IDM Mailing Archive

Greetings! Wouldn't it be easier if there was a messageboard that everyone could read and post at will instead of filling all of our inbox's with garbage? I know i'm not alone in the fact, that i have to just delete most of mail right off.. Especially with the EGAY spammers.. If I'm interested in your stuff, i will do a search for it. I know alot of us use message boards daily. Why wouldn't this work? I see it now, the "IDM Board" i'm thiniking something like this only IDM minded.. and some better colors... http://www.nubreaks.com/forum/ cheers --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more

quoted 5 lines I know alot of us use message boards daily. Why wouldn't this work? I see it

> I know alot of us use message boards daily. Why wouldn't this work? I see it > now, the "IDM Board" i'm thiniking something like this only IDM minded.. and > some better colors... > > http://www.nubreaks.com/forum/

this is a great fucking idea. everybody unsub, and go use a message board! thanks Mr. Vorhees for your groundbreaking idea! see you on the message boards. :) -kiya iamacopierltd. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 01:18 AM, Jason Vorhees wrote:

quoted 3 lines I know alot of us use message boards daily. Why wouldn't this work? I

> I know alot of us use message boards daily. Why wouldn't this work? I > see it now, the "IDM Board" i'm thiniking something like this only IDM > minded.. and some better colors...

i'll switch to a message board if its able to filter posts from certain people and of certain topics, plus each user should be able to delete an entire thread from their view with the click of one button. it should also go out to all other message boards that each user goes to, pull down those posts, and present each of them in an easy to read, easy to parse, easy to sort format and present them on a per-user basis. oh, and it should accept and send all posts via email as well, because message boards suck. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Jason Vorhees wrote:

quoted 1 line Wouldn't it be easier if there was a messageboard

> Wouldn't it be easier if there was a messageboard

If you think the posts are getting moronic now, you should see what happens when any idiot with a web browser can read and post. I was running some general message boards on Hyperreal for a while, and they utterly sucked. For every decent thread, there were fifty off-topic posts from trolls, bigots, spammers, and people who just clearly have not one single clue about what they are talking about. Yes, it would be "easier" but there is a huge price you pay for that convenience: even with user registration, the overall quality and the signal-to-noise ratio go WAY down. Using an old-fashioned mailing list that enforces plain text content raises the bar sufficiently to keep out most, but obviously not all, of the riff-raff. It's a bit like running a telnet-based chat server (these days) rather than full-blown IRC. Mike -- Denver, Colorado, USA http://hyperreal.org/~mike/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Sat, Feb 22, 2003 at 01:45:25PM -0800, Mike Brown wrote:

quoted 16 lines Jason Vorhees wrote:

> Jason Vorhees wrote: > > Wouldn't it be easier if there was a messageboard > > If you think the posts are getting moronic now, you should see what happens > when any idiot with a web browser can read and post. I was running some > general message boards on Hyperreal for a while, and they utterly sucked. For > every decent thread, there were fifty off-topic posts from trolls, bigots, > spammers, and people who just clearly have not one single clue about what they > are talking about. > > Yes, it would be "easier" but there is a huge price you pay for that > convenience: even with user registration, the overall quality and the > signal-to-noise ratio go WAY down. Using an old-fashioned mailing list that > enforces plain text content raises the bar sufficiently to keep out most, but > obviously not all, of the riff-raff. It's a bit like running a telnet-based > chat server (these days) rather than full-blown IRC.

If you want to see how bad a messageboard can get then look no further than www.watmm.com/forum Neil -- Are we going to the same place If so can I come? --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 13 lines If you think the posts are getting moronic now, you should see what happens

> If you think the posts are getting moronic now, you should see what happens > when any idiot with a web browser can read and post. I was running some > general message boards on Hyperreal for a while, and they utterly sucked. For > every decent thread, there were fifty off-topic posts from trolls, bigots, > spammers, and people who just clearly have not one single clue about what they > are talking about. > > Yes, it would be "easier" but there is a huge price you pay for that > convenience: even with user registration, the overall quality and the > signal-to-noise ratio go WAY down. Using an old-fashioned mailing list that > enforces plain text content raises the bar sufficiently to keep out most, but > obviously not all, of the riff-raff. It's a bit like running a telnet-based > chat server (these days) rather than full-blown IRC.

This is why the Warp forum got taken down. Introducing registration to it didn't solve the problems and the comments from posters were becoming offensive to the label staff. Some people just want to take and don't realise what they are doing to other people. This could be perceived as fascism on behalf of the label, or bigotry from the posters. Which is worse. Warp decided they didn't want the people visiting the site to think that their music was associated with a limited, vocal, few on the message list. Rather sad don't you think? ... Have some care and attention. Big up the Ninja crew for keeping their forum going. I know they've had shit directed at their staff before and contemplated > /dev/null for the whole lot. I'm reading this thread alongside reading Cory Doctrow's "down and out in the magic kingdom" [ http://www.craphound.com/down/ ] and can't help wondering how Whuffle would affect this all ... Goes with my idea of a distributed collaborative A&R system to replace record labels too ... --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

At 03:45 PM 2/22/2003, Mike Brown wrote:

quoted 10 lines Jason Vorhees wrote:

>Jason Vorhees wrote: > > Wouldn't it be easier if there was a messageboard > >If you think the posts are getting moronic now, you should see what happens >when any idiot with a web browser can read and post. I was running some >general message boards on Hyperreal for a while, and they utterly sucked. For >every decent thread, there were fifty off-topic posts from trolls, bigots, >spammers, and people who just clearly have not one single clue about what >they >are talking about.

Additionally, the noise part of "signal to noise" has historically been a part of IDM-l (as much as it is of IDM) for ages. It's like philosophical trends...the pendulum swings this way and that. Sure it can be annoying and insipid. Everybody gets close to and some do unsub. There are moderated lists (Lance's idm-m via yahoogroups is a great alternative) for those who get tired of the noise factor. The grain of salt you take with this list *is* the possible advent of irrelevant ballyhoo. People mark themselves; if anybody gets too noisy, the killfiles go up (I suspect most of us have filters which have for their targets IDM-l posters) and the public censure comes down. The list has a certain charm about it and an atmosphere which, to some extent, lends itself to noise and sarcasm. Not to champion the idiotic, but just to say that an email list without heavy moderation pays a certain price for its "freedom". That's the way it be sometimes. jeff --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

thanx for the comments everyone. i have now seen the light.. i love this community and have mad respect for everyone and the history. I guess i just need to learn how to use my e-mail features better, because i just seem to be deleting everything, and by the time i sift through everything, i'm to tired to read the stuff, i'm interested in. on a message board, 50 - 100 posts on a topic would be in one thread that one can choose to view or not to view instead of having 100 e-mails to delete.. i only suggested some type of messageboard because i used to use a few of them everyday, but never found one for all aspects of IDM , the record label boards are awesome too, just doesn't seem to capture all that idm has to offer.... thanx for the replies.. ...:: jason runs to corner to listen to crunch ::... --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more

From: "Jason Vorhees"

quoted 3 lines Greetings!

> Greetings! > > Wouldn't it be easier if there was a messageboard that everyone could read and post at will

instead of filling all of our inbox's with garbage? I know i'm not alone in the fact, that i have to just delete most of mail right off.. Especially with the EGAY spammers.. EGAY? hmmmm.... Anyway, start a newsgroup, if ya feel like it: newsgroups are easier to access and to use than are most message boards. =seek= --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Reguarding a message board - i think theres too much history wrapped up in the IDM list to scrap it and go to a message board. There are a few related message boards that i read....planet-mu.com mostly. watmm.com occasionally. I've heard the ninjatune board is good. So theres not for a lack of boards. --- WRECKED diy electronics http://rhinoplex.org/wrecked --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I for one am not entirely for the idea of message boards. I belong to a couple and visit them very rarely, so therefore I don't follow them much. I just set my email handler to filter the crap that we get, and would prefer a warning system, or alternatively a specific day for ebay nonsense (99.9% of which I ignore - so why bother?) but I figure that keeping this list going in its current format and finding solutions rather than changing the whole thing. Just my tuppence worth Rich --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Some people like mailing lists. That's why we have IDM, IDM-Moderated and countless others. Some people like message boards. That's why we have the ones at Planet Mu, Neo Ouija, Warp and countless others. Some people like both, and are free to participate in both types of forums as they see fit. The idea of shutting down one in favour of the other is fucking stupid, especially when the one which is being suggested for shut-down is quite likely the oldest continuously existing online discussion forum for this type of music. If the signal-to-noise ratio on the list isn't working out well for someone, they should either unsubscribe or get some email software with a proper filtering utility and spend 15 minutes learning how to use it. Greg :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Greg Clow ::: greg@stainedproductions.com ::::::::: concert & event promotions ::: http://www.stainedproductions.com :::::: electronic music radio & reviews ::: http://www.feedbackmonitor.com ::: electronic/experimental record label ::: http://www.pieheadrecords.com ::::::::: 158 Close Ave. 2nd Floor ::: Toronto, Ontario M6K 2V5 ::: Canada --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 9 lines Some people like mailing lists. That's why we have IDM, IDM-Moderated and

> > Some people like mailing lists. That's why we have IDM, IDM-Moderated and > countless others. > > Some people like message boards. That's why we have the ones at Planet Mu, > Neo Ouija, Warp and countless others. > > Some people like both, and are free to participate in both types of forums > as they see fit.

Spoken like a true Information Designer. The ideal feed would be spread across all three of course, so the archive would also allow people to post to it, and the posts would appears on the mailing list and usenet. Then think how much noise we would have on the list! You'd then have to have your agent filter it all for you and select what it thought was suitable for you. Of course then would you be deciding your tastes or would your agent? What if the agent had first 'learnt' from humans? Greg has touched on the point of human perception here, which we apply to music all the time on this list [I like old Autechre, well I like new Autechre being the most common, and neither having the right answer] [And, here is my tangent, before someone accuses me of IDM list noise ... ] Is this the same argument between computer generative music and human composed music as valid art forms? Because something has not had a human hand directly at play in it does it make it less creative, less intelligent? I suppose this is also the laptop performances thread - "But they just press a button and it does it all for them" vs "They are subtly altering the nuances of what you hear but your individual perception doesn't allow you to take that in and instead you look for some physical sign of that involvement". I'm just kind of rambling, but what are your thoughts on computer generated music [as opposed to music generated by humans controlling computers] I know a few people on this list work with software like Max, and wonder if they perceive creating generative music programs within it as the act of composition, just composition on a more abstracted level than most listeners are used to perceiving? In other news, 26 Mixes for Cash [Aphex Twin] is here, but I'm finding it quite dull. It's also quite beautiful, but I keep on finding myself ignoring it. The Chocolate Coins that warp are doing as Promo Items are quite funny. I'll try and listen to it again. "Sickle Cell Hysteria" on the new Beans album is wicked. on 22/2/03 9:08 pm the person going by the name Greg Clow at greg@stainedproductions.com spake :

quoted 26 lines The idea of shutting down one in favour of the other is fucking stupid,

> The idea of shutting down one in favour of the other is fucking stupid, > especially when the one which is being suggested for shut-down is quite > likely the oldest continuously existing online discussion forum for this > type of music. > > If the signal-to-noise ratio on the list isn't working out well for > someone, they should either unsubscribe or get some email software with a > proper filtering utility and spend 15 minutes learning how to use it. > > > Greg > > > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Greg Clow ::: greg@stainedproductions.com > ::::::::: concert & event promotions ::: http://www.stainedproductions.com > :::::: electronic music radio & reviews ::: http://www.feedbackmonitor.com > ::: electronic/experimental record label ::: http://www.pieheadrecords.com > ::::::::: 158 Close Ave. 2nd Floor ::: Toronto, Ontario M6K 2V5 ::: Canada > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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From: <killog123@juno.com>

quoted 5 lines message boards are a serious hassle imo,

> message boards are a serious hassle imo, > i don't like them or use them really at all. > i don't have a problem reading the subject > line and deleting emails at all. > i don't understand what all the fuss it about.

You're full of shit: you complain about the content of posts at least as much as any other moaner. =seek= --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 1 line If you want to see how bad a messageboard can get then look no further

> If you want to see how bad a messageboard can get then look no further

than

quoted 1 line www.watmm.com/forum

> www.watmm.com/forum

This list is crying out for huge raver banner signatures. Let's do this now. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

if the ebay posts bother you ,filter them out. yes,i post an occasional post regarding auctions i have going,but i always include ebay in the subject line of the post. so do several of the other people who post their own auction notices. maybe,we should just follow a general rule when posting:: if it is a playlist,use "playlist ' in the subject, "for trade" in the trade posts or "ebay' in the auction ones. then if this shit bothers you,set your filters accordingly. i for one ,enjoy reading playlists,trade and what not a helluva lot more than some of the other subjects that come up,and would never want to censor other peoples posts. i'm on digest,so if this has already been stated,sorry. william --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

all right? look, just say you all realize that this talk of censorship and filtering is getting out of hand?!! the atmosphere here is ludicrous, you know, but without the humour. It seems some of you oik gits would prefer (if i may repeat myself) the predictable, fenced-in mindscape of a dual 2 ghz robotic style personality. Is your life such harsh chaos that the only solace from any of that intrigue or beauty which entwines itself within free speech/random happenstance is a highly censored, controlled and watered down bologna stew of en vogue political correctness? Sadly, though not unusual you know, this entire list as a concept and execution is often practically onomatopoeic. The simpering complaints and drudgery evinced here could very well rhyme with the ruggedly boring music that is most idm, but, what's perhaps most telling is the active denial that some of you have for the expression amongst friends of ideas and interests that may not be totally on topic or politically correct. Cause see, reading and replying to one another day in/out breeds familiarity and this in turns creates permeable membranes, a good deal of in&out and eventually satisfaction achieved via the act of these exchanges....hmmm, im seeing all types of weird things. maybe you robots just need a little oil and a good plug to stick your prong into? or maybe youre just young and your parents are doing what parents do best and fucking you up life..... anyway, i donno, my advice is to go listen to the vocals on 'dial' from 'gantz graf' with good headphones, then go watch Kubrick's Paths of Glory for a primer on our great world leaders and finally do some field research on dmt. there's more to your reality than you may think. --- "[william]" <3vs1@dccnet.com> wrote:

quoted 30 lines if the ebay posts bother you ,filter them out. yes,i

> if the ebay posts bother you ,filter them out. yes,i > post an occasional post > regarding auctions i have going,but i always include > ebay in the subject > line of the post. > > so do several of the other people who post their own > auction notices. > > maybe,we should just follow a general rule when > posting:: if it is a > playlist,use "playlist ' in the subject, "for trade" > in the trade posts or > "ebay' in the auction ones. then if this shit > bothers you,set your filters > accordingly. > > i for one ,enjoy reading playlists,trade and what > not a helluva lot more > than some of the other subjects that come up,and > would never want to censor > other peoples posts. > > i'm on digest,so if this has already been > stated,sorry. > > william > > >

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quoted 5 lines To unsubscribe, e-mail:

> To unsubscribe, e-mail: > idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: > idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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i'm surprised no one has mentioned that there is indeed a digested format for this mail list. > idm-digest-subscribe@hyperreal.org < --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 1 line I know alot of us use message boards daily. Why wouldn't this work? I see

> I know alot of us use message boards daily. Why wouldn't this work? I see

it

quoted 1 line now, the "IDM Board" i'm thiniking something like this only IDM minded..

> now, the "IDM Board" i'm thiniking something like this only IDM minded..

and

quoted 3 lines some better colors...

> some better colors... > > http://www.nubreaks.com/forum/

This is exactly why we set up noiseloop.com. People mainly submit gig postings and release info but we'd welcome more discussion there. It's not a typical bulletin board format - more kuro5hin/slashdot style but we prefer it and it's closer to the dynamic of an email list. Right now it has an editor-moderated submit queue and you don't need to register to submit or comment. We're thinking of changing this to user moderation (a la kuro5hin) and we're also looking into a special section for fs/ebay lists. We'd be happy to hear any suggestions from the list of course. -- ed http://www.noiseloop.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 2 lines I've nothing at all against mp3 or other formats. I think they're

> I've nothing at all against mp3 or other formats. I think they're > essential - but they can co-exist happily with CDs/vinyl. I guess I'm

just

quoted 4 lines one of those people who likes a CD or record to be part of a complete

> one of those people who likes a CD or record to be part of a complete > package, where the artwork etc is an integral part of the release. The > records that have had the most influence of what I do (stuff on 4AD, > Factory, Warp) all have or had this.

Yes. Exactly.

quoted 3 lines MAKE MINE MUSIC

> MAKE MINE MUSIC > portal*yellow6*schengen*epic 45*innerise*july skies*avrocar > www.makeminemusic.co.uk

I have an avrocar 7" - good stuff! --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org