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Ohhh, no... another eternal thread just about to begin... 8) In a simple language...Vinyls are an analogue source of music which makes it more closer to the original sound than digital ones like CDs (no conversion of analogue sound stream into digital "ones and zeros" - hence no loss of sound information). Vinyls have more natural, deep and atmospheric sound than CDs though have much worse noise/signal ratio and have clicks and bops in the surface... Digitalisation of sound did not manage to level with natural sound of vinyl yet. That's why many audiophiles prefer vinyls over cds.... Alien np. MD - Appelsap

quoted 11 lines -----Original Message-----

> -----Original Message----- > From: s k [mailto:sicklecellboy@hotmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 3:56 PM > To: idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: [idm] vinyl? > > > Excuse my ignorance, but i have a kind of simple question. Why > is so much released on vinyl? Is it simply for the DJs? If it's > not just for the DJs, why not release only on cd? Just curious >

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On Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 04:10:42PM +0200, Konstantin Minko uttered:

quoted 8 lines In a simple language...Vinyls are an analogue source of music which makes it

> In a simple language...Vinyls are an analogue source of music which makes it > more closer to the original sound than digital ones like CDs (no conversion > of analogue sound stream into digital "ones and zeros" - hence no loss of > sound information). Vinyls have more natural, deep and atmospheric sound > than CDs though have much worse noise/signal ratio and have clicks and bops > in the surface... Digitalisation of sound did not manage to level with > natural sound of vinyl yet. That's why many audiophiles prefer vinyls over > cds....

Bollocks! Sure vinyl doesn't get converted to digital but you pay for that in distortion. Well-mastered, fresh, unscratched vinyl is a joy to listen to on high-end sound gear. Unless your sound system cost in the order of tens of thousands, you won't pick the difference. Besides, you can't shove a bunch of vinyl in your bag and listen to it at work, can you :P Pleased to say I've never owned a record player in my life. (Unless you count the gramophone I bought in a market for $2 when I was a kid.) -- Rev Simon Rumble Current physical location: London, UK simon@rumble.net http://www.rumble.net The superior man understands what is right; the inferior man understands what will sell. -- Confucius --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 27 lines On Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 04:10:42PM +0200, Konstantin Minko uttered:

>On Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 04:10:42PM +0200, Konstantin Minko uttered: > > > In a simple language...Vinyls are an analogue source of music > which makes it > > more closer to the original sound than digital ones like CDs > (no conversion > > of analogue sound stream into digital "ones and zeros" - hence > no loss of > > sound information). Vinyls have more natural, deep and atmospheric sound > > than CDs though have much worse noise/signal ratio and have > clicks and bops > > in the surface... Digitalisation of sound did not manage to level with > > natural sound of vinyl yet. That's why many audiophiles prefer > vinyls over > > cds.... > > Bollocks! Sure vinyl doesn't get converted to digital but you pay for > that in distortion. Well-mastered, fresh, unscratched vinyl is a joy > to listen to on high-end sound gear. Unless your sound system cost in > the order of tens of thousands, you won't pick the difference. > > Besides, you can't shove a bunch of vinyl in your bag and listen to it > at work, can you :P > > Pleased to say I've never owned a record player in my life. (Unless > you count the gramophone I bought in a market for $2 when I was a kid.) >

Hmm. Why then I was able to hear the difference even on the cheap 200$ record player with ordinary Yamaha 300$ amplifier and more than ordinary Sony speakers 300$ at my friends house all the time? I must be kind of special.. ;) btw. I'm planning to by myself one. Could anyone give me some good advice on what to seek in 500-1000$ range? Alien --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 04:34:26PM +0200, Konstantin Minko uttered:

quoted 4 lines Hmm. Why then I was able to hear the difference even on the cheap 200$

> Hmm. Why then I was able to hear the difference even on the cheap 200$ > record player with ordinary Yamaha 300$ amplifier and more than ordinary > Sony speakers 300$ at my friends house all the time? I must be kind of > special.. ;)

Because vinyl's physical properties boost the high end making it sound "warmer". You can get the same effect with a decent graphic equaliser in line between your CD player and amp.

quoted 2 lines btw. I'm planning to by myself one. Could anyone give me some good advice on

> btw. I'm planning to by myself one. Could anyone give me some good advice on > what to seek in 500-1000$ range?

Tonearm and stylus is everything, from what I hear. PS: Could you quote something less than the entire message? -- Rev Simon Rumble Current physical location: London, UK simon@rumble.net http://www.rumble.net A drama critic is a person who surprises a playwright by informing him what he meant. -- Wilson Mizner --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

At 02:45 PM 2/28/2001 +0000, you wrote:

quoted 10 lines On Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 04:34:26PM +0200, Konstantin Minko uttered:

>On Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 04:34:26PM +0200, Konstantin Minko uttered: > > > Hmm. Why then I was able to hear the difference even on the cheap 200$ > > record player with ordinary Yamaha 300$ amplifier and more than ordinary > > Sony speakers 300$ at my friends house all the time? I must be kind of > > special.. ;) > >Because vinyl's physical properties boost the high end making it sound >"warmer". You can get the same effect with a decent graphic equaliser >in line between your CD player and amp.

Plus a little bit of the good ol' placebo effect. mm placebos..

quoted 5 lines btw. I'm planning to by myself one. Could anyone give me some good

> > btw. I'm planning to by myself one. Could anyone give me some good > advice on > > what to seek in 500-1000$ range? > >Tonearm and stylus is everything, from what I hear.

cartridge too (or did you include that in stylus?). Remember that the original argument was "why release this stuff on vinyl?" not "which is better?" So, to answer the original question - because most of the people who release music aren't worried about charting, and think it's kinda cool to get a slab o' wax. It's a personal preference on the part of the artist, 8 times out of 10. Plus, vinyl looks more impressive stacked up :) So, to rehash the thread for the bajillionth time - *Personal**Preference* cheers, /derek --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

WARP 82: v/a: ROUTINE WAP 147: Squarepusher: My Red Hot Car when and what.... -- -- Jeremy Axon www.objectools.com 243 College St. Toronto, Ontario, Canada M5T 1R5 416.955.0856 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I just wanted to point this out in case it got lost: On Tue, 27 Feb 2001, EggyToast wrote:

quoted 6 lines Remember that the original argument was "why release this stuff on vinyl?"

> Remember that the original argument was "why release this stuff on vinyl?" > not "which is better?" So, to answer the original question - because most > of the people who release music aren't worried about charting, and think > it's kinda cool to get a slab o' wax. It's a personal preference on the > part of the artist, 8 times out of 10. >

it's a fetish thing. It's vinyl, it's cool. It makes it more exclusive. vinyl has more personality, there's an etching on the run out, and there's the chance that if you don't treat it carefully enough it can easily be ruined. I can go on.. Of course now that my vinyl collection has increased 5 fold I dread moving... Anyway I record all my vinyl to CD for archival/ease of use purposes. -Gil --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 10 lines On Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 04:34:26PM +0200, Konstantin Minko uttered:

> On Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 04:34:26PM +0200, Konstantin Minko uttered: > > > Hmm. Why then I was able to hear the difference even on the cheap 200$ > > record player with ordinary Yamaha 300$ amplifier and more than ordinary > > Sony speakers 300$ at my friends house all the time? I must be kind of > > special.. ;) > > Because vinyl's physical properties boost the high end making it sound > "warmer". You can get the same effect with a decent graphic equaliser > in line between your CD player and amp.

No. I do not use equalizers at all. They just distort the sound in the most unbearable ways. There is a difference between clean and manupulated sound. I prefer clean one. Don't know about you...

quoted 5 lines btw. I'm planning to by myself one. Could anyone give me some

> > btw. I'm planning to by myself one. Could anyone give me some > good advice on > > what to seek in 500-1000$ range? > > Tonearm and stylus is everything, from what I hear.

Ahem. I meant to ask what kind of records players (brands, models) are worth checking out in the range between 500-1000$.... Could you give less stupid advices?

quoted 1 line PS: Could you quote something less than the entire message?

> PS: Could you quote something less than the entire message?

Alien np. Lowfish "Fear not the snow..." --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Konstantin,

quoted 2 lines Ahem. I meant to ask what kind of records players (brands, models) are worth

> Ahem. I meant to ask what kind of records players (brands, models) are worth > checking out in the range between 500-1000$

for home decks in this price range, audiophiles prefer... rega planar 3 (the new 2000 version) which is a big improvement over previous version apparently. it will cost about $1000, that's with a decent cartridge in the $250 range. it comes with an excellent tonearm from what i've read. i don't have one but i hope pick one up one day. for $500 i think the Music Hall MMF-5 is supposed to be pretty good Jeff --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

don't mean to be picky, but can we keep it to 'vinyl', not plural 'vinyls' i.e. "many people prefer vinyl to cd's" vinyl is a material, not an individual product like a cd is. singular: vinyl plural: vinyl singular: cd plural: cd's you may hate me now, but you'll thank me one day. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Its a plot by petroleum manufacturers to get you hooked on oil and it's so you can show off to yer mates: "look here's me new rekkid" - you "wow you're cool!" - yer mates cos everybody's got CDs nowadays -i --- s k <sicklecellboy@hotmail.com> wrote:

quoted 3 lines Excuse my ignorance, but i have a kind of simple question. Why is so much

> Excuse my ignorance, but i have a kind of simple question. Why is so much > released on vinyl? Is it simply for the DJs? If it's not just for the DJs, > why not release only on cd? Just curious

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On Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 09:32:31AM -0800, i wrote:

quoted 2 lines Its a plot by petroleum manufacturers to get you hooked on oil and

> Its a plot by petroleum manufacturers to get you hooked on oil and > it's so you can show off to yer mates:

CDs are made from petroleum. -- :: atomly :: atomly@atomly.com | atomly@atdot.org | atomly@curiousnetworks.com http://www.atomly.com | http://www.mp3.com/atomly --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Konstantin Minko wrote:

quoted 13 lines Ohhh, no... another eternal thread just about to begin... 8)

> Ohhh, no... another eternal thread just about to begin... 8) > > In a simple language...Vinyls are an analogue source of music which makes it > more closer to the original sound than digital ones like CDs (no conversion > of analogue sound stream into digital "ones and zeros" - hence no loss of > sound information). Vinyls have more natural, deep and atmospheric sound > than CDs though have much worse noise/signal ratio and have clicks and bops > in the surface... Digitalisation of sound did not manage to level with > natural sound of vinyl yet. That's why many audiophiles prefer vinyls over > cds.... > > Alien >

This doesn't make much sense when it comes to electronic music, does it ? I mean a lot of electronic music has never been analogue, and therefore CDs must be the ideal media for it ? -stefan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 34 lines -----Original Message-----

> -----Original Message----- > From: Stefan Mylleager [mailto:stefan@kiloo.dk] > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 4:18 PM > To: idm-list > Subject: Re: [idm] vinyl? > > Konstantin Minko wrote: > > > Ohhh, no... another eternal thread just about to begin... 8) > > > > In a simple language...Vinyls are an analogue source of music > which makes it > > more closer to the original sound than digital ones like CDs > (no conversion > > of analogue sound stream into digital "ones and zeros" - hence > no loss of > > sound information). Vinyls have more natural, deep and atmospheric sound > > than CDs though have much worse noise/signal ratio and have > clicks and bops > > in the surface... Digitalisation of sound did not manage to level with > > natural sound of vinyl yet. That's why many audiophiles prefer > vinyls over > > cds.... > > > > Alien > > > > This doesn't make much sense when it comes to electronic music, > does it ? I mean > a lot of electronic music has never been analogue, and therefore > CDs must be the > ideal media for it ? > > -stefan

IMHO With all due respect I think it does have sense for electronic music as well since the production, mixing and mastering of the records is done in much superior quality than the one that you have with CDs (CDs provide only 16 bit, 44Khz quality). Please correct me if I'm wrong on this. Alien

quoted 6 lines ---------------------------------------------------------------------

> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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Nooooooooooooo!!!!!!! Not this (again). Please. s k wrote:

quoted 1 line Excuse my ignorance, but i have a kind of simple question. Why is so much released on viny

> Excuse my ignorance, but i have a kind of simple question. Why is so much released on vinyl? Is it simply for the DJs? If it's not just for the DJs, why not release only on cd? Just curious

-- jeff ?/~THINK OUTSIDE OF YOUR SITCOM~\! ICQ904008 (but I'm never on) ----> http://www.freedonation.com (costs you nothing. try it) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I hate to add to this thread, but as long as you're being picky, it should be "CD" for the singular, "CDs" for the plural. Apostrophes denote possession rather than pluralization. Jacob -----Original Message----- singular: cd plural: cd's -- 5 years of digital art, techno music, and poetry http://www.gridface.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I love being picky, although I rarely do so in public. Actually, CD's would be correct, since CD is an acronym, and to denote that "isc" part of "discs" is missing, you would use an apostrophe to replace the missing words. Much like IDM would be IDM's, although if the acronym becomes a word, the apostrophe is usually dropped (so it'd just be idms, like scubas or something) Of course, then it comes down to a matter of style, where some professions prefer using "incorrect" spelling and grammar for various purposes (for example, in a series of 3 or more, you're supposed to put a comma before the last "and," yet in journalism, that last comma is regularly left out (so, it's supposed to be Aphex, Autechre, and BoC, instead of Aphex, Autechre and BoC, although a journalist would use the latter)). On 28 Feb 2001, jacob@gridface.com wrote:

quoted 1 line I hate to add to this thread, but as long as you're being picky, it

> I hate to add to this thread, but as long as you're being picky, it

should

quoted 22 lines be "CD" for the singular, "CDs" for the plural. Apostrophes denote

> be "CD" for the singular, "CDs" for the plural. Apostrophes denote > possession rather than pluralization. > > Jacob > > > -----Original Message----- > > singular: cd > plural: cd's > > > -- > 5 years of digital art, techno music, and poetry > http://www.gridface.com/ > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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quoted 2 lines example, in a series of 3 or more, you're supposed to put a comma before

>example, in a series of 3 or more, you're supposed to put a comma before >the last "and," yet in journalism, that last comma is regularly left out

actually, that last comma has been said to be quite unnecessary in today's grammar. by who (or is it "whom"?)? college professors and other academic type peoples. i agree. jeff --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Hi,

quoted 2 lines singular: cd

>singular: cd >plural: cd's

singular: cd plural: cds ..so ner, I am king of pedant mountain. Tata, Tom. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Tom Pereira wrote:

quoted 7 lines singular: cd

> >singular: cd > >plural: cd's > > singular: cd > plural: cds > > ..so ner, I am king of pedant mountain.

Unless it was plurar possessive: cd's

quoted 2 lines Tata,

> Tata, > Tom.

---------- Jordan Koch http://www.digitalnoise.net "Remember kids, those baggy pants and Organic Plate/Titanium Chainmail Composite Armor Battlesuit may be the "in" thing now, but it won't be so "cool" when you're in jail." - http://www.geocities.com/snackrelatedmishap/main.html --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 6 lines singular: cd

> > >singular: cd > > >plural: cd's > > singular: cd > > plural: cds > > Unless it was plurar possessive: cd's

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that be: My cds have scratches. My cds' scratches annoy the fuck out of me. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Lukas Bergstrom wrote:

quoted 11 lines singular: cd

> > > >singular: cd > > > >plural: cd's > > > singular: cd > > > plural: cds > > > > Unless it was plurar possessive: cd's > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that be: > > My cds have scratches. > My cds' scratches annoy the fuck out of me.

Yeah, yeah, details. :) Don't mind me, I cannot even spell 'plural' right. ;p ---------- Jordan Koch http://www.digitalnoise.net "Remember kids, those baggy pants and Organic Plate/Titanium Chainmail Composite Armor Battlesuit may be the "in" thing now, but it won't be so "cool" when you're in jail." - http://www.geocities.com/snackrelatedmishap/main.html --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

More for this rant: Does it really matter that some people like to use Analogue and others Digital. I myself don't think my ears can always pick out variation. Then again I have been standing next to 1000 watt speakers for Eons. Vinyl looks nicer, the cover, the smell and the feel, however digital is a more convenient format and it doesn't scratch so easily(perhaps no remember the early sales pitch for CD's!!!). I think good rate MP3(192kbs+) makes all this irrelevant as I'm in the process of off loading all my unplayed Vinyl and CD's and just cramming my PC and HD with Mp3's. Infact I have far more MP3's than I could ever have afford to buy. Am I going music mad? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordan Koch" <kochj@digitalnoise.net> To: "Tom Pereira" <tompereira@hotmail.com> Cc: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 6:53 PM Subject: RE: [idm] vinyl?

quoted 29 lines On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Tom Pereira wrote:

> On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Tom Pereira wrote: > > > >singular: cd > > >plural: cd's > > > > singular: cd > > plural: cds > > > > ..so ner, I am king of pedant mountain. > > Unless it was plurar possessive: cd's > > > > Tata, > > Tom. > ---------- > Jordan Koch > http://www.digitalnoise.net > "Remember kids, those baggy pants and Organic Plate/Titanium Chainmail > Composite Armor Battlesuit may be the "in" thing now, but it won't be so > "cool" when you're in jail." - > http://www.geocities.com/snackrelatedmishap/main.html > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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quoted 8 lines singular: cd

> > > >singular: cd > > > >plural: cd's > > > singular: cd > > > plural: cds > > Unless it was plurar possessive: cd's > Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that be: > My cds have scratches. > My cds' scratches annoy the fuck out of me.

hey guys, CDS NUTS -rk --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 02:04:24PM -0500, Rjyan Kidwell wrote:

quoted 1 line CDS NUTS

> CDS NUTS

ABCD nuts MNO nuts SARCMPN -- :: atomly :: atomly@atomly.com | atomly@atdot.org | atomly@curiousnetworks.com http://www.atomly.com | http://www.mp3.com/atomly --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

CDs recorded properly have no noise/signal ratio/clicks/bops... most of the time thats cause the recordcompagny recorded it too loud... Vinyl just hazz something... and it izz more difficult to copy it with your cdr... most cdplayerz have no pitchcontrol, so you can't *play* with cds... Ohhh, no... another eternal thread just about to begin... 8) In a simple language...Vinyls are an analogue source of music which makes it more closer to the original sound than digital ones like CDs (no conversion of analogue sound stream into digital "ones and zeros" - hence no loss of sound information). Vinyls have more natural, deep and atmospheric sound than CDs though have much worse noise/signal ratio and have clicks and bops in the surface... Digitalisation of sound did not manage to level with natural sound of vinyl yet. That's why many audiophiles prefer vinyls over cds.... Alien np. MD - Appelsap

quoted 8 lines -----Original Message-----

> -----Original Message----- > From: s k [mailto:sicklecellboy@hotmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 3:56 PM > To: idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: [idm] vinyl? > > > Excuse my ignorance, but i have a kind of simple question.

Why

quoted 1 line is so much released on vinyl? Is it simply for the DJs?

> is so much released on vinyl? Is it simply for the DJs?

If it's

quoted 1 line not just for the DJs, why not release only on cd? Just

> not just for the DJs, why not release only on cd? Just

curious

quoted 1 line

>

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Please lets not start this thread again. Its like arguing over which sexual position is best. Rob component _________________________ www.componentrecords.com _________________________ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 10 lines singular: cd

> > > > >singular: cd > > > > >plural: cd's > > > > singular: cd > > > > plural: cds > > > Unless it was plurar possessive: cd's > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that be: > > My cds have scratches. > > My cds' scratches annoy the fuck out of me. > Yeah, yeah, details. :) Don't mind me, I cannot even spell 'plural' > right. ;p

oh boy. well thanks everyone. I'm new to the list and I appreciate most of the feedback ^_^ And to answer the question of how old i am, i'm 17. should explain a bunch --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org