IDM Mailing Archive

quoted 3 lines I think for a clear understanding of what is appropiate for IDM, we should

>I think for a clear understanding of what is appropiate for IDM, we should >all go back and read the Welcome Message that Fluid posted a few days ago. >IMHO, it *clearly* outlines what IDM is.

Does that mean that this list will cease to exist when Warp discontinues the AI series?.. Also, I think much of Aphex Twin fails this criterion.. There's nothing "intelligent" about most all of his music.. If the only thing people want to gab about is schlock like Authecre and Seefeel, I'm outta here.. Autechre's music has the complexity level of most gabber records, all loops with lots of effects.. I think I smell a rat.. I wish some people on this list would impress me with their knowledge of music beyond Warp, Rephlex, FFRR, and whatever crud label FSOLs on, releases.. I haven't been able to hit the shops since spring break, and I still feel as though I'm about four steps ahead of the discussion.. I really don't think that members of this group are in any position to get snotty about limits of discussion. ** ******** ********** ********** ******** **Born.Under.A.Rhyming.Planet. +8 Records, Chicago, Il.

On 19 May 1994, Jamie M. Hodge wrote:

quoted 2 lines Does that mean that this list will cease to exist when Warp

> Does that mean that this list will cease to exist when Warp > discontinues the AI series?..

Where on earth do you get your logic to come to this conclusion?

quoted 2 lines Also, I think much of Aphex Twin fails this criterion.. There's

> Also, I think much of Aphex Twin fails this criterion.. There's >nothing "intelligent" about most all of his music..

Well to me, a lot of experimental and ambient music falls under the heading of IDM. Warps AI series is what could be called "intelligent listening music", and incase you didnt notice, the list is called "intelligent dance music." This is how I see artists like Mu-Ziq and Aphex Twin being relevant as opposed to artists like Moby or the Arpeggiators. Im not willing to tell you, however, that your music isn't "intelligent" if you think it is. But, music such as Gabber and Breakbeat is not relevant and should be avoided. There are limits.

quoted 3 lines the only thing people want to gab about is schlock like Authecre and Seefeel,

> the only thing people want to gab about is schlock like Authecre and Seefeel, > I'm outta here.. Autechre's music has the complexity level of most gabber > records, all loops with lots of effects..

Thats your opinion and thats fine. But if you don't like what we talk about, then leave.

quoted 3 lines I think I smell a rat.. I wish some people on this list would impress

> I think I smell a rat.. I wish some people on this list would impress > me with their knowledge of music beyond Warp, Rephlex, FFRR, and > whatever crud label FSOLs on,

I'm sure they will if it is relevant to IDM. If you want to hear people talk about Industrial Strength however, I suggest you go look somewhere else.

quoted 2 lines I really don't think that members of this group are in any position to

> I really don't think that members of this group are in any position to > get snotty about limits of discussion.

Wrong. There are limits to discussion. Start talking about what your having for dinner tonight or yugoslavian politics and your off. Im not trying to do anything mean here, I just wish you could respect the limits of the list and the mailboxes of the 260+ people subscribed. Of course side-topics are going to come along occasionly, and that fine. Just be nice and play fair. your wanker admin, flu'id _______ (__,-, \ / /\ \ f l u i d <finger me for PGP key> /,_) \ \ flu'id (floo'-) (/ \\ brit@chopin.udel.edu :65 FD F9 9F F2 23 F8 CF: \) fluid@freezer.cns.udel.edu :80 9C 11 AA 9F 92 0D 27:

quoted 17 lines On 19 May 1994, Jamie M. Hodge wrote:

> > > On 19 May 1994, Jamie M. Hodge wrote: > > > Does that mean that this list will cease to exist when Warp > > discontinues the AI series?.. > > Where on earth do you get your logic to come to this conclusion? > > > Also, I think much of Aphex Twin fails this criterion.. There's > >nothing "intelligent" about most all of his music.. > > Well to me, a lot of experimental and ambient music falls under the > heading of IDM. Warps AI series is what could be called "intelligent > listening music", and incase you didnt notice, the list is called > "intelligent dance music." This is how I see artists like Mu-Ziq and Aphex > Twin being relevant as opposed to artists like Moby or the Arpeggiators.

Moby and Arpeggiators are music of course, and mostly dance, so what are you implying, floo? :) Anyways, Moby has some decent ambient stuff...lotsa 606 sounding stuff too.

quoted 3 lines Im not willing to tell you, however, that your music isn't "intelligent"

> Im not willing to tell you, however, that your music isn't "intelligent" > if you think it is. But, music such as Gabber and Breakbeat is not > relevant and should be avoided. There are limits.

Agreed. But the "Age of Trance" compilation CD which I suggested in my last post has the subtitle "a new generation of intelligenct dancemusic" Many times it's been suggested to do away with labels -- trying to use terms to define music. I say forums should be define by giving artists' names as examples. There's plenty of examples...these should be used moreso than genre names. Then again, what do I know...? It's up to you. -djkc

On Fri, 20 May 1994, djkc wrote:

quoted 5 lines Moby and Arpeggiators are music of course, and mostly dance, so what are you

> > Moby and Arpeggiators are music of course, and mostly dance, so what are you > implying, floo? :) Anyways, Moby has some decent ambient stuff...lotsa 606 > sounding stuff too. >

I thought Moby's ambient thing was complete crap. It sounded to me like it was made by someone in a completely different mindframe than "ambience", trying to make something that someone told him was "cool". Scenario... Moby: "I'm out of new ideas." (like thousand, bleah!) Moby's Friend: "I heard some ambient stuff that was pretty cool." Moby: "OK. I'll try it." How can any New Yorker make "ambient" music? There's no place in New York to even relax enough. New Yorkers make great aggressive music though. -robert

Rbc III sez:

quoted 3 lines I thought Moby's ambient thing was complete crap. It sounded to me like

> I thought Moby's ambient thing was complete crap. It sounded to me like > it was made by someone in a completely different mindframe than > "ambience", trying to make something that someone told him was "cool".

I've got an email that Moby sent to a friend that basically states that his ambient album/cd was not authorized by him. It was constructed of demos and done without his permission. And he isn't pleased with how it came out either. I've written it off myself based on that knowledge. If Richard Hall had some demos turned into a release without his permission, and it's crap, well, I can see why. Andrew -- (c) 1994, Andrew Bennett abennett@phoenix.aps.muohio.edu

Dans la Matrice, Jamie M. Hodge a dit:

quoted 3 lines Does that mean that this list will cease to exist when Warp

> > Does that mean that this list will cease to exist when Warp > discontinues the AI series?

Well, i think that Fluid's point when he started this list was precisely for these. Kinda like the KLF list is for KLF related stuff. KLF are not doing music anymore, the list is still going on. I guess it would have been clearer to do a list named warp (like the ztt, 4ad etc... lists). For record recommendations, i'd guess the dj list would be a pretty good place, and if you want to stay with ravers, then maybe ask on a list such as ne-raves? In any case, either it's just for warp AI artists, or there is just no limit to what can be included. There shouldn't be half-measures. Now, i feel a flame fest coming and i'm going away for a week so i'll unsubscribe else my acount will get shut down. So if you want to answer to this, cc it to me also. Ciao, -- Francois Dion ' IdMEDIA \ Managing: \ Publishing: \ Specialising: CP 312 \ Equation de Base \ Cybernaute \ Multimedia & Telecom St-Lambert, QC \ Francois Dion \ IDM Software \ design, publishing & Canada, J4P 3P8 \ Fuzzy Logic \ Raving Up North \ testing(hard/software)

On Thu, 19 May 1994, Francois Dion wrote:

quoted 2 lines Well, i think that Fluid's point when he started this list was precisely

> Well, i think that Fluid's point when he started this list was precisely > for these.

Not *just* the AI series, I just stated that these are prime examples.

quoted 1 line KLF are not doing music anymore, the list is still going on.

>KLF are not doing music anymore, the list is still going on.

They are, kinda. The K-Foundation have released at least one record..

quoted 2 lines In any case, either it's just for warp AI artists, or there is just no limit

> In any case, either it's just for warp AI artists, or there is just no limit > to what can be included. There shouldn't be half-measures.

Now I dont understand this part in the slightest. Just Warps AI series artists or everyone? how on earth does that make sense? The list is called IDM - not the Warp AI list, and not the no limits list. There are limits and it doesnt stop at Warp. How about on the sfraves list we only talk about raves that occur in berkeley and cost under $5. Or maybe their should be no limits, I mean sf has a great death rock scene too. Hmmmm. Anyone got the address again? :P _______ (__,-, \ / /\ \ f l u i d <finger me for PGP key> /,_) \ \ flu'id (floo'-) (/ \\ brit@chopin.udel.edu :65 FD F9 9F F2 23 F8 CF: \) fluid@freezer.cns.udel.edu :80 9C 11 AA 9F 92 0D 27:

(Sorry for the repost -- i messed up the addressed)

quoted 2 lines In any case, either it's just for warp AI artists, or there is just no limit

> In any case, either it's just for warp AI artists, or there is just no limit > to what can be included.

Wrong. It's not limited to warp ai artists. It is limited to music that belongs to the genre known as "intelligent techno" (or "intelligent dance music"), which is typified -- but not limited to -- the Warp AI series. Cosmic

Now that I've read this by itself, I have more to say: Jamie Hodge wrote:

quoted 10 lines I think for a clear understanding of what is appropiate for IDM, we should

> > >I think for a clear understanding of what is appropiate for IDM, we should > >all go back and read the Welcome Message that Fluid posted a few days ago. > >IMHO, it *clearly* outlines what IDM is. > > Does that mean that this list will cease to exist when Warp > discontinues the AI series?.. Also, I think much of Aphex Twin fails this > criterion.. There's nothing "intelligent" about most all of his music.. If > the only thing people want to gab about is schlock like Authecre and Seefeel, > I'm outta here..

What would you like this list to be gabbing about? Make some suggestions.

quoted 2 lines Autechre's music has the complexity level of most gabber

> Autechre's music has the complexity level of most gabber > records, all loops with lots of effects.. I think I smell a rat..

Yikes. Well, if it's such inferior music, Jamie, then what sort of music is it that you're into? Examples? What is it called, or 'labeled'? Breakbeat by chance? Autechre "all loops with lots of effects" my ass! Oh, you must listen to Classical... Well, this isn't the right email list for that.

quoted 3 lines I wish some

> I wish some > people on this list would impress me with their knowledge of music beyond > Warp, Rephlex, FFRR, and whatever crud label FSOLs on, releases..

Go ahead! Why don't YOU impress US with whatever knowledge of music that you listen to? It seems that all this is list is about is schlock artists and their uncomplex music put out on crud labels, according to you... SO..Why don't you share with us the REAL DEAL? What are we missing out on? You make it sound as though there is far more superior music out there, and I'd be really interested in hearing about it! You're on this list for SOME reason, why not share with us? Seriously.

quoted 5 lines I haven't

> I haven't > been able to hit the shops since spring break, and I still feel as though I'm > about four steps ahead of the discussion.. I really don't think that members > of this group are in any position to get snotty about limits of discussion. >

I'm really eager to find out what it is you buy. -djkc

quoted 3 lines Does that mean that this list will cease to exist when Warp

> Does that mean that this list will cease to exist when Warp > discontinues the AI series?.. Also, I think much of Aphex Twin fails this > criterion.. There's nothing "intelligent" about most all of his music..

You're falling into the trap of thinking that the "intelligent" in IDM is a value judgement. It isn't, and I would argue it isn't even a useful descriptiion. There is a particular set of styles of electronic music which the music press, in their infinitesimal wisdom and constant desire to pigeon-hole, dubbed "intelligent techno" (this list seems to prefer the moniker "IDM" -- I regard the two as synonymous). It may not be a good name, but it's the name that's stuck for this style of music. I have a strong feeling that if the music press had given this genre some meaningless name (such as "xyzzy") the arguments about what music was and wasn't xyzzy would be far less heated. If you don't like xyzzy music, fine, you don't have to. But xyzzy is no more intelligent than trance, techno, rock or anything else. It's just a style of music. All these genres contain both highly creative works and completely uninteresting dross. Jusrt my thoughts, Cosmic

From the cyberdesk of: Jamie M. Hodge

quoted 2 lines Does that mean that this list will cease to exist when Warp

> Does that mean that this list will cease to exist when Warp > discontinues the AI series?.. Also, I think much of Aphex Twin fails this

....[excellent stuff deleted] Bravo! You tell 'em. 'Bout time somebody talked about the emperor's clothes. As for saying "We'll bump you off if you don't like our 'Warp/Aphex list-admin ass-kisser's fan club'" is really doing the members and potential members a sad disservice by claiming a name so non-relevant to the real agenda of "Floo & Chris' elitist Warp/Aphex masturbatorium". Hardly "Intelligent Dance Music". Hardly "open for discussion and opinions" as you state in your lengthy [yawn] opening dissertation. What a great list this used to be until lately, now that it seems to be mired in its own morality. Especially saddening is that this holier-than-thou crap is being instigated by the admins of this list. Y'all are just too qool for me. I'm going back to lurking now.... ObIDM: Can anyone post some current really really good IDM comps? I can't afford to get all those CDs. Oh, and I only have a Tower Records nearby, so I can't get any of that vinyl-only import micro-label 500-copy only stuff y'all brag so much about. Thanks. Oh, don't suggest any of that "ambient" crap. I like to DANCE to my INTELLIGENT DANCE MUSIC. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael King mike%delta1@rex.cs.tulane.edu Delta Systems New Orleans, LA 70002-4938 Voice: 504.837.9835 Fax: 504.837.9838 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- One in twelve people is mentally unstable. Think of your eleven closest friends; if they seem ok . . . . . ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Fri, 20 May 1994, Michael King wrote:

quoted 2 lines Bravo! You tell 'em. 'Bout time somebody talked about the emperor's

> Bravo! You tell 'em. 'Bout time somebody talked about the emperor's > clothes.

Bravo indeed.

quoted 4 lines As for saying "We'll bump you off if you don't like our 'Warp/Aphex

> As for saying "We'll bump you off if you don't like our 'Warp/Aphex > list-admin ass-kisser's fan club'" is really doing the members and potential > members a sad disservice by claiming a name so non-relevant to the real > agenda of "Floo & Chris' elitist Warp/Aphex masturbatorium".

Hehe. Firstly, Chris Hilker is not a listadmin, but a good friend with plenty to contribute. As I've said before, the list I wanted to create was originally going to be only for the works of RDJ and, therefore, you can expect a lot of RDJ talk on the list. As for this warp-centrism, I really dont understand where this attitude comes from. I know that there are a lot of people here who liked at least some or all of the series but if you've been here any length of time, you'd know we've talked about a million other things since our beginnings. Maybe you should read the archives..

quoted 4 lines Hardly "Intelligent Dance Music". Hardly "open for discussion and opinions&

> Hardly "Intelligent Dance Music". Hardly "open for discussion and opinions" > as you state in your lengthy [yawn] opening dissertation. What a great > list this used to be until lately, now that it seems to be mired in its > own morality.

Opinions and discussions are fine as long as they relate to IDM. I liked the nice [yawn] effect in that sentence by the way..

quoted 2 lines Especially saddening is that this holier-than-thou crap is

> Especially saddening is that this holier-than-thou crap is > being instigated by the admins of this list.

If holier-than-thou means reminding a few certain people that Lenny Dee and what-headshell-should-I-use-on-my-1200s threads are not appropriate then, good. Am I doing this for my own benefit? partly, yes. But im also looking out for the other 250+ people on the list who are here to talk about IDM.

quoted 3 lines I only have a Tower Records nearby, so I can't get any of that

> I only have a Tower Records nearby, so I can't get any of that > vinyl-only import micro-label 500-copy only stuff y'all brag so much > about.

You could always mail-order ;) _______ (__,-, \ / /\ \ f l u i d <finger me for PGP key> /,_) \ \ flu'id (floo'-) (/ \\ brit@chopin.udel.edu :65 FD F9 9F F2 23 F8 CF: \) fluid@freezer.cns.udel.edu :80 9C 11 AA 9F 92 0D 27:

quoted 3 lines I wish some people on this list would impress me with their knowledge of

> I wish some people on this list would impress me with their knowledge of > music beyond Warp, Rephlex, FFRR, and whatever crud label FSOLs on, > releases..

I must have missed the paragraph in the intro message explaining that the rest of us are here to keep you entertained. -- Lazlo (lazlo@xmission.com)

From the cyberdesk of: Lazlo Nibble

quoted 6 lines I'm hardly advocating discourse on WWS Pussy, or any such gabber

> > I'm hardly advocating discourse on WWS Pussy, or any such gabber > > nonsense.. I am however asking that the discussion of IDM include less > > predictable artists. > > Once again -- unless I missed a memo, nobody here is being paid to keep > the list filled with Things Jamie Wants To Read About.

The same can be said for Floo and Chris Hilker. Why didn't they call it the "Floo & Chris Fan Club" instead of IDM, then? I'm not being paid to pat them on the back in a long drawn out self-congratulatory chat-fest, either.

quoted 2 lines If you want more discussion of <X>, then start talking about <X>, and if

> If you want more discussion of <X>, then start talking about <X>, and if > anyone else is interested they'll start talking about it too.

Except if Chris or Floo claim "open minds" on one hand, and exercise dictatorial censorship on the other. i.e. As long as <X> refers to a recording artist with a track on Warp's Artificial Intelligence CD (or a topic about We're-ever-so-much-more-hip-than-you-because-we-run-this-list- so-we-decide-what-is-hip). The only thing hip about Floo & Chris's latest jihad to "enlighten" us sinners for having interests outside of Warp's AI series is that some of us recognize it for the big pile of hypocritical horse excrement it really is.

quoted 1 line If that doesn't work, well, you'll just have to start the "Records-That-

> If that doesn't work, well, you'll just have to start the "Records-That-

Came-Out-Within-The-Past-Week-And-I'm-Ever-So-Much-More-Hip-Than-You Because-I-Heard-About-Them-Before-You-Did" list. Or you could start the "Intelligent-Dance-Music-List-That-Really-IS-About- Intelligent-Dance-Music-And-Really-Does-Have-People-With-Minds-Open-To-New- Ideas-Instead-Of-That-"WARP-Recording-Artists-Only"-List-That-Pretends- To-Be-About-IDM-" list. Why don't Floo & Chris just shut down IDM and start the Warp-list. That way myself and others who feel this way (and potential subscribers) won't feel so........deceived. What's so intelligent about a list whose discussion centers around something other than what its name would indicate? If IDM is *not* a forum about IDM, then don't call it that. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael King mike%delta1@rex.cs.tulane.edu Delta Systems New Orleans, LA 70002-4938 Voice: 504.837.9835 Fax: 504.837.9838 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- One in twelve people is mentally unstable. Think of your eleven closest friends; if they seem ok . . . . . ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

quoted 8 lines Well to me, a lot of experimental and ambient music falls under the

> Well to me, a lot of experimental and ambient music falls under the >heading of IDM. Warps AI series is what could be called "intelligent >listening music", and incase you didnt notice, the list is called >"intelligent dance music." This is how I see artists like Mu-Ziq and Aphex >Twin being relevant as opposed to artists like Moby or the Arpeggiators. >Im not willing to tell you, however, that your music isn't "intelligent" >if you think it is. But, music such as Gabber and Breakbeat is not >relevant and should be avoided. There are limits.

But that's not what I'm arguing.. I'm hardly advocating discourse on WWS Pussy, or any such gabber nonsense.. I am however asking that the discussion of IDM include less predictable artists.. There are a myriad of musicians out there making musik that's infinitely more complex and interesting that Autechre.. The only reasons that I can think of as to why they don't end up on this list is maybe 1) that the members are biased to the Warp stuff because it bears the official stamp on "intelligence" or 2) We have a highly focused and therefore naive group of consumers that just don't know what they're missing.. Both Richie and Richard have commented to me that they're pleased with the overwhelming amount of pure techno that's been coming out of Europe.. Rich came back from England with 150 new records, consisting of some of the most bugged out shit you'll ever hear.. However, one of his initial comments he made was that he heard AI2 and thought it was shit.. You'll be happy to know that Rephlex is planning around 40 new releases in the next year alone.. Maybe the myriad of RJ clones will keep you happy.. Not to be bitter or anything.

quoted 2 lines Thats your opinion and thats fine. But if you don't like what we talk

> Thats your opinion and thats fine. But if you don't like what we talk >about, then leave.

I haven't left, because I've met several very interesting and knowledgable people through this list including the irdial disc posse, who are making records like you ain't never heard..

quoted 2 lines I'm sure they will if it is relevant to IDM. If you want to hear people

> I'm sure they will if it is relevant to IDM. If you want to hear people >talk about Industrial Strength however, I suggest you go look somewhere else.

Do you really think that I would make the kind of music I do if I was a gabber freak? Come on, that's such a polarized comment.. The situation is not as black and white as it seems.. ** ******** ********** ********** ******** **Born.Under.A.Rhyming.Planet. +8 Records, Chicago, Il.

On 19 May 1994, Jamie M. Hodge wrote:

quoted 3 lines some of the most bugged out shit you'll ever hear.. However, one of his

> some of the most bugged out shit you'll ever hear.. However, one of his > initial comments he made was that he heard AI2 and thought it was > shit..

SO? What relevance does that have? Should we not be talking about it then?

quoted 3 lines You'll be happy to know that Rephlex is planning around 40 new releases

> You'll be happy to know that Rephlex is planning around 40 new releases > in the next year alone.. Maybe the myriad of RJ clones will keep you > happy.

I know. "RJ clones"?? I dont think so. do Mu-Ziq, Chriss Jeffs, Mike Dredd, and Drexciya etc. really sound the same to you? _______ (__,-, \ / /\ \ f l u i d <finger me for PGP key> /,_) \ \ flu'id (floo'-) (/ \\ brit@chopin.udel.edu :65 FD F9 9F F2 23 F8 CF: \) fluid@freezer.cns.udel.edu :80 9C 11 AA 9F 92 0D 27:

quoted 14 lines Well to me, a lot of experimental and ambient music falls under the

> > > Well to me, a lot of experimental and ambient music falls under the > >heading of IDM. Warps AI series is what could be called "intelligent > >listening music", and incase you didnt notice, the list is called > >"intelligent dance music." This is how I see artists like Mu-Ziq and Aphex > >Twin being relevant as opposed to artists like Moby or the Arpeggiators. > >Im not willing to tell you, however, that your music isn't "intelligent" > >if you think it is. But, music such as Gabber and Breakbeat is not > >relevant and should be avoided. There are limits. > > But that's not what I'm arguing.. I'm hardly advocating discourse on > WWS Pussy, or any such gabber nonsense.. I am however asking that the > discussion of IDM include less predictable artists.. There are a myriad of > musicians out there making musik that's infinitely more complex and interesting

I'm all ears....err, eyes...

quoted 5 lines that Autechre.. The only reasons that I can think of as to why they don't end

> that Autechre.. The only reasons that I can think of as to why they don't end > up on this list is maybe 1) that the members are biased to the Warp stuff > because it bears the official stamp on "intelligence" or 2) We have a highly > focused and therefore naive group of consumers that just don't know what > they're missing..

3) *YOU* don't share them with us. -djkc

quoted 2 lines I must have missed the paragraph in the intro message explaining that the

>I must have missed the paragraph in the intro message explaining that the >rest of us are here to keep you entertained.

I'm hardly asking for your servitude.. However, I get quickly depressed when I read hundreds of messages trying to sort out the FSOL resent releases.. Is america really so far behind? I think I'm heading for Holland when I graduate.. I'd be curious to know what percentage of the members of the list are musicians.. It seems that almost every kid I know east of the Atlantic who likes techno, writes techno.. However, during my time spent in NY, all I seem to meet are fried adolescents who aspire to be promoters when and if they grow up.. Please prove me wrong! ** ******** Anthems: E2 E4, Shh/Peaceful ********** Movies: THX1138, The Yellow Earth ********** Passtime: Drinkin' 40s, Begging for free records!! ******** Game Machine: Vectrex **B.orn U.nder a R.hyming P.lanet

On 19 May 1994, Jamie M. Hodge wrote: <Refraining from making any comments on (near) flame war . . . >

quoted 5 lines I'd be curious to know what percentage of the members of the list are

> I'd be curious to know what percentage of the members of the list are > musicians.. It seems that almost every kid I know east of the Atlantic who > likes techno, writes techno.. However, during my time spent in NY, all I seem > to meet are fried adolescents who aspire to be promoters when and if they > grow up.. Please prove me wrong!

Well, I make techno more than listen to it, actually. I agree that most techno fans here in the U.S. are much more interested in throwing parties than making tracks, but then again, I live in Nashville, TN, which can't help my perspective much. I'm one of two people I know in the scene here that is actively working on any techno that isn't commericalized-lame-I'm-A-Rave-Promoter-But-Also-Want-To-Be-A-Stud-On- Stage-Miming-To-Dat-Behind-A-Keyboard-At-My-Own-Parties BS. <WHEW!> :) I wonder if this all has something to do with how, in the U.K., Techno attracted people to Raves, whilst in the U.S. the opposite is true? Anyway, there are a few of us out here . . . It's just that, for the most part, we're at Xero pheet and haven't quite yet started to Rise . . . :) Orpheus23 - orpheus@knuth.mtsu.edu 1701 Beechwood Ave. Nashville, TN 37212-5501

. If that doesn't work, well,

quoted 3 lines you'll just have to start the "Records-That-Came-Out-Within-The-Past-Week-

>you'll just have to start the "Records-That-Came-Out-Within-The-Past-Week- >And-I'm-Ever-So-Much-More-Hip-Than-You-Because-I-Heard-About-Them-Before- >You-Did" list.

May I remind of the fact that I haven't been to a record store since spring break.. I'm quite behind the time, thank you.. Maybe it would be interesting to discuss techniques used by artists in making IDM.. for instance, I noticed the other day that if I wrote an arpeggiated chord into my sequence and used a High Pass filter on the sound, I was able to make it sound like I was very robotically soloing over the music by selective bringing the meat of the sound back in with a controller wheel.. There, that's interesting enough.. ** ******** Anthems: E2 E4, Shh/Peaceful ********** Movies: THX1138, The Yellow Earth ********** Passtime: Drinkin' 40s, Begging for free records!! ******** Game Machine: Vectrex **B.orn U.nder a R.hyming P.lanet

Lazlo (lazlo@xmission.com) writes:

quoted 12 lines Jamie Hodge writes:

> Jamie Hodge writes: > > I'm hardly advocating discourse on WWS Pussy, or any such gabber > > nonsense.. I am however asking that the discussion of IDM include less > > predictable artists. > > Once again -- unless I missed a memo, nobody here is being paid to keep > the list filled with Things Jamie Wants To Read About. If you want more > discussion of <X>, then start talking about <X>, and if anyone else is > interested they'll start talking about it too. If that doesn't work, well, > you'll just have to start the "Records-That-Came-Out-Within-The-Past-Week- > And-I'm-Ever-So-Much-More-Hip-Than-You-Because-I-Heard-About-Them-Before- > You-Did" list.

Lazlo, I think you *did* miss a memo. The discussion started when cspot@netcom.com wrote:

quoted 5 lines Here's a hint - quit talking about trance on this list. This isn't directed

> Here's a hint - quit talking about trance on this list. This isn't directed > specifically at you, Jason, so don't take it personally. I have no problem > with you discussing your favorite trance hits till the cows come home, just > don't do it here. Trance, as a whole, is not IDM. You may dispute this, but > you'll have to be very persuasive to convince me otherwise.

To which Jamie replied:

quoted 2 lines I really don't think that members

> I really don't think that members > of this group are in any position to get snotty about limits of discussion.

I don't think he was demanding that others talk about the kind of music he likes. I think he was asking others not to be closed-minded about what constitutes IDM. -Sho -- sho@physics.purdue.edu <<-- finger this account to find out what I'm having for lunch! <A HREF="http://physics.purdue.edu/~sho/homepage.html>Sho Kuwamoto</A>.

quoted 3 lines when I read hundreds of messages trying to sort out the FSOL resent releases..

> when I read hundreds of messages trying to sort out the FSOL resent releases.. > Is america really so far behind? I think I'm heading for Holland when I > graduate..

So FSOL is "behind"? Even new FSOL is behind? WoWEe, you are cool. I thought your big poop was Detroit. You blow to us constantly about how Detroit was God's own gift, and now you're telling us that we're "behind". Color me confused. At least those of us who know how to use a computer can use programs to sort out the garbage and people we don't like.

quoted 3 lines likes techno, writes techno.. However, during my time spent in NY, all I seem

> likes techno, writes techno.. However, during my time spent in NY, all I seem > to meet are fried adolescents who aspire to be promoters when and if they > grow up.. Please prove me wrong!

No, some of us have done the promoter gig and found it to be a worthless waste of energy. However, judging by your statement, I would assume that your new album is on the way. I can't wait to hear your (undoubtedly) magnificent work. If you don't like the list you subscribe to, work to make it better. If you don't like the scene you are in, work to make it better. Either that, or cop-out and leave the country.

On Fri, 20 May 1994, Pete Ashdown wrote:

quoted 5 lines So FSOL is "behind"? Even new FSOL is behind? WoWEe, you are cool.

> So FSOL is "behind"? Even new FSOL is behind? WoWEe, you are cool. > > I thought your big poop was Detroit. You blow to us constantly about how > Detroit was God's own gift, and now you're telling us that we're "behind". > Color me confused.

I'm not trying to put words in Jamie's mouth, but (correct me if I'm wrong) I think what's being referred to here is that it's frustrating to wade through post after post of trainspotting (what's that FSOL IP address again?) and the like when there's oceans of potentially {i} (thanks Mike Brown!) music that never even gets mentioned here.

quoted 2 lines At least those of us who know how to use a computer can use programs to sort

> At least those of us who know how to use a computer can use programs to sort > out the garbage and people we don't like.

Please, let's keep the net.muscle.flexing elsewhere.

quoted 1 line If you don't like the list you subscribe to, work to make it better.

> If you don't like the list you subscribe to, work to make it better.

I think we're trying, finally. ----------------------------------------------------------------- dave walker, detroit art services _ marmoset@msen.com freeke robot luv

On Fri, 20 May 1994, Dave Walker wrote:

quoted 6 lines I'm not trying to put words in Jamie's mouth, but (correct me if I'm

> I'm not trying to put words in Jamie's mouth, but (correct me if I'm > wrong) I think what's being referred to here is that it's frustrating > to wade through post after post of trainspotting (what's that FSOL > IP address again?) and the like when there's oceans of potentially > {i} (thanks Mike Brown!) music that never even gets mentioned > here.

Well, damnit, TELL US ABOUT IT. If it never gets mentioned here, whose fault is that? It's not mine. I don't have knowledge or access to this scene; I'm basically an outsider, and I don't even have a turntable. But I *love* most of the music that is discussed on this list, and if there is more out there, then I'm *never* going to find out about it if someone doesn't mention it on this list. I have bought CDs sound-unheard based solely on recommendations from this list, and about 90% of the time, they're hits. (I figure I can sell them if I don't like them, so I don't lose too much money on the deal, but at least I get to hear them as opposed to wondering what the heck they're like.) I'd never own any Reload if it wasn't for this list, for instance, and I feel as though I'd be missing out on a great couple of discs if that was the case. So if there's good stuff out there, tell us about it. Please. Then we can all know what's out there and have (pardon the pun) intelligent discussions about it here. But you can't expect us to gain knowledge of this stuff in a vacuum. I can afford to buy stuff that I've heard descriptions of here, but I can't afford to buy stuff with no outside knowledge at all. - Adam J Weitzman INDIVIDUAL, Inc. weitzman@individual.com

quoted 6 lines I'm not trying to put words in Jamie's mouth, but (correct me if I'm

> I'm not trying to put words in Jamie's mouth, but (correct me if I'm > wrong) I think what's being referred to here is that it's frustrating > to wade through post after post of trainspotting (what's that FSOL > IP address again?) and the like when there's oceans of potentially > {i} (thanks Mike Brown!) music that never even gets mentioned > here.

So what's the problem Dave? Why aren't you dumping these oceans upon us? I'm just a bit pissed off that I offered to create a FSOL list to resolve this and there was zero response. Now to add insult to injury, we've got Jamie "Just Call Me SuperSig" whining about the rest of the list not being up to his standards and you telling us that there is an entire ocean of music we've never heard about and aren't discussing. There is nothing that makes me angrier on the net than someone barging in and giving the statement, "Gee you guys don't know nuttin' I wish you would talk about something I'm interested in."

quoted 2 lines At least those of us who know how to use a computer can use programs to sort

> > At least those of us who know how to use a computer can use programs to sort > > out the garbage and people we don't like.

quoted 1 line Please, let's keep the net.muscle.flexing elsewhere.

> Please, let's keep the net.muscle.flexing elsewhere.

Right, just as long as people keep their net.content.bitching to themselves. Otherwise I have every right to call someone a fool for not using the right tools.

quoted 2 lines If you don't like the list you subscribe to, work to make it better.

> > If you don't like the list you subscribe to, work to make it better. > I think we're trying, finally.

I thought it was pretty damn good as it was.

On Fri, 20 May 1994, Pete Ashdown wrote:

quoted 8 lines I'm not trying to put words in Jamie's mouth, but (correct me if I'm

> > I'm not trying to put words in Jamie's mouth, but (correct me if I'm > > wrong) I think what's being referred to here is that it's frustrating > > to wade through post after post of trainspotting (what's that FSOL > > IP address again?) and the like when there's oceans of potentially > > {i} (thanks Mike Brown!) music that never even gets mentioned > > here. > > So what's the problem Dave? Why aren't you dumping these oceans upon us?

I have been posting, I think, quite a bit lately. But I've got blind spots -- I'm not a DJ, nobody sends me free records, I'm spending about 70 hours a week at work, etc. I post reviews when I can but honestly, lately, I barely get a chance to listen to my records, let alone write about them.

quoted 2 lines I'm just a bit pissed off that I offered to create a FSOL list to resolve

> I'm just a bit pissed off that I offered to create a FSOL list to resolve > this and there was zero response.

Maybe you should be asking _why_ there was no response. The typical response to every content conflict regarding net.musical resources is to subdivide further, which is why we've got 175 music newsgroups on the Net. My feeling is that ultimately this micro-fragmentation causes more headaches than it solves. For example, I _love_ Orbital, but I find that the Net discussion of the band has actually gotten less insightful since it was split off into another mailing list -- threads have been oriented more towards discographies, rarities and the like. I have no problem with trying to catalog a band's output, but it always seems like these groups/lists tend to lose something when the crossfertilization with other musical subjects goes away.

quoted 4 lines Now to add insult to injury, we've got Jamie "Just

> Now to add insult to injury, we've got Jamie "Just > Call Me SuperSig" whining about the rest of the list not being up to his > standards and you telling us that there is an entire ocean of music we've > never heard about and aren't discussing.

Step back, take a deep breath -- I have. I think this thread is getting _way_ more antagonistic than it needs to be.

quoted 3 lines There is nothing that makes me angrier on the net than someone barging in and

> There is nothing that makes me angrier on the net than someone barging in and > giving the statement, "Gee you guys don't know nuttin' I wish you would talk > about something I'm interested in."

I haven't seen that here, frankly. I think you're shooting at phantoms.

quoted 2 lines At least those of us who know how to use a computer can use programs

> > > At least those of us who know how to use a computer can use programs > > > to sort out the garbage and people we don't like.

quoted 5 lines Please, let's keep the net.muscle.flexing elsewhere.

> > Please, let's keep the net.muscle.flexing elsewhere. > > Right, just as long as people keep their net.content.bitching to themselves. > Otherwise I have every right to call someone a fool for not using the right > tools.

My problem was that the comment seemed pretty immaterial to the thread we've got going here. Mail filters weren't under discussion, but article content was.

quoted 5 lines If you don't like the list you subscribe to, work to make it better.

> > > > If you don't like the list you subscribe to, work to make it better. > > I think we're trying, finally. > > I thought it was pretty damn good as it was.

I see nothing wrong with going from good to great. Do you? | Dave Walker, Detroit Art Services (DAS) | | | | marmoset@msen.com "Clear." |

(such as "xyzzy") Isn't that the magic word from "adventure", the old text-based game? ** ******** Anthems: E2 E4, Shh/Peaceful ********** Movies: THX1138, The Yellow Earth ********** Passtime: Drinkin' 40s, Begging for free records!! ******** Game Machine: Vectrex **B.orn U.nder a R.hyming P.lanet

quoted 1 line (such as "xyzzy")

> (such as "xyzzy")

It is indeed. Actually, I've never played it to any great extent.... Cosmic