list much more appealing t
From:
David George
To:
idm
Date:
Mon, 7 May 2001 19:08:02 -0400
Subject:
[idm] "over" idm
permalink · <3AF9785C@MailAndNews.com>
Just chiming in to say that I too find the non-idm info on this list much more appealing than the strictly idm stuff. If there wasn't much talk about anything else I'd be gone in a flash... As an example of what I check out on the list, here are my fave tunes at the moment: ::Convextion - Crawling and Hungry [Tektite] Beautiful minimal techno, best I've heard in quite a while. Listen to this loud. ::Digital - Foolbwoy [Sheebeen] It wouldn't surprise me if a sub-genre forms based on Digital's steppy-dub-drumnbass hybrid shit. I love it and want to hear more. ::Herbert - Leave me now [!k7] Typical mellow house from Herbert. Nothing fancy, just a great tune with the brillo "Back to the Start" on the b-side. Over and out.. Dave ===== --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-05-08 17:37GilYup I have to agree with the original sentiment of the instigating post. Seems to me that
From:
Gil
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IDM list
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Tue, 8 May 2001 13:37:48 -0400 (EDT)
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Re: [idm] "over" idm
Reply to:
[idm] "over" idm
permalink · <Pine.LNX.4.10.10105081331040.21813-100000@nowhere.fragment.com>
Yup I have to agree with the original sentiment of the instigating post. Seems to me that much of the current crop of IDM hit a peak 12-14 months ago. Since then I've been less and less wowed by what I've been hearing. And I don't think it has to do with the quality of stuff coming out now, but more at the fact that the classic-ae-influenced/derivitive style has run its course. So these days I still stick to a handful of artists that have established a good reputation, but I just don't have the head or wallet to keep up with every new artist. These days I've pretty much directed my attention towards all the dubby and minimal techno. I don't know if much of it is that innovative, but it sounds fresh to my ears. anyway.. -Gil np: heiko laux - classic open --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-05-08 17:48atomly[Gil <gyaker@fragment.com>] > These days I've pretty much directed my attention towards al
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atomly
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Date:
Tue, 8 May 2001 12:48:30 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] "over" idm
Reply to:
Re: [idm] "over" idm
permalink · <20010508124830.A17454@atomly.com>
[Gil <gyaker@fragment.com>]
quoted 3 lines These days I've pretty much directed my attention towards all the dubby> These days I've pretty much directed my attention towards all the dubby > and minimal techno. I don't know if much of it is that innovative, but it > sounds fresh to my ears.
Yea, this is pretty much the only stuff that's been impressing me at all lately as well. Jungle, two-step, IDM and rock have all pretty much stagnated. -- :: atomly :: atomly@atomly.com | atomly@atdot.org | atomly@curiousnetworks.com http://www.atomly.com | http://www.mp3.com/atomly --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-05-08 17:56Adam Piontek--- atomly <atomly@atomly.com> wrote: > [Gil <gyaker@fragment.com>] > > These days I've pr
From:
Adam Piontek
To:
Date:
Tue, 8 May 2001 10:56:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:
Re: [idm] "over" idm
Reply to:
Re: [idm] "over" idm
permalink · <20010508175624.14101.qmail@web13803.mail.yahoo.com>
--- atomly <atomly@atomly.com> wrote:
quoted 10 lines [Gil <gyaker@fragment.com>]> [Gil <gyaker@fragment.com>] > > These days I've pretty much directed my attention > towards all the dubby > > and minimal techno. I don't know if much of it is > that innovative, but it > > sounds fresh to my ears. > > Yea, this is pretty much the only stuff that's been > impressing me at all > lately as well.
I'm one of the few people who, although I definitely "get" the minimal techno and the dubby techno stuff, it just lights absolutely no flame in my belly. Some of the "gentler" kid-606 stuff is nice, but frankly it all sounds the same to me. Just not my genre, I guess.
quoted 2 lines Jungle, two-step, IDM and rock have all pretty much> Jungle, two-step, IDM and rock have all pretty much > stagnated.
To my ears, the minimal stuff sounds pretty much all the same and stagnating as well. I think it has little to do with stagnation, really, and more to do with personal preference and "conditioning." To a certain extent, you *can* make yourself like something, if you really really want to. I really wanted to like the new Autechre, but it just doesn't do anything for me. I kept at it for a while, and started to get used to it, but for me, I wasn't really hearing anything more that wasn't there before. And I *love* Chiastic Slide and LP5. Really, music isn't really a progression anyway. It evolves and changes, and our tastes as listeners do as well, but for the most part it has little, if anything, to do with intelligence, either in the listener or the composer. Oh, and does anyone know who Crunch is? I heard it might be Bola! -adam __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-05-08 18:38atomly[Adam Piontek <apiontek@yahoo.com>] > I'm one of the few people who, although I definitely
From:
atomly
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Date:
Tue, 8 May 2001 13:38:16 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] "over" idm
Reply to:
Re: [idm] "over" idm
permalink · <20010508133816.A17592@atomly.com>
[Adam Piontek <apiontek@yahoo.com>]
quoted 4 lines I'm one of the few people who, although I definitely "get" the minimal> I'm one of the few people who, although I definitely "get" the minimal > techno and the dubby techno stuff, it just lights absolutely no flame > in my belly. Some of the "gentler" kid-606 stuff is nice, but frankly > it all sounds the same to me. Just not my genre, I guess.
Well, I'm not really into that side of stuff... I'm more into the more techno/housey stuff thant he really glitchy stuff. I really like Herbert, Basic Channel, etc.
quoted 2 lines To my ears, the minimal stuff sounds pretty much all the same and> To my ears, the minimal stuff sounds pretty much all the same and > stagnating as well.
Which artists are you talking about, in particular? And when I said stagnating, I should have clarified it. I'm not one of those "it must be innovative to be good" people, I just feel that the afforementioned genres have all been overrun by people making music that's mediocre at best. Almost nobody's making good jungle right now- it's not they've stagnated, it's that they've moved in a direction I don't like, I guess.
quoted 1 line Oh, and does anyone know who Crunch is? I heard it might be Bola!> Oh, and does anyone know who Crunch is? I heard it might be Bola!
Does this need to be in the FAQ yet? -- :: atomly :: atomly@atomly.com | atomly@atdot.org | atomly@curiousnetworks.com http://www.atomly.com | http://www.mp3.com/atomly --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-05-08 18:46Adam Piontek--- atomly <atomly@atomly.com> wrote: > [Adam Piontek <apiontek@yahoo.com>] > > I'm one of
From:
Adam Piontek
To:
Date:
Tue, 8 May 2001 11:46:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:
Re: [idm] "over" idm
Reply to:
Re: [idm] "over" idm
permalink · <20010508184650.73480.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com>
--- atomly <atomly@atomly.com> wrote:
quoted 11 lines [Adam Piontek <apiontek@yahoo.com>]> [Adam Piontek <apiontek@yahoo.com>] > > I'm one of the few people who, although I > definitely "get" the minimal > > techno and the dubby techno stuff, it just lights > absolutely no flame > > Well, I'm not really into that side of stuff... I'm > more into the > more techno/housey stuff thant he really glitchy > stuff. I really like > Herbert, Basic Channel, etc.
Oh. Well, even there, I really liked Luomo's Vocalcity, got Weatherall's Hypercity mix CD on the same label, then download a bunch of Tresor stuff and tried out samples of the Crane A.K. stuff on force inc., and got some of the Herbert stuff, but after a while, I have to say I'm not enamored with the whole tech house stuff. I mean, it's nice, and it's certainly better than AE for dancing (for me, anyway), but it's like jungle to me - a few great things and the rest all sounds the same once I was introduced to it.
quoted 5 lines To my ears, the minimal stuff sounds pretty much> > To my ears, the minimal stuff sounds pretty much > all the same and > > stagnating as well. > > Which artists are you talking about, in particular?
well, back on the minimal/glitch tip, I guess I'm just talking about it because I recently heard a lot of V.Delay stuff, the clicks & cuts stuff, and a few of monolake's albums, and none of it struck me as worth having or listening to again. And it all sounded very similar.
quoted 3 lines it's not they've stagnated, it's that they've moved> it's not they've stagnated, it's that they've moved > in a direction I > don't like, I guess.
true; i'd agree with that. also, when I first get into something new, it's like, the first artists I hear are the best, the ones that I identify with the "sound" I'm looking for. Then I ask around and get recommendations for similar stuff, but that's all I really get - *similar* stuff. Once I've identified a sound I like, I find that about 90% of the time, I'd do better to just listen to the original album again than to seek out new, similar artists, as they are bound to disappoint me by not being what I was really looking for. And it's really just subjective bias.
quoted 4 lines Oh, and does anyone know who Crunch is? I heard> > Oh, and does anyone know who Crunch is? I heard > it might be Bola! > > Does this need to be in the FAQ yet?
While we're at it, could someone explain to me which is better: vinyl or CD? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-05-08 18:52cutup> And when I said stagnating, I should have clarified it. I'm not one of > those "it must
From:
cutup
To:
Date:
Tue, 8 May 2001 14:52:56 -0400
Subject:
Re: [idm] "over" idm
permalink · <01a301c0d7f0$186048a0$9f7c97d8@NCC1417>
quoted 6 lines And when I said stagnating, I should have clarified it. I'm not one of> And when I said stagnating, I should have clarified it. I'm not one of > those "it must be innovative to be good" people, I just feel that the > afforementioned genres have all been overrun by people making music > that's mediocre at best. Almost nobody's making good jungle right now- > it's not they've stagnated, it's that they've moved in a direction I > don't like, I guess.
i kind of feel the same way, but i can't tell if its just that i'm hyper sensitive to what new music is coming out. it seems hard to imagine what direction that jungle will go from here without really smashing up the limited forms its governed by....i could imagine it...i just can't imagine it happening. i think its more time for the limits of jungle to be broken down and evolved....it already has but it should continue in many more ways.... - cutups --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-05-08 19:05atomly[cutup <cutup@andythepooh.com>] > i kind of feel the same way, but i can't tell if its jus
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atomly
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Tue, 8 May 2001 14:05:52 -0500
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Re: [idm] "over" idm
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Re: [idm] "over" idm
permalink · <20010508140552.H17972@atomly.com>
[cutup <cutup@andythepooh.com>]
quoted 8 lines i kind of feel the same way, but i can't tell if its just that i'm> i kind of feel the same way, but i can't tell if its just that i'm > hyper sensitive to what new music is coming out. it seems hard to > imagine what direction that jungle will go from here without really > smashing up the limited forms its governed by....i could imagine > it...i just can't imagine it happening. > > i think its more time for the limits of jungle to be broken down and > evolved....it already has but it should continue in many more ways....
I've always believed that the main problem with jungle is that it's too self-limiting. You have guys like Grooverider and Goldie that want to run the scene and make sure that the only stuff that gets popular is what they like at the current moment. Jungle always has to move as one big unit from one big thing to the next. There was even a post to the Breakbeat Science message board once asking if it was OK to stop playing Bad Company tracks. Jesus. Then you look at a genre like techno that has WAY more releases in a week and therefore way more releases that I like. Techno has allowed itself to expand and diversify but jungle won't let this happen for some reason. When Laurent Ho, Maurizio and Plastikman are all techno, why can't the variations in jungle be allowed as "jungle?" Jungle DJs get ridiculed if they mix something like Squarepusher, Scud or Bukem with something like Konflict... It's just annoying. I'm not saying that DJs shouldn't play what they want to play... It's just that they usually don't. And, on top of that, jungle is completely run by two distributors (Vinyl and SRD) and they won't really carry anything unusual. -- :: atomly :: atomly@atomly.com | atomly@atdot.org | atomly@curiousnetworks.com http://www.atomly.com | http://www.mp3.com/atomly --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-05-08 20:45cutup> I've always believed that the main problem with jungle is that it's too > self-limiting.
From:
cutup
To:
Date:
Tue, 8 May 2001 16:45:01 -0400
Subject:
Re: [idm] "over" idm
permalink · <01ff01c0d7ff$c1031190$9f7c97d8@NCC1417>
quoted 7 lines I've always believed that the main problem with jungle is that it's too> I've always believed that the main problem with jungle is that it's too > self-limiting. You have guys like Grooverider and Goldie that want to > run the scene and make sure that the only stuff that gets popular is > what they like at the current moment. Jungle always has to move as one > big unit from one big thing to the next. There was even a post to the > Breakbeat Science message board once asking if it was OK to stop playing > Bad Company tracks. Jesus.
Very true. Jungle puts too many limits on its form. Its helped things to some degree through its history, but i think its hurting itself more now... Its pretty wack that this carries over to the states to such a huge degree. 95% of all jungle djs play strictly the allowed jungle. I guess its because that's what you can get ahold of.
quoted 4 lines When Laurent Ho, Maurizio and Plastikman are all techno, why can't the> When Laurent Ho, Maurizio and Plastikman are all techno, why can't the > variations in jungle be allowed as "jungle?" Jungle DJs get ridiculed > if they mix something like Squarepusher, Scud or Bukem with something > like Konflict... It's just annoying.
Yeah it is annoying. I don't even think people specifically get irritated, its just that it never, or almost never happens. I think there's alot of people who are down to hear stuff mixed together, they just aren't the diehard junglist. - cutups --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-05-08 22:20William Samuels<< I've always believed that the main problem with jungle is that it's too self-limiting.
From:
William Samuels
To:
Date:
Tue, 8 May 2001 15:20:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:
Re: [idm] "over" idm - Jungle
Reply to:
Re: [idm] "over" idm
permalink · <20010508222044.87448.qmail@web10004.mail.yahoo.com>
<< I've always believed that the main problem with jungle is that it's too self-limiting. >> A few things that have really stagnated dnb is the speed and the reliance on a 2 step beat. That has seriously limited what you can do musically. A lot of producers have jumped the bandwagon style-wise and are sticking to formulas to make money. However, there are some artists trying to make original and quality music. I think Certificate 18 still puts out some good music. Klute and Polar (K) are still awesome in my book. Good Looking and it's sublabels still look promising. Future Engineers... << You have guys like Grooverider and Goldie that want to run the scene and make sure that the only stuff that gets popular is what they like at the current moment. >> I don't know if they have that much power anymore. I do have to give props to Goldie and Grooverider for PAST releases on both of their labels. Metalheadz has released so much great music in the past, with regards to their future releases I am skeptical because they signed a really bad John B tune and Future Cut. << Jungle always has to move as one big unit from one big thing to the next. >> I'm not sure if I quite follow? Are you saying it gets stuck in one style? If so, I think the same is true of IDM. << There was even a post to the Breakbeat Science message board once asking if it was OK to stop playing Bad Company tracks. Jesus. >> That sounds like it was either a joke or a pathetic individual. I think it was a joke. The worse thing about Dnb these days is all the rehash shit going on, especially all the '92 rave techno samples. Oh and hoover bass... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-05-08 22:31Jordan KochOn Tue, 8 May 2001, William Samuels wrote: > The worse thing about Dnb these days is all t
From:
Jordan Koch
To:
William Samuels
Cc:
Date:
Tue, 8 May 2001 15:31:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:
Re: [idm] "over" idm - Jungle
Reply to:
Re: [idm] "over" idm - Jungle
permalink · <Pine.GSO.4.05.10105081523420.29242-100000@condo>
On Tue, 8 May 2001, William Samuels wrote:
quoted 3 lines The worse thing about Dnb these days is all the rehash> The worse thing about Dnb these days is all the rehash > shit going on, especially all the '92 rave techno > samples. Oh and hoover bass...
I guess, I, as a music consumer, am part of this problem. I absolutely love older jungle (not back to '92, say, back to '97) and I never got over hoover bass. Of course, Darkstep was my music of choice for quite some time and I wish it would come back. Something about that evil No-U-Turn era stuff makes my day. One trend, and artist, that I wish would *really* go away is the floor filler-jump up-crap that artists like Aphrodite tend to put out. (but that is just me) If I hear *one* more crappy NWA remix.... ........... Jordan Koch http://www.digitalnoise.net "I destroyed their digestion with a poisoned marsupial pie." -- The game 'Illusion of Gaia' --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-05-08 22:44atomly[Jordan Koch <kochj@digitalnoise.net>] > I guess, I, as a music consumer, am part of this
From:
atomly
To:
Date:
Tue, 8 May 2001 17:44:07 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] "over" idm - Jungle
Reply to:
Re: [idm] "over" idm - Jungle
permalink · <20010508174407.A20254@atomly.com>
[Jordan Koch <kochj@digitalnoise.net>]
quoted 8 lines I guess, I, as a music consumer, am part of this problem. I> I guess, I, as a music consumer, am part of this problem. I > absolutely love older jungle (not back to '92, say, back to '97) and I > never got over hoover bass. Of course, Darkstep was my music of > choice for quite some time and I wish it would come back. Something > about that evil No-U-Turn era stuff makes my day. One trend, and > artist, that I wish would *really* go away is the floor filler-jump > up-crap that artists like Aphrodite tend to put out. (but that is just > me) If I hear *one* more crappy NWA remix....
I'm a huge fan of 97 jungle... No-U-Turn and Metalheadz were amazing back then... Metalheadz actually has a release schedule now and No-U-Turn is supposed to be back on their feet now... They even have a website now (www.descendingangel.com) -- :: atomly :: atomly@atomly.com | atomly@atdot.org | atomly@curiousnetworks.com http://www.atomly.com | http://www.mp3.com/atomly --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-05-08 22:58William Samuels"The worse thing about Dnb these days is all the rehash shit going on, especially all the
From:
William Samuels
To:
Jordan Koch
Cc:
Date:
Tue, 8 May 2001 15:58:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:
Re: [idm] "over" idm - Jungle
Reply to:
Re: [idm] "over" idm - Jungle
permalink · <20010508225849.72798.qmail@web10006.mail.yahoo.com>
"The worse thing about Dnb these days is all the rehash shit going on, especially all the '92 rave techno samples. Oh and hoover bass..." < I guess, I, as a music consumer, am part of this problem. I absolutely love older jungle (not back to '92, say, back to '97) and I never got over hoover bass. > I love the old stuff too and I think I always will. It is quality material! 99% of the stuff coming out these days isn't. < Of course, Darkstep was my music of choice for quite some time and I wish it would come back. Something about that evil No-U-Turn era stuff makes my day. > No U-Turn rocks!! I'm not dissing the old stuff at all. By the way, you might like this interview with Nico. We had him down on KUCI a few years ago. Very nice guy! http://home.earthlink.net/~efrans/swope-transmissions/nico.html I think it's pretty lame when everyone jumps on regurgiate old rave sounds with 2 step beats. Future Cut making a drum n bass version of Human Resource's "Dominator", Dylan doing the same thing to Moby's "Go", etc. etc. And all of a sudden everyone's jumping the bandwagon and getting ravey. It's better to spin the real retro stuff like Dj Crystl, than the crap retroish stuff coming out. Dj Crystl needs to start producing again! < I wish would *really* go away is the floor filler-jump up-crap that artists like Aphrodite tend to put out. (but that is just me) If I hear *one* more crappy NWA remix.... > Wow, I didn't know anyone still played that stuff. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-05-10 23:12R. LimOn Tue, 8 May 2001, Jordan Koch wrote: > era stuff makes my day. One trend, and artist, th
From:
R. Lim
To:
Date:
Thu, 10 May 2001 19:12:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:
Re: [idm] "over" idm - Jungle
Reply to:
Re: [idm] "over" idm - Jungle
permalink · <Pine.BSI.4.05L.10105101852580.7092-100000@escape.com>
On Tue, 8 May 2001, Jordan Koch wrote:
quoted 3 lines era stuff makes my day. One trend, and artist, that I wish would *really*> era stuff makes my day. One trend, and artist, that I wish would *really* > go away is the floor filler-jump up-crap that artists like Aphrodite tend > to put out. (but that is just me) If I hear *one* more crappy NWA
I actually wish that this kind of material was more popular in clubs. I've heard some Mickey Finn tapes from the jungle/jump up days that are pretty deadly. Unfortunately, he seemed to fall in with the whole two-step crowd back when they were trying to nail the coffin shut. -rob --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-05-10 23:17Jordan KochOn Thu, 10 May 2001, R. Lim wrote: > > era stuff makes my day. One trend, and artist, that
From:
Jordan Koch
To:
R. Lim
Cc:
Date:
Thu, 10 May 2001 16:17:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:
Re: [idm] "over" idm - Jungle
Reply to:
Re: [idm] "over" idm - Jungle
permalink · <Pine.GSO.4.05.10105101613590.14635-100000@condo>
On Thu, 10 May 2001, R. Lim wrote:
quoted 8 lines era stuff makes my day. One trend, and artist, that I wish would *really*> > era stuff makes my day. One trend, and artist, that I wish would *really* > > go away is the floor filler-jump up-crap that artists like Aphrodite tend > > to put out. (but that is just me) If I hear *one* more crappy NWA > > I actually wish that this kind of material was more popular in clubs. I've > heard some Mickey Finn tapes from the jungle/jump up days that are pretty > deadly. Unfortunately, he seemed to fall in with the whole two-step crowd > back when they were trying to nail the coffin shut.
Oh, don't get me wrong. That (original) "Jungle Warfare" double cd (1 of the cds is mixed by Mickey Finn) was one of those cds that stayed in my cd player for months. I like good Jump-Up....but, there are a lot of horrible artists in the genre like Aphrodite.
quoted 1 line -rob> -rob
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2001-05-11 00:27R. LimOn Thu, 10 May 2001, Jordan Koch wrote: > Oh, don't get me wrong. That (original) "Jungle
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Re: [idm] "over" idm - Jungle
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On Thu, 10 May 2001, Jordan Koch wrote:
quoted 3 lines Oh, don't get me wrong. That (original) "Jungle Warfare" double cd (1 of> Oh, don't get me wrong. That (original) "Jungle Warfare" double cd (1 of > the cds is mixed by Mickey Finn) was one of those cds that stayed in my cd > player for months. I like good Jump-Up....but, there are a lot of
Yeah, that comp is alright, in spite of the fact that Moonshine's art department went into overdrive to come up with the stupidest "jungle" packaging imaginable. I actually prefer Darren Jay's CD from that set, but there's got to be something more barn-burning in that style out there on the digital format. Suggestions, anyone? -rob --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-05-11 00:43Jordan KochOn Thu, 10 May 2001, R. Lim wrote: > Yeah, that comp is alright, in spite of the fact that
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Jordan Koch
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Thu, 10 May 2001 17:43:24 -0700 (PDT)
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Re: [idm] "over" idm - Jungle
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Re: [idm] "over" idm - Jungle
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On Thu, 10 May 2001, R. Lim wrote:
quoted 5 lines Yeah, that comp is alright, in spite of the fact that Moonshine's art> Yeah, that comp is alright, in spite of the fact that Moonshine's art > department went into overdrive to come up with the stupidest "jungle" > packaging imaginable. I actually prefer Darren Jay's CD from that set, > but there's got to be something more barn-burning in that style out there > on the digital format. Suggestions, anyone?
I was stuck on RAW's mixtapes for a bit (can be bought at http://www.pureacidmixtapes.com) and, of course, DJ Hype has some nice tapes out (the Syrous tapes or the Meditation tape). They all have some nice jump-up selections to them (although not completely jump-up).
quoted 1 line -rob> -rob
........... Jordan Koch http://www.digitalnoise.net "I destroyed their digestion with a poisoned marsupial pie." -- The game 'Illusion of Gaia' --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-05-11 13:08Diana Pottshttp://www.rewind-records.com check out the tracks. d -----Original Message----- From: Jor
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RE: [idm] "over" idm - Jungle
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http://www.rewind-records.com check out the tracks. d -----Original Message----- From: Jordan Koch [mailto:kochj@digitalnoise.net] Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 8:43 PM To: R. Lim Cc: idm@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [idm] "over" idm - Jungle On Thu, 10 May 2001, R. Lim wrote:
quoted 5 lines Yeah, that comp is alright, in spite of the fact that Moonshine's art> Yeah, that comp is alright, in spite of the fact that Moonshine's art > department went into overdrive to come up with the stupidest "jungle" > packaging imaginable. I actually prefer Darren Jay's CD from that set, > but there's got to be something more barn-burning in that style out there > on the digital format. Suggestions, anyone?
I was stuck on RAW's mixtapes for a bit (can be bought at http://www.pureacidmixtapes.com) and, of course, DJ Hype has some nice tapes out (the Syrous tapes or the Meditation tape). They all have some nice jump-up selections to them (although not completely jump-up).
quoted 1 line -rob> -rob
........... Jordan Koch http://www.digitalnoise.net "I destroyed their digestion with a poisoned marsupial pie." -- The game 'Illusion of Gaia' --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-05-08 22:48atomly[William Samuels <w_technoir@yahoo.com>] > A few things that have really stagnated dnb is
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Tue, 8 May 2001 17:48:14 -0500
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Re: [idm] "over" idm - Jungle
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Re: [idm] "over" idm - Jungle
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[William Samuels <w_technoir@yahoo.com>]
quoted 4 lines A few things that have really stagnated dnb is the speed and the> A few things that have really stagnated dnb is the speed and the > reliance on a 2 step beat. That has seriously limited what you can do > musically. A lot of producers have jumped the bandwagon style-wise > and are sticking to formulas to make money.
I dunno, nobody's been really sticking to the two-step beat that much, really... Even really big producers like Konflict and Tech Itch really mix it up a lot... Plus we've learned from genres like house/techno that exploration of beats isn't really necessary to keep a genre interesting.
quoted 4 lines However, there are some artists trying to make original and quality> However, there are some artists trying to make original and quality > music. I think Certificate 18 still puts out some good music. Klute > and Polar (K) are still awesome in my book. Good Looking and it's > sublabels still look promising. Future Engineers...
I like some of the Cert 18 stuff and I wouldn't mind TeeBee & K so much if they wouldn't compress their breaks so much. :)
quoted 3 lines I don't know if they have that much power anymore. I do have to give> I don't know if they have that much power anymore. I do have to give > props to Goldie and Grooverider for PAST releases on both of their > labels.
Yea, they were both very influential, but it's just sad that they completely ran the scene like they did.
quoted 3 lines Metalheadz has released so much great music in the past, with regards> Metalheadz has released so much great music in the past, with regards > to their future releases I am skeptical because they signed a really > bad John B tune and Future Cut.
Platinum Breakz is so amazing that Metalheadz can't really do any wrong in my book... It's mostly Doc Scott that does it for me, though. Speaking of which, how do you like Beachdrifta?
quoted 6 lines << Jungle always has to move as one big unit from one> << Jungle always has to move as one big unit from one > big thing to the next. >> > > I'm not sure if I quite follow? Are you saying it gets > stuck in one style? If so, I think the same is true > of IDM.
I'm saying that jungle only means one thing at any point in time... subgenres can't really co-exist. It's just annoying. -- :: atomly :: atomly@atomly.com | atomly@atdot.org | atomly@curiousnetworks.com http://www.atomly.com | http://www.mp3.com/atomly --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-05-08 22:59Jordan KochOn Tue, 8 May 2001, atomly wrote: > I'm saying that jungle only means one thing at any poi
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Jordan Koch
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atomly
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Tue, 8 May 2001 15:59:07 -0700 (PDT)
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Re: [idm] "over" idm - Jungle
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Re: [idm] "over" idm - Jungle
permalink · <Pine.GSO.4.05.10105081551030.29242-100000@condo>
On Tue, 8 May 2001, atomly wrote:
quoted 2 lines I'm saying that jungle only means one thing at any point in time...> I'm saying that jungle only means one thing at any point in time... > subgenres can't really co-exist. It's just annoying.
I don't know if I can really agree with that. There will always be a thriving, dedicated group of people who are into Ragga or Driftin'. Think of the Congo Natty releases from a bit ago, even major non-Ragga djs like Hype were putting it in their sets. While the main core of Jungle will always be stuck on 'rave friendly' jump up/hardstep (coming from my Los Angeles view of the scene), there is room for a healthy group of sub-sub-genres. 'Kinda reminds me of hardcore, everyone out here (those that are out here, LA doesn't exactly have a hardcore scene anymore) is stuck on the Gabber side of things but there still is a decent community behind breakcore.
quoted 2 lines --> -- > :: atomly ::
........... Jordan Koch http://www.digitalnoise.net "I destroyed their digestion with a poisoned marsupial pie." -- The game 'Illusion of Gaia' --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-05-08 23:25William Samuels--- atomly <atomly@atomly.com> wrote: < I dunno, nobody's been really sticking to the two-
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atomly ,
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Re: [idm] "over" idm - Jungle
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--- atomly <atomly@atomly.com> wrote: < I dunno, nobody's been really sticking to the two-step beat that much, really... Even really big producers like Konflict and Tech Itch really mix it up a lot... > Technical Itch usually makes really good tracks. He uses tons of filters and has some pretty cool sounds. I haven't heard anything from him in a while. I still hear more 2 step than anything else in the shops. Pieter K has some really good tunes, it's hard to say when his LP will be coming out.
quoted 9 lines I don't know if they have that much power anymore.> > I don't know if they have that much power anymore. > I do have to give > > props to Goldie and Grooverider for PAST releases > on both of their > > labels. > > Yea, they were both very influential, but it's just > sad that they > completely ran the scene like they did.
Whether they ran it, Rob Playford or others, it doesn't really matter to me, because the music that was coming out then was really good.
quoted 1 line Speaking of which, how do you like Beachdrifta?> Speaking of which, how do you like Beachdrifta?
Very good. I use to play the hell out of it on my show. Recommended!!
quoted 4 lines I'm saying that jungle only means one thing at any> I'm saying that jungle only means one thing at any > point in time... > subgenres can't really co-exist. It's just > annoying.
That's not true. There have always been different camps with different styles. Good Looking has always kept their focus. Photek (before Solaris) always had his own unique style. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-05-09 00:12DougOn Tue, 8 May 2001, atomly wrote: > Plus we've learned from genres like house/techno that
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Doug
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atomly
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Re: [idm] "over" idm - Jungle
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On Tue, 8 May 2001, atomly wrote:
quoted 2 lines Plus we've learned from genres like house/techno that exploration of> Plus we've learned from genres like house/techno that exploration of > beats isn't really necessary to keep a genre interesting.
I agree with this to a certain extent, but the problem for me is that Jungle is (or was rather) all about the beats. I'm not sure about the rest of you, but the first time I heard jungle I was in awe of the beats, the rest of it was just fluff to keep things interesting. I remeber hearing Timeless in 95 and just thinking "What the fuck is going on? How are they doing this?" When I hear (most) Jungle now I think "What the fuck is going on? Why are they still doing this?" Just my 2 cents that no one really asked for. Doug --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-05-09 01:13GilAnd see, what made me really click with d'n'b was the tech step stuff. Torque is a classic
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And see, what made me really click with d'n'b was the tech step stuff. Torque is a classic release because it's all about the synths and textures and when i listened to it through techno-loving ears, it was brilliant. I never understood why people thought jungle was all that b/c of the "SYNCOPATED" rhythms. It had some inventiveness in the begining for sure, but there was no way to keep the beats ultra complex and keep the attention of the dance floor. What squarepusher et al. did was phenomenal but very separate from true dancefloor tunes. Tho i'm sure all the heads on this list who dig d'n'b would go nuts to heard the crazy shit dropped in the middle of a more traditional dancefloor set. so anyway... :) -Gil Klute in DC next week! On Tue, 8 May 2001, Doug wrote:
quoted 25 lines On Tue, 8 May 2001, atomly wrote:> On Tue, 8 May 2001, atomly wrote: > > > Plus we've learned from genres like house/techno that exploration of > > beats isn't really necessary to keep a genre interesting. > > I agree with this to a certain extent, but the problem for me is that > Jungle is (or was rather) all about the beats. > > I'm not sure about the rest of you, but the first time I heard jungle I > was in awe of the beats, the rest of it was just fluff to keep things > interesting. I remeber hearing Timeless in 95 and just thinking "What the > fuck is going on? How are they doing this?" > > When I hear (most) Jungle now I think "What the fuck is going on? Why are > they still doing this?" > > Just my 2 cents that no one really asked for. > > Doug > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >
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2001-05-09 03:37Forward Productionwell as far as being 'over' things... there's a whole angle of it that has to do with one'
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Forward Production
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Tue, 8 May 2001 23:37:25 -0400
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Re: [idm] "over" idm
permalink · <p04320400b71e5fa945ee@[192.168.2.47]>
well as far as being 'over' things... there's a whole angle of it that has to do with one's attention span and other dodgey phenomenon. fascination running its course. for instance. to give an example having little to do with new developments or trends: at one point, nothing sounded as absolutely dead-on-what-I-wanted-to hear as Beethoven. The piano sonatas or the string quartets. unbelieveable. perfect. time went by...stopped working for me completely. his incredibly stodgy rhythmic sense. his strangely limited sense of melody. i'd fallen out of love. we needed some time apart anyway. so yeah...ya know...one day you wake up, and that big sexy hunk of minimal techno lying by your side just doesn't do it for ya...there's no point in pretending...it's over. for now. but admit it: it's you that's changed. k -- .................................... Forward Newspaper / Production Dept. 212 889-8200 ext.1477 fax: 212 684-3949 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-05-09 03:49Adam PiontekBravo! > -----Original Message----- > From: Forward Production [mailto:production@forward.
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Adam Piontek
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Inconvenient Dark Matter
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Tue, 8 May 2001 23:49:03 -0400
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RE: [idm] "over" idm
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Re: [idm] "over" idm
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Bravo!
quoted 50 lines -----Original Message-----> -----Original Message----- > From: Forward Production [mailto:production@forward.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 11:37 PM > To: idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: Re: [idm] "over" idm > > > > well > > as far as being 'over' things... > > there's a whole angle of it that has to do with one's attention span > and other dodgey phenomenon. fascination running its course. > > for instance. to give an example having little to do with new > developments or trends: > > at one point, nothing sounded as absolutely dead-on-what-I-wanted-to > hear as Beethoven. The piano sonatas or the string quartets. > unbelieveable. perfect. time went by...stopped working for me > completely. his incredibly stodgy rhythmic sense. his strangely > limited sense of melody. i'd fallen out of love. we needed some time > apart anyway. > > so yeah...ya know...one day you wake up, and that big sexy hunk of > minimal techno lying by your side just doesn't do it for ya...there's > no point in pretending...it's over. for now. > > but admit it: it's you that's changed. > > k > -- > > > > > > > > > .................................... > Forward Newspaper / Production Dept. > 212 889-8200 ext.1477 > fax: 212 684-3949 > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >
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2001-05-09 04:32Peter Schrockyeah, it seems a lot of ppl on this list are probably going through some growing pains wit
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Peter Schrock
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anyone and everyone and
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Tue, 08 May 2001 21:32:11 -0700
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Re: [idm] "over" idm
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Re: [idm] "over" idm
permalink · <B71E1658.11DA%pachinko74@mac.com>
yeah, it seems a lot of ppl on this list are probably going through some growing pains with IDM. I kept listening then leaving, listening, then leaving. I will probably grow tired of IDM eventually as well, but I don't think it will be accredited to IDM changing, cause it always will, that is the nature of it. I couldn't stand EP7-Autechre, or I Care Cause You Do-Aphex Twin, or Frequency Hunt-Current Value when they first came out, now it is some of my most influential suff. Sometimes we just need a break, that is why I still listen to bands like Tool, Smashing Pumpkins, Barkmarket, Radiohead, Meshuggah, Slayer, Stravinsky, Shostakovich,etc. on 5/8/01 8:37 PM, Forward Production at production@forward.com wrote:
quoted 25 lines well> > well > > as far as being 'over' things... > > there's a whole angle of it that has to do with one's attention span > and other dodgey phenomenon. fascination running its course. > > for instance. to give an example having little to do with new > developments or trends: > > at one point, nothing sounded as absolutely dead-on-what-I-wanted-to > hear as Beethoven. The piano sonatas or the string quartets. > unbelieveable. perfect. time went by...stopped working for me > completely. his incredibly stodgy rhythmic sense. his strangely > limited sense of melody. i'd fallen out of love. we needed some time > apart anyway. > > so yeah...ya know...one day you wake up, and that big sexy hunk of > minimal techno lying by your side just doesn't do it for ya...there's > no point in pretending...it's over. for now. > > but admit it: it's you that's changed. > > k
Peter "Pachinko" Ý - http://www.mp3.com/pachinko - --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-05-09 16:36atomly[Peter Schrock <pachinko74@mac.com>] > Tool, Smashing Pumpkins, Radiohead, Meshuggah, Slay
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atomly
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Wed, 9 May 2001 11:36:37 -0500
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Re: [idm] "over" idm
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Re: [idm] "over" idm
permalink · <20010509113637.D21572@atomly.com>
[Peter Schrock <pachinko74@mac.com>]
quoted 1 line Tool, Smashing Pumpkins, Radiohead, Meshuggah, Slayer,> Tool, Smashing Pumpkins, Radiohead, Meshuggah, Slayer,
Hell yea. np - Meshuggah - Future Breed Machine -- :: atomly :: atomly@atomly.com | atomly@atdot.org | atomly@curiousnetworks.com http://www.atomly.com | http://www.mp3.com/atomly --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-05-09 10:45Tom Pereira[atomly <atomly@atomly.com>] >[cutup <cutup@andythepooh.com>] >>i kind of feel the same wa
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Tom Pereira
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Date:
Wed, 09 May 2001 11:45:18 +0100
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Re: [idm] "over" idm
permalink · <F1176sKBEr8pkpLkTgb00000b38@hotmail.com>
[atomly <atomly@atomly.com>]
quoted 6 lines [cutup <cutup@andythepooh.com>]>[cutup <cutup@andythepooh.com>] >>i kind of feel the same way, but i can't tell if its just that i'm >>hyper sensitive to what new music is coming out. it seems hard to >>imagine what direction that jungle will go from here without really >>smashing up the limited forms its governed by....i could imagine >>it...i just can't imagine it happening.
Jungle has more potential than many other genres, as I see it. For a few years everyone jumped on a bit of a techstep industrial sweeps bandwaggon and forgot about the ragga, but there was always some jazzy and funky stuff being produced at the same time, ticking away. You can go in so many directions with it, I see it as less formulaic a structure than most dance music. The fact that plug and tobin doesn't fit too well into a conventional dancefloor set may keep such treats from a wider audience but I would hardly blame a DJ for this. There is always going to be some drum and bass you listen to almost exclusively at home. The fact that such tunes can work very well on a dancefloor as well is one of the reasons I love this music, but finding a dj that deals in it may be tricky, I admit. I think a renaissance is on the way. Producers are starting to make garage on the side, and seeing it sell, giving them ideas. They are bringing fun back to jungle, and some vocals, making it more accessible. That J Majik vocal track tore up the dancefloors. Look at the success of live drum and bass outfits, too; Kosheen are doing great things. Life after breakbeat era, mmm. I think the scene has realised it has been up it's own arse for quite some time and has to lighten up, otherwise it will lose out all commercial success to garage. The raves are still big, as they always have been, but to sell records (and more importantly get some ladies into those darkened dancing dens) things need to get a bit more accessible. This needn't mean watering down the rude. I think the basslines can be fatter than ever and people will love it. It just needs a bit of swing.
quoted 6 lines i think its more time for the limits of jungle to be broken down and>>i think its more time for the limits of jungle to be broken down and >>evolved....it already has but it should continue in many more ways.... >I've always believed that the main problem with jungle is that it's too >self-limiting. You have guys like Grooverider and Goldie that want to >run the scene and make sure that the only stuff that gets popular is >what they like at the current moment.
I don't think that's true, and if it ever was, it is changing radically. The scene as a whole has decided it wants a comeback and everyone is working together to progress things. There will always be an elite of old school superstar djs who might influence the tastes of bedroom djs. But there is so much more being produced these days and djs are enthusiastic about new artists, it is less cliquey. The support of international djs in the scene is really opening doors, too.
quoted 1 line Jungle always has to move as one big unit from one big thing to the >next.>Jungle always has to move as one big unit from one big thing to the >next.
Only because the scene shrunk. Many djs got hold of the same tunes, making it appear a bit stagnant, but I think things are changing, so much more is coming out these days. And there has always been a difference between a full cycle set, a bukem set, a ed rush set and a micky finn set, all going on at the same time, so I would argue that the scene has been able to stay relatively diverse.
quoted 4 lines When Laurent Ho, Maurizio and Plastikman are all techno, why can't the>When Laurent Ho, Maurizio and Plastikman are all techno, why can't the >variations in jungle be allowed as "jungle?" Jungle DJs get ridiculed >if they mix something like Squarepusher, Scud or Bukem with something >like Konflict... It's just annoying.
I'm not sure they would get ridiculed, it simply might not work at a big fat rave. One of the reasons I like drum and bass is the diversity of moods it can put me in, all within the same apparent genre. It doens't always work to mood shift in a dj set, so people tend to avoid it. However, if someone can mix bad co. into big bud without killing the groove a bit then more power to them. Just some badly typed thoughts. Tata, Tom. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org