IDM Mailing Archive

2000-05-10 13:30Alex Reynolds>Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 22:21:11 BST >From: ": ruaridh :" <thevillageorchestra@hotmail.com

From:: Alex Reynolds <reynolda@sas.upenn.edu>
To:: <thevillageorchestra@hotmail.com>
Cc:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Wed, 10 May 2000 09:30:58 -0400
Subject:: [idm] pens and pencils

quoted 6 lines Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 22:21:11 BST

>Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 22:21:11 BST >From: ": ruaridh :" <thevillageorchestra@hotmail.com> >Subject: 606 > >Well if you dont like it, you dont like it. But to read something political >or racial into it is just narrow-minded.

Is there no racial or political impact in NWA's lyrics? Why is the white vinyl stamped with a black label? Why are the liner notes like crib notes from an Eminem album? I understand that this was done on one level "for laughs", but in a overall sense these were conscious decisions which work on other levels.

quoted 1 line Would you have posted the same response if you actually *liked* the record?

>Would you have posted the same response if you actually *liked* the record?

Is this a rhetorical question? Of course not. If I liked it I would have said so. (?)

quoted 4 lines Its clearly a tribute to an

>Its clearly a tribute to an >inspiring, influential track; if anthing, a "take" on the power of black >music. In fact, fuck that...the power of MUSIC full stop. Once you start >making divisions like that you're asking for trouble.

That's fine. In my narrow-minded way, I think it's dangerous and short-sighted to ignore the larger social context of the music we consume, in pursuit of some homogenized, beatific MTV-land where beautiful teenage gods hawk the latest hip goods and get along with one another. I don't let that context overwhelm every thought I have when I listen to something, but a little analysis always leads to some understanding.

quoted 3 lines And for *my* money, its easily the best VVM record to date, the best 606

>And for *my* money, its easily the best VVM record to date, the best 606 >record to date, and exactly 10000 times better than the, in the main, >extremely tedious Autechre aping of anything Schematics have ever produced.

Well, if I write: >>this remix. it sounds like a dsp'ed mash of samples, stopping and >>restarting -- there is no semblance of flow or the appearance of a whole >>track here; no point or direction, just experimental noodling.> ...I should have expected that from a VVM release. Nonetheless, the EP sucks hard on various levels and I stand by my opinion. There are very few people in the world who can make noise work, and most of them have no affiliation with VVM. Their reputation is based largely on hype. Yes, the emperor is naked and has a hairy ass. The only Schematic ape who could be accused of aping Ae styles is R. Devine, and his work is still sharp and fresh. It's like listening to Ae if they cloned themselves back in `97 and the clone went in a different artistic direction, since there are distinct, divine elements you can hear in his stuff. As all art is derivative anyway, I consider this "good enough" as far as originality goes. Yrs, Alex Reynolds SAS Computing / Biology University of Pennsylvania Philadelphia, PA 19104-6228 V +1 215 573.2818 / F +1 215 898.8780 http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~reynolda/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

2000-05-10 20:34: ruaridh :Well, leaving the matters of personal taste to the side for a moment.. >Is there no racial

From:: : ruaridh : <thevillageorchestra@hotmail.com>
To:: <reynolda@sas.upenn.edu>
Cc:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Wed, 10 May 2000 21:34:25 BST
Subject:: [idm] Re: pens and pencils

Well, leaving the matters of personal taste to the side for a moment..

quoted 1 line Is there no racial or political impact in NWA's lyrics?

>Is there no racial or political impact in NWA's lyrics?

Of course there is, but that doesnt mean that a tribute to them has to be intrisically racial or political. Perhaps what the record celebrated was their sheer power - the astonishing ferocity which Kid 606, whether justifibly or not, perhpas feels an affinity with. I know that when *I* was at school, my first exposure to rap, indeed my first exposure to any music that wasnt anodyne chart drivel was through copied tapes of what turned out to be NWA. If i was to celebrate what i felt was great about them, it certainly wouldnt be the fact that i can identify with the issues of race or politics in the lyrics; but i still feel that their music is incredibly powerful and worth celebrating. So does this make me less worthy of appreciating them somehow? Of course not. Parts of the lyrics are left intact, and the feeling of rage is still there; why then do you see this as a knowing calculated statement about "theft of black culture" and not just a love-letter from an ardent fan?

quoted 2 lines Why is the white

>Why is the white >vinyl stamped with a black label?

Good question; bad judgement, at the very least, on the part of the label i would say. But not a reflection on the artist or music.

quoted 4 lines Would you have posted the same response if you actually *liked* the

>>Would you have posted the same response if you actually *liked* the >> >>record? >Is this a rhetorical question? Of course not. If I liked it I would >have >said so. (?)

I presume you're deliberately misunderstanding me; my point was to enquire as to whether you would have gone into this over-analysis if you'd liked the record, or if it's all merely needless justification for disliking it.

quoted 1 line .... but a little analysis always leads to some understanding.

>.... but a little analysis always leads to some understanding.

...and over-analysis stifles enjoyment. There isnt a monster under every bed; likewise, someone with one hue who enjoys another slightly different persons work isnt always pursuing a sinister agenda. There is enough "cultural theft" taking place already; to we need to invent more? On to the matters of opinion...

quoted 4 lines There are very few

>There are very few >people in the world who can make noise work, and most of them have no >affiliation with VVM. Their reputation is based largely on hype. Yes, >the >emperor is naked and has a hairy ass.

And i'm sure we're all impressed that you are bucking what you see as the trend, avoiding the herd, ignoring the hype blah blah blah. I personally think that half of VVMs output (old Tv themes, charity shop records etc. etc.) is puerile nonsense. But i dont let the fact that its on a label that have a bit of a buzz about them cloud my judgement. As far as i'm concerned, the 606 single and Caretaker CD are two of the best things i've heard in months, with the Stranger Pthalo release up there as well. But thats just my opinion.

quoted 6 lines The only Schematic ape who could be accused of aping Ae styles is R.

>The only Schematic ape who could be accused of aping Ae styles is R. >Devine, and his work is still sharp and fresh. It's like listening to >Ae >if they cloned themselves back in `97 and the clone went in a >different >artistic direction, since there are distinct, divine >elements you can >hear in his stuff. As all art is derivative anyway, >I consider this "good >enough" as far as originality goes.

Even those who post to the list *praising* Schematics stuff admit the very large debt they owe. I'd rather listen to something a bit more interesting. ________________________________________________________ "I believe in the modern world. I believe in the automobile, and the Charleston, and the dry martini. I represent Invisibilism and *my* Gods have electric light bulbs for eyes. My Gods run on internal combustion engines." - Lady Edith Manning, 1924 R xx thevillageorchestra@hotmail.com Marcia Blaine Industries / Metal-On-Metal Records http://websites.ntl.com/~metal-on-metal/ __________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

2000-05-10 21:38Alex ReynoldsAt 9:34 PM +0100 5/10/00, : ruaridh : wrote: >Well, leaving the matters of personal taste

From:: Alex Reynolds <reynolda@sas.upenn.edu>
To:: : ruaridh : <thevillageorchestra@hotmail.com>, <reynolda@sas.upenn.edu>
Cc:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Wed, 10 May 2000 17:38:37 -0400
Subject:: [idm] lifejackets for lemmings
Reply to:: [idm] Re: pens and pencils

At 9:34 PM +0100 5/10/00, : ruaridh : wrote:

quoted 1 line Well, leaving the matters of personal taste to the side for a moment..

>Well, leaving the matters of personal taste to the side for a moment..

Why? That's no fun at all.

quoted 6 lines Is there no racial or political impact in NWA's lyrics?

>>Is there no racial or political impact in NWA's lyrics? > >Of course there is, but that doesnt mean that a tribute to them has to be >intrisically racial or political. Perhaps what the record celebrated was >their sheer power - the astonishing ferocity which Kid 606, whether >justifibly or not, perhpas feels an affinity with.

It's possible, but because of the release's design and music -- bad judgement call as it may be -- I feel there's enough to say there's more there than just banal rage.

quoted 4 lines ...Parts of the lyrics are left

>...Parts of the lyrics are left >intact, and the feeling of rage is still there; why then do you see this as >a knowing calculated statement about "theft of black culture" and not just a >love-letter from an ardent fan?

Because: -- the white vinyl is stamped with a black label -- the label notes read like some kid auditioning to be a VJ -- the music itself seems pretty tame, in comparison with the original (and that's a statement of a kind in its own right)

quoted 6 lines Is this a rhetorical question? Of course not. If I liked it I would >have

>>Is this a rhetorical question? Of course not. If I liked it I would >have >>said so. (?) > >I presume you're deliberately misunderstanding me; my point was to enquire >as to whether you would have gone into this over-analysis if you'd liked the >record, or if it's all merely needless justification for disliking it.

Feel free to read my reviews in Grooves and on the list archives if you're truly interested in what I write when I do like something. If anything, I could be accused of over-analyzing everything, good or bad. And I tend to give more thumbs up than down.

quoted 2 lines persons work isnt always pursuing a sinister agenda. There is enough

>persons work isnt always pursuing a sinister agenda. There is enough >"cultural theft" taking place already; to we need to invent more?

Yes, I think it is a highly relevant issue in this era of well-paid, multi-platinum, hyphenated, guitar-rap acts. If this NWA remix is a satirical work, my hat goes off to Mr. Depedro.

quoted 5 lines affiliation with VVM. Their reputation is based largely on hype. Yes, >the

>>affiliation with VVM. Their reputation is based largely on hype. Yes, >the >>emperor is naked and has a hairy ass. > >And i'm sure we're all impressed that you are bucking what you see as the >trend, avoiding the herd, ignoring the hype blah blah blah.

It's ironic that an independent like V/VM inspires this kind of worship. Didn't they promise to burn a bunch of IDM rareties awhile back in a blaze of righteous fire? I just dislike hypocrisy. More importantly, I do not respect the musical content of their stuff.

quoted 2 lines etc.) is puerile nonsense. But i dont let the fact that its on a label that

>etc.) is puerile nonsense. But i dont let the fact that its on a label that >have a bit of a buzz about them cloud my judgement.

I did not decide to buy (or decide not to buy) Kid606's "Straight Outta Compton" based on whether it was on V/VM. In fact, I didn't know it was published through V/VM until I had it in my hands and looked at it. I bought it because it was an NWA remix project that sounded like a good idea on paper. FYI, I do about 98% of my buying "blind", via mail-order. The other 2% is composed of movie soundtracks and the occasional Britney Spears fix.

quoted 4 lines As far as i'm concerned,

>As far as i'm concerned, >the 606 single and Caretaker CD are two of the best things i've heard in >months, with the Stranger Pthalo release up there as well. But thats just my >opinion.

As far as I'm concerned, all V/VM sounds pretty much the same, in that I don't play it more than once or twice before it quietly collects dust. But that's just my opinion.

quoted 2 lines Even those who post to the list *praising* Schematics stuff admit the very

>Even those who post to the list *praising* Schematics stuff admit the very >large debt they owe. I'd rather listen to something a bit more interesting.

Just because they paid tDR to do some cover art doesn't make them Warp copycats. Yes, they owe a debt to their forerunners across the pond. But they have their own voice. I'll agree that there is a much wider range of artists putting out good releases, and Schematic's artists are only a few among the bunch. "Lily.." was a real treat, certainly. I was really impressed with Phoenicia, Delarosa+Asora, and 09's tracks, which sounded nothing like Autechre of any era. Best, A. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

[idm] Re: pens and pencils