IDM Mailing Archive

on 3/29/00 6:06 AM, idm-digest-help@hyperreal.org at idm-digest-help@hyperreal.org wrote:

quoted 11 lines ------------------------------

> ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 14:13:31 +0100 > To: <idm@hyperreal.org> > From: "Eddie Symons" <Eddie.Symons@JesterInteractive.com> > Subject: Re: (idm) Mira Calix > Message-ID: <009101bf9980$94887e20$6600000a@eddie> > > I haven't seen it anywhere yet, but I noticed it's available from warpmart. > Theres audio clips on the rephlex web site too. Here's a question for you > then - Samurai Math Beats or Boku Mo Wakaran?

I like Boku Mo Wakaran much better. The beats on Samurai are fantastic too, but I think Bogdan went overboard with that annoying singing on a few tracks. I kept thinking while listening to it, "I wish he'd be quiet, so that I could hear the music better." In other words, I didn't feel like the singing added anything to the tracks. I know it's supposed to be zany and fun, but Aphex does this kind of thing too, and I think he pulls it off better. -- S H A D O W D W E L L E R S clever mc-noahdeeakili-jamal amin-shep P S A L M 9 1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 22 lines on 3/29/00 6:06 AM, idm-digest-help@hyperreal.org at

>on 3/29/00 6:06 AM, idm-digest-help@hyperreal.org at >idm-digest-help@hyperreal.org wrote: > >> ------------------------------ >> >> Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 14:13:31 +0100 >> To: <idm@hyperreal.org> >> From: "Eddie Symons" <Eddie.Symons@JesterInteractive.com> >> Subject: Re: (idm) Mira Calix >> Message-ID: <009101bf9980$94887e20$6600000a@eddie> >> >> I haven't seen it anywhere yet, but I noticed it's available from warpmart. >> Theres audio clips on the rephlex web site too. Here's a question for you >> then - Samurai Math Beats or Boku Mo Wakaran? > >I like Boku Mo Wakaran much better. The beats on Samurai are fantastic too, >but I think Bogdan went overboard with that annoying singing on a few >tracks. I kept thinking while listening to it, "I wish he'd be quiet, so >that I could hear the music better." In other words, I didn't feel like the >singing added anything to the tracks. I know it's supposed to be zany and >fun, but Aphex does this kind of thing too, and I think he pulls it off >better.

Some great percussion programming going on on Samurai, but yeah, that fucking whining! I think Aphex would have pulled it off better, RDJ integrates vocals samples really well in just about everything I think, hmmm, bar that Milkman song... do you think Aphex lost it there? I mean, proper lost it? :-) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

no way. milkman was perfect. the vocals weren't whiney at all. just sincere and heartfelt. well, that might be a stretch, but they weren't whiney, anyway. same with beetles. and in both cases, the music didn't suffer because of them. the music for milkman is great stuff! alan! np:acceleradeck:narcoticbeats On Wed, 29 Mar 2000, Paul Robinson wrote:

quoted 13 lines Some great percussion programming going on on Samurai, but yeah, that

> Some great percussion programming going on on Samurai, but yeah, that > fucking whining! I think Aphex would have pulled it off better, RDJ > integrates vocals samples really well in just about everything I think, > hmmm, bar that Milkman song... do you think Aphex lost it there? I mean, > proper lost it? :-) > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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no, it wasn't whiney I meant the lyrics, what the fuck?! But praise to the man, I like everything he does, I'm a huge AFX fan.

quoted 24 lines no way. milkman was perfect. the vocals weren't whiney at all. just

>no way. milkman was perfect. the vocals weren't whiney at all. just >sincere and heartfelt. well, that might be a stretch, but they weren't >whiney, anyway. same with beetles. and in both cases, the music didn't >suffer because of them. the music for milkman is great stuff! > >alan! > >np:acceleradeck:narcoticbeats > >On Wed, 29 Mar 2000, Paul Robinson wrote: > >> Some great percussion programming going on on Samurai, but yeah, that >> fucking whining! I think Aphex would have pulled it off better, RDJ >> integrates vocals samples really well in just about everything I think, >> hmmm, bar that Milkman song... do you think Aphex lost it there? I mean, >> proper lost it? :-) >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >> >>

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i think maybe the producers of these records put stupid vox on cos they (and their friends) find it funny... and i dont think its in any way a defence mechanism against criticism of the music...i know for a fact that the Horse Operator doesnt care what people think about his tracks (except for his mum) if it makes you laugh..great...if not...well...no matter...it has no bearing on any other tracks... maybe for someone else, the talking/singing/misplaced/insistent whatever had the opposite effect.. and surprisingly enough, i thought that sexy motherfucker was damn funny... (even if the idea was stolen in part from the fast show ;) easy now martin

quoted 3 lines The beetles were the quintessential whiners of pop, in my humble opinion.

> The beetles were the quintessential whiners of pop, in my humble opinion. > There is some fantastic stuff on Boku, but the talking/singing and sample > happiness just gets in the way. It ruined half the tracks for me. Kind of

like

quoted 2 lines Horse Opera on planet-µ, it could have been a great record, but instead w/

> Horse Opera on planet-µ, it could have been a great record, but instead w/ > it's misplaced and insistent silly samples, was just mediocre. I have to

agree

quoted 1 line about AFX. The thing about him is that he's always joking some what, even

> about AFX. The thing about him is that he's always joking some what, even

on

quoted 2 lines his darker tracks, so that a few vocals don't really change much. Still, I

> his darker tracks, so that a few vocals don't really change much. Still, I > think I would have preferred the milkman w/ out the vocals in the long

run.

quoted 1 line 'Sucking the milkman's wife's tits', heartfelt? The thing about words

> 'Sucking the milkman's wife's tits', heartfelt? The thing about words is

that

quoted 2 lines they are very loaded and bring into play an entirely different way of

> they are very loaded and bring into play an entirely different way of > listening to the music. The associations one makes while listening are

very

quoted 2 lines different. I'm sure this would show up quite clearly w/ a brain scan for

> different. I'm sure this would show up quite clearly w/ a brain scan for > instance. We are on more familiar ground with words, especially when we

are

quoted 1 line talking about music created with computers, where sonic novelty (I know

> talking about music created with computers, where sonic novelty (I know

the

quoted 1 line word novelty carries both negative and positive connotations. In this case

> word novelty carries both negative and positive connotations. In this case

I

quoted 1 line mean both.) is constantly making itself heard. I have nothing against

> mean both.) is constantly making itself heard. I have nothing against

words

quoted 1 line and vocals in themselves. It's just that very few people have any thing to

> and vocals in themselves. It's just that very few people have any thing to

say

quoted 4 lines that's worth listening to. AFX and Bogdan do have something to "say"

> that's worth listening to. AFX and Bogdan do have something to "say" > musically, I think maybe they don't have enough faith in the worth of the > music itself, so that they put on the "fuck you, I'm just fucking around" > facade as a defense. You can't really be criticized if you're joking,

because

quoted 20 lines "it's just a joke man".

> "it's just a joke man". > > Christophe > > alan r lucas wrote: > > > no way. milkman was perfect. the vocals weren't whiney at all. just > > sincere and heartfelt. well, that might be a stretch, but they weren't > > whiney, anyway. same with beetles. and in both cases, the music didn't > > suffer because of them. the music for milkman is great stuff! > > > > alan! > > > > np:acceleradeck:narcoticbeats > > > > On Wed, 29 Mar 2000, Paul Robinson wrote: > > > > > Some great percussion programming going on on Samurai, but yeah, that > > > fucking whining! I think Aphex would have pulled it off better, RDJ > > > integrates vocals samples really well in just about everything I

think,

quoted 1 line hmmm, bar that Milkman song... do you think Aphex lost it there? I

> > > hmmm, bar that Milkman song... do you think Aphex lost it there? I

mean,

quoted 14 lines proper lost it? :-)

> > > proper lost it? :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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quoted 7 lines AFX and Bogdan do have something to "say"

> AFX and Bogdan do have something to "say" > musically, I think maybe they don't have enough faith in the > worth of the > music itself, so that they put on the "fuck you, I'm just > fucking around" > facade as a defense. You can't really be criticized if you're > joking, because "it's just a joke man".

Another way to look at it is that they don't view the vocals as any less important than any other part of the music -- that in fact the artist intended it to be an integral part of the composition. I don't understand why one would even think of it any other way. Unless you've got a problem with humor. Methinks that some people think that a sense of humor about art/music indicates a lack of seriousness. Just because something doesn't make you frown or cry doesn't mean it's just a bullshit joke on the part of the artist. Perhaps your perception that it is somewhat inappropriate for art to be fun is exactly what is being critiqued by these artists (i.e., they are "saying" that we shouldn't be so darn pretentious), and maybe it is what makes their musical attitude so refreshingly different from the rest of the electronic shit out there. Think of Dada: Marcel Duchamp and Max Ernst make me giggle, but their intentions are usually pretty serious. I think it's a matter of one's temperament mostly, but also to a degree a matter of your own self-confidence when confronted with the fact that what you are listening to might be construed as "silly". -Cf --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

My disappointment with the tracks in question is not that they are humorous. I find a lot of AFX quite humorous, especially when he pulls it off without the vocals. He has a great sense of black humor. The vocals, as with most 'pop' just seem too easy, too obvious. AFX can sometimes pull off using vocals as an integral part of the composition. I can think of several examples where he has done so beautifully. Sometimes he doesn't. With Bogdan and Horse Opera the vocals and samples seem to float over the rest of the music, as if they were added afterwards as an 'embellishment'. I have to disagree that they are an integral part of the composition in their case, at least that's how my ear sees it >;->- Christophe Chris Fahey wrote:

quoted 20 lines Another way to look at it is that they don't view the vocals as any less

> > Another way to look at it is that they don't view the vocals as any less > important than any other part of the music -- that in fact the artist > intended it to be an integral part of the composition. I don't understand > why one would even think of it any other way. Unless you've got a problem > with humor. > > Methinks that some people think that a sense of humor about art/music > indicates a lack of seriousness. Just because something doesn't make you > frown or cry doesn't mean it's just a bullshit joke on the part of the > artist. Perhaps your perception that it is somewhat inappropriate for art to > be fun is exactly what is being critiqued by these artists (i.e., they are > "saying" that we shouldn't be so darn pretentious), and maybe it is what > makes their musical attitude so refreshingly different from the rest of the > electronic shit out there. Think of Dada: Marcel Duchamp and Max Ernst make > me giggle, but their intentions are usually pretty serious. I think it's a > matter of one's temperament mostly, but also to a degree a matter of your > own self-confidence when confronted with the fact that what you are > listening to might be construed as "silly". >

Christophe McKeon wrote: The beetles were the quintessential whiners of pop, in my humble opinion. There is some fantastic stuff on Boku, but the talking/singing and sample happiness just gets in the way. It ruined half the tracks for me. Kind of like Horse Opera on planet-µ, it could have been a great record, but instead w/ it's misplaced and insistent silly samples, was just mediocre. I have to agree about AFX. The thing about him is that he's always joking some what, even on his darker tracks, so that a few vocals don't really change much. Still, I think I would have preferred the milkman w/ out the vocals in the long run. 'Sucking the milkman's wife's tits', heartfelt? The thing about words is that they are very loaded and bring into play an entirely different way of listening to the music. The associations one makes while listening are very different. I'm sure this would show up quite clearly w/ a brain scan for instance. We are on more familiar ground with words, especially when we are talking about music created with computers, where sonic novelty (I know the word novelty carries both negative and positive connotations. In this case I mean both.) is constantly making itself heard. I have nothing against words and vocals in themselves. It's just that very few people have any thing to say that's worth listening to. AFX and Bogdan do have something to "say" musically, I think maybe they don't have enough faith in the worth of the music itself, so that they put on the "fuck you, I'm just fucking around" facade as a defense. You can't really be criticized if you're joking, because "it's just a joke man". Christophe --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org