IDM Mailing Archive

quoted 4 lines I would highly recommend checking out Fred Gianneli's music on +8 and on his

>I would highly recommend checking out Fred Gianneli's music on +8 and on his >own sublabel off of +8 which is called Telepathic. Many know the label by >the prominant catalog code of PSI which looks like LSD or actually "lSd" but >upside down.

Telepathic has been releasing some very nice stuff lately. The only reason I haven't bought any is because the price seems a little high and normally on a telepathic release there is only 2 tracks total. Also I find their pressing to be on nice thick vinyl but normally has a lot of bubbles in it. Telepathic Wisdom eh..... How long has this been out for???? rstride@wimsey.com http://www.wimsey.com/~rstride/index.html ad197@freenet.carleton.ca TCP/IP AM 12000 Internet Radio site Keep your ear to the ground...

WELL! i'm not sure how familiar with Fred's new stuff you are, but his latest bits out on PSI label are sum very good and orriginal hard acid techno...the first 12" he did on PSI - Painkiller (which iz wrongly credited to PTV as a whole band) was QUITE ahead of it's time when it came out 3 years ago... 'fraid i can't comment on fred's influence in earlier PTV material ... i'v grown BEYOND that muzick... as for the "Awful" fred "Rosebud" 12" .. i agree that there are sum bad songs on it but there are also sum descent toonz too... considdering when it came out... not compared to today's stuff... \ anyway... check out the Mazdarrati 12"s on PSI label... it's good shit ... PEACE...out...-M-13... On Wed, 8 Feb 1995 XdadaX@aol.com wrote:

quoted 6 lines I always felt that Gianelli's input in Psychic TV brought out the worst in

> > I always felt that Gianelli's input in Psychic TV brought out the worst in > their music. His Turning Shrines album on Temple is just awful and that is to > saying nothing of his absolutely horrible "Fred" album. > I can usually pick out which PTV tracks Fred contributed to because they are > almost always the least original sounding from an overall pretty good band.

XdadaX@aol.com wrote:

quoted 3 lines I always felt that Gianelli's input in Psychic TV brought out the worst in

>I always felt that Gianelli's input in Psychic TV brought out the worst in >their music. His Turning Shrines album on Temple is just awful and that is to >saying nothing of his absolutely horrible "Fred" album.

I would highly recommend checking out Fred Gianneli's music on +8 and on his own sublabel off of +8 which is called Telepathic. Many know the label by the prominant catalog code of PSI which looks like LSD or actually "lSd" but upside down. Most of it is experimental acid, some tracks are very soft, beautiful and trancey while others are kinda hard and more dancefloor oriented. It's different than most experimental and intelligent techno that's out there mostly because it's dance floor friendly. There is a CD compilation of most of the earlier works called "Telepathic Wisdom". I really like the past several singles that have come out on the label as there are quite a few artists on there including Mark Gage. I think Fred has improved a great deal and has done really well for himself. Check out the discography on hyperreal.

quoted 1 line As for PTV, they had an big influence on the acid-house scene.

>As for PTV, they had an big influence on the acid-house scene.

I'm so sick of hearing this... I have all the so called acid house records that PTV put out and only one of them has an actual 303 used in it was the remix of Tune In. Honestly, I have quite a few acid house records from 1986 until present day and I have yet to see the influence that Gen had on any of it. As for the scene, people were having acid house parties long before Gen came along and decided to call it all his own as he does with most trends be it raves, piercings or whatever. As Dana indicated, I have no tolerance for Mr. P'Orridge either. I've heard several bad rumours even about how he screwed Silent Records out of lots of money and why his wife Alaura left him but I'm not one for gossip. ___ / / / / / / _ __/ (_/__/ / (__ (__ ___/

On Wed, 8 Feb 1995, WILL-E wrote:

quoted 24 lines XdadaX@aol.com wrote:

> XdadaX@aol.com wrote: > >I always felt that Gianelli's input in Psychic TV brought out the worst in > >their music. His Turning Shrines album on Temple is just awful and that is to > >saying nothing of his absolutely horrible "Fred" album. > > I would highly recommend checking out Fred Gianneli's music on +8 and on his > own sublabel off of +8 which is called Telepathic. Many know the label by > the prominant catalog code of PSI which looks like LSD or actually "lSd" but > upside down. Most of it is experimental acid, some tracks are very soft, > beautiful and trancey while others are kinda hard and more dancefloor > oriented. It's different than most experimental and intelligent techno > that's out there mostly because it's dance floor friendly. There is a CD > compilation of most of the earlier works called "Telepathic Wisdom". I > really like the past several singles that have come out on the label as > there are quite a few artists on there including Mark Gage. > > I think Fred has improved a great deal and has done really well for himself. > Check out the discography on hyperreal. > > >As for PTV, they had an big influence on the acid-house scene. > > I'm so sick of hearing this... I have all the so called acid house records > that PTV put out and only one of them has an actual 303 used in it was the > remix of Tune In.

Maybe so, but back in the days of 1987-1989 acid house was terminology used to describe a whole music style, not just the 303 sound. The term acid was also used as slang to reffer to "burning" (stealing bits of other peoples records). Therefore records catorgorized as "Acid House" didn't necessarily have to be full on 303 assaults. Also the term "Acid" was mis/interpreted to relate to lsd, which regardless or not of proper use it had a big influence on the psychedelic properties addtributed to "Acid House" music and parties. Honestly, I have quite a few acid house records from 1986

quoted 8 lines until present day and I have yet to see the influence that Gen had on any of

> until present day and I have yet to see the influence that Gen had on any of > it. As for the scene, people were having acid house parties long before Gen > came along and decided to call it all his own as he does with most trends be > it raves, piercings or whatever. As Dana indicated, I have no tolerance for > Mr. P'Orridge either. I've heard several bad rumours even about how he > screwed Silent Records out of lots of money and why his wife Alaura left him > but I'm not one for gossip. >

Hey there, I don't know Genesis or anything but I feel he is one misunderstood guy. Therefore I will defend him a little bit. Here is the story i know on Gennesis's/ Psychic Tv's influence into the Acid House scence. When he/they were in Chicago they went into a few record stores and heard some acid house, they thought this is cool shit, so they bought about 3 crates full of records and brought them back to England. Most of these records were white labels with the words "Acid" stamped on them. So they thought this was a reference to "lsd" hence their "acid" music is more or less psychedelic rather than 303 tracks. Anyway at this time, a guy called Tim Sinemon (Bomb the Bass) was hanging around and babystitting Genesis's kids. Timmy was played a lot of those records and got a lot of ideas from them to make Bomb the Bass material such as "Beat This". I guess Mark Moore from S-Express also heard some of these tracks and started S-Express. Who really gives a shit about all this stuff, but to say that Psychic TV didn't contribute to "Acid House" would be an understatemnet in my opinion. Just thought I would share my views and shit with you. I personally think the limited definition of "acid" has hampered the creativiy and diverstity of tracks that are "Acid House" influenced. How about some 303 tracks that are not just variations of Phuture-Acid Tracks etc. Derek moses@teleport.com Inportland Techno Acid Ambient Mail Order DJ Rumpleforeskin Import Domestic Records-C.D.'s 0--\___/--\___/---0 phone/fax 503-620-3340 SUBMERGE TO THE DEEPEST DEPTHS IN ORDER THAT THE HIGHEST BE ELEVATED TO LIGHT *Alfred Rosenberg

On Wed, 8 Feb 1995, Derek Oliver wrote:

quoted 5 lines Maybe so, but back in the days of 1987-1989 acid house was terminology used

> Maybe so, but back in the days of 1987-1989 acid house was terminology used > to describe a whole music style, not just the 303 sound. The term acid > was also used as slang to reffer to "burning" (stealing bits of other > peoples records). Therefore records catorgorized as "Acid House" didn't > necessarily have to be full on 303 assaults.

Maybe this wis the (mis)terminology in the UK by some people, but there also very well informed people. Take A Guy Called Gerald for instance. He made classic acid tracks back in the day. Also the fella's that became Bizarre Inc. did a record in '88 called Acid Trance on Blue Chip that is a 303esque EP (it's not actually a 303 they used - if you know the sound well enough - it sounds more like a 101 or 202, but it's very good none the less). I remember some people calling Todd Terry Acid House back then, because it was repetitive sample based (wrongly stated as most now know). A very popular track in the UK at that time was Maurice - This is Acid, but the UK mixes were not even acidic. The original was true acid from Chicago on Chicago Trax.

quoted 4 lines Also the term "Acid" was

> Also the term "Acid" was > mis/interpreted to relate to lsd, which regardless or not of proper use > it had a big influence on the psychedelic properties addtributed to "Acid > House" music and parties.

Actually I read an article interviewing either Marshal Jefferson or DJ Pierre about the Warehouse in Chicago back then. Apparently Jefferson and Pierre gave Frankie Knuckles a reel to reel recording of Acid Tracks before they had named it (almost two years or something before it was pressed). This is still done to this day because last time I heard Frankis spin I saw him using reel to reel... Anyway Jefferson or Pierre went on to say in the interview that the water in the Warehouse was often spiked with LSD and when Knuckles would put on this track they wrote people would go absolutely ape shit on the dance floor. Pierre and Jefferson partially attributed the response to the track to the fact that people were tripping, so it was subsequently dubbed "acid music". Thus "Acid Tracks" became the record to define the sound. The rest is history so to speak.

quoted 3 lines all this stuff, but to say that Psychic TV didn't

> all this stuff, but to say that Psychic TV didn't > contribute to "Acid House" would be an > understatemnet in my opinion. Just thought I would

I don't see how influencing Tim Simenon or S-Express has anything to do with "Acid House" either. Clearly they never wrote anything close to acidic. Mind you they were dance and sample influence, but Todd Terry had an equal effect on the UK house/dance scene and his tracks are more aparent in the styles of early UK stuff.

quoted 2 lines House" influenced. How about some 303 tracks that are not just variations

> House" influenced. How about some 303 tracks that are not just variations > of Phuture-Acid Tracks etc.

Boy if you think all acid is a variation on Acid Tracks, you need to get out more. Try the Universal Indicator EP's. Not even close to Phuture's style. Check out the acid stuff on UR or other Submerge distributed stuff. Mad Mike tweaks a 303 that blows all others away. Also look into the German stuff like Dance Extasy 2000 (or is it 2001 - I can't remember). -robert ______________________________________________*AudioElectronic*_____ "If BOTH the SAW and the PULSE switches are on, sonic explorers \ then both sawtooth and pulse waves are selected. \ This combination creates an extremely fat sound." OB-8 manual ____\

On Thu, 9 Feb 1995, rbcIII wrote:

quoted 10 lines On Wed, 8 Feb 1995, Derek Oliver wrote:

> > On Wed, 8 Feb 1995, Derek Oliver wrote: > > > Maybe so, but back in the days of 1987-1989 acid house was terminology used > > to describe a whole music style, not just the 303 sound. The term acid > > was also used as slang to reffer to "burning" (stealing bits of other > > peoples records). Therefore records catorgorized as "Acid House" didn't > > necessarily have to be full on 303 assaults. > > Maybe this wis the (mis)terminology in the UK by some people,

this was used in Chicago as well but there

quoted 1 line also very well informed people.

> also very well informed people.

Back then Acid wasn't clearly defined like it is now (the sound of the 303), they were calling a lot of shit acid, even if it didn't have the 303. Maube this is wrong by todays standards, but looking back on it and saying these people didn't know what the fuck was going on just because they didn't use a 303 is wrong in my opinion. Take A Guy Called Gerald for instance.

quoted 1 line He made classic acid tracks back in the day.

> He made classic acid tracks back in the day.

Yeah, I know, Newbuild (him and 808 state) is one of my favorites, why? because it is much more complicated and has many more layers than most or all of the shit from Chicago. Also the fella's that

quoted 6 lines became Bizarre Inc. did a record in '88 called Acid Trance on Blue Chip

> became Bizarre Inc. did a record in '88 called Acid Trance on Blue Chip > that is a 303esque EP (it's not actually a 303 they used - if you know the > sound well enough - it sounds more like a 101 or 202, but it's very good > none the less). I remember some people calling Todd Terry Acid House > back then, because it was repetitive sample based (wrongly stated as > most now know).

"Acid house, if that is what you want to call it, has helped it branch out. I don't know what acid house is though. They put my music into a category, and gave it a label." Todd Terry, Option magazine JULY/AUG 1989. Anyway here is a couple big Todd Terry "acid house" records. Swan Lake-In The Name of Love, and Royal House-Can you Party, which was incidently sampled ultra-heavily to become Dave Clarks Red 2, which was hailed by some as the top track of 1994. How about that for influence. A very popular track in the UK at that time was Maurice

quoted 2 lines - This is Acid, but the UK mixes were not even acidic. The original was

> - This is Acid, but the UK mixes were not even acidic. The original was > true acid from Chicago on Chicago Trax.

Hell I haven't heard the Trax version but Maurice this is Acid is the Acid equivalant of Two Unlimited in my as well as others opinions. The guy who made that track, Marice Joshua, has done some fairly underground shit, but that one was made for the charts. (Any song that says "This is Acid" or "This is Techno" just doesn't seem underground to me. Yeah, I have a lot of the old shit on Blue Chip as well, that was some cool shit, take the Smiley Peoples It makes me happy for instance.

quoted 19 lines Also the term "Acid" was

> > > Also the term "Acid" was > > mis/interpreted to relate to lsd, which regardless or not of proper use > > it had a big influence on the psychedelic properties addtributed to "Acid > > House" music and parties. > > Actually I read an article interviewing either Marshal Jefferson or DJ > Pierre about the Warehouse in Chicago back then. Apparently Jefferson > and Pierre gave Frankie Knuckles a reel to reel recording of Acid Tracks > before they had named it (almost two years or something before it was > pressed). This is still done to this day because last time I heard > Frankis spin I saw him using reel to reel... Anyway Jefferson or Pierre > went on to say in the interview that the water in the Warehouse was often > spiked with LSD and when Knuckles would put on this track they wrote > people would go absolutely ape shit on the dance floor. Pierre and > Jefferson partially attributed the response to the track to the fact that > people were tripping, so it was subsequently dubbed "acid music". Thus > "Acid Tracks" became the record to define the sound. The rest is history > so to speak.

Cool, that is another reason that acid house did not just neccesarily refer to the 303.>

quoted 7 lines all this stuff, but to say that Psychic TV didn't

> > all this stuff, but to say that Psychic TV didn't > > contribute to "Acid House" would be an > > understatemnet in my opinion. Just thought I would > > I don't see how influencing Tim Simenon or S-Express has anything to do > with "Acid House" either. Clearly they never wrote anything close to > acidic.

They sure did, listen to Bomb the Bass Into the Dragon lp or the Fluffy Bagel Mix of Theme from S-Express, and you will see what I mean. They also contributed loads to the hype surrounding acid house, regardless of whether this is good or bad, it made an impact on where we are today. Mind you they were dance and sample influence, but Todd Terry

quoted 12 lines had an equal effect on the UK house/dance scene and his tracks are more

> had an equal effect on the UK house/dance scene and his tracks are more > aparent in the styles of early UK stuff. > > > House" influenced. How about some 303 tracks that are not just variations > > of Phuture-Acid Tracks etc. > > Boy if you think all acid is a variation on Acid Tracks, you need to get > out more. Try the Universal Indicator EP's. Not even close to Phuture's > style. Check out the acid stuff on UR or other Submerge distributed > stuff. Mad Mike tweaks a 303 that blows all others away. Also look into > the German stuff like Dance Extasy 2000 (or is it 2001 - I can't remember). >

I know it is a generalization, but the opinion with a lot of people is that it has to be a 303 with an 808/909 to classify as acid exclusively. It was a shitty generalization, sorry. As far as getting out more and hearing the shit you mentioned, thank you but I have heard them. I like them as well. When I was speaking of acid house, I was speaking of underground electronic and sample based house music from 1987-1989, that was (wrongly?) classified as acid house at the time. I think are main argument lies in our definitions. I don't mean to come off as a name dropping know it all either, I just say it as i interpret it, and my opinions are not meant in any way to be viewed as personal attacks. I get off on these little discussions, thanks for the reply. Derek

quoted 7 lines -robert

> -robert > ______________________________________________*AudioElectronic*_____ > "If BOTH the SAW and the PULSE switches are on, sonic explorers \ > then both sawtooth and pulse waves are selected. \ > This combination creates an extremely fat sound." OB-8 manual ____\ > >

moses@teleport.com Inportland Techno Acid Ambient Mail Order DJ Rumpleforeskin Import Domestic Records-C.D.'s 0--\___/--\___/---0 phone/fax 503-620-3340 SUBMERGE TO THE DEEPEST DEPTHS IN ORDER THAT THE HIGHEST BE ELEVATED TO LIGHT *Alfred Rosenberg

Just my $.02 to this discussion, no real new ground perhaps, But to me the "Acid" scene which developed in the UK basically in 88 had nothing to do with what by then I considered to be the acid sound -ie the raw 303 trax from er, Trax mainly. I remember reading in some mag near the end of 87 a prediction that "Acid will re-emerge in a less underground form" and I thought "no", cos the sound was just to un-commercial and seemed to have burned out - most of the early acid trax were fairly similar (like with any style, most of it was fairly generic) And the popularity had faded slightly. But then for reasons already discussed, the name got applied to the culture of "Acid House Parties" (yes they were called that by those who went to them, for a while!) drugs, smileys, bandanas and day-glo clothing, and the music itself? Well I though most of the so-called "Acid" coming from the UK at the time (eg D Mob) was crap (Just like most of the early UK house in 87 was crap compared to the "real" Chicago stuff) (or Detroit for that matter). And it's true, the music of Todd Terry was massively influential at this time. "Can You Party" with it House Music Anthem sample and sirens was the "Acid House" anthem. btw the Maurice track mentioned was on the "Pump Up <insert geographic region>" comp on A&M/breakout, but the remixes on the UK 12" were half-baked clones of the Todd Terry sound. The real acid sound (ie 303) almost completely disappeared from the shelves, appearing briefly in tracks from people like Ten City, but it was a long time before the (by then) techno scene grabbed back hold of it, with a pretty big chunk of help from Hardfloor. No flames - come on face it "Acperience" might not have been the first resurgence acid track (I don't know what was?) but it sure was the first big one. more than 2 cents, perhaps a shilling or two? J ^ James Skilton aka Steady J - jamess@firefox.co.uk ^---+ What's in the basket? My Brother!

On Thu, 9 Feb 1995, Derek Oliver wrote:

quoted 2 lines Maybe this wis the (mis)terminology in the UK by some people,

> > Maybe this wis the (mis)terminology in the UK by some people, > this was used in Chicago as well

To refer to repetitive sample filled tracks? Hmm. That's strange. Very interesting.

quoted 3 lines Yeah, I know, Newbuild (him and 808 state) is one of my favorites, why?

> Yeah, I know, Newbuild (him and 808 state) is one of my favorites, why? > because it is much more complicated and has many more layers than most or > all of the shit from Chicago.

Check out Armando's stuff on Warehouse Records like World Unknown... Very layered acid. Or Charles B - Lack Of Love.

quoted 3 lines "Acid house, if that is what you want to call it, has helped it branch

> "Acid house, if that is what you want to call it, has helped it branch > out. I don't know what acid house is though. They put my music into a > category, and gave it a label." Todd Terry, Option magazine JULY/AUG 1989.

I remember a similar quote by Joey Beltram in respose to a question about "Rave Music". He said something to the effect that the US tends distort trends and styles that come from the UK (which it turn were distorted from the US underground in this case). He called his stuff "Hard Core" at the time because in '89-'90 it was. Today to us it's rather mild though.

quoted 4 lines Anyway here is a couple big Todd Terry "acid house" records. Swan

> Anyway here is a couple big Todd Terry "acid house" records. Swan > Lake-In The Name of Love, and Royal House-Can you Party, which was > incidently sampled ultra-heavily to become Dave Clarks Red 2, which was > hailed by some as the top track of 1994. How about that for influence.

Oh yes. I agree those were VERY influential tracks, but mislabelled as acid as Todd so put it himself. Remember acid was a Chicago underground thing and Todd is a New York/Brooklyn producer/writer. He probably hardly considered it house at the time. You can hear the hip-hop influence emerge in his later tracks.

quoted 4 lines Hell I haven't heard the Trax version but Maurice this is Acid is the Acid

> Hell I haven't heard the Trax version but Maurice this is Acid is the Acid > equivalant of Two Unlimited in my as well as others opinions. The > guy who made that track, Marice Joshua, has done some fairly underground > shit, but that one was made for the charts.

AHA! Yes the UK release was on A&M and was remixed by David Morales or someone like that, so it's not even true to the original intent. You really should hunt down the Chicago Trax version. It's classic acid. I remember having a conversation about this very topic with Maurice himself. He went on some rediculous tour with a dance troup around the US to promote his later group Mourice and Da Posse or something. I guess he had signed with a major. Anyway I asked him what happened to the acid bit in This is Acid and he said "Yeah, that's a big joke back in Chicago because the popular version was remixed by some guy in the UK and wasn't even an acid track..."

quoted 2 lines (Any song that says "This is

> (Any song that says "This is > Acid" or "This is Techno" just doesn't seem underground to me. Yeah,

You should take a listen to Creator by Phuture. All it practically is are vocals saying Acid House, Acid House... over and over. Or what about Acid Thunder by DJ Fast Eddie? There's a mix called the A-A-A-A-CID Mix that's has a female vocal sample saying just that.

quoted 2 lines I have a lot of the old shit on Blue Chip as well, that was some

> I have a lot of the old shit on Blue Chip as well, that was some > cool shit, take the Smiley Peoples It makes me happy for instance.

Yep. That's a single from Acid Trance. Take a hard listen. That's no 303. It's a 101 or 202 for sure. A 101 most likely because the portamento is not like a 202. Check out the credits. Do you have any Bizarre Inc. stuff? They're the same blokes.

quoted 2 lines Cool, that is another reason that acid house did not just neccesarily

> Cool, that is another reason that acid house did not just neccesarily > refer to the 303.>

True, but the 303 lines in acid tracks did conjure up frenzied dance floors...

quoted 1 line They sure did, listen to Bomb the Bass Into the Dragon lp

> They sure did, listen to Bomb the Bass Into the Dragon lp

I will. It'll take me some time to dig it up though. It's in the piles of records pretty deep. ;)

quoted 3 lines They

> They > also contributed loads to the hype surrounding acid house, regardless of > whether this is good or bad, it made an impact on where we are today.

True they did add to the hype, but people eventually figured it out in the end didn't they? We all know what acid is know don't we? Esp. with 303 prices shooting up above $700!

quoted 14 lines I know it is a generalization, but the opinion with a lot of people is

> I know it is a generalization, but the opinion with a lot of people is > that it has to be a 303 with an 808/909 to classify as acid > exclusively. It was a shitty generalization, sorry. As far as getting > out more and hearing the shit you mentioned, thank you but I have heard > them. I like them as well. > > When I was speaking of acid house, I was speaking of underground > electronic and sample based house music from 1987-1989, that was (wrongly?) > classified > as acid house at the time. I think are main argument lies in our > definitions. I don't mean to come off as a name dropping know it all > either, I just say it as i interpret it, and my opinions are not meant in > any way to be viewed as personal attacks. I get off on these little > discussions, thanks for the reply.

I like these discussions too. It always seems so confusing when classifying and categorizing anything. People have so many different ideas. I parallel this sort of stuff with art. There were groups of people in the art world that emerged at specific times. Quite often they formulated a manifesto of some sort... Anyway it is hard to ignore the Chicago acid scene of '86-'88. There are enough records to define a style. And it was dominated by the 303. I think most would agree that the GPO/PTV emergence of acid whatever was a distortion of the original concept. They were nothing like the Chicago acid. -robert ______________________________________________*AudioElectronic*_____ "If BOTH the SAW and the PULSE switches are on, sonic explorers \ then both sawtooth and pulse waves are selected. \ This combination creates an extremely fat sound." OB-8 manual ____\

Just a bit more.

quoted 7 lines Oh yes. I agree those were VERY influential tracks, but mislabelled as

> > Oh yes. I agree those were VERY influential tracks, but mislabelled as > acid as Todd so put it himself. Remember acid was a Chicago underground > thing and Todd is a New York/Brooklyn producer/writer. He probably > hardly considered it house at the time. You can hear the hip-hop > influence emerge in his later tracks. >

I can recall when first hearing Todd Terry, thinking "this isn't house" (let alone "this isn't acid") cos my ears were fine-tuned to the Chicago sound. Yeah and his earlier LPs (Royal House, TT Project) include hip-hop style tracks. Oh, and evne though I did buy some crap back then I never found myself buying any PTV/GPO related stuff back in 88 or whenever. As far as I'm concerned that says it all. J ^ James Skilton aka Steady J - jamess@firefox.co.uk ^---+ What's in the basket? My Brother!

Will-E says:

quoted 2 lines I think Fred has improved a great deal and has done really well for himself.

>>I think Fred has improved a great deal and has done really well for himself. >>Check out the discography on hyperreal.

Maybe he has improved..he had nowhere to go but up.

quoted 1 line As for PTV, they had an big influence on the acid-house scene.

>As for PTV, they had an big influence on the acid-house scene.

quoted 6 lines I'm so sick of hearing this...

>>I'm so sick of hearing this... >>I have all the so called acid house records >>that PTV put out and only one of them has an actual 303 used in it was the >>remix of Tune In. Honestly, I have quite a few acid house records from 1986 >>until present day and I have yet to see the influence that Gen had on any of >>it.

It's too bad your sick of hearing it because there is truth to the statement that PTV had an influential effect on the acid-house scene. Maybe you weren't \ around at the time. You can't just pull out a few records and make pronouncements based on what you hear years after the fact. For those of us who were around at the height of the acid-house scene it's obvious PTV played a role. To say otherwise because you happen to not like Mr. P-Orridge is rather weak. I'm not saying PTV were *the* innovators of acid-house but they did play a role in the "scene."

quoted 3 lines As for the scene, people were having acid house parties long before Gen

>>As for the scene, people were having acid house parties long before Gen >>came along and decided to call it all his own as he does with most trends be >>it raves, piercings or whatever.

Yeah right. It was his band (TG) that has had one of the biggest far-reaching influences on modern underground (and even not so underground) music. I guess TG were bandwagon jumpers as well....

quoted 4 lines As Dana indicated, I have no tolerance for

>>As Dana indicated, I have no tolerance for >>Mr. P'Orridge either. I've heard several bad rumours even about how he >>screwed Silent Records out of lots of money and why his wife Alaura left him >>but I'm not one for gossip.

If you are not one for gossip why spread rumors as you just have. If you have facts, fine...make them public but to make comments like these that you clearly state are rumors is again weak. I'm not one of these idiots who worships everything Genesis does but one has to admit he and TG/PTV have had a major impact on underground music if one is even the least bit objective. Goethe

Derek Oliver <moses@teleport.com> writes:

quoted 1 line Who really gives a shit about all this stuff, but to say that Psychic TV

>Who really gives a shit about all this stuff, but to say that Psychic TV

didn't

quoted 1 line contribute to "Acid House" would be an understatemnet in my opinion.

>contribute to "Acid House" would be an understatemnet in my opinion.

Well the story about how they influenced a few other artists is interesting but indirect. My point was that GPO & PTV didn't have much of a *direct* influence on the acid house scene. How many acid house parties did they organize and throw themselves? How many of their records did you hear on the dancefloor? I've been going out dancing religiously since 1985 and I heard a hell of a lot of acid house in my time. When I moved to England, I lived in Brighton which is where GPO was living at the time. As a big fan at the time, I ended up meeting a lot of his close personal friends. I even went to several acid house revival parties and to this day, the most I ever heard or saw of his contributions was when I heard the acid house remix of "Tune In" at a small party once, a couple of weak PTV concerts and a few private parties at his house near Lewes. People keep saying how influential they were but I didn't see it anywhere. How long have they been doing dance music? If you look at their history, the only time they swayed from industrial was when Fred Gianneli joined the band in the late eighties which is what helped influence them in that direction. Even then, Jack the Tab was a pretty lame excuse for acid house if you ask me. As for the rumours about GPO the person, I just wanted to say that I know a lot about him and I could say a lot of bad things about him but I won't because there's no need to get personal. I just find it sick that so many people worship the ground he walks on, particularly TOPY memembers who think he invented acid house and invented raves and invented body piercings and so much more when they don't even know him. Throbbing Gristle however did invent industrial music and was very influential in many ways so I do give him credit for that but that was a group effort and a whole different story altogether. ___ / / / / / / _ __/ (_/__/ / (__ (__ ___/

quoted 1 line Oh, and evne though I did buy some crap back then I never found myself buying

>Oh, and evne though I did buy some crap back then I never found myself buying

any PTV/GPO related stuff back in 88 or whenever. As far as I'm concerned that says it all. I would be the first to say that some of the PTV acid house material was crap but some of it was well-done even if some people might not consider it to be acid house in the technical sense of what it means today. To say *all* of it was crap just says to me that those who make these statements haven't heard all of the material PTV produced in their "acid-house" phase. Goethe

quoted 3 lines Oh, and evne though I did buy some crap back then I never found myself buying

>Oh, and evne though I did buy some crap back then I never found myself buying > any PTV/GPO related stuff back in 88 or whenever. As far as I'm concerned that > says it all.

The only one I ever bought was the Tune In - Turn On with the peace sign on the label. I remember everyone was hot for the one with Superman on the label, but I don't know the difference. Lots of other stuff I bought from that era stands up much better to it (esp. 808state's NewBuild). I even got Global Humaniod before the big FSOL craze. That's pretty cheezy too though. -robert ______________________________________________*AudioElectronic*_____ "If BOTH the SAW and the PULSE switches are on, sonic explorers \ then both sawtooth and pulse waves are selected. \ This combination creates an extremely fat sound." OB-8 manual ____\