IDM Mailing Archive

On Tue, 20 May 1997 chall@leonardo.net wrote:

quoted 2 lines David Bowie recently said that he believes the future of drum & bass is

> David Bowie recently said that he believes the future of drum & bass is > actually limiting and that he expects it will "implode."

It is true that alot of the breaks in D&B are being used in tons of songs, and that it has the potential to get old. BUT I feel that some of the most interesting music to come out in the last year and a half has been drum n bass. I buy more Drum n bass than anything else lately.

quoted 3 lines Pretty strong words from a man with a failing d&b cd.

> Pretty strong words from a man with a failing d&b cd. > However, his remarks brought reflection since we've all noticed a real > fad direction with the drum & bass style music.

He is probably talking from an industry point of view. I don't think drum n bass is ready for commercial acceptance for quite a while.

quoted 1 line "Implode!" Thems is fightin' words!

> "Implode!" Thems is fightin' words!

Not likely, at least that is my feeling. I am constant hearing new amazing drum n bass all the time, in fact there probably isn't a week that goes by where i don't buy something really great

quoted 6 lines How would drum & bass kill itself off? Does the audience become so

> How would drum & bass kill itself off? Does the audience become so > saturated with a million UK techno acts that it turns away...I think > not! > > Maybe Bowie is just frustrated with the lack of acceptance of his new > works. Wasn't he the trend setter with "Changes?"

The people that like drum n bass wouldn't buy Bowie's album, and the people that would buy his album probably wouldn't like drum n bass that much. I have a soft spot for Bowie's older material (especially LOW), but I really have no interest in the last couple of albums he has done. I think it is kind of cool that he tried to do drum & bass, but it didn't really work out. William Samuels

On Thursday, 22-May-97, Zander wrote [about Re: (idm) D&B Implode]:

quoted 2 lines It is true that alot of the breaks in D&B are being used in tons of songs,

>It is true that alot of the breaks in D&B are being used in tons of songs, >and that it has the potential to get old. BUT I feel that some of the

not for those who make their own breaks (as all should). I think if everyone used their own breaks, it would probably be a lot better, and drum'n'bass as a whole would be better also..

quoted 2 lines most interesting music to come out in the last year and a half has been

>most interesting music to come out in the last year and a half has been >drum n bass. I buy more Drum n bass than anything else lately.

yep, after buying the Richard D. James LP it seems virtually all the new music I've bought has been drum'n'bass. about the only exception has been a goa record I've bought since then. and it seems that all of the artists I usually keep up with are doing drum'n'bass stuffs now.

quoted 3 lines Pretty strong words from a man with a failing d&b cd.

>> Pretty strong words from a man with a failing d&b cd. >> However, his remarks brought reflection since we've all noticed a real >> fad direction with the drum & bass style music.

yep. I think it's kindof time for something new. squarepusher is great, and the AFX stuff is great, but µ-Ziq really bombed out imho with Urmur Bile Trax, and I was really disappointed when I heard the new Wagon Christ. Seems lotsa ppl like it, but It's just alright IMO, for the most part it's just loops and breaks&bass. It's on green vinyl, but not rare enough heh.. :) .auddplte <-- appaloosa&dj dream: chord data __ __\ \ / /_\ \ \_____/ , m7=

chall@leonardo.net wrote:

quoted 13 lines David Bowie recently said that he believes the future of drum & bass is

> > David Bowie recently said that he believes the future of drum & bass is > actually limiting and that he expects it will "implode." > > Pretty strong words from a man with a failing d&b cd. > However, his remarks brought reflection since we've all noticed a real > fad direction with the drum & bass style music. > > "Implode!" Thems is fightin' words! > > How would drum & bass kill itself off? Does the audience become so > saturated with a million UK techno acts that it turns away...I think > not!

i might have to agree with mr. bowie here. there are certain elements that make a dnb song a dnb song. since every song has to contain these elements in varying degrees there is a limit as to how far it can go and still be dnb. (this applies to all styles of music, it just seems the dnb elements are more narrow) obviously there are extremely talented artists who cam innovate (pusher,afx,dot), but i would be hard pressed to believe that most people could tell the difference between 75% of the dnb being produced right now. for example ltj bukem's mixmag sounds like one song. that doesnt mean i dont like it, it just doesnt cover alot of ground. cl

quoted 10 lines i might have to agree with mr. bowie here. there are certain elements

> i might have to agree with mr. bowie here. there are certain elements > that make a dnb song a dnb song. since every song has to contain these > elements in varying degrees there is a limit as to how far it can go and > still be dnb. (this applies to all styles of music, it just seems the > dnb elements are more narrow) obviously there are extremely talented > artists who cam innovate (pusher,afx,dot), but i would be hard pressed > to believe that most people could tell the difference between 75% of the > dnb being produced right now. for example ltj bukem's mixmag sounds > like one song. that doesnt mean i dont like it, it just doesnt cover > alot of ground.

I disagree with that statement there is a pretty wide variety of drum n bass. I don't really think Dom & Roland sounds anything like Squarepusher. Photek and Source Direct has a similar energy but I can definitely tell a difference. Panacea and Decoder are some of the dark D & B stuff, its very different from the above mentioned groups. Alot of the stuff on Rawkus/Primitive and Mick Harris's Possible label has a unique sound. I have been very impressed with many of these artists and their ability to push the genre and not stagnate it. William Samuels

quoted 18 lines The element that seems to define drum & bass are the drums - busy breakbeats

> > The element that seems to define drum & bass are the drums - busy breakbeats > - and, to a lesser degree, the basslines. In order to for the statement > above to be correct, you'd have to disregard whatever is on top of those > drums - be it reggae, dark soundscape stuff, blissed out ambient, soul, > weirdness, verse-chorus-verse vocals, jazz or more or less nothing. That > would mean lumping Tribe Of Ischar, Dom & Roland, Bukem, Goldie, Aphex Twin, > Alex Reece, Amon Tobin and Photek all in one category. Which is fine by me, > but doesn't really do justice to the various styles that exist within d'n'b. > To me, it is similar to saying that Armand van Helden and The Spice Girls' > "Say you'll be there" belong to one and the same category because they both > use a house rhythm track. If you focus on the beat, it might be true, but if > you listen to the entire thing, it's obvious it's not. The fact that 75% of > the people might not be able to distinguish between various d'n'b styles is > most likely caused by the fact that they haven't heard much d'n'b or because > they're not really interested. My mom was never able to distinguish between > Foetus and Iron Maiden - to her it was all a bunch of a-tonal noise. >

----------------------- i did err in the sense of putting it all together. i do not follow it closely enough to be familiar with more than those artists who are mentioned on this list, which happens to be limited fare. (not suprising since this isnt a dnb list). anyway, i am aware of the multiple categories, and have sampled some of each. i guess my point would be that after listening to the 3 panacea 12's on chrome there just didnt seem to be much variation. does he (or they) have a unique sound? sure, but i imagine a darkstep dj set would be an hour of songs that are pretty much like that. the shelf life seems limited. on the other hand, breakbeat science 1+2 really paints a better picture of what is out there at all points on the spectrum. dnb will be around for a while, i just hope it avoids the trap of becoming formulated into drivel. cl

quoted 10 lines i might have to agree with mr. bowie here. there are certain elements

>> i might have to agree with mr. bowie here. there are certain elements >> that make a dnb song a dnb song. since every song has to contain these >> elements in varying degrees there is a limit as to how far it can go and >> still be dnb. (this applies to all styles of music, it just seems the >> dnb elements are more narrow) obviously there are extremely talented >> artists who cam innovate (pusher,afx,dot), but i would be hard pressed >> to believe that most people could tell the difference between 75% of the >> dnb being produced right now. for example ltj bukem's mixmag sounds >> like one song. that doesnt mean i dont like it, it just doesnt cover >> alot of ground.

The element that seems to define drum & bass are the drums - busy breakbeats - and, to a lesser degree, the basslines. In order to for the statement above to be correct, you'd have to disregard whatever is on top of those drums - be it reggae, dark soundscape stuff, blissed out ambient, soul, weirdness, verse-chorus-verse vocals, jazz or more or less nothing. That would mean lumping Tribe Of Ischar, Dom & Roland, Bukem, Goldie, Aphex Twin, Alex Reece, Amon Tobin and Photek all in one category. Which is fine by me, but doesn't really do justice to the various styles that exist within d'n'b. To me, it is similar to saying that Armand van Helden and The Spice Girls' "Say you'll be there" belong to one and the same category because they both use a house rhythm track. If you focus on the beat, it might be true, but if you listen to the entire thing, it's obvious it's not. The fact that 75% of the people might not be able to distinguish between various d'n'b styles is most likely caused by the fact that they haven't heard much d'n'b or because they're not really interested. My mom was never able to distinguish between Foetus and Iron Maiden - to her it was all a bunch of a-tonal noise. Maarten -------------------------------------------------------- M a a r t e n D . S c h e r m e r e-mail: slavlab@xs4all.nl www: http://www.xs4all.nl/~slavlab a page full of sounds & records for sale --------------------------------------------------------

cl <clietz@enteract.com> wrote:

quoted 2 lines aware of the multiple categories, and have sampled some of each. i guess my

>aware of the multiple categories, and have sampled some of each. i guess my >point would be that after listening to the 3 panacea 12's on chrome there

just didnt

quoted 1 line seem to be much variation. does he (or they) have a unique sound? sure,

>seem to be much variation. does he (or they) have a unique sound? sure,

but i

quoted 1 line imagine a darkstep dj set would be an hour of songs that are pretty much

>imagine a darkstep dj set would be an hour of songs that are pretty much

like that.

quoted 2 lines the shelf life seems limited. on the other hand, breakbeat science 1+2 really

> the shelf life seems limited. on the other hand, breakbeat science 1+2 really >paints a better picture of what is out there at all points on the spectrum.

dnb will

quoted 1 line be around for a while, i just hope it avoids the trap of becoming

>be around for a while, i just hope it avoids the trap of becoming

formulated into

quoted 1 line drivel.

>drivel.

I agree - a lot of d+b artists seem to be falling into the same trap a lot of techno guys fell into. Once they've found a sound they are comfortable with, they stick with it for quite a while - and usually too long to remain really interesting. Ofcourse almost every band in every genre likes to develop its own specific style or trademark sound, but IMO it needs to be more than just variations on the same theme to remain interesting. How many Hardfloor records can the world stand? Panacea is a good example - the first 12" made me go "Yes!", but by the time the album came out, I knew the trick. I like his trademark louder-than-bombs production and sound, but I feel it could be so much more if he'd try to use it in different ways, rather than just hammering away all the time. Imagine something like Mirage's "Feel my dreams" (a dark tune by the boys of Source Direct with sparse beats that start and stop all the time, never really taking off, giving it a lingering and urgent feel, the need to do something - and do something quick! - but seeing no way out... whatever) with Panacea's production and sounds. It would be one frightening tune, different from the stuff he's done but still recognizable as Panacea. Development is the key, it seems to me. Maarten onnow: source direct - call & response -------------------------------------------------------- M a a r t e n D . S c h e r m e r e-mail: slavlab@xs4all.nl www: http://www.xs4all.nl/~slavlab a page full of sounds & records for sale --------------------------------------------------------

quoted 10 lines 12" made me go "Yes!", but by the time the album came out, I knew the trick

>12" made me go "Yes!", but by the time the album came out, I knew the trick. >I like his trademark louder-than-bombs production and sound, but I feel it >could be so much more if he'd try to use it in different ways, rather than >just hammering away all the time. Imagine something like Mirage's "Feel my >dreams" (a dark tune by the boys of Source Direct with sparse beats that >start and stop all the time, never really taking off, giving it a lingering >and urgent feel, the need to do something - and do something quick! - but >seeing no way out... whatever) with Panacea's production and sounds. It >would be one frightening tune, different from the stuff he's done but still >recognizable as Panacea. Development is the key, it seems to me.

I said "Yes!" when it came out also, but then I bought it and said "No!" after listening to the whole ep 3 or 4 times. __ __\ \ / /_\ \ \_____/ , m7=