IDM Mailing Archive

quoted 1 line people like a lot of art made by assholes

>people like a lot of art made by assholes

thats why i try to never get in contact with the artists themselves would hate to have my opinion of their music or what ever disturbed by my opinion of the person who created it sometimes like to think of the art and the artist as two seperate entities although the couple of artists i have talked to have seemed to be very nice, amiable persons, bob log III and techno animal coming to mind (btw, does anyone have an email or snail mail contact for the latter, have a question to ask them) thanks in advance brian _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Wed, 13 Sep 2000, me makes you wrote:

quoted 2 lines the couple of artists i have talked to have seemed to be very nice,

> the couple of artists i have talked to have seemed to be very nice, > amiable persons, bob log III and techno animal coming to mind

Yeah, I think there are nice people making music. And I'm always interested in promoting the work of people who I like as people when they do good work. Stewart Walker is a great guy. Kit Clayton is very nice, and hilarious to boot. Alan Oldham (DJ T1000) is a sweetheart. And Terrence Parker's picture should be in the dictionary next to the definition of nice guy. In the process of working club nights I've met several people I don't care for, but I'd rather dwell on the positive. I'll say that cocaine can turn people into complete monsters and leave it at that. As for Miles Davis ... well not to excuse anything he did during his life, but he was a very troubled individual who had serious problems dealing with women, drugs and alcohol. But he was also an incredibly focused artist, and was capable of great warmth and generosity. Nobody's perfect, and you're going to get a lot further in life looking for the light in people instead of the darkness. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 4 lines As for Miles Davis ... well not to excuse anything he did during his life,

> As for Miles Davis ... well not to excuse anything he did during his life, > but he was a very troubled individual who had serious problems dealing > with women, drugs and alcohol. But he was also an incredibly focused > artist, and was capable of great warmth and generosity.

this may not really be quite pertinent, but I'd like to remind everyone that Mozart died cause he was a massive alcoholic... if that wasnt his cause of death, I can at least tell you for a fact that he drank a WHOLE LOT. so did Beethoven..... Look what drugs have done for music, and appreciate it. This is *not* to say illicit substances and/or alcohol are a necessary part of creating compelling, original art, but one cannot deny their influence thereupon.... my 2c - ian/delphi#// --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I was just thinking about something and felt compelled to suggest some good ole geezer IDM. Check out the background music for the old 70's show Land of the Lost. Great Stuff (hehe) Brilliant!! "Bwwaaaaoooooww bwooawww bowww bwooaaaoowww....." -matT --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Ian Pojman wrote:

quoted 2 lines this may not really be quite pertinent, but I'd like to remind

> this may not really be quite pertinent, but I'd like to remind > everyone that Mozart died cause he was a massive alcoholic...

I thought he died of tuberculosis (or maybe I should say of "consumption") or one of those 18th century type illnesses.

quoted 1 line Look what drugs have done for music, and appreciate it.

> Look what drugs have done for music, and appreciate it.

Yeah, you _should_ look at what drugs have done for music and look at all the wasted talent throughout history. Sure drugs can have certain effects on the creation of music (not speaking from personal experience), but artists compose amazing music because they're extremely talented, not because they were stoned or drunk while composing. And I think it's funny that some of the most zonked out music I know was composed by some pretty square people like all those post-WWII composers and people working at INA-GRM and what have you. That stuff sounds a lot more fucked up to me than any psychedelic nonsense I've heard. Check out Heinz Holliger's "Scardanelli-Zyklus", which deals with poet Friedrich Holderlin's descent into madness, if you wanna hear some real unearthly music. And if you see a picture of Holliger you'll see what a damn nerd he is. Andrei --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0714529419/o/qid=968955931/sr=8-1/ref =aps_sr_b_1_3/002-3571947-8192003 For those of you really curious about the role of drugs and disease in art, go read this book...brilliant stuff. Even an appendix with a list of composers, artists, writers, etc., listed by affliction/addiction. The list is more comprehensive than you think... Essentially, what most of history considers great art (whether it be picasso, dostoevsky, nietzsche or beethoven) comes from a place that isn't like everyday reality. Sometimes your brain just works differently and, in many ways, has the ability to create what so-called 'ordinary' people cannot see/hear/envision. It's true that you don't need drugs or disease to create beautiful things (whether they be books, music or paintings), but given the wealth of history, it's undeniable that both addiction and affliction can have massive creative side effects. As for drugs 'wasting' talent...you just can't get away with saying that Miles' talent was wasted with alcohol. First of all, it was his talent to waste, so it's not your business. Second of all, have you heard "Kind of Blue"? What more do you want? When you begin to think of the world in terms of quantity, rather than quality, you miss the genius of individual moments in time. I still don't understand how people can continue to look at the world like this, passing judgment from the superior knowledge of hindsight as if these matters were completely obvious all along. For those of you who believe the world is black and white, take a moment to consider that not everyone agrees with you. The world isn't as simple as it seems...especially from the outside. ---brian ------------------------ Brian W. Gause Senior Technical Writer SECTORBASE.com 568 Howard Street First Floor San Francisco, CA 94105 Direct: (415) 365-8203 Fax: (415) 365-8263 -----Original Message----- From: andrei@world.std.com [mailto:andrei@world.std.com] Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 11:17 AM To: idm@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [idm] art by assholes - Miles Davis and drugs Ian Pojman wrote:

quoted 2 lines this may not really be quite pertinent, but I'd like to remind

> this may not really be quite pertinent, but I'd like to remind > everyone that Mozart died cause he was a massive alcoholic...

I thought he died of tuberculosis (or maybe I should say of "consumption") or one of those 18th century type illnesses.

quoted 1 line Look what drugs have done for music, and appreciate it.

> Look what drugs have done for music, and appreciate it.

Yeah, you _should_ look at what drugs have done for music and look at all the wasted talent throughout history. Sure drugs can have certain effects on the creation of music (not speaking from personal experience), but artists compose amazing music because they're extremely talented, not because they were stoned or drunk while composing. And I think it's funny that some of the most zonked out music I know was composed by some pretty square people like all those post-WWII composers and people working at INA-GRM and what have you. That stuff sounds a lot more fucked up to me than any psychedelic nonsense I've heard. Check out Heinz Holliger's "Scardanelli-Zyklus", which deals with poet Friedrich Holderlin's descent into madness, if you wanna hear some real unearthly music. And if you see a picture of Holliger you'll see what a damn nerd he is. Andrei --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

"Gause, Brian" wrote:

quoted 3 lines As for drugs 'wasting' talent...you just can't get away with saying that

> As for drugs 'wasting' talent...you just can't get away with saying that > Miles' talent was wasted with alcohol. First of all, it was his talent to > waste, so it's not your business.

Whateva...

quoted 1 line Second of all, have you heard "Kind of Blue"? What more do you want?

> Second of all, have you heard "Kind of Blue"? What more do you want?

About a million fucking times, so what (no pun intended) ? Is that supposed to show me the amazing effects addiction can have on the creative act ? I think Miles had actually kicked his heroin habit a few years prior to making "Kind Of Blue". Miles made lots of other amazing albums and who knows what sort of mental/health state he was in when he recorded them. Listen to Blue Haze if you wanna hear Miles dealing with addiction. I was watching an interview with "jazz legend" and ex-drug consumer Lee Konitz recently and he was saying that music created under the influence needs to be listened to under the influence for it to sound as good as it did while you were creating it and that it usually sounds terrible when you listen back to it and you're not stoned.

quoted 7 lines When you begin to think of the world in terms of quantity, rather than quality, you

> When you begin to think of the world in terms of quantity, rather than quality, you > miss the genius of individual moments in time. > I still don't understand how people can continue to look at the world like > this, passing judgment from the superior knowledge of hindsight as if these > matters were completely obvious all along. For those of you who believe the > world is black and white, take a moment to consider that not everyone agrees > with you. The world isn't as simple as it seems...especially from the outside.

You have much insight, wise one. Andrei --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 9 lines I was watching an interview with "jazz legend" and ex-drug

> I was watching an interview with "jazz legend" and ex-drug > consumer Lee Konitz > recently and he was saying that music created under the influence > needs to be > listened to under the influence for it to sound as good as it did > while you were > creating it and that it usually sounds terrible when you listen > back to it and you're > not stoned.

interesting point, but I strongly disagree and have already decided not to back myself up. when I'm stoned I feel as sober as ever. what difference, once again I implore, does it make how high you are? how drunk you are? how sober you are? I loathe heroin, absolutely LOATHE it. but you know what, digable planets are one of my favorite hip-hop groups, I dont care if they sell razor blades to fuckin 8 yo's. Trent Reznor SUCKED after he kicked heroin (ahah no attacks please). Im not trying to prove a point, im trying to point out something. btw. all you people talking about hair bands, seriously watch cannibal corpse play, other than on ace ventura. :DD peace, ian/delphi/// --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

-----Original Message----- From: andrei@world.std.com [mailto:andrei@world.std.com] Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 2:48 PM To: idm@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [idm] art by assholes - Miles Davis and drugs "Gause, Brian" wrote:

quoted 3 lines As for drugs 'wasting' talent...you just can't get away with saying that

> As for drugs 'wasting' talent...you just can't get away with saying that > Miles' talent was wasted with alcohol. First of all, it was his talent to > waste, so it's not your business.

Whateva...

quoted 1 line Second of all, have you heard "Kind of Blue"? What more do you want?

> Second of all, have you heard "Kind of Blue"? What more do you want?

About a million fucking times, so what (no pun intended) ? Is that supposed to show me the amazing effects addiction can have on the creative act ? I think Miles had actually kicked his heroin habit a few years prior to making "Kind Of Blue". Miles made lots of other amazing albums and who knows what sort of mental/health state he was in when he recorded them. Listen to Blue Haze if you wanna hear Miles dealing with addiction. ****************** Actually, I wasn't talking about addiction. I was talking about your condemnation of Miles' art (and art, in general) as "wasted" because of drugs. My point is that Kind of Blue is brilliant...no sign of waste anywhere in sight. That's what. ****************** I was watching an interview with "jazz legend" and ex-drug consumer Lee Konitz recently and he was saying that music created under the influence needs to be listened to under the influence for it to sound as good as it did while you were creating it and that it usually sounds terrible when you listen back to it and you're not stoned. ***************** This is plainly not true. Beethoven was deaf when he wrote his 9th Symphony...does this mean we have to be deaf for it to sound as good? Does the 9th Symphony then sound "terrible" to those of us that can hear? And if you want more examples, try Pink Floyd, the Beatles, the Stones, Hendrix, Bowie, Eno, damn, how many should I name? And if you want to talk about the affects of drugs, you have to include nicotine...caffeine...alcohol...so how about all those musicians who composed music while drunk? Do we have to be drunk to appreciate the genius there? What about musicians who smoke? What about internal chemical conditions? Do I have to have epileptic seizures to appreciate The Brothers Karamazov? The effect of external chemicals on the brain is not absolute. Some people get drunk on one beer, some people need a six-pack. Some tried pot and were never affected, others never inhaled and still run the country like a stoned-out wanker. You can't simply offer a sweeping generalization like 'drugs are bad' and expect it to stand up like this. Different chemicals change the electrochemical reaction system within your brain in different ways. This can have strange and crazy effects, some good, some bad, some interesting, some meaningless...many people aren't going to EVER create something as cohesive as Dark Side of the Moon, drunk, stoned or sober...some people are never going to understand it as it was intended...but you can't ignore the fact that some people can reach interesting insights and create meaningful symbology (whether written, musical or visual) when their brain chemistry changes. And there will always be someone (one, one hundred or one million someones) who find that personally meaningful. I mean no offense here, but it seems startling to me that you (and millions of other people) continue to argue against the use of substances with ZERO first-hand experience. If you've never taken a drink in your life, how can you know anything about what it feels like? If you've never been to Mars, should we really listen to you as an expert on the effects of the martian landscape on your vision of the world? Think again. ****************

quoted 1 line When you begin to think of the world in terms of quantity, rather than

> When you begin to think of the world in terms of quantity, rather than

quality, you

quoted 3 lines miss the genius of individual moments in time.

> miss the genius of individual moments in time. > I still don't understand how people can continue to look at the world like > this, passing judgment from the superior knowledge of hindsight as if

these

quoted 1 line matters were completely obvious all along. For those of you who believe

> matters were completely obvious all along. For those of you who believe

the

quoted 1 line world is black and white, take a moment to consider that not everyone

> world is black and white, take a moment to consider that not everyone

agrees

quoted 1 line with you. The world isn't as simple as it seems...especially from the

> with you. The world isn't as simple as it seems...especially from the

outside. You have much insight, wise one. Andrei --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

actually, claiming beethoven's death was a result of an STD is a bit misleading... his death has been most often attributed to liver failure due to cirrhosis (which, btw, was confirmed by autopsy)... "Chronic active hepatitis due to viral or auto-immune disease is a possibility, but it is not necessary to invoke this as an explanation in a patient known to have been drinking heavily over a thirty-year period. --O'Shea, 1991" (http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/lethin/beethoven.html) ---brian ------------------------ Brian W. Gause Senior Technical Writer SECTORBASE.com 568 Howard Street First Floor San Francisco, CA 94105 Direct: (415) 365-8203 Fax: (415) 365-8263 -----Original Message----- From: Ian Doyle [mailto:wobbyamb@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, September 15, 2000 8:17 AM To: idm@hyperreal.org Subject: RE: [idm] art by assholes - Miles Davis and drugs Beethoven died of an STD...that's what made him deaf in the first place....just shows what sex has done to music

quoted 4 lines this may not really be quite pertinent, but I'd like to remind

>this may not really be quite pertinent, but I'd like to remind >everyone that Mozart died cause he was a massive alcoholic... if >that wasnt his cause of death, I can at least tell you for a >fact that he drank a WHOLE LOT. so did Beethoven.....

_________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Beethoven died of an STD...that's what made him deaf in the first place....just shows what sex has done to music

quoted 4 lines this may not really be quite pertinent, but I'd like to remind

>this may not really be quite pertinent, but I'd like to remind >everyone that Mozart died cause he was a massive alcoholic... if >that wasnt his cause of death, I can at least tell you for a >fact that he drank a WHOLE LOT. so did Beethoven.....

_________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org